 Good morning. Welcome to the regular monthly meeting of the Longmont Housing Authority for Tuesday, September 15th. We will start today with the call to order, which I guess that was just the call to order, and now turn it over to Olivia if you wouldn't mind doing a roll call for us. Good morning. I am seeing Chairman Cameron Grant, Vice Chairman Tim Waters, Commissioners Harold Dominguez, Jane Christopher, Tom DeBee, Lauren Kelly, Arlene Zortman. We also have Karen Roney, Kathy Fedler, and Polly Christensen. Thank you, and this is a public meeting, so if there is anyone watching the livestream that would like to be heard during the public invited to be heard portion of the meeting, which is item number five, you'll need to watch that livestream on the City of Longmont YouTube channel for instructions about how to call in and provide public comment at the appropriate times. We'll give instructions during the meeting, and they'll also be displayed on the screen when it's time to call in to provide your comments. Just as a reminder, your comments are limited to three minutes per person, so each speaker will be asked at the beginning to state their name and address for the record before proceeding with their comments, and then we'll let you know when you hit your three-minute limit. Also, pretty important, please remember to mute the livestream when you're called on to speak, and that'll come up later in the agenda. We'll let you know when that's happening. We're now moving on to item number two, agenda revisions and submission of documents. Are there any changes we have to the agenda or any additional documents? Seeing nobody wave their hands, we'll move on to approval of the agenda. I'd entertain a motion to approve today's agenda. The other motion by Tim and a wave by Paulie, and by actually wave by Jean. We'll go with that. Any comments? Paulie, did you want to comment? You're still on mute, I believe. Would there be a legatation at time, you know, that word? Just fix that. Could you say that again, Paulie? You were on mute for the very first part of that. Oh, I'm sorry. Just correct the spelling on item 6b of the real-bit-taste-ton. Yeah, just correct the word. Yeah, I'll say when I started on this board, there were a lot of acronyms and words that I had to learn, but that's a new one to me. So we'll correct that. Thank you. All right, we've got a motion to second. All in favor of the approving the agenda. Any opposed? Seeing none, we will move on to approval of the minutes. So since our last regular board meeting, we've had two meetings, we had a special joint meeting with the Longman Housing Development Corporation on August 13th, and then we had our regular meeting on August 18th. We actually had a special meeting after that that I think will approve those minutes next time. So you should all have received those draft minutes in your packet. I'd entertain a motion to approve both of those minutes. So moved. Moved by Tom. Second. Second by Lauren. All in favor, wave your hand. Unanimously approved. So we will move on. So now we're at item five, which is public invited to be heard. So if there's anyone from the public watching, what you need to do is dial 1-833-548-0276. That's a toll free number. So don't worry about the long distance. When you're prompted, enter the meeting ID, which is 847-5548-9100. And those instructions should also be on your screen, including that phone number. When we're ready to hear public comment, we'll call on you to speak based upon the last three digits of your phone number. Again, each speaker must state their name and address for the record, and they'll be allowed three minutes to speak. And again, most importantly, remember to mute the live stream when you're called on to speak. So what we need to do now, because there is a delay between the Zoom version of our chat, our conference, and the live stream, we're going to have a five minute break, and then we'll come back. So it's 8.06 now. So we'll come back at 8.11 to see if we have anyone queued up to call. Can I remember before we break? Yes, sir. The number you read is different than the number on the screen. Oh, that's a good point. And Chair, the number on the screen is the toll-free number. The number you read is not. All right. So let's go back. And so the number on your screen, if you're listening and not on the screen is 1-888-788-0099. My understanding is both of those numbers will work. And in either case, when you get in, you have to enter the meeting ID 847-5548-9100. It will take a five minute break now. We will be back at 8.11 to see if we have anyone queued up. Welcome back. It's 8.11. Can someone who's monitoring the waiting room let me know if there is anyone who is queued up to speak? Yes, Chair. We have one caller in our queue. And when everyone's back on camera, I will begin. Great. All right. We have one caller. Your phone number ends in 1-887. I'm going to ask you to unmute. There you are. Can you please stage an address for the record? And you have three minutes. Yes, my name is Michelle Newman. And my address is 320 Homestead Parkway, Spring Creek Apartments, Longmont, Colorado 80504. I'm in Unit 119. And some of you have heard from me in the past. Many have not. I have been with violence last year with a restraining order. I won't go into that right now. My main concerns are the integrated partnership and a lot of the comments that have been made since the first of the year by Tim Waters and about getting a professional mediator to Spring Creek to handle the situation. Even upon Gillian Baldwin's departure, things have changed minimally. Residents still feel like they're a prisoner of their apartments. And now Gillian has come back to haunt us again because all residents, especially the original residents who came into apartments in 2016 signed an eight-page lease. We are now being forced by Tori Sanders to, when we renew, recertify and renew our leases this year to sign a 27-page lease that is on legal paper, small type where the residents are being called in after their recertification is approved to meet lease sign. No discussion. This lease is a joke. I mean, it is not even legally written. It does not pertain to the type