 Right now you're all set right Chair knows the time is six oh six. I called this meeting of the Amherst zoning Board of Appeals to order My name is Steve judge as EBA chair. I want to welcome everyone to this meeting We'll begin with the roll call of ZBA members Steve judge is present mr. Craig Meadows present Mr. Emerald Henry here Mr. Philip white And miss Hilda green ball. Yeah The quorum is present Also attending the public hearing tonight is mr. Rob. What's illa planner for the town and Miss Christine Brestrup planning director for the town We also have Carol and Murray our Council on this matter from KP law also attending and The applicants will introduce themselves who are presenting well owners themselves later Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 extended by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 This meeting will be conducted via remote means Members of the public who wish to observe the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone No in-person attendance of the members of the public will be permitted But every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means The zoning Board of Appeals is a quasi judicial body that operates under the authority of chapter 40a But the general walls general laws of the Commonwealth for the purpose of promoting the health safety convenience and General welfare of the inhabitants of the town of Amherst in accordance with the provisions of chapter of Massachusetts general laws chapter 40a an article 10 special permit granting authority of the zoning Bylaw this public meeting has been duly advertised And notice there have been posted and mailed to parties of interest All hearings and meetings are open to the public and recorded by town staff And these may be viewed via the town of Amherst YouTube channel and its ZBA web page The procedure is as follows The petitioner presents the application to the board for during the hearing after which the board will ask questions for Clarification or to gather additional information After the board has completed his questions the board will seek public input The public speaks with the permission of the chair if a member of the public wishes to speak They should so indicate by using the raised hand function on their screen or by pressing pound nine on their phone The chair with the assistance of the staff will call upon people wishing to speak when you are recognized Provide your name and address to the board for the record all questions and comments must be addressed to the board The board will normally hold public hearings with the information about the project input from the public is gathered Followed by public meetings for each the public meeting portion is where the board Deliberates and is generally not an opportunity for public comment if the board feels it has enough information at time It will decide upon the applications tonight each petition is heard by the board is distinct and evaluated on its own merits And the board is not ruled by precedent tonight's agenda A public hearing on ZBA FY 2024-03 Valley Community Development Corporation Request for a comprehensive permit under Massachusetts General Laws chapter 40 be to construct 30 owner occupied affordable Residential units located in 15 duplex structures Parking areas with 58 spaces common areas and other site improvements on a 9.04 7 acre site Which we crest requested? Requested waivers from the zoning bylaws general bylaws subdivision regulations and sewer water connection approvals at 2040 ball lane map 5a parcel 56 Rn residential neighborhood residents and our LD low density residential zoning districts and FC farm conservation overlay districts This meeting has continued from our last meeting on the subject November 30th, 2023 The topics tonight are stormwater management and stormwater infrastructure design Following that there's a time for public general public comment on any matter not before the board tonight and other business not anticipated within the last 48 hours So before we start Rob has there been any additional submissions since our last meetings So the only additional submission is an email from town engineer Jason skills and I can quickly read the email. Mr. Chairman if that's okay, please do all right So basically Jason skills emailed myself and Chris Brescher up at about 130 this afternoon He states that he didn't have a chance to an in-depth thorough review of the entire application But upon his initial peripheral review, he does not see any glaring issues with the drainage or the site layout for this project Including the proposed utility connections all the drainage calculations appear to be in order and the stormwater management is an overall improvement over existing conditions And I believe there's also did you mention the comment submitted from Aaron Jack? The one I thought we had concluded that the last meeting this was in 1120. Oh, yeah, that's correct. My apologies So that would be that way I think noted last meeting. Yep Um Are there any disclosures by board members? Lastly just to give everybody a heads up our topics coming up For the December 21st meeting is property management income restrictions financials Applicate selection process and local preference and right now we have a tentative meeting scheduled for January 4th That will deal with waivers conditions and findings We may have to go longer than that due to Schedules of board members, but right now that's what the schedule for this application is set for So unless board members have any questions or any Statements to make before we begin. I'd like to ask the applicants to Identify themselves for the record. Let us know who's going to do the presentation I'll give us your name in your address again for the record and we can proceed Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Good evening board. My name is Jessica Allen. I am a project manager at Valley Community Development As tonight we were talking about stormwater and utilities I'm going to pass the presentation to Josh Klein who's with Stonefield engineering and he can walk the board through all the details of the stormwater plan Thank you Good evening. Yes. Josh Klein. I'm a partner with Stonefield engineering and design our address is 120 Washington Street in Salem, Mass Then I you know kind of so we get into it You know, I am a licensed professional engineer in nine states in the Northeast and I have presented in front of zoning boards planning boards conservation commissions across those nine states as well Great. Thank you. You may proceed All right. Well, perfect. I'm going to start with sharing the screen So what we're presenting tonight is this is the illustrative plan That was submitted and kind of we've been talking to For the last kind of several meetings and I'm going to kind of highlight a few items I think we wanted to talk about tonight So I'm going to kind of talk about stormwater first. I think that's the you know, really the important reason We're here and drives a lot of the civil engineering components We're going to talk a little bit about snow storage and then a little bit about earth work And I'm obviously happy to answer questions at any point in time. Feel free. Feel free to stop So if anyone wants to give me the hurry up sign take it I'm going to try to be quick, you know, I don't want to give a total lesson on stormwater But you know, I wanted to kind of drive kind of the intent of the project, you know So, you know, this is you know kind of in our mind. We call it a disturbed site You know, it's not a kind of natural site or a wooded site or an undisturbed site It's disturbed But there's obviously not a lot of impervious surfaces So stormwater is a key