 Hi everybody and welcome back to our podcast from the Kamasutra to 2020 where we look at your questions, your concerns, even your worries around all things to do with sex and sexuality. So as always we have with us Dr. Anvita Madan Bihel. Anvita is a psychosexual therapist and she brings the psychological perspective to the advice that the Kamasutra has to give. Welcome Thank you Seema and welcome to our podcast this week. So Anvita today I have actually taken the liberty of breaking the queue of questions and slotting a question in because as you know we've got this backlog of questions over months they've all been piled up they're all in line to be answered at a certain time but this one came in and I've just finished saying this at a recent talk about how parents need to be more open with their children they need to be more encouraging so that the children can come and talk to them rather than scaring the children into thinking that they can never come to approach them with all their problems etc. We've said this in the last session that we did so when this particular question came in today it had me in two minds because on one side it was one of the most sex positive parents that I have come across and I felt really happy to read this question but there was also something about it which had me thinking just a little bit and I thought I think that we need to approach this today and I need your advice on this. So it says is it normal to gift a sex toy to my 13 year old daughter so he goes on to say I'm the father of a girl who is about to turn 13 in a few months I believe in sex positive parenting and discussing sex in my house is not to go at all I am planning on gifting my daughter a sex toy for her 13th birthday it's her first sex toy is this normal or would I be crossing the line by doing so and if it is normal then is it too soon to be introducing her to a sex toy what would be the appropriate age to gift her one? Yeah this is the tricky as in I hear you how you know I first want to say oh what a father you know is talking this is where we ultimately want to go where sex and sexuality is normalized but the more I think about it where I want to go with it is that I don't know where this child is and how mature this child is and where she is on her sexual journey you know how much has she thought about her sex and sexuality is she at a stage where she is exploring sex toys you know so 13 year old some are very mature very sexual have been sexually active for some time some have not even considered sex and sexuality at 13 so I don't know anything about the child and what I want to say is that I want to keep the child at the centre and I would want her to decide her sexual journey and decide when she is ready to explore a sex toy versus it being introduced by a parent in some ways so my question is more around where is this child and where is she on her sexual journey so yeah so I think it's a bit tricky yeah because I think that you know we as adults like you were saying earlier when we were talking about it that we as adults are at a certain journey in our lives so we have experienced certain things we've come to certain points and we've arrived there through a progression of events and emotions and just environments and so to actually say that this is okay to do it for 13 year old I'm not sure that it's the right age or I mean one is like we were saying that you know maybe she's not at that right point yet but is she actually ready for it I find that a lot of 13 year old I mean there are a lot of 13 year olds who are sexually active already they've already thought of it they've come to understand that it's something that they want to do but an equal number of 13 year olds are still at that stage when the idea of romance and sweetness you know all of that is still very very important this whole idea of just holding hands or just that little first touch or that first kiss or the flirting or you know the messages and I think that if we get to the sex story too quickly it might sort of it might take away this part of the journey and I think that's a huge part of your your growing up years absolutely because you know we have to allow every every person to go through their own experimentation getting to know their body understanding their body you know they will discover their vaginas or penis for the first time they will understand what that touch feels like where the touch feels like pleasure but all of that is through experimentation right it's all about discovering discovering your own vagina touching your own vagina understanding the anatomy of it and all so there is a whole process of through experimentation that people do it and and what age they do it is so different for different people and we don't know that so we need to allow that experimentation to happen we need to allow them to discover their own sexuality and their own body so sometimes as adults we might give too much information or too much understanding you know so they might not be ready for a sex toy they might still be experimenting in some ways or understanding it in a thing so I would really encourage them to have their own progression so the day she comes and says and if you have an environment like this in your household where how amazing would it be that there would be a child a teenager a young adult who wants to buy a sex toy and comes up and says to their parents I would really like a sex toy and the parents are not shaming and judging and say okay let's have a conversation what kind of sex toy you want have them you want a sex toy what are you looking for that and they can actually have a conversation about it I think that relationship is way better and that's what we are looking for rather than the other way of imposing a certain kind of sexuality on your child you know so there's a slight difference in that I hear you I think that I mean I think that this gentleman is pretty amazing because there aren't a lot of fathers like this and I cannot applaud you enough and I think Anvita joins me in that so we think that