 It's Wednesday. It's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly joining me as always and I'll make the joke this time my own little scrap launcher. No, I made it out on the first introduction. Thanks folks or actually no thanks Vince for being a terrible person and not unmuting yourself. I can hear everybody should be able to hear me now. I assume it looks like it. Yes. Okay, there you go. Sorry about that everybody. I'll cut out the silent part at the beginning once I edit. The problem is when I have this booted up I what happens is I have to start this whole stream and then like basically put it in pause mode for like hours and hours before this actually goes live. And so I mute it because I don't want it just picking up every random sound in the in the world if I'm talking or whatever. And then I forget to unmute myself before we go live. So I need to make myself a checklist that says. Did you unmute? Did you change the stream key? You know, like go down this list. That is so you know. Indeed. At any rate tonight we're talking conversions but of course we're also going to talk about some other fun stuff. We're going to talk about hashtag Banslenesh. I learned something new today. I learned that if you put a hashtag into a YouTube description it'll then tag the video with that and it'll like show up on the left under the under the name of the video. It's a thing now. You've created it. It's a thing now. Yeah, I guess Rob didn't formally hashtag it as Banslenesh but I did. If you're going to do something in the modern world, Rob, geez, come on. Did you just get on social media yesterday? I mean you make it a hashtag. That's how we get things done in the modern world, right? That's all that works. Make hashtags. That's how you solve problems. In the modern world, problems are solved with words. Words like hashtag Banslenesh. At any rate, we're going to talk through that but of course we're also going to talk about some news and boy oh boy goodie, do we have a lot of it this week because we have had, this is a packed, packed, packed week. So Tom, what have we got for the news? I want to talk about that rumor engine. I don't. I didn't even bring up the image because it's a 40k thing. No, stop your, stop your terrible lies. It needs to be a auger of AZ or witch hunter army. It's a 40k thing. It's a 40k gun. I'm not even bringing it up Tom. I have an ogre picture up on the screen for everybody. I know. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about ogres. Yes. So we got a 40k gun. It looks like another inquisitor or something like that. My hope would actually be if you want real talk about what I think it is. I hope we're finally getting the inquisitor kill team. That's, you know, that kind of a thing. They had put out some test rules in White Dwarf. Yeah. And something like that. I would love it if it was like an ornate gun to like a rogue trader or another inquisitor team or something like that. They've been exploring a lot of that. They've done a couple of different rogue traders. I'd love more of that stuff. Those are all cool minis. So, you know, but it's a 40k thing. Anywho, so yes, this week we got the big announcement to another week of two books going up on pre-order. We're rolling them out, folks. Choo choo. Get on the book train. It's leaving. Ogres, the bone daddies. I'm glad to see bone daddies is catching on. That's what they are. They're bone daddies. We're all, let's all agree right now, all of us watching that we're never going to use the real name. It's just going to be the bone daddies. And I already know how much that drives certain people nuts. And that's why I'm more excited for it because it's funny to me. And so bone daddies, yes. Those two, as well as the feast of bones. Feast of bones, Tom, I'm sorry to say this has falsified one of your predictions off of a ding, ding, ding. I'll predict a thing show. Yeah. Let me say this. I'm not surprised. That was one of my long shot calls, was that it was going to be something not expected. That said, it's also probably going to falsify the fact that we're going to get a new kit. Remember I took a long shot with the noblars? Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. No, they're not there. Yeah. So, yeah, I figured that all of most of my ogre stuff is going to be swinging a miss, which, okay. I'm sorry. To be honest, I looked back at our predictions in light of what we got today because I did go and watch the, I went back and watched the video that Ben Johnson did today and Nick Horth or whatever and Wade and which was really good, by the way. And I don't think there is a lot of wrong predictions off of our regga ding, ding show. Let me just say, we took a lot of shots on goal. Not many got in. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. For any of those that think that we have inside sources that are leaking stuff to us, that's not true. No. Nobody keeps anything. Yes, the prediction show should demonstrate that. Right. I wish Derek said, Derek said, so Vince wins the kit. We're not there yet. There's still many, there's still some predictions not to be known, but I can say there's already a lot of red lines on that sheet. That's for sure. Yes. But at any rate, yes. So again, two books. We've got the big box set, which is I think at this point the only, that's how that's where the tyrant's going to be, right? They haven't announced the tyrant actually being available separately, the new tyrant. Yeah, it'll be at least six to nine months. Could be. I mean, sometimes these things actually become available and many times they do not. But at this point, they said, yeah, if you want it, it's the only time we're announcing it being available at the moment is within the Feast of Bones kit. Well, yeah. I mean, my, my exhortation would be like, show me a recent box character that's shown up. All the ones from this year. Yeah, nothing from this year's shown up. Yeah. Yeah. Like the Bombadier from the Skaven. Like none of it. None of it is materialized. Yep. I agree. Which I don't, like again, I'll say it again and again. For a lot of stuff, I don't really care because like you can convert any of that stuff. Like the Arch Revenant is just a tree Revenant with some wings on him. It's not hard. Like that's the easiest conversion in the universe. The Arch or the, sorry, the Bombadier is just a dude with a rocket. Like your many kits have rockets, you know what I mean? Like the Hellstorm rocket battery comes with a bunch of rockets. Like I've converted two of them. I'm pretty sure other people could do. So, you know, yeah, the point being is that like that stuff can be gotten or converted, but some of it's real hard. The Harpist from like Slanesh is a good example of one that I'm glad they released separately because that would have been like an impossible conversion. Right? That's like the last one I can think of where they did end up releasing it separately, which was the Harpist. Yeah. Because you can go by just her. That's been a while. Yeah. I mean, that was out of Wrath and Rapture at like the end of last year. And then obviously she came out with the Slanesh release, right? Right. I mean, there were some before that, right? So that's the last one in the order I can think of. So, hey, great day if you happen to be reselling stuff on eBay, I guess. So wonderful. I'm not excited about that, but a lot of good stuff there in the news as far as that goes. We got a lot of confirmation. They did the Maw Tribe show today. Right. They're doing the Bone Daddy's show next week. And, you know, there was a lot of stuff that they unpacked. So for those who didn't get a chance to watch the show, I did watch it and compile some facts. So here are some facts. Lead us through those, Vince. All right. So, oh, by the way, we know the Feast of Bones kit is going to be 195 U.S. and I think it's like other prices, other places in the world. I think in New Zealand, you can get like that or a small mid-sized sedan, something like that. Like the point being that the dual army boxes have went up in cost. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they went up to 195. But it didn't go up to the, I think everybody was afraid that like the Phoenix Rising, which was Tuesday, would be the new watermark and that's not the case. So, okay, everything from the old range has migrated across for the Ogres, meaning they did not kill any kits. But upside, none of the kits got removed. So, managers are still there, firebellies are still there. Both butchers are still there, but they're different now. They're different characters. So like the standalone butcher is a character and the guy hauling around the cauldron that used to be the special character, he's now the slaughter master. Yeah, that's just like a mistake. Yeah, and they're all fine cast. So like the hunter is still there and, you know, like everything, everything, everything is still there. All of it. So like if your question is, this fig in the Ogre army, is it still part of this combined book? By the way, that's Ogres or PCR, right? Right. It doesn't still exist as that rules. Yes. The answer is yes. So upside, yay, all your cool figs are still there and still totally usable. Downside, all those figs are still fine cast. If you're collecting new, if you already have your force, hey, great, it's a win. If you were looking to buy new, enjoy the fine cast. It could be double army box. Sure. Or and or get ready to do some conversions, right? Because the reality is you do have a good number of plastic kits that you could convert off of. And in fact, one of the things they talked about in there is there is a whole section in the mall tribes book on conversions, because the Ogre force is being a very like non militaristic force as it were. They don't, they're not like Stormcast or somebody like that or the cities. Right. They have like a very, they have very unique markings and adornments and will frequently like display trophies on themselves and things like that. So you can just, you know, they talked a bunch about about them doing a bunch of conversions. So sweet. And they actually gave some cool pictures from there that were really nice. Because keep in mind those Ogre kits, they're from that. They're still really quality plastic. I stand behind the Ogre kit, just the regular Ogre, I think they're called like, yeah, the regular Ogre bull. That's not what they're called anymore. Now they have another new name, which I am not remembering. They're a third naming or whatever. But those kits like them and the Mornfang and the, you know, all the, the, all the big Huskar guy and the Lead Belchers, whatever the, the big guy on the, the big Ogre on the, on the mount, right? Yep. The Frost Lord and stuff. Those kits come with a lot of extra pieces, like a lot of extra pieces. And I've used tons of that stuff for conversions. So that's pretty cool. You get a lot of extra, like weapons and guns and little armor pieces. And it's, it's cool. Okay. Oh, yes. Doom is saying move on. He doesn't need to convert anything. Okay. Here we go. Other facts. The Fire Belly obviously is still a spellcaster and he has a full on lore. Like there is, and you should expect a lot of fun spells. I think they mentioned one called greasy exaltation, which just made me think of the greasy strangler. So, but that's, you know, expect a lot of food related puns and gut and eating related puns. There are two new army wide rules they previewed that are pretty, pretty exciting. Pretty, pretty exciting. So here's the first one. Trampling Charge. So Trampling Charge gives them back mortal wounds on the charge with you, which if you're a old school. Thank you. Glutton's everybody said it in the chat. Yes, is their new name. The, if you played ogres back in Warhammer Fantasy days, you know that when ogres charged you, if you rolled a certain number, they did impact hits basically. So now what happens is when ogres charge you, you get to roll a number of dice equal to your charge roll. Okay. So like if you roll an eight on your charge, then you get, you get to roll eight dice for every six up, you deal a mortal wound. However, if the unit has 10 or more models or is a monster, you do the wounds on a four plus. Now, is it roll or result? I don't know what you mean. Oh, unmodified roll. Sorry for the charge. Yes. So the second rule is that bonus your charge do not give you additional dice. It is the unmodified charge roll. Okay. Got it. Yep. So like cogs isn't helping you here or stuff like that. The second rule and the most important one, the one we talked about that needed to be added that we talked, I think we might have even called the name. I've got to go back and watch the show. The second rule is called might is right. So might is right. Ogre models count as two models for purposes of taking objectives. But if they are monsters, they count as 10. Manswine, what are you saying I'm incorrect about? Manswine is saying I was incorrect about something. What did I, what did I mess up, buddy? Because I wrote all this down, but if I missed something, you can please tell me. Okay. Let's see. Oh, sorry. It's eight, not 10. I apologize. Thank you, Manswine. There you go. Not 10 to get the plus two to charge. Well, totally changes the rule, but no, good correction. You do it. People pulling the um, actually on me. Anyways, no, it's fine. Thank you. So yes. So that's good trampling charge. And yeah. So regular ogres count as two models. Monsters count as 10. Fantastic. Great. Wonderful. Boom. Back at the objective. Book done. Solved it. Ogres are good now. All the rest is just a reprint of whatever was in. There's nothing else. No, no, there's more stuff. Uh, there are other sort of army wide rule is hungry versus eating. So yeah, this is a pretty fascinating little thing here. So ogres are always either hungry or eating. Okay. They can only exist in two states. Okay. All right. Yep. They're hungry if they're more than three inches away from an enemy, i.e. if they're not in combat, right? So this is determined on the unit. Yeah. Like each unit. Yep. So a unit is hungry if it's more than three inches away from an enemy, if it's not in combat. In that case, it gets plus two to move. Okay. All right. So which like they're motivated to go get that meat, right? Which is pretty great. Like that actually makes ogres really fast. Like it's a pretty fast army now. It's a big boy move. Uh, yeah. Uh, the, and they're eating if they're within three inches of an enemy. In other words, if they're fighting because it's assuming all, like all the ogres, I saw at least all the foot ogres. I don't know if they'll put it on like the mounted dudes because we didn't get to see those girls have a, have an additional attack that's like a, them eating you like biting you. Yeah. Like an ogre bite that's just like a standard kind of, you know, weak attack, but it's an extra attack, right? That they all get shirts. Um, so if they're in combat with you, they are attempting to eat you. And in that case, they get plus two bravery. So they're just, you know, more resilient to, to running away and stuff. Because they're eating. Uh, because they're eating. Yes. They're, they're, they're, um, they're, they're more interested in, in, uh, and sticking around. They're not, they're not running away from the feast is basically how was explained, which I liked. Uh, here's some other fun facts. There is a noblar battalion that's all knob lars and scrap launchers. Go on. Uh-huh. I don't know what it does. It makes the scrap launcher better. They did preview the scrap launcher. It, it's okay. It's still not great, but it's okay. It depends on the points. If the scrap, I mean the numbers were fine because it makes like a few attacks at three, four, no red and D three damage. Right. Sure. Yeah. If the, but if it's like 80 points or something or 60 points, maybe it's worth it. If it's just like a skirt, rudder, chariot, I don't know, maybe, uh, but we'll see, but there is that battalion does exist. Um, the, uh, and then the, in the beast on the BCR side, the huskards are now priests and have their own priest lore like a whole priest prayer table. Weird. I couldn't have imagined. So that, that's a, that's for real. Um, they, and then obviously there are, this one is going to have enclaves, chambers, temples, whatever. Um, and each of those is key to a certain sort of fighting style. So they mentioned that like kind of the generic guts is like, what was it like the meat fist, something or other? I don't know. Sure. There's like the under guts, which is the black powder ones that are all about pistols and cannons. Uh, there's a, there's a one that's all about like hunters and yetis because hunters got kind of promoted up to be full on generals now. Uh, so like, assuming they got some better rules and their world scroll isn't total trash anymore, but they did get their own list of command traits as did butchers, the big dudes on the back of the stone horns or whatever, and the regular tyrants. Um, so yeah, there's, you know, there's, I think they said there's five different of the chambers might have been four or five. They didn't say exactly. They just named a bunch off and I didn't, I didn't catch exactly how many there were. Um, so yeah, there you go. We saw a little bit of the scrolls. I'm not going to deep dive on the scroll because that's more for when we do the Maw Tribe show, right? Yeah. Um, but like, you know, there were improvements. Obviously a lot of this has to do with seeing the thing holistically understanding the rest of the command traits. What are the new spells? What are the artifacts? You know, it's hard to look at a scroll without any other thing around it and go, oh, it's totally better now. You know, or it's, or it's better good because there's just not enough points are like, right, such a big deal. Yeah, exactly. What are the points? What's the support? Um, they did mention that like one of the, I think it's that meat fist thing or whatever has an ability where it buffs your impact hits thing, your trampling charge. So I assume it adds another one to that role. So now like your big units are doing it on threes and everybody else is doing it on fives, right? So that's kind of cool. Or your