 Hello everybody. This is Ray Dogum here. This is the Hyperledger Healthcare Special Interest Group meeting for February 1st and I am just displaying here the anti-trust policy notice. A little bit of housekeeping before we get started. The Linux Foundation meeting involved participation by industry competitors and it is the intention of the Linux Foundation to conduct all that's activities in accordance with applicable anti-trust and competition laws. Basically it's important for everyone to make sure they don't say anything that is prohibited by law under the anti-trust policies and yeah so this more details can be found in this link linuxfoundation.org slash anti-trust policy. Yeah so again welcome everyone this is a Hyperledger community so everyone here is welcome it is an open community you can view the full Hyperledger code of conduct by searching it as well and just for everyone's awareness Hyperledger sponsors members are all here listed you have premier members and general members listed so your company might be listed and you might not even know it so hopefully we'll continue to gain more members into our community here and if you haven't been involved in an open source project before it could be intimidating to start some tips to get comfortable feel free to lurk you know check out what others are doing on the wiki pages and communication channels as well I don't wait for an invitation to use the tools available ask questions introduce yourselves and share ideas and please do read the code of conduct because we do we do try to set a high standard for professionalism in these meetings and conversations that being said I would like to jump over to our agenda for the day and we have here uh see four participants Asha Erika and um so I believe Doug is on as well so thank you guys for joining very much and uh before we get started would anyone like to introduce yourselves maybe if you haven't already otherwise we can get started okay anyone have any community announcements they'd like to share with the group all right so I just noticed I didn't turn on my video as well let me go ahead and do that so in terms of upcoming events related to healthcare and blockchain there's a European blockchain convention happening February 15th through the 17th in Spain in Barcelona in March 20 to 24th Paris blockchain week is happening March 26 to the 29th we have Vive 2023 in Nashville April 17th through the 21st is HIMS which is one of the largest healthcare information technology events like over 20 or 30,000 people typically uh April 26 to the 28th is Consensus 2023 in Austin what was a interesting event there in May 18th through the 20th bitcoin 2023 in Miami is happening and then in September 2023 con v2x global blockchain healthcare is happening in New Orleans um if you have any other events going on please feel free to add comment here in the agenda or on your youtube page for others to be aware of yeah I just wanted to add that February 24th to early March is East Denver in Denver yes East Denver how can I miss that not necessarily healthcare related but last time I was there there was some people doing some healthcare stuff and there was over 15,000 people last year what were the dates again I can look it up February 24th I think to March 6th I'll double right I think the core event is like the beginning of March thanks for sharing that yeah I made the link as well for others are you going this here Erica I am yeah nice awesome all right so moving on to some industry news articles there's a lot here so we might be moving pretty fast if you have any comments feel free to jump in I think there's going to be some interesting potential discussion here so I'm excited for you guys to you know participate so this is in no particular order the first one here is more medical schools withdraw from US news listings so not really blockchain related but I thought it had some importance related to a reputation of a school or the reputation of a you know university here and it's interesting how the reason a lot of these schools are dropping out of participating in this US news listing is because it's leading to um misaligned incentives internally with their with their internal university so this is creating sort of an issue and they think that by removing themselves from here those incentives will be removed and philosophically it would be better for the universities not to be part of this any thoughts anybody on this one yeah it's it's interesting because this these schools are you know some major medical schools so I think others will continue to drop you know you have so why exactly are they dropping so you know how some ranking systems you know require you to have a certain number of specific type of students for example or specific kind of I guess let me read it here specifically yeah so for example Columbia University says rankings perpetuate a narrow and elitist perspective on medical education here we reached the decision to end our participation now because of concerns that these rankings are sometimes based on data that can be inaccurate or misleading but because the rankings measure the wrong things so the rankings provide a flawed and misleading assessment of medical schools lack in accuracy validity and relevance so that's sort of like the theme here yeah gonna move on to the next one and the reason I bring it up just to kind of close the circle here I think potentially if we have more transparent data from