 All right. Hey, what's up guys drew here that anxiety guy com live with my good friend Billy cross We're buffering because our friend We're recording on we're recording on my computer because Drew's having to change a scenery because we're doing this live tonight We're doing this live for a change. We thought Yeah, yeah, so we're just gonna hang for a second wait for people to join but show up People usually think we're live anyway, like we do the watch party so they think we're live Yeah, yeah, we thought we'd log up my Christmas tree lights on in the background there very festive Where's your Santa hat? You should be wearing your your plush your plush Santa hat You can't see because the cameras couldn't off but the Santa hats at the top of the tree because I haven't got Nice nice, you know well that hat is plush because it said so it was very plush They couldn't fit very on it, but he's I can't I can't see who's in with us There's a showing you who is Let me just I'm not seeing any any comments around you in type of comment, and I'll tell you if I see it just even pops up like just testing Yeah, yeah, yeah So I see there you are there you are. Yeah, yeah testing Okay, so I can see you you can see me. We can't see anybody the little I thing is showing me like six people But for some reason I can't see This is my computer for you, that's what happens British technology Because we usually pause don't we at the start of the video that we thought will We'll just hang for a second and it's coming back to bite us Technologies kill on us anyway. I guess I should put my glasses on so I can see Do you think we should maybe Come clean at this point Ah We're jokers It's just a prank. It's just a prank Guys don't laugh at our expense all the time. So we figured This was my idea So what are we talking about today, dude, we're gonna talk about holiday shopping. Yeah, yeah Yeah, because it's crazy busy out there in the minute. Yeah, and I think this yeah, especially so shopping in general There's something that people struggle with a lot. You know going to the supermarket. I am so tired of talking about supermarket I am never gonna say the word supermarket. We're done with all this. I'm done talking about supermarket We can always talk about the post box if you want to want to go. Yeah, we got a shit shift a little bit Anyway, people struggle going to those places that you know going to the shops the supermarket the shopping malls this time of year Christmas time get probably gets 10 times worse because it's just so crowded Right. I mean it's Saturday Saturday morning here in New York as we're recording I mean to go to the mall, which is like I think it's about five miles from my house That place will be just getting there driving there. You'd be stuck in traffic to get to it Oops, you just froze on me, dude You're dead. I'm mine. Oh Yeah, so I didn't know yet. Now you're just carrying will carry him just carry on that's fine Edit what you gotta edit I guess. Yeah, we'll win you life live Yeah, this is the way it goes So I think like to go to the shopping mall. That's like I said about five six miles from my house Normally like if on a Thursday night, it would take you, you know, 10 minutes to get there today It would get it would take probably 45 minutes to drive into that mall Just sitting in traffic. Yeah the traffic getting in you're stuck at red lights You're in traffic jams, and then you get into this crazy incredibly crowded shop So I'm sure it makes it 10 times worse, but you did some shopping. Let's talk about it. I did. I did It's an experience. Yeah, it's a bit twice and I'm outstanding by the way. Thank you. Thank you very much The last time we recorded you said I said do it again. You're like, oh, I'm gonna do it You freaking did it. I did do it. It was awesome. Yeah, it was mad Like I didn't feel any different the second time. It was just as difficult I was feeling in fact, I would say the The sensations were even more freaking difficult to handle But it was just that I said in the video like I just weren't reacting Because this the second time that I went I went straight to the far end of the store and just Like did what I needed to do going down the aisles that I didn't go down last time Right and the scent like I was getting this overwhelming Feeling just need to get out. I need to get out like how how am I gonna if I make that decision to get out I know that my legs are gonna just go to mush And it's gonna be so crazy intense So I just thought well instead of doing that then instead of making that decision that's gonna make me feel like that Let's just stand here. Yeah, I'm already standing here. I haven't gone to mush. So let's just see what happens if I don't react That was it and you didn't but so were those the same feelings so the week before you did the same trip to the same shops Yeah, yeah, it's exactly the same same exact feelings, right? And the first trip, you know, you kind of you know, he went into paid for the the fuel and you mentioned on the video So if you guys haven't watched those videos, you gotta watch it because it's really good But he did the check out and everything. So what's the difference same feelings? What was the difference? That's a good question. Was it was was it in how you reacted to them? Yeah, it was just I was determined to not not give it The the power this time. I think that was the difference. I was prepared to just go through it whatever Like an as soon as I made the decision that I'm prepared. I'm not running out of here Like it did it did become easier after that Yeah, that's awesome. That's exactly what's supposed to happen. Yeah, yeah It was just that battle like it was all in my head like the physical sensations were just the same as last time It was no worse. It was just that my reaction to it was like, I don't give a shit what happens So I think like, you know the topic today is shopping and especially holiday shopping That what you just said is huge like what's the what's the difference? Whether there's five people in the shop with you or 500 people in the shop with you Yeah, yeah, so what what is the problem? So you say like the sensations were no worse or yeah, it was the same better. They were the same, right? So But incidentally it's like the same sensations that I feel at home now anyway Like I've had a shitty week this week, which we'll get into in a bit. It's the same It's the same. So what difference it made whether I run out of a shop I run into the shop. I'm standing at the checkout. It's all the same in Yeah, yeah, I know I get it and it's such a big thing because I think we're talking about shopping And now specifically holiday shopping people have this feeling like well holiday shopping is going to be much harder much worse That's not real like in a way just because there are more people in the shop or more people in the mall Or it's you have to sit traffic to get there. You're still solving the same problem. It doesn't matter Here's here's how you should think about it like yes, there's more people in the shop But guess what there's more people that suffer with anxiety in the shop at the damn same time as you that's probably true You know what in a way you could flip that you could flip it too It's like there's more people with anxiety issues in the shop with you Yeah, but there's also more people that you could just you can look to Complete strangers as like what is that guy doing? He's just like he's just pushing his his card and He's not doing anything like let me just act like that guy's active So those people could be models in a way you could model their behavior I'll just go do what that guy's doing. Even though I want to leg it out of here I'm going to just do what that guy's doing You know you can pretty much guarantee that there's some ones that well not guarantee maybe but there might be somebody else somewhere looking at you thinking How are they doing that right? I'm going to model myself on them who looks calm and it's quite possible It's quite possible because in the second the second video the second trip that you did Like the successful one or whatever you called it the the sequel that was great Like if you looked at those two videos, you didn't really look much different at all. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you stood there or you stood there. Um, at one point you did push the cart backward like a couple of feet I did Was walking backwards I saw that I'm like, this is so fine. Notice that it's such a okay, but um So like, you know, you didn't look any different So I think it's super important. You know to kind of bring you back to the topic I know if you struggle with shopping and going into the shops and stuff Like you're solving the same exact problem Is this the problem we talked about last time being on airplane or traveling or the problem we talked about in the car The problem we talked about the rest of the same same problem the same problem But the holidays don't make it you think it makes it worse. There are more people So it would be harder for me to do this But I think in the end Like I think the sensations are always the same It's just it's in your head. You think like, oh, this is going to be worse because it's more people I get more overwhelmed. I get more afraid your reaction is probably more intense But with sensations like your body can only do what it can do Yeah, yeah, it's because you're focusing on it more in there. That's the right or you're anticipating it or you're saying It's going to be harder And I think what's harder then is your reaction to it. Do you react more strongly to it? Yeah, yeah Your legs are either working or not working. They can't be any more wobbly like they're either wobbly or not Would you agree with that? I mean, yeah in all the years that I've Attempted to do anything. They've never given out on me. Yeah as weak as they felt they still get me wherever I need to go I think and the point too. I mean, that's true. They've never actually given that So we talked about that all the time, but the sensation itself So let's relate this to the fact that holiday shopping would be harder because the crowds are bigger Yeah, when your legs feel weak, which I know is like that's a common thing for you that you struggle with Yeah, it's a binary thing. You either feel that or you don't feel that it's not like they felt much weaker this time It's always the same week. Yeah Yeah, so so somehow but in our heads we think well kids since the crowds are bigger My legs will be weaker or my stomach will be more upset or my Like no, you're just gonna have that same set of symptoms are identical every single situation you're in There's no severity. The severity is how you react to it So who cares how many people are in the mall? It's the same as going on a Tuesday night in july Perhaps the only difference might be that you have to spend a bit longer in the queue Like yes, that's true. That's also true. So then what what difference does time make if you're in there like it's Same it's exactly the time doesn't make any difference because so there are more people So you're right. It'll be slower to get to the store. It'll be slower to check out But if you care about the time it's because you still think well, the magic is when I get to leave I have to get out and that's that's not that's wrong So you're actually better served having to wait in that checkout line Yeah, yeah And and deal with it Then you are like where oh, I did it and it wasn't it wasn't crowded. I was able to get out fast. So Thank god like no that's I did I did do that on the video. I was like saying to my dad Let's just let's just get in the queue so we can get out of here Yeah, so I was still thinking about it because I was still worried about it like it was yeah It was still there, but I but I still did it that was nothing But I think that's that's a good point So like you did it and your sequel was so much more of a successful and productive trip But and so you were still thinking let's just get in the queue so we can get out of here I mean so there's some elements of like can we just get the hell out of here like everybody? Nobody wants to wait in line But the other thing is so maybe you were still thinking like I want it to be over but that was one trip Like you had a kind of a wobbly trip the week before you this was the second one Like it and I people make that mistake too like well, I did my one trip to them all so I must be okay now I'm good. Yeah. Yeah, you kind of not you gotta do it again again Yeah, so I suppose that even the even the fact that I was prepared to go and line up Like if I'd have bailed out of there, it still would have been a successful attempt in a way wouldn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just stepping it up every time that I do something. That's the that's the key Or maybe just doing at least at least doing the same thing Again and again Yeah, but every time you do it like I think you do Let me think about this So like you said you stood in the checkout line you engaged I mean that that you had a conversation but you intentionally did things that I well I mean you got to pay you got to do all the stuff that you do Check out line, but but it seemed like when you're talking about it afterwards that you were intentionally Like trying to make sure you were like I'm go through the routine of checking out as opposed. I just have now Yeah, it's been so long since I've gone through a checkout process But but every time you do those trips like if you just kept going back to that shop You would probably find I know you would because I know you a long time You would find a reason to stay in there longer and longer and longer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah And then you you know when you get to the point we're just like wandering aimlessly through the store just to stay in it And it's like, I guess I'm good with this now. That's when you know that Yeah, but uh that that thing where we ascribe like it's going to be crowded. So this is going to be worse That's just a logical Failing it away. Yeah So How do we you know, so what are you supposed to do? Like it always comes back to how do I how do I deal with you know, shop holiday shopping? What do you do? Just do it It's like again, same answer. Okay video's done Yes, like video is done Like what do you do you work at it when you don't want to go Christmas shopping or whatever the holidays shopping during the holidays Then then you go shopping during the holidays and honestly the other thing is, you know, the holidays happen once a year You know if you're so inclined to you celebrate these holidays and you're in that like we are Then you know between Thanksgiving and Christmas or in the US late November and you know just then Christmas That's that season the the busy shopping season where a lot of people It's like you've said in in past videos like don't just expect so we've not gone shopping for 11 months And then you can just go and do holiday shop like yeah Do do some shopping in freaking