big units are your monsters. Sorry. We lost Tom's camera while he suddenly goes away to do something else. Okay. That's fine. Uh, but yeah, a lot of good, there you go, you're back. A lot of good stuff overall. That's kind of all the facts they really shared there. There was a couple other sort of minor things, but that's I think the big sweep of it. Um, at a high level, the important part is this is not an Orc Warclans build. Right. That is to say, um, it isn't like, like with Orc Warclans, you had like, this is the iron jaws. Turn the page. This is the bone splitters. They are completely separate things and then turn the page. Here's the big wall and that's how you can bring them together. This is much more of a combined like Gits type of experience. Yeah, where it's like you can mix and match. There are obviously power pairs of things that will sort of make sense to go together. Right. Right. But, but, but it's not two separate things. So realistically, you're going to probably see some fairly integrated forces, whereas I think with Orc Warclans, you will very often still see like just a bone slitter's army and just an iron jaws army and so on and so forth. Right. Yeah. So most people are probably happy about that. Sorry. Hey, whoa, Twitch. So there you go. His, his prediction seems to be coming true, but time will tell. So, but if you are an ogre player and you have like a legacy ogre army from before, obviously this is all great news because you probably had a mix of both of everything. Right. But now everything's been brought back together. No more separate fire belly faction and there are still those chambers. Some of them lean very heavy quote unquote gut busters and would incentivize, you know, basically making that kind of thing. Whereas some lean very traditional BCR and would encourage making a more traditional BCR army, but you can still, you know, mix it. Right. Yeah. I mean, the book feels like a, here's your book, now be quiet and go buy some gets. I mean, look, there's, there is never a reason to complain about getting a book and like the reality is from this is, this is, so by the way, last week I had said who worked on the Orc book. Jervis had done the work on the Orc book. So thank you Jervis. I just wanted to say that because it's a great book that I really love. Sam and Nick Horth, I believe were the guys who worked on this one. And, you know, by all accounts, it looks really cool. They talked a lot. They're clearly very excited for it. You could, you could really tell that they had a great time working on this and they mentioned that like many people on the design team and in the studio and such have ogre armies or were building ogre armies because they were just so when they got wrapped up in writing this, it was just really exciting and they really loved the lore of it. And the, the story and the attitude like everything about ogres that is fun and cool and compelling, right? And it got them. And I, by the way, I think they are a great, a compelling army because of the whole relatively low model counts, lots of conversion possibilities, very friendly paint jobs to new painters, right? Because they have very defined like muscle structures. They take well to things like washes and stuff like that. So yeah, you know, I think they're, they're cool. Most of today's focus was obviously about that. We didn't really get much bone daddy information. We've been getting, you know, the trickle of bone daddy information. We've seen individual kids. Well, we see the unit stats, right? We've seen their terrain. Yes. We did see the big terrain piece. Same for the guts, by the way, they do get the mall pot and the mall pot can sort of like once it's full and then once you heal everybody, it's empty. I'm sure there's going to be some way to refill it like a prayer, a prayer for meat. And like, you know, then they can, then they can, they get more, more meat in the stew. And if you're an ogre player and you satisfy the conditions to refill your mall pot and you don't say looks like meat's back on the menu boys, right? If that is not what you say, I understand that's actually like an orc saying that or whatever, an orc, I guess. But come on now. Come on now. That's the appropriate thing to say. So anyway. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm sure that we could probably think of something better. I don't know. It seems pretty appropriate. But at any rate. So yeah, that was the, that was the news off of that today. I'll, we'll be, I'm sure next week we'll be talking about bone daddies and much deeper thing because they'll go through the bone daddy's book. We got a little bit of news on them like they have army wide battle shock, RIP, any hope of a bravery bomb army ever placing in a tournament. Not that it was very likely anyways, but take that. You got an army wide battle shock immunity. So, you know, that's a gatekeeper in that regard. Well, I mean, yes, like, I was more interested in the fact that basically they've teased that there's an entirely new mechanic that they operate by that's not command point driven. Yeah, it's like regiment command or regiment points or something where each of their regiments have little mini commanders who can issue sub orders or something. Right. Like every unit has like basically a self buffing command ability. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm really interested to see what, how that ends up panning out. Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot to see on that army. We've seen a lot of cool stuff. Some of the rules look really neat. But I mean, we really don't have enough background on them yet to talk about them in detail, but a lot more bone daddy stuff coming very soon. So, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It looks interesting. I'm in. I mean, I'm not in to buy an army, but I mean, I am you have my attention. Right. Right. Right. I can't wait like I'll be very I yes, I know my dogs are wrestling in the background. I'll be fascinated if they if they if they suddenly win you over Tom, I'm going to love to live in that world where like if they release everything and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I want to do this army, but I don't like this and this and this big. So what are you going to do Tom? I'll convert it. Yeah. The reality is that like I'm not going to buy their models. Sure. Like, like, so if if I were to do like a bone daddy's army, I'm either going to do like a full tomb king's conversion army. Sure. Or like if I don't and if I don't go that route, I'll go the full death cast Eternals because they're all on the right size basis for like all the big the big bruisers and all, you know, like convert a bunch of storm cast and in either way, I don't buy any of those models. Sure. I'm sure there are still a few you would probably pick up to be part of it like just because they are. Unique and interesting. Like, like the leader guy, you know, bone chair. Yeah. And like some of the other like the soul shaper dude, that's a really cool, unique thing. I think he looks awesome. The soul shaper dude is like up in the air pulling the soul out of the site or whatever. I think it looks amazing. Yeah, like and it's not that I hate the army. Like please don't misunderstand me. It's just that like it's fine. Like and I'm and I'm pretty resolute about not starting a new army this year. Like I've made it this far. Sure. We're in October. I'm painting. I'm painting Night Haunt. Like this is what I said it to be in the air. I'm just going to do Night Haunt. Like I'm sticking to it. Haven't made a new army. This is me rolling my eyes like very hard and you can't see it, but they all can. I can't. But I mean I like I haven't like I've stuck to my guns folks. And and in despite the deluge of armies, I've held for sure. And if anybody who's betting on my dogs, if you want to know who's going to be the winner. No, it's this one right here. It's this little one who you can't see at the moment who's just you can see like her head. She's just out of frame because that one's mine. She's the the leader of the pack here. The other two are ones younger ones older, but she rules the roost at any rate. The the, you know, I think they are going to compel a lot of people like I think this army is another one of those things where people are going to see it and really, really love how it all comes together in some way because it'll be interesting. Somebody asked what I think of the fact that like those little characters that that you know these little characters who buff hence can't be removed because they're in a unit. They're like the unit champion, right? Well, first of all they can't be removed. There are still things that eat them like star drakes and stuff like that. We'll still just bite those dudes right out of the unit. So you better like Marathi will stare them to stone, right? And other things, those kinds of effects become real scary against against an army like this because if they're really reliant on their champion to empower them, like if they can't use any of their buffs without that champion, look out, right? Because I'm coming for you with those with those with those thing out and grab them or a giant stuffing them in their pants or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Because like all those guys in your basic units are going to be like one wound dudes. Right. They're real easy to pick off. Like the star drakes going to eat them and the banner bearer and the musician boom, boom, boom. Like you're just gulp. I hope this unit's still good without that. You know. Yeah. So at any rate, time will tell. All right. What else we got, Tom? That's a great question. Oh, we saw their endless spells too. Which what did you think of their house? I mean, it's fun. Sure. I thought they were like, fine. Exactly. Like the bird was the cool one. It was like, oh, that bird looks kind of cool. I could use him for other things. Like I look at the endless, I look at endless spells now like what's basing material? What's the spell I actually want to use? Or sorry, it goes like this. I look at the endless spells and look at the rules and I'm like, okay, what's the spells I would use? Shuffle those over here to the side. That's a very small pile, and then the rest is like, what can I put on to other figures for conversion? That's that's that's tier two on this flow chart. And then tier three is what's left basing material. Right. Yeah, like flow down that chart. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, I was happy that we got a plastic carrying model. Um, there you go. There you go. It only took 14, 15 years and the army being canceled, but we got that plastic carrying. There you go. Score. That is truly a hot take, Tom. That's my favorite take you've ever had on maybe anything ever. So way to go. We got a plastic carrying model. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Like I'm just, uh, I may warm to them, but I'm just not there because like, let me say it this way. Aesthetically, there's nothing in there that grabs me. If we had went for like full on like Eastern theme, like the, like the samurai on the, on the Lord's base, I would have been a lot hotter than I am. Gotcha. Right. Yeah. They're kind of a mishmash of different. Yeah. This like hybrid weird mishmash thing that we talked about. Like it's just, it's, it's not as interesting to me, but I never really like the more gas models either. Um, so, uh, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, and they could have some awesome rules. And if they do all converts and storm cast externals. Okay. Cool. You're going full death cast if it happens. There you go. Yeah. I mean, probably like, that's fine. I feel like this will be your kind of an army that's formerly known as the Lord of Death on Mr. Meff's rant cast, because he mentioned that like from everything we've seen at this, of this army, it seems like it'll have a relatively high skill floor, but a really, really high skill ceiling. If it has a lot of this, that kind of management of these different interacting elements. Right. Right. That's the kind of army that you like. Yeah. Because you like something that's very skill testing on you and has interesting ways that things can unexpectedly work together. Right. Yep. Yep. I mean, you're not wrong. Like that, that's, you know, the whole Johnny, that's a right in my wheelhouse of like interactions. So, yeah, like I said, like it's interesting, but at the same time, I just got the ultimate toolbox army in cities of Sigma. And like, I have all the models. So, you know, it's one of those like, and I have a really interesting concept though. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. Right on. All right. Next news piece. We got to talk about the FAQ, Tom. We, in all this, in all this bone daddy and ogre news, the FAQ dropped. That happened. So, Tom, what grabbed you about the FAQ? Oh, I don't know. I'm still confused. I'm not sure what I read. Well, there wasn't, let me say this. There wasn't really much that got changed. The notable thing that happened, we should mention, of course, is the hollow heart thing just didn't get addressed at all. Okay. Or, I mean, there are other abilities that like, that are still confusing to me. Like, there's a couple of spells that last forever in the cities of Sigma book. Like, until a condition is fulfilled, the spell stays on you forever. Hui Khan, you're right, by the way. Your guess is correct. Um, yeah, so like, there's just a couple things that didn't go addressed. And, yeah, I'm interested to see how that pans out. Yeah, I mean, the hollow heart thing standing honestly surprised me. It, not that it didn't change, that it wasn't even like in the designer's commentary of like a clarification, right, of just saying like, because it's the kind of thing that somebody would normally ask and be like, is this just equal to the die roll? Because that's how it seems to read, does the wounds taken not actually matter? So by de facto, that's how it's written. So I guess, yes, is the answer now? No, I mean, we were all just hiding, hoping that they wouldn't touch it, and we didn't want to bring their attention to it. It was the most discussed thing on the internet for two weeks straight. I'm positive they heard about it. Okay, they made 17 deadly as ever jokes during the stream today. I mean, I'm exaggerating, but they, like, talk about deadly as ever. They're aware of things that get discussed and beamed and jokes, right? Indeed. So, I'm, that one surprised me. You know, like the other thing that surprised me is they didn't block the old oryx out of the big walk. So like your old boss on, you know, Orc on Wyvern or dude on pig. Or your banner. Yeah, your banner bearer guy. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that as well. And I was curious. It was curious. And actually, like they clarified how the banner interacts, like in the commentary. So like, they not remove it. They answered it. Like, yeah, it still works. This is how it works. Okay. I guess. Thanks. It's fine. So that happened. I, and then obviously the one that I was kind of teasing about that is it's frustrating, but it's the reality that we live in is they, they included a very, like, ambiguously worded statement about, like, the latter pop publication. I don't think that was ambiguous. You're talking about the clarification that just came out there? Yeah. Like, what was ambiguous about that? So let me hold on. Let's set the stage. Pause. Yep. Yep. As we mentioned on the show either last week or two weeks ago, right, there is a standing FAQ that they had answered back to the original General's Handbook 19 FAQ. But that, I don't understand the book anymore. That has, I understand that got removed. I understand. But what it was, was it was a thing that said, do units that don't have pitch battle profiles in GHB 19, can they be used basically? Right. Yeah. And that's what I made a joke about. Right. And the original answer was just no. Like, okay, great. Who cares? Right. Right. And so that got removed and the answer got, well, the question didn't really get removed. And so it was, can units, can units that don't have, I have it. Sure. Bring up the exact text. Yeah. By all means. Thank you. Let's not paraphrase. Okay. Thank you. If a pitched battle profile has a later publication date than the latest General's Handbook, but its pitch battle profile is not included in the latest General's Handbook, can it be used in a pitched battle? The answer is yes. What's not clear? Maybe I'm just missing it. Help me out. What's not clear about that? If a pitched battle pitched battle profile has a later publication date than the latest General's Handbook. Okay. Yep. So if you are interpreting it like sooner rather than later. Okay. So later publication would imply in this reading, which I don't agree with. It's not necessarily the most natural. Oh, I can't wait for this. This is going to be some gymnastics. I'm ready. Okay. So where it says later, right? Say earlier because it is not sooner. It is later. So it's farther away, right? No. Well, later publication date means after the General's Handbook. But that is the English reading of that sentence. You cannot, you can't take the word out of context and say it also has this different annotation. I agree with that. But then it should be redundant because of course it's not like at the, then the question itself seems redundant because it says if a pitched battle profile has a later publication date than the latest General's Handbook. But it's not included. Well, of course it's not included because it's a later publication. That's just, so you're, you're arguing with the clarifying text. Yeah. Like, yes. Like it, what you're suggesting it or what that reading suggests is that reading it that way, this, the statement that like the clarification of what it's trying to specify is completely nonsensical because if it's published later, of course it's not going to be in the General's Handbook. Again, that's, that is some forest for the tree stuff. Okay. I'm, I'm just saying, and I've seen people argue that way as well. I don't think that, like your clarification is how I clarified it on Twitter when I was asked. Yeah. I agree with you. That said, I've seen people pushing hard to say, this is talking about compendium scrolls that were like, not included, that were published at an earlier date. To me, this is a simple answer to the previous thing. So if something comes out in the White Dwarf where a new unit shows up in a later book or whatever. Yep. They are now legal. Problem solved. I, like, you have to purposefully be obtuse to read this wrong. I mean, I'm not going to say that because I have seen people, like, very intentionally confused as to what this means. Now, I'm not going to cast dispersions at their ability to read, like, UR vans. I'm sure. I am because it's clear as a bell. I'm telling you right now. Here you go. Here's what it means. If something is published after the General's Handbook and has a pitch battle profile, can it be used? Yes. There you go. Until we publish the next General's Handbook. And then this cycle starts all over again because that's what sets pitch battle legality. Yep. Now, I understand this means that things like Mr. Mortality Glass and unfortunately, probably, the Fire Slayer's Battalion that was published a day before the GHB or whatever nonsense by the hard reading, that those are now illegal. Well, not only are they illegal. Okay. What this does is that this sets a precedent for how they are going to move forward. And that's a really important, part of my frustration wasn't just their stupid answer that did not... It didn't actually answer anything, yeah. Well, not only that, it made future things illegal. Right. I... Well, it was so plainly wrong no one even read it or used it. Right. So, but beyond that... Thank you, Skeleton. I appreciate Skeleton Flowers comment that English isn't his first language but he thinks it seems pretty clear. A plus to Skeleton. Indeed. But... So, my challenge here, what this does, what this communicates is that anything that is published always has a chance to disappear within a year. Sure. No, you're right. Go back to your face, by the way. We got it. We don't need this text anymore. Oh, sorry. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, here's what I'll say. No, there is a deeper conversation to be had here, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, like, all of this stuff is on a clock now. Yeah. So, that's my point. Like, you can buy things with a year expiration date now. Sure. Because if they don't include it in the XGHB, they are immediately illegal. Right. Totally. So, like, the Celeski Battalion, I know that some people are super excited that it's legal now, according to this FAQ, but this means it's illegal until next summer. And if it doesn't get rolled in the GHB, that's my point. Like, the deeper conversation that needs to be had here is not, oh, my God, the roof, the roof, the roof is on fire. Right. The conversation that needs to be had is, how are we going to legitimately handle this stuff? What are the expectations we as a community have and what expectations is GW going to set to that regard, right? Yeah. So, people from GW, if you happen to watch this, hi, well done on all the last books. Good to see you. This is a thing that I would put some internal focus on and think about publishing an article about. This would be a great pullback to open the kimono kind of conversation, right? This is what our intention is. This is what our intention is. And this is how we think of this stuff. We don't want to make your toys not be usable. Like, almost everything they do and have been doing over this year has been, really, we want you to use more of your toys, right? They've been trying to catch up books. We've been on this hurry-up offense with using more books, right? And, you know, so either stop putting pitched battle rules in White Dwarf completely if you're going to X them out in a year, which, by the way, I'm fine with. That's okay. They can do that. We hadn't had that forever anyways. So, like, if that's your intention, just don't put them in there at all. Or say, or make the formal distinction between and two plus tough, just mention this, and I actually agree with this a lot. Make the same distinction they made at at Nova, right? Of there's a difference between pitched battle legal and competitive legal. Okay. Yep. Where, like, this thing can be used in pitched battles because it has pitched battle profiles and it's got points and whatever, whatever, right? But that FAQ that you put up sort of is agnostic about that very distinction that they talked about with the Legend Scrolls. Right. But these are not intended for competitive play. Right. And so you just have to and you have to be considerate of things like, well, what does this mean for new players? If you publish sort of usable tournament rules in a White Dwarf, that's it. That's the only place they exist. Oh, by the way, it comes in four months from now. They're not getting that White Dwarf and have no idea what you're talking about when they show up to roll at a game with you, whether at a tournament or your local store or they walk into your basement and go, hey, I'm going to play these rules and you're like, what? What rules? Never heard of it. I need to issue a retraction or at least an acknowledgement. I had said like, hey, GW, why don't you publish the White Dwarfs digitally? Do you remember this? It started in June. Oh, neat. Oh, cool. So you can go and buy the PDF of a White Dwarf for $7.99 or whatever right now for all, since June. Nice. Which is even more egregious regarding the fire slayers. Sure. No, that's fine. But the point is is what I'd really rather, if they're going to continue to put pitched battle stuff in there, then I fall back to my previous discussion that I've said many times and I'll keep saying it until it happens, which is this stuff on Warhammer Community. It can't take up that much space. You already have the page layouts done, publish them into a PDF and put them on Warhammer Community. It's the simplest fix, right? I got a better one. Okay. Just put them in the app. No, I mean, that's fine. They can be in the app, too. But I'm saying like at minimum, I'm talking minimal amount of effort, right? Like, I'm assuming that they are strapped to the gills over there and nobody has free time, which is highly possible. They're really working hard. Sure. And I respect that. You're working hard toward it. And there's, there's a two-pound shot and a one-pound cannon. I get it. Okay. This is the simplest answer. You have the files in InDesign. They're already laid out. Pull out page X through Y. Export to PDF. Upload. Okay. Like I, I know you can do this. I've published books and in publishing books, I've removed sections and published them on my website for previews. Okay. You can do it. It's very easy. So like, whatever, that's, that's a low bar. I'm setting the lowest bar. Do more, you make me happier. But that's it. That's, that is a bar near the floor. Okay. And anyway. So there you go. That's my feelings on that one. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So good. Time will tell. Because it's just a positive thing. They can have a nice discussion on it. And we can go. There you go. Yeah. Cool. I want to talk about hashtag Banslenesh. That's what I want to talk about. That's our next news item. I, can I just not talk about Slenesh anymore? I'm just not interested. Every show, every show, apparently. We have to talk about Slenesh. You don't have to talk it all, Tom. Okay. I'm going to take a little drink here. Because I got, I got a wet my whistle for this one. This might go for a while, folks. Settle in. All right. Here we go. Okay. So let's talk about hashtag Banslenesh. So on Monday, Rob of the Honest Wargamer put out a hot take tweet saying that his belief is that the current move that TOs should take with Slenesh is to simply ban it from tournaments. Okay. And his reasoning for this was twofold. He probably, I'm sure it was manyfold, but two primary reasons. One, in 40K, they recently put out this iron hands expansion and it was broke. Okay. It was just super broken. Like it won 80% of the tournaments the weekend after it was published or something. Like it was out of this world. And frontline gaming who runs ITC. If I say anything wrong here, I apologize. I don't know the 40K tournament scene very well. Basically said, we're not going to allow this, we're banning this rule set. And GW said okay and put out, you know, sort of an FAQ and fixed it in a very rapid fashion. Right? Okay. So basically, ITC made this strong move and then GW responded and fixed it. And basically, it's better-ish now. I don't know how better it is because I can't judge, but a fix was made of some kind. Okay. And so secondly, Slenesh is currently the only army because also the stat show is back. LLV and the stats are back. So great. Hard work in LLV. He's back in the mix. I don't know if you got a chance, Tom, to watch the stat show at all, but it was real good. I have not yet. I have not. I'm very anxious to watch it. It was real good. A lot of cool stats. And here's one of the, I'm going to pause here for just a second to say, biggest headline, the number of events seemed to basically double. Some of that's probably just more tracking and more reporting, but some of that is just a lot more events over the same timeframe. Last year. And the meta, like when you, when you take out Slenesh, remember that fat middle we've talked about? It's actually really happening. Most armies are falling between 40 and 60%, with a pretty good number in the 45 to 55 range or in that kind of area. I mean, there's obviously a couple outliers that I have books like slaves to darkness. I figured out like 10%. It's just horrible. But like that stuff, it's not real as it were, right? Like no offense to the STD players, but like who's playing straight slaves to darkness and not playing like slaves to darkness as Slenesh or Zinge or something, right? Cause those will all get counted in them. The only time you get in slaves to darkness, if you truly play them is like undivided right now. Anyway, so that the fat middle is existing. The meta is actually very healthy, but then there's this outlier Slenesh and that was Rob's secondary reason, which was Slenesh is let's call it tilde a 70% win rate. So there's some events not counted. It's probably higher if you pull out the mirror matches where, where like in a mirror match it automatically knocks the win percentage to 50, right? Because one has to win, one has to lose, right? Yep. Okay. So it automatically drags the number down. It's probably in the 70s if you remove mirror matches and things like that, if you go through and clean up the statistics. And so what Rob advocated war was before was Tio should ban Slenesh is like this sign of, of look, this is really a problem and basically get GW to fix Slenesh. Okay. Okay. So, that's sort of the idea. All right. So how did, so as, so obviously I have been a long time defender of Slenesh. Okay. But here's what I'll say. The numbers to some extent do not lie. Okay. And like they're clearly very strong whether in the current meta. Go on. You have my attention. Okay. I turn you around here. Whether in the current meta or because of their actual rules being broken or because of their summoning being too strong. I don't, I don't care what it is for whatever reason they are performing exceptionally well above the curve. Right. Yep. However, the idea that we should engage in this sort of like top down control, what Rob is simultaneously advocating for two things I don't like. So Rob, I disagree with hashtag Banslenesh and here's, here's why, but I don't disagree with your principle and I'll explain how I square those two. One, you're advocating for a top down control. Go to all the TOs, get them to do this thing and take the power away from the players. That only stands to injure TOs who piss people off and injure players who don't get to play armies that they've spent potentially, you know, hundreds of hours laboring on and really have a deep love for. No one wins there. I understand you're saying let's all take this pain and so we can achieve this greater good, but that's the wrong way to go about it. Right. Appealing for other people to remove your fun, players will never like that. Okay. It's just not the right way to do it. I get it that it's, it's like a power play, but no, I'm not willing to engage in, in effectively warhammer terrorism. Right. Terrorism is when you try to make a big, bold move that will gain a lot of attention because there's a power imbalance between you and the people you're trying to strike terror into. I'm not being hyperbolic. I'm just describing the, that's why, that's how terrorism works. Right. And, and that's what this is. You know, the feeling is we as the community don't have the power to get them to change this. There's a power imbalance. So we've got to engage in this big strike. Right. That just like draws a bunch of attention right. All right. So I don't think that's the right answer. Uh, the, and yes, I'm being hyperbolic for everybody. Of course, I'm being hyperbolic. Don't take it too seriously here folks. Uh, but at the same time, I also don't like the idea of handing X number of people who are running tournaments the potential to lose people coming to their tournaments to building anger amongst the community and resentment away from players. So, here's, here's my actual answer. Okay. If you really believe this, then, and here's what I think. I had this, this, this solidifying in my mind this last weekend when I, when I sat down to play a game with my group, I had, you know, my normal friends come over to play a game and we were all thinking about what armies we wanted to play. And I was like, there's no way I want to play my slanage. It won't be fun for them. And the, the, that struck me very hard, right? That like, wow, the people who I play with will not have a fun time. They wouldn't stop playing, you know, in the game. They wouldn't have like turned around and been like, well, we're not going to hang out with you anymore or something like that. These are lifelong friends, right? But it would have just been a bad time for them. Right. So instead, I mean, I got out iron jaws and everybody, everybody had a good time. Right. It was actually a really fun game because we did a team of iron jaws and corn against two cities armies that were both focused on shooting, which was a great matchup. Right. It was super fun. Um, no doom. That is not what I just said. Uh, the, um, the, but that was a very stark realization for me. Right. Regardless of what I think that they can be played against, people play against me and beat me. Right. And I know I was, was playing these, this army at least competently. Um, it's, it doesn't matter because if it's not a fun play experience, it's not a fun play experience. And ultimately, I don't, I don't care about the tournament scene or tournament win percentages. I don't care not at all because that is whatever it is. Look, if you go to a tournament, you know what you're taking, you're entering a semi competitive environment. And if you're one of the 10 people who go to a tournament with your eye on the prize of taking first place, right? You had the opportunity to do that. Then, then you knew what the meta was and you, you know how to counter it. You're like the most competitive player around. Right. So you should be able to handle outliers and understand what the meta looks like. You are the most equipped person to deal with it. And like, yeah, if you face it and it sucks, I'm sorry. Okay. What I'm concerned with is everybody else. Everybody else who's at that tournament who isn't aiming for the top and who has a bad game, everybody else in their local game who's going to a shop and having a terrible time and having a not fun, not interactive thing, which is what the army will simply encourage. Like that is a, just a fact. Right. The way the army plays is a pretty non-interactive experience. That is absolutely true. Okay. So here's my solution. I'm not going to play my slanesh army. And I would encourage you, if you're a competitive player, if you consider yourself a competitive player and you have a slanesh army, put them on the shelf like me. Okay. If you want to still run your slanesh, do what I saw some people doing in the slanesh chat, which is making like an all mortal force. Right. Like making it all out of cast warriors and cast knights and chariots. Cool. No keepers of secrets, right? Stuff like that. That seems well more fair. Right. By the way, I'm not telling you you have to do this or you should do this. I'm inviting you to join me in this. Nothing more, nothing less. You're not a bad person if you keep playing your well-tuned army. You do you. What I can say is, I'm sure in most cases I probably spent more time painting my army than you did. I probably have owned my army longer than you did. Right. And I like, it's hard to judge your aesthetic love of the thing, but slanesh is in my soul. So we're at least on equal footing there if this is your army of choice. So what I'm saying is I understand your pain. Okay. And it sucks. It sucks if you if to put it up on the shelf. But it's the right answer because if we who are competitively minded just make the choice on our own. And say, we're not going to play them until this gets fixed. That makes a statement. Now, if you still want to take them, I'm not judging you. You play what you play. The rules, the rules, it's all legal. There's absolutely zero judgment. You're not a bad person. You're not doing a bad thing. Okay. This is what a lot of dock players last year did this, by the way. I don't know if you guys know that or not. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like, if you'll go back in the stats, you'll actually see a number of the dock like winds dried up and it wasn't because they stopped being good. But it dried up for a variety of reasons, part of which is that I know in the dock chat, a lot of the dock players just felt bad and were bored. And so they like, so the answer was they shelved it or played like non-optimal lists. Yeah. If you're a competitive player, if you really think you're a competitive player, if you really think you've got chops, now I'll turn to the slightly jokie part, but it's also somewhat if you're really a competitive player, prove it. Prove it. Don't take the easy road. Okay. Like, you know what's Lanesh is capable of. You've seen how it acts in the current meta. Win with something that is more challenging. Really, it is questioning your stats. There was a drop in the meta percentage really, and I'll say that much for sure over that time period, but why, the meta percentage did drop. That did happen in LV stats, but like, sure, I also agree, like I'm sure there's plenty of people who kept it. And by the way, I would expect the same thing to happen here. This isn't a thing about judgment, this isn't a thing about that. I don't want anybody to have the feel beds. What I want is for the maximum amount of us to enjoy their games that we can. And we have to take some responsibility for, for our own, for our own community. So this is my way of saying it. Now, look, in less than a week, I'm taking a thousand points in my slowness to a tournament. Okay. That's, that was my very next question of, so because I don't have a choice. I do a different army. No, I built this army for that tournament. It's a team tournament. You and I built a board, built a narrative, built everything for this thing. Okay. I was already committed to taking them. And I actually reached out to the to discuss this. I've been said, it's fine. Don't worry about it. It's fine to bring it. Right. And what if you, what if you like, here you go, Vince, you only ever summon one thing per turn. I mean, I can, I can, I don't know if I'm whatever, whatever I can figure out what I want to do with that. But the point is, is that like, yes, I'm still taking that to that tournament because, because I already committed to doing it. It's the list. I built a display board. I spent months before that, when I was playing the game. I never left out getting hold of it. Honestly, in horse. We each plot out. A thousand point force and we build an army over the intervening six four six, eight months, whatever, literally for this turn, we do it every year. It's something I really enjoy. But I'm not playing any games. I'm not taking it to any future tournaments, until this gets fixed, you can think I'm hypocritical for doing that one thing, that's what I'm saying but there you go okay so I invite you to take a different force if I had a second display board and a second force I would take it but I built all this to be with Tom to go to our army I mean you could do iron jaws and I could take a city's army a dwarf city's army we could talk about it I'm not opposed to it honestly part of it is what I'm not I just I really wanted Steve to see this army like I'm proud of it aesthetically and this is a hobby focus tournament and I've spent a lot of years on a lot of time on the hobby I do want to take my night on I'm not gonna lie I've spent all this time on it yeah and I get that that's painful right but I'm not go like there are other tournaments coming up I'm going to I'm not taking them okay I did take them off the table for this and but if you want to keep playing them keep playing them but I invite you to join me and challenge you if you're competitive to do so that takes time sometimes you've got to get a different army I get it if it's the only thing you've got in the rotation or it's the thing you really love or it's what lights the fire in your engine then play it and feel good about it but I would ask GW to make some corrections because it is creating a negative play experience so there you go that's my response to hashtag Banslenesh right and that's how I genuinely feel about it I I hope you don't think I'm a bad person for these for saying this but that's what it is right I welcome your comments your thoughts your feedback I don't think banning is the right answer I think it only creates feel bads across the board and I'm not willing to engage in that kind of like strong arming to get our way because a lot of people would get hurt by that who have no knowledge or interest in this movement of what's going on and I'm not interested in car to implement like yeah it's hard to cut it's hard to implement some type of comp across the board that it's going to be not only like that's not also going to generate feel bads especially for players who are completely oblivious to the conversation that's going on and then rolling up to an event and be like why is this this way the last demon in Pandora's box was hope and that is what doomed the world okay like opening the Pandora's box of comp is the hope that you will just oh we'll do better okay then it's just gonna lead to a bunch of messy messy mess which is what it was before back in the old days where we had this stuff all over the place so I don't want to go down that road I have no interest in it I like that we all have a relatively even playing field it's an advantage that we all use the same language and have the same game verbiage and basically the same game stuff but yes that's thank you re-rolling ones jack said hashtag shelve slanesh I like it jack I like it a lot that's the hashtag shelve your slanesh absolutely shelve slanesh that's the right answer if you as a player willing to do it then do what I did I'm not gonna be playing them in any of my games my friends I took them off the table for all my future tournaments next year that's not what I was so there you go so you're saying put slanesh back in the prison yeah look they want to be they here's what I'll say if you still got problems about this with the emotion of your army slanesh likes it when they've got it when they've got a weight anyways right it's it's it's delayed pleasure which is what slanesh is all about so there you go really it's a good response really and it's a good response but there you go so okay we done with that one we is that is that a good enough conversation on that I mean are you done I'm done as I said I don't want to talk about slanesh it's fair enough well hopefully because of this we won't have to talk about them anymore for a while right but we'll see I mean hopefully the next time we have to talk about them is whenever when the rules get adjusted and then we'll be like yay things got fixed so and everybody can be happy great okay cool cool cool cool cool great alright Tom well that was a long that was a very long news slash other current events section so Tom I want to get to the pick of the week and this is I want you to start us off because this is a similarly important issue that I really want to get people's attention on the pick of the week yeah yeah yeah so I'm friend of the show scrubby and Wells Tyler Emerson announced on Facebook today that he is selling a number of things I mean basically everything right right he's basically liquidating his his hobby stuff for Warhammer not necessarily because he was passionate about wanting to get rid of all of it but just simply he's he there's some personal stuff that needs to be out with and so he's selling a stuff to kind of recoup some cost and so I want to we're gonna share his Twitter and I want to encourage you to go look at the list of stuff that's on sale it's a Google Doc and and help a brother out so that he has a lot of stuff for sale he's a good dude it's painted wonderfully check it out now just may make a quick note about that painted wonderfully yeah almost all of his stuff was commissioned painted by really high-end commission painters who like this wasn't a rush job his army is both of his armies everything he's done is is that he's had commissioned is gorgeous so like if you are looking to pick stuff up and want really beautiful figs it is a worthwhile investment this isn't quote unquote propane it off of eBay right like this is really beautiful stuff like this is like display case stuff a lot of it is yes not everything but a lot of it is all of it all of it is very high tabletop at minimum yes yeah yes yeah now that's the first thing I would say is go check it out find something and buy it now if you're like me and have shells full of stuff and you're like man I would just love to buy more stuff and I'd love to help a brother out but I just don't have room for this stuff I would encourage you to be like you know a lot of people on that Twitter thread who have decided to buy things from Tyler and send him the money for those things but just tell him you know what Tyler I need you to hold on to that for a couple years or Tyler I need to hold you hold on that indefinitely for me I can't store it here I agree so I would exhort you all to go find something and help a brother out yep if you feel that you've got the means to do that reach out and buy a thing from Tyler for Tyler buy him back a tree lord or something or a unit of liberators or whatever it is and yes a lot of people said that where they're like well buy this thing but you keep it I want you to have this thing I'm not gonna re-gift it back to you or whatever the best was like Ben Johnson who's like I'm gonna buy your core rule book but I'm gonna need you to hold on to it for a couple years and read it every week for me right so either way if you if you want to pick up the stuff he is selling it you don't you can just literally buy it and that's fine that's a good investment it's quality stuff but if you want to go that route to Tyler is obviously one of the nicest most genuine honest fantastic people I have met in this hobby I consider him a true friend almost every tournament I've gone to that he's in he has called me on the road both to and from and we've spent probably three or four hours just talking warhammer and life and he is just an amazing human being and anything we can do to help him he is one of the really good people in life for those that have asked about a GoFundMe I have I am not promoting a GoFundMe simply because he is very explicitly asked not to right so this is our this is our workaround yeah he has let's be clear he is very clearly asked to not do a GoFundMe and so I'm saying that's fine Tyler we will honor your wishes and not do a GoFundMe so instead everybody just buy his stuff send the money to him and then tell him to keep it right that's the easy way we get sneaky with it right so we're gonna we're gonna trick him into this GoFundMe I'm gonna follow the rules right he said very clearly he didn't want to go that direction okay fine and so I'm gonna encourage everybody to go buy something from him and then just have him not ship it to there you go uh my uh my pick of the week uh we mentioned it a few times already but uh just I'll formally put the link down there the stats show is back it was a lot of fun stuff uh and it like most of it was very good news that's what I will say like it's pretty actually awesome to see how even a lot of the meta is how much the tournaments are growing how many people are giving results into LLV so it was fantastic so I'll link that down there below very worthwhile watch big big big giant thank you to LLV I don't think he's watching right now but if he is thank you very much for your watching in the future thank you buddy for doing all this hard work and to Rob for hosting it and doing the show I think it's wonderful and it celebrates uh a lot of great things that are clearly going on as AOS is just it's it's building we're getting more events we're getting a better more competitive meta and I I hope we just continue to see that grow so there you go we're about to have four books flood into the meta so we'll see how uh how that works out like I have no idea what this is even going to look like to stabilize oh yeah we've got months until we know what this all looks like yes because we're getting four books we're getting a rapid infusion into the meta here real fast so things are going to get uh as Elvis would say all shook up uh-huh yeah like I just it's just crazy like it's just uh it's I don't know how anybody can even pretend to predict what the actual meta is going to look like when all this is done so that's what I'm gonna say yep uh all right so let's talk to some hobby time Tom you got that army done yet we got like two weeks until this tournament yep uh I've posted uh some glimpses of it uh earlier and I finished my last model tonight like as we show so I got my uh my my uh purple sun done see purple sun very scary yes he is scary um yeah I can't wait for that to rebound on me and kill my own people it's gonna be so great uh you know it's just some health striders whatever you'll be fine um you have like six models in your army uh true I have 14 models in that army that's not a lie I mean am I wrong no I have 14 models a thousand points 14 models um yeah so uh yeah so the knight hunter done I posted a brief comment on twitter about them um and uh I mean they're not done done but they're like tournament done um yeah yeah uh I'll probably try to get some army photos up in the next like full you know army photos uh at some point I don't know when um but yeah it's cut that's really come together I'm real real real stoked and in fact like I've already laid out um my stuff for my adepticon um like so the next big push ironically is my team's event for adepticon right my next big hobby push um I don't know that we're ready to announce who our four person team is but it's so hot this should be exciting it's so hot I don't know what to say it's so hot it is so hot right now so I um it's gonna be an amazing event and I'm looking forward to to to rockin the team's event at acon this year with my with my teammates yeah I'm sad I don't get to play in this but you know I am sad as well we would love to add you but I'm not gonna lie I'm really happy with our fourth you definitely upgraded but that's okay so by the way the purple sun somebody said what sound does the purple sun make it makes the same sound as little gul at the end of like buffy from that production so it's like our sound it makes yeah that's legitimate that's legitimate yeah for myself in my hobby time I am finishing up this guy Tom obviously can't see it but this is my steam tank commander with his thermal rider cloak and his flying steam tank uh he's mostly painted there's a some finishing work and a lot of weathering and stuff to do on him uh his base is back behind me but he'll be flying kind of at an angle over some some terrain uh so that's my steam tank commander for my tempest eye army for whirlwind's edge uh the general on griffin is back there we'll see some of this stuff tonight when we look at conversions speaking of conversions is a good segue because i am so excited for this army like i finished up my gyrocopter with i shared which i shared out there it's up there and i just i'm loving everything about this army and making it it's every every piece being a bespoke conversion from just stuff is like so much fun so yeah flying steam tank and i know what the walking steam tanks are going to be because i'm going to do two more of those which would be good you know everybody should have seven steam tanks i think that's that's almost the right number uh you really have like a problem um did you just cotton on to this now yeah like i i i mean i i don't know how i didn't catch it before but well i keep it so well hidden yeah yeah absolutely no but it's it's a good transition into conversions because this army that i'm working on is a completely converted army right yeah uh and as well so is your current army yeah um so i thought we'd start we've got some photos queued up with some of our favorite conversions we've done over the time um and i'll kind of bring those up and down as we go but i i wanted to start by just kind of saying like let's talk about the why okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so why do conversions because i i think almost every army i've done has featured some conversions but some of them are pretty minimal right like i'll often do some head swaps if i like certain heads better or weapon swaps if i like the look of certain weapons better or something like that right like my daughter's a cane were pretty straight but i didn't use any of the mask heads for like the sisters i used all witch elf heads and all you know that kind of thing right that's a super minimal conversion right that's just like that is as minimal as it gets because i liked the look but why do you convert like why even do it uh i found it's really interesting i found that i am not interested in an army like i have no buy-in until i have like a concept and like i actually struggled with this really hard with my daughter's army like i and i didn't realize it was going to be a thing so like when i did like to jump back so when i first did my goblin army like so let me say this way i did my high elves that was my first thing that i started painting and like i was just super lethargic on that like i was doing everything stock and it was just uh i didn't make progress also because high elves are naturally boring and awful just stop it um there were lots of detail but in general like i wanted him to look like of the high elves and i did that and but i didn't i wasn't able to make it like deep into the army and then i did my goblins my forest goblins and like i blew through a bunch of models um but it was all converted so all of it was like personalized all of it was like handcrafted and it was just it like it was a project it was a labor of love and then i went on to my nergo army and i like i got my nergo army done and i had some pretty significant conversions in there um but in general um a lot of it was stock um but so i lost interest uh like a lot of stuff that i still have to paint like it's just you know like stock stuff uh and then i did my big ko project my big ko dwarf project and i just painted like all the models like all the everything um my fire slayer my like so all of my ko stuff was converted all of my fire slayers were fairly stocked and i petered out on the fire slayer army again like a lot of it's like semi-painted on the shelf or like partially painted um and then i'm on to this night haunt like so i started when i was starting my current project i saw that say like i i noticed i lose momentum and i'm not as interested in projects when i'm not when it's not like handcrafted converted uh and with my night