 Good afternoon. Thanks for joining us for the panel on renewing hope for our pandemials. My name is Shalila Madhura. I'm the political reporter for Triple J's hack program, and I'll be sharing this afternoon's session. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land that I'm coming to you from, which is Ngunnawal country, and pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging. And I extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are joining us here today. Just a few housekeeping matters before we kick off. This is an interactive session, so we'd love to get your questions and we'll try and get through as many of them as we can. Please ask a question in a Q&A box and also make sure to raise your hand icon. If your question is selected, I'll call on you by name. Please ensure your camera and microphone are on and I will be able to and then you'll be able to be visible on the screen so you can ask your question live to the audience. If you have any issues with your camera or your microphone, please type not live in front of your question and I'll read the question out for you. I would also like to welcome any fellow journalists who are in the crowd today and remind you that if you'd like to join the discussion on Twitter, you can do using the hashtag ACL forum. So without further ado, I'll ask my panel to introduce themselves. Jason, let's start with you. Hi, Shalala. My name is Jason Traffan. I'm CEO for Hitspace, the National Youth Mental Health Foundation. Thank you, Luke. Let's go to you. Hi, everyone. My name is Luke Reichen. I'm the Executive Officer at the Australian Youth Affairs Coalition. We're the National Voice and Peekbody from more than 4.5 million young people right across Australia. Thanks, Luke. Madamita, let's go to you. My name is Madamita. I'm the President of the A&E Students Association, which is, of course, a peak representative body for over 17,000 students at the A&E here. Thank you. And finally, Fenu. Hi, everyone. My name is Fenu and I'm the CEO of Oak Tree, where Australia's largest youth-run international development agency, and we work with young people to develop their leadership skills across the Asia Pacific. Thanks, panel. We're looking forward to this. So let's get cracking with the questions. The title of this session is Renewing Hope for Pandemians. But before we get to the solution, I'm hoping the panel can please give us a bit of a sitting the scene for us by describing what they see as some of the key issues that young people have faced during the pandemic and how they'll impact young people in the long term. Madhu, I'm hoping you can talk us through how education has been disrupted over the last 18 months. Of course, I think it goes without saying that the in-person experience is quite fundamental to the learning experience. The university is not just about learning, but it's also learning the context of interaction with your peers, with your tutors, and with your colleagues. And I think for a lot of students, particularly the younger ones, there's a lot of formative life experiences that they feel like they've been missing out on. The first time you make a friend in a tutorial or the first time you solve something that you didn't think that you could in a group environment, there's also that sort of absence in what we are calling rural learning or remote learning, which I think is an important distinction from online learning because we haven't really been set up for online learning. We don't have the infrastructure to do that, but we're having to make those changes really, really quickly and have a complete departure from what most people imagine a university experience to be like. Absolutely. And I guess that kind of feeds into my next question, which is about the mental health impacts of the pandemic. Jason, could you talk us through that, please? Yeah, look, sure. I think it's fair to say these words resonate a lot with many people, irrespective of the age, but for the young, certainly isolation, leading to those feelings of loneliness, the uncertainty that's being experienced, the lack of predictability. We've seen a rise in psychological distress, in fact, one in three young people between 12 to 25. Of course, the most frequent reasons for young people coming to headspace will be related to anxiety, depression. They have been disproportionately impacted through work and study, and I guess the pandemic is just the latest challenge that young people are facing. So what we also see, though, is that when young people are reaching out for support and for help, that the actual service system itself is complex prior to COVID and has been added, has been added complexities. So we're really conscious about not having the complexities of the system impacting on the complex needs that young people are presenting for, but certainly increases in reporting of suicide, ideation, self-harm, eating disorders to emergency departments. There's a whole range of mental illness and mental health impacts that we're seeing through COVID now. And as you said, not just young people there, but across the demographics. Thank you for that, Jason. Luke, we know one of the factors involved in mental health is economic instability. Could you talk us through what you think some of the economic impacts have been for young people? Yeah, thanks, Laila. I think it's important to acknowledge right off the bat that young people are generally left with higher unemployment than older people both across the world, but specifically here in Australia. There are really two categories through which we're looking at the economic impacts for young people. The first is that immediate impact of lockdowns and closure of essential services, which predominantly employed young people, which meant that they really felt the impact of those lockdowns, that reduction in work. And it's really important that policymakers keep that in mind when designing policies, especially at the moment. The second impact is the long-term impact, which is sometimes referred to as that economic scarring. And there's the range of evidence from previous recessions that young people generally experience a lifetime impact from graduating in a recession or starting their workplace in a recession. Young people generally will experience worse employment prospects for the rest of their lives. And those who do find work will