march So I know we're recording in December So of course people are in the thick of it and you haven't been able to go out shopping for 11 months Right. How do you do it now? Well, you just kind of do it now. You do the best you can Yeah, come january get out there start doing By the time next holidays roll around you wouldn't you won't watch that need this video anymore So it's just like everything else like the thing you're most afraid to do start doing it Build that behavior build that skill little by little slowly by slowly And you know over the course of three or four months you can completely smash the fear of being out shopping I believe I believe that I mean as opposed well, maybe it would be different if you decide you're gonna go shopping in Paris We have to fly there and then shop That might be different one day one day. But what's the difference? You know at some point I literally I drew I do believe that that particular fear I can't go in into the Walmart or the asda or wherever you go Like if you worked at it within a couple of months you would you could be fine with that Like the deepest part of the biggest asda you have would be like nothing What is hell on earth? I believe it was That's their marketing slogan But you know I mean we deal with it here the same thing we have this giant wall here in the u.s. Walmart Walmart and stores that are like they need their own zip codes. There's enormous Yeah, yeah, and so people you know they can well I can go in but I can't go all the way to the back of the store If you work at it in a couple of months, you'd be like camping back there Like I've been there so I know and you've obviously been there, but I've been there. I've done it been to the back of the store. Yeah so Maybe let's talk about like the mechanics of it. So okay now you're having a hard time getting in the shops whether or not it's I know you've been through this. I know you've done this like and I've done Whether it's july or the middle of december So if there's nobody in the shop where there's stores packed with people the same thing So I can relate my experience. There was Down the way for me if you're from the u.s. You know cvs You guys don't have cvs in England. It's a it's a pharmacy drugstore one of those You know, so you can go get your prescriptions filled and also buy can of motor oil like they Yeah, it's one of those places So it's not a big job. Did none of them are big. They're all Smaller shops. You can walk from one end to the other in a minute and a half. It's crazy So there's one down the road for me. I'm not joking a mile away. Maybe a mile and a quarter. Maybe probably a mile And I remember I had to use that as my practice point So I I think I I remember actually talking to you about this because I made a video about it years ago And one day I'll find all these and maybe put them up. Yeah. Yeah, but I I was home Yeah, I was in that worst time the worst possible time like when you and I first met and my daughter was sick She was young and she had an ear infection And you know, her she needed the her medication. She needed her medicine. Like what am I gonna do? So I was home Like my mother was here because my mother lives upstairs from us So she could hang out with with my daughter, which was fine But then somebody had to go pick up the medication. Yeah, and and I remember so clearly thinking like uh-oh, right Like, okay, I'm gonna have to go and do that. Yeah. And but what am I supposed to do? Like I'm her dad. I'm not gonna say well, how to wait till you're wrong. So I'm like, I can't go like No way was I doing that? So I remember getting in the car and going into that cvs and like you have to go all the way to the back This way from this to get that I got the stuff and I remember being in there and saying, okay I'm just gonna walk up and then the aisles and I literally was looking at my watch like I'm just just for two minutes Oh, and I just did that and I remember how hard it was But then I went and I paid and I and I bought a couple little things just to do it and getting in the car and literally like Oh And then I remember I was shaking and And so what I went up doing is I said, okay This is what I'm gonna do now and I would go maybe not every day because I had other things I was working out at the same time But I would go into that store and I would say like all right. I'm gonna go and buy razors I'm gonna buy toothpaste like we were stupid. You run out of toothpaste for a while. You run out of razors I well, I hadn't I have now But I would like think of something to buy or something or whatever. I'll buy something at the store Or are you going to not buy anything? I remember what's that about a little candle, you know, just whatever just something Just to do it and I remember I just did it three four times a week I would go in there and just sort of slowly wander through the place and it became easier and easier to just Then finally when we get to the point Please I'm not gonna go there anymore. It's just stupid and then I started going and honestly It would became super easy then I would like all right Well another quarter mile down the road or half mile down the road was the big supermarket and I started going in there to Yeah, yeah, I remember some of those videos. Yeah, you just just I remember you just parking up and just having a walk around like outside Yes, the place. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so and that's what I did So how would you do it? You build it little by little? Little by little little by little and then A couple months later it was fine. I was those in the supermarket. It was and I didn't bother me anymore So as long as they were close those stores are close to home. That's another story I remember once I got because I was still working when my Like at the heat of mice the height of my panic and that and I I got a job It was like as a warehouse stores person and the the manager of the place Wanted me to go and buy a mop and a bucket from asda So he sent me out like I went in the van and I was freaking out about it But I went in I went in and did it But it was like the first time I'd been in there in years and I was right Jesus christ man That was so difficult. But what could I do go back to my new boss and say I I just can't do it Right. Anyway, is there anywhere else you could send me someplace else must have a mop and a bucket and and believe me I can relate to those times. I remember also posting a video one night with my two girls They were little taking them christmas shopping to buy gifts for their mom And thinking and thinking like where can I take them? That's I can get to Yes, like how about it, you know, maybe like a cheeseburger from mcdonald. We can just try for Just I can I remember those days and thinking like So I know that people can relate to exactly what you just said Like I just you know, you find ways to work around it or you get into those patterns It's like well, I could go to this shop. Yep. I can go to these two shops. Yeah, I'm good Yeah, so you just how do I is you just work on it all the time if you just keep doing it again and again But you don't go from I haven't been to walmart in two years To like i'm going to go camp in the furthest section of the 700 000 people You don't do that in one day and you don't run through Right and you don't go running through walmart, you know for like a frantic 18 minutes leave there and say I did it Like I don't have to go there again for three months. You didn't solve anything doing that So you just