 Hi, folks. Once again, I have another phenomenal candidate running for Congress in 2020 to introduce you to. Her name is Jessica Scurrain, running against Chris Coons in the state of Delaware for the U.S. Senate. Jessica, thank you so much for coming on the program. Welcome. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. You know, you are one of the few candidates that I've talked to who are actually running for the Senate. So it's a little bit different. You know, the reach is bigger. It's a little bit more of a difficult task in terms of, like, what you have to do with regard to, you know, outreach and the number of people that you have to reach. So tell us why you decided to run against Chris Coons and how you're able to accommodate the changes, you know, given the severity of COVID-19. You know, knocking on doors is really difficult now and you're running a statewide race. So how has your team adapted? Yeah, no, it's a loaded question there. So I decided to run in this race because of the work that I've been doing in the state since I lived here. So I've moved to Delaware 10 years ago. This is where I've made my home and started, you know, my family here. And I first sought to build community in some way. And the way that, you know, I looked to do that was through doing some work through nonprofits. And I volunteered as a tutor and a mentor for young students. And then I got connected with an organization that's a statewide organization that delivers programming to girls from under-resourced neighborhoods to ensure that, you know, they develop self-worth and they recognize that they can find their place in this world and succeed. And that work really made it clear to me that frankly it's just not enough. Because while I was so proud of the work that that nonprofit was able to do, it wasn't changing the fact that there was always another girl ready to come through that door. Because we were not doing the work to actually solve the problems that she was facing in her day-to-day life. And we can't rely on this network of patchwork nonprofits to deliver social services that we need to thrive and survive in our country. You know, nonprofits are filling the gaps that are left by our government that is refusing to adequately care for us. So that's what got me kind of off the sidelines and recognizing that a lot of the things that people in Delaware support are not being championed by our current senator. In fact, he is standing in the way of the progress that we are demanding and that we need. When I talk about Medicare for All, for example, that is a policy that is supported by upwards of 68% of people in Delaware, but our senator tells us it's not possible. He uses all of the language that has been put out by the right wing and insurance companies to say, this will be too expensive, it will cause rationing of care, you won't like it, people like their private plans, and to scare people. But people still want it. Same thing goes for a Green New Deal. In a state like Delaware, we are already facing climate crisis and we are the lowest lying state in the country. And we have a senator who puts forward plans that fly in the face of what climate scientists are telling us, who tell us we need to get to net zero emissions by 2030. He proposes small ideas that maybe get us there by 2050. But 60% of Delawareans support a Green New Deal. So I am running to actually support the things that Delawareans are already demanding and to relieve the senator of his duties because we need someone who's actually going to lead on the things that Delawareans need to improve our lives and to make the lives of working people in our state better. So you did ask about COVID and I want to touch on that. And I want to touch on a little bit about what you started out with because you make the point that this is a Senate race and it's statewide race. But in a state like Delaware, that's very different. This is not a statewide race in Texas or California. It's a statewide race in a state that has 900,000 people. So our state is smaller than some congressional districts. And when we look at the dynamics of this race, this is an incredibly winnable seat. This is the most winnable Senate seat for leftist and progressive policies because we are talking about a, for example, the last Senate primary, 84,000 votes in that primary. That's very different than what we have seen in a lot of Senate races that we have come really close in and haven't pushed over the edge. So we see this as an incredible opportunity, not something that's daunting because there's a real opportunity here to connect with the voters that we need to connect to and turn them out and win this race. And we've translated the way we're doing that. You know, we launched this campaign in November of last year and from day one, we're doing voter contact. We were out knocking doors. We had throughout the winter, you know, Saturdays were 25 people were showing up even though it was 20 degrees out to knock on doors because that's how engaged people were and how passionate they were about this campaign. And what we had to do is translate that to phone banking. And that's where we've been instead. We're still making incredible amounts of progress there. We had our best week of phone banking last week made something like 35,000 dials. So we're increasing and continue to scale up and do the voter outreach that we have to do to win this race, even in the face of coronavirus. Yeah, this is really exciting because, you know, running in a smaller state, it makes it really possible and like having another leftist attain power in the Senate is so important because, you know, there's only 100 senators. So you have