generally experience less job security, fewer hours and generally lower wages, sometimes right into retirement. So we need to consider not just the immediate economic impacts now, but begin thinking about those long-term impacts and how you mitigate those and support young people. But we've seen that young people have been increasingly getting blamed for aspects of this pandemic, whether it's going out too much, not being vaccinated at rates high enough, whether they're still in work. That means that they can't work from home and therefore getting a bit of blame for spreading COVID through different states and territories. Why do you think young people are copying so much of the blame here? Yeah, that's the million dollar question, Shalilah. And I think as far as I can see, that blame actually comes from a fundamental disconnect between what young people are actually experiencing and what decision makers and the government actually believed at young people are experiencing. So throughout the last 18 months, as we have already heard from Jason, Luke and Madhu, it has been a really tricky time for young people with their mental health, economic disempowerment and a lack of educational opportunities and just general future hope. But I think isolated instances of illegal gatherings are used to really label an entire generation quite against what the actual reality of the situation is. And we've seen young people turn up to vaccinations at an extraordinary rate. For example, in Victoria, once we were eligible for the vaccine, the government website actually crashed from demand. So young people are showing up and these are the stories that I think need to be highlighted. Absolutely. And we're seeing them get AstraZeneca even when other types of vaccines weren't available. Luke, I want to go to you. The question of hope is a really big one. Why is the concept of hope so important when dealing with mental health concerns in young people? Yeah, thanks, Lata. I think it makes sense in terms of generally young people are at the formative period in their life. And the pandemic, as Denner has mentioned, has really impacted those formative years. And so young people need something to look forward to, particularly during a lockdown, particularly during a time when employment has just been so difficult. And as Madhu mentioned, when study has just been so difficult. So I think people need to be able to see a way out of this pandemic and they need to see an option to get their lives back on track. And I know that personally for me and for those that I know and the young people that we work with, that's the thing they're telling us will really make a difference and make sure they can have better mental health going forward. And for us, that looks like better access to vaccines. It looks like real employment prospects and it looks like access to services like Headspace. So young people can actually get the help they need when they need it. Jason, that's a great segue to you as someone who deals in mental health, you know, exclusively here. Why is hope such an important concept for young people? Yeah, look, there's very, very good evidence around that, you know, hope is widely thought to be effective in positive psychological change. So what that means is that if you have hope, and that you do have a good connection and a good experience in seeking help, so there's been no shortage of promotion about the topic of mental health. There's many support services out there for young people, but we know that having hope is such an important motivating factor. So when they have that belief that they can step forward to seek some supports, whether that be through family, friends or indeed through other services like Headspace or Beyond Blue, that when they do that they have that have a positive experience. It's not just always about seeking supports and getting them. It's actually about having a positive experience and it can actually reduce the levels of psychological distress. We've had numerous studies which actually have shown that. So I'm also conscious too about the way in which we portray the word hope in the context that the reality for many is that it's not good at the moment, but by offering that I guess that engagement in conversation, that productive conversation about the future, that we can get through this, that with the right supports in place, that young people in this country can move forward. That gives us hope, but that hope has to translate into meaningful backup supports for them in order to do so. There's no better no better thing now for young people to feel like they're connected, that they're socially engaged. As a result, their mental health and well-being can only lift as a matter of that, but we also have to recognise at the same time that the reality is that it's really tough right now. To the rest of the panel then, why do you think hope is so hard to grasp right now, across the board and the demographics that we're seeing, but particularly for young people? I think that futures are built together and with community and with other people and when the pandemic obviously enforces disconnection and disengagement, that's really hard to find, especially in isolation. But in the same breath, I think we've seen some really fantastic understandings of mutual aid and what community support looks like. Even in a Canberra context, we've seen people deliver food to others. We've seen people offer to personally engage in services for those that are vulnerable. Where we see gaps in community service provision or where we see gaps in government service provision, we see individuals of the community really taking up those responsibilities. I think that's been really encouraging and that does give a little bit of hope. I might jump in there and also say that there's only so much that young people can be expected to blindly hope for. I think for the people that I at least have surrounded in my life and I live on site at a university campus. I'm very much surrounded by young people quite often and there is an astounding amount of hope for the future. Hope that their careers will get back on track after this pandemic is under control and hope that they'll be able to see their family and friends again that are interstate and overseas. But ultimately, if decision makers and systems aren't meeting us halfway, it is really tricky to keep up