 What's really becoming very interesting about hemp is hemp is of course becoming the next big agricultural product You're seeing all these states that have been very conservative and maybe very much against cannabis Now all their farmers are clamoring to get hemp licenses if that state requires it some do some don't it changes by the state But you know we are seeing like say a state like Texas which Has almost no interest in legalizing cannabis for medicinal. It's got a very very very restrictive medicinal program They really don't even want to do adult use, but they have just started looking into hemp farming because look at it This way if you're a cotton grower in Texas cotton is very Intensive on pesticides lots of bugs. It's a it's a really hard product to grow and process It's a it's just a challenge as a farmer Throw hemp into the mix it grows really easy and they don't hardly have any pesticides to deal with and you can grow it Outside you can grow it in just about any climate and then you've got a real big market for it right now So part and parcel with that As you know with agricultural markets farmers want to have options on that product they want to be able to Figure out their pricing and they want to smooth their pricing And that's something that we're probably going to start to see in the hemp industry And you can't really do any kind of hemp financial instruments without Pricing and that's where it starts to get super interesting because this is a market where we don't have any kind of standardized pricing and we have a great panel here that Help us with a lot of the data that we use at Green Market report for some of our reports But I'm going to turn it over now to our moderator Peter Vogel, and he is the CEO of leaf wire All right. Thank you Debra So we are the economics of the new hemp market. We're excited to be here today And I think you'll find we've a bunch of very insightful panelists I know I've enjoyed speaking with them over the last few weeks They have a lot of interesting things to say about the market. We all know there's a ton of confusion right now The rules and regulations keep changing with hemp with CBD No one really quite yet has a clear idea how the markets markets evolving So we're going to try and address some of those topics. That's our goal today to try and unravel some of those questions So I'm going to start off by asking each of the panelists to introduce themselves and just give a brief 30-second intro of your experience with a hemp and or cannabis and kind of why it's of interest We'll start off to my left with Bethany Gomez director of research at Brightfield group Hi My name is Bethany. I'm the managing director of Brightfield group We are a market research firm focused predominantly on the legal CBD and cannabis industry So we first started out back in 2015 looking at the cannabis space Analyzing the market from a competitive landscape from a supply chain standpoint from a Market sizing and forecasting standpoint to help our clients identify white space in the market We've started focusing on the CBD industry about 1824 months ago at this point when we had a lot of clients start coming to us and saying things like You know, I want to start a CBD line. Should I start a CBD line? and most of them had a very unclear view as to what all of the challenges what You know the the potential was in this market So it's been really interesting to you know to track this market both from a consumer standpoint from a company standpoint from a Regulation standpoint and really watch this market explode over the past 18 months And are really excited to continue watch it explode over over the next five years as well And to Bethany's left is Kevin Polarski chief commercial officer at Revolution Enterprises Right here in Chicago. Yep. Thanks everybody for coming today. I worked for a firm called Revolution Enterprises We are a cannabis medical cannabis MSO multi-state operator in existence for about five years My charge at Revolution is to develop a hemp program as well as looking at Burgers acquisitions and any other deals that come our way My background is really in the capital market space a private private adjoining revolution I was a consultant at Pricewaterhouse Coopers My clients were big banks in New York and then prior to that I was in the hedge fund space Thank you Kevin to Kevin's left is Jonathan Rubin the CEO of new leaf data services Thank You Peter. So my name is Jonathan Rubin CEO data services We are an independent unbiased price reporting agency and serve the markets the same way that other commodity price reporting agencies do that serve agricultural markets to energy markets We have two divisions cannabis benchmarks and hemp benchmarks. We've Launched our US cannabis spot index five excuse me four years ago. We've been in the space for five years and Our mission is to bring price transparency to serve both the physical market buyers and sellers in the field As well as the financial markets as they evolve as most commodity markets do To ultimately mature into futures and derivatives trading so serving both the physical market and Growing into the financial market. I have 30 years of commodity experience originally electricity natural gas coal through petrochemicals and ultimately In the 2012 time frame so the cannabis market starting to open up and thought hey, it's another commodity This is a great