 Hello everyone and a very good afternoon. We are back with another episode of Entrepreneur India smart investing series, your weekly dose of personal finance that can help you make better decisions with your money. I'm Shukra Singh, Chief Correspondent at Entrepreneur India and your moderator for today's panel. So first up, let me tell you the topic that we'll discuss today, how to deal with EMI's and the balloon interest rate post moratorium. So since the moratorium period ended on 31 August, borrowers have been keenly waiting for the Supreme Court's verdict on whether they should get a relief from payment of interest and also interest on interest component on such role. So as we still wait for the decision, many of you must have your EMI as due as we approach the end of the month. So in today's episode, we tell you how you can tackle the accumulated interest if you have opted for moratorium and what are your repayment options if you're still cash trapped because you know your business is struggling or you're taking a salary cut. So, let me start by laying out the ground rules for our attendees. We request attendees to sit in an area with maximum internet signal to avoid me lag during the webinar. Please participate in the polls during the webinar. And so throughout the presentation, please submit content related questions using the Q&A box which is present right at the bottom of your screen. We will spend approximately 15 minutes at the end of the session to answer your questions. So please stay with us, keep your questions ready. For those of you who are attending through Facebook, please post them in the comments section on Facebook. To open the Q&A box, like I said, click on the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Okay, so coming to speakers, we have with us today, Santosh Joseph. He's the founder and managing partner of Germinate Well Solutions. Santosh's role as the strategist involves creating personal, simple and feasible investment plans for his clients. With over 14 years of industry experience across banking, insurance and asset management. He's an alumnus of IIM Bangalore. He was the vice president sales at DSP BlackRock Investment. Welcome Santosh. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you, Shipra. Our second speaker is Harshad Chetanwala. He's the co-founder of My Wealth Grow. Harshad is a certified financial planner with more than 18 years of experience in financial services and having worked with companies like Quantum Asset Management Company, Securities and HDFC, Standard Life Insurance. In the past 18 years of his career, Harshad has worked in multiple roles focusing on personal finance, asset allocation, goal-based investing, mutual funds, equities, debt and insurance that help families to achieve the financial goals. Welcome, Harshad. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thanks for the invitation. Thank you. So I want to begin the conversation with those borrowers who opted for the moratorium and are now staring at a ballooned interest rate that needs to be repaid. So let me start with you, Santosh. What are the different ways in which a borrower can tackle the accumulated interest now that the moratorium is over and he needs to start repaying the interest? See, I'll answer your question with a little bit of a backdrop. Now, the government gave us first three months of moratorium and then later they extended this to three months of moratorium. Now, the treatment of interest for the banks is still a decision which is pending in the Supreme Court. Now, many people thought that this was a holiday on an EMI. Without realizing at the bank's end, this didn't mean a holiday. This meant giving you flexibility of saying, do not pay your EMI, but the interest will be accumulated and the interest accumulated will actually become a part of your principle. Therefore, your question of what happens right now, for example, assuming from the month of September or October, the EMI schedule is normalized, which means you continue to pay the EMI's that you are paying effective February or March 2020. Now, your EMI's will continue, but please remember your initial loan amount that you took would have decreased a certain extent depending on the tenure of the loan, how much you paid back. Also, would have increased to the extent of EMI's not paid, interest calculated on the EMI's not paid, so your actual outstanding loan will go up. Now, when the outstanding loan amount goes up, instead of a reducing balance, it becomes an increasing balance. One, second thing is many people have different methods, but the most common one used right now is what we call a fixed EMI. The term changes, but the EMI amount remains constant. Now, in a scenario like this, when the EMI amount remains constant, number of years will increase where you'll pay more EMI. So the burden will not be felt immediately. It will be felt, for example, if I had a 10-year home loan and I had finished five years and I have another five years left, because the six months break, it's going to be five years and six months from today. But it will not exactly be six months. It will possibly be nine months or 10 months or 12 months depending on one the interest rate, the product of loan that you avail. Because remember, the moratorium came from credit card to personal loan to car loans to including your home loans and every other loan possible that is an unoffer. Now, depending on the interest rate available and the method the bank was calculating, the number of EMI's are going to increase. I hope I made that clear for you. Yes, yes, completely. Harsh, what