universities in a way maybe even on a blockchain perhaps or some distributed ledger maybe we don't need like us news to make the rankings but it could be something that the universities can provide on a public shared ledger in some way that was my thought there I don't think anyone's really working on that but just wanted to point it out what's holding dows back I thought this was interesting because there are a lot of proponents for dows and you know I think there's a lot of potential for dows but some things that were said here were interesting here you know they're talking about how in Wyoming there's new DAO laws and Wyoming Vermont Tennessee however it became evident as soon as dows collided with the real world that these powerful new vehicles for crowdfunding and organization are constrained by immense coordination and regulatory costs that can negate the benefits of using a DAO in the first place so on the coordination side dows add friction by add friction to using resources by requiring members to pass proposals by default most dows today are at risk of being what ethereum co-founder calls veto bureaucracy so basically where the default outcome is no unless a proposal sponsor rounds up sufficient support for the project so it sort of becomes like a popularity contest in a way in many ways just making coordination actual decision making more difficult I think there's work being done on the coordination side of dows there's some companies looking at how to make dows more effective so it should be interesting here there's a note making dows work it's an important project for humanity because they promise us a more democratic future where we own and govern the town squares of tomorrow so we'll see I think this is a interesting thought here so I appreciated it I wanted to share it with you all yeah my experience with it has been it's been hard to incentivize people to really participate when it's all a lot of the ones I've been at have been really a volunteer basis there there isn't it's hard when everything's coming from a volunteer standpoint to really engage people to participate in some of them depending on you know which ones you're in or it's just been things kind of fall apart um and that's what I've seen yeah I agree I think like initially there's a lot of excitement while joining the Dow and I think people see the potential but you know when push comes to shove and like months later interest has dwindled maybe dwindled a little bit and um yeah so it is interesting I haven't like have any of you guys been part of any particular dows and like what are your experiences take on yeah I was part of metagamma delta um which is a doll that funds women led projects I mean I still am but um and we've done you know it that's been part of the problem is that the incentive to get people to put proposals together or like really be ahead of these committees that evaluate these projects I mean there's still people doing it and people that are really involved but it's hard to get people to engage we also had some problems with the polygon network like voting it got really slow and there was technical issues so that's been my the issues I've seen is just really engagement and streamlining the processes uh to something that can work for everyone that's been my my experience with it thanks Erica I appreciate that yeah I think just one sentence here on the regulatory side starting a dow is easy you can create a multi-sig wallet requires multiple people to sign transactions together the cost of starting a compliant dow however is immense so that's sort of like the takeaway yeah my friend is a my friend is a lawyer in the space and yeah it's you know it's to create a compliant one does take some work yeah and you know being compliant is a moving target as well in the space yeah definitely Amazon entering web 3 via nfts so this is interesting um because the amazon company has been or aws amazon um has been in the web 3 realm to some degree I know they've been hiring people in web 3 for at least a year now but the what they're trying to do exactly wasn't clear but here I guess this is a rumor amazon is rumored to be unveiling a nft initiative part of the retail giants larger push into web 3 the project could raise significant regulatory issues so um was that it for this crisis you're not here so yeah yeah it talks about we know whether our nfts are securities and how amazon is going to deal with that but let's try to see exactly what they're trying to build here so I guess the report was by blockworks initiative coming soon this is an exclusive published January 26th advertisement one example in the works per one source getting amazon customers to play crypto games and claim free nfts in the process so much might be seeing some games coming out of amazon in that way it wasn't initially wasn't immediately clear who in terms of personnel is leading amazon's nft initiative details about the platform which would include certain nft gaming initiatives are still unfolding but the two sources said the platform is set to run out of amazon proper rather than its popular web hosting platform aws um right additional fifth source that amazon has been exploring a number of web 3 initiatives of late all right so yeah we'll definitely be seeing hopefully more news coming out of this from amazon I just think it'll be a really big moment for the industry because then you'll have you know more mass adoption you can say yeah over here just