 Okay, so just so by the way, so Taneel is the Chicago land, Chicago land mom's block founder. So she's she's our group founder. We're a group of 13 over 13,000 women from the Chicago area. Mothers, I should say mothers auntie from us from the Chicago area. Dr. Femi is our resident principal and parenting expert. And, and then my name is Tony. So I'm the one that's been corresponding with you. I hope it's not offensive. Oh no. Black men expect black men of that caliber expect black women to be women. Femininity. A lot of y'all. A lot of y'all men. Oh no 100%. But that's because it's not enough masculine energy around. How can we be feminine? We can't make that excuse. What excuse? See we didn't talk about y'all. We're not talking about the one person. You said we're masculine because there's not enough masculine energy around. What if men started saying we're feminine because there's not enough feminine energy around? Because I mean that's that's but we can't say that is my point. I guess it's because when when when women are raised we're raised to be strong. We're not necessarily we don't necessarily know what even masculine really means. You feel me to even say like oh you masculine because if I'm raised without my father and all I know is my mom so you're telling me really my mom is masculine. You feel me? So I really don't have a broad like a real sense of oh that's a nigga. You act like a nigga. But you proved my point. You said because before you said that there are not enough men to go around and then you said men need to do this this this this and this. And now you're saying that I don't know what masculine is. No no no for a woman. Yeah. For a man. Yeah. But it's the same energy. Is it? A man being masculine, a woman being masculine, masculine is masculine. That's so much. Now it doesn't look well it doesn't look right when a woman does it but it's still masculine. Because what is masculine energy? It's for on a woman. What do you think it is? It's hard to for me to know. I mean for me to say because I've had men say that I do have like masculine energy. I'll explain it in one word. Agreeableness. Agreeableness. So because men have been socialized to be competitive. And what that means is I can't just take what the world gives me. I have to chart my own course the whole night. So if I'm presented with information I have to first be critical of that information. I'm saying hmm right. This is the math method. Women on the other hand. But we're raised that way. I understand that. Women on the other hand. If you are going to be a queen right. Okay. You have to submit under the authority of a king. 100%. So when the king says something it's you got it bad. That's agreeableness. 100%. Now the problem is a lot of women think they're kings. Yes you. About to get into a commercial there. So that is enough. Let me put. Oh I closed it. But I'm going to post that. So if people want to watch the whole conversation is very very interesting. And something I just I have never thought about. Have you guys ever thought about masculinity in women? Yeah. All the time. Femi and I are leaders. Femi how many times a week do you get that? Oh. You know. We actually we need three segments off the bat. Three segments. Minimal. We got a lot to say. But yes. I don't know. I I guess I've never thought about equating leadership to masculine energy. You know. But you know what Tony? I think that sometimes like some of that is also because I think that you have the kind humbleness of a southern woman. And I mean that in the most you know humble way like I think it's no to me you act like you from Chicago. But no Tony you just kind of have that humbleness so I can see that. Okay. Okay. And maybe I mean and maybe that's something to something to think about. Talk about. I don't know. Either way I think what we're going to be talking about today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation because I am in love with this YouTube channel that I've come across. We need to talk thanks to the YouTube algorithm. Because it popped up and you should watch this. I was like what is this? I'm in love with the black the white background the black t-shirts and that brown tan tan chair just like it's it just works for me. But I think the really the reason I really like it is just it's a very civil but needed conversation. Like we can have these conversations. They don't have to be like and they don't have to be antagonistic. You know. I think we can have these conversations about what's going on with our relationships in our community. They don't have to be antagonistic. So that's what we're going to talk about today as people. So as people start to filter in welcome moms we're going to get started with Tuneo. You want to start us off? Yeah. I'm ready. First of all I hope everybody had a fabulous Mother's Day. I had a fabulous Mother's Day as you all could tell. I went to Atlanta. The Rose Festival is coming to Chicago at the end of June. Went to check it out in Atlanta first. I taste tested all the drinks for everybody. We're good. We're good. We're good. But welcome. I needed that break last week too. I was able to get in the yard last Monday. So I'm excited about that. But welcome to Monday Night Mom Chat. I am Tuneo Jackson. I never say my name. And I'm a daughter of one 13 year old and we've been 13 eight. So that's been very interesting. But I'm excited about tonight. And I think Tony I know you'll say this but this show has been planned for weeks. So even with Kevin Samuel's untimely death and all that stuff. And I know our guests will explain everything. This show has been planned. So I don't want this people to think this is a play on. But I think it's going to be a timely conversation. So I'm excited. And Femi's back. Hello Femi. Tuneo. You know what? I never the jealousy that's exuding. I took one week off and I just happened to also be booked on another show. And Tuneo has not let me live that down. Listen. I am your resident principal Dr. Femi Skane. I'm really excited to talk about our relationships because I have quite a bit to say. Happy Mother's Day to all of our moms, to all of our mom figures. You know, I think that this Mother's Day has been interesting. And I've really my heart has really been feeling quite heavy. You know, a lot of times we think about those of us who are without our minds. But this year my heart was really bleeding from moms who had their first or another Mother's Day without their children. I just can't even imagine the grief that goes along with this. So just for any of our moms that might be in that category know that there are those of us who are still thinking about you and praying for you and that we love you. Amen. Well said. Yes. Very well said. We want to turn it up to everyone. Yeah. Hello everybody. My name is Alan Obi. I'm the voice behind Winnie the Talk. By day I am a dad and a user experience researcher. By night and weekend I make documentaries. So I'm really happy to be here. I'm excited for the conversation and thank you guys. Well, thanks for joining us. And my name is Toni Husmans. I am a mom of two and a 10 year old and one who just