opportunity. It's a market. That's opaque the and deals are done in in the dark bilaterally and transparency in pricing makes more efficient markets and So now we've recently launched our hemp benchmarks and we're excited to talk about that hemp market today. Great. Thank you, Jonathan So to start off one of the topics we wanted to cover was The general confusion around all the rules and regulations around hemp and CBD We know back in December the farm bill got passed which Legalized the production of industrial hemp Which up up until that point had actually been on a on a level on par with heroin though in December that changed But we're still seeing trucks that are carrying hemp travel through states that aren't as friendly For example farmers that are from Oregon or Kentucky are going through other states like Oklahoma and Idaho and are getting pulled over arrested their product is being confiscated and This is a huge issue for the industry right now. So one of the first questions is just how is this confusion and Uncertainty affecting the growth of the industry and any ideas on when people think this will start to clear up Sure, so, you know, there's certainly a lot of a lot of confusion and a lot of challenges in the industry right now and a lot of that is stemming from You know the fact that hemp and CBD is you know really regulated at at the federal level, but it leaves a lot of Loopholes open from a CBD side of things and there are not regulations in place that will really Bring this into a great level of clarity So while cultivation was allowed for at the federal level in the farm bill What it basically dictated was that states were able to make their own rules surrounding Cultivation and they were able to authorize Authorize farmers all authorized firms to be able to cultivate within those states now from a that says nothing about Retail sales that says nothing about these products turning into an actual commercial market So what happens is that while it's legal to grow if you are Authorized to do so by your state. It is not necessarily Legal to sell it in whatever form is it may take place now The farm bill essentially took this from the purview of the DEA which was it was on a controlled substances Act and put it into the purview of the FDA now the FDA is trying to figure out what to do with it It hasn't been permitted by the FDA and there's a lot of you know The FDA is trying to come up with a rational way to approach it So, you know while from the CBD side of things there are Products that are being carried, you know throughout the country There are different states that have different approaches to it Some states have regulations in place that openly permit it other states have Regulation place that are actively prohibiting it other states have no regulations in place and are trying to Find ways to grapple with this from from a regulatory standpoint. So there's a lot of confusion that's happening in the industry right now I will say that this industry is certainly one that has grown up with the mentality of ask forgiveness instead of permission So for every you know one person that stopped, you know it with you know had You know someone who has their product seized off of a store shelves in, you know, Oklahoma There's thousands of others that aren't There's you know hundreds and hundreds of companies that are growing up within the space and Seeing multi millions of dollars worth of sales per year, you know in the minority are the ones that are saying That are seeing law enforcement are seeing Actions against them. Well, that's certainly a challenge The regulatory status right now is such that multinational corporations are looking at this their legal teams are looking at it very closely and identifying that There this is an area where at least from a retailer standpoint the risk level is low enough that they're willing to try it And that's a really significant shift from before December So I'll sum that up in two words three words FDA is illegal. Excuse me CBD is illegal The FDA put out a memo the same day that the farm bill was passed and it basically said If you put CBD in any product that's ingestible, it's illegal But the reality of it is that you've got four or five companies out there Jen Canis CB sciences X and all The other ones don't come to Charlotte's web that are that are multi billion dollar companies and they've been selling this stuff or The better part of the last two or three years the challenge I think on CBD is is At least two-fold one. What's the proper dosage for efficacy? Nobody really knows Some people claim that 10 milligrams will Help their pain I've taken 600 milligrams and it hasn't affected me at all So, you know, you tell me if you look at some of the studies that are out there They claim that at least a hundred or 200 milligrams are required But the problem is you don't have any data to support what it does and quite frankly There are a ton of snake oil salesmen out there in the CBD market The recent study by the USDA Looked at 24 different products 68 percent of which didn't have the amount of CBD on the label that that was claimed so, you know, there are there are companies out there that are making a lot of money in Defiance of the law Which is fine as Nothing he said, you know on March 31st. The FDA is gonna hold a hearing where they're gonna listen to the industry's concerns I think there's so