 Hey, Carolyn. Hey, how you done? Good. Just got back from vacation. Oh Where were you? At home. Oh Okay, because you said you just got back. It sounded like you were I wouldn't go anywhere when Josh. I just yeah, you some there are like safe ways of like a little You go camp out on a glacier or something Yeah, I'm good. All I need is my house and some cats So a staycation. They're really nice too. I think it'll be staycations for the rest of my life Boarding the cats is way too much of a pain Welcome to SIG contributor strategy contributor growth working group April 27th 2021 It's all friendly faces here. Would y'all like to shall we start? I don't know if anyone else was playing on showing up today heard it and then just Summarize whatever if someone does join it, right? Yeah, sounds great First on our agenda is the community crm Uh, cathan, do you have any updates on that? Yeah, so I did post in the slack channel Uh, that we could get some people like do so the question's like so we have people were interested What at least one person and then I know we could get more people But the question is before we start organizing it is like What like where would we do it? Would it be you know, like the what's it called the circle? Um, or something else, you know, like where where would we Have that person or the panel kind of Personally, I don't think it fits the maintainer circle format Um, I think we're just kind of picking that because we already have that standing meeting but I don't really think it's the same thing Um, I don't know how you feel about that josh But I think it would be relevant, but uh, really the person to ask would be Paris Yeah, because I think she has a schedule for these things. Well, I hope she has a schedule for them There's been a little bit of confusion on that If not, then What I would say is we do it for Some other time slot and then try to advertise it to people Yeah Do you have a meeting with her or somewhere you get like some FaceTime? Nope Now so just ping her on slack. Yeah Nice to have you here Hey guys. Hey. Hey Is this your first time at this meeting would you like to introduce yourself? It is sure. Yeah, I actually didn't realize this was the Contributor contributor growth working group. Um, there's a couple of working groups that I think are intriguing and doing What I can tell fine work And so My name is Lee We're a few different hats in the ecosystem but And today I'm wearing my Docker captain's um coat. I guess I guess that's the hat that I'm wearing the coat today. That's what I'm doing I don't mean to be coy or anything. I just Am into a lot of things Great. No, we're happy to have you here. Was there anything specific you wanted to talk about today? Otherwise, we're just going to run through the agenda and you can speak up. I'm curious about I'll be quite like the Community CRM. That's interesting the project specific ambassador program. That's great I think that Ambassador programs are or you know, I'll withhold opinion to you guys. Um, get there But the contributor ladder Template that's perfect. I'd love to see is that is there like, um Yeah, let me have the links for that That should get merged today But here's the PR for now So Catherine for the CRM talk, it's also give one person interested maybe could get another Um, what's the format we were thinking of? Well, that's why I didn't I didn't want to Start recruiting more people before we know. So there is one person definitely interested And he's also working or helping with the CRM runbook. Uh, just because like he's been using both CRMs extensively so much has much more knowledge than than I have, um and Yeah, so the question is like, what do we want? Right? Like I think like if we One of the ideas was like having one person speak about it make like a kind of a little Demo just to show a little bit like how these tools work and then like Say how they are using it. We could have several people I think like a little demo would be nice. It doesn't like not like a product But like show a little bit kind of like these are like graphs So people have kind of an idea of what it is without being like a deep dive into the tool Um, but I think it would also be useful to have maybe different Uh projects that are very that have different Um Requirements or different Focuses right just because they're probably using it differently and just to see like, okay I'm using it this way and we're using it that way like kind of have a little bit of that discussion because maybe Whatever he's using is not necessarily What apply so that's why I thought maybe like a panel would be A good it's not a panel. It's like a group discussion, right? It's not like yeah, so I know I mean If you can't call it a panel because that's how we It's easy. Yeah He's in here in my notes. Don't worry about it. Um I really like the idea of instead of showing The tool and what it does. I'm really interested in hearing How people use it and what they're they're doing with it when they're hoping to do with it and like Any value they've seen out of it? Um Because I think if you just show me what I mean very selfish If you show me what I can do with the tool. I may not connect the dots. It's really a lot more helpful to hear about The interaction from github or from slack or whatever and then How you would use the tool over time and with various interactions Maybe a demo would be the next step like depending of how interested people are versus like the triggers like oh We have these tools they exist. This is how like different projects use it Right and then like at the end of this like at the end We can say like oh like like depending on how many people show up like how much interest