 Well, hello everyone. Thank you for joining us again for another edition of Dr. Jill Live. I have got a real special guest this evening and super excited to hear all the new things in biotechnology and wearables and in really the future of medicine. We have a leading expert today, Dr. Frank Lipman, founder of 1111 Wellness Center and chief medical officer at The Well, both in New York City. He's a New York Times bestselling author, having written several books on health, including Better Sleep, Better You, The New Rules of Aging, Well, How to Be Well, and the New Health Rules. He is recognized as a pioneer in integrative and functional medicine, what you call good medicine, which I couldn't agree more. Dr. Lipman, welcome. And it's such a delight to connect again with you here and to hear what's new in your world. Great. Lovely to see you again. We haven't seen each other for a while. Yes, yes. And I know it's always fun when we do connect just hearing what's going on in your world. And I'd love to just start with, what's your most recent book? And tell us just a little bit about that. And then we'll go into some of the wearables and stuff. But I want to first highlight the fact that you are a New York Times bestselling author and have written a lot on these topics. Right. Well, my latest one is on sleep, which is all right. But the one before that was more interesting was on aging well. You know, as we get older, I'm now 67, and you start, you know, thinking, you know, I have a grandson, you start thinking about what you can do to stay healthy. And it was just interesting as I got more and more into the research for that book, how interesting it was to find things that I wasn't doing or wasn't telling my patients simple practices. So I thought that was really interesting. So I really like that book because that's now become what I talk about in that book is sort of now becoming very popular. And, you know, the book on sleep is just a book on sleep. I mean, there's nothing new in it. Oh, but there's so many and so many people listening, they're like, Oh, what does he have to say? So in aging, what would be like the top three tips? I'm like you when I read some of these things, I mean, we live it, right? Like we like to show up and try to practice what we preach. And I know I have found so many things through my own life and experiences that work. And then I get to share them with patients or ask colleagues. What would be your top three tips on aging well or living life vibrantly, as long as we can? Well, I think understanding the concept of hormesis is important. That the idea that little stresses are actually good for the body. Now, what what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is what they used to say. So these little stresses like high interval, high intensity interval training, where you push your body for little periods or fasting, where you actually stressing your body by not eating or temperature extremes by going from a sauna or just doing a sauna but jumping from a sauna into a cold plunge. These little stresses on the body have really powerful effects on the aging mechanism. They work with our longevity genes. So there's so many little things one can do, fasting. For instance, I only eat two meals a day now because I used to always think breakfast was such an important meal. And now I do so much better as do so many of my patients do so much better by just having a cup of black coffee in the morning and I eat at probably 12 or one o'clock. I don't even feel hungry. I end up eating less, which is particularly good for aging. And I, you know, this mechanism of hormesis kicks into my body, which triggers these longevity genes. So I think fasting is really helpful. Eating less is really helpful. Obviously, eating as little sugar as possible is really helpful. And then, you know, exercise, you know, the standard things we talk about are all really helpful for aging. Sleeping is important. And then, you know, I started researching a lot of supplements, which can be helpful too. So, you know, there are lots of things that are picked up, sort of researching that book, which you sort of know, but you don't realize how much research there is on all these little, these little habits. You go through, yeah, when you do the read, I'm in the middle of writing my first book. And so I totally understand how that goes. I love that you said, though, the caloric restriction in my mind and the research, that's probably one of the best mechanisms, which is there's multiple ways whether it's eat less, and sugar has such an inflammatory effect. Like you said, I had cancer at 25. So I know well, the effects of sugar and inflammation and cancer. And I realized that was one of those pieces of the puzzle years ago. So caloric restriction. And then sleep is its own book and its own hack for aging, isn't it? I feel like that's one of the kryptonite things in people's lives is lack of sleep or sleep issues. In fact, if I have someone in front of me, and they don't sleep