 there we go okay yes we are recording thank you we have a few more people as well before i introduce our speakers for today i'm very excited to hear from i just want to mention a few other things that i stuck up on the agenda and i'll put the agenda in the chat for anyone interested um two weeks our next meeting is we're going to have Harris Kamal the chief revenue on officer of chronicle the creators of metallager come on talking about financial transaction and life sciences and how they're using blockchain to revolutionize charge charge backs and claims in the healthcare system so that's something that i think it's going to have implications certainly for people across the healthcare industry but also for other industries where charge backs and claims are an issue and then on october 26 gbbc is going to have an event that i just learned about this morning real world use cases transforming supply chains and that will feature Sandra row their founder and ceo paul rapino and dale christy paul and dale are our guest speakers today so i wanted to make sure i mentioned their event coming up and a quick announcement for the sig many of you have been following the ebook that we've been working on for months now we are on target to publish this next month so at the next meeting in two weeks we'll give you a little bit more information on that but we're really excited with it we're really excited about the way it's shipping and we're going to have some very interesting use cases featured including including uh metallager our speaker for in two so that said that out of the way again i want to welcome today paul rapino and dale christy paul is the chief growth officer of the global blockchain business council and dale christy is fedex business fellow blockchain strategist and chairman of the bidder standards council a few months ago we learned how the bidder standards council merged with gbbc so i know we're all interested in learning more about that the the title of their presentation today is how emerging technology is transforming global supply chains paul would you like to take it from here i will thank you so much uh we have um a smaller group so it'd be great to understand elisha if you can give us a little background of what you guys are working on and kind of where you're going and then we can direct the presentation accordingly and um i can give more background on on what we're doing but it'd be great to get a little background on the group so the group varies from week to week i'm just quickly taking like assessing um who is on the call some new people some people i've seen before the supply chain and trade finance sig is a product of the merger last year of the separate supply chain sig and the trade finance sig a year and a half ago we decided to um to merge so that we could um focus on the many ways that supply chain and trade finance are intersect some people here are on the more technical side some people are not some people have years of experience in supply chain management and or trade finance um we are recently starting to see more people with the technical skills with the developer development skills um but right now that's not what we're focused on so what we generally have been spending a lot of our time on is having a better understanding of who is doing what in this space using blockchain especially using hyper ledger blockchain to have a real impact not just the potential use cases but what are the real use cases who has this in production what are their returns on investment of actually using this and one thing we've certainly seen is in a number of cases in some companies and some governments they might be using blockchain back end but they're not talking about it because the the word blockchain itself has become something of a catalyst for disagreement for people to become highly suspicious but it is such a powerful technology that in order to be really effective it's it's becoming more and more widespread and so we want people to understand what these use cases are and what the actual returns on investment are why they're so powerful how they're so powerful and why companies think it's important to use them and that um global blockchain business council you obviously are the center of a lot of this you're doing so much work in these areas okay got it thank you that's great background and i think dale and i will jump right in and be able to engage the team on the call i do want to step back and give a little background about why we're doing supply chain why weren't we even thinking about it because it is a strategic move we made uh based on several reasons uh again my name is paul rapino and i've been in blockchain crypto fintech for many years at microsoft and then the last several at start ups and the last three at gbbc we are a combination of several organizations we are one of the largest rather association for blockchain technology but the three components that drive gbbc are the digital finance group the interwork alliance which is technology standards and then the newest initiative is is bit and i'll explain why we did that these as you mentioned alicia these all have a symbiotic relationship however you need to break it down into the smallest increments to actually drive a use case and then they start coming together and making sense and that's what we've seen happen as we extended our different initiatives across different verticals so today uh dale and i will talk briefly about our charter and roadmap and we love your questions comments feedback we literally um got our deal done in july and taken about two months to uh to integrate and uh we have um done that and now we're going to go out public this is our first kickoff we'll be doing others as alicia mentioned i'll give you more detail on that at the end of the conversation um but real quick our initiative all our initiatives are we have a goal of doing three things one either helping members or the uh the industry drive partnership uh we develop education tools uh best practices standards and then advocacy and more and more that's becoming really valuable from a public policy side where we have a footprint across uh