 So, hello everyone. Welcome to the second in the series of webinars as part of the Empowering Temporary Foreign Workers Project. This project from Kairos Canada is funded by the Government of Canada's Temporary Foreign Worker Program. My name is David Ivany. I am part of the Empowering Temporary Foreign Workers Team, and I'm honored to facilitate this webinar today. Also joining me from the migrant justice team at Kairos are Connie, Shannon, Alfredo, as well as Father Peter Chalala, one of our partners in this project who is going to be joining me in co-facilitating and moderating this session. We also welcome Dr. Shankar Nisathare, Medical Officer of Health for Norfolk-Haldeman County, and Stephanie Pongratz, Director of Public Health in Norfolk-Haldeman County, who we will hear from shortly. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge that we are meeting today on the traditional territories of the Indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. We thank them for allowing us to meet and learn together on their territories. To the original caretakers of this land of which we stand, I acknowledge the land of the Huron-Wendat, Patune, Seneca, and most recently, the Mississaugas of the Credit, Indigenous Peoples, where I am right now. To all that was here for thousands of years before us across Turtle Island, we honor the struggles and the lives of those who gave themselves for it. For those here today, we acknowledge the ancestors beneath our feet. We acknowledge the land. Our ears to the ground, we can hear them. The Cree, the Metis, the Dine, the Soto, and Anishinaabe, the Dakota and the Kota nations, the Inuit, the Blackfoot, the Inu, and all nations that came before us and those yet to come. An infinity of footsteps of those who long called this land home, the unfolding of bundles, the undoing of colonization, and the opening of this land to allow a treaty to come alive. We affirm our relationship to each other and to the land. We acknowledge and pay respects to the Indigenous nations and ancestors of this land. You are welcome to introduce yourselves and your affiliation and where you're hailing from in the chat. As we move into the presentations, we ask that you keep your mic muted, unless you're going to ask a question. The Q&A will take place in two sessions. So please hold your questions for then. But we'll ensure that there's plenty of time to answer all your questions over the over the session. We are recording this session. So if you do not wish to appear in the recording, you can turn off your video if you're asking a question by audio, or you can also put your question in the chat and I will move them into the audio presentation. So I'm going to ask Father Peter to please introduce our guests for this session. Take it away, Father. Thank you, David. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm happy to be here again with you. I just found out that Peggy Congras, the Director of Public Health, is joining us. So most of my remarks introduction are to do with Dr. Shankar. That's right, but of course, it reflects the good work, the exceptional work that is being done by the whole team. I just want you to know that I call him affectionately and with respect, Dr. Shankar brings a wealth of experience and international training and expertise from Boston and to his current position on the Faculty of Health Sciences at McMaster University. Dr. Shankar began his long and illustrious career in medicine as a resident in Boston when the AIDS epidemic exploded back in the 1980s. His specialty in infectious disease, his care for the patients, educating the public, and advocacy would prepare him well for perhaps one of the biggest challenges he would face in his medical profession. I think he would say so, the COVID pandemic. But before speaking to his current role as medical officer of health for the Norfolk Caldomin Health Unit, you should know that Dr. Shankar continues to train medical students and future doctors as a member as a faculty professor for the Medical Health Sciences and McMaster University in Hamilton. One of his areas of specialty has been rehabilitative medicine for patients who are recovering from stroke, brain injury, amputation, cancer and fractures. Now as the medical officer of health for the Norfolk Health Unit, Dr. Shankar and his team had to deal with the pandemic crisis, certainly under the most trying circumstances. Lives were on the line. Not only were they diligent in protecting the public at large, but they had to respond to the different crises and outbreaks at the local nursing homes and farms, which impacted hundreds of migrant farm workers. For the purpose of this discussion, you should know that those of us working on the ground here locally as advocates for the migrant workers have come to truly admire and respect the work of the local health unit. Personally, I was with the team when the tragedy befell a Scotland farm back in June of 2020 with the death of Mr. Juan Lopez Chaparro. We visited all five of the installations where the men were living to convey the sad news. Our work went well into the middle of the night, as Dr. Shankar answered each and every one of the questions and concerns that the men raised those who were in quarantine. While the tragic death of one is one to many, I can say with confidence that many lives were spared and many outbreaks contained as the local medical health team went into action. At times, though, their efforts have created some controversy and tension, mainly among some of the local growers. You should understand that while the farmers generally do cooperate, there's still much to be done in terms of education and prevention when it comes to the COVID health crisis. For example, last year, the health review board sought to overturn the mandatory three workers per bunkhouse policy when the men are when the workers are in isolation. However, in response to that, many local advocates, churches and organizations were vocal in their support of this policy. We believe that the policy saved lives and spared many others from being infected with the coronavirus. And in fact, in the end, the courts ruled in favor. Recently, it was announced that Dr. Shankar will be stepping down in May in his post as the medical health officer. By then, the vaccines roll out should be well on its way. While we would say that there's no one more deserving of well earned rest after putting in countless hours and days of dedication and care for the local community, we can say sadly his expertise and advocacy will be missed. I look forward to Dr. Shankar's contribution this afternoon, and you will come to understand and appreciate how Dr. Shankar is able to take complex medical problems and explain it to us ordinary folks with very little medical background. And so we welcome Dr. Shankar and Peggy to our conversation. Thank you. Colleagues, Father Peter, thank you for allowing me a few minutes to speak today. My colleague, Stephanie Pong Grants is here, and she's able to also provide some additional questions. I answer any additional questions. I repeat myself, so forgive me for that. But so COVID first is the public health services mission as best as we can as to minimize disease transmission in the community. But even as broader mission is to try to advance health of the community as opposed to any specific individual. And that ultimately requires us to balance many competing risks and interests with the hope of trying to achieve the best possible public health outcome. Secondly, the public health unit is focused particularly on people that are disadvantaged or otherwise suffered disproportionately from the burden of illness or diminished health. So we work on we work on trying to minimize the burden of illness overall. And we try to particularly focused on the disadvantaged or those people who have historically poor health outcomes. Thirdly, this is the first year approximately of the outbreaks in Alderman Norfolk. And we know that COVID-19 is a disease primarily communicated by respiratory droplets. So if someone coughs on someone sneezes on them, they're likely to transmit COVID-19. And we know that the number of cases worldwide has increased over this past year. Once COVID-19 enters a household or a residence or a nursing home or a group home or a bunkhouse, it can spread very quickly. And that's even more of a problem this year than last year, because these new variants of COVID-19 are thought to be even more infectious than the old variants. Most people who get COVID-19 have mild to moderate respiratory symptoms. They have cough, fever, chills. And most people get better. However, a smaller percentage of people, especially the elderly, can succumb to it and ultimately die. And in this health district, approximately 39, 39 people have died, of which most were elderly. But a number of note of the 39 deaths 12, where people lived in the community, they're not all older people who live in nursing homes. When people arrive from overseas or arrive into Canada, they're supposed to self isolate for 14 days. And after that period of self isolation, if they don't have any symptoms, the chances of them having COVID-19 or having it and ultimately having it resolved and not giving to anyone else are diminished. And that's why we have the self isolation period for 14 days. I want to share with you that, you know, farm workers are arriving at the airport, testing positive for COVID-19. And we've felt we've faced that challenge. And one of our goals is not only to provide good clinical care to the people who arrive who arrive with COVID-19, but also make sure they don't transmit COVID-19 to other people be that on the bus, which we see which we are concerned about, or in the in the bunkhouse, or the self isolation residents, or in the bunkhouse after self isolation. So we work, we work to try to minimize the transmission of self COVID-19. If someone's residing in a hotel, we don't want the someone who has COVID-19 to transmit COVID-19 to another migrant farm worker, and we don't want them to transmit it to other people in the hotel, be the guests or workers. And one of the things we say gently, but it's important is, many hotel workers are also at the lower end of the economic spectrum. And many of them are from more modest circumstances. And we owe it to them as well