well, it's usually literally the first thing I want to address. Yeah, I think sleep is one of those, you know, we always talked about the three pillars of health, exercise, stress reduction and diet. And we sort of left out sleep. And, you know, the more, once again, the more research you do on when you write a book and you realize the problems associated with a lack of sleep or not sleeping well are enormous. And what's really interesting is I always believed, and most people believe that as you get older, you need less sleep. Yes, you tend to sleep less because it's harder, but it's just as important, if not more important, to really take sleep more seriously when you get older. You know, for instance, I wake up at five o'clock every morning, that's what I do. But I don't go to sleep at 12 o'clock, I'll go to sleep at, you know, nine o'clock. So I think you've got to adjust accordingly. And I think sleep is a really important hack, yeah. And now we can measure it to a certain extent, you know, they're all the... And you held up the O-ring, maybe? Yeah. Which is one, I mean, you know, I think, you know, that's this new thing that I've got into. I'm definitely, you said I'm an expert. I'm not an expert on self-measurement on buy, you know, it's all the buy hacking world that we're now starting to incorporate into medicine. And I'm definitely not the expert. It's the younger guys. You know, I'm part of a startup where all these young guys are incredibly, incredibly smart docs and so together know so much about these wearables and the tech and that. So I just find it's interesting that we can now incorporate it into the way we practice. You know, we've practiced, you know, we started off with, I started off as a Western doctor and we got into Chinese medicine and in the 80s, in the sort of mid 80s when I came here. And that was an inflection point for me. And I think for the culture realizing that there was this combination of, you know, how do you combine Western and Eastern medicine? And then Jeff Bland sort of came out with this whole functional medicine concept, which was an inflection point. And I think we had another inflection point where a few years ago, we started incorporating genetics into the way we practice, which I think is extremely important. Getting someone's blueprint, because your blueprint is different to my blueprint and how I respond to the world or how the world is going to affect my genes is going to be different to yours. I think incorporating sophisticated nutrigenomics or nutrigenics, whatever you want to call it, into our practice of functional medicine was a huge, I mean, that's been a game changer for my practice when I can, you know, measure all these snips and see how these snips work together and see how someone lives their life according to the snips. And I'll give you an example of myself. And then now we have this layer of wearables on top of it. So you got someone's blueprint, you got all the epigenetic lifestyle changes that we recommend. And now people can actually monitor their progress, you know, we can do this plus all the biomarkers. That's very, very exciting time in medicine. Well, I love you title or talk, the future of medicine is now because that's exactly, I feel the same way. In fact, if anything, we almost have too much data, although can you really have too much? Well, no, that's an important point. Yeah, I think people can get overwhelmed. So it's how you use all that data, which is very important. That's where our role is so important, you know, what, what is important and what's the data to use, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I think that's an important point. And are you using as far as data, and obviously we both have our ORA rings and we, we love that I think a lot of patients do are they have other wearable devices, but like heart rate variability sleep, what are some of the top things that you find for biomarkers that are helpful? And there's a lot we could talk about, but what would be your key ones that you might ask a patient about or, or look at with them? Well, you know, I do extensive blood testing. So I do, you know, an advanced lipid panel where we know, same as probably you do, we're looking at so many markers for inflammation and for metabolism or metabolic health that we weren't doing a number of years ago. And now we're doing all the time, whether it's epilepsy, you know, for instance, the regular cholesterol test that most doctors do is completely useless. Absolutely. Yeah, a total cholesterol, it's good and bad together. You can't really make any inferences. Yeah. And people come, you know, go to a doctor and they have a high cholesterol and they get put on a statin, which is crazy. So, you know, now we have, you know, whether it's the Cleveland heart panel or the Boston heart panel, there's so many more markers that can actually help us, whether it's epilopropyrotin B, lopopyrotin A, TMAO, I mean, ADMA. There's so many markers in a, in a panel now, which are very helpful. And