asia us and here i mean in uh uk and what's really great is when these use cases work and their grassroots and they make sense and people are engaging and using them and seeing you know real production or implementation is it adds you know a whole different level of um engagement at the policy side because then you're talking about specific issues and topics that need to be addressed based on reality and not assumption so that's how that all comes together we're 500 organizations made up of corporate you know the microsoft's excentures hyper ledger to other non pro to nonprofits and um NGOs and government agencies so um about a year ago dale and i met and we said you know we've got a lot of demand for what blockchain can do in the supply chain space a lot of touch points across the globe are very inefficient and so um we spent some time getting to know each other and it made sense that uh we should merge organizations dale can tell you a little bit more about bitta when i hand it over to him but um our strategic and plan was let's integrate bitta let's take the assets the resources the minds the the thought leadership that dale and the leadership team that i have listed here have been driving and let's one let's get it aligned and then two let's use the gbb scale to get the message out and and get feedback so that we could start driving real world solutions at a global level there's a lot of solutions at the regional level or in test cases so we're stepping up above that to both combine the best practices but also to dig into how do we scale globally on an open source uh platform or open source model that can be used with consistent standards so with that we um brought greg and dale and vanesha from delta and bob from salesforce into gbbc and i joined the leadership team and we've been working uh dale and i have been together way too much but it's been a great relationship and we kind of speak together let's finish each other sentences but it's really been cool to see how two worlds can combine and move into some some work that actually drives some value so i'm going to turn it over to dale and i'll let dale introduce himself he's been a great asset in many ways and a good friend so dale i'll turn it over to you thank you very much good morning good afternoon everyone very nice to be here today happy to participate in this i'm business fellow and blockchain strategist for fedex i've spent my entire career in the transportation industry i was in a strategy role as an officer at one of the operating companies and led the first blockchain use case at fedex in 2017 later that year we along with ups and others became founding members of the blockchain and transport alliance in the standards council in particular and i am the chairman of that coming into this and now i lead the leadership team within the bit of gbbc piece of this and so i have to start very briefly by painting a picture if i could which is we you know going back to 2017 and beyond we really kind of you know we're trying to figure this whole thing out right you know let's let's let's figure this out let's build something let's do whatever the case may be which most people in this space are trying to do and you guys are actually doing it right you're actually building things from that point of view so i applaud that but we also came to a conclusion at that point that for this to scale again my if i were doing a conference presentation right now my very first slide literally is from the international space station it's a it's a picture of earth so imagine basically a 180 degree view of the globe looking at all the twinkling lights and all the geography and everything else from that point of view and as i would say you know fedex ups dhl we go to 220 countries and territories we go everywhere you can go in the world and so for that discussion in 2017 2018 and beyond it's not about oh well let's figure out a use case let's figure out this or let's figure out that um i quickly when i started leading the efforts in 2018 i quickly started to kind of pull back from what was typically a more north american or us domestic kind of view from most of my career into this true international space station level view and at that level there is no end there is no company right none of these companies i've just mentioned there is no company there is no industry there are no borders data knows no geographic borders and so if i can pull you up a little bit for a few minutes on that before we even get into our mission statement that's what's driving the mission statement at that at that level it has to work for ups it has to work for fedex or dhl or other examples or delta or sales force or other but it also has to work all the way to a bicycle delivery company who does not have an it group right we have to think in in these really large terms from that point of view and um so that's really where we felt the alignment was best with gbbc which is at that true international space station level um at that level we have so so under what set of circumstances would things scale um you know you could get to a private or permission scenario in a specific industry um lots of examples of that from that point of view and actually some private examples of that wal-mart's got that in their leafy green area various things like that metal ledgers a fantastic example in the pharma space uh with the with that us kind of mostly us industry but at the true global commerce level um it has to work for everybody it has to it has to be interoperable uh our sense is that identity will play a key role in this whole thing but there's almost nothing in our world that exists right now without standards whether that is a traffic light or a four-way stop sign or the electrical grid or interstate highways or the alphabet i mean almost everything in our world is standardized and you know this whole uh notion of a global supply chain i've spent my career in it so to me it's second nature it's like breathing but for most people in the world many of them really didn't think of the global supply chain until the pandemic when they couldn't get a you know they couldn't get paper towels and many