as to protect their health and safety as well. And it's always a balancing act between these competing interests that we that we try to we try to address. Moving forward, what are the things that we can do to help migrant farm workers. So I hear a few things. One is, and I've spoken to provincial officials yesterday, and I've spoken to federal officials. One is, is that we can offer all migrant farm workers vaccination at the time of arrival and be preferred actually be vaccinated in the home country. But if that's not possible vaccine at the time of arrival, after two weeks of subsequently, the vaccine is likely to prevent them from getting sick. Number two, direct transport from the airport to their self isolation residents, because we know that people can infect other people on the bus. The bus trip can be two and three hours. Number three, let people isolate alone, preferably, but in small groups, as opposed to isolating 20 and 30 people. We know that COVID-19 is spread by people sharing bathrooms, kitchens, and bedrooms. So if you have a self isolation residence, and you have 25 people get off the arrive, and one of them gets sick, that could potentially affect 24 other people. And if other people get sick, the quarantine period is also extended. Theoretically, you can have a very long outbreak, because you have a lot of people in self isolation. Number four, if there is an outbreak. Number four, make sure these, these workers have family doctors, we've found that many of them have no family doctors, no access to basic health services. Number five, if there is an outbreak to find places to self isolate people individually, so that they can recover individually and also separate those people are infected from those who are not infected. And I think if we do those sort of six steps, we can improve the health status of migrant farm workers for this season. Quite honestly, I'm more afraid about this season than last season. And as a public health matter, I think that we want to try to do our best to advocate for the best possible public health plan. So, well, I'm happy to answer any questions that that people might have. And Stephanie is available to answer any questions that people might have that I am not familiar with or cannot answer. I have a question. Hello. Oh, hi, Anthony. Hi. Yeah, I had a question. So I am the migrant worker COVID response organizer in Winnipeg, and I am with Manso the Manitoba Association newcomer serving organization. And so I'm working on this project to support migrant workers funded by ESDC. And part of the work right now involves reaching out to the community, and also, you know, other faith based groups to see the kind of work that's happening. And I'm wondering, sort of on your end, what what kind of resources have been provided to support these workers? Do you have infographics or, you know, pamphlets that you use? And could that possibly be shared? So we have a whole variety of educational materials written in many common land home country languages. And those materials talk about the self isolation period methods and strategies reduced to transmission of COVID-19. If you were to send me an email, I can, I think we can share some some of the information that we have in our health district. That'd be great. Thank you. Sorry, doctor. Do you have an email that I could reach you? Sorry. Father Peter has my email. And just if you send him an email, he'll make sure it gets to me. Oh, okay. Somehow we'll get you the email. Don't worry. Connie can probably get it to you as well. But we'll get you the email. We'll make it honey. It's been a while, Connie. Hi, we'll connect after, you know, after the webinar to yeah. Thanks, Connie. And we have a question from two or TWN. Yeah. Hi, everyone. My name is Michelle, too. I'm an occupational, occupational health nurse with the occupational health clinics, monetary workers in Hamilton. And Dr. Shankar, I want to thank you not only for all your work with this population over the last years, but also for those incredibly excellent five recommendations that you listed out. And I have to say that I share your your concern about this season as compared to last season. You know, when workers came last season, essentially they weren't coming to disease on farms, but this year they are. So I'm, I just was wondering who you shared these recommendations with and whether any action on this can be expected? I've shared these recommendations with the federal government and the provincial government. Mr. Massey has been gracious enough to take my phone calls. I've met with federal officials and senior federal advisors. I've written to the prime minister and the now and that's on behalf of the health district and to cabinet ministers responsible. Six other medical officers of health, including six of the six medical officers of health, including the chief medical officer of health for Ontario have articulated many of these concerns. And yesterday I was on a phone call with a Mafra, which is the Ministry of Food and Agriculture and Rural Affairs and the Ministry of Health to advocate for these items. At this point, the number one thing that we can do to help migrant farm workers from getting sick is to vaccinate them at the airport. And the political calculus is, is that we need, you know, vaccine and who gets vaccine is so emotionally charged. But I think that if there's one thing that we can do to help migrant farm workers is to vaccinate them as they arrive at the airport. And if we do that, I think we'll have substantively reduced the risk of them getting sick. A vaccine doesn't necessarily prevent you from getting infected. And it doesn't prevent you from transmitting the disease to somebody else. But it is a definite opportunity, I think, to effectuate the plan. And it makes good public health services. This is, you know, the public health services is apolitical. When we think of risk, in my district, in our district, Stephanie and our district, there are approximately 4,500 migrant farm workers who arrive every year, and about 250 have been infected. There are 110,000 people in the district overall, in about 1,250 have been infected. So the risk of a migrant farm worker in Haldeman, Norfolk being infected is many, many times greater than a general member of the community. Now, there's a question on the chat about, well, will migrant farm workers have to isolate at the airport for three days? Well, that was true for all arriving visitors. And then owners of agricultural enterprises were and farm workers were exempt from that requirement. Apparently, that's only that exemption only last on March 14. And, you know, it's been our position that there needs to be more federal action. In fact, our position at the health district is that the federal government should manage a self isolation period for all migrant farm workers and not local health districts and not farmers. For both the resource point of view, and also from a fairness and justice point of view. The only people who do not have who cannot pick where they need to self isolate or migrant farm workers. Their self isolation plans are dictated by their employer. And it's not just migrant farm workers, other seasonal agricultural workers. I think there's a fundamental asymmetry in that policy. And from my vantage point that we've advocated for this since September. Notwithstanding that there hasn't really been much action on on that item. I'm sorry for being so long winded on these responses. That's thank you very much for that. From your perspective at this point in time. Is there any action that can be expected? Did you get any messages about? Yes, we will pursue vaccinating workers on arrival. Your messages are very good, very clear and with a lot of people. Just wondering if there is any hint of movement on them. Yeah, you know, we've been advocating since September, the most part we've not had a formal we have not had a formal response. I remain optimistic with that, you know, some action will be taken. The issues are not the public health issues. And I don't think the issues are the recognition of the problem at the level of public health officials. The problems are really about for vaccination, it's really about the political will. And you know, the public health service advocates in an apolitical manner, we just tell what the facts are. Why some groups got a vaccine and why others didn't is was modulated in some part by some level of constituency management. And this is like a lot of disadvantaged communities, they don't really have a powerful, powerful enough lobby to effectuate the plan. Now migrant farm workers are going to be in the next phase of vaccination. But my concern is, is that most of them will already be here by the end of April. And we may have missed the golden opportunity to prevent outbreaks. So time is of the essence. From a public health point of view. There's some other issue that's important as well, which is that when there are not when there's an outbreak on a farm, and we had one outbreak where we had 220 people infected and 18 went to the hospital and 12 were admitted and seven were admitted to the intensive care unit. And two were put on a ventilator and one died. It was just one outbreak. There's that human toll. But then there's a toll on the public health service as well, because at one time, we had 39 people working on managing the outbreak, which means that that's 39 people not working on vaccination for young people for children. 