to make a point the CEO of amazon has previously stated he's open to the company selling nfts and that the company's not closing the door to crypto currencies generally I think it's an important statement okay moving on oh yes so this is a government related event that happened actually Tuesday yesterday yes February or sorry January 31st I guess there are multiple announcements around tables here but my point is it's interesting to see that the copyright office in the United States patent trademark office are working with people to understand non-fungible tokens and to study it and to determine how it will impact what they do so there were three round tables publicly available for everyone one on trademarks one on patents one on copyright I believe you can actually go ahead you can't view them already you can yeah you can access I know it was recorded so I think you can access those through their website somewhere so check that out it was a full day round table it was like I think eight hours or six hours or something so there's a lot of information there um yeah I just wanted to point that out if people weren't aware that the government is definitely trying to figure this all out here and it's important that they do that because we need the right regulations to move forward uh so a few weeks ago I was in London where I got the chance to speak to many decentralized scientists and it was an event called decide London I wrote a recap in conjunction with a collaboration with vibe bio and you can read the recap here kind of this discusses what was covered who was there a lot of it had to deal with um decentralized peer review in the scientific process as well as patient dows and um yeah just a new approach to funding crowdfunding for new drug development that was something that a low tide talked about they found her a vibe bio there were lots of other people uh Laura Minkini from Athena Dow was there and she spoke and overall it was a really good event I thought and progressive in terms of what's happening in the industry so I thought there was some new announcements that were pretty cool um yeah even uh Vitalik was on the screen as well interviewed by Vincent it was a recording but um yeah we got to participate in some workshops so hopefully if you guys are interested you can check that out there are many decide events all over the world now um so if you find one in your country or city you should check it out you'll learn a lot all right moving on quickly because I know we have a lot to cover so I published this article and it read it okay Ray you're breaking up a little bit oh sorry can you hear me yep that's better all right appreciate that Erica so this article from Vice I edited human DNA at home with a do-yourself crisper kit um I thought this was interesting we are I think all sort of familiar with biohacking as a as a trend a lot of people are trying to you know create their own nasal vaccines at home for COVID for example um and their you know miniature labs so it's quite interesting because I do think that this sort of trend is going to continue to grow that being said I think it leads to potential safety risks and potential ethical risks as well especially when it comes to crisper where you can edit your own living um genome or genetic DNA potentially and you know there's a lot of potential downstream effects that we're not aware of yet so we want to be doing this in a thoughtful way but the point is like you know this person kind of discusses how they went ahead and you know edited genes um let me find a good put in perspective compared to the risks of driving cars taking medicine medication using drugs and any other risk we accept I think they are minimal both to individuals and society he said this is the person's perspective instead the benefits are great we've not had any real accidents from lay people using crisper it's all hypothetical risks so far people might harm themselves with crisper might create a pest dangerous to agriculture or the environment or some other problem but I consider it unlikely at present so you can see like how comfortable this person is um with doing this his name is Zaynor and yeah I just thought it was really telling of what's what's going on um and it's not a crime biohacking is not a crime or I guess that's a sticker that they used I'm sure that there are levels of criminality in terms of what you can do you can't do everything especially trials on humans without their consent and also registered with the FDA so you know there are interesting risks here there is a Netflix docu series called unnatural selection came out 2019 and it actually shows this person attempting to edit their DNA so do you want to point this out has implications for our future in biotech so yeah wait how easy is it how easy how easy is it to sell to sell crisper kits that is meant for human do you know in the u.s. like I thought that would have been illegal yeah that's a good question so here he says he has claimed to make an at-home covid vaccine in 2020 and then a fecal microbiome transplant in terms of crisper there's a company called Odin and they sell kits so let's go to Odin's website here guys do yourself genetic engineering and I think this is more like you know laboratory stuff it's less about your personal genome I think but let's check this out do it yourself bacterial gene engineering crisper kit $179 and you have even a pipette everything you need let's see okay so you do get