more power, you have more influence. And so just to add like one more leftist senator to that mix would possibly transform the country, not to sound hyperbolic. But I mean, we can't just have there be like a couple of senators beyond board for Medicare for all like we really need a bigger and broader coalition. And it's really nice to see you step up like this. And it's so exciting to see like you put everything that you're running on front and center. So like one of the first things that I do when I learn about a candidate is I go to their health care page and I check, do they support Medicare for all? That's like the most basic litmus test that I have. Do you support Medicare for all? Then okay, that's good, we'll talk. But I mean, you're really leading with this, right? You're not burying the lead. And I think that's especially important now. Like back in 2019, I maybe could have given people a pass for not being on board with Medicare for all. But during a pandemic, I just I can't give them a pass anymore. It seems like it's not just inhumane. It's it's unreasonable and irrational to be against Medicare for all. So can you talk through that need during a pandemic, especially, especially with regard to, you know, Delawareans and how it impacts them? Yeah, I mean, I think everyone who is continuing to oppose Medicare for all should be called on the carpet for that every single day and forced to explain their reasoning for that. Because it's the nonsensical position at this point. And Medicare for all is actually the responsible pragmatic policy. We know it saves us money. We know it saves us lives. And in the middle of a pandemic, when you have millions of people losing their employer based insurance, how can you continue to say this is the right system? How can you say that the answer for them is the affordable Care Act marketplace where the lowest cost plans in the state of Delaware. So first of all, this is why it's relevant state of Delaware. We have one insurer in our marketplace. One, there's no competition there. They can set the prices however they want. And what has had to happen is that the federal government and the state government have actually had to step in and create a reinsurance program to take the most expensive people and cover their costs. Because this for profit insurance company does not want to cover people. So we already have our federal and state government putting money into this insurance insurance system. And the plans that you get there, the most affordable plan was $300 a month with an $8000 deductible. So if you just lost your job and you can't afford your Cobra payments, which I've had to be on Cobra, my payments were upwards of $700 a month, which is not sustainable when you don't have income. And your option is the ACA. You can't afford that either. So we are creating a situation where people who were probably already underinsured are now going to be uninsured in the middle of a public health crisis. And I don't know how that is not a moment of radicalization for you. We have seen that it is for voters. People who were not on board with Medicare for All are open to that conversation now. And it's relevant for Delawareans. We have approximately 30% of people in our state who are struggling with medical debt. And that is debt that is completely unnecessary. And it impairs their ability to keep their housing. It impairs their ability to put food on the table to keep a car, all of the things they need to otherwise survive. So this is a problem we can absolutely alleviate and remove. And I really think that we are beyond the point of people who support Medicare for All needing to explain that position. It has turned a corner and people who don't support, they need to be the people that we are calling out and saying, how could you possibly not support this? I totally agree with that. I mean, we've won this debate. Proponents of Medicare for All, we've won. Everything that we said has been proven right, especially now during a pandemic. Unfortunately, like, we didn't want it to, you know, be this way where we're proven right because of a pandemic. But I mean, it's common sense. And you know, the thing that's striking to me is that out of all the issues that Democrats could get on board with like I get, you know, the stranglehold that big pharma and the health insurance industry has on the party, you know, as a whole. But I mean, this is one of the issues where you can't really lie to voters and gaslight voters. We all see firsthand how this impacts all of us. I mean, I was just talking to my niece this morning about how she needs to get her tonsils removed and she has insurance, but she has to fight them to try and get them to cover that. It's like, even if you have insurance, you can't tell us that we love it. We hate these insurance companies. So I love that I see people like you running really just leading with Medicare for all because it's so important. And I think that if if Democrats really embrace Medicare for all, they would be unstoppable. So it's frustrating to see not just the reluctance, but just the almost harsh tone that they have. Like as you stated, Chris Coons uses Republican talking points, these manifest from within the industry. These aren't things that he's coming up with because he just has some, you know, some agreements, disagreements with you on, you know, some of the specifics. No, these are lies that the industry spreads because they want to protect themselves because they know that Medicare for all poses an existential threat to them. So I want you to talk through Chris Coons because he hasn't been in the Senate for like that long, right? I mean, almost a decade. There's certainly