component to this project and really, you know Jess and other members of the team would you know state that we've spent a lot of time looking at it You know, we've modeled this in our in civil 3d program So, you know, we're able to kind of look at all different factors in terms of changing elevations changing drainage patterns. What would the impact be We've done two rounds of test pits So we did a preliminary round of test pits to check the soils on site And then we did a second round once we were kind of able to dial in our stormwater facilities a little further So we've we spent a lot of time and energy putting together design and we're really excited to present it I mean this design is really, you know, kind of the peak in terms of mass dp best management practices You know, we're capturing fully infiltrating the site So there are you know, we look at both the city of ambers as well as the mass dp Standards, you know, we call it either bmp's best management practices, but there's a stormwater handbook There's three volumes that we kind of use as our guide when we're designing. There's 10 standards So now we're really going to talk about three of them because they're the kind of the crux of what we look at when we're When we're doing stormwater design So the first big item we'll be touching on is water quality ground water recharge And then quantity is kind of how we shorten it, but it's the idea of peak flow So what I what I think is important to understand about the existing site is there are no stormwater, you know features out there today There's no kind of designated stormwater bmp's. There's no kind of real stormwater control Um, and so really one of the big goals is with this redesign is Instituting those best management practices and make sure that water's not going off to neighbors water's not going off uncontrolled water's being treated um so the site Really is what the elevation is really what's driving a lot of this the site changes from about 25 feet from the bottom Right corner to the top left corner kind of working its way down towards the intersection There's there's pretty much a natural kind of ridge That i'm highlighting on the bottom right hand So you have kind of run off from the site kind of coming down into the mill river Tributary and then the rest of the site really drains kind of to both roads the wetland ditch But ultimately makes its way to an inlet kind of at the corner of pulpit road Which ultimately kind of goes across pulpit road and then makes its way to a another stream There's kind of a bridge that we found we believe they're the that's where the culvert kind of comes out in so Really what we kind of talk about is points of interest or poi So those are really the two main areas that we analyzed if you kind of look into our report So from there what we what we kind of look to do is implement stormwater management practices To meet these state standards So what we've done on this site because we have good soils because we have ground water separation We're able to infiltrate infiltration is the best stormwater practice we can institute You know, it's natural. It's putting water back into the ground. It's naturally filtering it. It's cleaning it It's meeting tss or suspended solids. It's removing kind of those finds from it It also provides kind of natural phosphorus and nitrogen Removal as well, which is something again. We're not required to meet But it's a great practice and something that we're doing through infiltration For example, some states, you know require you to infiltrate if you can Because of the benefits of infiltration Rhode Island would be an example of that They really they see the benefits and the removal of bacteria through infiltration practices So what we do here is we break our stormwater system up into really two components There's the pre-treatment and then the system itself So the goal really was to design the site to kind of naturally reduce flows to mill river And then the the remainder of the site the majority of it goes to the stormwater infiltration system Kind of in the top left corner of the site now there is i'll zoom in there's another small infiltration system That captures some of the road and one of the challenges is kind of this driveways A little bit too low that we're not able to move stormwater from the driveway to this system So that's why you have this kind of smaller self-contained Kind of system and we also kind of try and preserve this natural area between the two systems And kind of you know kind of to put that connectivity would really cause a lot of disturbance That we don't feel is necessary Um, so what we do is in the majority of the the site area where where the homes will be We have a conveyance system that captures the water We have hoods and sumps so that the water kind of gets that natural pre-treatment Then eventually it's discharged into a floor bay that allows the suspended solids to kind of drop And then it overflows into our stormwater infiltration basin This project will be capturing And infiltrating the entirety of the 100-year storm That's really important to note because we only are required to capture and infiltrate the water quality storm event Or the groundwater recharge storm event and we're not only doing that We're capturing the two-year the 10-year and the 100-year storm events That we as engineers kind of look at and with all of that stormwater that's now being captured and put into the ground You know, we also have the necessary safety measures in place to ensure that this this stormwater infiltration system You know will have the longevity That that is required for the project There is an emergency Spillway that's provided so kind of in case of that emergency moment We want to make sure water can get safely out and it was kind of strategically placed kind of outside of the 75-foot buffer, but it's kind of kind of directed towards this existing inlet there today So again, there's no houses or Anything downstream of this stormwater management system We kind of strategically place it on site in an area that would allow it in an overflow condition to go to an inlet What we also do is kind of part of this kind of overall design and we have a sheet and in a sweep that's been prepared Is soil erosion control is a key key component that we look look at So we're incorporating kind of standard practices in terms of temporary measures Silt fence, you know construction entrances dust control kind of all the the measures that are outlined in the handbook volume three We also will be kind of instituting permanent measures. Um, you know, we have you know seeding Landscaping areas kind of weekend. There are impervious areas that provide that natural permanent stabilization And then kind of in terms of the long term You know kind of in working with town staff, so we'll work with Jason and Aaron We developed an initial operations and maintenance manual to kind of be able to maintain For the community to maintain these stormwater systems It's something that we we're going to kind of work with them to kind of fine tune And it's typically kind of finalized as part of the construction process But that will allow this community to take care of these systems in the future You know, they'll they'll have an you know a booklet that outlines exactly what needs to be done on typically a quarter quarterly You know by annually or annually basis There are kind of different practices that are taken or inspections to kind of ensure You know all the components of the system Are kind of functioning properly So that's that's really the the high level if I had to kind of sum it up into a couple sentences You know today there are no stormwater management