the plasmid maps here yeah you can just download the DNA files template sequences I haven't done this myself so I'm not an expert in this if you are leave a comment and tell us if you can answer how easy it is to to get these kits for yourself and do it very curious I'm just imagining how well this could get like if a person just injected the edited kidney cells into themselves and that causes I don't know health issues like maybe cancer I don't know I thought this was more regulated for the human side like I mean I would understand if it's like with plants and like with animals and worms and rats or whatever but yeah in terms of like living creatures or at least animals humans I don't know it's a good question well I we can dig into that for next time maybe because I do think it's important and I think more people are doing it so we need to kind of address some of these issues before it gets too late but I don't think that's what I don't think that will ever stop it either you know totally these tabs at the top living things what is that living things yeah okay got it yeah you can purchase by humans no products in animal cell lines and for human cell lines you have human embryonic kidney cell lines HEK too many for you all right thanks I was just curious what they had available there thank you all right I'm gonna move on to the next one an article at Forbes get it at 4.5 million dollars and the logic so if these are all you have oh you're breaking you're breaking up again right all right thanks so yeah I think this is interesting to see the you know attraction that Vita Dallas has made so far talks about dows I don't think I want to get too much into it but basically Pfizer Ventures has invested some money to get a governance tokens and being an active contributor to the community so you can read more about it here all right uh legal dangers of getting involved with dows so a lot of that warnings here so buying Dow tokens that's no longer risk free courts might consider you as a partner in the business and judge you liable for millions in the hacked funds so what's what it's saying is if you do join a Dow you might be implicating yourself in the future because if let's say a company like you know Nike identifies that you join there's a group of people who joined a Dow for sports Dow or something and they're using the Nike logo Nike sues sports Dow everyone in the Dow might have liability there so because it's it's not just one person or owner so it's it's very tricky um there is risk there and I just wanted to point that out for everyone interested do your research if you're joining a Dow and if you're creating one do more research and get a team a legal team perhaps um one thing that you could do is you can create a a foundation or a corporate rapper so you can for example have a s corp or LC or corporation representing your dow so that you can benefit from the legal protections and liabilities of these corporate structures um so here's an in practice of our courts may interpret Dow structures as general partnerships which have unlimited unlimited joint and several liability uh for all participants observes Jason Corbett who's the managing partner um at a law firm called silk legal uh so yeah I think this is an interesting article worth reading I skimmed through it but I think anyone interested in joining a Dow would benefit from definitely consuming this information um any thoughts questions guys moving on to the next article here yeah another Dow topic uh this one more on a positive note Dow's might be cure for biotech startups and new drug development this was published uh about two weeks ago and basically it's discussing how actually even for example says here Vita Dow molecule are two Dow's that were created to fund longevity research and Pfizer recently committed 500,000 to Vita Dow suggesting Dow's might be entering the mainstream so you get people with shared interests you collect um money together for a specific purpose and then money is used in order to conduct that research and hopefully uh those initial investors may have some benefits or rewards for doing so or not uh really depends um the key here is that no Dow member has any financial interest in the target projects by reason of being a Dow member okay so I guess this is an important note here but you still do get perks besides funding specific projects Dow's could create additional benefits through the creation of tokens with unique rights or properties as a condition to funding any particular project a Dow might demand that its members be granted certain rights or benefits this could include frontline access to clinical trials I think that's a good one our discounted therapies of course this would need to go through a compliance uh approvals so I'm not really sure how it would specifically be um you know created or orchestrated in order to be compliant but um yeah here's is there also legal issues to navigate navigating or negotiating any tokenized rights can be complicated and whether tokens are securities and subject to securities and exchange commission regulation is a hot topic that's for sure so yeah I thought it was interesting that Bloomberg Law has started talking about this in the terms of patient dows and in the sense here so that's really cool I think there's more traction happening and it's good news all right uh so you guys have heard of a company from California a long time ago that promised that it can measure thousands of