people who've been there longer, but it's more than just Medicare for all with Chris Coons. He's not adequately representing the people of Delaware. Can you talk through some of what you think are his biggest failings? Yeah. The one that I always start with is siding with corporate interests over the needs of Delawareans. And we can see this over and over. He we just you just talked about the influence of insurance and pharmaceutical companies. He takes the second most amount of money from pharmaceutical companies second only to Mitch McConnell and you see it in the policy that he pushes forward. He opposes things like Medicare for all. He opposed the Klobuchar Sanders bill to import drugs to lower drug prices. He has championed bills that would actually allow pharmaceutical companies to strengthen and protect weak patents so that they could keep generics off the market and protect their profits. So he is working in favor of these corporate interests. Another one that is incredibly kind of local to Delaware, but important here is the work that he's done to help the chicken farmers that are in our state. So that is something about Delaware. There's like more chickens than people and there's chicken processing plants in our state. And they are the heads of those companies are very large donors to the National Chicken Council. The National Chicken Council is a very large donor to Chris Coons. And he has voted to allow those chicken processing plants to not report their air emissions. These are plants that were actively poisoning the water of the residents who live around the plants. There are now hundreds of residents who can't use their wells because they have been poisoned by this corporation. And yet our senator is not standing with those people. He's standing with the corporation and allowing them to continue that poisoning behavior and fighting back against the fact that they are also working to desertify a union right now. And he hasn't returned the money that he's given them. He hasn't stood up and said, you need to stop this poisoning of our environment. He did show up at a union rally, but you can't play both sides here. Because whenever these corporate Democrats have historically played both sides, it always ends up being working people who end up losing out. So the votes are one big problem. The legislation that he puts forward is one big problem. Another is the way that he has helped Trump enact his agenda. And this one is mystifying because he will go on MSNBC and Fox News and all of these TV stations. And he'll talk about how concerning and dangerous Donald Trump is, but he will vote for over 120 of the judges that Trump has worked to put on our judiciary. These are extreme judges who are uniquely young, uniquely partisan, federalist society judges who will be on the court for the rest of my life. They are outwardly anti-choice. They are outwardly anti-civil rights. They were outwardly anti the ACA, which the senator purports to support. So how are you making those votes? How are you voting to confirm Alex Azar, a drug company executive to lead health and human services, who right now you'll notice is failing in our public health response to a pandemic, and you championed him? He went and, like, he drummed up votes for Alex Azar. And why is that? Because he was the executive at Eli Lilly, who is a massive donor to Chris Coons. So I see someone who is failing to represent Delaware and work in their best interest, and it's time that we need to get someone in there who is centering the needs of people in our state. Yeah, I'm so glad you said all of that just beautifully. I mean, the representation that we're getting from a lot of corporate Democrats, it's just, it's hollow. I mean, you get the rhetoric. Sometimes they'll say the right thing, but their actions, they don't line up with the rhetoric, and now it's not necessarily just about rhetoric. They'll say things like, oh, well, health care is a right, but then they say that's why... I was just gonna say that. Absolutely. That drives me nuts. I will tell you, that gets under my skin unlike anything else, because that's like me saying that, you know, I think that... I don't think there's even an equivalent, so bringing up an analogy isn't gonna work as all butchered, but I mean, it's absurd to me. Like, if you say health care is a right, then that's guaranteed. You know, it's just, it's bizarre. So I wanted to ask you about, because for me, like just thinking from an individual standpoint, you're only one person, but you still would be in a position of power if you won this primary and got elected to the Senate. Where do you begin? I mean, I think through everything that needs to be done, and the amount of time that it would take to save our country and from the numerous crises that we face, I have no idea where to begin. I mean, if you were elected, your work would be cut out for you. So my question to you is, and this is huge, where do you begin? What do you do? What do you prioritize if you're elected? Yeah, and it is a daunting question, and it's hard to answer, right? Because so many of the things we are facing are interconnected issues. Yeah. You know, our health is influenced by the environment. Our housing is influenced by the economy and wages and jobs. And all of these things really do need to move together. But what I have been more focused on is really driven by what I hear from voters. And that number one thing is healthcare. It comes up on virtually every single call in some way, shape, or form. It's either I'm insured, but to your point earlier, when I have to use my insurance, it's terrible. I'm uninsured, so I don't go to the doctor. I'm underinsured, or