then you can mark, you know, insulate, you can measure insulin resistance and metabolic health. So there's so many different markers that can help pinpoint someone's treatment. And then if you want to take the heart health further, you got the, you know, we used to have a calcium score, which is just measuring heart block. Now you can do a clearly, you can do basically an angiogram, you can do a clearly test which measures soft block. I mean, there's so many tests that one can do now to sort of really help people get to another level. Yeah. And it's not, like you said, it's not just the old school thought was we hit 60 and we started to decline. And I think that's one of the things we see in the US especially compared to even other societies and maybe take their, you know, diet and nutrition a little more seriously is this massive decline after the age of 60. But the idea is that we perform vibrantly into maybe our nineties and then just fall dead one day of a heart attack. Exactly. So that's what I want to be. You know, I have a two year old grandson. I want to, you know, he makes me push him around in these little whatever. It's like a lot of hard work and exercise. I want to continue doing that. So absolutely. So obviously these labs, we have so much access in the genetics. Do you have any favorite genetic labs that you use? Or I use three X for genetics. I think they, you know, dabbled with a couple of them before and they found them to be by far, by far the best. Now I'm biased as well. You know, I'm going to be on the advisory board, but I use them all the time now. Almost all my patients get a three X for genetic test because I find it so helpful. You know, not that the other tests don't do it, but an example of how helpful genetic testing is, I'll give you my example and we use a common gene, but not all of them. Most of them will measure this gene, you know, the APOE34 gene, which is now, it's called the Alzheimer gene. So I was, you know, I first, many years ago, became pre-diabetic eating what I thought was a healthy vegetarian or pescatarian diet and, you know, realized I was pre-diabetic. And then I became eating started more, eating more paleo and tons of saturated fat. And yes, I lost weight and felt great and my numbers corrected, not my cholesterol. But when I did my genetic test, I found out I was APOE34. I had an E34 and someone like me with this, that genetic variant, you shouldn't be eating too much saturated fat. So although I don't think saturated fat is a problem for everyone, but if you have that gene snip, you know, you've got to be careful because that gene snip is part of the snip sort of affects how these fats are metabolized. So I changed my diet again to eat less saturated fat. So I think knowing, you know, there's so many things in these genetic tests that you can pick up, which will tell you if you're predisposed to certain things. So that's just one example of, you know, how you can actually shift people's diets the way they exercise, how quickly they recover or if they're prone to get injury or types of exercise are good for them. So I think there's so many things you can pick up in these genetic tests, which are very targeted for the particular person. I love those examples because APOE, if you're listening, the APOE34 is a really big deal. And the four fours, they can have upwards of 50 to 90% risk of Alzheimer's. So really important to know because that particular person especially should not be on high saturated fats. They actually grab onto the fats and store them in the heart and the brain. And I were just at higher risk for those lipid issues and inflammation. So I love that. And like you said, I found same thing with some of my genetics, like I'm, I do so much better on muscle weight training kinds of programs than a super high cortisol, like a long run, I was raising my cortisol way too much. I tend to that naturally. And I did a lot better when I really pulled back and did more walking, hiking and then some weight training. I don't really do running anymore at all. I know that I was doing the wrong thing for my body. And we're talking about functional medicine is a foundation, but personalized is where it's really at. Yeah, I think functional medicine is great. But if you really want to personalize it, you need to do genetic testing. And then I think the future is going to be continuous blood glucose monitoring. If you want sleep monitoring, you know, there's just going to be more and more self monitoring that one can do. And really, like you said, what we're doing is empowering the patient because they have the data and even though we ask, I'll ask patients all the time, how's your REM, how many hours or minutes are you getting your REM versus deep, what time of the night do you go to bed, all those details and heart rate variability, a whole nother thing we could talk about. But the deal is that patients like for me, myself, I've done tons of biohacking interventions, my PMF mat or my PMS mat. Yeah, I love, love, love. But