of housing we have. It is like a generic global lease. And it puts all the demands on the resident. The agent or LHA has no responsibility or accountability in this lease. And there's no recourse for residents if LHA actually or the agent does not abide by their obligations. And this needs to be rewritten and discussed. I don't know how many board members have seen this new lease that we are being instructed to sign. And it's very concerning. And I'm to the point that I want to go month to month when I renew. But then the problem is that they're going to probably check up my rent because I'm month to month. And with that in tune, the last moment at the August meeting, you mentioned that you have 80 housing choice vouchers available to distribute to the community. I had submitted a 2018 housing choice voucher lottery entry form. And I want to know what the likelihood is that I might be a candidate to receive one of those 80 housing choice vouchers, especially if I go month to month and do not sign this new ridiculous lease that's being forced on the residents. Is that my three minutes? I think we can hear you just fine. Thank you for your comments. I think as you know, you've presented before spoken before this is the opportunity for you to give us information and it's not there's not a lot of back and forth here. But I would suggest your question that you call the the main line and and discuss that with someone. Okay, all right. Thank you. Thank you very much. And was that our only caller today? Yes, chair. That was it. Okay, thank you. So we'll move on to item number six, a, which is review and approval of a final draft letter to the city of Longmont regarding the value of city services to the LHA. We circulated a revised draft based upon some comments that we had at our special meeting a week ago. Hopefully you've all had a chance to review that and it's included in the packet. So this will be the final draft unless anyone wants to discuss it and suggest some revisions. Polly. I would suggest just one change. I think this is a good letter. I really do. I think you did a good job. Summing up everything that was discussed. The word unpalatable, which I know Jean suggested and I have a great deal of respect for Jean. But I would suggest changing it to a different word like unaffordable. Unpalatable implies that they kind of have a choice and they don't really and no rent increases ever palatable. But when I would just suggest a different word like unaffordable or steep or something like that. That's all. Okay. So I think to follow Robert's rules to get further into discussion or no discussion, we ought to have a motion to approve or a motion to approve with Polly's suggested change. Anyone wants to go that direction? I would motion to approve the letter with Polly's change. I agree with her assessment of that word. Okay. We have a motion from Lauren and Jean. Second from Marlene. Is there any discussion? No discussion. All in favor, raise your hand. All opposed, do the same. No one opposed. We have motion carries. So we will finalize that letter and get that off to the city immediately for inclusion in tonight's discussion. Real quick. Cameron, I couldn't get mine off mute. I needed to recuse myself from that vote. That's what I was just about to say. Do you really noted? Let's move on to item 6B resolution 2020-13, which is a resolution approving the closing of various sources of funding for the redevelopment of, here we go, redevelopment and rehabilitation of Aston Meadow's apartment. That resolution was circulated, I think separately from the agenda, you should all have that. I'd entertain a motion to approve that. Marlene moves to approve. Ken, I was wondering if I could ask a couple of questions. Absolutely. I think, yeah, go ahead. Discussion would usually wait until we have a motion and a second. Okay, I'll wait. I'll wait. I'll move approval of resolution 2020-13. Thank you. We have a motion and I didn't catch you that second one was second second from Jean. All right, now let's turn to discussion. Arlene, would you like to ask your questions? Well, because I fairly knew it, this and some of this legal lease is a little intimidating to me. I'm wondering if this is the project for the rehabilitation of Aston Meadow's apartments. Is that correct? Yes, it is. Okay, so I understand the bond for $8 million, and then all of the other amounts of money that are in here total up to a little bit over $6.6 million. Is that in addition to or is that to go against that bond? So in other words, are we, is it a $15 million funding we're doing here or what exactly is it? It's about it's about half of that. So yeah, so some of those sources are going against the bond, and some are not. So it's about a seven, eight million dollar project altogether, because there's acquisition, transferring the property from one entity to the other, considered to be acquisition or sale. So the value of the property and the land and then about a five just under $5 million renovation included with that. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for that clarification, because in some of our communication, we refer to the project as a $5 million rehab project. It's helpful to understand that. Any other comments or questions? Are seeing none? All in favor, please raise your hand. Any opposed? And should I note, Harold, that you recused yourself from that one as well? Or did you just not wait, raise your hand? Oh, I'm raising my hand for it. I'm having computer issues right now. Okay. So we unanimously approved. Thank you. Let's move on now to item number seven, executive board member report. Sorry, it is, I'm having a world of hurt right now with my computer. Do you want to send it to me? The No, I'm not. I don't have a presentation. It's just Okay, it's locking up on me. So it's doing some wonky stuff. A couple of things that I wanted to update you all on in terms of the the fire that we had at the lodge. Everything seems to be coming back together. As of last Friday, the team that 24 seven, they came in for the rehab. They move units 101 and 102. They were to the last ones that were in play. They were allowed to move back in. And they cleared the hallway. They