that hope. When we hear politicians saying that we need to keep a positive attitude about climate change instead of actually doing the policy changes that will actually give us hope for our future. And when we hear leaders not have a straight plan of getting out of this pandemic and restoring our jobs and careers, it's really hard to keep that blind faith. So there's only so much that young people can be expected to hope for without those in power and those in decision making spaces meeting us halfway. Jason, look, did you have anything to add in terms of why you think hope is hard to clean to at the moment? I think that it was honestly nailed it. It is a really difficult time. And as Madhu said, young people generally are hopeful and they're doing their absolute best, but then is right. We need some solid outcomes to actually have that hope. We need a foundation. All right. Well, I guess that takes us to a big question, which I'm going to throw open to all of you on the panel. So feel free to jump in. It is a conversation, really, as well as a panel. But what do you think governments should be doing? Government, state and federal should be doing to help young people who are really struggling at the moment? I think, first of all, if I could speak to the issue of mental health, I think putting the systems and structures in place to really support young people through this really difficult time for them is the number one concern. I know, again, from living on a university campus, that a lot of the peers that I'm surrounded with are finding it really difficult, even when they do get the courage to reach out for help, to find that help. It's months and months of waiting, if not giving up after that. And so those systems, first of all, need to be put in place. But in a broader context, I think having young people in decision making spaces is no longer a nice tokenistic thing to have, but really necessary. We're the ones who have the biggest stake in what the future holds. And I think what we're seeing is a real lack of urgency from governments on the state and federal level to account for what we need going into the future. And I can jump in there and follow that. I think for most young people now, that point is completely right there. Young people want to be included in decision making. And particularly at a time, as we've all mentioned, that young people are predominantly affected or disproportionately affected. It's more important than ever that young people are actually included in those decisions. Really practically what that looks like is designing policies with young people. And you can do that by employing young people in policy development positions. You can do that through processes of co-design. You can do that through having young people leading policy and actually writing the policy that affects them. We would do that in any other area or for any other community. And young people, just by virtue of their age, are not in leadership positions in our federal parliament. They are not in leadership positions in the public service. And so those people have to make the effort and do the work to include young people in their work so that they can be included in decision making. It's a really important step. As Luke and Dennis said, informative policy making is good policy making. And if you're sitting in a group of people and making decisions or representations about any demographic, that's not at that table that I feel like you should rethink the validity of the conclusions that you're reaching. And there's a lot of conversation I think about essential services. And as we were talking about earlier about the issue of hope, I see for a lot of young people right now the issue is one of survival and the issue is one of sort of a buy-in into the processes that are in place and reframing what sort of services do young people rely on? And is that a handout or is that something that's essential for progressing? Societies get back what they invest into their communities and what they invest into their people. If you invest in making sure that young people and youth are supported, they will be able to give back to society and really flourish in that space. I think it's really important for government to talk with young people, not to talk at them, that it's not okay to say, oh well there's plenty others worse off than you. You're so lucky what a great country we live in and we do. But they need to be listened to, to be understood, not to be judged, not to be told. I'm sure we need direction. Absolutely, we need the pathway out of the pandemic and clearly there's movement there. But like other panelists have said, it is about inclusivity. We are such a diverse country and young people themselves are not a homogenous group. So we do need to have voices of young people, but not just a meeting or a workshop, it needs to be an ongoing engagement process. I know myself just leading the organisation of Headspace that if every decision was up to me to think of what was the best idea, I know I'd get it dramatically wrong. But what keeps us in leadership roles honest and what keeps us, I guess, contemporary in what we do, it's because we're heavily informed by an ongoing process of engagement and listening to young people, because things can move really quickly. And I have no doubt that our thoughts of 2019 are very different to how we were looking forward to 2022. So that ongoing engagement, whether that be for policy or whether that be for more of an immediate response, it's so important. And that's not a lot of money. Often we might say we need extollers for this or that, but actually engagement to understand what's going on in the mindsets of young people, school-aged young people, young people coming into university to TAFE to other vocational settings. And of course, what's it like now in the work environment for young people? And that word hope before and that optimistic future that everyone yearns for, that's what we've obviously got to try and set the time for coming out of this pandemic. A bit of a curly one here. What do you think society could be doing differently to help young people? Put you all on the spot now. I can probably jump in with one of the things that I then has already spoken to, but the frustration of young people that I've spoken to lately has been that sort of blame, particularly with the high transmission