what happened is what I would see is all of a sudden my deep sleep doubled. Or, you know, I intervene with it. I'm like, okay, this really works at least for me. And then I know it's a good thing because we can. Yeah, I think that's very, yeah, I think that's very empowering because you don't have to wait three months, six months a year to get your bloods done or whatever it is, you can actually monitor it yourself. So I think it's, we, as I said, we're getting to that another inflection point where people can really take more control over their health. Yeah. And so what would you say as far as supplements there are hundreds and hundreds of things we could recommend? Do you have the top, like three to five things that you would not want to be without or that you in patients feel like are some of the rope besides like maybe D, I mean D is a critical one. Yeah, no, I mean, there's a standard magnesium D for sure or whatever. But yeah, so once again, it depends on your genetics, but I see a lot of people with a SNP, a genetic variant where they have a deletion of an important enzyme in the liver, the GSTM1 deletion. So anyone with that, including myself, needs to be on sulforaphane. So I use sulforaphane a lot. I'm a huge fan of berberine for, you know, whether it's lowering sugar, anti-aging, I take NMN and recommend it a lot. I'm sure you've talked about NMN or N-R, Nicotinamoribus, that is a big one, but I actually like the NMN. I think NMR or N-R is still owned by one company, Chromedex, who makes Tunayagen. Exactly. Which is a great product, but NMN is just as good, I think, would you say? Yeah, I like it. There's a Swiss company that's now coming. I use their Elevent. I use their brand. I should actually hook you up with them. It's really fantastic. I mean, started by this crazy French millionaire who saw his father help, I'd say, just got so passionate about it. And he's doing all this research. He's got a lot of research. I should hook you up. I will follow up with an email after. Yeah, I use NMN. I use berberine. I use sulforaphane. And then coenzyme Q10. I take supplements according to my genetics. I have terrible genes. I take CoQ10. I take alphalipoic acid. I'm starting to use more and more the specialized pro-resolving mediators. Yes, love. This is SPMs for those of you listening. Yeah, SPMs as anti-inflammatories. I'm starting to use that more and more and more and more myself. So I think everything's sort of being taken to the next level. So it's very exciting. Now, it's interesting you mentioned SPMs because what I found with the pandemic, there's a massive increase in mast cell activation triggered by this virus and other infections. And those SPMs are antiprostic landon, which is really good when you have a mast cell issue or chronic pain inflammation. And again, we're seeing more and more cases. I don't know about you, but like long COVID is going to become more and more of an issue. Well, long COVID, I use SPMs all the time. I use SPMs, Corsiton was the other one I didn't mention. For long COVID, I use Corsiton, SPMs and NMN all the time. Those are part of the treatment. I mean, the whole histamine issue is very interesting. And the genetics come in there as well, because with the genetic testing, you can actually tell if they have a DA, if they're not actually breaking down the food properly, or they're not metabolized. The different genes will tell you where the histamine problem is. And most people think histamine is just this allergic response, but histamine overload or histamine response presents as inflammation in many ways. So that's been a real eye opener with the genetic testing, this whole histamine concept and understanding mast cells and what that actually means more. It really is. And I feel like we're at such a juncture in our culture, in our state of our world, because our toxic load is so much greater than it used to be that I feel like the pandemic was the perfect storm, right? We had this very aggressive and virulent virus, but we also had a weakened state of immune system for most of the world. So we were, I think, more susceptible than we would have been 50 or 40 years ago. And then the mast cells are just our primordial cells that kind of protect us from the environment. They're doing their job, right? But there's more things because there's more toxins, there's more infections. And I don't know about you, but I think mast cell activation types of syndromes have massively increased in the amount of people that we see them present in this toxic load. Any thoughts on toxicity? Because we talked about what we can add in, all these great tools, this great exercise of personalized medicine, but sometimes it's actually eliminating things. And I feel like starting there too can be a real game changer. What kinds of things are you seeing with toxic load in your patients? And any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think, you know, just to also get back to mast cell activation, I think a lot of that has to do with