much money in the space at this point that they will allow it But until there's more, you know proper Research around the efficacy I think that we all need to be a little bit careful about who we buy from and what we think it'll do on One more point. I would say that the real problem in my mind with the CBD market is it's not third-party tested So cannabis in the state of Illinois is required to be not only is it very stringent and strict from a rule standpoint But every product we put out the door has to have a third-party test So if you're gonna go out and use CBD, please make sure that the product that you're using is Third-party tested. Otherwise, you really don't know what you're getting And what's going on that front? Just to hit that quickly and you know, I think that there's there's a couple of points to be made there Well, it's absolutely not required for it to be third-party tested And there are all of the large companies that are operating in the space are Taking this upon themselves. And so most of those products, you know, that are those top 20 companies those top 50 companies That are operating in the space do third-party testing. They will have batch numbers on them They will have those those lab results on their site, you know, on their websites. They'll have the qvcs I think the industry is certainly going to be moving in that direction and the industry Does have that Is working towards a seal of approval the industry is working towards Developing those regulations in absence of the federal regulations And so while there's certainly a lot of snake oil salesmen out there We're certainly tracking more than 700 brands operating in the space most of those brands aren't moving any product You know, they're very small very small brands, you know That are just entrepreneurs trying to get into the space the larger companies that are operating in the space They are testing their products They do take most of them do take quality control very seriously and these change retailers that are really what's driving the market right now Her is going to be driving the market through this year and the years beyond Are certainly requiring that level of testing and quality control And so, you know in order for products to be approved as a supplement, they do need to You know be considered generally recognized as safe They do need to prove, you know, but there's two different points on that one is, you know What is in your product is what you say you have in it actually in it is that, you know Not going to be harmful the other side of it is proving the effectiveness of CBD and various, you know variations of CBD for, you know, a wide variety of conditions Now clinical trials take time But testing, you know and ensuring that products have what they say they have in them is something that's, you know Developing quite rapidly and you better believe that, you know, those products that are going to be, you know carried on the shelves of CVS or Walgreens and Places like that are going to require that those products are tested. I was just to finish up the just the question about the Farm Bill The only thing I wanted to add to what they're saying about the Farm Bill is that because I want to bring it back to supply chain and production and demand and You know in addition to everything that they talked about with the Farm Bill The main takeaway here is that there's a lot of work to be done between the states and the FDA and the USDA and the pace of that their efforts collectively and individually Shape how big this market becomes and what I wanted to do is come back to the point about the hemp market Why leave the the projections range? And so they make certain assumptions about the effectiveness and the speed with which the Farm Bill can be Implemented effectively across the country and how much in intra and interstate commerce will will take effect And so you we see projection so last year the CBD retail sales market Roughly 630 million dollars right so now when you look forward depending on how quickly Things get implemented the forecast for next year range from about flat another 650 million perhaps to three three times that maybe two billion dollars so the market Projections can are varying widely and so that's just a really important takeaway on the Farm Bill because it's going to help You'll understand the shape what the opportunities are So Based on that topic of the supply and demand and the pricing I know Kevin that you've been involved in futures markets and other in other commodities And we're curious to see what you how dramatically do you think the demand right now for CBD is really driving the hemp market? And is that gonna you think that's gonna change a lot? Yeah, so roughly 85% of the hemp that's grown right now is going for CBD Let's not get over our skis on how big the market is okay. We grew 80,000 acres of hemp last year in Illinois we did 11 million acres of corn So we're nowhere close to having a viable futures market You have to have people that want a hedge and people that want to be commercials and buy the product in order to have that possible If you get to the point of consolidation where you have required third-party testing remember It's not required right now. I have a mother position that it should be then you'll have companies grow up and become true buyers of Hemp or flower for CBD You don't have that that market yet. It's