this is really incredible and we would like to see more households because as you and I know we see the other way around households where a father will actually shame a child we've got this email recently from this 20 year old or 24 year old who was sexually active and her father called her all sorts of awful names I mean he was abusive when she said I'm sexually active so I think it's amazing that you can have that kind of relationship with your child but I think creating an environment of sex positivity in the household is a lot more than merely being able to talk about it I think that there is there's a few other things that go into it because so again this is from personal experience I think that even if you can actually chat to your parents a lot about it privacy is something that a lot of people still enjoy so you might want to come and talk about it but there's a certain level of something that you want to keep to yourself and I think that's really really important and so that should be the line you know where that the child says okay I want to cross over this bit share this much with you but not this much yeah you know we have to respect where their lines of awkwardness or weirdness lie right like so they might want to ask you questions but they might not want to discuss details or they you know you might be aware of certain things but they might not want to share all the details like we see that often with young boys where they'll be wet sheets in the morning you know and you know that there has been a nightfall or they have masturbated all the way and there's subtle ways of supporting them by leaving extra towels or leaving you know sheets and saying I had a friend who said I just left sheets and towels and just let my son know they're in this cupboard if you ever need them rather than you know a thing or have you started masturbating and they you know like they so it's it's really having a judgment of how much they are comfortable sharing because over sharing sometimes can make them feel like oh this is yucky I don't want to speak to my parents about this why are you talking to me about it so there is and they can actually feel uncomfortable sometimes when parents over share or over talk they can feel like this is really yucky and this is making me uncomfortable so it is letting them take the space but they know that you are not going to that your reaction is not going to be like oh my god I can't believe you use the word sex or we don't talk about these dirty things it's a bad thing to do rather than using those reactions if you can say okay that's interesting that you have these questions let's have a conversation about it but give them the space of how much they want to talk and how much they want to keep to themselves I totally agree with that so yeah so there is this there's this fine line isn't it and I know that the gentleman in his email actually asked that that is there a line and what is the line so I guess what we're trying to say is that your attitude is amazing as it is but you know that that you're open and you're creating a non-threatening environment so a lot of people have this thing about wanting to be friends with their kids and the idea is not to be a friend it's not about being a friend it's about being this really supportive person who they can come to if they have an issue be that open be that trustworthy that they trust you to come to you it's not about being a friend because the moment you say oh you know I'm being a friend and they keep crossing the line it's it's going to happen the idea is that as a parent your responsibility is to be there for them and there's a difference so being open is not about being a friend absolutely and I say this so often to parents because they come and say oh I have to be a friend they should be able to come and speak anything to me yes they should be but you're the voice of reason you're the voice that's telling them these are the consequences these are the boundaries this is how you have to be safe now with friends a lot of times there might be some but they are similar ages to them you know that's their limited wisdom in some ways and they want to experiment take risks and that's the feedback they get from friends but you as a parent are the ones who are saying have you considered the consequences have you considered the boundaries you need to maintain boundaries there are limits to things you are the voice of reason and the best way the example I give is that if if there is a busy road and you have a little kid the child doesn't want to cross the road on their own you know we talk about independence but ultimately they feel way safer that they have an adult with them and they can hold their hand and cross the road right so they don't really want to cross the road on their own and that's what it is you are the parent so when they're coming and they're saying we are considering this we are thinking of this they are hoping that you will hold their hand they are hoping that you will be the support system which will they will say this is how I can keep you safe like have you considered how to stay safe so you are their safety net so don't be there to say oh go do this and that and everything because what they are looking from you is boundaries and safety not you know being a friend in some ways that's yeah so I guess what we're saying is that creating a sex positive environment in the home is absolutely essential but there are a couple of things to think about one is that you have to teach your child responsibility equal to the pleasure that you're talking about so yes you know you're going to say that in a sex positive household we talk about pleasure we talk about all the good things to do with it and we talk about all the things that you would like to be doing but there is an equal amount of responsibility which is also your duty to teach them so don't be in a rush to be this this friend who's going to just sort of push them forward to doing things you have to do both things and the other thing is that like Anrita just said you have