practices on site You know, we understand that we're introducing development. We're introducing impervious So what our goal was is we've now captured all of that runoff that we're creating and we're holding it and we're Putting it in the ground by putting in the ground We're naturally filtering it and we're reducing peak flows To ensure that there's no adverse impact to the public right of ways around our sites as well as any kind of neighbors In all directions, so I'm happy kind of take a pause if there are any kind of Specifics or if or if chair you'd prefer me go through the whole presentation at the end. I'm happy to do either Do you have um, I guess if we open up for some questions now you have more that you want to present to us Mr. So I would I would touch on snow storage and earth work. I'd like to do that Okay, so why don't we why don't we do that those will be even a little quicker? I don't want to Well, let's just see if anybody has a quick question right now mr. Klein and I don't I don't see anybody's hand up All right, so go ahead and let's talk about this. That was something we brought up last meeting. So let's talk about the snow storage That's great. So we we took some time. We sat down with the team and kind of refined the areas a little bit Based on kind of the landscaping plan That's kind of in place. So what I've done in kind of a teal color. I've highlighted four areas on site Which would be the kind of designated snow staging or snow storage areas It's about 5500 square feet that you're seeing You know just to give the board a sense, you know in in new hampshire and main some municipalities kind of look to provide a factor of about 10 for storage. So if you have a You know a 10,000 square foot parking lot you provide a thousand square feet of storage So to give a reference point. We have about 25 Thousand square feet of like parking and driveways that would be kind of maintained, you know in these main areas So that's about 2,500 square feet. So you're what you see on the plans about double that so kind of 20 of those areas You know A lot of times when we go north, we'll do more refined You know Calculations, but we did also do another gut check kind of looking at again those total areas kind of assuming a 12 inch 12 inch event And kind of applying a typical compaction factor There's more than enough room to kind of capture those storm events So, you know what? You know What we typically see in these snow staging areas and these types of developments are you know through property management You know, obviously there are big storms that come and we can't control those But we don't really like to design for a 24 to 36 inch storm event, you know at that point You know additional equipment and movements required. I mean any Site obviously, you know requires a little bit of staging So what we're looking at, you know, are those repeat events like you know If we have a two to three inch storm event two to three inch storm event two to three inch storm event in a row You know, is there enough room to hold the snow on site and kind of incorporating these these four areas? There's plenty of room, you know, we don't have any kind of concern And what we find a lot of times with these types of parking lots is, you know that Property managers will use equipment like bobcats or small Smaller vehicles that they're able to kind of kind of maneuver and pick up and use like a bucket to move snow Um, so that is one of the advantages. There are some other open spaces, you know If there were a large event, you know an unforeseen large event You know, there would be there would be the ability for a bobcat or a bucketed vehicle to be able to move snow kind of into Like an unused area on site, but again, we're we're not that concerned, you know, given the amount of space You know, one of the nice things is we have this nice area Along the driveway amount of you. So even if you know areas filled up over here You know the property management company could move snow from the from these areas and use this as a larger staging area That was one of our plans kind of with this new layout So overall we think this, you know, hopefully kind of addresses some of the questions and concerns from the last meeting Are you still looking at using some of the the Hatched parking spaces as temporary snow Holding areas or those have you changed your mind on that? So the the spaces aren't being used but a snow storage area is shown behind them Which is really nice because again, they're temporary We also kind of extended it behind the ADA accessible spaces because they're typically the least used So potentially if there's one open they could kind of go and put snow behind there or use an access aisle If they have a smaller Loader and then we show another small area that could be accessed, you know From the dumpster area and from the striped area on the other side So none of the spaces are shown. We're not going to be staging in any of the parking spaces Um, so there's plenty of room kind of outside of there. Got it I think that answered some of the questions that were Were raised at the last meeting Perfect Great So what I can I can do In kind of touch on last, um, I know it was that it was kind of talked about earthwork Um, and this was kind of an exhibit that was that was submitted a soil movement exhibit or earthwork exhibit um Not the you know, if you don't see these every day, they're a little tricky sometimes to read So I'll zoom in to kind of help in an area So we have pluses and minuses pluses are areas that we're filling or the proposed surface is higher than what the existing grade is And then minuses are in kind of areas that we call cut or export where we're lower than the existing surface So green is is fill blue is cut So what you're seeing here is a majority of a fill of a fill condition Now it is common when you look at surface to surface to always have a little bit of fill because we have to remember that sidewalks Foundations pavement sections all have stone underneath them. So a lot of times what we're trying to perfect world You know, we almost want to set our proposed surface About a foot above existing because we want to account for the stone section that goes under the pavement Now we do have a case where you know, we have a challenging site. I think I mentioned in the beginning We have 23 feet of grade change across the site Um, so we're not in an ideal situation. Unfortunately, it's not a flat site. It's not a rectangle We're not in a perfect world. So You know, we went through a bunch of different iterations kind of with the team and kind of talked about weighed out our options and um, this current option You know creates kind of fill conditions kind of in the housing areas One of the big reasons for that is we want the houses to have make ensure that runoff is draining away from them So we don't want to kind of sink these houses down and have runoff kind of running into the kind of the areas We want to be kind of shedding water away from the homes um, we also um, are kind of proposing a gravity sewer system Um, and based on the grade change in order to kind of provide those minimum slopes for The gravity sewer design some of the homes on the right hand side of the screen We had to kind of lift a little bit. I mean again, they're they're kind of within a natural tolerance of what's around on There's no retaining walls. There's no steep slopes But you know, we had to elevate them a little bit just to ensure that we can get the sewer out gravity Now as we get into a construction document, it may make sense, you know, to, you know, slightly lower A couple of the homes and incorporate potentially a small pump For that