molecules from a single drop but this one and um it's a different one and researchers at Stanford Medicine have shown they can measure thousands of molecules from a single drop of blood and I'm just going to skim through here I guess my point is um we want to make sure that before this is commercialized that the research is done and validated and it'll be interesting to see these test kits at home potentially so that's what they're saying here the next step for the Snyder lab will be to expand the pilot studies and offer multi-omic micro sampling to a broader swath of patients several ongoing projects are evaluating if this method can be used for early disease detection I mean if this does work I think it's really amazing um but we'll have to see if it really can pass tests and validation here so just to be clear in the pilot study of two two test subjects the researchers were able to measure the levels of 128 proteins 1000 well about 1400 metabolites and about 700 lipids from each micro sample amazing yeah moving on so there's a company called quicknode which just raised uh 60 million dollar 800 million dollar valuation claiming to be the aws or a juror of blockchain so this company here says when we raised a 35 million dollar round we were 20 people now we're over 120 people the Nebutzvisky said who is I believe the CEO yep CEO and co-founder here of the company so that's a significant chunk of change I think that's really incredible how much they've raised and they were founded in 2017 and they're trying to build the web three infrastructure well they're aiming to bring web two infrastructure two web three and it looks like they're gaining a lot of traction the platform here handles over 200 billion api requests monthly and is always available with 99 99.99 uptime so interesting very curious how how this company will play out they have it says here we have over five 50 000 developers on the platform constantly requesting new things but for us the roadmap is always the addition of protocols and working with these foundations it's not just having a protocol but a relationship to build with the foundations to be an extension of their ecosystems so that they and their developers can have a better experience yeah um have you guys heard of quick note used it in any way at all I have not thanks for sharing it's interesting I haven't either yeah that is interesting you just hear it says here that its customer base includes major web two companies like twitter and adobe as well as web three platforms like coinbase open sea chain link one inch network dune analytics and phantom so pretty interesting okay uh a 16z where's my tab here this is an article published this uh last month when is decentralizing on a blockchain valuable kind of discusses what your operating models should look like if you are trying to use a dow for your organization um figuring out how decentralized it should be and if it should be on a blockchain at all in the first place is is sort of like what this article kind of guides you through and discusses even like airdrops at what time should you decentralize so that was quite useful for people here here it says it is optimal to choose decentralized governance if the size of the locked in effect is sufficiently large so how large exactly sufficiently large is has to be determined on a case by case basis and depends on the specifics of the network such as the strength of network effects users aversion to monetization the potential profit for monetization and user growth and it suggests some academic work on how to measure that size of locked in effects that could be directionally useful yeah uh worth read I think they talk about you know game theory within this article so next up here is from science and it's an announcement that the FDA no law needs to require animal tests for human trials um this doesn't mean that no drugs need animal trials it just means that they some drugs can bypass that step and go directly to human trials in some cases after it's been approved so it is a big deal because in many drug development processes there has been times when drugs would go through animal testing I guess sort of unnecessarily in a way um and it you know it took longer for the drug to become approved overall so by cutting down that time patients might be able to get their drugs a little bit faster so that's the purpose of doing this and they're using a lot of like in silica sort of testing instead of in animals so here last month lorna ewart chief scientific officer emulate in burr and colleagues published a study highlighting the potential of this technology talking about silicon based polymers the company's liver chips correctly identified 87 percent of the variety of drugs that were moved into humans after animal studies but then either failed in clinical trials because they were toxic to the liver or were approved for market but then withdrawn or scaled back because of liver damage the chips didn't falsely flag any non-toxic drugs interesting um another method for doing these tests would be to use organoids which are sort of like 3d clusters of cells mimicking the effects they would have in like a living creature or human i'm sorry animal and human actually you can have human organs as well so yeah yeah i just read in there that they think it's unreasonable to test anti nausea drugs and dogs but like my understanding is the real reason that they use animals it's just for safety they're not testing