there is And if you know if people are really keen on seeing something we can schedule something else just depending on on the actual Uh interest right like yeah, I think that would be really good. I'm interested in this Uh, you want to chat about the run book? I I haven't seen this yet Yeah, I mean It's yeah, it's just like what like tips. So so I tried to make it agnostic um Why is it keyword based? It's weird. I don't know. Uh, so I tried to make it more agnostic Which makes it a little bit more difficult because different Tools have like oh this section in this section. So it's it's uh kind of a little More difficult, but basically it's like, okay It makes sense to set this up use like have these types of tags Or this is how because they both of them have tags I see all of them will have tags because it's like something that makes a lot of sense These are the tags that you can use and like And then uh, basically, okay, like these are like recommended activities daily weekly monthly, right? Like daily like if if you're tagged, you know Tracks if you can add tasks to it like you can look at what your cat like just track your tasks, right? Like if you have anything um, check out who is active um Then I don't know like all of these tools have they like because they pull information from their resources You will have double uh pro like double profiles, right? So they kind of suggest mergers. So you have to keep that clean. So you should be there probably on a weekly basis uh, check out the contributions Who is the most active? Maybe that's someone you want to kind of recognize Some of them like or actually orbit has like these high reach members like people who have like a big um, what's it called twitter like twitter following So if you see someone who's active, it's like, oh, is that someone I should kind of You know try to connect with if they sometimes it's just a reporter or someone who Tweeted about you, but maybe it's someone who actually did something a little bit more meaningful, right? And then uh, yeah, when you're interacting with members like you should kind of Everyone kind of says like you have to do the best things like keep a lot of notes, right? So, uh Because we know like whoever kind of manages the community They may leave people have different jobs and you want that knowledge to be somewhere, right? So make notes so our people know so basically that's kind of more or less Yeah Does does it would it belong in the runbook to say maybe at the very beginning? um Just what value a project could get out of a CRM and maybe what size community you You should have before it even makes sense to use it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think like, um Yeah, we can add that in the intro so right now there is nothing so maybe just like Yeah, oh, okay. Sorry. I missed you a lot to do there Yeah, okay This looks good um Was there any feedback you needed from us right now or are you just letting us know that you're working on it? Yeah, I wanted Uh, the guy I was working with uh, Odysseus. Um, just to have a look at it before so I sent it to him but like he is in Greece so like he wanted to actually join one of these meetings, but it's really late. He was like, oh gosh. Yeah, so, um so I yeah, had like the more uh CRM specific I tried to make it agnostic and he hasn't looked at it yet because I just did it yesterday to Kind of be able to share it with so he hasn't looked at it yet. So I think I wanted him to have a look at it and then I think if he is happy with it I would just submit a PR and then maybe have it there and then you know share in the slack channels of these tools and have other users say like look at it and and and contribute. Hopefully they'll They'll want to they'll have an opinion and add to it Okay sounds good Was there anything else? What's community serums before we move on to the ambassador program? Um, no, I think I didn't have anything Are you the did you add this to the agenda? Was that Josh? Oh, okay So I was thinking uh, so I think like I mean like if we have the runbook and everything that's pretty I think it's pretty close to completion that people think it's happy. So as a next project I would love to kind of find out if so we're kind of a lot like talking a lot about how to um I love yeah Encourage people and users to tell their story, right? We had like the last time we had I told you about the hero program and so on But we wanted to do something that's a little bit more Uh exclusive a little bit more like the docker um captain program or something So maybe kind of creating a framework for that And then the question is like is there a way that this could fit into this The cntf right kind of like saying, okay um Okay, here is like how it could look like and uh, like like the cntf the linux foundation is issuing the badges like have something that kind of links it to the cntf if they kind of like You know the the program or something that would be something that I would really Kind of be interested in exploring. So the cntf has ambassadors right now Yeah, but that would be project specific, right? So it's like like helm ambassadors or kubernetes. Yeah, kubernetes have ambassadors Captains something No, we have the cntf ambassador program The um, but there's nothing specifically for kubernetes Um, mostly because most of the cntf ambassador program is kubernetes people. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, this would be something that is a little bit more Let's say Controlled by the projects, right? Like you kind of know Okay, these people have been very active. They know because like the cntf cannot know, you know, like, I mean they and a lot of the so the cntf Ambassador is very broad because like there are so many projects, right? But like some people are like super Active and and like we have a few that like really especially with the hero program They got like one of them got really excited and is like giving talks all the time And I would like to give him like something make something a little special, you know, not like And He is basically a linker d expert right now, right? So Not a cntcf kind of expert So because we're talking about this at the cntf level though as part of the sig What's the goal is the goal to It would be to work with the cntf to allow people to make badges for their projects That's something we can do anyways, right? It's like maybe like, I don't know if we it would make sense to have it Under the ambassador the cntcf ambassador program have like, okay I must you know, like I'm also like, I don't know if to have like a specialized thing to say like, oh, we're you know Yeah, Catherine. That's what I was going to suggest as well is that I mean don't This is commentary from the side. So don't uh, you know, don't let this Um, hopefully this encourages you but yeah that you might find success and first of all say as a Josh are you in the ambassador program? cntcf. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Um, I I'm not sure I would use the cntcf ambassador program as a template for anything Yeah, that's what's gonna. It's been a little chaotic. It's yeah, it's Yeah, good. That's exactly why I asked josh if I could so so I'm not talking about the ambassador program behind its back And josh, you know, I guess I'll leave it at chaotic. I would add a few other adjectives. Um, but uh Having said that it is developing and coming along and developing and coming along and and one of the ways to Catherine to potentially identify you know uplift To templatize the program that you that linkardy is initiated around heroes is his potentially Facilitate the assignment of badges to cntcf ambassadors with special with acknowledgement of specialized knowledge for a project and perhaps that the projects tie into that is um, the Sanctification of whether or not that individual that ambassador does Qualifies to that badge and I don't mean like necessarily taking a test, but I just mean the plus ones from The the project itself so the Or or nominations from the project such that like it may be an alternative way of people entering into the cntcf ambassador program is via um given it is to the point that it is it might be viable to change the entrance into becoming an ambassador as Via a project like through a project nominating that person saying You know, we we consider that they've that they're real That they do a lot of advocacy for into this project Yeah, I but I really also like the idea that this should be part of the cntcf ambassador program um, I mean for a couple of reasons one is Particularly when we're back to doing things in person We want whoever's participating in these things to be eligible for cntcf swag as well Because the one thing that we do have for the cntcf ambassadors is sort of a swag pipeline Second also because There's going to be people who are only enthusiasts about one project But there's also going to be a bunch of people who are into multiple projects and they're just like outgoing And and it makes sense for those people to sort of have cntcf wide representation um the um so Um, you know because part of I'm thinking about this is is one of the things that's standard as part of an ambassador program For example is getting a swag pack and The it'll get be easier for like incubating and beyond projects will be easier to get cntcf To underwrite that if it's part of their own ambassador program The um And yeah, having with the cntcf ambassador program having people have like badges that say which projects they actually have expertise on Um would honestly be a good thing. It would make the ambassadors more of a resource Yeah Do you know who runs the cntcf ambassador program right now? Well, you see there's the problem Amy runs it in her ample spare time. Okay Um, they they have never had a dedicated person for the ambassador program and that's why it has always been a little bit chaotic Well, I just meant if we wanted to have it be associated with the cntcf ambassadors, then we should talk to Amy Yeah, and particularly I would say um, they have a monthly semi monthly um project um Project asks call on wednesday mornings Um, I forget what exactly it's called um They might be skipping this month because of kubcon, but there's They have a call that's like Amy and your four projects that need things And I would say that would be a very appropriate topic for the maintainer monthly call But if you have to wait too long, no, this is something else Between the cntcf and ambassadors no, uh cntcf and I can't easily find the name of it because I don't um know the exact schedule and the schedule is weird this month because of kubcon Because I just got an email about the regularly scheduled um You know me touch point with the cntcf Yeah from my project. I was just curious if you meant that No, no, that's that's separate. Um I'm just saying if there isn't one of these on The schedule soon, then it would make more sense to just go ahead and ask Okay, I'm not clear on what meeting it is. So if you yeah Do you want to coordinate with Amy about When we could talk about it or Catherine yeah, I mean the other thing to do would actually be talk about it. There's an ambassador's call this week Um, if somebody wants to bring it up in the ambassador call, unfortunately I have schedule conflicts for the ambassador called this week. So I will not be the one to bring it up But there