other examples from that point of view and and so in the last few years a couple of years many many people are now starting to look at that well one of the things i would say is most people in the global supply chain don't realize they're in the global supply chain right it's just paul paul ink or dale ink and i've got a few customers and i've got to get my orders out and i've got to do this and this and this but when you pull back and really look at that at that international space station level it's millions of entities and it all starts connecting looks like a big kind of a spaghetti bowl or something but um there's a lot to it foundationally we came to that conclusion early on that standards were going to be critical that's why we were one of the founding members of bidda in 2017 so how do we do that there's lots of standards entities i i could put you to sleep if you have any problem sleeping i could literally put you to sleep by walking through all the standards entities and what they're doing you know in europe and in us and all you know china and everything else from that point of view um but from our point of view where we see the play for bidda is that that the world needs a harmonizer an effort to harmonize these things we are technology agnostic we are focused on open source and royalty free data standards um and we are happy to work with other like-minded entities a really good example is world customs i had the opportunity in 2019 to to speak on a panel be a participate in a panel there and at the time uh we're discussing the fact that world customs has standards but they were proprietary and the response was simply why why should that be a money making thing we need standards that everybody can use that are truly interoperable that are truly open and we can connect all those dots from that point of view and so uh as it turns out we were successful in getting them to open up their standards so we certainly hope there's other examples of that moving forward but right now we're focused on the open piece of that that's where we think this ultimately scales uh and to uh to align with and work with other entities so i'm not going to get stuck on any of the other individual slides i just needed to kind of set that up so that hopefully by the time you read the mission statement um which is we're working with others we're focused on open and then we're going to drive the effort uh you know we aren't the only one certainly lots of great lots of standards exist lots of things happen whether that's iso or world customs or un or lots of other things and and the early initiative with gbbc and the gsm i global standards mapping initiative 4.0 we are the supply chain piece of that so we're doing the deep dive right now in the early use of the first version of gsm i that will be out this fall and then we will use that as research information moving forward for bitter so anyway again um i'm not going to read all this to you what do we think we think the future is paperless what do we do what do we need to do to get to that um certainly a lot it's years on the horizon but there's a lot of movements toward that direction we certainly think identity is going to be key to that that'll be kind of a holy grail from that point of view um we think that open is inevitable in this space we think that's where that's how it will scale and that's one of the reasons why i spend as much time talking about more global thought leadership kinds of things and i'm not up here selling a fedex product or any other product whatever the case may be from that point of view we think we think it's going to take a pro competitive what i refer to as co-optition a global village working together to do this just like you're doing with hyper ledger just like many others are doing we're simply trying to bring all those together into a fewer and fewer and hopefully ultimately one conversation paul's thank you um i think we went too far back one there we go so again i i've used the word harmonizer uh the keywords there harmonizer open um we are starting to work on the backbone of that so there's lots of places to start you could literally start by just identifying all the standards entities and pulling everything you can pull and push them together and like essentially a big spreadsheet um that would be one way of accomplishing it but it doesn't really give you your true your true north we think our true north is actually in the movement space so point a to point b likely across the border so the data elements you know you could easily get literally into hundreds maybe almost a thousand data elements if you literally identified all the movement pieces all the business pieces all the customs and clearance pieces import export everything else from that point of view we're going to start with we think maybe around 50 or so that are kind of the key points here buyer seller country of origin those are the kind of basics and we're going to start from there with this first effort and then we're going to expand it out so for example country of origin country code for example is one of the least controversial ones pretty much everybody uses the same one but if you go out and look at world customs if you go out and look at bid if you go out and look at others from that point of view most of them point to the iso standard on that and so there is no controversy on that one pretty much everybody says yep that's the list it's the same I don't know what the number is 240 or 60 or whatever the number of countries I don't remember that is we go to 220 um some we can't go to but it's not controversial that's a good example of okay can we all agree yes we can agree but it's not that clear once we start broadening this thing when we start getting out into uh well what about you know um invoice information or what about weight or description or commodity or there's lots of kind of synonyms if you will in this thing that we know of as global commerce that has been um evolving literally since the romans and the Phoenicians I mean the bill of lading it has existed for literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds maybe thousands of years it