just nowhere near big enough, right? So, you know, maybe we'll do 250,000 acres this year. I think That's probably pretty conservative, but compared to 11 million acres in one state of corn, you know, it's just You were at least five years away from it. That's the first issue. The second issue is data Every state has an idiosyncratic market in flower CBD flower Meaning that you know, whatever the market is in Maine versus the market in Oregon versus the market in Kentucky They're all different and they're and they're different because of the cost of shipping because of the interstate commerce risks, right? And the last of all, let's be let's be honest CBD flower is pot Okay, it is it's just been bred down to under point three percent THC Real hemp has one or two percent CBD in it and it's grown for seed and fiber so over the course of Genetics we've taken the marijuana plant and we've actually turned it into the CBD plant the challenge with that is that as it grows It can change its stable genetics from being under point three percent to being over point three percent So now if you're a CBD farmer and you and you put your your crop on a truck to go to Colorado and you tested it was point two five on the whatever you tested some of that flower might test it at point three One in which case it's marijuana and you've just put yourself in a legal mind I want to follow up on your comment about the site 280 Excuse me 80,000 Yeah, so roughly to last so last year there were roughly in the US roughly 250,000 excuse me 80,000 acres of licensed hemp And that's a really important metric because it's an estimate but that's a really important metric because again when we talk about how the market grows The farm bill implementation, but also how much that additional Licensed acreage hat is built out in 2019 and the year But a couple of really important footnotes to the acreage metric is first of all and and this is anecdotal based on our Interactions with our global hemp network and our US Network Many of the farmers are only planting a fraction of the eight licensed acreage So we we've talked to plenty of supply growers who have 20,000 acres and and they're planning on planting 200 acres and So there's a lot so you have to really Kind of dial in and understand how much Capacity is actually being used of that license capacity Akerage and then additionally and this is anecdotally. I don't know if it applies to the entire market But I've had conversations with many growers who've had crop failures of 50% so if you're actually Only doing a fraction of the total licensed acreage and then you're having crop failures What you're bringing to the market, you know, that's gonna help support prices Ultimately, I think every commodity everyone would agree modities ultimately move toward the marginal cost of production But so there's you know, it's very it's it's really difficult to get a gauge on the market in terms of that production because of those I know I'll just finish up this Rad of comments here that The Well You know to hit that point, that's a real challenge for brands that are operating in the space right now those It's a real challenge for brands that are operating in the space right now because they're all running and meeting with every chain retailer in the country and trying to ink these deals but In order to you know to be able to to build those relationships with chain retailers They need to actually be able to fill orders of that the magnitude that That a Walgreens or a right-aid or a giant eagle is going to require And if you don't own your supply chain and you don't know where all of you know Your supply is coming from and your pricing is so variable and all of the inputs, you know On this wholesale market are so variable That it really creates a lot of challenges for these companies who are trying to scale right now And so I think you know it just hitting this point that that you know Rationalizing that supply chain and getting you know a more clarity into the wholesale market is Absolutely crucial, you know for these companies, you know to be able to scale effectively I just on the vertical integration Taking analogs from other markets that have been Commodity markets that have deregulated and opened up vertical integration Can can and often is a good early term to mid-term strategy? but longer term a Unvirg an unbundled supply chain provides better opportunities for hedging risk management what you find and I can take the analog of electricity For the power generators there were distributor Transmission and then there was distribution when they they were hammering on about deregulating But when they were finally forced to break into those three silos, they realized wait We're not best practices across all of these business. So I agree that initially Owning that owning or at least having option Optionality around your supply chain in the short-term mid-term is really important to make sure that you don't have any issues In getting your product to the end use Consumer but longer term. I'm not aware of any commodity based Industry where vertical integration reduce the best term long-term results Right if you're a if you're a beauty brand then you should be a beauty brand You should not be a farmer also, right? It doesn't you know It doesn't make sense when you need to focus on being a brand and developing your brand to a consumer package good You