you just have to make it a priority to make it a skill like practicing an instrument or a language It's the same answer every freaking time God, I mean you picked it up yet How many picked it up yet? No, you don't it takes us a long time to pick it up. Yeah, yeah, tell me about it Yeah, yeah Let's talk for two seconds because I started to get a little more focused on like So how do I okay you go to the store every day in your practice But when you're in the shop and you start to feel that way Like what did you actually do? You made a statement that was brilliant when you got back in the car and you said I can't control the thoughts But I can control how I act when I think that So So i'm going to ask you the same question that I get asked all the time What what does that look like like what were you actually it was the mechanism that you used To say to not react to that I think it was just noticing that I was having those thoughts that was the thing like whereas usually it's all one Like the thoughts and the actions are so closely linked usually like you get the flashing thought and then you act instantly Yeah, but because the thoughts already happened when I went in there I sort of recognized that I was just having them Okay, and I just I was just noticing them. That was the difference So noticing the thoughts. Yeah. Yeah, I was like I wasn't arguing with the thoughts I wasn't trying to stop the thoughts. I was just like, okay, I see that's I see what's happening But I'm not going to do anything about it. Let's just See what happens So what you're essentially doing I think if I'm describing it well is you're actually breaking the connection between the thought and the behavior Yeah, yeah, definitely because it would be one like you have that like I got to get out of here and boom You start to leg it out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's yeah Because people often say like what comes first the thoughts or the feelings and stuff like that And for me like I know I now know that it's the always the thoughts It's always the thoughts. It's always the thoughts. Yeah, I think that there's a real chance that for everybody It's always the thoughts. Yeah, a lot of people will say no It's the feelings I would I would always say no was the feelings for me You know the sensations. Yeah in retrospect. I think it's probably always the thoughts. Yeah And like, you know, I've done those meditation videos with susan and mindfulness She talks about all the time the thoughts and then I did the one with monique Which you know that one But and she said the same thing you have a thought then you have a feeling and it manifests itself And you know what the more you've got it probably and that's why we call it cognitive behavior therapy Yeah, yeah, exactly So but what you did is you let the thoughts be and you decouple them from the behavior Even though they used to come like boom almost instantly you couldn't tell apart. Yeah Yeah So a mechanism that I've started to tell people to use and I will fully credit susan for for kind of bringing this into focus on the meditation stuff is That like I it's kind of a forced that thing that I've been telling people and maybe it's useful I don't know. I love the 3d when you're vaping to the camp. That's awesome. I did that on purpose then I want to do this like But I've been telling people to do is it's like four steps. So number one slow down Like because we want to speed up and you start running around and rushing everything you're doing Is you get in that state? So slow down number two is find where the tension is in your body and let it go So I think inville you in the group said rag doll So slow down rag doll it like as relaxed as your body can get which is the opposite of what you want to do And then to me it's always I've been using just get your focus So instead of your focus being on your thoughts put your focus in another place and that can be your breath So like that thing where you bring your focus back to The tip of your nose where you're not because it stops the panic But just because it gives you something else to look at and I then the fourth is then you let the thoughts scream at you Like you did yeah, yeah either. Yeah, fine. Yeah, let me all you want And so I kind of think of it as oh if I visualize it physically It's like so I'm standing in the in the supermarket in this frozen food section at walmart And I feel this thing where I want to run and I'm terrified and I'm dizzy and all these things And I think well imagine if those thoughts are here and they're screaming in your face And I'm going to look at them and I'm literally just going to turn my head away like screaming my ear all you want I'm just getting this like right here and What I have found is people that are seem to be using those steps are giving me good feedback on that that like oh Yeah, the minute I do that I almost feel an instant not relief. It doesn't go away But an instant sense of control again. Yeah. Yeah So I don't know if that helps at all or if that's even close to what you're doing, but you know, yeah Yeah, I think I just I'm not thinking too like it's weird. I'm not thinking too much about what I'm doing I'm just noticing. I'm just right. I'm just recognizing the signs of the stuff Yes, but because I'm doing it more now because I'm going out more and it becomes automatic Yeah, yeah, I'm getting back into the swing of like pushing myself. Yeah And do you find that there's a little bit of a sense of and like I said the feedback I'm getting is not Really almost relief but more control like yeah, yeah, they do those steps relax and just Back to the you know turn their back on the thoughts a little bit. Yeah, you almost feel that like all right I'm you know, I'm good. This is I'm in control a little bit here Yeah, the thing with me is that it just comes in waves like I'll go I'll do that I'll feel like I'm in control of it for a second and then I'll take it. Yeah Take a few more steps and then it's like gosh like there's another thought. Yeah, we're going again But that's a really good point because you have to keep doing that again and again. Yeah. Yeah So if you use that thing, right, it's not just one thing Whatever my four steps in there fast boom, boom, boom, boom, you do them Yeah, yeah, but if you do that you have to keep doing it again and again and again because that That anxiety those thoughts are just going to keep screaming yell yell yell yell yell And so you turn your head and then oh you look again You got to turn your head again then again you have to keep turning away from them And that's pretty much like yes, so the waves totally normal But I think as you go on they'll be Less there'll be more space between the waves and less waves. Yeah. Yeah So you might have to do it once or twice then maybe only once then then you want to do it You're just regular in normal and asda and hell on earth. So Imagine so, I mean, I don't know I'm not sure if we've given people what they are looking for here But that's how how do I overcome holiday shopping go holiday shopping shop when it's not the holidays all year round So that when holidays come along it's it's no big deal and like Understand the techniques of being in an uncomfortable situation and not letting it get away from you Just feel what you got to feel. Yeah And when you did that thing where you went and you said like you can't I think at one point you look in the camera Like I can't go any further into the store than this you were in the deepest part of the