finished his first feature film this week. So we got a movie coming out. That would be exciting. A whole, what do you call it? The screening, the screening, premiere or whatever coming up in our memory and everything. So that was exciting. A lot of work but I am glad to be home. Let's see. I am also the co-founder of Dept Free Divas and a long term member of the Chicagoland mom squad. So yes, we are going to talk about these relationships folks. Way to kick us out. Way to segue into this. So I ran across, we need to talk and just was immediately, like I said, immediately kind of pulled into the conversation. We're going to pop that link in the comments so that after this conversation you all can head over there and check out Alan's content, his interviews. He even has an interview himself which was actually pretty interesting. And I want to know, just to kind of start us off, Alan, is why did you start this channel? Like what was your goal behind it? Like what are you hoping to accomplish? Yeah, so what you guys see is actually the rebirth of an organization I started in college by the same name. So in college I was NAACP president and we started, we need to talk as like a conversation series to help kind of bridge the divide between black students and white students. And naturally, white students didn't show up. So we ended up talking amongst ourselves and the conversation that will come up is men and women and why we can't get along. So at our peak we were at seven different universities. But once I graduated and I was trying to get my life together, I couldn't really focus on it. And the style of conversation we did was really unique. So I didn't have time to really cultivate other people to pick up the mantle. So it died for a minute and then quarantine hit. So it died for a minute. So YouTube is kind of a resurgence of that conversation and I try to make it more intimate and make it as simple as possible. And that's what you guys see today. I love it. So I'm turning 29 tomorrow. I get it a lot. I get it a lot. Did you restart it? I see everything says Kevin Samuel started this conversation. Did you rebirth it around the Kevin Samuel stuff or? So initially, the Kevin Samuel's being in the title, what is that? The Kevin Samuels being in the title was a SEO decision. It was a strategic decision because I had done a video called Is Kevin Samuel's a Necessary Evil? And when I was looking at the analytics Kevin Samuels kept popping up. So I was okay. How can I create a conversation around the conversations Kevin Samuels is having but take that tone that everybody criticizes him for not having. So that's kind of where we are now. It works for you. Thank you. Is he a Necessary Evil? What did you conclude? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, why do you think that is it just the tone that is so challenging for people to accept? And I guess it's not challenging for everybody because he had quite a few followers and a lot of women would call into his show. I've just learned about him within the last month or so. And I just learned about him only because he went to the same undergrad. And some people in a different group I met in a OU group were kind of like who is this person? And they were just kind of like the women anywhere. And so I'm like who is this guy? And then of course with some first clips I was like why is he so mean? What does somebody do to him? That was kind of my initial reaction. But as I got to watching more and actually like making myself kind of sit through some of the nearness, there is actually a there's a useful nugget in there. A useful nugget of information in there. And that's why I like what you're doing because we're taking out the antagonism and let's let's deal with the meat of the conversation because it is. No, it is. So do you think that that and maybe it's like one of those things what bleeds leads basically? No, it's like the controversy cells. Do you find like your style is is is effective in reaching enough people or being you know, being an alternative to that? I think you know, because he's he's spoken about why he took that approach, right? Because initially when he was on YouTube, he was talking to men. And you know, as an image consultant, he took a more Simon Cowell Gordon Ramsey approach where he's like the anti hero, right? And unfortunately, I think a bit of if it bleeds, it leads as a part of his success, you know, because, you know, World Star and Shade Room and different, you know, outlets like that pick it up if it's provocative. Right. But you know, for me, ironically, you might not believe it, but I used to have that approach in my personal life. I used to when I would engage in conversation, I would try to dunk on people. That's how I put it. I would try to cross you over break your ankles and dunk on you. But then I realized it wasn't effective. I realized that you know, if this person saw me as an other, if this person saw me as a threat, they wouldn't engage with me with honesty, it would just be defensiveness and vice versa. Like at that point, I'm not listening. I'm just trying to, you know, dunk on you and vice versa. So, you know, for me in my personal life, you know, having conversations with girlfriends or my mother or my sisters, I'm like, okay, let me let me be more strategic. Let me take the calmer approach. And I have to say it's been working out. So what what I'm actually trying to do with this channel is model that for other men so they can have more effective conversations. I love it. Yeah. So you know, I wanted to jump in and I think really conversations, conversations are the name of the game. So early on the comment was really about men and women not being able to get along with each other. I'm not going to agree that men and women can't get along with each other. My perspective is that men and women sometimes struggle with how to communicate with one another. And so because we struggle with how to communicate with one another, I think that that makes it seem like we just don't get along, but know you're going to argue if you don't know how to communicate. In today's society, for so many different reasons, you know, I just feel like right now everybody is in this defensive battle, where I don't want to be I don't want to be seen as submissive or inferior to anybody so it has everybody's guards up at all times. And so now what is happening is that if you start to talk about gender roles in any kind of way, then people are automatically defensive. Like I'm not about to lay down, but you know, I say this all the time and I'm like, you know, as we all know, I don't really care what people have to say, but I don't struggle with gender roles in my marriage, you know, like my husband is the man, I'm the woman and we compliment each other because guess what? At the end of the day, I don't have to know how to change a flat tire. And some people are like, you got to be able to take care of yourself. I can't take care of myself. I can take care of many things, but my husband literally would not allow me to change a flat tire because he feels his job is to take care of me. I mean, and he's like