still I think they've moved the filter, but they still had a HEPA scrub hair scrubber. The one unit that is going to need to be open for a longer period of time is unit 201 in terms of where they had the actual fire. And they have to move all of their contents out and they they have to get those contents cleaned. And so that we can go in and do the smoke mitigation that you need to do in that unit. But you know, within about a week, everything, you know, we had to move out people. The following believe it was the following Monday, we were able to move some back in. And then Tuesday, we moved the bulk in. And then those last two units were the ones that were I think immediately below it where the water came in and it needed to have some additional drawing time. So the team did, you know, in terms of the amount of water that was in that facility. And I guess our experience the last time this happened in terms of getting the remediation team in they did a really good job of getting in there quickly and getting the drying equipment into the walls so that we could avoid any other potential significant issues related to water damage. Karen Kathy, did I miss anything on that one? I don't think so. Okay. The other thing that I wanted to update you all on. So obviously, we have a number of vacant positions. We have been looking at the budget. And what we can do and what we really wanted to focus on was putting in hiring positions where the rubber meets the road in terms of actually working within the various neighborhoods. So we're currently in the hiring process for two community managers and a maintenance tech. As we indicated, we did get the proposals for the consultants and we're looking at the financials associated with that. Specifically related to the finance, the housing choice vouchers and the Yardee proposals. You know, the one thing I can say on the housing choice voucher piece, the number was significant in terms of when we talked about bringing someone in to give you a sense of what they were talking about. It was approximately, I think on the high end, it was $30,000 a month for someone to come in and work on the housing choice vouchers. And I think the low end of that was around 20,000. Kathy Karen in terms of the proposals. So the good news is for us, we think in terms of HCV and, you know, the staff that's there and the work that we've been doing, we have a better handle on it. So we may be able to look at just utilizing an hourly rate for training. On the Yardee side, that's going to be pretty important to us. Because as we look at the conversion into the financial system, what we've realized is that even though we've implemented Yardee, there's still a reliance on the old HMS system in terms of getting data. So part of the Yardee consultant will be in moving data over completely from the HMS system to the Yardee system so we can have everything in one place. I'm not sure exactly why it was converted that way, but we need to get a full conversion over. In terms of the IT process, we've been working with our ETS group. Our goal is to have a cutover on October 18th, where we can bring the housing authority over into the city's ETS side so we can have all the appropriate firewalls and security in place. You know, right now, that's also going to be dependent on purchasing equipment. Most of the equipment is actually coming in. We did find out recently that a couple of pieces to the primary infrastructure, backbone infrastructure that you need for this is potentially going to be delayed. So that may delay the cutover time, but really what we're dealing with at this point is as a product of COVID, especially in the technology world, sometimes it just takes a lot of time to get equipment because they got behind it manufacturing. If you have young kids or you have young grandchildren, the best example I will give you is that if you're looking for a Nintendo Switch, those things have been sold out forever because you can't. They just stopped making it during COVID. So our ETS folks are really going to work through that and really try to push for that October 18th cutover. Some things that we saw on the ETS side, and this is as much to update Kathy and Karen, I had to add some funds because the UPS that they had in place at the facilities wasn't adequate for the time you need to have backup for the phone lines. And so we're going to add a more robust backup that will keep power on to the technology. The funding for that I'm going to talk to city council tonight. But as we looked at the CARES funding that we have, we can utilize that based on our conversations with Dola. And it's really all based on the impact of COVID and positioning the organization so they can work remotely in this type of world. But you all may know or may not know, they never were able to work remotely, even when we really should have just because of the system that was in place. And that started from computers to just the backbone infrastructure. So about now $92,000 is going to be what I'm going to go over with council in terms of what it takes to get the LHA system in order in shape. So they it works, but be more importantly, they can work remotely. And at the end of the day, the big impact on that's going to really be if if we had a community manager that couldn't come into the facility, they could still work remotely and interact with people. They can't do that now. So the good news is CARES funding comes into play. And it lets us deal with a significant issue that I think will really strengthen the organization that includes new computers, monitors for everyone so they can actually have 2020 technology to use. The other thing that that we're also working on, and just to let you know, based on the public invited to be heard comments, I'm just, you know, we were going to try to get some more information and then communicate with the board. But since it came up, we were made aware of the lease issue last week. We have been, they, Kathy, Karen and Michelle have been looking into this this item. They've been briefing me on this issue, what it looks like. And we weren't aware that this lease was in play. But when we found out, it looks like to the caller's