goes back that far and yet the the next step if we can envision it the next step is to digitize that which then gets you so digitization could be a an item going over to a pdf or could be another digitized type of item digital digitalization digitalization allows you to now say well let me look at the processes within that let me redesign some of those processes and all of that's going to lead you to digital value and we think foundationally these open standards are going to be at the base of all of that once we can build this it literally takes the globe not just FedEx not just UPS not just any example that you want it takes all of us to an entirely new level that we we can really then start envisioning how we can truly streamline these global processes and where I get to co-optition is we sat down uh we were on stage I represented FedEx UPS and DHL were both there as well uh on stage in 2019 in Toronto where we talked just calmly talked about you know where can we agree that's my definition of co-optition it's not about where we compete it's about where we can agree pro competitive and we're one of the places we can agree is where we can reduce friction across borders that's paper that's delays that's resources that's all the things that we all experienced personally as consumers during the pandemic uh pain points that we experienced where we can reduce friction across borders we all win and so the broader view of that is we believe that these bit of efforts are foundational once they once we can get it to a common language a common data language open data language now we can build emerging technologies and emerging systems off of that and that literally takes the world to an entirely different place so Paul so uh again we we've started since July we've been very busy uh Paul and I are on the phone a lot with each other and we have uh the other bit of members and we've also got the GSMI Global Standards Mapping Initiative 4.0 uh effort going on uh Greg Brown from UPS and I are the co-chair of that and we are working on the 4.0 supply piece of that so there's a lot a lot of movement a lot of editing a lot of researching a lot of stuff going on from that point of view um but basically you know we we've established some of these pieces uh and by the way um one of the early questions that Paul and I had to work through is what's what's BIDA versus what's GSMI where does one where does one you know go in the other stop or whatever I think of them as a Venn diagram so two two overlapping you know circles if you will uh or or graphics um and uh the research arm of BIDA is essentially the GSMI 4.0 supply chain piece and so uh we are working on the GSMI piece right now we hope to have that that'll be done yet this fall uh and that will be the jump start to the BIDA work where we will continue to go deeper and deeper and broader and broader so working with other entities and all the rest of those kinds of things um and uh but this actually accelerates the start of BIDA and the timing worked out for us to do that and we are thrilled to be involved with the GSMI 4.0 effort. Yeah and Dale um I will I'm going to put in the uh text box GSMI it's the Global Standards Mapping Initiative. GBBC started it with um with the World Economic Forum uh about four years three years ago and now this is our fourth iteration each year we review standards across different initiatives different best practices and do exactly what um what Dale just mentioned and I'll send the link so you can get a look at it and and um look at ways to participate but we added supply chain this year and that's what Dale's referencing because we thought it was a really good fit for us to use the group to drive some of the early research and then we'll take those findings as well as some of the other assumptions we have and move the business forward. So here's so here's a slider a slightly more detailed version of that which is ultimately this has to be end to end right has to be cradle to grave basically but end to end on any movement um we're starting with where we think is the the the foundational piece kind of the backbone of movement is basically I bought something from you uh and it needs to move from point to point B and what are the key elements there and certainly just like what you've been working on you start somewhere and you're going to iterate you're going to add likely upstream and downstream from that and we will build from there and broaden it out um we then are identifying we're narrowing down on key movement data elements those are kind of maybe the first 50 or so that we think will will cover the basics to start with um we are working on uh mapping the existing standards uh that's given us a really good opportunity to determine what standards are out there a b which are open very very important um it we don't really believe that somebody's business layer supporting somebody's business layer to to pay for standards is how this will scale ultimately um and um then ultimately we're working on uh where we think this whole paperless supply chain thing will go with that what that might look like um I will also tell you this in full transparency um we're we're a member of there are three entities that are a member of the global express association FedEx UPS and DHL most people don't know that that exists but GEA is a fantastic resource they are very connected to world customs world trade and others and uh in 2019 the three member companies UPS DHL FedEx work together on a position paper on a position paper and a call to action to world customs and world trade on open standards and interoperable standards within this technology um and uh earlier this year the global express association again representing us three member came out with a paperless trade document that really envisions where that whole thing goes so that is not technically part of BIDA but two of the three members are leadership team members of BIDA and so we are really starting to align pretty closely uh on some of these key things as we move forward certainly all this will have to involve regulatory agencies so people like US customs department of Homeland Security others as