would you like to add here? I think I started with the right tone saying that explaining what the impact of the moratorium, because a lot of people thought that it's kind of a waiver, which it is not. Okay, I think the most important point here is that, you know, the people who have availed this moratorium, people who have longer duration of EMI is to be paid. Okay, the liability is much more longer. They are the most who have got impacted of availing this particular moratorium. People who had shorter tenure of pending, you know, liability, they were well, they were well aware and they did calculate it and they said it's better to take this opportunity to save for the future in terms of, you know, fire as a contingency. But it's going to hit most of the people who have long term liabilities, particularly the home loans and which are like beyond your, you know, 8, 9, 10 years. Okay, I think before, you know, before we discuss further on this, I think it's very important for us to, you know, admit that, you know, it's a very different kind of crisis. Okay, so there are a lot of people who have suffered because of this, people have suffered, you know, they have lost their job, they have lost their salary card, the businesses are taking a hit. You know, the first and the most important thing is the key here is that, you know, we have to tell each and every one that, you know, never leave the self-belief. That's where the key is. It is not because anyone invited COVID to come here. Okay, it is not because of the problem that people are facing is that they have initiated it. Okay, so it's beyond their control, so that self-belief is important because if in case they break down right now and looking at the liabilities, it will be very difficult to tackle that liability payment in future. And they are not alone. So many people who are suffering this and you can come out very easily. I think we will also see more roles of your banks and companies where people are working, they playing important role in supporting, you know, people who have suffered in terms of your, you know, who are unable to pay right now or who are suffering kind of job cut or job loss. Already we are seeing a lot of corporates chipping in to help their employees. So from all pockets, I think there is very important thing that, you know, I think we'll have to accommodate each other. Most importantly, I think when we and also when you look at the kind of people who have opted for moratorium, I believe there are, you know, you can bucket them in three different baskets. Okay, so you have one set of, you know, one set of people who genuinely were suffering from either a job loss or a pay cut. And they had to opt for moratorium at any cost. Then there are a set of people who opted for moratorium thinking that, you know, the things are good right now, but it can get difficult down the line. So as a contingency, they opted for these things. Okay, like moratorium and they said, we'll use it as a backup. And then there's a third segment of people which are very few, I believe they took this opportunity to evaluate what is better. EMI or I use this money to invest and they park and start backing the money into stock market because the markets were falling at that time. Okay, so we'll talk about the first two and not the third one. Okay, because third ones are well placed right now. Okay, so these two, you know, these two set of people are people who would like to have to look into it from a, you know, overall, where do they stand in terms of them? You know, what do you say in terms of their finance and then where do they stand in their liability? In fact, there's another thing that one could add where I feel that we missed out to address. I think Arshad also gave very interesting points there is that for every one EMI that you possibly took advantage of in the moratorium. Please remember the moratorium was a choice. Right, they gave you a blanket option and every bank reached out to you saying that do you want to avail of this facility or not. Now, when you availed of the facility and especially like what Arshad rightly said long term loans. It's very interesting to note and I don't want to make a generic comment and, you know, lead people in the wrong thought, but every one EMI that you take a moratorium for it's just not one EMI sometimes it could be more than one or two EMI is that you have to end up paying extra. Now, sadly, by the time people could digest this they're already one or two moratoriums that are taken one or two months. Now, we're having this conversation towards the end many people are only now beginning to realize I had the money I just thought like what Arshad said point one and point two no. One genuinely they couldn't pay to some people took a break saying that if the government is giving that option why not I take it. Let me just swing the axe kind of a scenario for them. I think the pinch is going to be a little felt because that's going to take long and therefore you notice why now the case is pending in the Supreme Court. Yes, of course. In fact, you know when I did a story on this, you know, when it was announced back in April. So, I mean, I did some calculations with the help of financial experts of course, and you know what what we derived that was that, you know, the longer the loan tenure, the more you'll be hit. So either EMI was if you if you like if you choose to keep your EMI is intact for say you have a loan pending for 15 years, then the number of additional EMI is that you pay will be increased by six, which is half a year. So you know what you rightly said sometimes that