my drugs are incredibly expensive. So that is the number one thing I hear from people. I think we absolutely need to and can champion universal healthcare. Very close behind that, though, we need to be looking at climate legislation that takes seriously the scale of the issue that we're facing. And that is another place where we see a lot of these corporate Democrats kind of co-opting the language of the left and saying climate change is an existential crisis of the global scale. And yet they propose legislation that doesn't nearly match the scale of that issue and doesn't even come close to getting us where we need to be. So I really see that as integral to saving not just our country, but our planet. And again, it's interconnected with healthcare. You know, we are in Delaware right now. We've been experiencing terrible extreme heat. It's been 95 degrees, humidity, hard to breathe, but it's not just uncomfortable. There are health effects that come from that. And Delaware is on track to have more than two months of extreme heat days every year. And that impairs physical and cognitive performance. It makes it harder for people to breathe. And it's actually the extreme weather event that kills the most people every single year, more than hurricanes, flooding, tornadoes, all of that combined. So we're already experiencing these things and we're on track for them to get worse. So I really see climate change as imperative for a state like Delaware that is the lowest lying in the country and already seeing the effects of it. And the other piece is, again, that kind of interlocking place of economic justice and guaranteed housing. Too many people in this country are struggling. I mean, we are the wealthiest country in the world. We should be absolutely ashamed of how we force people to live. I spoke to a woman yesterday who's on a fixed income, gets $700 a month. And the only place that she can live is in a motel where she's able, the only thing she's able to do is basically take that money and hand it over to the motel every single month and has virtually nothing left over. And she is just clinging, trying to hold on to survive. It's completely inexcusable. We need to raise wages. We need to expand social security. We need to institute a federal jobs guarantee. We need to actually legislate in favor of the people of our country and take back the power from the corporate influence that has really taken over, particularly in the last 40 to 50 years. And I'm really confident in you because you don't just have a plethora of good policies that you're introducing. You always speak to the real root causes, right? Because it's not just like, well, this is a problem, let's fix it. You try to look for the causal mechanisms. And I think that that's really what's lacking because with a lot of these incrementalist approaches that we see from corporate Democrats, like what we see moving towards progress, it's not enough. And it never addresses the underlying root cause. And so the problem persists, you know, these crises worsen. And that's why I think that people like you who are really aware of these things are so crucial because it's just not, it's not being addressed by our current party. I want to ask you about the Democratic Party itself because as a whole, you've been critical of them. You know, corporate Democrats, I think that even though we're starting to see a shift a little bit, they're still, they make up the majority of the party. So how do you, how do you get them to change? Is it a matter of like playing hardball with them? Or do we just have to one by one vote out the ones who aren't taking people, you know, and their issues serious? Like this is something that I've kind of struggled with that I've kind of gravitated towards. We need an all of the above approach. But, you know, practically speaking, like as a United States Senator, like what will you do to get someone on board, you know, to support Medicare for all? How do you think you'd be able to influence people? And does grassroots activism kind of play a role into that? Like we saw Bernie Sanders talk about, you know, I'd be the organizer in chief. So do you think that if you were able to cultivate like a real grassroots presence in DC, for example, that would move them or they're immovable? And we just got to kick them out like what's your take on this? Because this is something that I think is genuinely difficult for us to kind of process. Like I don't know what is going to be the main thing that gets us success, gets us to where we want to be. Yeah, and I don't think it's one thing. I think we really have to attack this from all fronts. I mean, we have to say, yes, let's use our influence inside the government to champion good policy. And let's do a much better job of actually communicating that policy to people. This has been such a gap for me because it is not enough to go to Washington and make the quote unquote right vote if you don't also bring the people along with you. Because that is actually where change comes from. That is where all of these policy ideas have come from. The people who are actually facing the problem are the best at solving it. So how do you ensure that you are always reaching back and pulling the activists who are doing the work at home? Up with you and boosting their work. And I think that is how I look at the power of a Senate seat a little differently. I mean, when you're a senator, you're basically like what most powerful hundred fifty people or so in the country. Like that is important and it can be used in such a better way than I think a lot of people have. Because you can do a better job of explaining what is this policy? What is this bill? Why