haunt like i was dragging my feet and was just so uninterested in them until i i realized like the hook which was the death elves like dru chi like wanting to tie that in and bring that like concept to life and so as soon as like and maybe for me it's like when i feel like i have something to add yeah to the hobby world i have motivation yeah so like with the ko like i wanted to get it out there because i wanted to give birth to this vision and i was motivated to do that and like the same thing with my my goblins and the same thing with these night haunt is that like i i have a vision of like what i want this army to be and how i want it to function and the aesthetic that i want to carry into my my out of the death stuff and into my my the city like armies associated with it and stuff like that so like a lot of it has to do with motivation and passion and like birthing a vision that's original yeah um yeah no i agree there's a pretty famous like behavioral economics experiment where they sort of had a group of college students assemble little lego men and they're like will pay you a quarter pulled per lego men and you can just do it as long as you want right and we'll keep paying you and or some maybe it's a nickel per lego man doesn't matter some amount of money per lego man right maybe it's five cents colleges don't have a lot of money and uh and then they said but we're going to take them all apart later and what they found in the experiment was that if they disassembled the lego men in front of the people like if it was literally like person assembles the lego man gets their payment and then that the the inter the interviewer the conductor of the experiment then just took the lego man apart right in front of them they assembled a lot less okay even though it's a stock lego man and there's nothing about it humans naturally attach a lot of it we invest a lot of psychological utility into things we create ourselves right it's one of the key fundamentals of this hobby and why like you're never going to have prepainted gw miniatures because assembling your miniature and painting your miniature invests you in the hobby and in the miniature right it's yours that's your thing you did it you assembled it you painted it you own it it has a higher value to you than anyone else's miniature in the world even though it's exactly the same thing right so they're when you then convert it it adds an extra layer on top of that right because it's not like everybody else's sequitur or everybody else's hex rate or whatever whatever right yep and so I think it does do that at the same time I think the that's sort of the kind of the semi-subconscious motivation aspect of it right at the same time I think you hit on like the realization that you get an idea and you want to realize something right like when you have a vision and I think certain armies are more suited to this than others like cities is one of those books that's super suited to this right right where you can just run off in a direction and and and you can make this thing your own you can tell your own story you can truly like form these units into something that fits a different vision you had of them you know my tempest eye army here this whirlwind's edge the city I made I thought of the whole narrative for the city how it existed how it ran what it was like and then that was like okay well then that's what all these units are going to be there these heavily machine-driven units it's all mechanical right and all this like sort of group of this city of scientists and alchemists and inventors right who run on this eternal power they have with this static whirlwind that blows around their city at all points in time right yep and so the being able to then bring that to life has just been like a lot of fun uh Tom has to go deal with a child I suspect so so I'll talk for a little more um yeah and I think skeleton brought up a good point in the comments they will address I don't think there's anything wrong with going on the model straight like there's absolutely nothing wrong with that the first keeper of secrets I did you can insert any other model here whatever um I assembled it straight because it to me was so aesthetically pleasing and beautiful and wonderful and perfect it was perfection it was what I had wanted for all of my hobby life like since I first picked up the army in 2006 and so I didn't feel I need to convert it but when I did the later ones I started converting them right because I have multiple keepers and I started converting them because it was more fun and that's generally the true they're like the first Gorgon I ever assembled I did him straight up out of the kit because that was fun but then later I just started like randomly converting you know because it was more fun to do so same with rat ogres and everything else and we'll see a bunch of examples when we look at some photos in fact while Tom is waiting let's look at some photos shall we let's do that team how's that sound uh I'm going to bring up well this is one of Tom's photos one of his converted things but well since Tom's not here we'll skip past his stuff there we go we'll skip past all Tom stuff for a moment because I don't want to talk about Tom stuff without it so like things like this like when I got the the RK on kit I was in the middle of a zeech army Tom you have a picture over your face now on the screen because I brought this up to give an example I was talking about and so I had this zeech army and I knew I wanted RK on to lead it but I didn't want it to be just like standard RK on I wanted to be a zeech RK on and zeech famously had the multi-headed dragon and so I was like okay so I got this vision of what RK on sort of in his zeechian aspect would look like right and so I started chopping up the RK on kit um and adding dragon heads and you know he has the storm cast head like all of my zeech knights do because I I argue still into this day and always will that the storm cast death mask would look it just looks way better on uh way better on zeech mortals than it does on storm cast it just feels like an emotionless you know that kind of like emotionless metal mask that's so zeech right we're like it's all cold logic and calculation and math and stuff right um and so anyway this was like and I love this conversion I was so proud of it and happy with it for how it came out because it was it was a huge amount of time and effort um for for a time like this was the first really big kit I had converted right I remember when you're like I just cut into a $180 model right or whatever it cost you I was like well no turning back now yeah just started chopping stuff up like well I guess this is how this looks now so hope it works out and and there is an element of fear there so maybe that's a that's a good transition Tom let's talk about conversion fear for a moment shall we yep yep so you've got a vision again nothing wrong with not converting but let's say you've got a vision and you want to do some conversions yeah um a lot of people I think one of the things I hear is like well I'm afraid I would ruin the model people say that about paint jobs and it doesn't make any sense because paint can always be just painted again you can just paint over it you can't ruin things with paint that's not how paint works um and I'm a huge advocate of that you can always paint over it or just strip it at worst but with conversions you're actually changing the model right so how do you get over the uh how do you get over the uh the answer lv is hashtag shelve slanesh you can go back and watch the part where I talked about it uh at any rate how do you get over the fear like what's your answer start cutting okay just get into it yeah like so the reality is that like I'm never not afraid I'm gonna ruin something or like I'm never not afraid that I'm not like something's not gonna look bad sure uh because because like it's always there like I am in the process of cutting heads off of dread spears right now okay now I didn't know if it was gonna work like they had what I wanted and I had enough of the models that I'm like oh no those are going to be the bodies I'm gonna use right um but like they have hair like the heads are molded into the body and like they have hair dangling down so like not only do I have to cut the head off but I have to like scrape around right and move things out um and but my first concept model like and so the short answer is you're gonna do mass conversions what you do is you try it with one model right and I get this to look good once well and that's good for like infantry and stuff things you're gonna do multiple of yes yes um for but for big monsters uh I mean you just have to uh console yourself that there's always green stuff sure he can always he can always green stuff things yes like you know if you really botch a conversion job uh just look at as an opportunity to develop your green stuff skills now let me just say that's been my plan and I'm still terrible at green stuff and the reason why is that I've never had to really use it sure like I've always just planned on like oh I'm gonna have to learn green stuff this doesn't go well but I mean I'm I'm what four years into this and I'm it it's still it goes well like get a knife get um there there is a one tip that I will give um and this doesn't work with all models but if you're using all like GW plastic models and I know Vince doesn't use this and he's like he's probably gonna get all uh snooty about this um but uh I love um there's there's actually a type of glue that covers all sins um especially when you're doing cutting like cutting and um and like putting things where they're not normally supposed to be right um and it's the uh the liquid cement for plastic models that testers does or like liquid weld I think they call it it's the type of glue that melts models together right um so like like I found that when I don't have perfect fits and I use this like it just it like it'll help soften the area and mold the plastic to each other right you kind of apply a little bit let it sit there on the joint for a little while and soften and you kind of push them together let it it'll stick because you've pushed it in a soft plastic and then before it's completely cured you can then work it together more because it's now softened to both sides of the joint and you can actually like force a rather large gap to come together because you literally push the plastic into each other the other perk of this this well by the way the plastic well is that uh like they never come apart right sure like uh I like so and as an example I've been using some dread spears and I had gotten some off ebay like years and years ago and I'm like I wonder and so I just grabbed it and like twisted and the joints just broke because I wanted to do weapon swaps and I was like oh look it's old and brittle you know like the glue is old and brittle it just pops apart anything I use that plastic weld on that's not how that works because it like it entangles the plastics together like they don't just break apart yeah yeah you know I'm all about it I use revel myself so that's this yep that's the blue and yellow bottle here I have it up on my screen that's what I use also though I made myself slurry so slurry is when you take like some Tamiya thin plastic glue I'm holding this up to the screen so people can see it I took an old glass bottle this was a an FW like dollar roundy ink bottle that I used all the ink out of right washed out the bottle and then I filled it up like I don't know about that much with like a finger or something of thin extra thin plastic cement from Tamiya which is this stuff and then I took a bunch of sprue bits and cut them into little tiny pieces and dumped them all in here and just let it sit for like a day and then just stirred it around and it's now this like really gross gray slurry but it still has the properties of plastic glue but it has fill in it it will gap fill as well so after you assemble it will actually like it will melt and fill simultaneously it's really awesome for that kind of stuff yeah good idea so uh I'll probably do a video about that at some point and actually like show people how to make it the the actual like ratio because I played around with ratios a few times and like this is an old scale model or trick but it's just one of those things that we don't often hear about in our world but man is it awesome especially for stuff like where I found it to be really awesome is when you have you ever have those models where it's uh this happens a lot especially older models where they were fashioned with like each half of the leg is one piece and you like you put the two legs together and on a lot of older models they weren't hiding that joint with armor plates or something right it would just be like a natural leg with a with a just now I got this big seam line in the middle and like you can sand and stuff like that but and whatever but like that does really well you just kind of you use the plastic glue normally you fast them together then you run some of that over the top and boom it's gone nice um but yeah things like perfect putty green stuff for your friend perfect putty is this stuff right here come here there it is sorry perfect plastic putty this is from deluxe master this stuff perfect plastic putty you can also just use the regular plastic putty from the lejo and all that kind of stuff so all those things are good they're your they're your friends uh when you're doing that sorry putting it back up on my hobby shelf anyway um yeah I and I agree so here's here's what I'd say about how to lose the fear one you're right prototyping excellent plan right get one done can you do one when you're when you're you know if you lose one spear dude or something or you got you got one funky looking spear dude okay right right that's fine um but for bigger things prior planning prevents poor performance right sure so like before you start cutting take the take the kind of pieces and just kind of dry fit them together uncut and see like is this going to be roughly about the same size is this going to roughly fit right and then slowly when you cut don't go deep on the first strike right like if you're trying to let's say you're trying to like scrape away to fit a new piece up against it remove very little at a time dry fit how's the fit okay a little more cut it that you know shave the angle a little more fit it up shave the angle a little more fit it up by working more by like doing the complete plan before cutting and then slowly building toward it yeah you actually can like then get to a place where you're you lower the risk a lot right yep yeah that's good um I go slow you know another thing that people don't think about often is uh like whether their model is going to be balanced or not visually like when you begin to add things like what you're maybe not thinking about is like how that influences how things have to be painted oh sure and and like or that in proportion like those are the two things that you need to pay a lot of attention to sure is those are two things that one like it's really hard to get into a project after you done a major conversion and then realize that like what you've what you've added actually makes it harder to paint it well because of like from a color balance like color theory standpoint um and that's like that has bothered me on a couple of occasions where I've done something and then I've realized that like the way that I've like and this is particularly bad like if you're re like if you're rebasing something and I'll give an example uh a little bit later and like you're changing the way that like how the model's supposed to be dynamic yep uh what ends up happening is just that like you have to end up adding maybe other models or other things to help like rebalance it out like repositioning arms and stuff like that to make it visually feel right yep those are things that you may not be thinking about on conversion it's you ask like can I do this not should I do this well there's also the fact that because with conversions you often don't have the ability to work in sub assemblies in the same way right but you have to see if everything actually goes together and cut it all up and then glue it you can you can you get you're much more likely to get those like areas where it's hard to paint right because something had to be assembled and so now like there's not a lot of space to get your paintbrush in there so what I always try to do is like be mindful of that during the assembly phase and like if I'm trying to get a weird arm in a place with a big shield on it I'll like I'll have the arm more out right I'll reposition the arms I'm already converting anyways you could put the either put the shield like right up next to the body so there's no space and you can just ignore it basically right or I'll put it way out so they're kind of holding the shield you know up at an out angle it's that way I still have easy access to paint everything the point is like just think about things like that while you're doing it if you're already cutting stuff up why not make your life easier later right yeah relatedly the other thing that I that it's really easy to forget about is like proportion like proportionality matters and if you do something because you can like put a like I really like this weapon I'm going to give this guy a big weapon but it's out of proportion like you'll like it doesn't matter what kind of paint job it'll never feel right the model will always look heavy or the weapon will always look too small or like for me like some this bothers some people more than others it bothers me a whole lot so I just brought up a picture that drives Tom crazy to to to drive home sorry everybody I was switching to your pictures and then it went away this is oh and I agree somebody just mentioned that blue tack is your friend when dry fitting totally agree sorry everyone for like that little picture screw up there I don't want to have in the pictures just went away but so this is a doom bull I had created he's done out of like a storm fiend body and some of the gorgon like he has a gorgon shoulder pad and the chaos charioteers cloak and that