point, Jillian was working with an outside another firm that specializes in leases. And they were drafting this lease. And so as we've been looking through this, I will let Karen jump in at this point on the report to kind of tell you where we are today and what we're seeing. Erin, do you want to jump in? Thanks, Harold. Yeah, so so so we are, we are continuing to meet. So the, so this new lease was used for the recertification of the Spring Creek residents. And, you know, what we understand is that a new lease does not have to be signed with recertifications. So, so we're going to be looking about at the option of pulling back that that particular lease for the folks who were recertified at Spring Creek. And we're taking another look at that at that lease. You know, Michelle, who is working directly with the community managers, as Harold mentioned, indicated that the lease is quite long. It's eight point fonts. It is. It's pretty, it's pretty different, I would say, from the lease that the residents have been used to. So, so I think maybe in the attempt to strengthen some things that need to be strengthened the lease. We haven't seen it yet, but I would say maybe maybe we went a little overboard. So we're we're really, we're taking another look at that and trying to come up with a lease. And I think the interest was coming up with a standardized lease for all of the properties. And so we're going to take another stab at that. But we are certainly aware that this lease document is is rather onerous. And, you know, we want to make sure that the the new lease has what it needs to have in that without being too onerous. So we're going to go go back on that one and and figure that out. Carol. Yep. Just for clarification, that lease isn't just for Spring Creek. It's for all the properties. And I have got I have received very similar complaints to the one we heard in public comment about that lease. So I'm glad to know you're working on it. Personally, I would like to see a copy of it because it seems way out of line, way out of line. Yeah, so we will get that to the board. Like I said, I think this hit us. Last Thursday or Friday, Karen? It was Friday. It was Friday that this this hit us. And so this is very similar to what we've talked about before it seems like as we're moving along and trying to learn as much as we can, there's still things we don't know. You know, I would put a question forward to the board in that I don't know what discussions you all had with this work because we know it goes back a while. And I'm seeing I'm seeing the answer. I think that there wasn't conversations on that. And so just so you all know, these are things that that are going to probably pop continue to pop and hit us as we're moving through this, but definitely understand what people are communicating to us and their concerns and just let folks know that we're looking at it. We're going to need a little bit of time as we assess this. You know, what's really going on what the lease needs to look like. Obviously, you've heard from Karen. I know Karen and Michelle and the group met yesterday afternoon. We're looking at it and hopefully within the near future, we'll have an answer in terms of what we can do, but we're going to move as quickly as we can on that one. Yeah, I can add to that. So Jean is correct. So we are looking at a standard lease for all properties. And so we started to roll this out for for the for the properties where leases do need to be updated. So so anyhow, and I think the other challenge that we as staff are continuing to work on is that we have the good news as there's a lot of us that are involved in these efforts. The challenging is that sometimes we step over ourselves. So we are, you know, certainly working on our own internal coordination issues to help make sure that communications are clear. And and the direction is is coordinated. So so that's good for us to continue to work on too. Yeah, and I think the piece on that that Karen and I actually talked about yesterday is before we anything's done on a significant step, any significant change, they need to make sure that they're communicating with me, Karen and Kathy so that so that we're on top of it versus just, you know, moving forward because sometimes things that may seem relatively benign are not. And we then end up spending a lot of time going around in a circle. So so we're also adjusting some operational components on this so that we're aware of these in the future. And Jean, yeah, thanks because it actually was Kathy. Oh, I just wanted to add just so that we're very clear, even if we at research go back and just use the existing lease for right now for recertifications, there's likely to be addendums that will need to be signed because there are things missing from the current lease, like the Violence Against Women's Act addendum and crime free multi housing addendum. So there will still be likely be paperwork that might need to be signed and addendums, but they should be able to be fully explained. And only that paperwork then signed at recertifications until we get to a more comprehensive lease. Okay. And can I comment on that? Because Kathy, that's the usual process is for the VAWA and and a couple of others that are signed every year. But the the recertification, the the the lease was a one page, simply referring to the original lease. So I'm assuming this 27 pager came out because they decided to change the lease. But for our purposes, I think one page will do it with the right dates on it. And the addenda that you mentioned, so that would get us over the bridge until we get this other lease straightened out. Yeah, yeah, I think also to Kathy's point, want to be clear, I think what we know is the current lease doesn't meet what we need and what we're supposed to have. So the lease will have to be changed. I think the question that we're going to look at, does it have to be converted into a 27 page lease? Or is there a more streamlined approach that we can get to accomplish what we need to. So I want to be clear, the lease is going to change. It needs to change in order to meet the our compliance issues. It just needs to be done in a way that's more user friendly, I guess