 I'm going to get to talk about one of my very favorite people. Yes. Sir, how are you today? Yes, fine. I'll tell you very briefly what the series is all about. I'm sorry, you've got to put up with a frankly ancient BBC setup. Do you mind? Yeah, I was just wondering about the two mics here. One's for you and one's for me. All right. Eventually, it will be six programs. This is not sure. Go out starting in May. So the time thing is, you know, things are happening. Things that are happening today happen three months ago. And we imagine most of the things that you will want to talk about will go into the international program. Obviously, it's marvellous box office for us. And so we will have you right up at the top and almost certainly in the last one as well. And it's just a conversation. We'll just take it and see. All right. Ready? Margaret Thatcher was the first NATO government leader, I think, to come to Washington, to visit you after you became president. She came, I think, in February 1981. And people saw that as a symbol of your great closeness. Were they right about that? Well, yes, we had known each other for quite some time. As a matter of fact, I was still governor of California. And she was not yet prime minister, but had become head of the conservative party when I first met her on a visit that I had made to London. And we found ourselves in great agreement about a number of things that had to do with international situation. And I was very pleased and honored to have her here as the first of our close allies, the NATO allies, head of state. And I think it was symbolic of not only a personal relationship that had been established, but also the one of a relationship that exists between our two great nations. What were the particular personal qualities you saw in her when you first met her as governor of California? Well, first of all, the wealth of information she had on so many subjects. She was extremely well-informed, but she was firm, decisive. She had targets in mind of where we should be going, and as I said, I was just greatly impressed. Now, I know that there were some people at the time conversationally when I mentioned how well I thought of her. While I was still in London, there were some people who couldn't quite get used to the idea of a woman as prime minister. And I doubt if there are many of those around anymore. Absolutely. You were seen, both of you, as the leaders, really, of a conservative revolution on each side of the Atlantic. Was her having started this in Britain before you had the chance to start it here? Was that helpful? Was that important to you? Yes, very much so. Yes, I think it was an international happening that there was a reaction worldwide about her becoming prime minister. You mentioned her as a woman, and that obviously was of great importance in Britain. But at international gatherings, very male-dominated gatherings, the summits and so forth, how does that one woman stand out? Does it matter she's a woman? She is a great prime minister, not because she's a woman, but because of what she knows, what she does, and her insight into the right answers for the problems confronting us. And I have never seen in any of our NATO meetings or summit meetings any lack of respect and recognition of her stature because she is a woman. You've spoken of her as an ally, but she's also been an opponent at times, hasn't she? She's had disagreements with you. Is she a formidable opponent? Well, let me just say this, that I don't think any of the disagreements have survived as disagreements once we could talk to each other. Some of them have been the result of distance and not having heard the entire story and what it is told and everything is just fine. But I know someone has asked me once about her as a negotiator. Fortunately, we haven't had to negotiate. She would be most formidable on the other side of a negotiating table. But something like the Grenada event where there was a very clear difference after you had supported her over the Falklands was all feeling, I think, in America that she should have supported Washington over Grenada. At the time, was that a hurtful event? Yes, and it was unfortunate at the time but my situation was not one of lack of trust in her or on your side of the ocean, but in the city of ours, Washington, the walls seemed to have ears and I felt that it was so important in the limited time that we had to plan and move. Just a few days involved from the decision to actually the troops on their way, I was so fearful of a leak from our side that I just put it on close hold because there were so many lives involved. And the minute we could, I explained that to her and that's what our situation had been and why I had made the decision I made. How would you assess her performance over the Falklands, her performance as a leader? What could have been improved? I think she was faced with a very grim necessity. I knew something of that. I had spent 45 minutes myself on the phone with the then president of Argentina trying to persuade him that they should not be moving as they were and I didn't get any place. So I know that efforts were made to resolve that peacefully if possible not only by trying to put an order but on the part of your own government. And I think it was well handled but I think it also was the result of her ability at decision and firm action. Do you think that the conservative revolution which you've both presided over which we mentioned before is one which is going to last? Do you see it as having changed these two countries for the foreseeable future? I have to believe that it will because I think probably both of our countries had gone through a period in which in some ways we lost faith in our own people and we began to turn back to government doing everything and government being looked to for things that properly belonged out with the people and at the private sector. And I think there has been a recognition of that. I haven't been calling it conservatism so much anymore as common sense. And yes, I think that we have made a turn and that it will be a long time and I hope never before people see themselves reverting to this statism and this belief that government must take over and do everything. And does it help the special relationship between our two countries which you referred to that you happen to have two leaders who are like-minded? I mean you might not have, we might have a socialist. Would the special relationship survive that? I'm quite sure that the bonds between our two countries would survive any changes in leadership in these two countries. But I think that it is helpful that with the world economy so linked as it is, so internationalized, I think that with what has been a worldwide recession for example, I think that the working together and seeing more or less eye to eye between our countries, and this goes for our other allies in Europe also and elsewhere in the world, I think it is most helpful, beneficial. Just going back finally to Mrs. Thatcher herself personally, in our country she's often thought of as somebody who lacks a sense of fun, a sense of humor. Now you've visited with her frequently on both sides of the Atlantic. I mean have you had any particular memories of her character as it were, perhaps the sense of humor she might have? Yes, and she does. And I have seen her at the table in the summit meetings as just one of the seven, and I have seen her presiding at the meeting and her great good humor. And as I say, her cutting through to the vital points, I'm being a little reluctant here about telling something, and I hope it won't be tactless of me if I tell it. But when we had the summit meeting here in our country at Williamsburg, which as you know has been restored as the original colony that it was, and the first meeting was an evening meeting, dinner to open the whole session, and it took place in what had been the British colonial governor's mansion. And I couldn't resist. I was all prepared that when we sat down that I was going to suggest that had one of her predecessors been a little more clever, she might be hosting that gathering. And so we sat, there was a moment of quiet before conversation broke out, and I said, Margaret, if one of your predecessors had been a little more clever, she said, I know I would have been hosting this gathering. I never got to finish my line. Mr. President, thank you very much indeed. My pleasure. Is that all right? Wonderful. That's enough. Let's come on. When you say I may be about to see a little tact, let's guess everyone. I can't remember the story that I once heard over there about the library in London, and he hadn't been able to find a certain book about the United States, and he found it under the library for help. And she said, if you look under comedy, it's a book. Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Goodbye. Goodbye. Thank you, Mr. President.