really adamant about that. So I just wonder if we could let our defenses down and say like having gender roles doesn't necessarily mean like that doesn't mean I have to wash these clothes by hand. Like that's not what that means. So I think that's one of the struggles. I wonder how does that translate into what we're teaching our kids? Because that's where that's kind of the topic tonight is like how we are raising the next generation of spouses, right? And unfortunately, the relationship numbers in the black community aren't looking so hot in terms of, you know, the numbers of divorces. I think we're the black community is higher than any other ethnic group in the country. The numbers of people getting married, period. I think one, I think one out of four black women can expect to marry in their lifetime, which is the lowest among all the groups of different ethnic groups. We're more likely to get divorced, you know, and then those those second marriages are more are like 80% likely to not to not flat. So there's a lot of struggle in terms of the terms of the stuff. It can be kind of depressing, but the the eternal optimism, I'm like, okay, so what do we need to do to like turn this around? You know, and I'm not saying that we're going to have all the answers. I don't even expect you, Alan, I almost called you obi. Everybody calls me obi, it's fine. To have all the answers either, but what but looking at like those gender roles, looking at communication styles, because women and men communicate differently. You know, one of the things I'm learning, even after being married for 20 years, even watching you guys as like content, it's just like thinking about the fact that, yeah, I'm a chatterbox. And my husband and that's all, you know, like I'm not that I have known that, but it's okay. Like we have different styles of communication. Like how do we like bridge those so that we can both, you know, we can meet in the middle somewhere in terms of like not having those not being disagreeable and not having those conflicts that just stem from not being being able to communicate well. And then how do we teach our kids, you know, to be able to relate to the opposite gender in a healthy so that they can develop healthy relationships? Like what are we doing? You have older teens and I was just gonna say that I will say I am so thankful for my daughter's her first boyfriend. I'm so thankful for his mom, actually his mom and dad, right? But I will say so he lived with his dad, but his mom will come in on the weekends and she and I just ended up having a really good relationship. And if we didn't do anything where we complimented each other with teaching them how to date in a healthy way. And so like she would take them places, I would take them places, we let them date each other, right? All of these people are like they don't need a boy, you know, it's developmentally appropriate to like each other because those hormones are coming, whether you try to suppress them or not. And what was his boyfriend for me? So at 16. Okay. And they, well, they broke up senior year and their breakup was like it was devastating. It was devastating for me for her, but like he was at home crying. My daughter was at home crying. It was really hard. But I will and she and I are still like good Facebook friends or whatever. But I think that she and I did a really good job of like teaching them how to date. When he was wrong, she would tell him when my daughter was wrong, I would tell her like, you know, I would say it like, Hey, I'm telling you, if you talk to a boy like that, that's emasculating him. Let me tell you what, what results you're going to get. Okay. He did a couple of things that his mom was like, no, like that's not cool. So I said all of that to say instead of doing this thing where we push, like, no, we're not doing all of that. Like I wouldn't try to arrange her marriage. We were just really trying to say we wanted our kids to date in a very healthy way. And so I think that that's key. But for me, one of the things that I think is key is that kids need to see parents and healthy relationships. My husband and I don't really, we try not to argue too much in front of the kid. Oh, we have our fair share, right? And it's been a couple of times when he had to tell me like, don't talk to me like that in front of the kids. Because it's like the dynamics of what happens. But we also are very loving in front of each other. I mean, you know, in front of our kids. So I think it's the intentionality around dating and not making sex like taboo. I've said to my kids, like, sex feels good. You know, we do this thing like, you don't want to have sex. Well, if we want to have sex, then why are we having it right? Like stop saying that to kids because it only makes them want to know. But but it feels good until you itching and scratching. It feels good until so then you have to like have honest conversations. So I said all of that to say, I think that honesty and intentionality are the key when raising kids to engage in healthy relationships. Ready just said it ready. That's a good put ready said, bring back children being invited to wedding. Yes. And then to Mika said it's hard and then to Mika said it's harder being single because everyone can't be involved or hands on with our kids because we're dating. And I think she said something also earlier just basically about, you know, and I and I'm happy about this conversation. But it is that challenge of being single where you do want to, you know, you want to demonstrate to your child something, right? But not at any cost. Even if that looks like for me, it's just looking for it. Our co-parenting relationship is good, right? Even though things didn't work out. Man, your dad is great, you know, Ray is bomb blah, blah, blah, so that she at least understands from a nurturing standpoint. But my dates and stuff, no. But you know what, but why can't she see you date sometimes, right? You know that date. And without putting all my business on the internet, because you guys know I've been divorced for eight years. So at one point, if I'm in a long term relationship, I don't hide that, you know, hey, mommy's going out, she sees me getting dressed, all that other stuff. But the way I'm dating, she can't see everybody. I'm curious, you mentioned, we're talking about the single moms, you mentioned that, correct me if I got this wrong, because I didn't write it down, but it was something about like a single mom can't raise a boy or something like that. So please correct me what I mean. Here it comes. No, say your statement and then kind of, can you kind of explain, can you expand on that a little bit about your perspective about that statement? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, whenever I have conversations about relationships, particularly, you know, black relationships, I come at it from a like a historical perspective, and also a psychological perspective. I'm somewhat of a psychology nerd because I work in research. And masculinity for millennia has always had some rights of passage. You had to go live in the forest for a week or something and fight bears and stuff. And there was an understanding between the man and the woman, whether it's the father and the mother, as to when that time was going to be for a boy and how to prepare him for that time. And for the mother, how to get out of the way as well, because as a mom, you want to nurture in the whole nine. I think one of the things that's happened to our community in particular, they strategically removed the men. And now you're having a lot of boys crossing that threshold into manhood without any rights of passage. Those boys tend to be pseudo masculine. They tend to be super emotional. They tend to be super aggressive. And they think that's what manhood looks like, because it's never been modeled for them. So unfortunately, I'm not saying that, you know, some mothers, some single mothers aren't doing an incredible job raising boys, but in mass on the macro, the numbers would say that no, women are not by themselves doing a good job raising boys, especially black boys. So, so if you so, okay, so I and I totally get the statistics about like all of the, again, I don't mean to depress us, but like all, you know, the, it's depressing. Yeah, it is depressing. Yeah. Single single homes are just really challenging in terms of like they're, you know, they're more likely to end up in jail, more likely to be a teen mom, more likely to not graduate from high school. Like it just, it's off the charts in terms of like the challenges that children from single, single parent households or, or I don't know if it's single parent or just single parent, because it is, I think it's different if there is a co parent, even if they're in a different household, I think it's just, if you have one, I'm gonna say like this one involved parent, one involved parent. It's the challenges that our kids are facing are really, are really challenging. And so if, but we're, but we're at this point where 70% of our kids are being raised in single parent households. So what do moms need to do if you're in that situation, but you want to kind of tip the balance back for your boy, especially for our boys, because we're struggling I mean, and we know this, living in Chicago, we are struggling with, with academic performance for our, for our young boys for the criminal, you know, boys involved in the criminal justice system in Chicago, just the violence is just so much. So what, you know, like how do we, we need to take this power back. So what are some suggestions that you have, because we're in the situation that we're in? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, Ellen, don't just get to slide in the whole, because my pushback in all of these conversations, because a lot of people have been having them, and I think we need to have them a lot, right? But I always like to challenge the men to redirect that energy towards the men. Where your brothers go? Why are we not holding them accountable? Why, when this groovy way thing came out on another show that I work on, I mean, the men just were like, women need to pick better. Do you think that we are purposely picking wrong? No, we were, we got dragged into some of this through a lot. We're not all just, this isn't life that we should, this isn't the life that we chose for us. And I'm a sitcom baby. So I grew up watching TV. So I wanted all of the Martin and Gina's and all of the stuff. It's somewhere in between where the men get, they get an out. And then once they get an out, now all of a sudden we're to blame, we're left with everything on our shoulders as if, and then if we speak up too much about it, now we be emasculine. And it's one of those things that's irritating because then we get into this Queen King culture, which is just irritating. Right? It's the level of respect, but be kingly. Be kingly. And so I always like to push back up, yes, what can women do? And how do we raise our children? But why do y'all just get it out? And y'all mean it? Yeah, no, I think that's a fantastic question. And that's, you know, a question that, you know, I talk about a lot. I think, first and foremost, I think a lot of us downplay the power of women and the power of femininity. And when I say that, I don't just mean like the human species, I mean every other species, because ultimately women are the gatekeepers of the next generation. So women literally decide who gets cloned and who doesn't. Right? So in the beginning of the something I tell women all the time or young girls, I'm like, yo, if you, if you're not willing to potentially risk your life, risk death to clone this man, why are you sleeping with him? That's something I tell girls. Good stuff. What? Sure, sure. No, we're going to cut this one in the boat. Because why are, why do we also give permission? Why don't we keep that same energy for men? Why don't they stop sleeping with women that they don't want to mother their children? I just, we just leave with, we're talking about kings, queens, women, let's leave with the kings, let's talk about them first. Okay, hold on, he said, let's let him, let's let him finish. So like I was saying, so that's first and foremost. So women get to decide who gets replicated and who doesn't. The second thing is, because my audience is mostly men, and a lot of their grievances stem from or surround this concept of, I quote unquote, did all the right things, especially as a black man, I did all I went to school, I got the job, I'm a good dude, but I wasn't picked. Right. So there's a lot of resentment coming from men saying that I actively watched women pick the wrong men and then expect me to take the blame for and the responsibility for the men that they picked. Because when they're having conversations with their circle of friends, these aren't the men that women tend to be complaining about. But unfortunately, I think what's popular in the media, what's popular on movies, what's popular in novels aren't healthy men. But unfortunately, because a lot of girls consume this content and they're also growing up in toxic situations, their ideas of what a man looks like tends to be an unhealthy man. And there's a disconnect between the healthy men who don't get chosen and the unhealthy men who do get chosen end up being who they were. And then this blame gets shifted to all men. And that's all men are saying. So when I when I talk to women who are already in that situation, number one, men are not that clever. I want to put that out there. Women say they were liars this this and that men are not that clever. I've been around older men my entire life. And this is what I mean by that. What I mean by that is, you know, I'll have conversations with even on my channel, like one girl, she was dating a rapper, right? And she said he was signed. And she said that he, you know, he he you remember the conversation. She said that he was going to be successful this this and that. And then I questioned her about it. I was like, you know, what was his worth work ethic like? She was like, you know, he would work on his music. I was like, how reliable was he as a person if he said he was going to do something that he actually do it? She's like, no, not really. But