is the best way to say so we're I just wanted to let you all know that we're we're moving down that road and and it's likely you're going to hear these things again in the future because there's just certain things. Obviously from this conversation, we just don't know. But what I can tell you as soon as we find them, they're going to dig it, we're going to dig into them and see what we can come up with. The other thing that I wanted to give the board a heads up on and we were working on this yesterday. So you didn't get your financial reports this month because we are now in the middle of getting ready for budget for the housing authority, which is a lot of work just so you know, I was not jumping into that until I could get the city's budget and everything presented to the council. We did that. So now we're starting to work on this. More importantly, tracing our Kendra and Kathy have been working on submitting the budget to HUD for their that for the lodge in Hearthstone, that's actually due today. So they've been working feverishly on that. One of the things that we're also working on is a notice because it's a two to two property, correct, Kathy? It's because it's a two to two property, what we're submitting in this budget request actually entails a rental increase that HUD will pay for. And so because of the HUD regulations, we have to put a notice to the residents about this. And so they're working on that notice so that it can be very clear to say we are submitting a budget request to HUD, of which they will pay for the increase. But we have to notify you of a rental increase, essentially, is what it's saying. But in case you all get any calls, it really is, we're saying here are things we need to add to the budget for the lodge in Hearthstone. So that HUD can tell us whether or not they will pay for those those increases in the rent. Specifically, what we're looking at is that historically in that budget there hasn't been any ongoing maintenance dollars. So we're including ongoing maintenance for things like the boiler, annual carpet cleaning, annual window cleaning, I mean, basic things that you need to do in a facility that have never been included in that budget. We've also included a support service function because because it is a two to two property, we feel that there is the need for support services. And that's been included in that. We think it's something we need actually more globally to all the facilities. But this is our first run at it with HUD. And so we've included that and we'll be submitting that this afternoon. But I just wanted to give you all heads up. If you hear anything, it's a rental it's a rent increase to HUD. Not to the individuals, correct, Kathy? Correct for the two oh twos for the two oh twos. Lodge and Hearthstone is the one we're talking about in this middle. I know HUD closed that down for a while. I don't know how long it's been. It's hard for us to tell. I don't know how long it's been since the housing authorities actually done something like this and asked HUD to pick up more based on the operations. One of the things that is the budget also has to be public. One of the things that really ties into the technology piece that we're working on is that as part of connecting the facilities into our ETS network, we're utilizing next slide because that's the backbone for the city's network. And so they have a plan to bring it into the facilities. We've also been in conversations in terms of creating a bulk rate for phone and internet service of which we've included in this proposal to see if HUD will cover that cost because it is in this case in this property, a two oh two property, which gives us some different components. They could say yes or no. Typically what happens, we submit it, they come back to us and say, we'll do this, we won't do this, then we have to resubmit. That's a process we're going through there. Kendra did a phenomenal job really in identifying and working with everyone to identify what we probably should have had in this budget a long time ago in terms of the ongoing operating costs associated with those facilities. So it is going to be different. But what we're trying to do is at least hopefully they'll say yes, but if they don't get it on the radar, get it on HUD's radar. So they know truly what the operating cost is for these facilities. I'm missing thing Karen and Kathy. Yeah, Harold, can I just add just for information sake that two or two properties. The residents will not experience a rent increase because their rent is based on their income. And I appreciate the fact you're sensitive to that in the letter that you have to post. Just in if you have to do capital letters and bold, your rent will not increase what you pay will not increase. Because that does create a lot of a lot of pushback. Yeah, it does. It's interesting because when you talk about the lease issue and the protocols we put in place, I could we Karen and Kathy and I could see the conversation via email. And it was one of those where we jumped in, I think all three of us at the same time very quickly and said, okay, stop. Let's make sure we get the notice right. Kathy and Kendra were on the phone with HUD was sending a sample notices that have been used in other properties to do that very thing. Because we didn't want to take something that could be really positive for the organization in those facilities and create something that would send us in another spin cycle. So great point, Shane. Yeah. And it is if you it's based on your income. So if you're paying 30% of your income, your 30% is going to stay the same or if it's 50%, whatever that number is. As we look at the budget, just I know Kathy had it as an item and I'm just going to tee that up so we can move into the budget discussions. The one thing I will say is we started having some conversations and we had to free Kendra up to finish the broader to finish the lodge and hearstone budget. You know, one of the things that you've heard me talk about is hiring positions where the rubber meets the road, making sure that we have people in positions that serve the residents and and what I will tell you in looking at the budget at this point is and what