individual home But again, the tension here is we're kind of using a gravity fed system With it. So again, you can see kind of some of the blue areas with the stormwater basin You know, you're feeling a little bit on one side You're cutting a little bit on other side to kind of balance it Um, and again where the area where the homes is is where you're seeing A little bit of that fill and that's really to kind of count for some of the factors noted So happy to go into more depth. I don't know if there's any questions on the on the exhibit that was provided I appreciate you doing that. I looked at this today and I didn't quite understand how to read it and you've explained it to me I kind of thought a blue and green meant plus and minus, but I wasn't quite sure and this But I do have one question and that is what's the depth of the containment basin that's up on the I guess it'd be the north Western side up here. What's the depth of that and how long So how much water is going to be in there and how long will that water stay? We're not creating a lake in other words. What how long is it going to be water going to be standing in that area? No, this is definitely an infiltration system. So water will not be bonding I'm just pulling up the exact draw time. So it has to drain for the requirement within 72 hours Let me just grab the exact number. I want to say we're closer to you know, 24 to 30 For the 100 year event, which is pretty good. I mean, you know, again, we have 72 hours to do it And the during the largest peak event I had that number written down The larger basin would hold about 22,000 cubic feet You know for reference, it is a big number when we think about, you know, filling up our car. I mean, that'd be 165,000 gallons But again the It's not it's a very shallow system. So I just wanted to kind of zoom in Let me reshare and I'll zoom in On it So that was one of the nice design intents of this system is we've made it a very shallow system So the bottom of the system Is it about 92 and a half and the top is I believe about 94 and a half. So it's okay A very shallow system So it'll kind of fill out fill up. But then again it drains and In about let's see the complete infiltration times 25 And can I just jump in on one quick point too is that a part of the intent on keeping the grades Pretty slight is that we were really trying to incorporate this into the natural landscape We didn't want somebody to be driving by the site and to see this giant industrial looking stormwater infiltration basin. So the design team Collaboratively spent a lot of time in trying to design something that was Biomorphic in shape kind of really blended into the landscape. So that's another reason to have some of those More smoothed out grades rather than something very dramatic The other reason is just safety what you've done is Seems to me that you created is something that is Even for a two-year event will drain very quickly For a two-year event, it's hard to plan for that But for a two-year event, you're going to be draining very quickly and You tell me it won't create a problem for Children walking into the into the the infiltration basis, right? Am I correct? Correct. That's that was my Concern Okay, I have one other question regarding drainage If you look at the future of the red outlined area the future community garden area So under most circumstances not after immediately after a rain event Is that going to be a dry area to walk through? Is it going to be wet and squishy when you walk through it or do you envision that being? Like your yard, it's going to be after a rain. It'll be wet for a while But it'll be easy to walk through and it won't be a A mushy area so that it could be used for a community garden could be used for clay area could be used for other kinds of things Is that correct? So the that is correct. I mean the red area is kind of that natural meadow So it definitely dries out. It definitely Especially with the slope. It's not like an area that ponds So it's kind of what you would typically see in a meadow or a field and then the rest of the site will kind of be all new You know that no mo Material that was talked about which is the same thing that that was one of the reasons with the design and ensuring there's proper flow Is we don't have areas where water is going to pond and create those mucky conditions You know the site is designed that all runoff is going to Either you know inlets that where it's being captured Or kind of directly to the forebay of the infiltration basin to avoid creating those kind of mushy wet spots If I may just piggyback Mr. Judge's question very very brief. I saw that miss best Green bomb has her hand up. So looking at the community garden and snow removal Is the snow? Does it look I'm just trying to understand is snow removal like pushing towards the sci-fi community garden Isn't there a concern there to steve's point that it may become like mushy over flooded with water when snow melts You know, it's it's such a small amount You know, we're not, you know, again We're not talking like a shopping center where you have these huge piles that sit and take weeks and weeks and weeks to melt You know, these are these are pretty small parking areas and you know, what what is nice about the site? It has some natural grade onto it So the even these snow areas as they melt they'll push out So it won't be any different than you know when you if you you know See a parking lot in an apartment complex or your home and you shovel your driveway And you have some piles that take a little bit longer to melt and they might be a little bit wet in the spring time But they're we're gonna dry kind of just you know as as a normal site would Um, it's green bomb. You have your hand up Please you're muted Sorry about that. Um a couple of questions on the other picture you showed of the cut in the fill I wanted to know what the units of measurement were on that was that feet or is that inches and curious about The volume that's being moved around do we have to make a finding on the perception of the bylaw that relates to Earth moving around I can't remember how many thousand Square feet up, but what are the what are these numbers here they feed or inches So these are feet And and so You know the volume that's being on the side It's to the yeah, if you could zoom in on that chart gosh, I think that would be helpful So what what we look at is you know it again things get a little complicated But to simplify it we have a surface to surface which are kind of like existing in the proposed You know finished grades we'll call it and then we look at the removal of material because you know existing Foundations and slabs and pavement has to get taken out And then we look at new material being brought in so that was kind of that conversation about like underneath the pavement We have to bring in gravel To put under the pavement so it's new material that needs to be used and then we kind of sum that up Where you'll see kind of that that surface to surface, you know get modified. So again overall It is a fill site. So it's about 6600 cubic yards Of fill so associated with the project So is that more or less that's in our bylaw where we have to make a finding So actually i'm i'm looking into that right now hilda. So i'm looking for that section of the bylaw to To verify that but if worst-case scenario If it's something that has to be addressed in the bylaw, that's another waiver that could be added Yeah, that's important But I will look into that right now and then I guess other folks can ask their questions and I can report back once I Find yeah, I have a second one about the um, you got the snow piles Close to to where the infiltration