again, she fell in love with her idea of him, as opposed to who he actually was. And a lot of times even men do the same thing will fall in love with our idea of a woman, as opposed to who she wants to be. So she wants to be a strip of Magic City. We think she could be a housewife. And then there's going to be conflict, but people are not that good liars. That that's the thing. That's what they are. And that's that they actually are. I've been there done that. There are some people that this is what they do for a lifestyle. So I'm going to wholeheartedly disagree because I've seen it and I've experienced people change. There are some people who are narcissistic and manipulative. And when they're good at their craft, when they practice it, it doesn't mean that you're not paying attention. There are some people who are very adept at hiding that. And so here's where I think women end up getting defensive. I think for the most part, we can take critique because we live a life where black as black women, especially black women, we're constantly critiques. So, you know, a lot of times we have some tough skin because unfortunately, that's just what life has afforded us. It just becomes problematic to have men talking to us about what it's like to be a woman. I just want me to keep that same energy and stop talking to me and talk to your friends, your brother, your uncle, all of this. Like don't don't use that. Don't waste that energy on me. Right? Like I can probably we probably got it under control. It just it feels very condescending when men always want to tell a woman what they need to do. I'm saying like take the women out the conversation. If y'all got the answers, then work it out and come back and be kings. I guess I'm going to disagree a little bit with that thing because I do think that it is helpful. And again, a person who's been married for 20 years and is way out of the game. But it's for me, I'm looking at it from a perspective of this is information that is helpful to me to learn. Right? And so these conversations are going on and these guys are saying this is what I'm looking for in a woman. It is helpful to understand that. It is helpful to understand like this is what I'm looking for in a woman. Not in the delivery of what I need to do. If you're not talking to other men, don't talk to me about how to be a better woman. If you're not giving me a man to be a better woman too. That's why I'm looking at you right now. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Because we you know what? We hear it all the time where women are like we have to think. That's the thing. I don't know. I have at least, okay, let me speak for myself. I don't know that I've heard it in this way. And one of the things and it's not a lie. You know, it's very simple. There are, you know, the things that I'm getting over and over and over and on these things are somebody who is agreeable, somebody who is in good fitness, somebody who is not doesn't have a promiscuous past. Now that's something I have an issue with because I think that should be on both sides and I will get there. But I do. I have a serious challenge with the idea of I want somebody who was not promiscuous, which I understand that, but then I'm going to be promiscuous myself. You know, so I'm like, excuse me, because I'm like, when I was looking for somebody like to me, a hoe was a hoe, whether you were male or female. I didn't want to do it. That's what you did. You know, yes, judgment. You know, that's what you did. I didn't want to be involved in that. You know, I didn't want that whatever diseases and energy and you know, whatever that you had out there. So that kind of stuff again, but it's been interesting to me to listen to and I'm thinking about, I'm taking notes from a perspective of, okay, what am I going to share with my daughter? What am I going to share with my son in terms of qualities to look for in a suitable mate? You know, what are some of the things that we should be helping them identify? And it's not the flashy, suave talking person in the middle of the floor who all of the girls want. You know, that's the kind of stuff that I really think like the values. What values do we hold in high esteem? You know, and a lot of times we hold in high esteem the values that don't make good qualities in a long-term mate. We find out after we've invested a lot of time in these people and invested our bodies and invested our, you know, had baby, unfortunately, with these people. And that's the kind of thing I'm wondering like, what are the things that we should be talking to our kids in terms of being intentional? Because I want my children to have healthy, I want them to have healthy relationships when they grow up. I don't know what, you know, I don't agree with this polygamy thing that I do believe that me. I'm married to one. Men can be monogamous. I do agree. I do believe that. And so those are some of the things I think that it becomes when we listen. I don't have to agree with everything that they're saying. I don't have to agree with any of it. But when we listen, we can learn at least from their perspective, you know, like to take in the hand and you know, spit out sticks. And if I may like respond to Femi. Femi, I'm sorry. I apologize. No, Femi is actually a Nigerian name. Yeah, yeah. Femi is a Nigerian name. So like it spelled the same. So I was starting off. But yeah, so speaking about, you know, the whole narcissism thing, statistically narcissistic personality disorder is an anomaly. Most people are not, it's like 2% of the population like that's actually clinically diagnosed narcissist. What is true though? What is true? But what is true is that human nature actually wants to believe, like we want to believe people. We want to believe things. And you know, so you can say the vast majority of us are gullible, as opposed to the vast majority of people are good liars. But the other piece that I did want to say, I think for a lot of reasons, men are forced to understand women in a way that women are not forced to understand men. And what I mean by that is, as a man, literally everything you do from the time you hit puberty is to try to impress women. Like I've had people comment on my channel and they'll tell me that, yo, the reason I serve 20 years in prison is because I was trying to do this thug thing to get this woman's attention. And it didn't work. Or you have some men who like they're in jail for beating up their sister's abusive boyfriend and they're still in jail and she's back with the boyfriend. So like women are a huge part of men's motivation. Matter of fact, one of my guests, he said that, you know, a few years ago, women said that they liked men to be bearded. And now men from 14 all the way to 54 are growing struggle beers. They're not connecting or anything. So at the core, men are prime to listen to women. Unfortunately, I don't think that energy is reciprocated, particularly if you're an attractive woman, particularly if you are, you know, if you have a lot of sexual attention, you don't have to do anything to get a man, right? Whereas men, we have to make sure we've got the