do I want to vote in the way that I want to vote? And how do I get people to aim their energy at the people who might not be voting in the right direction? So we need to make sure that we actually think like an activist, think like an organizer. And yes, use the power of the people to direct change. But there are always going to be people who are just not going to be responsive to that. We can build as much political will as we want. We can show that three quarters or more of the country believes in this policy. There are people who are going to be unmoved by that. And I think we cannot be afraid of challenging them. And I will not step back from saying this person needs to be replaced if there are people who just will be completely unresponsive to the needs and the wants of the American people. I wanted to also ask you about executive authority. I mean, you're not running for president. You're running to be a check on the president theoretically speaking. But I mean, we've kind of seen this really troubling trend that started really substantially with the Bush administration where executive authority has been expanded. And then that trend didn't stop with Obama. He also increased the power of the executive. Trump is now taking that to what seems to be a really dangerous conclusion. And when you go so far in terms of increasing power, we start to see more dictatorial methods. And we see basically an occupying force in Portland currently against the consent of the governor and the mayor of Portland, Ted Wheeler. And this is my city and it feels really weird to feel like we have this invading force that's not foreign. It's the federal government. So I mean, this is a state's rights issue and I don't hear conservatives saying the state's rights conservatives speaking out. So I'm curious, what could you do in this instance? Because let's assume that Joe Biden actually does beat Donald Trump and the polls hold. I mean, I would suspect that he'd expand his federal power as well. And now that we've seen this precedent with Donald Trump, I wouldn't be surprised if, let's say, hypothetically speaking, this is all speculative, Donald Trump refused to concede and riots broke out in a state like Alabama in support of Donald Trump. Then Joe Biden can do what Trump did and send in the Fed. So we're going to see this trend continue on. And I don't think it's going to end with, you know, Donald Trump's tenure in the White House. So is there anything that you can do as a senator or would try to push for to reign in the power of the executive? I mean, we saw that attempted with the power to wage war. You know, Bernie Sanders and Mike Lee, they actually got that bill passed. You know, this was influenced in the House by Ro Khanna and Trump vetoed it. So what other steps could you take to reign in the power of the executive? Because this is something that does actually worry me increasingly, especially considering, you know, the trajectory that we're on. Right. Yeah. No, I share that concern because we have given up so much of that check and so much of the privacy that, you know, Americans had in the name of security in a lot of ways. And I think that it's important in moments of crisis when people are looking for safety to really think about what they might be giving up because I think that's how we got here in a lot of ways. You know, after particularly September 11th and the feeling that everyone had of just wanting to be safe and protected has really put us on this trajectory. So I think it's a lot of it can come from rhetoric in some ways. Like so much of what has been the message that we get from anyone in government has been a lot of fear has been about, you know, terrorists has been about Donald Trump running on undocumented immigrants being the problem. And that's why so many people were calling for the abolishment of ICE, because this is what ICE has been doing to undocumented immigrants for years. And now we're seeing it extended beyond that one group. And I'm glad that people's eyes are being open to that, but they need to recognize that this has been going on. And this is this is authority that we gave up out of fear. So I think it's really important to talk more about like to run on hope and the the concept of actually building something better, not run on fear. Because I think when you put people in that place of fear and crisis, they're more willing to kind of go along with giving up of these rights. So there's that element. The other thing is that we need to be obstructionists if we need to be obstructionists. Like, when you vote to increase the military budget and create a space force and extend FISA and all of these things, you are going along with it. So then to turn around and say, oh, we didn't really want Trump to do this. Well, what have you done to set to raise the alarm before that? And that's I think something that needs to be done more publicly as well is to talk about like, what are you actually opposing when you oppose something and for what reason? And I think in this moment, we have to really think about you make the point of, you know, conservatives don't seem to be saying that this is a states rights issue and they're oddly quiet on it. In fact, I've kind of called this out and some of the responses I got was, well, then they shouldn't be defacing property or rioting. And it's like, OK, well, they're using the federal, these federal agents to take away First Amendment rights. What if it's now Second Amendment rights? How are you going to feel about that? And they'll say, you know, they'll come out with their guns and they'll defend themselves. But the federal government has drones. The federal government has a much more