is ambassador call Wait, is that tomorrow that is not tomorrow? Or not tomorrow, sorry thursday Oh, I'm completely out of pocket And 3 p.m. Pacific on thursday. So that would be the other place to bring it up Assuming you want to right? This is this is a linker d thing. So you would honestly be the one to bring it up Since since you're one of the ones who actually already has the linker d heroes as opposed to talking about it in a theoretical sense yeah, well So this is not necessarily uh, the hero program the hero program is like oh like you get like something because you were This month you were you know, like you're really active. So that's like a one thing This is really something that's supposed to be a little bit more exclusive, right? So it's like, okay someone who's continuously talking They are like doing all these different talks and it's like you want to kind of so it's like something a little bit Special it's not like oh you did like this great talk and it got lots of attention and this is awesome So it's a little so we wanted to have So it's an addition we're kind of concept. I'm trying to conceptualize this New program that is maybe like people who are heroes at some point if they continue to Tell the story and then they could kind of you know Become an ambassador or whatever we want to call it So it's one step up. It would be like maybe a letter for the For the that kind of thing right without being it in the official controversial letter Okay, so just make sure I've captured Who's gonna follow up on this Catherine? Will you either go to that meeting or Talk to Amy. Okay, good But can you when is that I I don't think I got the details of when the meeting is Oh, right because you're not you're not an ambassador, right? Yeah Got it. Okay, and I'm of course not going to be at the meeting this week. So Um, uh, maybe I better just start a chat with you and Amy Okay, otherwise this is complicated Every really helpful. Thanks. Yeah So is there anything else we want to chat about the program before I move on to the website No, I think this is like a good start to start the conversation with how to Put it under the cncf umbrella because that would be ideal I'm also going to interview two very active users to find out like what would you Value what is kind of like to and that would be kind of like to create this benefit So and I would be basically the template right like here I think I interviewed someone from the docker captain program and kind of found something and Ask him like what do you what is really appealing to you just to understand why what the motivation is And then if we can create that little package and then that would become the template, right? But then it would be ideal once we have that that it kind of Somehow is associated because it gives it more rather times, right if it's not a project It's like and how exactly it would live but it definitely would be if it is a cncf thing Oh, no, definitely. Definitely. That's a different level of recognition. Yeah So next up the website It has been merged I have found the drafts And the trick with the drafts is that Very simply we need two sites To like you distinct URLs that we can go to So that on one of them we can render all the drafts and you'll be able to go to the pages and see them and on The live site which would be like contribute that cncf.io you would only see Um Things that the toc has approved to be live So what I was thinking is so right now we have It's called like cncf contribute dot natlify dot app. This is just where Um, it's like the sneaky way to get at the site right now until it's live But we could have something similar to this um Called like oh, that's fun staging or whatever drafts something that they would have like a natlify URL Obviously we could put a A domain name to it as well if we want to ask the cncf to do that But we could always just have a sneaky backdoor that's And this would have the drafts So we want to point people and say this is what we're working on Or if we want the toc to look at something and not have them looking at raw markdown That's what they could look at Uh, and then this would be the live site no drafts If this sounds good to people I can work on that this week Okay Makes sense Yeah Otherwise the way to see drafts is you run Uh the build locally um You type mage preview Um We type that in um Actually, yeah, that's even easier if you have go you can just preview it It does use docker so you would need docker as well The contributing guide explains how to do this So that that should help us with the drafts because right now it's terribly unhelpful Do you think they're gonna be live by coupon? It's next week The glass so the site's there all that we would need to do to go live is update the dns And then wait, you know because it propagates. Um, but I don't know Josh what Like are we approved yet? I saw So I'd say something that looks good Yeah Um In a github issue they commented on it. Oh, yeah, okay Uh If we got approval from sod, yeah, the problem was that we had kind of oral approval. Yeah um Where is the issue because Yeah, because I opened that issue specifically because we needed something we could point to For yeah, I don't I don't if you have the URL that'd be helpful. I don't I don't either I I remember I filed it in some weird obscure cncf repo What wasn't in this told me to put it, but I don't remember where that is but it's not the tsc one No Maybe maybe it was the contribute project Let's see I mean, okay, let's see. We got Is it this one? Oh, yeah, there we are. Okay. We got an approval from sod Yeah I think we'll point to that as being good enough. Okay Uh, okay here. We have the written approval. Can