shop. Yeah It was pretty funny I I got to the back wall and I was just going to go around the next aisle Like and just like celebrate my little victory and then there was a woman walking towards me and I was like, oh, shit Just turned around and I was Not filming Do not call the authorities nothing to see yeah, no, I don't like you career But I think that thing where you got to the back wall and you're like well, I'm here This is it but there's they'll look to me and maybe I'm just interpreting because of my own thing But like there was almost a sense of that Because I'm gonna use the word centering or grounding there like yep. I'm here. Look. Yeah. It's just That was easier than I thought right So yeah, so instead of going to the back wall and being consumed with whole shit I'm at the back wall. Oh my god. What am I doing here? I can't believe this is horrible. I hate this It was just like oh you got there. You may have those thoughts and feelings and it was like, well, but I'm here There's no buggy man at the back of the store. There's no monster in the back. Yeah, who knew I could have sworn He was there. So Yeah, yeah, and then it was interesting too when you you went down the ways I mean, I'm sure I don't know if you watch your own videos back ever, but you're only 40 times Oh, there you go. Oh, that's right. You're like, just your vein. That was the funniest thing you ever said I like looking at myself as I'm vain When you got back, but it's a good tool when you watch them back to you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah But then you were only it looked on the video like maybe 20 feet from the back of the store and you turned around and you looked and you were like, I can't believe I was there Yeah, which is probably no further than double the size of the room you're in now, right? But Yeah, but but it matters and you were there. Yeah. Yeah, it's mad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So what's next what's gonna happen next Like me Yeah, I've had a shitty week. So like everybody knows I didn't do the live stream Thursday I don't know if you knew I didn't do the live stream And I think you are feeling under the weather. So yeah, yeah So people probably thought it was because it was my birthday and I was going out for dinner and that That's it. Oh, you were supposed to go out for your birthday. Yeah, that got ruined, didn't it? Yeah, I didn't do anything. So I had a crazy mad vertigo spell on Wednesday Like similar to the one that happened a couple of years ago, which kept me in bed for a week after it But I I had it and then Thursday I was up and about like as normal So it's kind of a success because I think this is becoming an issue for me now I think like the vertigo thing. Well, I was saying to you I don't know if I did I think I told you but um I think my very first ever panic attack was maybe a vertigo attack Like because I remember I called my dad because I was stuck on the bathroom floor couldn't move Because everything was spinning. So I think, you know, maybe there's yeah There's an issue there with vertigo for me and it's kind of because people do say like it can trigger Panic attacks and anxiety disorders and that so oh hell yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe You know, we should this is important like you have actual vertigo. I get it every once I get a vertigo attack And so when people talk about dizzy like it's it's important that I say like billy Didn't not go out for his birthday because he was just feeling dizzy Yeah, yeah, like like this is real vertigo with literally the room is spinning. That's not anxiety That's a problem with your inner ear. That's a real physiological thing. Yeah So and yeah vertigo, but it was it's kind of mad because like sitting here now like I'm I've still been feeling like I'm feeling the anxiety dizziness now Yeah, yeah, like and I have been for the last two or three days since it happened But like for an hour I was experiencing vertigo like that was horrible But this is kind like I couldn't notice the difference now. Yeah, I've seen my bedroom spinning So I know I know that what I'm experiencing now is like it's just me Like I'm just feeling anxiety dizziness, which is completely different because nothing's spinning It's just well, sometimes, you know, people get not annoyed, but you know when they were like Well, I couldn't you know, I couldn't do that because I was so dizzy felt like I was going to fall over I was like no Like were you physically unable to get up because you fell over? Well vertigo you physically aren't able to get stuck on your bathroom floor because everything is spinning You cannot stand up physically I was gripping I was gripping onto the side of my bed because I was doing the epply maneuver to myself Like yeah Sort it out and it was I had I'd physically had to grip my bed the tightest that I could because I felt like I was tipping off it Like it was it was crazy But in that situation that felt like and I always say I'd never say what it felt like because that's not real But actually with vertigo when this Stills in your ear or like floating around or whatever that is No, the your eyes are telling you this bed is literally spinning and tipping So it's very different than what you're feeling. Yeah, it's way more intense man way more intense But it's kind of it's given me a I don't know like last last time it happened I was in bed for a week this time I got up the day after and I'm sort of I don't know whether it's because I'm on my own and I have to get up like my daughter can't take herself to school You know, I mean, so I've got to so it's kind of a good thing in a way that I've got to Just face this shit because last week I didn't have vert last week. Sorry when it happened like two years ago I didn't have vertigo for a week. I had vertigo I had a vertigo spell and I was freaked out by it for a week and that's why I didn't move whereas this time I recognized that I had a vertigo spell when I was up up and about the next day like the next day Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were saying actually yeah, you're telling me the next day that you were out, which was great Yeah, you're feeling better. Yeah, so I think It's so driving even imagine That seems crazy crazy to me like That's crazy to me because that vertigo is tough when I get it. It's really hard. I mean for me it goes away Usually in a couple hours. Yeah, but But I also I think the difference is some of the anxiety you could feel after that is because you're worried like Is it gonna happen again? Am I am I dizzy now? What if I move my head again? Yeah And I get that too. Like if you hurt same thing like if you hurt your knee or something You know, you'd be a little bit worried about like getting on the treadmill and running like is this gonna hurt again Like that's kind of normal. That's heavy. I get uh, every once in a while I get ocular migraines So I don't know if anybody's ever had an alphalmic migraine, which is you basically go go kind of blind Literally in a way. Yeah, so, you know, like if you look into the light bulb or the sun Maybe that's spot in your eye Well, alphalmic migraine is that happens and then it doesn't go away. It just gets bigger bigger I have though. So now it's well freaked out, right? Oh, dude. The first thing would ever happen to me Believe me. I was home. Everybody was home. It was a whole like I didn't wind up in the emergency room But I remember, you know, I think it was my wife called the doctor and he was like