among young people in Australia. But the reality is, is young people have been in those frontline jobs and essential services. They've been metting the supermarkets, the cafes, they've been ensuring that our supply lines are still open. And so I think there needs to be some acknowledgement of that work that young people have done and the risk that they've experienced over the last two years now. I also think it's really important that in doing so, we sort of acknowledge the input they've had and maybe back off of it and recognize that young people have had a really rough go and start thinking about how we can actually support them. Yeah, off the back of that, if I could also just add, I think there has been this idea that young people are not actually grateful for all the public health measures and the protections that we've been afforded. And that is just not the case. We are so grateful for living in Australia and the protection of our health. We just think that there are ways in which we can make this experience better going forward. So just an understanding of it, you know, not us being spoilt brats who are who are like not understanding the reality of the situation. We understand the reality of the situation very well and just believe there are better ways that we can do this. I always like to try and end the panel part of the discussion with a bit of a positive note. So I want to go through some of the panel members and ask you what gives you hope. Luke, let's start with you. Are you seeing more innovation in terms of how young people are getting and keeping jobs? Yeah, I think so, Shalila. And I think young people have generally stepped up right across the board during the pandemic, again, in those frontline jobs. But we've also seen increased entrepreneurship, which has been a necessity during a time when casual jobs and in-person jobs haven't always been possible. My favorite example is a startup called Alex Makes Meals, which is a young man who has been essentially providing meals. And I know some of the panelists smiling because they will be seeing this. But essentially 20 years old, started an organization which is now making 3,000 meals a week, which is absolutely incredible. A bit across the board during the pandemic, we've worked with young people who have increasingly started organizations, starting helping their peers, but also started helping in that community. And that's been incredible. And in doing so, they've created employment opportunities that weren't there before the pandemic. So I've been really, really hard on to see that. Absolutely. Then while young people have been blamed a lot in the pandemic, which we spoke about earlier, we're also seeing them step up in a way that we haven't before. How are young people advocating on their own behalf and for their own interests? Yeah, great question, Shalila. And this is definitely what gives me hope to see young people building movements to support each other, but also support their broader communities. I interviewed someone the other day who had parents who were from a different cultural background and were hesitant to take the vaccine, but they took it on themselves to educate them through culturally appropriate methods. Young people are stepping up in ways to not only support themselves, but their older loved ones as well. And Luke and I with a YAC and Oak Tree recently held a discussion with former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, which brought together hundreds of young people that really spoke about what gives them hope for the future. And it is really including us in those decision making spaces and us playing a really active role in this recovery. Absolutely. Mademita, what are we seeing? What are we seeing now more? Let me start that again. What we're seeing now more and more is that young people are choosing to reskill, whether it's through government programs in tastes or technical colleges or by enrolling in university. Surely a more skilled workforce is a good thing. I think a more educated workforce is always an excellent thing. I think on the same flip side of saying remote learning has been difficult for a lot of students. It has also been quite more accessible and quite passionate about the average working student and the average student with disabilities. There are a lot of students who are like that and they have to juggle work with university anyway. And what online learning has done is given them much more opportunities and much more flexibility and the opportunity to demonstrate the same aptitude as all other students, but something that just really supports the average student in achieving their goals. And I really hope it's something that we will retain going to the future, that flexibility in what an effective curriculum look like and what a universal design for learning can look like in terms of allowing everybody to access education. Thank you. And Jason, finally, does the increased conversation around mental health mean we're seeing less stigmatization and more focus on achieving the right kinds of support? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, firstly, stigma often comes from a lack of understanding or perhaps fear. So inaccurate or misleading representations of mental illness do contribute to both of those factors. So importantly for this discussion, though, that stigma reduces hope. So I guess we're definitely seeing more conversations around mental health across the country is no doubt, but actually particularly among young people. And we know that from several large studies that stigma is reducing, particularly that for young people who are more open to talk about their issues with friends. What that leads to, of course, is to increased help seeking. And as I said earlier, that increased help seeking needs to be matched by a positive experience so that they can navigate their way through those difficult times and get through them with some really great evidence based interventions that can support them. Thanks so much, panel. This does bring us up to time. So thank you very much for your thoughts. Thank you, everyone, for your questions as well. And I hope you can join me in thanking our panel, Thenu Harath, Jason Strath-Awen, Madhu Jannagaraja and Luke Reichen. Thanks so much, everyone, really, really great discussion today and lots to think about going forward. Thank you.