basin is What about cars that come in there that are covered with salt and grime from roads other than the ones that are on site Which somewhere I saw it said they can't use salt but have to use Whatever was specified I can't remember but but so cars come in and bring debris from other areas that Does that have any Any chemicals that may be on the car from somewhere else have any impact on the infiltration basin? I guess i'm trying to ask No, that's a great question. So, you know kind of in Locating some of our snow storage areas, you know, one of the keys is you can't just take all your snow and push it Right into an infiltration basin. So That's why the largest Kind of area is kind of shown by the driveway It's a pretty small area and part of it would be kind of within the pavement But this area does kind of drain down to the floor bay So the idea would be if there's any kind of sediment or things like that You know, they would be kind of part of that natural kind of maintenance cycle associated with the basin um And you know again, you know having You know a few different snow storage areas on site allows these areas to stay a little bit smaller So you're not kind of seeing these large kind of piles next to the stormwater facility So, yeah, there's not much chance of Amounts of salt getting into the system. Is that what you're saying? I think I don't think it's a a big concern You know for us kind of with the location again You know one of the the reasons you're not seeing kind of the snow storage Being located in directly kind of in the infiltration area And I'm kind of keeping it outside of that of the infiltration system So hilda, I did um find out the amount of fill that triggers the special permit requirement and According to section 5.10 the bylaw it says If they're raising the existing grade of any portion of the property 5,000 square feet or more in area by an average of two feet or more Um, that's what requires a special permit. So josh, would you say that you guys are above that threshold or below it? Yeah, I probably said 5,000 square feet area. Yeah, and then by average of two or more feet in terms of raising the elevation Or of phil being put on the site we're probably Yeah, I would I would say we probably in in a few areas would trigger that now. I think if you took the whole site In consideration, we probably wouldn't but if you just looked at a couple 5,000 square foot areas You probably trigger it, but the whole site probably averages out below that But a waiver might be a conservative kind of approach to that I agree It probably would it would be recommended if it's not already a waiver We should include that waiver from section 5.10 of the zoning bylaw for phil Uh, just so we can get that I might already have it in there, but I will double check Yeah, just in case just so we don't I might have flagged it already. Yep. I'll make a note of it I didn't look at all of the waivers again and if I might ask mr. Klein the um The area the small area of the infiltration base is kind of the step down I would call it before it goes to the larger area That's there in order to um allow Solids contaminants and other things to to fall down there, right? And before it gets into the storm water basin Is that sort of a filtering system? Correct. Yes, it's kind of like it's you know Retreatment is probably the buzzword we use but the idea is it you know Kind of allows the water to slow down and settle so you get those sediments to kind of drop out before it flows into the infiltration system And you have that both at the large infiltration basin and also in the smaller one right by the um the entrance Correct. Yes, it's a little a little bit smaller, but there's a for bay Kind of right here and then the infiltration system is the triangle And this one's really shallow. This is about a Maybe a foot and a half and like a foot of water it drains in like 13 hours. I think in 100 years but getting back to what I was talking about With the salt whatever might come off the parking lot. Does does that get cleaned out when you do your Quarterly cleanouts or whatever what in other words what's involved with the maintenance system for this? You might as well explain that while you're on Yeah, so there's you know, there are our recommendations and practices we have to follow from the MAST EP Um, what kind of highlighting them, you know, the big item is You know, typically inspections is the first, you know, kind of measure we incorporate So you either have a contractor or a licensed property manager. There's kind of different qualifications from the state You know, they would go out and review the structures review the systems and kind of determine the condition Um, and then what we what we set in this o and m manual is parameters that then require cleaning of the system So, you know, it might require manual a lot of times it's it can be done manually You know through kind of shoveling raking things of that nature to kind of pick up the sediment the debris And then in some cases you can bring, you know vacuum trucks out to kind of vacuum sediment Um, but there's a a host of different, you know items that are incorporated You know what we we wouldn't recommend But it's kind of more I think what they a lot of times they do Like we wouldn't recommend full on I think you hear the term street sweeping and you see the vehicles So that's something we would recommend for this But what we put a lot of times in the o and m's is like hand sweeping or kind of hand cleanup Like the property manager will be responsible, you know, kind of in the spring to sweep and pick up debris Um and to kind of ensure that it's maybe like we can call it like a hand Street sweeping which is another nice practice to kind of avoid, you know What you what you kind of see sometimes is that salt and things kind of build up and that they can kind of come in Enhanced sweep it and kind of remove it from the site My the history in this town the survive. I'm bringing this up is Particularly places like log town road. I think the huge area there that's supposed to absorb the water It was never maintained. It just went back to forest so who makes sure anybody in town makes sure that this Inspection, etc happens I believe we have to submit an inspection report as part of the o and m plan and that gets submitted to the town once the one the Structures are cleaned and inspected correct josh Correct. Yes. There's uh, there's a annual kind of submission. That's made that kind of captures all the different inspections that are made throughout the year and Would that be done by the property that that be part of the property managers contract? Yes, it would and um, and rob would that be something that we need to condition? that that's a provision of the property managers contract or Is that best practices? um, so That sounds like something that the concom would probably put in their conditions for their noi um But we can always I could discuss that with rob mora and see what he thinks Um, usually on the storm water side of things and I believe you guys have a Did you guys already have a public hearing date for that just to go for your notice of intent? Yes, we did and it got continued until January 10th, I believe because of yesterday's meeting so, um, I guess whatever conditions they propose to you guys, um The zoning board would usually want to review those conditions And um incorporate some of them into their own conditions So usually if stuff is covered in the notice of intense Um, or sorry the order of conditions, um, the zoning board wouldn't include that in their own set of conditions But would reference that the apcon has to abide by those order of conditions from the