39 people not working from maternal fetal care care for mothers and newborn children. People not working on inspection of restaurants. People not working on inspections of pools and spas, salons. All the other stuff that the public health service does is diverted by these outbreaks. We had an outbreak over the Christmas time and I have we held the staff Stephanie and I held the staff all the way through the holidays. So, you know, I don't I don't I know your time is precious and I want to be labored at this point, but in medicine, as doctors, there's certain things that money can't fix. If you have pancreatic cancer, we can't fix that. But in this particular case, a small amount of money can keep people safe. A small amount of money can give people people safe. The second issue is the science supports it. So that many of the people that we vaccinate now are probably at lower risk from dying from COVID than migrant farm workers. And yet they're ranked higher in the priority list. And so I think from a public health position, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask that one thing one question. Federal government, please vaccinate migrant farm workers at the time that you do the test at the airport. But if they were to do that, that would make a huge difference. If they were to say, please transport these people by private car to the farm, that would that would make a huge difference. It wouldn't solve the problem would make a huge difference. Both of those are just about political will. It's nothing else. It's not about finding a new treatment or investigating the science or anything like that. It's just about allocating resources to it. And anyway, I don't want to belabor that point. But I think that's really where we're at today. Dr, if I could just play a little devil's advocate. So let's say you're advocating for priority vaccination for the migrant worker, someone might say, well, then you're depriving more seniors, or other vulnerable people. Do you see that as necessarily conflicting or, or can the two demands be met simultaneously? Sure, you know, I'm a one level father, Peter, I have to chuckle that as a priest, you've brought the devil into this, but I think it's still an unanswered theological question, Satan exists, right? So the devil exists. We are back back, I think the first group of people that should be vaccinated are the very old people over 80, we're already doing that. Then there are a whole group of people who are vaccinated who are at a much lower risk of getting dying of COVID. So that would include somebody like maybe a 30 year old doctor and training in neurology, or perhaps a person who works in a non clinical field at the hospital. But right now, we're vaccinating all healthcare workers are virtually a large proportion of healthcare workers who have a lower risk of succumbing. So I think in the justice framework of allocating a scarce resource, my personal view is that workers sit higher on the higher on this issue. Now, this goes to a very difficult philosophical position, which is that are some occupations more virtuous than others. So everyone intuitively says, Well, we should vaccinate doctors and nurses. Well, doctors for the most part see patients in very controlled circumstances. I was at the farm, there were 200 people at the farm who were infected. We wore a mask and a facial we were fine. None of my team got in. None of our team got infected. Doesn't mean we won't lower level healthcare workers, people are paid lower salaries, people work as personal care attendants, they've been infected. I've seen that. So I think that the justice issues fit squarely towards vaccinating migrant farm workers immediately, especially as I look to the list of people vibing vaccinated now. The second issue is a public health policy issue, which is that the consequence of a cluster of people being getting sick like two or three is relatively easily manageable by the public health unit, a couple of calls, a couple of calls over a period of time by a couple of calls. But when you have an outbreak with 250 people, and you have to transfer them to a hotel and manage their self isolation plans and try to speak to them in the language that they can understand. That's a huge amount of resources that saturates the public health service. So that's another reason. It's just not the risk, but the it's just one more reason why we want to use public health resources. Wow. I'm just looking at the chat room here. Yeah, and there's a comment about from Connie about the letter that Keros had signed. And then Mr. Pereira said, Why do we sound like we're just group transmitting COVID? I think that, you know, this meeting is about migrant farm workers, but almost all air travel is associated with risk. And that is something that we have to contend with is that air travel is a risky risk that we all face. And these are the balancing acts. It's just not trying to contain COVID before it when people arrive, but it's making sure that other migrant farm workers don't get COVID. And if you look at the farm brow breaks, that's one thing we recognize that the people who suffer disproportionately in these outbreaks are the workers themselves. Because they're more likely to get infected if COVID makes its way into a bunkhouse. They have less access to physician and other health resources. You know, I know you know this, but many people don't know that many, many migrant workers can't go to the regular doctor's appointment. They don't have regular doctors. Their work schedule does not permit. It doesn't permit going to the physician during the work period. And so it leads, I think, to a whole group of challenges. But I think to Mr. Pereira's point, it is the vector of transmission is not only migrant farm workers arriving. There are other people are traveling. If you travel on a plane with holiday makers and other people, those people are also at risk for transmitting COVID on the plane. So Mr. Pereira, I appreciate your comments. And I'm happy. Mrs. Pereira, I'm so sorry. I'm happy to hear your dialogue on this or answer any other questions. I have to run in about eight minutes or so. But thank you for that perspective. Thank you. I would like to ask a question and maybe to make a comment. I'm Elisa Martel from Grand River Community Health Center. And we have the vaccination as a measure that probably can control the issue of transmission from this virus. But the other issue is that besides the vaccine, when the workers go to the farm, they don't have practically any access to health services. And to think that workers are going to have a family physician is really to be very, very, very unrealistic. Because even the local population are still many of them are still looking for a family physician. So considering that this is not going to happen, I wonder if there is a way that we'll create some kind of link between public health, farms or the workers and centers like ours or walking clinics that can provide that service to the workers. It doesn't matter which day of the week. And so if there is a more coordinated work in regard to clinical services for the workers, maybe that can be more effective and in preventing outbreaks because then one worker can feel free to call and to let the whoever the physician is there know about symptoms and the physician can do something about it and to prevent a spread of the virus within the farm, I mean within the farm. So I wonder if that is possible because at this moment it sounds like one group of people are talking about one thing the other group was talking about the other thing and the fact that they are not talking to each other, they validate the effort that individual groups do. That was one thing. But the question that I have is in regard to this, I don't know if this is mandatory, but I have read that people go to quarantine for 14 days and they are asked on the day 10th to do a self test for COVID-19. So my question is are these workers going to be doing this self test too in regard to COVID-19 in the host in the hotel when they are in quarantine? Is it mandatory for them? So Mr. Martel, the first, I think your first point is a very penetrating one. The lack of one agency to provide overall management and supervision and care for these individuals is a deprivation. You know, we have one agency managing all air traffic. We have one agency managing the hydrogrid. But we have this piecework, patchwork system. Secondly, if I had my way, every person in Canada is guaranteed a doctor. And right now the people don't even have an OHIP card on arrival. Those are simple things the government can do immediately to give people access. And that's true for all people. You know, equality is such a beautiful concept. If that's what we advocate for, just think what we would do for our own children. I would never let my children not have an OHIP card or access to a doctor. So why would I? And so I think those are all very fair, fair points. This patchwork system is not working. The second issue about self testing on day 10, that would not be my recommendation as a public health physician. In fact, for the most part, they don't ask our opinion, despite the fact that Norfolk County has the highest concentration of migrant farm workers outside of Windsor Essex. We don't the federal officials do not do not ask for our opinion. The test that they're proposing is a self administered test, meaning the person supposed to do the test themselves. We still have no idea on how the test once it's done would actually get to the lab, because the test is only good for a period of time. That's we refrigerated a UP. We understand that some courier is going to pick up the test. We're not sure how people with, you know, having having been involved in the outbreaks, it's fair to say that migrant farm workers are the lower socioeconomic status in their home country with likely lower educational attainment. A self administered test in the best of circumstances is hard to do. Actually, if I had to do a test like that, it would I would have to spend 20 minutes, a half an hour reading the thing to figure out what to do at what period of time, let alone coming from another country being in a bunkhouse not having access to the internet, reading instructions that were probably not made from your home language. All of that is completely inexplicable to me how this can come about. Secondly, I'm not even sure the test is needed. If you self isolate for 14 days, we don't release people in Canada based on a test. We only release them if they're a close contact. So if you because it doesn't matter what the test shows. If the test is negative or positive, you save your 14 days. That's the end of it. What this test may end up doing is putting people in longer isolation periods for no good reason. So yeah, I'm very concerned about the test. I was not consulted on it. Neither were my colleagues to my knowledge. And it's not a good public health policy. So I'm sorry, Mr. Martel, for going being a long winded. I have to leave in five minutes. So I'm happy to answer one more question if I could. And thank you. Thank you. One more question and then we need one. What is the protocol this year for my workers after quarantine for 14 days, coming to town? Oh, you've been going from my perspective. Once it's for anybody else, you finish your self isolation period. You should do all the responsible things everyone else does, you know, minimize your time outside your residence, only go out for essential tasks, wear a mask, say two meters away from other people. Don't have dining events with people or outside your family. If you know that's hard for migrant workers, but I would say eat in your room. But otherwise, the restrictions for migrant farm workers after they finish the self isolation period should be no different than the recommendations we have for anybody else. Yeah, because sometimes they ask and they are afraid sometimes to leave the farm, even if it's, you know, going for a ride on a bicycle. So they are afraid that they're going to get caught and then they're going to be in trouble. So they always they ask that question because they don't know the protocols when they get here. So it will be nice for us to give them, you know, an answer that is going to be good for them. So at our health district, you know, I tell farmers that people don't have no compelling reason to leave. If you can provide a service to people on campus and they want to take benefit of that, that's great. So if people have to travel for money exchange and money exchange can be done on the farm and the workers want it, that's fine. I think that's okay. But that's their choice. Quite honestly, I wouldn't leave that like I stay at home. I try to stay at home as much as possible. I don't let my kids leave that to go to the grocery store. Because even now, I don't think it's worth the risk. But I think that migrant farm workers should not be subject to any greater restrictions because they're migrant farm workers related to leaving their residents. The bunkhouse is their home as now, if I had my preference as a long term policy choice is that people have their own room with their own kitchen and bathroom. Because that's less likely to stop the transmission of COVID and other communicable diseases. And you know, we have to I think as a culture, we have to think long and hard about the asymmetry of this relationship. You know, that's not an immediate public health issue, but it is a longer term issue, which is, you know, we have a community of people who live on the residents of their employer. Now, there are other people like that, like mining workers and oil workers, but they are relatively highly compensated and they work two weeks on two weeks off. But as a philosophical matter, I think that's something that we have to think about. So with that, I think, Connie, you had one question if I could answer briefly and then if I could be excused. Thank you. It's not actually a question, Dr. Shankar, but just really, you know, to say thank you so much for your valuable, you know, presentation on information and clarification on issues that many of us sometimes understand. And I just want also to say that, you know, your five recommendations, the government or the temporary foreign worker program is conducting a consultation briefing and it's going to be tomorrow and I'm going to be bringing, you know, lifting up these five recommendations that you shared with us and presented to the meeting tomorrow and also the call for migrant workers, farm workers to be vaccinated when they arrived, instead of going, of having another COVID testing upon arrival in addition to the COVID testing that they have already 72 hours prior to departure. So thank you so much. And we hope that we could have you in another time, in a longer conversation. Sure. So if the question is a granular question, there's one advocate that says we need the federal government to give a special allocation directly for migrant farm workers on arrival. The reason I say that is because if you don't have the special allocation, they'll get caught in vaccine disputes. We have a special allocation for indigenous people in our district. And this is a process that should be managed by the federal government at the airport. If because people will try or the policy choice below let them do to the local health district, we won't have any fast way of getting to 5000 people at the health district. So it's at the airport, federal authorities do it, and it's done. And that is the I think the best approach. And I would focus on one approach that that is what should be wanted. That's wanted. It's consistent with fairness. It's also consistent with the public health. It's consistent with proper public health practice. So that's the one thing I would keep harping on. I wouldn't. I wouldn't focus on cleaning bathrooms and education. People already know how covid transmitted. So but if you could focus on that, I think that the public health officials would resonate with public health officials as well. And that's the message I've given Mr. Massey at the federal at the federal government. So with that, I thank you so much for allowing me to speak today. And I wish you all the best. And Father Peter, I know you're a priest and you never do these things for anything but the glory of God. But you've been an immense resource to the to the workers and the people of the health district. And thank you so much for all of your work collectively. And for Father Peter is for your work in the church. Thank all the best. You too. Thank you, everyone, for allowing me to join the meeting today as well. Take care. All right, Stephanie. Thank you, Stephanie. It's so gracious of you to work on your day off for us. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be talking a bit about what the process looks like currently and we're going to get into what changes have come over 2021. But just one quick thing I wanted to touch on there was sort of a more philosophical question in the chat that I think is really valuable in moving through what is like a government process. And Christine in the chat as part of talking about this as a human rights issue as do we value migrant workers as much as all other Canadians? And I think often as is there's framing that happens as we hear news about this in terms of outbreaks or potential outbreaks. And Fauna also said, why does it sound like we are just a group transmitting COVID? And I think it's so important to put this as a people first issue. It should be about the safety of migrant workers and giving respect to migrant workers through this process rather than treating migrant workers as a vector in this disease or in in the virus. Sorry. So I think really putting human rights and safety for migrant workers at the forefront is so important to how we frame a discussion on this topic. So with that, I have David, can I just add a comment? Yeah. Yeah. So what I explain to people, sometimes people in my community say, well, father, you were at that farm and you're you're going to get catch the disease or whatever. I said, no, no, no, no, no. If I wear PPE, I'm trying to protect the workers because I'm the one out in the community. They're the ones in the vulnerable situation. And that's the way we look at it is that they are more in a vulnerable, precarious situation because of the congregate living. So when we talk about protecting, not so much saying the migrant workers as transmitting, it's us who are potentially at risk to them because of their living situation. So that's what Dr. Shankar was trying to draw our attention. Yeah. Absolutely. And Connie, you wanted to say something? Yeah, just just to say also, you know, that these webinars that we're doing is primarily focused to highlighting the issues that, you know, temporary foreign workers and migrant farm workers are facing to to inform us to inform the general public and also to to gather support and understanding because a lot of people might not know where the migrant workers are and how they are faring, especially during this pandemic. And this is a task or this is a work that we've accepted with the funding that is provided to us by the federal government to empower temporary foreign workers during COVID-19. So it's it's not to single out the the migrant workers, but rather to have this space where we can all lift up the issues that, you know, you are facing and how can and it's a question for us on how can we further support you? Right now, we are doing this in a more community coordinated approach where we try to have partnerships with local and community organizations collaborate with each other and be able to to to develop and deliver, you know, a coordinated, collaborative approach. So we're not duplicating, we're not competing with each other, but rather complimenting, you know, on each other's work and to make sure that you are able to reach out to as many migrant workers as possible. So just to, yeah, to provide that context. Thank you. So I'm just going to go through the process as it has been and is shifting to currently, just so we have an idea of the landscape that's going on right now. So many parts of the process of coming to Canada as a temporary foreign worker during COVID-19 have remained static since they came into effect last year. I'll be talking through that process first and then adding in the layers that have been added into the process leading into 2021. So coming to Canada, the standard protocols for travel during COVID-19 are present in the process for migrant workers. So wearing a mask and not traveling while showing symptoms connected to COVID-19 as part of their journey. Migrant workers are expected to show proof of a negative COVID test to board the plane. They will also need information on where they're working and quarantining as well as either having the arrive can app open an email receipt from arrive can or print out of that receipt depending on access to a smartphone or not. They also need a travel plan in place for getting to their accommodations once they've arrived in Canada. Information about how their essential needs will be met during quarantine, so how they will have access to food and confirmation that they're not going to be isolated with vulnerable groups and then their work permit for arriving. I mentioned the arrive can app. So there's the flyer for it. So to further elaborate arrive can is an app that facilitates travel into Canada. This is for everyone coming into Canada, but is also required of temporary foreign workers. So it collects travel information, their quarantine plan and the COVID-19 symptoms self-assessment before travel. And upon arriving in Canada, it tracks the quarantine process by having the worker confirm that they've arrived at the quarantine site and then for the quarantine period submitting daily self-assessments. While the app is the easiest way to use arrive can, there are other options available, including desktop computers or phone for people who don't have access to a smartphone or a data plan while in Canada. Although the phone number is a 1-800 number, so there are issues with using SIM cards from other countries potentially. While the purpose is to ensure that there is a quarantine plan in place, that active symptoms are not present during travel and the 14-day quarantine is followed. The app does not utilize GPS location for this and only collects information given by the user. So it's not a surveillance app, per se. It only utilizes information that's put into it. So upon arriving into Canada, workers will follow their travel plans to head to their quarantine accommodations where they will stay in their residences and practice physical distancing for the 14-day period. Members of the same family arriving together can quarantine together. If someone who arrives in the accommodation, a new quarantine period has to start. So newly quarantining workers or those not in quarantine should not be housed in the same facility as the quarantiners. We heard a bit more about that process from Dr. Schenker and we can discuss it further after this as well. After the quarantine period, as Dr. Schenker said, they can begin working normally and begin they're free to leave the facilities in which they're living. The recommendation is that this follows the guidelines, the safety guidelines of the province. So saving it for essential trips, continuing social distancing and mask wearing and following lockdown procedures if those are in place. So there have been some changes in the process in 2021. As Francine mentioned in the first webinar, there are some complications due to availability of tests in certain countries that would be sending workers to Canada, specifically the Caribbean. There are also many costs associated with getting tested pre-travel when there are tests available as well. Further to this, if a positive test comes back in your home country, there would be additional costs to either travel back home, retest or quarantine and reschedule traveling in place. So these are some of the issues that are being sorted out currently and due to commercial flights to and from Mexico and the Caribbean being suspended, chartered flights are flying migrant workers to Canada, but only to four cities currently, Vancouver, Calvary, Toronto and Montreal. I believe they can connect to local flights from these four main cities and begin the quarantine process when they arrive in the locality where they'll be working. Because of the constant costs and availability issues for testing, there is some some debate about testing, both pre-air and upon arrival in Canada. The current process remains in place for the safety of the workers, though, in mind with what we know about the gestation of the virus. Currently, a COVID-19 molecular test is taken upon arrival and a second test kit with instructions is given to all workers to do a test later in their quarantine to assure the worker and employer that the worker is safe to begin the season. As Dr. Shanker mentioned, there are some issues with how those second tests are going to be collected, but we can also continue to discuss that afterwards. The requirement that those arriving in Canada wait in government-approved accommodations while they wait for the results of the arrival test has been deferred for migrant workers until the 14th of March as they work out a tailored solution specific to temporary foreign workers because of the amount of temporary foreign workers coming through. There's some debate about whether hotel quarantining is is feasible or what the government is going to be responsible for in that process. So we're still waiting to see where we go with that. But we that that is in development. So hopefully we will hear something quite soon. Post quarantine period workers must be allowed freedom of movement while respecting safety measures in place. They're encouraged to stay home as much as possible as we all are and avoid gathering in large groups, but are absolutely allowed to leave the property of the facility to purchase essential goods or to get out and exercise or for self-care. So that is the state of things as it's supposed to be. I'm interested to hear from partners if they have had different experiences with this or if people have questions about sort of the state of things as they are. So you're free to ask questions. You can put questions in the chat or raise your hand with the reaction button. And I see some questions and answers are already going on in the chat. So look forward to hearing from you. Maybe maybe the question that I have is in regard to this. They they tend to quarantine self-test because listening to Dr. Shankar it seems that it's not probably health asking for it. So then if it is not probably health, who is asking for it? Who is making it mandatory? Who is supervising it? Who is monitoring it? If the test is negative or positive, what happened with the worker? And there is a mask in it because some farmers and also some people working with farms are are worrying about these measures. So but when I listen to Dr. Shankar seems that in some places it's going to be mandatory, depending on I don't know what and your places is like it doesn't exist. So do we have more information about that? Wondering about that as well. That was listed in as part of I believe through the Service Canada site. But like I'm not clear sort of of the infrastructure that's holding it up. Connie, did you want to respond to that? And we will get to your question next. Felena. Thank you so much for raising that question, because now I kind of share your question as well. After hearing from Dr. Shankar and clearly stating that these policies are coming out without direct consultation with public health and for those who are really health practitioners and directly on the ground. So I will be bringing that up to this consultation that I was talking about earlier. It's happening tomorrow. And I also wanted to say that for this webinar, we actually invited Service Canada to join and be able to speak particularly on these new guidelines or the guidelines and these additional measures and so forth. But I think as again, Dr. Shankar said, there are no clear plans put in place yet on how to go about this, you know, the new measures or additional measures. And I think, yeah. The issues and recommendations and kind of solutions that Dr. Shankar, you know, presented to us is now becoming very clear in terms of. The lack of coherence, you know, particularly both of the federal, provincial and even community level with regards to public health, implementation of this and making sure that, you know, it's not just the migrant workers that we're worried about, but the overall management of the virus for all of us. So, yeah, I will I will definitely bring this up. Thank you. You can go ahead, Felina. Hi. Good afternoon. My name is Felina Pereira and I'm a migrant farm worker here in Simcoe. And my question is on based on David's last comment as farm workers. Is it when farm workers are out of quarantine after the 14 day quarantine, we are allowed to walk freely or go to the grocery stores? Or is it you talk about? Well, no, with this this year, quarantine after for 14 days, we are we have to stay in the hotel accommodations, but we're not allowed to come outside unless there's a balcony. So I was wondering that that comment you made, was it is it specific to after quarantine or within quarantine? Because last year, I remember being in quarantine and the bung houses or the accommodations were flagged or they had ropes outside that you couldn't walk over. So that's that's my question today. Yeah, I'm I'm not entirely sure on I some of it is, I believe, like, farm to farm in terms of the quarantine period, in terms of being able to leave the facilities. I think it's dependent on the kind of facilities that they're being housed in during that process. But certainly after the quarantine period is over, there is there is a sort of more complete freedom in that. But I was reading an article about the sort of strictness of hotel quarantine stays and not being able to leave the room. And I'm not sure if that's standard across the quarantine experience. No, I think it's just an awful carly man fountain. Yeah, so I wonder about the sort of. Can I say something, David? Yeah, absolutely. When I when I was dealing with the workers in Bradford, they were also restricted to their rooms as well. The I did have a little bit of conversation with Dr. Shanker and the remember the other thing we have to remember when you're in quarantine, you're not just protecting the workers. You have to protect the staff. So they also have to be protected. And some hotels I can't comment on all facilities. I know that in Bradford, they're basically restricted to their rooms. And in fact, they restrict them even to a particular wing. And that's for both protection of the staff and the workers. When my mother was in quarantine during an outbreak, she couldn't leave her room for 35 days. I know she was an elderly woman. But I my point is, is that quarantine is quarantine, whether you're a migrant worker, resident, Canadian, you know, we're dealing with a very highly infectious disease. And we're just trying to, you know, make the environment safe for everybody. And so, yeah, so that's I do see the point of the policy, you know, trying to safeguard everyone. But like David said, once the mandatory 14 days of once the workers out of quarantine, yeah, they and there's an actual document called freedom of movement that the workers should have the ability facility to go about and do their his or her. You know, shopping and other errands like any other circumstance, like Dr. Schenker said, wearing a mask and just, you know, social distancing and so forth. So that's what I my comment to that. Any further comments from? Yeah, I also just would like to add that, yeah, the 14 day quarantine is a 14 day quarantine. And it's not just in trial. And I think I would like to invite Anthony from Manitoba from Winnipeg to share how that is being, you know, implemented as well in other provinces. Also to say that as Father Peter mentioned, after the 14 day quarantine, you have the right to mobility. And there is a federal letter, you know, clarifying that, that, you know, workers, you have the right to be able to go out and buy your groceries and and send money and so forth. But recognizing that, you know, each and every one, you are in a tight employer and each and every one, each farmer would have their own kind of regulation and protocols and you have the the the choice, you know, how to go about it. In the Cairo's website under the migrant justice, you know, webpage, there is a number and number there and community partners and contacts that if you need help, if you need assistance or you have questions, you can refer to you can, you know, call this community partners that is in your location and and share, you know, what what are your barriers? What are your issues and how can they support you? There is also a tip line that, you know, the government has provided and and you are encouraged to use that. And if you are feeling that, you know, it's putting yourself at risk, you can ask any of the community partners to make that call on your behalf. So it's not you making the call. It's not your personal information that is being shared. But, you know, another party and we are supported by the Canadian government to do this. So just, yeah, that those services and support it's available and you can visit our website to connect with partners on the ground. Yes, Anthony. Can you hear me? Hello. Yes. Sorry, Connie, can you repeat the question again? Sorry, I are what she was wondering about the the quarantining in the quarantine period and whether it was a complete isolation in one room or if there were other sort of ways that that was happening in Manitoba? Yeah, no, that's a great question. So based on the Manitoba COVID-19 protocol here, I think the same regulation applies elsewhere. So for people who are coming out of province or Canada, they're expected to be in quarantine for 14 days. And with respect to, you know, safety and health regulations, people are mandated to, you know, wear a mask in stores. And we are advised to lower our social interactions outdoors unless people are from the same bubble. And so, yeah, the measures here are pretty strict. And yeah, there already have been cases of people like in the past month receiving like over a hundred tickets in Winnipeg. So the fines are pretty heavy. And, you know, there I think Manitoba at one point had the highest cases of COVID per capita. I think you probably heard that. And the outbreak started in Brandon among Maple Leaf workers who are, you know, mainly migrant workers. And so with with that said, I think there's has been some proactive measures taking place. But I'm not sure if you read, but the government of Manitoba recently published a report just this Monday that said BIPOC, so Black, Indigenous, people of color are disproportionately affected by COVID-19 here in Manitoba. And what was interesting was that among the BIPOCs, the Filipinos were the highest groups to be at risk for COVID. So again, you know, people are saying, oh, community spread. But in reality, what's happening is that the transmission is coming from the workplace and there isn't support for these workers. Yeah, and that's been sort of true across North America through the pandemic is that it's the that safety precautions have to meet with policy. And hopefully we're like through the continued discussions with Service Canada, we can work towards having those mandates sort of extend through the through the industry for the safety of the workers. And Lennox was asking about whether there's a way to track whether farms are keeping with the three workers to bunkhouses. And I would dare say probably, probably not. And I think part of the Service Canada is part of doing more inspections on farms. And I think I think data collection kind of needs to be an important part of that process. But maybe that's just me. And yeah, I think we need more information. More information, and that's across a great many social issues in Canada, but especially in terms of migrant workers, like we know numbers coming into the country quite often, but I think sort of expanding out what information we have will help better assess what we can do to make the work more safe for the workers as years progress. I like Christine's suggestion to contact MPs and MPPs about demanding vaccination for migrant workers. I think that's an important step in the process. But these things take time. Just looking for any other questions. And if anybody wants to put up their hand, let me know. Or I think I heard someone. David, there was a question about the workers' per bunk houses. And that was one of the controversies, unfortunately, Norfolk-Haldeman Health Unit had to deal with. And although I'll just say it very bluntly, it's a cost factor. So the math is very simple. The more people you have in the bunk houses are quarantined, and if one of them is infected, that means more exposure to the virus. So the bunk houses, I don't know if people are familiar with it, but they are, yes, divided in compartments, but the showers and the bathrooms are shared. And that's the point. That was the issue. So these are not self-contained little apartments with their own bathrooms. So the workers, mostly men, have to share the same washroom and the same shower facility. So taking that into consideration, that's why when there is a mandatory isolation, there is a need for no more than three per bunk house, even though these bunk houses, and Dr. Schenck was sort of hinting at it, long-term, these bunk houses have to be reconsidered. They're just not humane. When you're talking about 30, 40 or more people living in a shared space, it's clear that COVID has exposed some of the weakness in the living conditions that these workers face. But anyhow, so that was the controversy. But many of us advocates, organizations, churches, were strongly in favor. And at the end of the day, the courts ruled very strongly in favor of that, said, no, that's right. The three people per bunk house make sense. And so the health unit's position held out, even though there were strong, strong objections from some of the local growers. People have to understand that in Norfolk, they are a very powerful lobby. So sometimes, they can be very vocal. And the health review board is made up of predominantly politicians. So they're always going to be placating their constituents. So that was sort of the controversy and issue that was going on, at least the Norfolk. Yes, I just wanted to ask, have people thought of modular homes as a cost-effective way of providing accommodation rather than the bunk houses? A modular home would have its own kitchenette and toilet. You know, this is what they were doing for homeless shelters. They were considering that. Would that be an option? It could be an option, but I'm not sure, like from point of view of the local growers, you're talking about. Some of these farms employ 200 to 400 or more workers. So that's why I think Dr. Shanker's point was valid, that it's tough. And I can understand for the individual farmers too, that they have to now, how do you provide all this? How do you do all this? And so the point that Dr. Shanker was saying was, you know, the government has to take more ownership of this and not just, you know, leave it up to the local farmers, health agencies to supervise all this. Because it is pretty onerous, you know. Not that they all arrived at the same time, but you're still dealing with large cohorts. And like in a place like Simcoe, there's only so many hotels you can find. There's all these challenges, you know. But yeah, modular homes or even smaller trailer homes that are more self-contained. I think not only for quarantine, I think down the road, this is a better way to go for the overall health of the workers and their living conditions. It was an episode of TBO's political blind dates that was dealing with the migrant workers issue. And one of the farmers was showing the shelter that was being built with rooms for two people, with their own safe storage, and one bathroom for the two people. And I believe one of the people brought up like how quickly is it that these could be built to be a response to the pandemic? That kind of sat in the air. Because there is, it's difficult because we don't already have the infrastructure. But I think something like modular homes or something that can be set up quickly would be good. But even then, you know, where the workers are already starting to come in. So I think the solutions are going to have to be faster than the ideal solutions can be. But it's difficult to gauge sort of where to put priority when the issue is so big and so impending. It has been my experience for 14 years working with the UFZW and it's taking a pandemic to improve a little bit the housing conditions for migrant workers. It is a dream and it could be, I mean, it will be a dream if that happens where a migrant worker can have their own bathroom. But is it going to happen? I mean, it's taking a long time and we, I've seen awful housing conditions. So and it's taking this long and a pandemic and a virus to improve just a little bit for farmers to build a little bit some houses to accommodate. But I think once the pandemic is gone, they are going to go back to the same housing conditions because I think the lobbying, the agricultural lobbying in this area is really is very strong, very strong. So I think politicians listen more to the farmers than the voice of the workers and that's reality. Brian Felena? And I also remember the following from Fanny was saying that workers don't vote. So politically speaking, they don't have weight. So if a politician has to choose between a worker and a farmer, he will go for the farmer because that's where the vote is and that's the one who can create some political damage to this person. So here we are dealing with a reality that is huge and very complex. And so and I think that what Fanny was saying is probably something that we have to keep in mind, but at the same time to see how can we prevent that to happen is that the things once the pandemic is over, the things don't go back to the way they were before. Otherwise, these things will be just a happy memory in five years and we can't let that happen. And another thing is to keep the noise to bring it to the public, bring it to the newspapers, not be quiet because that's once it's out there in the public, then people know. Like when I came when I was working with migrant workers, the only way I knew about the conditions was because I was doing a census. And I thought I can believe it. I can believe we are in Canada. When workers came to me, they couldn't have an aspirin. They couldn't go to the doctor. They couldn't have transportation. Some workers were deported, repatriated because they were sick. And that's how it got involved. It's like so the more groups that join us and the more people that are out there fighting for workers, the more people are going to realize, yeah, this is real because migrant workers are invisible. Let's face it. They are invisible. People don't recognize them. So we have to keep fighting for them. Connie. Thank you so much for saying that. And funny I know for us, this is a very kind of personal and also passionate thing that we do. And we recognize that this problem has been going on for a long time. And it is during this pandemic that it gets more highlighted. However, we also know that we recognize that there are good farmers and we want to lift up those good farmers so that they become sort of a model among their peers on how to benefit from the workers' labor, but at the same time respecting, respectful of their human rights, respectful of the rights of workers in Canada. And the awareness that we are doing now is kind of widening that circle of informed Canadians and informed farmers and employers. And I actually would like to let you know that we have a farmer with us in the webinar. And I would like to invite him to share his perspective as he was listening to the presentation and also to our exchanges. Morris. Sure. Hi. Thank you for having me on the call everyone. And I'll introduce myself a little bit and then I can give you some of my recent experience. I have workers quarantining on my farm. They just took the 10-day test and I'm very hopeful that I'll get a pause, all negative tests back shortly. So my name is Morris Trevay. I own an operated farm called Berry Hill Farms just outside of Berry, Ontario. My family's been hiring migrant farm workers from Mexico since 1989. And I guess the reason I'm on this call is because perhaps I'm kind of an endangered species or you might say a unicorn or something. I'm a farmer but I'm also passionate about human rights and social justice issues. I come from a Catholic Christian heritage where I had two uncles that were priests. One was a missionary priest that served in the Philippines for many years. So I actually visited in the missions and another uncle who was a bishop. So I come from the Catholic faith community and I'm a farmer. And so I believe that some of the best foreign aid that this country does is the seasonal agriculture workers program because through this program my farm has offered not a handout but a hand up to workers in Mexico who have I know the stories. We can't get into this right now who have actually been able to really better their lives back home and continue to do so. So I believe in this program and I believe that if there are farmers that are not being fair in just farmers and those farmers need to leave the program and we as Canadians need to do as we always do as Canadians take the high road. And so I think that's for the most part what this program is. I think that's what it needs to continue to be because it's a valuable program. Dr. Shanker mentioned that really this is about the philosophy of migrant workers in this country. Yeah and I believe it is. The struggle that we as farmers face is this. In the marketplace if I must pay so let's say double let's say $28 per hour for migrant work I cannot compete against imported food coming into this country and stay alive. Okay so I can't do it. So but in essence the solution to many issues is vote with your food dollars. Choose Ontario food. Don't choose imported strawberries coming from all other parts of the world. So those are the solutions because politically it's kind of complicated. So that's that's how I see this program. I see it as a valuable program and and and you know what I am in a precarious situation. My business is in a precarious situation. Okay in terms of competition from imported foods coming in cheaper and undercutting my product and if I don't get my workers I don't even know that I'm going to open my farm this year. Okay so food production in Ontario is in a precarious situation because of this. So you're right it's complicated. There's lots that we can do to improve okay but it's just like I can't see it ever being feasible to house. Like I employ I'm perhaps a medium size farm. I employ I had housing for 42 guys pre-COVID. I need 42 workers to harvest the crops on my farm. I can't see the economics of having a private suite for every worker. It's just not going to work. I mean we have to get through this COVID thing but I just can't see that working because I can't see other jurisdictions across the world doing that. So so we got to it's going to be tricky to make these to solve these things. In terms of the short term I've got experience with the arrive can app. My seven workers who are quarantining they had all kinds of trouble. They weren't able to first of all they tried they have internet access but the system wasn't really they were having trouble. It was it was in Spanish but they couldn't actually log on so they just gave up. So we've they can't get in and they've given up and they've got so many days behind that they couldn't do it. So the app was in Spanish but it wasn't working. They were having all kinds of trouble logging in and then really I can't go into the bunkhouse to help them right. I can prove the internet access is provided they know they're supposed to do it. We talked through the window but we can't we couldn't get it done. Then they'd phone in the 1-800 number and that 1-800 number was in was in English or French only so they they so the arrive can is a big is a big bit of a mess. With the switch health update switch health test on day 10 that was crazy. I spent the whole day on Saturday trying to get a hold of switch health. I set up a internet connection because actually they're supposed to have an internet connection and they're supposed the nurse is supposed to come online and witness the guy putting the swab up his nose to start. But once I got on the internet connection for first of all the nurse didn't speak Spanish switch health does had no clue what they were getting into when they signed this government contract. They had no idea that they'd have to do 10,000 workers and they'd need workers to speak nurses to speak Spanish for 10,000 people. So because the workers at my farm were on one of the first flights that came in that they gave these tests to I was able to get a hold of switch health on the telephone and they were kind enough I guess I just got lucky they were kind enough to have a kind lady by the name of Daniella she spoke Spanish she came on and it took her about an hour and she talked the seven guys through doing the test over the telephone okay so same thing I had this little area set up there's a porch outside the house where they're quarantining and and I looked through the window and I stayed away in my distance and then she handed me the thing the the workers put the the bags that the tests were in into a fridge and then pure later came yesterday and and picked them up and I'm just kind of on pins and needles here waiting to see if they will all test negative hopefully yes but it was interesting Dr. Shanker said today that even if perhaps even if they test positive they're not contagious and I mean who knows that's the crazy thing it's just this whole thing is I had someone the other day describe it to me is it's as if we're flying this airplane and we're building it as we're flying you know it's this has been so so difficult to try to negotiate through so um so yeah I mean yeah I believe in in social justice yes I believe in doing the right thing yes there are loads and loads of ethical farmers out there and the farmers that I know these workers are like family to to me to them and so I mean but it's good I think I don't believe that the word precarious describes the workers that come to my farm because it's their career and I can tell you lots of stories about how they better their life back in their home countries so you know yes we need to be concerned about the safety of the workers and yeah absolutely I want them to get vaccines but you know what how about how about the safety of the farmers that are bringing these guys on to their farm I didn't hear that spoken of once today yes we need to be as a team yes there needs to be equity and justice but we as farmers in Ontario are simply trying to make the living doing good and noble work of growing fresh fruits and vegetables and I'm trying my best but for me if I have to live through too many more seasons like this I I don't know if I want to offer I don't want I'm the second generation here I don't know if I don't know if this is a lifestyle I want to pass on to my kids the third generation if it's this difficult every year we gotta we gotta gotta get through it somehow and we got to think about it in justice terms but in food security terms for our country for the country of Canada so uh so you know in in terms of this project uh what are farmers going to need help with what are workers going to need help with well perhaps stick handling through the quarantine process um my next workers that come I think I'm going to have to have them in hotels I didn't think of that I didn't think of this risk because it's it's it's evolving and changing so rapidly uh last year when the workers came they they they they quarantined in their bunkhouse with with less lesser capacity so no bunk beds and there was space and we gave them PPE and cleaning supplies and told them to wear masks and stay apart in the house and so that's how we did it so I was going to do the same this year but but all this testing and everything's coming along so it's changing work it's changing as we're flying the airplane so I think that's what I'm going to need to do is put workers into hotels and so therefore man that's a lonely and that's like a 14 day jail sentence and so how can we help them get through that and how can but perhaps how can kairos help the farmers negotiate through this because I don't have a dedicated person to do this and pretty soon the snow's going to melt and I'm going to have work to do over and above this so it's going to become challenging for all involved to keep everyone safe the workers the farmers and my kids living on this same property yeah and I think thank you so much for your insight it's it's good to hear the farmer's perspective as well like that it has such a cross cutting effect on everyone involved in the industry so thank you for your candor and sharing that yeah it's there's such a fine balance that needs to be struck in terms of the safety of everyone involved and finding a way to prioritize creating safe work environments from the top down and bottom up like sort of multi directional approach to ensuring that work is being done safely and that farmers are being supported in continuing this program that has been so important to so many workers and farmers as well and protecting our national food security as well so thank you so much there's there's quite a bit in what you shared with with us so thank you um as an outpouring of that do we have any sort of further questions in the chat or uh from those gather teeth um yes we thank you for your perspective Mr. Gervais I'm thank you I'm glad to be here I'm just kind of typing a little private message back but I mean I don't think there's sides in this I don't think and it's not us versus them it truly isn't um there was a farmer near me that I transferred workers to and he wasn't treating his workers right and I felt terrible about it I went to bat for him and actually he's no longer in the program so that's good so that's that's what we have to have but you know it's interesting Dr. Shankers when the when his announcement came out last year that three workers per bunk house it's interesting my idea about it has changed a little because we know a little bit more now about about the how contagious this truly is which maybe we didn't know a year ago but but also it's it's a difficulty in a one size fits all I know that their merit may be some workers with older accommodations in in that area that uh you know probably didn't have adequate spacing but I also know that then I've seen some really big beautiful bunk houses with central recreation rooms and one kitchen for five people which previous to COVID worked perfectly fine right so so now we've got these issues of of okay so what perhaps we need we need our own sink and bathroom and eating facilities during the quarantine period but then can congregate living take place as if they were a family bubble once they have once they have exited the 14-day quarantine and then it's going to become an economic consideration for farmers is how many tiny groups of housing can you have because as a farmer that's going to reduce my risk I have four bunk houses uh COVID approved last year one was for four six sixteen and seven so those were the ones they had previously much higher limits but now I'm looking at it and then well that's not even safe to quarantine these guys anymore so once again it's all just changing and then economically how much can I invest in bunk houses to spread that out and is there enough profit in the business keep in mind and of course man we can't be vilified as farmers for making a profit it's a risky risky business and unfortunately unless my farm can make a boatload of money one year like almost double what I need then next year when I get a hailstorm or I've been through it one hailstorm boom you're done there's nothing you can do and so as a good manager to be able to keep employing all the people that I do I mean I got I got 40 families in Mexico counting on me to give them work and if I close this farm there's 40 families in Mexico without work so I'm not a greedy man most farmers love what they do but it's risky business we have hugely capital intensive businesses land and irrigation supplies so it's it's unfortunate I wish I could do it on you know hopes and dreams and fresh air and sunshine but unfortunately it's it's a money business that's that's I don't know so so if if the profit margins become too tight then farmer and I think you're going to start to see farmers egg is dig after this year anyways I knew last year some asparagus farmers that decided to just take the season off in Norfolk if they were in their 60s and approaching retirement they thought it's too complicated I just won't grow my asparagus this year but some people can't but you know I think you're going to see a turn away from fruits and vegetables and just grow to go to commodity corn and soybeans in the future because all you need to do is have a combine and a tractor and you don't need this massive human resource requirement so you know anyway so that's where it is and so I think farmers would have would appreciate some help if you have volunteers on the ground to to help with this fantastic ideas to get a to get a family doctor if you got a family doctor in the area that will sign up to to take them or if there's a clinic that will agree to see them and man we as farmers would would welcome any assistance that that this group can can provide thank you for that in sort of your response there you were also speaking to what Michelle had asked about in terms of some resources you think are needed from farmers there are a few government programs specifically financial support in terms of quarantining like financial supports from the government to fund paying quarantining workers but I'm sort of curious what other programming is available from the government for farmers so that's something that I think is worth looking into and I think as is sort of being evidenced in the chat like buying local and really taking to heart that the Ontario grown produce and foods overall are beneficial not only to the farmers but I think it is so important to the entire economic system of the province and country to really consider how you're voting with your dollars well yeah and you know what it's I think it's in I mean that's the industry that I'm familiar with so I see it in in food right but it's everything I mean it's every product we buy and that's one of the good things of the pandemic people are beginning to support local in everything but what it's going to require if I want to buy my wife tries to buy clothes made in Canada it's hard to find well if you can find it then to me the fastest way to achieve change someone will follow the money somewhere somehow right so if which comes first the chicken or the egg I see a lady knitting there on the thing make some Canadian make clothes and we'll buy them and then we'll keep this all together and we'll support each other it's starting to happen throughout the pandemic it truly is and and maybe there will be you know an appreciation more of an appreciation all throughout the whole economy but certainly with food you have your hand um I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your perspective and we welcome you know to hear more from farmers like you to balance the conversation and to really ensure that you know when we raise issues about situation of workers and their vulnerability we talk about farmers who are not like you and so as one of you know the participants said we need more farmers and bosses like you to ensure that there's justice there's equity and the workers rights are kind of promoted and protected I just also want to announce that this project that we have now in Ontario the project that Carol is implementing or doing and the covers Ontario New Brunswick Nova Scotia and PI is also happening in other you know provinces in Canada so for example we have Anthony with us from Winnipeg and he's with Mansu the you know the provincial organization in Winnipeg and there's also AMSA in Alberta and Saskatchewan and the Catholic CCIS the Calgary Catholic Immigration Services and in Quebec we have there is another organization that is supported by Service Canada to not to provide emergency assistance and so forth but also to support you know temporary foreign workers during COVID and this is Immigrant Quebec so if you folks know friends you know contacts with migrant workers in those areas in those provinces please have them you know connected to the organizations that I mentioned we would post more information as well about them on the Cairo's website so there's more you know kind of collaboration sharing information and that workers in other areas and other provinces that are facing difficulties barriers and so forth can still be supported by this other organization so I just wanted to share that and I guess we're also nearing the time day to day yes yeah as we're winding down I just wanted to remind everybody or I wanted to thank everybody for attending the second webinar in the series but this has been very fruitful in terms of discussion I've learned quite a bit and I'm excited to learn more the third webinar in the series is going to be about mental health of temporary foreign workers strategies for provision on one side and also tactics and tips for workers themselves that's going to be taking place on March 23rd and I've included a link to the next webinar in the chat and if you wanted to save the chat it's not the file but it's the three little dots next to it if you have the chat open and you can click on save chat there for if you wanted to save the resources and a video of this webinar will be made available on the Cairo's website under resources in webinars and documents and I believe there will be a way to connect to it through the migrant worker project as well so unless there are any further questions from people thank you so much for attending and we appreciate all of your insights thank you and thank you for Father Peter for I just posted Dr. Shaker's email so it's posted thank you so much yeah thank you everyone and see you all at the next webinar yes yeah thanks