come in right away And you know, he's like, okay. This is what that was go see your eye doctor Who was lucky? It was good. I got to see him that day and he was like I can't believe you were not in the emergency room Usually the first time you have an alphalmic migraine You wind up in the emergency room because you assume you're having some stroke or something. Yeah. Yeah I remember trying to I was sitting at my computer trying to work and I just yeah Like there was just and I was like, what the fuck the spots the spots they grow and then you get Even when you close your eyes, I get little like fireworks are going off. I can see it still, you know Doesn't matter. Anyway, the point is, you know, I'll get them once in a while And I've always been sensitive to the light anyway, but even now if I have one I'm a little bit on guard for it happening again Yeah, yeah for a day or two Super likely. I mean, I'm sure I have my sunglasses on when I go outside. So yeah Feeling I think a bit on edge after vertigo probably pretty normal Yeah, yeah, it's been a weird couple of days, man It's been a couple of days But then I don't know see the thing that I'm questioning now is like give the vertigo thing come on because I've got some Kind of virus or is it an inner ear thing? I was diagnosed with uh, bppv once like Yeah, yeah, peroximal positional vertigo That's a thing Or is it because I've been doing more like with the live streams and doing videos and going out more like is it a stress response? So that's something that I I'm going to see the doctor on Tuesday to try and yeah And I see if there's some tests or whatever they can do to try and because I've never been tested for anything Like I have this I have this conversation a lot like I've never been We don't have blood tests over or we do but like there isn't like a There's not a yearly thing where you're going to get a health check thing It's just right if you want a blood test you go to the doctors and say I feel like crap. Can you do? Yeah, yeah So I've never I've never had blood tests for anything like I could be I could be a Vitamin b12 deficient drew How possible it's possible. I might need some magnesium Some ash waganda does oh god Now you're off the rails ash waganda Um, well, I mean that's interesting that you guys don't do that. I mean not everybody takes it You know, we're supposed to everybody we grew up knowing like you go to the doctor once you get a physical I think I'm the rare one I think other people do like we've we spoke before like I've never I'm gonna say it and I probably will tonight But I've never called like the ambulance because I'm freaking out like you went to the ER a few times didn't you but I did yeah, yeah I probably I will tonight now, but now you've obligated to you must because you haven't had the experience But I mean maybe I mean, I don't really know enough about vertigo for me I don't know if it's a stress thing. It seems to happen randomly Like and it's and it usually happens in the morning like I open my eyes You know like go to like turn your head and like oh geez here we go the room is spinning And it's like go back to the way you was don't move slowly But um, so but I think otherwise so we said what comes next. I mean you are still experiencing that thing where Like being home. You're not feeling so great Yeah, yeah as which used to be like you get back home and everything was good Yeah, yeah, and it's just I don't know. I don't know what is It's just the after effects of that because I think it's caused me that much stress in the past when it's happened Yeah, it's like although to be fair like I was I've been feeling pretty down or just weird Since I've since I've really started the exposure stuff like we talked about it last week Didn't know that I was yeah I was saying about the symptoms and the sensations like I'm noticing that I'm feeling it a lot more often at the minute Whether it's because I'm doing more I think it might be because like we've spoke about this in the past when I've consumed myself with anxiety Like I'm constantly on the forum or I'm looking at other people talking about it I'm talking to other people for two hours every Thursday and hearing their stuff and You know, maybe it's not Maybe I need to take a step back. That's what I'm thinking you're probably right and I think like Um When we're in a bad spot like almost any stress can manifest like we get happy anxiety We get mad anxiety. We're sad anxiety like stress Like, you know, you have a big project at work or something anxiety like everything becomes anxiety for us You know, we're in that state So I think yeah the fact that you're out there and you've decided like screw this man I want to be able to do this. I want to get to florida. I need to get my life back Like that is stress you are putting yourself under stress like you have a big project at work to do And so now you add in I'm going to stream two hours into thursday. I'm going to do video we drew on on saturdays I'm going to spend time on the forums. I'm going to do exposures on video like There it's demand that's pressing on you and I don't think it's unusual that it manifests as an anxiety. Yeah Yeah Like think about other stressful times in your life when you were just like maybe really busy with work or whatever projects Where you didn't have anxiety it just felt like stress like, yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, but now now it feels like this now it feels slightly disorienting dizzy and wobbly Sucks sucks, but that's probably why I would not be surprised. Yeah, yeah Like if you made the conscious decision like, you know what screw it. I'm just going to stay in my house I bet you in a day or two you'd start to feel better. Yeah, you just sat and you know xbox PlayStation PlayStation. Sorry I know this is like a holy war Yeah, we just hung out on the playstation for the next three days and did nothing but drive your daughter to school And all the things that you're safe doing You probably said to feel a lot better. Yeah. Yeah, I think so You take stress out of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So unfortunately, I think that's not yeah, that's better Yeah, that's not what I want to do like I but I feel like I want to work on myself for a bit. So Basically, that is stressful and stress manifests as anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It doesn't you know what? Well, let me rephrase that I and I always include us as us people like us. I'm one of them still right even though maybe I'm still one of them And if I'm not careful, I could revert to old habits. So yeah, yeah, totally I mean, dude, you know, my phone would ring and I would have a panic attack my phone. Yeah, you're gonna have a panic attack So like any stress anything that would come at me was just like this is not this I can't handle this Yeah, and it would go anxiety was dizzy and all that stuff. So I think as you get better Like as you get better at being an asda, you'll actually feel better all the time Yeah, yeah, you know Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with it. But that that's what I want to focus my attention on because I want to Like there's so many things that I want to do Right I don't know what to say. Yeah, I'm gonna say like I want to go to florida people know that I want to go to florida The reason I want to go to florida is because I want to go and meet somebody in florida Somebody that I've been talking to for like a month my princess basically I don't know whether it's the name