conservation commission as well as These conditions of the comprehensive permit So I guess to answer your question, steve We should probably wait to see what conservation commission does And then just go from there I just wanted to make sure there was a way to avoid what um, this green bomb and talked about which is that It people would forget to do it and so that would I just want to make sure that that's part of the So I'll also know company and the home ownership the homeowners association Yeah, I'll also note that the master deed will reference The the book and page of the comprehensive permit and it will be tied to the master deed which runs with every single Uh unit in this property. So, um, so I think it would be prudent um Rob that maybe the the the comp permit does at least reference The concom order of conditions that way somebody can like track it through the Their uh deeds if needed I think um, mr. Chair one thing we should also consider too so We could also condition and this could probably be discussed in the next meeting but uh, we could condition that um that the uh perspective buyers get a copy of Both sets of conditions. So they're aware or at least the home or association gets both set of conditions So they're aware of what's currently allowed on the property when they're making any sort of future decisions Just something to keep in mind, but again, that's for a different I don't want to go too much into that And valley will be part of the board of managers on the condo association until we until we sell A certain percentage of the units and so we will Be responsible for some of that property management work and can Advise the new homeowners as such as we transition the property over to the homeowners Okay It's something that can be that will be handled. It sounds yes. Yes. It will be handled And if it the I mean for for what I think it's worth that helps the the storm water practices and systems that we look to incorporate Are very simple and very You know kind of commonplace in the state, which is nice, you know, you don't have complicated, you know proprietary treatment devices or You know gravel wetland areas that are really difficult to maintain We tried to keep it and this was a big concern kind of working with valley and jest, right? As we wanted to make sure that that annual maintenance is you know, kind of cost effective So we're very lucky to be able to infiltrate because these are very I mean they're easy to maintain systems They're very simple and there's something that most any property manager, you know, can handle. It's not something tricky Which is really nice I want to let other people I had another question But I want to let other board members ask before I ask my next question I don't want to dominate the conversation Mr. Then mr. Klein, can you there's there's one sheet that shows all the different Physical structures that you're going to use to to have water. Yeah, that's it so Almost when I was looking at this, it seems most of these are just pipes, right? Is that correct? Most of these are pipes which goes to your point at being simple And then it directs it down to lower areas or or right to the To I guess to the pre fill area Whatever Whatever that the staging let's call it a staging here because the forebay is the forebay. Okay the forebay It directs it to that. Do you have any pumps or anything more complicated and where are those located if you do? No, it's a very a very simple gravity system The reason I'm asking is that we have a pump I had some experience with with pumps and it can be a mess when they get screwed up they get filled and It's just it can be a mess and I'll note that that's part of why um We were okay with the idea of adding some additional soil It is it adds expense to the project But our preference is to have at least for the sanitary A gravity system rather than a pump system because in valley's experience in the past those pumps can be As you noted difficult to maintain things get clogged. They become a an operational maintenance nightmare So it really was in our best interest to connect to the existing system. That's on ball lane Rather than do some convoluted pumping system that could cause problems for the homeowners down the road And it's really important to keep this as as If fish as least expensive as possible For these for the homeowners for the homeowners correct. Yep other questions from members of the board regarding the the stormwater plans Yes Yeah, the screen bomb Um, I can't read this plan. It's the one with the pipes and everything It's too complicated to see and I tried looking on the big one. I couldn't figure it out What happens with the water coming off the roofs of the houses So the the roofs are Going to be so let's see if we had a good example yet shown um So we're looking at what's up Equals ff is finished floor So finished floor is kind of the the floor the first floor of the home. So the roofs There are going to be kind of gutters on roofs. So they'll come down in downspouts So we're looking at two options kind of with the architectural team. So either the um roof leaders will connect directly into the pipes Or they could discharge to grade because we've the way we've graded the site Which would allow it to then drain to the inlets onsite. So kind of to On this map the the drains from the house Yeah, we typically don't show downspouts. Um, but again there would be in other words There's no foundation Of curtain brand anything like that They're probably there probably will be foundation drains ultimately. I mean slab on grade construction But that's usually specified in the structural engineering drawings like that are done for the for building permits Okay, so curtain grinds on part of this Correct Yeah, what we're looking at is the capturing and the treatment of the storm water runoff Um versus kind of the management of the foundation systems of the building I guess so Take your word for it. Mr. Klein. Do you have other things you wish to present to us tonight? Um, I'll kind of you know at this point, hopefully it wraps everything up I don't just I don't know if you wanted to touch on Kind of the area in red tonight or not or if we're gonna talk about any of the Um, we can just let the board know that the design team met earlier this week to review all of the comments from the last meeting And one of the things that we've come to is that we're going to designate Generally that area that's identified in red as a future community facilities area So those community facilities could be a community garden. It could be a community house. It could be a pavilion It could be a fire pit. It could be a taut lot. It could be a playground It could be whatever the community members want it to be But we'll label it as community facilities. That way it kind of captures everything Um, and so that is where we're going to be designating For those facilities And you'll see that on a future site plan once we get all final revisions. We're kind of going back and forth with concom So, um, you know, we'll do one final big set of revisions and submit that to the board once we've wrapped up with concom Uh, one of the things that I did want to ask is I noted in erin's November 20th memo. She had some concerns about the o and m plan. She had some concerns about Things that weren't answered yet. And I think it was part of it was it was preliminary It hadn't all been settled the part of it was also I think a continuing negotiation between the concom And you are at least a discussion between the concom and you so, um Those things are going to be dealt with on the 10th. Is that correct? Yeah, so we had a preliminary meeting with, um, erin and jason Um to discuss