what's going on in the microbiome and the toxicity created by an altered microbiome and then damage to the gut lining and the metabolites going through the gut wall and overloading the liver with toxins. I think the gut microbiome, to me, is the area that I usually start with most people. Because most people, you know, whether you want to say we're doing a detox or they're toxic, whatever it is, I think starting with the microbiome and that will usually mean eliminating certain foods and putting them on some type of elimination diet, low histamine diet, whatever that yeast-free diet, they're all sort of similar. But putting them on some type of diet and then actually using antimicrobials like berberine and oregano oil, which actually help clear up the histamine. So they're not only antimicrobial, but they have histamine or histamine metabolizing effects. So, you know, when I first started using them, I just always assumed they were antimicrobials and they're working really well because they're antimicrobials. They are antimicrobials, but they also have histamine metabolizing effects, which, you know, just add another layer onto why they're so effective. Yeah, so crucial. And I think what people don't realize is we're talking like when I say toxins, people are probably thinking of heavy metals and parabens and phthalates and mold and all the things in our environment, chemicals galore. But we also have endotoxins, which are from inside out. So what you mentioned with the gut, if you have dysbiosis of fungal metabolites or bacterial metabolites or other types of organisms, overgrowth of E. coli or club C. l. These things absolutely contribute to toxic load from the inside out. So that's where berberine and oregano and some of these great herbs will decrease that load as they decrease that population inside. And I love the histamine. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think a lot of what I see anymore, often where I start off, is working on these endotoxins, because we talk about toxicity of these toxins coming from the outside, which are definitely real. And yes, we do have a detoxification system, which should theoretically take care of so many of these toxins, but we are overloaded. But it's just these endotoxins, the toxins created in our gut, which are actually a huge problem. And talking about the gut, something like SIBO has become the diagnosis du jour in Western medicine. They've realized that there's a problem of SIBO, not realizing that maybe sometimes it's funny that there's a SIFO or a fungal overgrowth. So they give this refactamine, which I'm not necessarily against refactamine, although it seems to have a temporary effect. People get better for a week or two or a month, and it comes back. But they're ignoring the other bugs, and in particular, the fungal, the SIFO, which will give you a more solid effect. So everything seems to be working together, but it's just interesting. Yeah, it's interesting what's happening. And I love what, because like you, I prefer, especially, I mean, herbs are going to treat multiple organisms and the overgrowth. Exactly. Mental nature. And I found in some of those cases that would have recurrence, patients can stay on them for quite a long time. Like berberine, I have people who are on that, you know, permanently. Me too. I take berberine every day now for more for an anti-aging effect and blood sugar effect. But I take berberine every now and I remember to take them. But, you know, the herbs also have an effect on, you know, sometimes some of these organisms develop biofilms around it. And we know what the antibiotics are. I don't think, as far as I can see, the refactamine doesn't necessarily work on these biofilms with these actual mixed herbs actually have an effect on the biofilms as well. So they're actually not only safer, but they're much better. They are. They're more effective. I could, well, and I don't know my history, but at 25, I had breast cancer a year later. I had Crohn's disease. So I became a, I had to learn the gut because I had to heal from Crohn's. And I consider myself, you know, in our Western training, we're both at medical doctors. I'm told that Crohn's is incurable. I am, I consider myself cured. I have zero evidence for the past 20 years of Crohn's. And it took going exactly where we're going is to the microbiome and completely rebalancing that and calming the inflammatory response because Crohn's it's another gene, NOD2, and there's a few others, but it's just an abnormal response to a normal microbiome. So I had an exaggerated response and that damaged my gut, but I'm considered cured of Crohn's. And in our Western world, as far as our training, that's considered almost impossible. Right. Yeah. Actually, I often see Crohn's, I often see fungus or yeast in Crohn's. To me, someone has Crohn's, it's, you know, yeast until proved otherwise. I mean, obviously it's more complicated. Because there's so many docs who don't run just I completely agree in my own case was completely decreasing that fungal burden. Absolutely. And you think about the IBD panel we do on lab core quest journey, major lab, it's all anti carbohydrate antibodies. It's anti saccharomyces antibodies and anti-manuside antibodies. They're all yeast cell body parts. Right. So we're testing for the aggressiveness of Crohn's by checking for antibodies to fungal components. Right. I couldn't agree more. And again, I think docs are starting, most of our colleagues are doing this, but it's amazing to me how long it's taken some, you know, camps to really understand how much the microbiome affects all disease, especially auto immunity. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's, you know, I see so much, you know, what happens people tend to come see you with, you know, I'd say 90% of my patients now people are coming because they have some autoimmune problem or some gut problem. And most autoimmune problems I see not everyone, but most of them start off with a gut problem. And most of those problems are people are young kids who got given too many antibiotics as kids. I mean, I'm seeing so much of that overuse of antibiotics, microbiome issues, eventually leading to autoimmune issues. I mean, that is probably one of the commonest patterns I see in my practice. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And as I'm sure as you do, even if the patient is, you know, 85 years old, I'll say, where were you born? What was your birth like? Were you vaginal or C-section breast or bottle bed? Because those things actually matter, lifelong with your diversity of your microbiome. Yeah. Refund. Wow. So we have already covered a lot. I was just thinking right next to me, I got a show for listeners because I've never shown this before and I happen to have it. This is my pills. I have the same thing. I just put in a, I take probably you're the first person I've seen it takes as many as me. But that's what I was going to say. People like, because the patients all the time will say, Dr. Gill, that's a lot. And I always try to meet them where they're at. So if they can only take 10, but I always say, okay, just look what I take. This is twice a day sometimes, you know. Yeah. I do that once a day. I can't do it. I should show my wife she can't believe someone else would take as many pills as I do. And I can kind of take them as a handful too. So I'm, yeah, I just, I'll take them all when I have my first meal after lunch or whatever it is. Yeah. What do you think is the biggest thing? And first of all, before I say that question, I just had another, you talked a little about your journey of you conventionally trained and then Eastern medicine. And what was the, was there an aha moment where you realized, gosh, there's, because I love my conventional training. I think we've got some of the best education in the world. But I think it's like, we have a bigger toolbox now. And I still, I feel like the best of both worlds is where the, the real truth lies. What was your moment of like, really did you like where you found functional medicine? And was there a moment of epiphany for you? Or was it a gradual thing? Well, my first exposure when, when I stood in South Africa is exposed to traditional healers when I was working as a student and then an intern in the hospitals in South Africa. And I was working in the biggest hospital in South Africa. Then it was during apartheid. So everything was separate. So he's working in the, the, the biggest hospital in Africa at the time. I don't know if it still is maybe. And when we couldn't help the patients, the family used to call in their traditional healer. And I noticed sometimes that sometimes the patients got better. It didn't make any sense to me because I really believed in Western medicine, but that sort of started opening up my mind. And then I got exposed to them again when I went to work in the bush. Same thing I saw. So that sort of piqued my interest more. And then when I came to work in a private practice afterwards, when I just finished my training in Johannesburg and people were coming in and, you know, they had these common chronic symptoms. They were tired and they couldn't poop in their headaches, had headaches and I couldn't help them with the Western medicine. And they just happened to be the same patients. It was like the hip practice in Johannesburg at the time they were seeing. There was one acupuncturist. They were seeing homeopaths. They were coming to me and I noticed that the homeopath and the acupuncturist was actually helping these patients that I couldn't help. So that was sort of my first awareness of all of this. And then the second big, a higher thing for me was when I came to the States, I had to do a residency in New York to get a license in New York. So I happened to get a job who sponsored me for a green card in the South Bronx. And I started doing a residency there and I wasn't, you know, I hated the medicine in America because it was, you didn't have to take a good history like we did in South Africa or examine