you create the service desk ticket for that? Um, I can only create tickets for Porter, but not for a sig ready Okay previous tickets away. There we go. Oh, so I have not created one yet Okay But you can open one for the sake Yep Yeah, that was a problem earlier because they assigned you to projects by default And I had several sort of general requests that were being assigned to a project. So yeah You know what you need to have them point the c name to Uh, I think I texted it all to you in slack, but um, it's it's how long ago was that About two weeks ago now, but it's this right here This is what we need a c name for contribute that cncf.io To go to that Can you just paste that To our notes for the notes? Okay. Yeah, sorry. I just got Notes are better than slack Yeah, anyway, so I will get that filed Yeah, the one the one danger there is that it being the week before kubcon We may not be able to get anything that's not an emergency done So Because I know how much cncf staff time this absorbs Okay Oh, we'll do our best, you know, yep Um I reviewed the contributor ladder ladder template Yeah, I found some it it doesn't write format, right? So I submitted you some suggestion changes that fix the markdown formatting Um, but once that that's updated then um, I can merge it today So we'll have This ready for our talk I see all the formatting stuff Um It really minor changes. Yeah, who knew indentation was significant and marked down It's like, yeah, well Is it damn? Yeah, yeah, I I didn't know that either but when I clicked Like preview on the file that's when I could see it all, you know uh So otherwise our talk is wednesday may 5th And depending on your time zone super early or Scary early or scary early. I'm definitely in the scary early camp Yeah, you know, this is the time that I am so glad that our talks are pre-recorded Oh, god, I actually had to do the talk live during that time slot. Oh, I wouldn't have submitted I would never submit for a 4 a.m. Talk contributors. Yay Yeah Yeah, um Yeah, that's gonna be brutal the I actually have new soundproofing on order from the amazon right now so I can actually put some soundproofing up in my office this weekend Um, so is there anything else we need to do Be ready for obviously, you know as speakers will show up early and and hang around later But is there anything else we need to coordinate in time for the talk Wait, where are we in the contributor framework thing? It's still in draft okay They're all merged But they're not visible on the site right now Yeah They would need to be approved and then we can flip them out of draft. Yeah Okay Alternatively, I'm just gonna put this out here and you can tell me no Instead of having drafts hide You know on the site they can show up but have Some it'll just say something at the top. I can do some styling so that They're just listed as a draft and not formally approved by the TSE I'm not sure How important it is to absolutely not show draft material on the site versus You know, we really don't want to show draft material on site because people won't differentiate Okay, great. I just want to make sure Yeah Yeah Is it ready to have sod look at it? Catherine are we ready to ask the TSE to approve the contributor framework guide or is there more pending? I think so Yeah At least I didn't have anything on my I think some people wanted to we did discuss to add like what did we want it to like some But that's like something that we can add later on right like like a wrap up or like five things to like there were like some ideas But I didn't know how to so so What what is the best way in general that we want to ask someone from TSE to review material that we have That's like ready for approval. I know we I added a label in GitHub for the issues So like one thing we could do for example is we could take it out of draft submit a PR That would make the content go live and then just You know add that label and then ask someone from the TSE to approve it and when they approve it, it'll get merged and immediately go live The nice thing with that is we don't need the staging site or anything to do that We could do that like Right now if we wanted to I I I don't want to put anything in the way of potentially getting the website flipped on By like adding new content Trying to add new content this week as well and get it through I mean Yeah, so in general though, but yeah in general as a procedure where we remove the draft flag We submit that as a PR and then we tag sod or whoever else our second person is to approve it In general, Alana is the other person Who's the other one we got sod and Alana who's last with an eastern european last name. I don't know how to pronounce They just want that right I don't think I've met Alana um I think it's It's spelled a l e and n a but let me look it up The um a l e n a went in a l e and a yes, okay Okay, so after kubecon I'll submit a PR um moving from draft And tag them for review. Okay Yeah, I mean we could submit before then I just don't want it to potentially hang up getting the website live because stuff is pending so What's I was gonna We we can do it right after they flip the website to live if that happens to be earlier rather than later Okay, no distractions That's all I had was there anything else we need to talk about before we go No, it's about it and I filed the text support ticket. So the So we're all set there. Yeah, I just like I'm looking out because I remember in the fall C and cf staff were just not available for anything non-emergency. So it might get delayed sure. That's understandable But we can hope yeah All right, everybody. Thanks so much for coming today. Really appreciate it. Have a good week. Bye