intense arsenal. And I think that we really have to make sure that we are appealing to people like from the direction that it's going to make sense for them. Because, yes, maybe people oppose the protesters that are going on. But I think you can expose to them the the slippery slope that this might be and really talk through how like, we have to demand that these powers get real, real back in. And I think we have to use the the power of the ability to not approve budgets to enact some of the change that we need to see. To basically restrict the funds, restrict the way they can be used and protect people that way. Yeah. And I'm so glad that you said that. This is why I think that your election is so crucial. Because we don't have really that many voices that are like yours in the Senate. I mean, people are either unprincipled or complicit. I mean, in the sense of being unprincipled, Republicans are silent. They're OK with it because someone on their team is the one who's doing this. And when it comes to Democrats, as you alluded to, I mean, Chris Coons is largely complicit. I mean, how many times have Democrats voted to expand Donald Trump's military budgets and, you know, the power of the federal government to spy on Americans illegally? Which is obviously unconstitutional. So I mean, even just like I think the step of not being complicit in and of itself would be huge, which is why we have to elect people like you. Because the current status quo like the corporate Democrats in office, they are enabling Donald Trump. I mean, they can use the rhetoric that they want. They can say, I don't like it when he does this. But at the end of the day, you are the one who are giving him this authority to do that. If you continuously vote on bills that give him the power that approve his federal judges that basically take what he does that's unconstitutional and legitimize them. Right. And say, you know, I approve of this. So it's troubling, which is why I mean, this election is so, so important. And even if people may be disappointed with the results of the presidential primary. I mean, there are so many great candidates, including yourself, to where this is still so, so crucial, you know, that we change the makeup of Congress. So I know that anyone who's watching this, they're going to love you. You know, you are you check all the boxes. I feel like in terms of like what we want in a candidate. So, you know, yeah, you're great. So what can we do to make your victory a reality? Yeah. So volunteers are incredibly crucial. I'm I talked in the beginning about the size of Delaware. If we put 20 to 30 people on our dialer every day, we could call every Democratic voter in the state every week. That's the size that we're talking about. And so just getting another 510 people on every single day makes a difference in this race. And your hours are incredibly valuable because the scale is smaller. And that's why your dollars go further. You know, like I said before, the 2018 Senate primary had about 84,000 votes. So that's not a ton. We can win those votes. We are working to win them right now and earn them right now. We still have about two months until our election. It's on September 15th. So now is the time to actually join us because there have been too many near misses this summer, like where momentum was building and the Calvary just got there a little too late, right? Like a week more and we'd have Charles Booker. And we don't want that to be the case in our race. This is like the last stand for a leftist policy in the country. This is the last primary in the country. And we have a real opportunity to win. So volunteering is crucial. And you could sign up to do that at justfordellaware.com slash volunteer. And of course, you know, this is the grassroots funded campaign. We don't take any corporate PAC money. So donations are always welcome. And you could do that at justfordellaware.com slash donate. Yeah. And I will say this that I think that your victory is guaranteed so long as everyone knows about you. Like I think that a lot of these races ultimately comes down to name recognition because people are sick and tired of Congress. They want new representatives, fresh faces, but oftentimes they don't necessarily know about the alternative and maybe they don't have the time to look up whoever the primary opponent is and they don't want to necessarily take a gamble and get someone who's worse. So it's just a matter of like if more people knew about the options that they had and all these great leftist candidates, I think that, you know, there would be more victories. And we're kind of seeing, you know, a lot more victories just in this cycle in comparison with 2018. So that's really encouraging. And if this trend continues, like we're looking really good as a movement. So, you know, I just I'm so thankful that people like you are stepping up and running. And I really hope that people at home do their part, do what they can, chip in a buck or two if you have it and really dedicate time because this is, you know, even if you take time out of your day and it's not successful, like a lot of people who I know who phone banked for Bernie Sanders or even went down to Iowa, for example, to Canvas for him, they kind of feel like, man, that was all a waste of time. It's not actually a waste of time. This is really like you are changing hearts and minds in the process. So it's so crucial. So if we get Jess into the US Senate, I mean, imagine the difference that would make and imagine how freaked out the establishment would be. That'd be great. Exactly. Exactly. You nailed it. So Jessica, thank you so much for coming on the program. Thank you, Mike, for having me.