know type product, but you know a functional viable scalable wholesale market, you know allows that to be you know a true input Right now the stories that you hear about, you know people trying to purchase on the markets and you know, I don't trying to Requiring a payment sent to Switzerland with a you know shipment put on a boat And I mean it's just like the Kind of the scale of the craziness of the wholesale market and trying to nail down those supplies You know it was really challenging right now. So I think the the more The more scalable and the more sophisticated that market becomes You know the the quicker this industry can continue to pick up so so back to looking at the the supply and demand of Comparative markets, you think it's fair to look at how the campus market evolved I mean we now have five to ten years experience Data on both medical and recreational to see I'd be curious to see what you guys think about how similar is it or Do you expect it to roll out differently? It's not similar at all And it's not similar at all because each state has their own regime regarding cannabis There's a complete dichotomy between limited license states and unlimited license states So what do I mean by that here in Illinois? We have 22 cultivation licenses one for every state police district. We enjoy our revenue at about 3,000 to 35 hundred dollars a pound in Oregon where they have unlimited licenses their current wholesale prices are 250 to 300 dollars a pound So you can see just in and of itself the dichotomy is huge most of the multi-state operators have chosen to become vertically integrated because we can control our own supply and Make sure that not only are we distributing to as many distributors as we can But with the impending Illinois legalization bill there's going to be a huge shortage of medicine and so those Dispensaries that are aligned with the cultivator can help ensure that they're going to have product When the demand goes up by 10 because the statistics the statistics show that once you go from a Medicinal market to a recreational market or adult use market the demand is a 10x plus So watch the news over the next few months. You'll see You know, there's going to be questions around that like we've seen many shortages and new markets that have come online You know the hemp market is in my opinion the hemp market long-term is about disruption and is about fiber Right. So if you think about it most farmers Sit down a combine and that's how they make their living. They're not out there calling males, you know and worried about You know whether or not they're trimming their plants, right? I mean even those farms that can they can farm CBD and an industrial level and I've visited those farms you know doing 1500 acres on an industrial level is a huge undertaking and To the extent that you don't have a dry climate you can't do that because you have to be able to dry that hemp And so there's a lot of reasons by hemp CBD is priced where it is today You know the fluctuations on a percentage basis of CBD per flower can be anywhere from a buck and a half to five dollars But every state's different and so, you know, the other thing that I think we need to look at is CBD isolate which is the actual third derivative of CBD flower and is ninety nine point nine percent pure Eighteen months ago was trading at fifteen thousand dollars a kilo. I just bought a kilo yesterday without having to send money to Switzerland For five thousand dollars So, you know, is it gonna be two thousand dollars a year from now? And if so, you know, what does that mean for the market? You know, I wanted to add to the Your question about the differences by the cannabis and hemp. So I agree with everything that Kevin just said in addition to that Just the direction that the producers came from is also very different, right? So the cannabis side While there was have always been new entrants the industry started as a kind of a you know grassroots no pun intended grassroots small I'm not a fan of the word artisanal but craft and the people were growing and so they were really they were not Commercial farmers. They were they were there was an industry. It was a cottage industry that they blossomed to what we see now Whereas on the hemp side While there's all types of new entrants many of them in the hemp industry came from large commercial agricultural Backgrounds so they're starting from a position of understanding that there is enormous need for technology and innovation across the the the harvesting equipment as we pointed out the processing equipment the drying equipment people Farmers with fifteen thousand acres find out that after a hundred and fifty acres They get no longer dry hang and they need mechanical dryers. Where are we going to get those and so? You know all sort of kind of if we were to sum up this panel in one word. I would use word I believe Kevin said or disruption hemp has the opportunity to disrupt and reshape the entire agricultural landscape and People for a flung who don't think cannabis is going to impact them who may be conservative investors and say okay Well, I'm just going to collect my interest on my caterpillar or John Deere debt or I'm going to get my dividends They're not thinking about or if they're not they should be thinking about well, you know How is how is the supply for these new the harvesting equipment going to develop who's going