for every one month of moratorium taken the number of EMI that will increase will be substantial. Okay, so now, you know, now that some of us did the math some of us some of us did not but the thing is that those who took the model for it or EMI looking at accumulated interest. So I want to ask you, what are the options of repayment do they have to like can they make the if they have better cash flows right now. If they, you know, make the interest repayment at once or should they kind of increase the number of, you know, the loan tenure or should they increase the EMI, what are the different options and what are calling to you is is the most feasible option. See, currently, you want to go first. Okay, see currently there is a kind of a very fine line that one has to draw because of two things one across the board interest rates have dropped. Now, many cases banks have voluntarily called and told you I'm reducing your rate. In many cases you have to make that occasional phone call long line on the telephone IVR and then get your rates to be reduced your respect or what product you have. So after the six months moratorium period is over if your cash flows get better your salary increases or your business develops better. It's a no brainer that we have to figure out how I can cover up that six months in the earliest possible. Now in some cases what you'll do you'll be making what we call a bullet payment saying that hey listen I had this money now I have can it be adjusted towards a lump sum. The second thing that you can do is rework on your EMI. Now this is a slightly lengthy process and then especially if it's for long term loans is not going to be easier, especially for home loans and long term other loans. But if it's for a three year loan to your loan now and your salary is better or your income is got better than before. See, we also have to keep in mind that many businesses suffered but there are also many people who have done a lot more business because of this because maybe they were into some level of service or business or activity, which COVID gave them a huge wind beneath the wings. So those people want to finish their home loans earlier but they don't have bullet payment. If I was paying a 10,000 rupees EMI maybe I can do make 12 and a half thousand every month. Now that doesn't reduce it just by outstanding amount by 12 and a half because it will drop the EMI significantly more than what you just mathematically calculate because it reduces the interested balance. The third part what you'll have to do is then start saving this money or accumulating the money elsewhere and you can match it towards what is outstanding towards the last few months left and once for all close the loan. So in a very simple sense, I've given you three options. One, you make a bullet payment to you talk to the bank and rework on your EMI schedule itself. Third, you save the money, keep it for a rainy day, continue your EMI and try and see towards the tail part of the loan close of the loan. Let's say when it's six months away, 12 months away or 15 months away with your savings that you've got after the post COVID recovery from an economic sense. What would you like to add here? What we're not talking here will come later is about the recast and the reworking of the home loan interest loan interest. So I think I'll just add a couple of things to what Santosh have shared. One is, of course, RBI is going to be much more accommodative down the line because they have understood that they have to tolerate this for some more time. So the interest rates will continue to be on the lower side. Of course, it all depends on the banks to pass it on to the customers. From a customer perspective, let's say I have availed all the benefit of moratorium and I would like to now decide what do I do. A lot will depend on where do I stand today, how are my job prospects or running prospects right now. That's going to be very crucial. One point is that, as Santosh said, what I will do is I will continue to save money until a certain extent and then I will go and repay. I would add just one more thing in this that probably what I would do here is that probably I'll start using this particular format of saving. And then on every six months, 10 months interval, if in case my loan tenure is much more longer, I'll go and make those part payments, which will help me to bring down my liability. And I'm particularly talking about the long-term liability here, which is predominant to your home loan and usually your home and vehicle loan. So that's something that one can avail. And then of course, we have to do match accordingly that what works better for the finance when it comes to either increasing the EMI or increasing the tenure. Because the tenure has already been increased as soon as I opted for moratoriums. Now the idea is that if in case I'm well placed, then I better take this opportunity to save and try to make part payment and close it as soon as possible. So we have a question from one of our viewers here. It's very, and it's kind of what you're just talking about. So I'll take it up. I have a home loan. This is Debarga. He's asking, I have a home loan EMI of 28,000. I took moratorium for three months and I'm still unable to pay. Should I break my fixed deposit to repay the loan some part of the loan? So I think the important thing is that, you know, if needed, if there is no other way to make the payment and you do not want to take this moratorium ahead, you are quite sure that, you know, down the line things will be normal. Because what happens is usually we have a tendency of saving