head is the head off of Archeon's corn head which actually fits pretty well on a storm fiend body by the way because Archeon drogar's heads are actually rather small but the axes so I gave him like the full size bloodthirster axes which I know drives you nuts and he's double wielding them too I mean you asked me when you initially did this model what my thoughts were like as you were painting it and I gave you the same feedback that and it's that like man those axes are just it's it's silly like it's like a cartoon it's not like an actual model right this is very wow somebody said it's a it's a it's a wow he's got wow weapons and yes I agree this is very much like that yeah right and I just like I I'm not interested in that like it doesn't because I look at this in the model I don't care how beautiful it's painted those ice axes are beautiful they look terrible on him sure because it doesn't feel balanced um so for me it is a much larger issue than it is for Vince although I will say Vince has gotten a lot better over the years like he's really dialed back his his his cartoony weapon displays sure sure because it just doesn't appeal to me as much anymore but I will say I still do love that guy okay and you can love bad things we've talked about this before right and well that's I want to make that point which is like look if there's a conversion like that like that doomble for example if that's the kind of thing and like I really love that big doofy dumb head he's so much fun every time I have a bunch of doombles because they're all converted like I love converting doombles and uh they're not all like that they're not all insane but I've converted all of them and whenever I get them out on the table he's always the first one I grab because he makes me smile so much um but like if you've got a conversion and you really love it so what if other people don't like it this so when I posted my gyrocopter this last weekend right which is very very mechanical right and said you know this is my gyrocopter some portion of the responses I got were it doesn't feel like Aegis Sigma to me right it's not fantasy enough it's too it's too sci-fi right fair like and I'm not judgmental of that I would be I'd be like you do realize we're talking about helicopters and fantasy right look I understand KO blah blah blah lots of think it's been around forever and KO have you know sky ships and balloons full of you know magic cloud gas that lets them zip around the board at hyperspeed it's all good like I I am not judging your interpretation of the thing but don't let anybody else judge yours either right if you like the model and it fits in your army and your aesthetic then cool great because you've created something that's yours and you and that is always better right like don't let other don't let other people dictate what's cool or appropriate and by the way this can go a lot of directions um I hate I hate like people who want to be sort of lower gatekeepers of like that's not how that thing should or could or would look get out of here this is my army and my figures you own them you get to do with them what you want make your army your own right and don't let anybody else talk you out of that um like the the giant you know like I did a lot of conversions my orcs like I have I have orcs writing I don't have a picture of this but I have like and yes absolutely thank you thank you man Zach he said masters of the universe techno barbarians all day and that's exactly right like I grew up on fantasy where it was swords and nunchucks against laser guns and tanks that's all I'm saying thundercats oh so anyways um the uh you know like I put orcs on to the little bird dogs or whatever you know the from the paladar kit and and did all sorts of fun stuff like that because that's what I wanted my orcs to be you know um the so I think that like you have to be there's no correct level of conversion sure uh can we talk about the ranges of conversion and just like that's exactly where I was going to go yes to help people visualize what this looks like right um because like uh I sent you like three or four photos of my night haunt because I want to talk about like the full like scope of like it can be something very small and subtle that no one else notices like conversions don't have to be garish and weird right absolutely they can be very subtle um and technically like in paint judging for events like that that take this stuff into account um often comes up on checklists yes the conversions yeah the conversions and it can be something small and simple to like help put your model in that world um can you pull up my uh my my like my inventory night haunt you guys I sure can um I like it's like three in a row maybe and then a rider together yes I got him so we have the we have two chain rasps a banshee and your your uh the guy on half a horse yep yep yep yep yep um okay so let's talk about what we see here um and the irony here is that I sent these to you and I don't have them in front of me and I can't actually see them because of the delay let me pull it up real quick on my email that they're they're coming up right now there you go if you're watching live now you see them yeah I see them okay here we go uh so the uh so what's so fascinating about this is that like the conversion tier are fairly subtle can you zoom in at all uh yeah so yeah and as uh LLV is observed these basically are all just weapon swaps right because you've gotten like you might not even notice really some of it right like so you want to talk about the banshee because that's the one that I think is is is interesting you want to talk about her real quick like they're all interesting I'm just saying like she's super subtle people might not even know so right so what I did was um like I wanted the problem with night haunt the beauty of the problem is that they're almost all monopos like the entire army is monopos and um it's really hard to like other than doing something with paint schemes to like reposition or to like mess with them right yep um and so like what I and when I realized that I wanted to do the dark elf thing what I realized is that I just need to go in and like just convert things and add the pieces that I want to make them feel like they're coming out of like elfy graves rather than out of um other graves um and I decided to do that primarily with the my monopos is with weapons yep so on the banshee I took a witch elf dagger they had these like really thin stilettos um and I gave her a witch elf dagger uh now the like that choice of witch elf dagger for me was intentional right yep because uh like banshees are females female elves and so like witch elves like I wanted it to feel in theme and so like that is the type of weapon that they would have would be a witch elf dagger um but when I positioned it it was a curved dagger I had to be really careful to make sure the movement of the model like fit with how the the weapon was sitting sure does that make sense it does yeah I'm talking about mr headdress writer over here because he's really cool too I think with that nice nice change there yeah uh so if for anybody that knows dark elves they just have these crazy like head pieces yeah they do on the helms um and so I wanted to call back to that with all of my my my my guys like all like if like all the the cold one nights have these crazy head pieces um and so um I grabbed this one and staple it to him and he had a big long sword and so I lopped off in the end there's actually a weapon swap on him as well he uses the executioner sword um but but I had to be careful about like it's huge like that head piece is huge and so making sure like it didn't throw off the balance of the model itself or like where the eye was being drawn right no and I think it works well in his case because it actually it the lines of it and the curves of it actually fit well with the rest of the model right but that's the point is like finding the right head piece I had a whole bunch of those head pieces right um but finding the right head piece that like fit with the model no not literally stapled somebody asked in the comments did you literally staple it no you didn't literally safely go ahead I'm sorry um but uh and then uh and then just for the other two guys I did weapon swaps and I and so one of the reasons why by the way I did dark elves is that dark elves had this really interesting stylized skull yeah on on a lot of their stuff and so what I wanted to do was I wanted to accentuate that in the army to make it feel like this like deathy army and to and to give a different feel to an image that's always been the same right right and so like if you look at like the one chain rasp on the right the weapon that I chose for the chain rasp it's like that has a very ghosty feel on both the axe and on the sword yep um and so like you look at that sword and you look at that axe and you think oh that could fit in a death army and that's part of the point is that like I wanted it to feel very natural and a lot of people would see this and not see that a weapon swap has ever even been done right and I think yeah so and that's the point there's a there is a gamut here you can you can run in between uh very minor up to pretty extreme uh let's let's talk about your like to the point where you're literally building it out of basically bits into a new model I want to talk about your lumen arc okay yeah so I'm going to jump over to your lumen arc here um and in the middle we can like some of your other KO I'll just I'll just hand on them for a moment just to say these guys are kind in the middle where you've kind of mixed in fire slayer bits and KO bits and dwarfy bits to make these guys and you can see how there's the different elements of everything like you even you even pulled like the heish battle mage bit or whatever right that's what the little navigator thing is so just little tiny pieces like that that may come fit in there's lots of ways to go up there where you're mixing some heads and some different pieces and some different elements or the other end of the spectrum something like this which is your lumen arc so talk about this guy for a moment because this guy's fun I'm going to zoom in on him a little bit so we can see him a little more clearly yeah so the lumen arc like I wanted a chariot that felt very techie right yep um and a big piece of the army that I put together was using the sector of mechanical strain yep and so I went I need to build some type of platform like it needs to not be it needs to not be a ship but it needs to feel like it's in the same universe and so what I did was I grabbed some sector of mechanical strain turned it sideways which this is the same base piece by the way I'm using for my steam tank so yeah yeah yeah totally um and so what I did was um with this guy is that uh so I just took the like the terrain turned it on its side um grabbed turbines uh out of the same kit yeah out of the same kit and put them on the side like little I joke that this is like my serenity ship right it has the same like little like duck look um little mechanical ducky I'm showing everybody on the screen right now where this these pieces come out of the alchemy stack there you go yep yep yep yeah uh and then I used uh the frigate balloon in the endrin in the rear endrin um and then uh for the actual uh for the actual turret though what I wanted to do was um I went and got the turret off of the uh so that's an ironclad turret and I was kind of messing around with it to see like what I could do to get it to work um and like so what you don't see there is that that turret actually is fully like it fully rotates right because what I did was I grabbed one of the pieces that like that slot end like one of the sector mechanical pieces it's like a fan or whatever that like slots into that coupling there and I used it as the base of the turret right right and I magnetized it and so like that's that whole turret is fully rotatable or because it's a magnet holding it together and likewise I can pull that off and put the bits for a hurricane there and so like that's what people haven't seen of this is that like I can take the same piece pull the turret off and put a hurricane thing and make this a hurricane right right yep it's a it's a good it's a good piece it's a good swap uh and then obviously it still uses the lenses of the lumen arc so like it's very clear that it has that signifier and I think that's one of the keys right when I think about very heavy scale conversions what I always focus on is does it still have like the representational components that make it recognizable in some way so like with that with this the recognizable thing of the lumen arc is the lumen arc lenses that make the big laser beam right that's that's the defining thing that separates it from something like the hurricane so everything else around that can be very different right right oh that and the wizard like uh technically you're supposed to have a wizard on there which is why I have the navigator on top not anymore you could you can just have a lumen arc without a wizard but sure um but at any rate the the point being is that like that's why like with my steam tank commander I put a big cannon on the bottom and have a little gun up on the top right because the defining features of that model are it has a big cannon and it has a machine gun those are the two things it has right um and so I always try to like I always try to make sure like if I'm swapping weapons the weapons are still reasonable facsimiles for that weapon right so if they have a great weapon do a great weapon right yeah don't give him like some one-handed thing in a shield right so like if if you've got if you've got a guy if you're trying to mimic great sorts or something okay yeah and you put big two-handed axes on in some of their hands or big two-handed halberds or something like that in their hands great I okay cool right they're all big two-handed choppy weapons I get it that's like at the level this game operates at those are all mechanically I'm on the level right I see what's going on there yeah right um um so like I think that having some kind of like defining feature is a key yeah and I really like this conversion I thought it was a lot of fun obviously it inspired me because I was when I was starting to scheme out and prototype the the the whirlwinds edge army I reached out to you and I was like hey what pieces did you use for that and I was trying to like look everything up because I knew I had a bunch that I just had to go find it you made a wise decision absolutely absolutely no 100% um the other thing I would say is so that's let's talk about how you actually convert other things into sort of like counts as type of stuff right okay yeah because I think you can also so you what I what I want to specifically talk about here is kind of the question you asked me right uh the other day when we were talking about a potential conversion so so walk us through that one because I think this is an interesting thing a lot of people will run into as cities yeah so I was um I was uh trying to figure out um I wanted to like I don't mind I'll spoil it um so I'm wanting to I was wanting to do executioners right yep and um but I I wanted to use basically all of Phoenix Garden right you want like Phoenix Yard bodies I wanted the body's the stances they're like the fiery stuff like I wanted all of that um you know I was gonna do head swaps and all that stuff but the question was is you know is it enough to do the fire is it enough to just like as an executioner to basically do head swaps and paint schemes and with the same how birds and call them executioners it's still a great weapon you know like if you read the executioners executioners real draughts drakes dr a i c h sure what is that a big giant I mean traditionally it's a big giant great sword but yes right but that's what I'm saying like it doesn't say how birds like I know what a halberd is is it the and so like so how do we visualize this and like what what kind of a conversion is enough you know like um another example that I was wrestling with is that like I'm doing an eternal guard unit okay and like literally my eternal guard are dread spears with skeleton heads because that looks like an eternal guard right eternal have spear shields and these guys have our skeletons so they're eternal guards I get it it's a good pun it thanks yeah I thought so too um but like like but in all practicality I look at it and go it it's it's just a head swap you know like I'm using the same arms and shields and everything well no you keyed in on something I think is really important there they're like yes sometimes with minimal conversions you can still do it as long as one you're consistent two it can be minimal but three the paint scheme right like your army has that your building has this very you know dark elf drakey focus right yeah and the uh and and so bringing them into that and making the paint scheme not look like what we would perceive as Phoenix Guard but making it looks like it fit in the rest of the army and when you go along and you don't you don't have it in army with Phoenix Guard nobody's getting confused right your army is just like these are the executioners in the army right and there's no other it's still clear enough it's infantry it's the correct size it's the right it's an elf you've painted it to be that dark scheme like a dark elf type of looking execution what we would imagine they look like you've given them a skull face like the classic skull mask of the executioner so there's still that signifier right yeah the other thing is that to make sure that like yes but and here's the exception is to make sure that you're actually not you're not actually playing in um like that you're not including the other units that they could be confused with right that's another big big piece of this is that like if you're going to use all dread spears with head swaps don't put don't put dread spears in the army right right right yeah right be consistent yes absolutely yep yeah no i think that's a good point um and so i think like those kind of unit things are going to be very popular especially now especially with like in