a patient. There's all about, you know, reading up about whatever the problem was and presenting the next day. So there was no patient-doctor relationship. And so during my residency, because I was disillusioned, I'd heard about an acupuncture clinic that was attached to the hospital that was doing drug detox. So I went to check that out and fell in love with acupuncture. So that's a long story short. During my residency, I was going to the acupuncture clinic after hours and I saw that the acupuncture, Chinese medicine clinic was helping patients who had back pain and headaches and couldn't prove the same type of problems that we weren't helping in the hospital. We were helping acutely ill patients with, you know, heart attacks and pneumonias and broken legs. So it was pretty obvious to me that the future of medicine would be some combination of these two because they both were good at what they were good at, but not particularly good at what they weren't good at. So it's just so obvious that the future would be a combination. So that's sort of how it happened. Oh, I love that. I'm so glad that you told your story because really, truly that what I heard was this common theme and I think any of us who are in personalized precision, functional medicine, whatever we're going to call it, bringing these best of both worlds together is the curiosity, right? Like there's this curiosity of like, what else is possible or just the observation, the power of observing things that maybe we weren't trained in or didn't know about in our conventional training, but we're like, there's something there that's interesting, getting curious and learning more. And I've done that same thing. And I'm sure you in clinical practice, just like we're talking about biohacking, often it's like this, like, well, let's try this as long as it's safe. And then don't you sometimes see these things in your practice? I can't believe they've come back to me and say, I'm better. I'm like, really? Tell me more. No, no, that's what happened. I mean, that's how I got into biohacking from my patients telling me that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Well, I am so glad for your time today. I am like honored to talk to you and to have you here. What would you say as far as do you feel like some of the biggest changes or things that we've discovered in the last five to 10 years, most important things that have affected your practice or your treating of patients? Well, I think, well, I don't know what the five things. I would say sleep. I mean, all the basic things we talk about, I mean, I have seen incredible changes to people's blood biomarkers with fasting. I think fasting is so powerful. The changes that we see with people's bloods and fairly quickly. So I think fasting is probably one of them. And sleep, like you said, we can't talk enough about it. Yeah, it's hard to sort of pinpoint, but obviously sleep seems to make a big difference. Yeah, what else can I say? I mean, I think that the genetic thing is, to me, has been a game changer because you can really personalize someone's treatment. Not everyone wants to take 50 supplements a day like us, so you can really target someone's treatment. And I think it's very powerful. Yeah. I do too. I think we actually simplify. Like you said, some of these things now I have a lot of genetic issues too. So that's part of that. But I think you're right. You can actually target and simplify because not everybody needs as high a dose as D as I do. Right, exactly. Well, it is an absolute pleasure talking to you, Dr. Lipman. And where can people find you if they want to know more or purchase your books? Yeah, just go to drfranklipman.com, drfranklipman.com. And then I'm also now chief medical officer or part of this startup. I'm just doing the part of the medical office. It's called joinhardt.com, which is sort of joinhardt, like H-E-A-R-T-Y. And it's a group that's actually doing genetic testing, blood biomarkers, and then wearables. And they've created an app. Beta testing now, where the app is you have an app where you can actually monitor all of this yourself all in one place. And you own all your own data, which is really interesting. That's rare now too, because all the companies are selling it. Exactly. So it's a very cool company. We should speak to you because we're going to need, you know, at the moment it's happening in New York, we're going to be spreading out. But to me, that's the future of medicine. You can do it all from your own home. It's fantastic. Gosh, I couldn't agree more. And what you're talking about is empowering our patients so that they can understand and own their data and make the decisions that are best for them. And I think our world is changing, where I mean, we're still a guide and often the tough cases come see us. But the more we can get our patients to be their own physician, how cool is that? That's amazing. Exactly. Love it. Well, thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you, Joe. Lovely chatting to you.