or not. Yeah, fuck it. It's tina basically that's in this group Yeah, that's what I'm saying So that's that's why I want to work on myself right now So I think if like doing the streams and doing the additional videos and stuff is Hampering my progress personally. Yeah, I think I feel that I need to like step back a bit and yeah, yeah You know, I mean because that's that's the most important thing to me now is like Getting a life getting a life basically. Yeah, so you can actually do that Which is like I could not be happier about that that's awesome And second of all, I think you do and I think anybody who's watching like so for you right now You're working on that stuff and you're doing a lot of exposure work and but you're also doing this video stuff So that's your life But for other people they might be working on things and also being really actively involved in maybe church activities or A social report or something they have other hobbies Something when you're doing this work and you're immersed in it all the time something has to give Yeah, yeah, like it's not realistic So to me my advice to you as your friend would be yes step back a little bit from the video stuff If you have to like the most important thing is the work you're doing on yourself Then the stream and this stuff that we do but yeah, totally normal So the advice to other people would be like you can't you can't keep yourself loaded up all the time It's not a good day. Yeah. Yeah, that's bad because like if I'm not thinking about like doing the stream Then I'm thinking about Going out doing exposure stuff and then I'm trying to like I'm Really trying to make a conscious effort because I want to Meet Tina and like she's on it out coming over here And I don't want to I don't want her to have to fly 4 000 miles to come and sit in my fucking house You know, I mean not that it's not a lovely house, but it's all right. It's all right I don't want to have to tidy up in that so No, but I want I just want to do normal things No, that that I hear you I hear you so just you just keep working on that stuff and expect to feel like shit sometimes Yeah, yeah and like back off on some of the other stuff that's optional everybody We all have optional things in our lives So sometimes when you're doing this work like you got to get rid of some of the optional things temporarily Or maybe I might week to week Yeah, maybe do you like the stream once a month or something and just see what happens and because I do want to Do it like it's a massive part of my goal as to what I would love to continue doing it But at the moment it's just not I feel like I need to just try a few other things and just see if I can make myself feel a bit better Yeah, it's not very nice Like doing this is very different doing these videos with you because like we're just sitting I can edit some out If I need to get up walk around or whatever But doing the live thing is a different kind of pressure like you know what it's like You've said that you've felt uneasy doing lives before like nobody notices, but it is There's a massive weird man. It's weird. It's different Yeah, the one of the last ones I did when I sat down And I went up going for almost an hour or so past But when I first sat down I was feeling very derealized Yeah, it's just you know, I had that feeling and like when you're live what are you supposed to do? Like sorry guys, I'm gonna end this I could Just ride right and then I feel like wait a minute So anyway And plus yeah, then you're tethered for two hours. I'm like what am I gonna talk about for two hours? I'm like what if nobody calls me like I It's pretty stressful. I'm gonna say I mean, I can't can't tell you the number of times that I've heard you say like somebody call me Somebody Can't call again It's a nice idea, but I'm probably not in the best position to do it the minute that's one. So maybe yeah, yeah Yeah, but I agree. So I think that's probably what you're feeling the way you feel at home now. You just yeah Yeah, I think stress manifests as that. Yeah. Yeah, so just use the tools even at home Like I've been telling people a couple of people like just even when you're home use the same tools, you know All right, just feel that way. All right. I feel like that. Oh, well. Yeah. What's the difference? I don't think you change you're not changing your routine though because of it Like in other words when you're home, you're still feeling wobbly. Maybe even at home But you're not like you're not reacting. It's not like you're changing anything. Yeah. No, I'm still do I'm still still doing whatever Yeah, still doing the housework still doing cooking the dinner still taking my daughter school every day. So Like it's exactly I'm doing exactly the same thing I'm not avoiding the stuff that I was already doing Yeah So I don't know but like we should well, we should probably not touch on this But like the weather at the minute and like the dark early nights and stuff It I think I think it affects me a lot more than I actually have noticed before that's a thing Yeah, that's a thing, you know, and it's sometimes it's so funny when we talk about this stuff like um I think people get this impression that I'm like I poo poo everything. I shit. I love everything. I don't like seasonal effective order is a thing. It's an action Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks people in the northern hemisphere like we're in it's dark here by now five o'clock It's pitch black five o'clock in the evening. It's like as simple as like I woke up this morning And the sun was shining through the curtains like it was bright. I came downstairs I felt really good and then this afternoon it went gray It was raining and like I noticed that I feel just a bit gloomy or about things Yeah, it might not be that but I don't know there's got to be something in human I think there is something in it. I think the other thing that it does is I remember I found Like and I was doing the hardest of my work in the winter in the snow and stuff. Yeah, yeah That weather just uh, even if you grew up and I'm in it from here, so I'm used to it But yeah, yeah, like it just makes you feel like it gives you an excuse sometimes Yeah, yeah, it's cold and crappy out. I just kind of like lay on the sofa and like watch a movie Yeah, so it takes away your motivation and some people start to literally get depressed by the end of a long winter It's a thing that's that's the I think you've just hit the nail on the head. It's the motivation It just makes you feel it doesn't make you feel good about yourself when you look out the window and it's Right pissing it down and it's windy and And it's not giving you a reason to say. Yeah, I want to go out there. I don't want to go out there. It sucks Yeah Right whereas like in the summertime, it's just a beautiful day. It's you know, it's yeah Yeah, you find yourself degrees whatever your alien temperatures are but it could be anything could stop raining But yeah, but it doesn't matter if it's sunny. It's like, oh, I can go to the beach Like there's things that you could be thinking even if you're struggling And we're off to track a little bit but even if you're struggling and you can't go to the beach But at least when it's sunny out and you know, your friends are going to the beach You could say oh, I really wish I could go to the beach now. Yeah You know, it's five o'clock in the afternoon. It's dark. It's cold. It's rainy and gloomy You're not thinking like, oh boy, I wish I could go out now. No one's thinking