the cities where people had a lot of models that you know potentially aren't around anymore and they want to find uses for them in the current uh model range right and i don't as i said before and we'll say again i i really have no problem with that at all and think it should be largely encouraged if you're actually investing the time the paint the scheme you know you're not you're not just like picking up your unit phoenix yard and being like well i guess these are great towards now right and that's it like that's not that's this is a concept brought real through like some kind of thoughtful application of paint and and modification of the model um the other thing i want to so so yes agreed completely um for me one of the other elements that i want to really dig into here is when you're converting to theme okay yep yep uh i think one of the most powerful things you can do is across the army convert to a a singular theme okay so sieve herner famously has a lot of armies where he's done this because he's a he's a madman when it comes to conversions in the best way classically he had his rats and hats which was or his like his sort of pirates of penchant scaven where they all had big you know feathery hats and some of them had you know different different other signifiers of the the empire right right because he made the army back during old warhammer fantasy battle days he has his like doom knights of sigmar where he's put these big green flowing lustrous dr doom cloaks on all of them right yep and so i think those kind of like conversions to a theme across the army uh actually are one of the most powerful things you can do with conversion because whenever you've got a uh a particular idea and you can execute it across the whole army it suddenly makes the entire force your own not just that fig your own right right and what you i think the important part there is the same rule applies plan from the beginning because you're not always going to be able to carry the same exact conversion across every element of the army right yeah so a good example of this from some of my own work is my fire slayer army sure everybody has mohawks folks um all of them it's the most expensive army in existence i mean it's not but um like every 10 arcanaut company was $600 ms rp sure sure um but it's uh but yeah like so i did it with like big like actual head swap beards with actual like fire slayer crests yeah absolutely so here here's an example from my old days i'll go to an older paint job i did let's fly over here here we go so i have some of my old uh back early on in uh uh when a os launched i did an army of storm cast because you know why not they just came out right yeah and so what i have up on here is some of my like grail cast and so all of them universally across the army have a bunch of Bretonian signifiers right so like in this case the heads are all uh Bretonian night helms or some of them don't wear the helm but they have like Bretonian human helms right so i went went to the same army consistently everybody has the Bretonian night helms when they had shields i sanded off all of the uh lightning bolts and hammers and stuff like that that are on the storm cast shields and painted on like flirtedly and other elements of the the Bretonian army right um i didn't use their like what i'm looking at i put i brought up the prosecutors by the way and the reason i brought up the prosecutors because i didn't use the um the um the like light blind wings or whatever they're called you know they're sort of they're kind of i don't know what i don't know what they really are but you know what i mean they're they're standard cast wings i switched them for just feathered wings right to which felt much more sort of grounded and and like what these kind of knights would be having as they're sort of like these grail cast returned Bretonian knights recast into into storm cast right into pegasus pegasus knights renewed yeah yeah exactly that could that kind of thing and then to lead the army i oh there he was sorry i jumped right past him i made my own celestine prime right and i wanted it to actually be like gila perton rising from rise from your graves uh you know like coming out of his grave right so again still gave him gall maras the big hammer he still has the Bretonian helm and it's a Bretonian head but then i gave him like the wings off of what was that like aloe here or whatever the elephant out of uh island oh yeah uh sorry i think of the cloak um yeah the yeah i think that's whoever it was yeah and yes uh nogginocker said they almost look like jukari scourge wings that's because they are jukari scourge wings because when you need a lot of feathered wings jukari scourge wings the way to go because that scourge box comes with two sets of wings leather and feathered meaning there's always an extra set around people are looking to get rid of so there you go uh so this is my you know this is my celestine prime right he's actually on the wrong base because they didn't i didn't have the official base at the time but that's okay it's fine and so interestingly notice the signifiers here folks yeah the big hammer yeah go ahead the big hammer the rising yep like the actual position of the miniature himself is similar right i tried to make him and he's it's not like the celestine prime body this is converted out of just like a bunch of different random storm cast yeah right but like he actually even mimicked the pose right because i wanted to feel like when i put it down the table people would be like oh yeah that's your celestine prime right because big winged singular dude with a giant hammer rising up in this floating flying position like yep right you know that those kind of signifiers being there um yep so i think that that's that kind of theme when you can execute it now there's also just tom one thing we should mention here is let's talk about just conversions for fun like the cool factor yeah the cool factor man right like there's there's no reason you can't do rule of cool stuff like don't ever don't ever feel like you can't just live in rule of cool where you've got an idea and you want to do a conversion it's not going to be oh i know there's there's so much quirk looking like quirk in that army it was the first i did that army like in my defense four years ago when i was still using a lot of quirk basing i don't like any of that now i apologize uh but it's yes it's terrible and bothers me every day um but at any rate uh all that's why i keep it around it's there to remind us of our shame and and the road we've traveled um sometimes you just want to convert a single model right because you want that one model to just be cool and your own yep there is no problem with that that's how i would encourage people to actually start playing around in if you haven't done a lot of converting that's where you start right you pick one or two character models or a couple dudes out of an infantry pack uh you know like we mentioned ogres earlier having easy conversion capability picking a couple iron guts or a couple of the regular ogre dudes you know or one of your ogre characters and adding on some extra pistols or having him carrying a banner having him have some extra noblars bouncing around him right that's where you start you know what i mean that's how you get comfortable yep hey can you jump to my uh black coach real quick i can absolutely let's let's black coach it up here we go black coaches up yeah so because this is definite rule of cool with how you got it up off the base for sure if nothing else i mean there's more going on but yes that indeed yeah so like i wanted to do this one um because i think that this this and capture like there's so much going on here and a lot of it's subtle and actually like most people will never pick up the changes that have happened and yet they were they came upon like they happened because i wanted i i wanted a flying sweet looking chariot now there's a there's a pragmatic problem here because like this model overhangs its base um like bad like like you can't get it into combat without entangling it with other things right and so there's a pragmatic problem that i wanted to solve but i also wanted it to look amazing um and so like i figured out what i needed to do to to hang it but it's interesting so you notice all the spirits down below vince could you zoom in on those for sure sure man um so one of the fascinating things about it is um i i like i did this and i put it up here and i went oh huh this is a problem because visually it was so heavy like up top yeah you had no you had no color symmetry right all your colors at the top right right and like and because i had such a poppy green i had to pull the eyes up or pull the eyes down um and so like the natural like recourse in the narrative of what's going on okay the thing's flying over a graveyard what's going to happen it's gonna you know like it's gonna wake up the other ghosts yeah right like that's how this works right and so like i already like i had to develop the narrative out of like a very pragmatic like color balancing problem right interestingly originally i also had um i was going to put a bunch of vines down here with the purple flowers to pull the purple down um but i didn't end up doing that simply because i didn't feel like i needed to because the purple wasn't as poppy as the green right no absolutely yeah yeah but that at the same time i think you could have and it would have been fine like yeah i agree purple dark purple doesn't draw the eye in the same way bright colors like this neon escorpeanous style green does right right and so um but like so i had to balance it but so this this model was driven fully by the desire to just have this weak model flying and and to and to go into like a weird like go like in a vent style base right um because vince is obviously renowned for for doing this silly uh uh like base flying situation absolutely putting well the guy i just showed was rising out of a whole similar cemetery situation so yes right so let me ask vince look over this model and tell me like what other things stand out out to you of things that i've changed i'm gonna do a little quiz for you yeah sure i don't know wife just walked in by the way to the dogs bark so that could i have to be careful and be ready to go on mute if dogs go insane that's fine uh i don't know this kit well enough honestly right what else have you changed i was here's what i'll say nothing else stands out as incongruous with the kit how about that no that's fine no that's good uh so let me highlight some some some super subtle changes that i made here um like some were just pragmatic changes that needed to happen so for example see all the smoke trails down below like those originally weren't flowy like that because they had to rest on the ground they were the contact points that the whole model rested on for the horses and so like i had to cut off and like re-carve some of those to get rid of all the stone and all that of the flow we spoke around their feet nice okay um another one is to zoom in uh there's a head swap on the carriage master okay to bring it in line with the heads of all of the rest of my um hex rates to make it feel more in line with that army um and if you'll notice i converted the size like i did many sizes in this army to be a halberd the the black guard halberd so again very small subtle kind of no it's very minor changes but they work well okay there's one other change that i made here that i've been super proud of and basically no one will ever notice it unless i tell them okay and that's go to the next picture of the uh like the entourage no i didn't poach kurtos that's the normal model um i don't see him i don't see a entourage picture i have the guys that are hanging onto the chariot i call them yeah got it oops i'll see if i can find it here hold on all right that's about as good as i can get it well like there's some that i have like of i have a zoom in of the guys that's what i think okay well no no no like there's it's not the big photo it's just a yeah i have the zoom in with the four guys in back yeah okay so um yeah you're like sorry the delay is killing me okay um so what i actually did here um is fairly subtle and it's that these guys normally uh their robes are normally like empty okay like they don't have skulls oh so you actually put little skulls in there so i actually had the skull kit and carved out skulls until i got him to fit in the road and added the jaw bones to have them screaming like all the rest of the models nice yeah because you do get separate jaw bones in the skull kit yeah right but like i went in and like hand added those because it like it wasn't the right aesthetic like when you look at every other model in the army they have skulls yeah here we go all i i flipped over images and this one shows a little better sorry i now that i see what you're aiming at i i see what you're going for here and yes i see now the the skulls really look nice yeah like but know what like no one and also like they're all faced in so unless you're like actually working to look you often won't see the skulls but for me that was a consistency thing that has nothing to like that doesn't visually change the model almost at all right and yet like it has to do with it feeling consistent across the entire army no i think it's solid it's it's a minor touch but man is it a great touch dude i would have never noticed honestly like it's it's a testament to how good that conversion is right that little crown that's on the middle dude is always part of the kit right yes that the crown was what is part of the kit naturally yeah the the the imagery of like thorns like vines with thorns it goes across the entire army which is a fantastic thing if you're wanting to like you know mix and wanderers in the thing and you have like the system of thorn like so there's actually like a lot of really neat conversions that i'm going to be playing with as i expand out the army but yes so the the vine with thorns and roses are a consistent image across the army nice yeah it's cool that's great uh yeah i want to so i'm going to jump to a couple of my rule of cool models yeah um this is great tom you really did fantastic on this black coach it's great i can't wait to see it in person in a week and a half uh so i'm going to scan through some stuff here there's the gyrocopter there's my own hurricane i did uh this is a rule of this is one of the early like rule of cool models that i did so this is um kalita those who know know that uh i mean i still submit i have one of the biggest tomb king forces in the world as i have 14 000 points of tomb kings painted there's probably somebody with more but you know i'm just saying i'm up there and uh i loved the tomb kings and i loved kalita kalita was always my girl and so in the you could have a you can have a lord on sphinx right so you have a tomb king on sphinx a royal war sphinx and i always loved this concept and so i wanted to do a kalita themed royal war sphinx so like i got the kalita model and then i pulled out some parts from the uh the coven throne that was that is yeah coven throne slash mortis engine yeah and then as well as like the side curtains and stuff like that as well as i i took apart i found an old snake uh swarm from the the the lizard men like the old school snake swarm snakes i found a bunch of those and took them off their bases and put them all over her her base and her dais and stuff so she had snakes all around her you accentuate the snake imagery yeah yeah yeah exactly because she was the asp right she was the queen of the asp yeah and i just i love this kit so much it was so ready for conversion and man was this a fun one to do um she was she was great i really really enjoyed this one and then of course this guy uh still one of my favorite conversions i've ever done uh this is we'll get to the one that's higher than this in a moment um this is my mega boss on ma crush or ma chicken uh this is the this is the the flaming rooster uh i'll let you fill in alternate words for rooster and uh he you know so like obviously this guy's converted in a lot of little ways the mall crush is heavily converted he's got the zinge birdhead from again from rk on and i actually want to point out a fun way to cover gaps here as well when i put this model together the bird head and the things i was using didn't really fit into this giant neck socket weird that the mall crush ahead so i added so i again took the skull kit skull kit is the ultimate answer let me say that but i took the skull kit and gave him a necklace of skulls you know what i'm saying like i made a little thin green something and then just laid a bunch of skulls down and it covered some of the little gaps and made it look like and bulked out that area at the same time so it looked like a more natural transition into the actual neck right yeah um and then obviously those are the wings off of the uh lord of change back there that because i and i i had to shave off the normal mall crusher wings he doesn't have his normal gimpy wings he has just the back wings um yeah so this one oh my gosh you talk about a moment of no return like there's always some moment of no return in a conversion project the moment when i literally just took my clippers to the like neck structure of the mall crusher and cut his head off in this giant chopping thing and was like well here we go that's it because the head was just ruined right at that point right there was no going back but i understand at that point i had like fit the head tried a bunch of different heads you know i mean like i had done a lot of like pre-planning before that happened right yeah um and i would encourage you keep your bits organized go to like the dollar store get yourself the little jewelry bead boxes or whatever get a bunch of those separate your bits i separate them by army you can do it however makes sense for you maybe you got a box of heads box of weapons whatever makes sense but separate your bits in some logical fashion it will make your life so much easier later when you're converting because what i did is just like went and got out the appropriate bits i thought would work everything's organized