all of those comments that erin provided we met with her on monday morning Um, we walked through everything. I think that we've addressed everything to her satisfaction. It just needs to be formalized um, and so we'll josh is going to be putting together a formal Memo response and addressing all of those concerns, but I think we've pretty much hashed everything out josh Do you am I misinterpreting anything or do you agree? Nope. Yeah, that's that's correct So just for the benefit of the of the other board members For the most part a lot of this this storm water and the runoff Um is Much of it is governed by state law, which we can't waive Some of it is is governed by municipal by amherst bylaw Which we could waive if that's what we wanted to do But we tend to the board has tended to in the past Always deferred to the concom and others departments when they have recommendations for the A specific project like this So we'll see it. Um, we'll see the com com Recommendations we'll see that what they agree to what they've um, they've negotiated with the applicant But I anticipate that we will find what they do Make sense and we'll probably just adopt that or reference that But, you know, we have the ability if we don't like it if we are troubled by it To override and to waive part or to disagree with part of their Um recommendations that deal with only the municipal bylaws of the the town bylaws not the state law provisions So that's just yep. I'll note that we're meeting the local wetlands bylaw So we reviewed that with erin and there's no waivers that would need to be requested because we're actually meeting it So it's designed it's designed and is meeting the local Good local bylaw. Yep All right Great. I have no further questions. How about other board members? staff Mr. Klein or miss allen. Do you wish to say anything more? I guess I would just Not directly on the stormwater Issue but I would Remind you that, you know, we had a couple of questions from Last that we're I'm I'm sure you're still looking at whether it was the light fixtures or other things that had been brought up We can talk about we can deal with that either if you're ready to talk about it now Or we can talk about it later when you've had a chance You haven't had a lot of time since our last meeting Sure, we actually did submit additional supplemental information to Mr. Rochella this morning. So Um We did submit. Uh, I Submitted a response memo to all of the planning planning board comments questions. So that has been provided Um, I we also submitted a lighting fixture. So there's three different options that we've provided um for discussion of the board Um, we also submitted a revised shed design Um, and we have submitted updated building footprints Which include an expanded um outdoor storage area So those were the elements that were submitted at like noon this morning today So it was a little last minute wasn't able to get into your meeting packet So we can either discuss them and it'll be sort of fresh and new for you Or we can wait till the next meeting and you can have it in your Packet and take the time to to look at it. So it's it's to the discretion of the board whatever you'd prefer I would prefer Most to be able to look at it before we discuss it and I think it'd be much more valuable that way I haven't had a chance to look at that. Okay, sure. No problem Um, did we did we did you send it out? No, not yet. Uh, so I will forward it to everybody after this meeting And Steve would you rather Discuss those things at the next hearing or would you rather save that for the last? Well, you know, I I think it's optimistic to call January 4th the last since concom is meeting on the 10th So, um, I think we should schedule dealing with that on the fourth It looks to me like we'll have a pretty full agenda on On the 20 from the 21st. Is it the next meeting the 21st? Yep. Yep. That's I think that's going to be a very full agenda And I don't envision that we're going to have a lot of extra time so let's deal with those things by getting them out to the board so we can look at it and then Putting that on the agenda for January 4th I know, um, the only member who won't be present at the January 4th is mr. Meadows who I think was about to to speak to that Oh, all right So, I'll know if uh, mr. Meadows, have you missed any of these meetings yet or have you been present for all of them? Well, depends upon how you look at it last week. I had I was there You were present you were present. Yes, I was present I guess um, we can always figure this out at the at the next meeting, but um, I guess so steve you'd rather just Not have me include these in that meeting packet, but send them to all the board members So people can look at them in that way. Mr. Meadows can if he has concerns, he can relate them to you rob And it can be expressed at the meeting. Yeah And and there might be other things we have to kind of Clean up on the January 4th When do you anticipate discussing the waivers because one of the items that I know that the board requested was a A and r plan of a flag lot so that that could be part of the waiver request And I still need to coordinate that work with a surveyor. I'm working with stonefield on that But we have yet to nail that down So I'd like to at least have some idea of when that's going to be needed so that I can push our surveyors Um, right now we are planning right now. We tend to have the waivers scheduled for january 4th but I think that um That list of waivers is A lot of us, you know, it has to be done any no matter what but it's long and I want to you know, it's very long there's a lot of um And it's typically what we do and we're in our final meeting before we go through all the The conditions and make our findings and everything else so What I would plan is let's try to start on the let's clean up anything that we've had from earlier from our current Meetings Issues that come up where you're going to get back to us or we have further questions. Let's do that on the fourth We can start the waiver process on the fourth Looking through the waivers I anticipate that we'll have a meeting sometime in early february That would be the final meeting or hopefully the final meeting on this Because of schedules for mr. Meadows and myself We will not be able to have um not attend during after january 4th So that's that's how I would like to proceed. I'd like to make the january 4th meeting valuable and worthwhile Do as much as possible in that time and then look to the planning time sometime in early february Okay, so january 4th will be kind of a clean up finalize any last bits meeting start looking at the waivers and then February will be reviewing the decision Finalizing the waiver list and kind of yep. Okay. Okay That's the plan as we're kind of the back of the envelope plan Okay, that sounds good. That sounds good. And then do we need to request an extension like a the question Is in terms of the length of this permitting process? So what was the drop dead date that this permit needed to be Wrapped up by We can talk offline just I want to submit a letter and I just want to make sure I've got the right information That's all so I can look at that for you too But i'm pretty sure caroline if i'm not mistaken. It was like mid january I actually think now it's 180 days from when the public hearing was open and I thought We actually had a little bit longer until April um, I know I I know I calculated that out at some point because we opened this October 29th Actually, was it Was it october? He submitted it in september so that would make sense october 19th was the initial hearing And 180 days. I actually have a calculator as like a go-to I was going to