to know how much they want to share so there is a line between comfort and awkwardness so let the child decide how much they want to share with you rather than you making them share it with you because you're saying look I can tell you about this or I can tell you about this as well and you know that in a sex positive environment there should be an equal amount of ability in you as the parent to take it when the child pushes back and says okay you can come no further in this conversation I want my privacy don't take it a miss don't kind of go oh my god I was trying to be such an amazing sex positive parents and a parent and they're saying no they don't want to talk to me about it sometimes it's actually quite overpowering for the child as well so yeah remember yeah so remember if we have to think about the you know continue there's comfort there's awkwardness and there is feeling unsafe you know and and there is a continuum in some ways so you need to realize that what is that comfortable space that they feel enough like this is I feel safe with my parents I can go and like share my problems I can ask questions I know they will give me reliable safe information and then there is awkwardness like you know if a child government says oh I'm thinking I have questions around sex and sexuality and what do I do you know say I have questions around masturbation and everything and if you start sharing details from your personal life it might be too much information you know like they don't want to know like that's just too much detail that's like awkward maybe but then there is an element of feeling unsafe and that as adults it is completely our responsibility where we are not crossing the line where the child is feeling like I am feeling very unsafe right now I am feeling like there are a lot of boundaries being crossed and that this is making me uncomfortable this is inappropriate this is too much sexual information or sexual touching or sexual sharing like we do know just as a caveat if if an adult shows a child pornography that is sexual abuse and that's what I mean by there is there is an element that we need to keep in mind that could be seen as inappropriate or unsafe so there isn't continuum and as adults we need to learn and we need to be responsible as what's appropriate and what's inappropriate and we should be mindful of that yeah and I think that with let's say the person who's written into us I think that he's obviously intelligent enough and bright enough and evolved enough to understand that quite easily I guess for a lot of other parents this is going to sound like we're giving mixed messages that you know we're saying that oh you know you've got to be so much more open but you can't be so much more open so I think in closing I'm with a normally I'm the one that does the closing argument so to speak and I say well this is what all we suggest today I'm going to ask you to do this well I think in closing what I would say is that what's important is that you have a safe household a safe environment where the children feel safe to come and ask questions to have any clarities to discuss things and you are creating an environment that is not shaming or judging you know in any way that you are not judging them or shaming them for exploring sex and sexuality however the pace needs to be decided by the child how much they want to share needs to be decided by the child so in some ways what we're saying is that the children are at the center of it not as parents you can give them factual information scientific information but at the pace they want to explore their sexuality should be their choice the choices they want to make in some ways like how much they want to share or how much they want to explore or what pace at which they want to sexually grow should be their choices and you are there in some ways to support them and keep them safe and provide them where an environment where you're aware of what is happening in some ways you know that you're not completely that they are completely in at at risk behaviors and you had no idea so you are providing them with like an environment that is healthy and safe and not necessarily telling them what to do in some ways and that's the distinction in some ways and that's what we think healthy positive sexual parenting might look like I think that's extremely well put and I really hope that everybody listening in does take away a lot from this because we want to see this change in all the households ladies and gentlemen whoever it is out there listening we want to see this change because it's only when we see this change in every average household we know that we get to the next step that children will start to feel more safe they start to feel more secure just to be able to come to an adult who has their best at heart you know I mean as parents there is nobody else in this world that's going to want better for your child than you do so be that person that they can come running to if they ever have an issue it's time to stop understanding that we don't shame them and it's also time to stop to stop leading them down this path of thinking that it is it's a dirty thing so again you know that's the that's the sort of thing that we want to change and and once again thank you to the person who wrote this email into us because you give us a chance to have a really open dialogue about something and to bring in certain other perspectives that we had not considered talking about earlier and I think it's opened it up even for us a great deal so we owe you for this we think you're pretty amazing and all power to you so as always on the video if you found it helpful you found it useful do like comment subscribe tell us what you think send in your questions as always to info.cima.anand at gmail.com if you need to get in touch with Anita for a consultation she is on anita.madan behel at gmail.com madan behel spelled m-a-d-a-n-b-a-h-e-l.com you'll find it in the description of the video anyway in the meantime do stay safe stay healthy we'll see you next week see you next week