to own that market share? So it's going to disrupt every element Farmers have to make the the millennial old crop rotation crop switching decision soybeans are down seven percent since the fall There's there's all kinds of opportunities to get into the space and it's going to completely change in the agricultural landscape I think you talked about cotton at the beginning or maybe Deborah did it's going to compete with cotton for textiles with corn for biofuels and ethanol with with with other seeds and grains for food food and Protein powders etc. So Anyone who's kind of peripherally thinking oh that doesn't affect me It's going to affect every agricultural product in a ripple effect. How many people here know how? CBD hemp is grown versus CBD fiber or hemp fiber is gone So so when you grow Hemp for fiber it grows 12 to 15 feet tall and is sewn very tightly Think about it like being a mesh Okay, when you grow Hemp for CBD it's grown on five foot centers So think about that. It's grown like a Christmas tree farm or like strawberries So the most successful CBD farmers have been vegetable farmers You know the most common way of harvesting CBD hemp chainsaw Because the stalks can be anywhere from a half inch in diameter to six inches in diameter so it's incredibly labor-intensive and The third thing that I want to mention is there's a misconception by farmers out there that they're going to get $50 a pound a hundred dollars a pound if you're really good at growing hemp flower You might get three or four hundred dollars a pound It's the equivalent of the same bud that we sell in the cannabis base But 95% of the farmers can't do that and as a result their flower goes for biomass It's extracted into oil and those prices tend to run anywhere from 10 to 50 dollars a pound And what's interesting about the hemp market is right now? There's a shortage of biomass why because we harvested six months ago and farmers want to get paid at the fall So at the fall the prices, you know Fall precipitously and then they rise again in the middle of the year because we don't have any supply If there was a futures market where you've got a term structure of futures And you're in contango or backwardation Where you actually are paying for the storage and insurance to store that for a period of time Then you'd have a much more level market, but we don't have the demand yet for that I hope it comes because I think that there'll be a futures market or a capital market whether it's forward cash However, or the flower the seed and the fiber, but again, it's just way too nascent When oh, I was gonna just add to that. Yeah, just yeah, the futures futures We talked about physical markets and financial markets Serving the financial markets with with with indices and cash settled contracts is going to take a lot of time It's an enormous the complex process to have a listing on a major exchange That and then that it listing has to gain momentum Deficient for traders be saying hey, I want a contract and they have to establish the contract And that's to be enough liquidity on a single exchange to attract the traders and even when all of those stars are aligned Many contracts fail. So this is a long-term event but in my mind, it's almost and you know 100% likely to happen because Virtually every agricultural commodity market has and where I'm sitting I would say that the main difference between the cannabis market and the hemp market is You know comes down to the scalability The cannabis market is really not very scalable right now Because you have these artificial, you know lines for each state. You can't sell it across state lines So it's you know basic economics 101, you know If you're in Oregon and there are no license caps and they're cultivating three times as much cannabis as they can sell Then prices are going to drop and you can't sell it in California even though, you know, there's they also have recreational cannabis You can't sell it, you know into another place if you want to you know produce a product in Oregon in the cannabis market You have to cultivate process manufacturer, you know test and retail all within the state of Oregon Then if you want to you know recreate if you want to sell your products in California You have to sell them with a completely, you know integrated supply chain in California based off of products that have been Cultivated processed manufactured Quality tested and sold through dispensaries in the state of California So you have these artificial, you know state lines that are You know messing with the supply and demand If you're looking at the hemp market there you can cultivate in one area and while there's you know Some challenges to be worked out with interstate commerce people can cultivate in one area Process in another place and sell it, you know in all 50 states Well, you know, there's all of the challenges from the FDA level But you know essentially what we're working towards in you know in hemp is a national supply chain What you're seeing globally is also a loosening and regulations. So CBD markets are Developing globally and we see, you know much of the hemp. That's you know Many of the CBD products that are being sold in the US are from Chinese grown hemp So that's something that we don't have in the cannabis market And you can't have an international supply chain in the cannabis market and given how tightly controlled things are You