well certainly around the globe from that point of view but it's a big it's a big discussion and we are proud to be involved with kind of helping to harmonize that as we move this thing forward um once one final comment on that one uh which is that the standards is the starting point but certainly we also believe that reference architecture reference implementation is key to this um and um that certainly is going to be something that's going to need to scale as well so whatever the early use cases there will be very foundational uh as I would say you know probably too generically but not too far from this point A to point B maybe comma across a border maybe comma with a sensor um but it's going to start basic from that point of view and then little by little we can expand out from there yeah and I'll just yeah I just want to interject um uh recognize uh Alan Stoll from UPS is here and then Greg Bourne from GBBC he just posted um the link for GSMI so you can take a look at that uh after we're completed but I just wanted to call that out yeah and I think we're down to just this slide um again it's not it's it's hard to describe this but it's not at this moment the the view the strategy is not a process improvement initiative we can get to process improvement by saying well here's what they did in the maritime ships in the 1600s and now we can do something slightly different or whatever the case may be part of this is really going up into that international space station view and saying look not if but when these items are digitized when we have a common data language an open source data language then the then blockchain and these emerging technologies can then come in over the top of that and move forward for for the benefit of all for the commons right and so what you are working on in your groups um uh we are trying to focus on that as well literally at the global level in terms of that and it's going to take a lot of people it's going to take a pro-competitive as I would say co-operative to do it it's going to take adults at the table to simply say look this this is going to have to work for everyone if I if I have to provide my private information I won't do it if I have to have an ID department and I don't right now I'm not going to do it we have to solve for all those things and I know we've got bright capable people on this call that are working through your own versions of that so with that uh Paul turn it back over to you yeah thanks Dale I'm going to open it up for questions I'm going to ask the first one though two two ahas that I learned in jumping into this project and my background is technology and and business development so I've really enjoyed learning kind of what's broken and what we can fix um one of the comments Dale made earlier caught me it's most people that are in the supply chain don't even realize it so that was uh wow this that's it's a big problem if you don't know you're part of the problem to fix it um but the other one was that the company that the reason this hasn't been done earlier there's many reasons it hasn't been done earlier but I thought one of the calls we had a couple months ago um and I think it was Venetian from Delta or somebody said look we could you know we've all done workarounds one-offs to fix what's broken and we realize that that helps our company or their company but it doesn't solve the overall solution so Dale I don't know if you could talk about that but the idea of um you know you guys are big enough to to do it yourself versus you know why do we have to go scale across several different companies you mentioned a little bit but can you give maybe an example of what that what that looked like and how you're trying to solve that yeah I can tell you that uh you know the very first use case we did in 2017 was a hyper ledger use case uh we are from a FedEx point of view I'm speaking out from a FedEx point of view we're technology agnostic we think there's going to be a you know dominant design we think a number of things are going to have to happen for that to happen but one of the first things we did was we think it's going to take a global supply chain blockchain and we built one and it worked and only then did we realize it won't work because it can't scale and that's why that's why little by little my perspective has changed literally to this international space station level and it's not just about FedEx certainly we're in business to be in business and everybody else is as well but um you know if I think of an android phone which I have um you know it takes an open foundation and then any one of us could build a proprietary app that sits on top of that so certainly we all want to take advantage of that but we can't skip that step and I think that's part of what Venetia or whomever it was that was saying that was referring to that uh it really does take this big broad global view to say wait a second we are if I'm saying that most people don't know they're in the global supply chain I would also add that to anybody on any call which is most of us don't think of ourselves as part of the global supply chain and yet you are you buy things online and you do these things and there's value not only personally but in my case professionally and for many of us in a supply chain space to really envision something that is completely different these technologies blockchain and emerging technologies you know uh verifiable credentials zero knowledge proofs these kinds of things are going to fundamentally change what hasn't been changed in thousands of years and um that's that's what makes this so exciting is it a slow burn yes is it going to take a lot of effort and a lot of discussions like this absolutely but there's a lot of fantastic work already in play moving forward in some of these spaces and we're very happy to connect with gvbc and the gsm i effort and where we think we can take this moving forward thanks dale so um i will um reiterate what alicia said at the beginning so this is our first meeting so i would love to get some feedback i'm going to give you a little preview of what we're playing in the working group and i'd love to get feedback