right clothes on the right shoes on the right job. Now it's whole six figure thing. Now you need to have a certain number of followers on Instagram or Facebook, whatever the case may be to have clout. So men have to listen to women and understand women, at least to be able to manipulate y'all to have sex or whatever we want to do. But women don't necessarily have to do that. So a lot of the pushback that happens sometimes is like, men have to have a working understanding. Women on the other hand, it's like, why do you think you know me? And I don't know you when it's like a lot of times a lot of our women, a lot of women in general, haven't had to know men and they don't care to, that's the other piece too. I don't think that we don't want to get to know men. I think then it just goes back down to interpersonal communication and guards up and all that other stuff. I don't, it's hard for me to believe, I completely agree with you in that one respect that you don't have to. And especially then if we were raised and we didn't, weren't in a two-parent house to understand the dynamics sometimes of men and women. I mean, fortunately I was raised in a two-parent house. So I get it and I understand men and dynamics and sometimes being quiet and all those things that naturally a person who did, you may want to pop off and you can't because he just needs some space or he just needs some time. So I agree with you with that for sure. But I think to Neal actually, I think one of the reasons that it may feel like that men have to understand women and women don't necessarily spend as much time understanding men. I'm not going to necessarily disagree to that point. I think that a lot of time, well if you think about from child development, girls are taught that it's okay to express emotions and boys are not. So boys don't necessarily get to have emotions. They're told stop crying, get yourself together. So then when you bring those two dynamics in a relationship, I don't think it's that women don't necessarily want to listen to a man. I think that number one we've been like taught to express how we feel and men have not. So when you bring that dynamic in, it's like you're not saying anything for me to listen. Of course it's not a hundred percent scenario, but men don't necessarily, it takes them a longer time to be transparent about their emotions. One of the things that I believe that is important in relationships and marriage, I think that sometimes people wait to go to counseling until they have a problem. But if people see counseling as an important maintenance part of their marriage, I think it'll be so much healthier because some of it is just learning how to communicate. I'm not by any means saying that my husband and I are perfect. We disagree on a lot of key points, but I will say, and you know, both of us have been married again and we, you know, don't each other, whatever, but we communicate well. I mean, we have really hard conversations about how we feel, about how the other one makes us feel, about how those actions make us feel, but again, it goes back to intentionality. And so, but here's the key thing, none of this is going to make a difference. Me and can't tell men, me and can't tell women, none of us can do any of this until you heal yourself, right? And that's, that's part of it. People don't spend enough time working on themselves. They want this other people, this other person to come in as a perfect package, heal what's going on with you. And then you can be better in a relationship. And I think you said a good word there, perfect package to me, because nobody is perfect. And I think that's another thing, is like we expect this person to, you know, check off all the boxes and be this perfect person. And, and we're not perfect. That's one, that's one thing that I learned in my, you know, I told you guys before that I had, you know, the struggle first year of marriage, and it came down to having these expectations for him, but not realizing that or not being really willing to acknowledge, you know, my, the part that I play in our, in our, in our conflict, you know, the imperfections in myself, you know what I mean? But let me tell you, one of the things talking about like femininity and being strong. So today was kind of laughing in the beginning, right? When you talk about being a leader and all of that, when I'm out in the world, I have to be, I have to be strong. And that's what my career demands of me. Like, there's no place in the world that I really get to be weak. And so my husband was accustomed to that. So it took him a long time to figure out to just hold me when I was crying, because he had to, he had to come to groups where who I am in the world is not who I am as his wife. So that, that weak part of me that he has to deal with, or he has to know how to nurture and comfort. He was like, girl, why are you crying? Like, you do this all day long. Like, what is wrong with you until I'm like, listen, that's me in the world. That's not me as your wife. And so just figuring out how to even deal with each other emotionally. And now when I'm crying, he like, oh, okay, she just cleansing herself. She's okay. But it took him a while to just really be okay with my tears because we are so, in a lot of ways, men are so used to seeing us so strong that they don't know how to handle us when they see the soft side of us. And, you know, that, that, that is exactly why I've taken the approach that I have. Because, you know, first of all, like you'll notice, I don't interview anybody who's not chocolate. Like everybody interviews black, right? And the conversation, I'm sure white people got their own issues, but like the conversation for me is exclusively black. And the reason that is, is because there's certain concessions and there's certain grace that we must have for one another. And one of those things, for instance, black women have been made to be strong. Black women have been made to feel ugly. Black women have been made to feel worthless. Black men have been made to feel impotent. Black men have been made to feel like weak. But yeah, and that's true. But I think, I think what happens and why it seems like, you know, combat a lot of times is that I don't think we properly pay homage to what was done to each of us individually. A lot of times we're just comparing versus like, yo, it's certain things I have to not necessarily tiptoe around, but handle with like kick gloves with this black woman and vice versa with this black man. So to your point earlier, like, we need to recognize that, listen, a lot of our black boys in particular, like not only are they being raised by a woman, but they're also being educated by women. Some boys don't see a male teacher or authority figure until they enter college if they enter college, right? So we have to pay homage to what that means. Like, what are the consequences of that? Right? So all I'm saying is that if we took more of an interest in the psychology of the pathology of each side, I think we would have not just conversations but conversations with comprehension, right? Because I think that's more important than just