you're likely to see and I'll let Kathy talk go into more detail on this is is that my look at the budget when we look at the existing structure and this gets into the sustainability piece that I think our consultant was talking about and that we've been talking to you all about is that when you you have a budget that is dominated by the salary in terms of dominated by an executive director and then also dominated by chief financial officer what that really does is pull the available resources away from really the positions that you need to have in place adequately compensating community managers you know what is the benchmark for those positions really getting in you know eventually the accountants that you need in place to do the work and so I will preface it but before Kathy gets in is that as we look at this you you will see unless something changes drastically a budget coming to you all without those two positions in it so we can use the revenue for other positions and essentially it's I don't say this it's less expensive for someone for the three of us to jump in and do this then to hire a CFO and a CEO or executive director and some of these other positions so so you will see a budget that's bringing that to bear there miss anything on that Kathy Karen no I would just read or back up that point I guess with as we're moving into this budget process we're finding anomalies in the financial system just to give an example some things like double entering things because it didn't show up from one month to the next so an expense was double entered so figuring all of that out and trying to back it out so what we're facing is not having a very good picture overall broadly we have a good picture of the financial system but the the more specifics in property by property not as good a picture as we would like in order to be able to do really good budget so probably what we're going to have to do while we're unraveling the rest and bringing in the consultant accountants to do some forensic accounting and trying to get you already reflecting what has actually happened and correcting journal entries etc is to prepare a budget and as Harold said not having those higher level positions but lower level positions so that we know that we can afford so we have a budget that makes sense for now but maybe adjusted in 6 months or halfway through 2021 something like that as we get to a better financial picture and know what we can really can do and can't do around that so it's going to be probably kind of a weird budget year I guess I would say this year as we move through each property and some absolutely look better than others and so trying to figure out why that is some of it is because of the way they're set up some of it like the suites has got project based vouchers attached to everyone so there's a higher level of rent that's paid by HUD through that versus the other properties that don't have as many vouchers and it's all tenant paid rent so it's going to be inconsistent across properties and I would imagine that at some point we're going to need to do budget readjustments in 2021 but our goal is to have the best budgets that we can going into that period for you guys to look at and feel comfortable approving but it is going to take a lot of work a lot of work and actually and this is where you kind of see this moving in and out you know this is something that I actually like to do budgeting that's kind of how I started out and so you'll probably see me a lot in this and the work that we're doing and it's as basic as so a question that I asked on the Friday when we met there's certain properties that we see that have historically budgeted in a deficit and so you know I want to why did they always historically budget in a deficit and and it really is that forensic accounting piece that you have to come in with and go so what's happened and so we're going to be working through all of those issues so in terms of the budget coming to you all it's going to probably come in very late but we want to make sure that we present the best budget that we can based on what we know and really understand what are the operating costs associated with the facilities and what do we need to do because Kathy's right we're seeing double revenue entries double expenditure entries we're you know in terms of staffing cost and it took us a little bit to untangle it because when we came into this what we thought was budgeted and what and this and that number we gave you all we had to do all of this work so there may have been an accountant position that was vacant and budgeted but at some point they created other positions and funded it with the accounting position but didn't adjust the budget to show that the accounting position was unfunded and they utilize these positions and honestly it looks to me like that's sort of been a historical trend it's not anything new not to say that it was something that was new with Gillian it looks like that has been something that has gone on for a while and so it's really at this point of really rebuilding the budget foundation as well at the same time we're also going to look into the benefit structure so I've asked some questions we've got to really contact the health insurance broker because we know it's time to re-up that but we're trying to evaluate what's the cost of benefits on this side versus what's the cost of benefits on the city side and what makes more sense does it make more sense to bring those positions over if it's savings we also have to put that in the framework of recruitment and retention in terms of the level of plan so there is a lot of work that's going to go into this budget process. Some of the things as I think I've indicated to you all may lead us to certain conclusions faster than we have originally assumed but it's really going to be a numbers-based approach and a really pragmatic approach as we're moving through this. Harold does that look at the budget at all calling the question the numbers that we're telling council about tonight? No I think we're good on those numbers because that's taken all of that into consideration. So that was work that we were doing before based on what we were trying to see