i can dump a bunch of bits out on your workspace and then just start putting things together right grab the thing you're trying to change and say does this piece work no yes i don't know does this piece work well maybe and you know you can go back and forth right well it's funny that you say that like it's actually the fact that i had an overflowing dark elf bits box right that i was like oh maybe i can use these for some of those weapon swaps remember like i was and so part of it was like a very practical concert of like man i need to find weapons for my for my night hunt oh i have a bunch of these dark elf weapons okay well i can use those and i was like well wait a minute and then that's like then the narrative began to kind of like come together of like no these are this is a dark elf force and and what else can i do and so um like keeping those things consistent like you know there's value to that yeah 100 and also the mention there isn't exactly what steve uh herner had said earlier like he made a fun conversion with one rat wearing a hat which because it seemed fun right it was one model and then he was like huh i'm a dual army like this right like it just it behooved the further creations so sometimes by taking the leap by playing with one model you can actually then like get inspired to do the whole force right um double screaming bell that one's fun we looked at him already so here you go this is truly my favorite conversion i've ever done this is the most recent one this is my this is archie l my slanesh archion conversion uh which is huge she's 23 inches tall i think uh like so much so you can she's back behind my in my shelf behind me but like i had to remove a whole shelf to fit her in there a long time in the making by the way like you have your life in the making yes like of thinking about it planning it out gaining getting the kits the bits yeah absolutely we talked about this is holy wars one year and it took me a year and a half at least to make this yeah yep yep and so um you know and like i've got a zoomed in one here so we can see like this is obviously our can but then he has things like the um i like adding shoulder pads to dorgar because he's actually like he needs some spot color there his his normal shoulders are kind of boring so this one the previous is each one was using the shoulders off the demon prince because they fit pretty perfectly this one's using the shoulders off of the um the other cast chariot that's not the normal one what's that stupid the gore uh the gore beast yeah it's the gore beast shoulder pads right like his armor thing it's using the ma the head off of the uh mutolith vortex beast yep and then obviously archion in when when archion activates his slanesh form of course he becomes uh a female persona so he becomes archial so i use allario here uh this model was partially made to spite tyler emerson so to tie it back to our earlier pic of the week spite in the best way he and i have had a long time running joke about uh that allario is a fake god and not at all interesting so i i part of this was done out of the best kind of spite and then like daemonette heads and the big giant claws and whips and stuff like that so added onto allario um but this was just like this was a long project and one of my and just absolutely my this is my favorite thing i've ever done she's up on this fallen house and there's all sorts of signifiers of violence and torture and depravity that are down in the house hidden away and little pieces like that um yeah this was sort of like the capstone piece for the army right it was meant to be the the the thing um yeah and yes this this is a 3d printed house based like ruined mayor's mansion or something uh printed by uh the man himself crazy horse anthony pulcastro a true hobby hero so indeed yep um and then this is i just flipped over the next project i'm working on i also just have my free guild general on griffin in here too which i took a frigate and a bunch of other pieces and big giant mechanical wings and gave the frigate claws so it actually has claws like a griffin and can actually like stab people and i converted the guy out of a bunch of different parts because i want him to be free guild but have heavy armor and that kind of stuff so yeah yeah there you go yeah and i mean i guess that gets to like the end of like what i want to talk about which is that like at some point of converting in your journey you will go okay there's nothing that i want to modify that does what i want it to do so now i just need to bring something into existence from nothing right okay and so like that's what vince has done here um another example of this is um uh the can you go my spider fang uh uh doom diver yep absolutely um so like this was back i made this during the end of eighth i was doing a forest goblin green skin army and i was doing all forest goblin stuff and until i wanted to have a bunch of sieged weapons and um they're like there was just no way to get there with what they had and so what i ended up doing was um i made my own model right right uh uh the shaman had a little like spider like skin cloak and it looked like wings of the doom diver and so i went sure let's do that um and so i found other bits and uh i put them on there and added some crew to the base and and then for the web i for the like the lines on the on the catapult um i got some actual wire and twisted it up and you know and made little catapult lines and and what you actually can't see here is that like again leaning back into like the story aspect of this um i have one of the giant spiders from the arachna rock kit that would pull back the catapults pulling back his chair like you can't see it from this angle but uh yeah it's actually causing the string to stretch yes yeah exactly and so like creating that internal continuity um uh yeah so and i could have like i could have sculpted some of this but i mean i did this within the first year in the hobby so like this is all just taking bits that were already there um and making you know making things of my own imagination um more recently uh uh jumped to my night haunt the two cav models of my night hunt um i'm going to reveal like so one is going to be my warlord for havoc this weekend or in a week and a half um um and the other is going to be i'm going to show what my hex rates look like yep i got both up down okay so uh the one on the left is my uh is my warlord for havoc you need to have a warlord it has to be like some custom you know like it's some custom model it has a custom war scroll but they're supposed to like mimic other units like so they'll take on like the commandability of a unit in your army and so i wanted to do one based on the nightish shrouds and so i wanted it to feel like a nightish shrouds but i also wanted it to feel like um a mortar yep um and so i took the base night shrouds i did the heads head swaps and the weapon swaps that are needed um to to bring this in line uh statically with the rest of my army you know the dark elf horns just work really well on these guys don't they really do like yeah they really do and like you zoom in and they have a little like skull in the temple i know yeah like it's dude it's so good like the aesthetic across this army is so consistent it's like the dragon the dragon aesthetic in my fire slayers that like i was able to pull bits like it's um like i've been very impressed just with how like how well it's dubbed a dovetailed in here it literally writes itself um but sometimes like to get the visual flow that i wanted to you actually have to like mess with stuff um so if you zoom in on like the left hand side so those ghost spirits like um a lot of them came from like mortar bases or from uh maybe spirit host bases but the one on the left the little dude that's like slinking out of the skull um that's that one is actually the one from negasha's hand oh nice um that i had to like merge into that but i wanted it like i wanted to have the broad feel but i wanted it to feel different than the momentum of the ones on the right um and so uh you know like helping to to like figure that out and then get all the positioning right so that they're all facing so as if they're all staring at the same object right yep yeah yeah um and so like those are things that like as the longer you go down this road the more you'll need to think about like yes i wanted to add spirits but like i wanted them to all feel like they're staring at the same person yeah like they're coming for the same enemy this guy is sort of driving right yeah right so that's what i wanted to point out about him and then the the guy to the right is i wanted to show um an example for me of of of pulling together a bunch of like kit bashing basically from the ground up um the guy on the right those are my hex rates you'll notice that i decided i opted out of the sides um because i just don't like them um i got rid of sides from almost the entire army um i have a couple exceptions i've left the sides in there but in general i've just pulled them out of the army um because they're just too over the top and overdone um and so for my hex race i needed to have the flames right like that's one of the stereotypical aspects of the of the hex rates and so i left the legs but i but i kept like i added flaming skulls um and it's it's hard i guess i should have judged as a different model to demonstrate this um but uh to help like visually balance the model but then i needed dark elf bits and so i use a bunch of the cold one night bits of the hands and the you know the like on the one hand the lances of them but then i also use black night bits for like the shield arms so i actually had skeletal arms um so like helping gonna make this balance and feel right uh was a model by model basis based on the bits that were being used and so sometimes in order to create that consistency you can't just like copy paste one kit over like one part of a kit over into another kit you'll literally have to go model by model as you build them sure um but yeah yeah somebody asked in the comments about tips for working with green stuff or epoxy yeah i mean my answer is uh get a set of yeah water get yourself a set of clay shapers which are you know you can just if you look up clay shapers you'll find them there that you can get hard and soft and get a little any any standard little pack i'll get you're going i have a bunch of different ones that look like this they're just this like very simple little sculpting tool rubbery tipped sculpting tools it'll like paint brushes but they have little rubber tips and get yourself a set of like the little dentist tools um which are things that look like this the little metal things they have different little ends on them for doing different shapes and and cutting and working with it um so that kind of those kind of elements a set of each of those and you're going to go work on water if you're working on accessory pieces like feathers or uh like little ribbons or stuff like that just sculpt it completely off the model sculpt it on like a piece of on like a little makeup mirror or something you can buy cheap makeup mirrors set them flat on your on your desk and work on that and once it dries it won't stick to the mirror because the mirror has nothing for the green stuff to adhere to so you can really just peel it right off once it's completely dry um i i actually use uh you know the little like six by nine pictures picture frames yeah yeah like the cheapy ones um i got one of those and just popped out the glass and so i have a little six by nine sheet of glass that i work on yep um and the the um the the green stuff won't adhere to that glass so you can literally just like make little i sometimes i'll make little feathers or little like just if i want to do dangly ribbons or like purity seals are pretty common one for 40k stuff you can just make a bunch of them down on there and then just let them dry and you just pop them right off and glue them on your model as a little accessory um uh manzac you would know better than me on this uh he's done so manzac we just made a comment of like mix it with magic sculpt uh don't use green stuff on its own interesting magic sculpt i know is is quite good i'll i'll be honest and say i've never messed around with it too much i've used a couple different types of of two-part epoxy beyond green stuff uh but i haven't done any full fledged sculpting except for one time when i took a like a two-day class about how to sculpt miniatures and at the end of it i was like oh good i never want to do that again that was terrible um but like the the other thing i would say is you know keep your tools wet i know some people use like vaseline and stuff i've never found that to be completely necessary as long as you're working carefully and keeping your tools moist so they don't stick to the green stuff if you're trying to build up a large area uh if you're trying to do like something quite complicated like a cloak and then some hair over it or something and then like then a braid in the hair and then a crown or in the hair you know whatever i don't know um don't try to do that all at once you can think about green stuff in the same way you think of paint like you can work in layers so you can sculpt like just like if you've got a gap to fill then you want to put a cloak over okay just fill the gap first let that dry now do the cloak let that dry right now do the hair hanging over the cloak let that dry you know like the point is is that that way you can keep the part separated you could because if everything's wet and you're trying to really carefully sort of handle it around everything's going to stick together poorly and it'll kind of you'll you'll mess up some of your previous work whereas if you just work slowly and carefully and you work layer by layer up on the sculpt and kind of build it up um you'll you'll have a lot better results mm-hmm that's good but there's a lot of good there's a lot of good tutorials from people much better than me at sculpting out there you can you can hunt up um and and i would i would highly recommend you do that so tom there we go that's conversions i hope we've inspired people to create some armies or to step outside or to not be afraid to chop up some models any closing thoughts you've got on uh on converting models yeah find a concept that just arrests you um so like it might be a small aesthetic element a small tiny aesthetic element in a very large army that you just want to run with right like for me it started with four scallops there was one unit one and i was like i love those guys they're little indian feathers um i want an army of them and then that began my project right right um and so my my encouragement is um find something that you're just passionate about that you just want to run with and then things like the art of the world can be good for this the the army books themselves will often have discussions of other weird versions of the armies that there's not really miniatures to support like specific clans or things like that that don't don't necessarily exist in the sculpts those are great places to look for inspiration it's true it's true um and so yeah find something that you're just passionate about and that you want to bring to life and then just do it um absolutely and i know like this is going to be really easy to say um but at the end of the day uh like converting can be a very expensive hobby sure but the more you go over time the longer you're in the hobby and the more random bits you build up actually the cheaper it gets like these three prototypes that i built like the first gyrocopter the steam tank commander and the free guild general on griffin we're all basically zero dollars because it was stuff i just had around absolutely absolutely but um my exhortation to you and this is not going to be an easy one is don't let price stop you sure absolutely um because i don't know if you remember vince when i was waffling about my ko um because the piece like nobody was selling the like the slayer like mohawk bits which meant that like every time i was going to have to get mohawks i had to buy a box of fire slayers and i wasn't going to use them like again joking i was joking around about that being the most expensive army but i mean there's very much there's truth in that um let me like let me exhort you to say you don't like even if it's going to be expensive there is a secondary market for bits and so sometimes you don't have to buy the full kit so like when you're going to do a conversion project like again planning you know like planning now and like just hunting for a while right yes it's if you don't need it to be now i there's been kits where the where i was just like i just watch every couple days i'll search on ebay yeah see what goes up i just want to wait it out yeah and just and just be patient yeah because sometimes that stuff will go up um sometimes it won't um and when it doesn't if it does look like it's going to be a an expensive conversion project find ways to mitigate that cost so like what i ended up doing was with my fire slayers is every box of fire slayers i bought i just went and resold the bodies online sure and so i like i got it down to where i was only after the resale of bits i would only pay a dollar per mohawk extra nice which that's that's pretty good off of a 60 box yeah sure um and so my like and so be patient go slow if if like if you're gonna build a stock army that you're going to lose motivation on in six to nine months or spend two years or three years hobbying on a passion project um because it takes much you longer to save up it takes you longer to acquire the bits or whatever um do the longer project you're going to thank yourself for it later yep i agree no i i totally agree and find something and uh make it your own there you go all right well with that we bring the show to a close so thank you everybody remember hashtag shelf slanesh and uh that will make any sense to people who joined midway through but you can go back and watch my my long discussion on that earlier uh but at any rate we thank you all very much for watching for watching we really really appreciate it and as always we'll see you next wednesday