know in cannabis that's you know much much more challenging But wet from a regulatory standpoint people are essentially saying okay, here's the here's the line 0.3% and above that's marijuana. That's tightly controlled below 0.3% THC That's an agricultural commodity and while it'll take a little bit of time for it to get there It can be a global commodity And so there's you know the the hemp market is just much more scalable from that standpoint You know while there's a lot more challenges and a lot more astrocies on you know that versus, you know Some other agricultural commodities. It's you know much more scalable than then the cannabis market is So another another big part of establishing commercial markets And also futures markets is establishing consistent pricing across the industry that people can all agree on But you know the point was made by Kevin earlier that the states are very idiosyncratic I think is where you use that they're all different the all different pricing you know, is there a great source where we can get this pricing and How complicated is that based on every state is probably different? I'm gonna let Jonathan go second because he's gonna plug his company, which is which is great What he's what he's doing is a great service by the way But what I think the challenge is you know, if you want to come up with a national standard First have to agree on what that standard would be. So let's take the corn market by example We trade number two US corn at the Chicago Board of Trade. I was a member there for many years Ranted trading group in the in the grain markets. They also trade number two US corn in Tokyo Right, so you can actually trade the same product that we grow here there There's different rules, but but we've all agreed on a standard called number two US corn Similarly in the bean market in the wheat market in most markets We came up revolution came up with a standard called 1010 and 1010 means that you've got flour that is 10% CBD concentrated and 10% moisture Now the nice thing about having a standard is then you can price against that standard at a discount or a premium That's one approach another approach might be that you price on a per percentage point of CBD within that flower. So let's say we'll take the same example Let's say that you have 10% flower and you know, the market is 250 per percentage point $2 and 50 cents You'll get $25 a pound for that flower But the challenge still lies in that there's there's costs to transport from one place to another You don't have an elevator system like you do in the United States, right? Well, you can take it to your local elevator and you know that that grain doesn't end up going 700 miles It goes 200 miles And so, you know, I think we'll get to a point where we have Pricing and I think what Jonathan is doing is really God's work because he's trying to understand the prices in each market But getting to a national market, I think is is going to take some time Evan thanks for the plug. I don't have to say anything else in all seriousness We sweat the details with what we do at cannabis benchmarks and then benchmarks and Let me just say briefly we collect our price is licensed wholesale transactions through a price contributor network through relationships with Buyer and seller and grower and industry associations as well as in partner data partnerships with other vendors exchanges marketplaces The standard the standards that Kevin talked about and he talked about to the 1010 the CBD moisture content and I love the the yellow number corn number two 13% moisture, which is perfect for popping popping popcorn But in terms of the two standards that you mentioned those are those In terms of how we approach pricing we look to the common denominator in other words So we're aggregating up to a level that the whole industry at least Mostly agrees on in terms of how we report as the industry is mature in a prerequisite for for any contract Futures contract Which is different from a forward contract is that everybody agrees to the same specifications terms a prerequisite is a agreed upon quality standard and Four years ago when we embarked on our first us spot index We started looking at standards and seeing how we could help the industry create a standard and we very quickly realized That week it's we cannot put this you know We cannot put the standard on the on the industry the industry needs to come together collectively whether it's cannabis or hemp and Have agree in in a form where there's pure industry review and peer acceptance about a certain standard So we're advocates for that we're catalysts for that, but we will not dictate a standard What will we will ask is as the markets are maturing? How are you buying and selling what kind of future? Agreements are you doing and how are you structuring and what are you pricing and that's what we'll gravitate to is What is the market telling us that they need the pricing for and then it becomes just as Kevin said? Let's say the standard is either a percentage point CBD potency or the 10% CBD 10% moisture exactly as he said a buyer or seller say We agree this is an inferior product You know we're gonna pull 5% off or we're gonna add 10% because it's Maybe it's higher quality Just a better customer relationship whatever whatever the driver might be to move above or below that reference point But you you trade off the reference point