talking. One of the things that I had to learn that really it flipped a light switch for me. Somebody told me that, you know, whereas men process our emotions through our thoughts, women process their thoughts through their emotions. So a lot of times a woman will quickly say, I feel dot dot dot, where a man will say, I think dot dot dot, and it pisses men off. And I'm sure it pisses women off because a lot of times, oh, y'all don't express yourselves enough, this, this and that. But again, if we are able to like comprehend that and pay homage to why is his psychology like that, as opposed to his psychology should be more like mine. We're not the same. I love this. I love this conversation. So I'm going to kind of get back to my other question about like, what are we doing or what should we be doing to help? And again, I know this is a larger conversation, but what could we be doing to as the village to help these boys that don't like you say may not have a stable male figure in their life until maybe, you know, college or whatever. How can we what should we be doing to intentionally like try to like write that, you know, or I guess in part the proper masculine training that they need if we're, you know, we're emotional women, like what could we be doing? I'll answer that by telling you what some of the feedback that I've gotten has been as far as like the men saying what went wrong with them as it relates to their moms. Okay. Number one, the thing that I've seen come up the most is their mom spent a lot of time and energy insulting the father, you know, and for good reason, a lot of times the father wasn't involved, whatever the case may be, but the reality is a lot of boys process that as well if he ain't ish, I'm me, I ain't ish, right? The second thing that I see happen a lot is a lot of boys, I mean, a lot of men have even said that I didn't become like my father, right? I didn't become run to the streets like my father. They said, I became like the men that I saw coming in and out of my house. The third thing is there needs to be I think it starts with humility, but there needs to be a concerted effort by women because, I mean, for all intents and purposes, whether we like it or not, I don't think it should be the case and I'm working on that, but our community in particular is run by women. And that's by design. I don't think it's y'all's fault. I think that's by design. So there needs to be an intentional effort, especially when a boy crosses that age of like 12, 13, he needs to be in sports. He needs to be around mentors. He needs to be and another thing that I saw that was really powerful. I think it was Dr. Warren Farrell talks about it. Being mentored has good effects for boys, but the thing that they found has a larger effect is being a mentor. When a boy is beholden to a younger boy, to show him the way, they actually perform better. So certain things like that. But again, I don't have all the answers. I'm just trying to aggregate as much information as I can. You know what, Antonia, I know we are getting ready to come to a close. Here's something as I wrap up and something that I'm really grappling and struggling with because it's like when I'm at work, it's not even a conversation that we can have because it becomes too politically incorrect to have it. But it's like how we're able to bring in our different opinions and agree and disagree in this form about masculinity and femininity until we tell the truth. And this is why we have to pick the right schools for our kids and schools that align to their values because the truth of the matter is the school system is actually taking away the ideas and concepts of masculinity and femininity. Things have to be much more gender neutral. I used to do boys' assemblies and girls' assemblies. Now I'm like, I don't even know if I can do it all. Now I've got to read the guidance. And I'm like, I need somebody to talk to the boys, right? I need to have a conversation. I told the girls my story about like what happens and like just how you can, people can pray on young girls. That was the conversation I wanted to have with the girls. But then it's like people get to pick. I'm saying to moms, we need to pick schools. And we need to be so such advocates in our school system because I'm telling you, while this concept of masculinity and femininity, it is being deluded and being erased in schools. And so if you're relying on the school to uphold your values around those topics, it just won't happen. It's fading. It's going quickly. I'm concerned that in three to five years, we won't even have male and female mentoring programs. I mean, any time we're talking about the girl scouts being girls and people are saying, well, I want my, like somebody else to have access to it. And I'm listening. I'm not even, this is not pro or con against anything. I'm just talking about in the realm of this conversation. And we do need to think about the impact of that on our boys growing up into the type of men we wouldn't want, you know, we want our girls, right? If men are taking on these quote unquote feminine traits, if that's what we're talking about, then who are they looking to for kingship if their kings have been taught to actually behave like queens? So there's a lot of conversation around that. Absolutely. And I do want to say, you know, in girls, the fit girls are a lot more adaptable than boys. Girls are a lot more adaptable than boys in my experience. And and socially speaking as well. The book that I was referencing by Dr. Warren Farrow is called The Boy Crisis. And he actually hyper fixates on the black male, because a lot of these things that are happening are affecting the black male disproportionately. And when we look at it in historical context, like this country was built on the labor of black boys, the death of black boys. So, you know, our girls will be a consequence of how well our boys are doing. And I think that's that's part of, you know, where it gets contentious. But like, our girls are going to be fine. Girls are adaptable. Girls are going to like black women are leading in degrees right now. They're starting businesses at the fastest rate, whereas black boys are still feeding the prison industrial complex. So like that needs triage. And part of that triage, for better or worse, if you if you dislike Kevin Samuels, if you like a Kevin Samuels, what he did for 1.4 million people and we can't understate that he created a standard. He created a North Star, whether that North Star was the aesthetic of a man, how to dress, whether that North Star was the salary of a man, what you need to take care of your family, how you carry yourself, your social profile, he created a standard. And I think for boys, especially for men, we need lines in the sand. Girls don't need lines as much, but boys literally need like I play football in high school. Kevin Samuels is not is every coach I've ever had. You know, and that's how boys process information. Now, I understand it doesn't work with women. And that's why I take the tone that I take. But boys, there's a different there's a different nature and we need different things. You gotcha. Yeah. Well, this is this was, I think it was a good start. I mean, we just like scratching the tip of a lot. Yeah, it's a lot there. Yeah, a lot, a lot to think about a lot to process. I really appreciate you being willing to come on and kind of speak, you know, to share your thoughts, share your perspective. It's we're talking a bunch, but it's important, I think, to get a valid mail point of view. We don't always agree. We don't have to always agree. But it's interesting to at least hear where the other side if I could say this, this one thing. One of the things that's actually surprised me since finding success on YouTube right now, we're at 30,000 subscribers. The majority. Thank you. The branding around like the man is fear and and these spaces where men talk the barbershop and the whole nine. It's it's believed to be like in cells and nerds and dudes who haven't found success or pissed off at women. Actually, what I found is a lot of these men are married. A lot of these men are divorced. My largest age demographic is between 34 and 54. These are not boys. So like when when a lot of this rhetoric is coming from the male side, it's seasoned, it's aged. It's it's not, you know, fly by now by night. And I think part of the resistance sometimes, especially from younger women is thinking that, oh, it's just boys who are upset that I didn't text them back. And it's like, no, it's deeper than that. Because a lot of the boys are doing the work and the only reason a lot of people don't know this. The only reason Kevin even transitioned to talking to women in the first place was when he took on these male clients as an image consultant, these men who are making $250,000 a year, $300,000 a year, black pilots, black engineers, black doctors, they came back to him after looking and smelling good. And they said, listen, Kevin, we can't find any women. We can't find any suitable women. And here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing because I expected that. Because here's what here's what happened, right? Here's what happened. And this has been my experience as well. This has been my friends experience as well. All my friends make six figures and they're black. And they're my age, right? What they're finding is, can I find a beautiful woman? Yes. Can I find a woman who makes as much money as me? Yes. Can I find a woman who's nice? No. Can I find a woman who's agreeable? No. Can I find a woman who doesn't just minimize me to the amount of zeros in my bank account or my height or things I can't control? No. So again, if a lot of the men that women said they want were being rewarded by good outcomes with women, it would be different. But not only are the nerds not getting good outcomes, the good men aren't getting good outcomes as well. So that's part of the conversation. I'm really fascinated to really dive into and explore more. I mean, it's something to, I mean, we, from a female perspective, we can say like, you know, we know, and I'm sure everybody on this panel knows a handful of great women, you know, again, but I'm not in relationships with them too. So I mean, there is that too. Well, well, I just want to say this last piece. I'm sorry. Women evaluate women how they would evaluate a man. Yeah. And I understand that. See, I've learned, I've learned men look at different things. I'm learning men. Exactly. So she's not your friends. My man is your point. There we go. I do. I have, I can probably count, you know, without even thinking about, you know, who lists out a number of women that would fit that. And it's the, I guess the question is, and we're going to have to have that. We have to have that. But the question is basically, how do we find each other? You know, I do believe there are great men out there. I believe, I know that there are great women out there. How do we get, how do we get them in the same room to find one another is the question. And then on top of that, how do we translate these great qualities into things that our kids are picking up so that, you know, the next generation of spouses can go forth, be fruitful and multiply. First of all, I told y'all, we've got to have a mom squad arranged for what I can. We're going out on a date, like on a, you remember that good morning Vietnam, going out on the, on the end of the day. Okay. Talk about a lot of stuff, but yes, Alan, you are awesome moms. Thank you. Thank you guys. Because I promise you I went down, I went down a hole yesterday. I love the format, love the layout and you're only on YouTube, right? Only on YouTube. Yeah. Start with the one, Tony, did I post the one with the girl with that lady with they were talking about marriages and oh, thank you for being on. Thank you for your perspective. Thank you for having me. My face, my face. But this was good. And I think it's always good for just some, some reflection and all that other stuff. And you know, you left us with some things, you know, I'm just going to leave you. I can't wait to hear what you are speaking directly to these kings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're working on a series called Black Men Talk. And yeah, what I plan on doing with that, because I again, I was talking to black men in college. What I plan on doing with that is having one-on-one conversations. So it's similar to the format now, but with different archetypes of black men. So I want to talk to a black doctor. I want to talk to, and I've had these men reach out to me. I had somebody who's a, he's an executive for a Fortune 500 tech company. Like, he's married, he's married. But the thing is, like, I want to not only show black boys the blueprint on how to become these different archetypes, whichever one that they're interested in outside of rapper and athlete, but also to show black women the diversity of black male thought. So like, that is something, the first episode, I haven't dropped yet, but it's a police officer's name is Nathan Dailey. He's also on YouTube as well, phenomenal individual. He's working on police reform. He's working on educating our community about how to interact with police. So like, the work is being done. I can assure you the work is being done. Well, we look forward to that. So thanks again, Alan. Where do they find you on? Yeah, yeah. So on YouTube, it's just we need to talk one word on Instagram is WNT Talk. And that's pretty much it. Awesome. And yeah, I wholeheartedly like to know where you've been spending a few minutes in the day, checking out the conversations. They're really, really interesting. Appreciate you guys. Thank you for your time. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me. No, so I'm, I'm from Nigeria originally, but I live in South Carolina. So I'm in South Carolina right now. Okay. When you bring that fan chair to Chicago. Thank you and happy birthday. I appreciate it. Thank you. And I just want to say, before we get out of here, we're going to have a really needed conversation next week. This is May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And so we're talking with Deborah. Deborah's coming on. Yeah, we're talking with Deborah and a lot of her stories.