money in our savings account or bank account as a contingency fund. This is as good as a contingency. Let's admit it. It's a contingency. I mean, it's an emergency where, you know, there is no other way I'm, you know, I'm able to fulfill the commitments that I have taken on my liability. So if, so the way to go about is that, you know, of course, one has to look at what kind of contingency fund you have. And let's say my fixed deposit is my contingency fund right now. I'll try to take that money from it. And I will opt for, you know, paying it through my fixed deposit for at least maybe three, four months in the time I have that money. Because during that period, I will get an opportunity to build something once my, you know, my job or my work starts giving me some more cash flows. So I would opt for it if in case I don't intend to carry it further. Okay, because as, you know, as we discussed earlier, you know, that one month of moratorium has a massive repercussion on the overall liability. And you save it, right? You save it for these days. And any which way do you have long years to save money in future? We'll get those opportunities. Just to add to what I should say is right, whether money is in savings or FD, it's our contingency fund. But a very important point that we have to really understand is that there's a cost. See, there's a cost benefit for paying your EMI. And there's also a cost benefit for breaking your FD. But very clearly, if I were to be a non-finance person and give you an answer, your odds are in favor of you reducing a portion of your FD or savings to pay the loan, because definitely the benefits outweigh the benefit of just keeping the money in FD. Yes, I am not able to personally tell you how much money you have in FD and how much is your loan outstanding. So it's difficult to give a accurate answer. But the generic answer will be it makes sense to use some portion of your savings or bank account or bank FD money to ensure that you're on par with your EMI schedule, because the savings will definitely be more because of the interest rate for a home loan being definitely higher than a FD. Second, FD rates going south and interest rate being constant. So that's about FD. I want to follow up on this question. Does it make sense to take this fruit by encashing your mutual fund investments or say selling an asset, maybe a property or something like that. What about that? That's about FD what you just said. But what if we have to apply the same thing to mutual fund investments or some other asset? The answer is the same. I think I will not see what asset class it belongs to. So there are two ways to look at it. There are people who think that I should get off my liability as soon as possible. And there are another set of people who will of course do all the kind of match to come up with, saying that what makes more sense if in case I keep this money invested into stock markets and take this liability further ahead. In all true sense, if in case you're asking and you can easily tell me as a conservative investor or a planner in that way, I would always put forward that you should get rid of liability as soon as possible. So of course, so the idea, ideally what you should do is let's say if in case I'm in the position where I am supposed to repay it, I will first touch base on six deposit savings accounts, non-equity assets to take care of my liabilities. Then if needed, I will touch my equity investments and that too. Let's say in case I have a long term investments in equity, I will touch base on that rather than touching on the investments that I have recently done because I give that particular investment some more time to grow. And the other investments that I've done in past have already grown and that's how I'll go. So I'll start with probably savings account, fixed deposits, then some debt investments. If in case I have then equities that too long invested in equities. And then if the worst come worst scenario, then the equities which I recently invested. Okay. So, okay, so what we discussed so far was about the accumulated interest on for those who have taken the moratorium. But let's just talk about regular borrowers here. So the moratorium is over. You know, EMI has resumed and there could be borrowers who still do not have a regular income to repay their regular EMI. Now, It's go first, not take on. But you know, not an income, but happy with that EMI. Choose to. We are not able to hear you. I'm sorry. I think I missed your. We couldn't hear the whole question. You're not able to. Am I audible now? No, we're better. Okay. Okay. So I'll just quickly repeat the question. So what I was saying was that, you know, to talk about borrowers who, you know, who still do not have a regular income, but they have to pay their EMI. And now, you know, now this month over there credit score is also going to get impacted if they don't pay their EMI because the moratorium is over. So what options do such borrowers have and this is I am just talking about the regular EMI is here. We're not talking about the accumulated interest. So what options do these borrowers have? Sometimes you would like to take it ahead. See, it is a little kind of a tough situation, because if you really are under this category of people who suffered because of COVID in terms of job loss, income loss, business loss, and you don't have to go. Then depending on the loan, then, you know, those repercussions will begin. For example, if it's an asset back loan, then you'll have to figure out whether you need the asset in the first place. If it is a business loan, then you'll have