efficacy um and i i think it's great that they're trying not to use animals so if they can come up with a better way i think it's great but yeah i and especially if the drugs are you know similar to other drugs that are out there but yeah i i don't know what that statement's about it's kind of weird because it's not you're not testing the anti-nausea portion when you're testing toxicity but whatever yeah it says here that a judge ruled against the company though they claimed that but the judge ruled against it oh got it yeah that makes me exciting the animal testing requirement yeah so people have tried to bypass the animal test before um so there's still gonna be some like you know investigations into this into these drugs before they just go into humans but it won't require that specific requirement that has existed for many years yeah i think that's good for the sake of the animals and everything else yeah yeah we want these cute little guys to no yes it's it's a ugly part of drug development sure yeah that's for sure all right um there's a medium blog here posted that i thought was interesting by Aaron Zygall-Daylove and it sort of just maps out the ecosystem or the landscape for health data exchanges uh it has Avenir, Medi-ledger, Hashtag, Solvecare, Pharmalledger, Equidium Health, Medical Chain and i can't read that one but it's all here and uh i thought this was interesting see how this was mapped out um yeah i think there's probably more to include as well but like for example um well we need to get into different examples here but the point is like this could be a really good starting point for people interested in what's going on in the health data exchange side of blockchain and yeah could lead to a lot of interesting discoveries so leave that here for you all all right entrepreneur magazine there was an article called healthifying NFTs and discusses mainly actually uh India's health care sector in this article but it talks about how NFTs can be used to uh as a you know data ownership of your health data as well as maybe other things related to um health care so another benefit of health NFTs is that tokenized decentralized data can be accessed by the patient anywhere anytime without making rounds of health facilities or yeah which do not readily share detailed data so yeah it's good to see that you know entrepreneur india is has been you know interested in this this is an opinion expressed by Saptak Bardhan so so thank you Saptak tech times and you've heard of it google research and deep mine launch an AI based health care language model uh it said it is said that it can provide safer answers for health care um it's called med palm and yeah this is interesting because i think AI has been a hot topic in recent months and i think medical related AI is going to be super interesting because it's going to be able to allow providers and patients to communicate in like a new way i think so good stuff i think i mean i haven't used it myself but if someone has very curious i'll let us know all right um these educational markets here won't dive into too deeply but first one is just metallic buterin's post he's the founder of ethereum about stealth addresses making potentially making it possible to send people nfts or cryptocurrencies privately uh inherently through ethereum uh this is a theoretical system to be potentially proposed and put in place in the ethereum core code so you can read more about it here to talk about shared secrets and how how the exchange would actually work you see here bob generates some kind of address um and then bob sends this address his public address to alice either directly or by registering it on ens alice does some computation which generates another address and then alice sends a transaction which transfers the asset to that computated address which is at the stealth address and then bob is able to control and spend the asset but it's not publicly viewed you know they talk about stealth meta addresses uh the fmrl pub key that's required as part of this sort of complicated but also you know elegant in its own way um i thought it was interesting to share next here is a correspondence article in nature magazine titled nft for management of health data and it's here it's quite a short article actually they just talked about the potential benefits of nft tokenization um in in health care are in a yeah health care data management including data from patients hospitals insurance government bodies pharma companies and research institutes again this is you know interesting uh and i think reinforces the idea of using nfts in health care um i think we've done that a lot in this meeting and in previous meetings so i think there's definitely progress in that space um and then i posted two podcast episodes um one on d-side with michael fischer and then one on machine learning during the you know patient-doctor interaction uh with the CEO of nabla which is a AI company in France that's it for our agenda thank you all for joining if anyone has any questions or anything to share open to uh discussion now well erica you're the only one on so right now thanks for hosting that was yeah no problem hopefully yeah after not being in the space for for for a minute it was a great update thank you awesome yeah if anyone listening on youtube finds anything interesting here want to share their thoughts please do so and subscribe and also like the video too so thank you and have a great week everybody