what we had in terms of salary savings because if the CARES funding wasn't going to come through then we're going to have to figure out how to pay for the technology and some of the other things and so that number is good actually. And you'll see something similar in that as we move into the next budget cycle because remember I think you had in the CFO I believe it was salary only was around 100,000, 110,000 and then you have benefits on top of that and then on the CEO you had 150,000 and then benefits on top of that so that's what we're not doing in order to make sure that some of these other things can be done. So you'll see that start flowing through but that's what we're working on now. Dr. Wadden. Dr. Wadden. Thank you Cameron. Harold as you described what will be reflected in this budget and what won't. It kind of connected to Cameron's question about if they unspent budgeted but unspent balances right for the rest of this year that puts LHA in a position to reimburse the city for some probably not all of the time and effort and expense the city is experiencing. Sounds to me like you're gonna bring us a budget for 2021 that does not have that capacity or does not have money budgeted to cover that kind of executive service in 2021. So will that put LHA in the position in 2021 not being able to reimburse the city for the kinds of services that you and Karen and Kathy and. I think that's true. So I think that's part of where there's two conversations happening. And so when we look at the budget we know that you all are having that conversation and we know that the council is gonna have that conversation. That's information that will have to be pulled in so that we can create so that we can finalize that. So that's gonna be a little bit of the lag too that we have to wait on. We're not, I don't think we're gonna need all of the funds to hire the positions. But what we're doing right now is we've gotta work through that. We're just not at that point. I just know that in terms of if there was a thought of rehiring and an executive director that only did that don't have that financial capability. If we were gonna look at rehiring a CFO that would only do that we don't have that financial capability. That's really the message. I think you've been clear that. And I think as you talked about the hybrid model and giving us 18 months to make a decision in terms of what the relationships look like and what staffing looks like. You wouldn't expect to see that. But in terms of sustaining even this relationship into 2021, you know, I just, I'm one LIJ board member who thinks we gotta make certain that in the interest of sustainability we have to build it out. So that the, so that LIJ probably not to the level of value but at least has a way to transact with the city some kind of reimbursement for what you and Kathy and Karen and others bring. And I would say one more thing. Kathy used the word weird. She struggled for words of, well, maybe it's weird. Kathy's been weird for as long as I've been on the board. Now, I don't know if that's a noun or an adjective but maybe it's both in this case but it's always been weird. And it's getting weirder apparently as we go along. So I'm certain you'll get it straight now. Yeah, and I think to answer your question and to be clear on my point what I've got to look at, I have to look at in the budget is exactly what you said is what are we doing, who's involved and what does that look like and how do we incorporate in the budget for Kathy, Karen and the others that are involved? Obviously I will not put anything in there for me. That's a different conversation for others but for those that work under me that I supervise I have to bring that in as part of the budget conversation. The good news. So we've talked about a lot of issues. And as we're talking about budgets what I did want to let you all know is I actually did have a good conversation with Darren at Fort Collins. And this is not unusual. They actually went through the same thing. The piece that was really good news for me is when he talked about what Fort Collins did it almost mirrors exactly what we're doing and the way we did it. So that's good news, meaning we're tracking in a way that another organization did. Fort Collins has eventually transitioned into being one of the housing authorities that people really, when you go back to the mission statement we talked about we want people to replicate our model and whatever we do. They're really at that point. Now it took a long time. And the timeframe they used was it was about 10 years before it really got to where it needed to be. I saw Kathy's look. But I think the good news is as I talked to Darren and he and I are going to meet again we're moving in I think a really good direction. We're tackling the issues we need to. It looks like others that have been in this process. The thing that we just need to say is patience and tenacity I think are going to be key for all of us as we continue to do this and understand that there will continue to be issues that pop up. In the case of Fort Collins they actually took that approach with a deputy director. They hired someone in that worked for Darren in this process in a lower level position. That person's actually the one running the organization now. So wanted you all to know that what we're doing is not inconsistent and the more I'm talking to my colleagues they're starting to hear that we're actually moving in the same direction they did. And very similar to what I've seen in other communities I've worked in when I was a entry level management assistant and they had issues with their housing authority. It was sort of the same approach. So the good news is I think we're moving in the right path. We just need to be patient. Karen, Kathy, do you have anything to add to that? Not specifically that, but other good news is that the Briar Boy departments now have full access to next light. We move very quickly to get them because a couple of them have kiddos that needed to have that for their school, virtual school. So that was a quick turnaround by next light to get them access at the discounted rate. So they're pretty happy there. So they are moving to that