say I I came I have written down here april 15th is our 180 days But you can check me with your calculator go for it Well, that's a day we won't forget them. Nope. Yes Friday april 26th Wow, okay, so I guess no extension needed. Okay. No, great All right good Ms. Brestra, do you have your hand up? Is there anything else you want to add? Yeah, I was just going to suggest that um caroline miss murray and um, mr. Wachilla and I start to work on Uh conditions and findings and you know try to get those together So we can and also, you know waivers make sure that those are all in order So that we will be ready when you're ready to review them because it takes a while to get all those things Correctly worded and we'd want to involve rob mora in that as well. Right I think that makes sense And we want to have them before the board so For a good amount of time so the board can look at them Great Well, I have nothing else regarding storm water and nothing else regarding schedule anybody else have questions If not, um, I would entertain a motion that we continue this hearing until december 21st at 6 p.m Is that correct? That's the right date. Isn't it rob? Okay Do I have a motion? Some more It's moved and seconded I heard too. So I think the second one mr. Meadows is a second Is there any discussion on that motion? If not, um, we'll vote chair votes. I Mr. White Mr. Henry. Hi Mr. Meadows Hi It's green bomb. Hi Votes five nothing passes. We'll reconvene again on this matter on december 21st Did we miss Allen? Thank you very much for your work as always Thank you, mr. Chair. We actually forgot to do public comment for this. Oh my goodness You know, I really do appreciate that Thank you. Thank you You can still even though you voted to continue you can still do your public comments if you want to Yeah, we will we will do but um, but I really appreciate that That's a good catch both mr. Henry and rob. Thank you. Um, if anybody is Interested in public comment, please so indicate by raising your hand or by Um, if you're on a phone, it's pound nine I have No, it's actually star nine if you don't mind my contradicting you Well, I like that because I've been saying it in my introduction wrong for Four or five months now star nine. Okay Lots of lots of good catches here in the last five minutes Not seeing any hands up mr. Chair. Oh, I don't either but I want to make sure we had the opportunity pretty sure a lot of these guys are also from uh, Jessica's team design team. So I don't think they have any questions for us All right. Yep. Most of them are Well, then we also the next public comment period is general public comment on any matter not before the board tonight And if anybody Wants to talk on anything except this application. This is the time to do so With star nine for your phone or the four of the raised hand function on your screen I see no raised hands. I see no public comments All right Next order of business is old business Questions about the schedule or anything else It's the time to ask that I think we're all set We won't prolong this meeting any longer than we have to we all I do actually have one announcement. All right, uh, so it's a quick one I promise, uh So I am I finished making the meeting schedule for next year for 2024 for the board So I did send it to everybody. So when you get the chance, please take a look at it Um, the only thing to note is that The fourth thursday in november is thanksgiving So this past year we we did just one november meeting. I'm doing that Kind of proposing that again for for next year's schedule Um, and then december the meeting is very close to christmas time So, you know board members, we get the chance take a look. Let me know if there's any suggestions people have if you're fine with it as it is Um, we can vote on it at the next meeting on the 14th of december I think hilda has their hand up and I I I'm not a big fan of a december 26 Uh zba meeting. Okay. I don't know maybe other people are more committed than I am but I would take that off rob You're very diligent, but I'm not as diligent as you So would you want just one december meeting as well? Or do you think we should do a different date? You know what I would do is I would put um a date before the week before Put a tentative in case there's something we have to do at the end of the year But hopefully we'll just have one meeting in december Okay I could do that I do have a question When you check when you check that calendar Something I did not do is did you check up for jewish holidays because tonight happens to be a jewish holiday? Yeah, honka It's a long time to convince the select board that we do not like to meet on jewish holidays I can double check on that hilda. I just have to um look at the list and see what the dates are because I know a lot of them From the major ones that we like to ruin the fall, right? And young people and pass over other than other than that families don't usually get involved Okay, some do some don't but So you said you said young people pass over and rosa shawna All right And hanika as well. I'm assuming right? Well, that's tonight But I don't know it for next year What'd you say we should know Rasha, we should know for tonight for next year for shawna hanka and No, it's not an issue for me, but it is for a lot of people That's why we Kept up our battle to add them to the list. It can be noted on the schedule. That's the best way and Yeah, we can go ahead of time We won't accidentally schedule something when we can avoid we can not have a meeting on on a holiday You know We've been added to by pot by a lot of people and it's about way After october to sub All right, any other points questions So rob, what you should do is why don't you? Recirculate those dates. Yep, and we can look at them on I won't be here on the 14th But I will be here for the 21st and we can discuss it then Okay, so you want to push this off to the 21st? Okay, we can do that sounds good But I'm I'm not going to check the calendar Right. Yeah, I will look at those holidays and see what dates they are this year. I got you hilda We did just get a calendar from either hr or someone in the administration that lists all of the Holidays and the religious holidays. So we'll check that Are there any other holidays of people or other dates that people want to avoid having a meeting on if so Just submit them to rob If if you think of one And the other thing I would say is look out and On your schedule for the year. I mean, I know I have Some travel in july that I won't be that I'm going to tell rob about and I won't be able to attend meetings At that point, but if you know ahead of time that you're going to be gone, it's helpful to have that so we can plan for alternates or other kind of Provisions case you're going to be gone or if there's one specific date that almost five people can't ever make We're just not going to have a meeting that day. So that's good to know as well So any extended trips? That'll be nice to know. I know people don't usually plan vacations that far out Sometimes they do sometimes they don't so you know anything you can provide be helpful Great All right We've got it all All right. Thank you everybody. Um carol and thank you very much. Thank you. Good night folks. Good night Do we have a note but we gotta we gotta have a motion to adjourn So I entertain a motion to adjourn. Mr. Meadows moves. Is there a second? Second All right, we've got it. It's moved and seconded. This is not debatable to go to Roll call vote chair votes. Aye. Mr. Meadows. Aye Miss green balm. Aye Mr. White. Aye Mr. Henry. Bye Voters five zero. We are adjourned. Thank you everybody Um, I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening