 What's it called? Gas lamp. Cheers mate. Oh that's red. You can smell the fruit from here. It's nice. This is Brother's Wild Fruit. It's very opposite from the camera. It's English Sider. It's obviously it's not a berry flavour I suppose. I hope so. Bursting that kind of colour. Sider from Free Spirits. From Shepton Manor. My name is Celia from Shepton Manor. Are you Free Spirit? Yeah. I've got two drinks. Let's show the camera. Two drinks. And they're both very very strong. Very strong. This first one is called And that's why I don't like cricket. That's from a song. I love cricket. Yeah. So if you don't like cricket it's one of the reasons you but we're in Manchester and England have just lost the ashes. Yesterday they lost the ashes. And they lost them in Manchester. Four tests. It's quite a sad day for English cricket but we won the World Cup. But it's a cricket name drink which is six. No, this one is 5.3%. The other one is 8.3%. But we'll get them to that one in a minute. This one's 5.3%. Which is still quite strong for an ale. It's not a session ale is it? It's double dry hot. Which I now know what that means. It's... When I say fruity it's not compared to what you've got. There's a little bit of floral fruits in there. A bit of wood. A bit of wood? I'm not. That's what it smells like to me. That's what it smells like to me. But if you've got an expert and they probably say something different. Good. We're all happy then. So we're in Manchester and it took us a while to get set up. But we found a lovely little subterranean drinking den. What is that? It's a wooden bath. Craft beer. I'm going to take a shot of the bar. I like the look of the bar. There's lots of patron dews. It's quite old-tiled. There's lots of tiles on the walls. It's kind of a lot of wood. A couple of fine places in here. Kind of a converted cellar I suppose you'd say wouldn't it? Have you ever seen the film Cancel Massacre? No. I can't. So our viewers might have seen it. It's my kind of bar. I like this kind of bar. It's good. So we should toast our newest patron. We have a new one. Gareth. Cheers Gareth. Thank you for the drink. Thank you very much. This is my batch of pubcast t-shirts. Yes. Getting lots of looks. Obviously if you're a patron have they had their t-shirts yet? Yes. We haven't seen many t-shirts. Photos yet. But thank you for contributing and we hope you're enjoying your gifts. There's a new tier. New two dollar tier. That should be the penis. Because you get a bag of peanuts. Yes. So if you want to support not really interested in all the before of a t-shirt and signed photograph and Christmas single and all that jazz you just want to support what we do. Two dollars. Get on to patreon.com slash the adult pubcast. But anyway enough of that. What are we doing? Welcome back from your summer break. You've been off for a while. Very little. You completely switched off. You just didn't respond to me. Was that just me? No, I cut myself off from social media. I cut myself largely off from my emails and just enjoyed quiet life in France for three weeks. Whereas I just cut myself. Yes. But no, it was it was French. And was France? Lovely. Very impressed. It's expensive, I think. Well, everywhere is expensive now. Because of Brexit. But by comparison our last holiday was in Sicily, in Italy. As soon as you again the coast was a lot more expensive than the door door. Oh, natural. It was nice. And it got warmer just by the time we were leaving it was 35 degrees. Which was warm. I feel, it's all kind of heat. I feel like the season just ended very, very abruptly. It went from summer to when I woke up yesterday. It was 5 degrees. Yeah, as soon as September started everything seems like happy season is finished now. Last year we had a nice warm September. It was so gradual merging to winter. I was reading, I think it was because I was following the cricket this weekend. I can't always struggle with statistically. But that. September in the UK is drier on record than August. In terms of rainfall. Well, not today. Oh, it's very wet today. Very bleak out there today. When they do say it rains much more up here. We're allowed to say it's up north. What it is for us. John McNessery who took Umbridge to that statement, didn't he? Yeah. Easy to wind up. Easy to wind up. Apparently according to John McNessery Manchester isn't up north. I guess it's all relative, isn't it? If you're on the north pole everywhere south. They're a fact for you. What are we talking about today? I don't really know. We had some... I'll find some because we had some people who said this should be on your pubcast. I saved them to my phone. Pubcast ideas about that album. Graham said I like the last podcast about cynicism. It was really interesting. Another interesting personality trait for me is how people like to be in charge. When a child promotes a flat structure I'm sure this is something a lot of scrum masters have to deal with in others or even within themselves. I wonder what it is that draws people to want to take control and be in charge. It could be scrum masters, product owners, team members or outside influences such as line managers. What do you think about that? We were talking about that today. Control. With regards to my daughter. Oh no, we were. That's a good case study if you wanted to bring her into it. 10 likes to be in charge. I know what it is. I did a talk a few years ago based on a book. It was the needs of children. Fundamental needs of children. And one of them is independence. So in order for a child to grow they need independence. They need to be encouraged to take their independence. So that is it for being in charge. Being in charge of independence. Taking control from others. So you imagine an infant grows up completely dependent. Unlike other animals that are born and born within hours. Babies are used to spend it on their mothers. They are a drain. Yeah. What's the word I'm looking for? It begins with S. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So they are completely dependent. They take more independence. And they take more control from their parents and their surroundings. They are constantly pushing the boundaries aren't they? Testing where can I get more? And I map that to the development of a team. Because in most organisations teams are very dependent. Their work is pushed to them. Their control. Their constraints are defined. Perhaps even team membership is defined. But over time they can become more independent. It's not like the binary life switch is turned on. But that need for being in charge. That's something that we come across. Because historically that's how managers that's how a lot of people have defined value in themselves. Good organisation that has been you are in charge. That's why you're paid the big bucks. Thanks for your reward. If you want to get anyone wearing life you've got to take control. Take that. Recognition when it's finished. Yeah. I think it's maybe something to do in the absence of decision making. We were talking about this today in our advanced class. But the idea because people find uncertainty self-comfortable even people especially maybe even more people who are in charge or feel the need to take charge of situations cannot cope with the anxiety of no one taking charge. So they feel because we noticed that even the simple games like the ballpoint game where you create a game where no one is in charge yet usually in larger groups I wonder if there's a social science element to this that the larger the group the more people feel the more potential anxiety and uncertainty so people feel more likely to take charge or whether it's just more personalities to choose from in that larger sample size. You're more I suppose you're more likely for the more likely candidates to come to the four. But we've had situations before generally the first volunteer is actually the worst of the exercise. Oh yes, yeah, yeah, definitely. And so with me Jeff we've done in advanced classes we've got five that's changed but I can set scenarios where we have some volunteers to demonstrate their behaviour but they think they can do it but they actually do a worse job than someone who sits back and waits for them. Yeah, yeah and there's that's sort of a little bit done in Kruger in a way which don't realise how incompetent you are at certain things because you've been assured from it or you just don't take that kind of feedback you ignore all the indications but where did this start? So I think there is an element of a basic human need to have control over your destiny. Yeah and I think if you're lacking so we have a number of needs and humans have needs, certain needs and if you don't have them fulfilled in one part of your life then you'll try and find them in another part of your life. So if you feel out of control at work then you'll try and find something outside of work that will allow you to have control. This is a hypothesis. I mean human givens would I think go along with that. The theory of am I adding value if I'm not in charge if I don't have control there's possibly trust do I trust other people to do a good job you know my wife doesn't listen to these pubcasts so I should be careful and I would agree with her there's an element of there's a lot of jobs that if I did them they would not be as good as if she did them and she knows that and I know that I'm stressed I'm going to do it wrong and then you're going to come back and do it right when I've done it wrong So that So there's fear of that there's am I getting this need met in anywhere else in my life if not I'm going to hang on to it at work but then there's I suppose there's an element of self preservation that if that's no longer my job do I have a job how are we going to pay the bills? It's also I think a lot of it is what I want to make you get a kick out I think some people do actually get a a buzz from the if it goes well, if it goes right and you get a lot of kudos for it a lot of respect for it which in some organisations leaders the people in charge are you know worshipped even by people who follow them but there's a following culture those people will largely get awarded for it and maybe first to get a kick out We do kind of deify action heroes that only in our culture and so the doers, the people who grab life by the scruff of the neck and culture if you do that I think there's also an element of rescuing as well for the people pleases if you see people floundering and you can come in and take charge and solve it for them I think that plays to your plays to your ego a little bit I've become very crabby we've talked about this before I get crabby when I'm hungry it's also my kids play huge partners as well so I'll give you the scenario the night before we get the ferry back from France we start we've got an overnight stay in a small town called Somalo which is the ferry port basically back to Portsmouth we're going to find a restaurant we've been driving all day we I've been driving all day we checked into the hotel we go out and we park the car we are walking just trying to find somewhere to eat nobody I don't expect my kids to decide where to be so between me and my wife nobody's making a decision so I make a decision which then turns out to be the wrong decision so this tells us a lot about me my default response to that was well okay then I'm not deciding anymore it's over to you now nothing to do with me it's still about you that tells you probably something more about me but the thing that frustrated me what put me in charge in the first place was a lack of decision you fill the gap so it just feels like someone's and I think maybe the the status thing within my family takes over a bit there my kids are hungry so I feel I have to be able to put food in my kids' hands so maybe that's an element of it but when challenged on it and when questioned on my decision my default response was which probably tells me something about myself thinking maybe I'm not comfortable with that role rather than stand by my decision I was willing just to say yeah so maybe some people are more accustomed to it than me well I've got a friend we'll call him let's call him Matt that's his name and he's renowned within our friendship group for I don't mind never make a decision doesn't like to be in charge no but he has to make a lot of important decisions on a daily basis of work so he has a tough job with lots of responsibility and I think that uses up all of his decision making oh I can see that you want a bit of respite just go with the flow I was talking about this with my wife today I went out for a drink with him and he said well Matt I'll have to pick somewhere why does he do that there's the fact that he has to make some decisions at work but also he's pretty confident we've known each other for 30 years that it's rare that I would make a terrible decision and any of our other friends would make a terrible decision so he's pretty comfortable with whatever happens and he's also someone that would make the best of it so he's not someone who would say that's the wrong decision he'd never pulled you up on it that's a terrible decision so I feel safe doing that the same happened for me this weekend so I have for the benefit of people listening I've been at the ashes this weekend so I had tickets for the cricket so it's your fault so a few of my friends were meeting up I went to watch the World Cup and we won we were meeting up in Manchester again and on the first night so we had the very there's actually what you describe so we meet in a bar and someone says where are we going to go and then someone else says no I don't know I don't mind I don't go where so then that's that murmur of nothing happened to me maybe that's the right thing to do maybe staying there is the right but for me a lack of decision making is what probably puts me in that Have you ever read The Dice Man I'm going to have to google this I'm pretty sure it's names Reinhard I'm going to say Luke Reinhard Google this Luke Reinhard The Dice Man there we go 20 years old 20 years old yeah so I read it long time ago and as I remember it the synopsis is a guy decides to leave all of life's decisions to the role of the dice so instead of making a decision he would list six options and he would roll a dice that would go from do I cheat on my wife to I think it included going to Vegas do I put money on red, black whatever he would set some and roll the dice and he would just go with whatever it came up with and I can't remember that but there was a sequel so he didn't die we toyed with the idea in our friendship group because Matt would never make a decision should we just roll a dice and he'd be fine with that and even then you are still making a decision of sorts because you're choosing the six options but that's almost all right it's no it's not, it's nowhere near as set based as you make but it is experimentation it's opening up options rather than just following your defence it's at least broadening your cognitive biases and I think we've talked about this before in that given the choice of the same or different I will choose different given the choice of the same or different I will choose the same so we're quite different and I think choosing different is the I think more people stick with the same if it's working stick with it even if it's not really working but it's probably better whereas to me the known is scary I think you're in my knowledge of it but again it was a resonance with the whole improv side the whole high status, low status accepting an offer that someone else suggests blocking an offer because you want to control the situation and Keith Johnson always said I think I've asked you this question before a long time ago probably not even on the public aspect who's one of my many heroes suggested that we all have a default we all have a default a tendency and he would suggest even if you walk down the street and whether you tend to stick to the inside wall to stay away from the traffic or you will willingly walk in the road to let someone else walk it's an instinctive response that we have it's not something we can control it's just to build on our DNA whether we will naturally follow a decision maker or we will be the decision maker ourselves and control the situation you think that's him built from birth that's what he was saying what do you think? I think I can only compare to me because I only know me I can't say anything I always tend to be a low status I prefer I will happen to go with an idea if someone else suggests it but I get very frustrated with a lack of decision maker he's having this problem I just think I'm weird but because I've reflected on this a lot in the past about how I don't know whether I actually have an identity because I will just fill the gap so if the team needs the decision maker I'll make decisions if the team needs someone to just shut up and follow I'll be that person if the team needs someone to argue I'll argue and that doesn't even have to be a team but you're happy to be different well I think that's yeah and that it bothered me for a while because there was a thing who am I but then I became comfortable with it if you do these what do you call it psychometric tests and leaderships questionnaires I would always come out pretty level I wouldn't really have a box to fit in just on the border I really don't believe it but my star sign from a young age when my sister used to read the star signs of things depending on which newspaper you got I was a different star sign because my birthday is sort of on the 23rd and so sometimes I'd be a cancer sometimes I'd be a leo I don't believe in star sign nonsense but there's that to my life story so you think you do morph into a good copy of this but you feel there's a word for that I do the opposite of copy I think I find the gap and I try and fill it but who recognises the gap me I think how do you know it's a gap I don't know quite possibly and I think there's an element this is weird I think there's an element it's very strong stuff Jim we need to introduce this one in a minute I think there's an element this is nice it's going to be weird you're uncomfortable though I am it's a bit weird because to me it's almost an element of balance I don't like it being an out of balance if you've got too many of one then I would try and balance somehow that's a need for quality fairness that's not bad but maybe fairness isn't the answer maybe I'm feeling a whole bit isn't there maybe there needs to be maybe there needs to be unbalanced or in balance in balance anyway onto my second half point wow we really didn't link that to agile very much my second half point what's it called it's got a weird name isn't it oh it's the black the big dipper it's got two words it's a weird so this is a collaboration of three different breweries so I think they've all just got their off cuts stuck it in a barrel Jesus that's quite strong 8.3% and it's one of those where you smell it that wasn't intentional that's 8.3% it smells fruity isn't it smells quite great fruity don't you I like sour I like sour we haven't conversation about it anyone I quite like the great fruity that's for a for an ale that's very strong is that why it's served in a small glass no I asked for a small glass I wasn't going to have a pint of it yeah that's how do you describe that that's another shit why have I been there besides this guy mine's only 4% a bit a bit sweaty yeah you don't sell like that what the taste I haven't had a drunker cup of sweat let's hope not I've had a can of sweat when I was in Hong Kong I was in a fishing village in fact and we were very very very hot we were very sweaty and I think we found a vending machine or something and the only can of drink it was in there it was called sweat it wasn't actually sweat but that's what it was called anyway what's it like well now it's warm so I ordered this nearly an hour ago after we set up we changed the table back to being in charge so I messed up my door from the beginning and I was wondering this the other day obviously I've got two kids at some point when they're older maybe they'll find this online somewhere and listen to this stuff it's quite interesting because my son has a relationship so my daughter is very controlling she likes to so if there's a group of friends we should do this now we're going to play this game you're going to be the wizard and you're going to be the princess and she'll be setting the whole thing up and my son whether it's nature or nurture I don't know this is the thing about being part of your DNA being the character in her game and even now he plays that role of being the follower to her suggestions I would say that's nurture more than nature the analogy that I've got in my head metaphor if you like is, you know, Jocelyn is an oak tree that's established and you've got another tree that's starting to grow in its shadow it wasn't as much sunlight so it was always going to be weaker unless you took it out and put it into a different environment where it would flourish, it would grow but that's not to say that tree can't be a fantastic tree but the environment is shaping it in a certain way and that tree cannot affect that environment right now that's the analogy that comes to mind for me okay and I would say that that's very relevant to our child teams because whether you're a leader whether you have formal leadership or informal leadership authority or influence you are potentially casting a shadow for giving space but all those like to take that analogy further those big trees need pruning don't they and whether you could hollard it that was cool but I think if you're aware of it you would try to either do that pruning yourself or maybe you'd be pruning the team to allow others to flourish as a leader you said the question was originally do we think people always fill that gap of being in charge well I think the question was something like is it normal is it natural or something like that it says people like to be in charge what is it that draws people to want to take control and be in charge I think we've covered that but the other part of that was it's something that Scrum Masters have to deal with so how do you deal with it from a needs perspective what is it that being in charge gives them if we can understand the drivers and what they're able to achieve from that and then maybe we can help them find different ways of achieving that that's more supportive that might not get in the way of a team growing and the organisational downsides to that break there's nothing to stop you coaching people outside of the work environment that's just being a good oh there was Michelle Sliger now I'm pretty sure she created a website for project managers who had seen the light I can't remember the phrase she used but it was I used to be a command and control manager suddenly a light bulb went off for me and this was my light bulb moment and I changed how I worked and I started being a server leader and so she gathered people's stories curated them onto this website it was I quite enjoyed reading these and I think that would be a good place to look at the common patterns that help people think you know what I can see now how I can still be fulfilled I can still add value by being a different type of leader good stuff that was for Graham the good questions Graham the Mahon thank you Graham well patients get their questions they seem to it's a pleasant change from London isn't it we might try and do another one we might go up north maybe we will go up north one day alright it's late it's time to go cheers