from the group here kind of what we need to add what we can go deeper on maybe what we've missed or what you agree with and um uh so let's see on thursday the 26th we'll be rolling out our worker plan and our ability our plan to scale the group and the projects we're going to work on we have to work get down to this but we're going to break it down into two pieces a business side and a kind of a technical tech taxonomy side and we really feel that breaking it down into small groups to address a business use case is the key thing that needs to be done correctly so we'll be talking more about this and how you can get involved either as a member or non-member um down the line but i wanted to know if there are any questions from the group i had a question yes net here so um question was are is better working with um i said like waves bl trade trust trade waltz read about them all the time on linkedin and i think uh trade trust did a trade using blockchain blockchain from miami to india so i'm curious if you guys are working with those entities those companies that seem to be bringing blockchain to try to you know get people to the ebl initiative of 2030 yeah i would say not yet um again we're starting on the on the standard side of things standards entities so that gets you to the dcsa piece that i think you just referred to the ebl piece uh there are some great efforts um there's an effort uh in europe dsi through the international chamber of commerce uh we're just starting in those spaces right now so that's that's where we're starting and certainly the dots start connecting pretty quickly i mean there's existing things out there like iso un c fact and edifact and things like that early on we're simply trying to figure out what's out there right in in the open space uh but certainly an ebl initiative is massive massive and is an example of what we're trying to talk about here and yet even with that even with a well of course we're going to jump into that space we also still have to make sure that it will work for everybody that it's common that it's open and those kinds of things so we're just early really early in that process at this truly global level but certainly i've i'm following the ebl initiatives and and who's part of that and what that looks like and who's signed on to it and what their commitments are and and and some other examples like that are those companies that you'd want to join and be part of some upcoming events putting their feedback or is that something further down the road where you get you know i'd be interested if you've got access either to alicia or some way to get that to me that's fine i'd love to learn more about any of the ones that you're bringing up i'm not that familiar i've heard a heard of a couple of them certainly the ebl initiative but the specifics of that i'd like to learn that um and so if you can get that to me somehow that would be excellent i think we're just early i think we're just a little early to really start aligning with them or or or going specifically down there we're just kind of in a fact-finding mode at this point and i think that will help us establish our kind of our baseline information okay thank you thank you i'm happy to share that with dale and share contact information then to build on your good information about what our proactive plan is to engage so there's a couple of ways there's a couple of ways uh one will be the first one will be with gsm i we're going to publish our our point of view our feedback on where we think the market is today that will go out to public review in um november um we are opening that up to non-members for review you can go on to gbbc i think we did a call out yesterday maybe greg if you could find that or send it out to alicia later uh to get reviewers or or um to raise your hand and say you're interested that would be the first one publicly separately we've got um i don't know some 30 companies within gbbc both um private and public companies that have a significant interest in um engaging on this with us and that will scale this even further we've got a lot of experience doing this with the sustainability side many some of you may have worked on our iwa project around uh voluntary carbon markets we're following a similar blueprint and then the end game would be to um get that collaboration where we can but also to know where we disagree or we're just not going we're going to put it in a parking lot because some of the side bars we've had over the last couple of years are things that we can't necessarily solve they're maybe regulatory driven or they're specific to a country we're looking for the common language that is going to be consistent across a global scope and and and and then prioritize that like dale said there we looked a couple weeks ago there were potentially 900 different touch points we're still quantifying that but um getting feedback on who's out there what they're doing um yes please send that and it will continue to collect that um as well other questions adwin yeah so uh hi i'm edwin um i know you guys mentioned talking about developing an android like standard um my question is is there a vision for what blockchains the standard will be built on such as like hyperledger fabric or quorum uh or is it still too early to tell you're on mute dale sorry i was trying to be polite and i was just rude um i would tell you that from the early days from a fedex point of view we have been technology agnostic as i said we've used hyperledger we've used ethereum uh ultimately if you flip it around and you look at it from for example us customs or department of homeland security um i think they are thinking of this they're actually kind of blockchain agnostic whether you use blockchain or not either way from their point of view they're thinking of it a it has to be interoperable uh b uh they're going down uh pretty quickly going down the identity path so i am who i say i am and i can prove that whether that's verifiable credentials or whatever the case may be so um our sense uh and therefore my sense from a bitter point of view is agnostic uh we think a number of things are going to happen the broader