that Yeah, yeah, that's right when the sun's out and that it makes you feel like you want to go outside Right, even if you don't need to Whereas like now that's the difference or even if it's a challenge for you at least its motivation Like, oh, I wish I could go out and do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to go out and live life When it's raining and gloomy and dark like yeah, I'll lose that a little bit Yeah, yeah But but many people seasonal defective seasonal effective disorder studied all over the place in the northern hemisphere Like where we live especially and it's just it's a real thing like it's a thing So yeah, I mean don't use it as an excuse but notice it. I'm not going out. I'm not going out till April That's it. I've seasonal effective disorder. I'm done. I'm out. I'm out. So but it's a thing. It's a thing. Yeah, yeah So I guess we kind of run the gamut on this one get out practice shopping people. Yeah, that's it. What we on 40 minutes just over Yeah, my phone isn't showing me the timer. So I don't know. It's about it's about 45 Yeah, yeah So I think we'll have to whoever I know has come up with the topic for the next one I don't know what it's going to be. So what's today? Today is December 8th We probably have one one or two of these more that we can squeak in Yeah, well, we're doing a Christmas edition and we with the plush Santa hats on we will have to do I have a Santa hat because I suppose like how do I deal with Christmas because like that is a That's huge Why do I always come up with these you always come up with the topic We always say everybody comment leave us your suggestions, but we're not going to run with any of them We're going to go. I'm not paying okay. We will completely ignore everything you say It's talking about what we feel like anyway Like that seems to be the question. You are the vice president in charge of topics. So for sure I like you come up with them I think that's that would be our next one because it'll be December today's the 8th. So what it'll be, you know I can't do that December 15th Oh, wow I just flipped you completely around. Yeah, we'll leave them. Yeah, that'll be good. That'll be sure that's going to become something now Maybe I can see the wheels turning already. What can I turn that into but um, yeah, it's a totally flipped and I caught it But the christmas thing is good the holiday thing People get There's some high anxiety over the holidays. I think because of gatherings. I gotta get together with my family Yeah, exactly. I have to do this I guess there's people that are on their own as well, but christmas like Both yeah, yeah Both the loneliness or like it leads to depression or the problem I'm actually I'm doing christmas on my own this year. So like tell me that yeah It'll be a good it'll be a good podcast for me to be involved in like share my What I think about it because it's going to be weird this year like my family's no more You're not the first year. Yeah first year for you, right? So because my lad wants to spend christmas with his mom because he's never done that before I've always gone and picked him up like halfway through the day So he's having he's having the whole day with her. So I've said to my daughter like you may as well spend christmas day with Your mom and then we'll do her as the day after Yeah, so it's going to be Strange Well, it's good. We could definitely talk about that because I think people go both ways either they get overwhelmed with family Obligations and gatherings or they feel alone both of those things. Yeah, pretty big deal pretty big deal I think another topic we'll just we'll do at one point because this is coming up a lot lately that the people I've been talking to is That uh, and it's you know, so comment if you're watching the video if these things resonates with you This thing where people take on carrying burdens I think this sounds like outside of the realm of what I usually talk about But I know you're carrying burdens that aren't yours to carry So many people seem to have that thing where like Well, I don't want to let people down. That's totally I get that part but like You know, I have this party coming up and and they're I have to they get anxiety over like I must prepare For this party. I must it's my daughter's bridal shower I'm using real examples from people and you guys are you are but and it's like well Maybe the overriding topic is like, how do I stop thinking that the world revolves around me? And I don't mean that in a bad selfish way Yeah, yeah, no Ask but when in an anxiety state like you're always focused inside so much that like you relate everything back to you Like I'm gonna ruin the bridal shower. I'm gonna ruin the party. I'm like, no, you're not like really like we need to get over ourselves Sometimes yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a very selfish disorder man. It's a certain extent. Yeah Yeah, not because it not because you are a selfish person. Yeah. Yeah, no get so focused inside that. Yeah everything becomes about like What's gonna do things to us and how are we gonna do things to the rest of the world by being this way? So we may be talking about that one day too. And if anybody has comments or things that's a good topic Just thought about it. I need to come up with the topic too, man. I'm like, yeah, man. I'm waiting Well, we are slacking. Is this the fourth one? Yeah, this is like the fourth one. I think you had all the fourth topics. Yeah, yeah What I'm doing we hang up. I'm just gonna go sit in the dark Topics like furiously scrolling on like with a crayon on the wall It's like serial killer. Um, yeah, so I guess we're done. I think I think we're about done. Yeah, thanks for watching Yeah, thanks guys as always. I guess we'll see you on next saturday And uh, yeah, we do it. We'll do a watch party on this one too. I like those. Yeah. Yeah I think people enjoy them Let's just keep them keep them talking for a minute. Yeah, we're just here silent. Well people are commenting away Because they do the only thing that's that's stupid about the watch party and if anybody wants to comment in the watch party The watch party is it's a good feature But what's weird is that when it ends Like people are in the middle of a discussion and just yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I noticed that. Yeah, yeah What the other thing that's really cool is I think it was dana in the group That came up yesterday the day before and she said she wanted to start doing that With like the videos I've done with holly. I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen that. It's a good idea, isn't it? It's a good idea. And you know, so we've got a bunch that we've done. I have some of my old videos I'm thinking maybe we should think about that like yeah, just make it a regular thing Yeah, like pick a topic and let people like watch a video live and discuss it. I think it's it's cool It's a cool feature. Yeah. Yeah, just that then one of us decides to end it boom the discussion is over Good night. We're gonna close the pub, right? You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here people It's a little bit abrupt All right, anyway, so that's a deal with that. Yeah, man. Oh, we'll come up with it Should I stop? Should I stop the recording? I think we could stop recording. I think people have seen enough of us for today Yeah, I agree. You can hit that button and we'll have that awkward moment. We're not sure if it's still recording Yeah, yeah Good night. God bless. Yes