point. They do have a plan to have access at all the facilities. By the time the cutover has to take place for our facility and we are, when we have the opportunity financially really trying to look at the concept of bulk rates for the facility, because we think that has a tremendous value. And to give you a sense of what we're hearing, I had an email from some, I think it may have been Michelle where people are paying in aggregate up to like $150. And so in our conversations with next light based on why people are in the housing authority properties we deem that as a qualifying factor for our reduced rate structure that we have in place which is obviously a lower bandwidth but what they would have to pick up if it were up to them as an individual, if they wanted the full makeservice they only have to pick up potentially the difference in the rate structure which is still less money. If we can do a bulk rate then it shifts it dramatically for them but when you start layering the cost it really is how do you impact their disposable income by providing these types of services. So next light's been a great partner in this and this really is getting at when we talk about digital divide the digital divide doesn't only exist in youth in the youth of our community. We know that the digital divide also exists for our older adults and so it really isn't a great partnership that we've been developing with them in terms of posing that gap as quickly as we can and they've been really, really responsive in terms of getting into these facilities. I know that was a question the council asked and so what we can say is hopefully within a month or so Kathy we should have next light in every one of the housing authority properties. You know and I think the only thing that I would just echo is the need for patience and tenacity. So it's quite a journey and as Harold mentioned it could be a 10 year journey for some folks but we are learning as city staff we are learning right alongside the board the housing authority staff and the road can be a little rocky and so we just ask for patience we ask for inputs. Don't hesitate to reach out to us when you hear things or you wonder what the heck is going on. You know we invite that because it really is about persevering and getting to the future that we all want but I think we just, you know we talked about yesterday yesterday was a really difficult day, you know it seems like everything that we touched went wrong and so we will have those days and we also have days where it's a beautiful thing and so certainly please continue to give us input not hold back on what you're hearing or what questions that you have and we will do our best to work through that but I think patience and tenacity two good adjectives and things that we really need to continue to hang on to as we move forward. I'll come to Dr. Waters but I do want to point out to Kathy and Karen that we will from the board give you a plaque when you get to your 10 year anniversary with LHA. So we'll go. I was just gonna ask if Ciaran just signed up for 10 years because I'm gonna sleep well tonight if he answers yes. We'll have to figure out where you're gonna send that plaque. Were you just, you were just gonna tell me where to put it? I know. And I think that's the, you know not to dismiss me, we have issues and we develop you know we've talked about adjusting protocols so we know what's going on in a different way. I can't underscore the work that's being done by everyone, you know folks that are been with the housing authority that have remained to stay and just the fact, the perseverance that they have dealing with us because we do drive and they've done a phenomenal job at that. The work from the city team that's come into play has been, everybody's done phenomenal work but you know, I look at Kathy, Karen I think we've talked about this. Darren and I talked about this. This is probably in our career, the hardest work at least in my perspective, the hardest work that we've ever done in terms of trying to still understand, move but at the same time I will tell you it's also in many ways the most rewarding work that I have done in the sense that at the end of the day are missions to house people and to take help take care of those that most needed in our community. So while it's incredibly hard, it's incredibly rewarding and so patience and tenacity because the reward is great. This is kind of how we're looking at this. Well, it is appreciated. Sounds like we've wrapped up your report, Harold is that correct? All right, well let's move on to board comments and reports, does anyone have anything they'd like to add or discuss today? No one. Well, I will point out the council will be discussing us tonight. They discussed us a couple of weeks ago. So tune in, it's liable to be must-see TV. Cameron, are you gonna be on there, right? I'll be on there. Yeah, your schedule. Maybe offline to figure out what you want me to do, but I'm available. Yeah, I think it's just you need to give whatever the letter and go over that with them. And Susan, I forgot to, yeah, yesterday was Monday. I forgot to tell you, we need to invite Karen to this meeting. Susan, since you're on. Karen. Cameron, he's already invited. I got an invite. Perfect, somebody took care of it, thank you. Yep. All right, well, if there are no other comments or reports, our next meeting will be October 20th. I don't see a special meeting in our future, but we're the LHA, so that may happen. Kathy, do you wanna jump in? Yeah, sorry. Another exciting thing are AMA closing, loan closing is scheduled for September 23rd. So I just realized it would be before y'all meet again. So yay, if that actually happens on that date or even close to that. And then we're also starting to schedule the conversion to permanent for Fall River as well. So that's probably a couple of months process, but at least it's getting started. So yay. And then we have an element coming for the tax credit in February and that's for the other property at the suites. So good things are happening. All right, well, thank you all for your persistence and stamina. We will talk again next month and I will call this meeting adjourned. Thank you all.