things would be interoperable the broader things would be open we've said open since 2019 we think that's where that's going um and it has to scale for everyone it has it has to work for everyone so however that goes again i am on the business and strategy side not on the technical side um so many here on this call may have broader perspectives from from that point of view or ideas on how they think that's actually going to happen but that's what we've been saying for several years so i'll stick with that yeah and i'll build on that dale that thank you um the on the technical side or the the platform side um we need a foundational layer of what the data is that would would would go across different platforms so we want to stay on the open source you know platform agnostic side and again the examples of of things that do work toward implementation are as if you can get a baseline of data taxonomy of what things are called so there's consistency and there's a standard published or at least a taxonomy published um that moves you from and when on the private or the proprietary implementation side for whatever the the um technology is um you instead of starting at at point a and going to your market or to your customer or to your partner base and saying you know a is this bcd all the different things that have to happen for you to plug into our platform here's the bit of standard or here's the iwa whatever it like we agree on the first 20 20 items you've already scaled significantly and we've seen that on the iwa projects where they've gone from zero to 50 so to speak miles an hour zero to 60 uh you know and then cut that half cut that in half uh you know the next time on version two so we envision version one is just a taxonomy open source baseline what things are called how they work what the standards are that are in place what's not in place and then publish what those standards are and then the groups can take them and move into um move into any kind of implementation proprietary or not yeah i would i would follow up with one final comment which is this is a group of experts on this call you may have knowledge that would be helpful to us if you're aware of those things that already exist in the open space again please get those to alicia and get them to us we're still gathering some of these things um and anything and everything would be helpful i think we're all envisioning a similar future here but uh we would love to learn from you as well we thank you just want to go where i had a quick question as well so i spent about eight years living and working in china and one of the challenges i saw there both when i was working with uni double on industrial development and also teaching international business undergrads MBAs working with other companies on global trade was often a lack of inclusion on global conversations in the chinese with chinese companies you mentioned before that gpbc does have a group of a group working in asia i'm wondering are you speaking with alibaba are you working with jd.com these giants of trade that do so much on infrastructure and logistics and i know they're doing more around the region as well southeast asia east asia and i one of my concerns i mean back in the u.s. is i'm still not always seeing the conversation being inclusive of companies that are leading the way in other parts of the world yeah i'll take that so yes we do as gvbc we have a global footprint but until we have a specific use case it's hard to know where to go after so but i will give you an example in digital finance we have a significant relationship across the globe all the way from technical standards to policy standards or regulatory standards and you can go to the gbc gvbc website gdf area or gdf.org and you can get an idea of the big picture of how we do that globally then if you move it into to our standards on sustainability once we have a point of view and feedback globally from our core group of of worker of work groups then we have something meaningful to go out to the marketplace with and we have those relationships and like dale said we'll collect those and do the same we'll follow the same model on on this as well um perfect example is a significant opportunity is in place right now um in the uk which um we won't get into the specific details but we reached out to us yesterday dale put a point of view together we see ways we can actually plug in place so once you start announcing to the marketplace as you know what you do people can either agree or disagree but at least you have a point of conversation to start on so totally agree and that was dale's point from the beginning that international space stationally happens when you have an international engagement great thank you but we might look to you for more background on china and asia glad to have happy to have that discussion have a few minutes left any other questions okay well if you do think of any or think of us when you come up with the standards or you know something related that you thought we'd be interested in um please send it out to us at least you could send the presentation out uh let me send you the the um pdf version it'll be easier for you to send out i will send you the 21 meg meg um right file thank you are you comfortable with me also posting that to the agenda page to the notes page for the meeting yeah yeah i'll just send you the powerpoint or the pdf version after this call perfect thank you so much and dale paul this has been very informative i want to thank both of you for coming on also for having alan and greg here um you shared a lot i know i'm going to be thinking over this for a while and i will probably have follow-up questions i imagine some of our members might as well i see david raising his hand david no he's i think he's applauding okay david i didn't even know there wasn't a plod thing on here i have to the reactions thing to see that but thank you so please reach out if you need to or want to and we appreciate the time great again thank you so much this has been this has been very educational we appreciate it great thank you guys thanks everyone take care bye keep up the good work thank you too