to figure out whether you can do refinancing for that business from one place to other, or if you can get an extended EMI holiday. Now, please also bear in mind that many of the SMEs and the SME loans that are given are between six months to 12 months EMI holiday feature products. You know, many of our retail urban city people may not know this, but then there are a lot of SME loans which begin with their six months to 12 months EMI holiday. Whatever has begun from March onwards. So the government is very clear from the RBI side and the government side that people even if they pay, it's better that they retain the money with them because they want to improve the systemic liquidity that is available with people and in the economy. In fact, you know, one of the reasons why they made moratorium en masse is that even if people had moratorium, if they didn't pay, they wanted them to have better liquidity so that they could spend. Otherwise, you know, with the lockdown coming to a grinding halt, there was no flow of cash at all, but for essential services. So I think one, one will have to reassess on what basis they took the loan and have to be straight away upfront about the practicality of the recovery of the business or income. Second, refinance. Third, figure out if you can get an EMI holiday for an extended period. It's not a moratorium. Moratorium was done at a mass level. EMI already could be specific to your case, specific to the loan product and also specific to the company because each company's got their own different policies. Some people have a loan holiday policy. Some people do not have a loan holiday policy. So these are a couple of things that we will have to check. All right. Do you want to add something here? I think I'll just touch base on the personal side. You know, Santosh has covered a lot on this thing on the personal loan side, which is, which also covers your home loan and the other personal loans. I think there is an option where people can opt for is, you know, take that waiver for two years when it comes to making payment for their EMI. But it's a very tricky thing. It's just like, you know, you're deferring your payment. And that, that is to case, that's also case to case basis because you have to walk into your bank. You have to explain them that, you know, you have suffered because of this COVID. Like it's in case I am not able to repay my EMI because I have lost my job or I am faced with salary cuts or my business is not doing great. Okay. So you have to present your case and then on that basis the banks will take it ahead because RBI has mandated the banks to take this particular process. So it can, you know, people can opt for it. But I think till the, till the time, you know, you are, you are in a position to, you know, you know, recover and repay. It is better to avoid these kind of restructuring until and unless, you know, there's no other choice available. And of course the point of what Santosh put forward. Okay. The significance of that asset when it comes to you right now. Okay. Okay. So we'll take some questions from, from our viewers. So Sidharth Agarwal, Sidharth, I requested you please ask a question to our panelists here. This is on Zoom. Please unmute so that we can hear you. Hello. Hello, am I audible? Yes, you're audible. Please ask a question. Yeah. So I just wanted to understand if you use the snowball effect. So would it help us, you know, cut down our liabilities? Is that a good method to look at? Hello. Hello. Sidharth, I got your question. What do you mean by snowball effect to cut down on liabilities? So, so the snowball effect basically says, you know, let's, let's look at the, the smaller liabilities first, pay out a sort of amount of them and then, you know, snowball the effect towards the larger amounts. Would that, would that make sense in the sort of a scenario to work on the liability side? I'll, I'll just take this step back and give you an answer. See, in a stress situation like this, when you look at all your loans, then therefore you'll come across a very primary difference between what is a liability in terms of, you know, borrowing versus leverage. Now, if your liability is to create an asset, for example, a home loan, right, or maybe even a car loan for example, where you have an asset which helps you which increases your value, which increases benefits for you. Then, you know, you are going to give priority to it. But imagine taking a personal loan because you want to go for a holiday, taking a personal loan because you want to buy white goods or you want to, you know, do something fun or renovate your house. That's when the things become a little difficult then because you'll have to, you're forced to prioritize. What is a good loan? What is a bad loan? Therefore, when you go through stressful situations, it's better to close or literally have zero bad loans. What do I mean by bad loans where you are struggling to pay, but they do not have an intrinsic value of an asset getting formed. On the other hand, the EMI, you know, in a lot of cases is a good loan because especially if you didn't have a piece of real estate and you need a house to stay for yourself and you bought the house and you're paying EMI, it's better that even during a moratorium period if you can to pay the EMI, even after the moratorium, prioritize all your other expenses, cut down on expenses, cut down on small loans like a personal loan or a credit card outstanding. Even reduce a little bit of your FD and savings account to ensure that your primary effect is on your home loan to be paid back. Therefore, to such an extent, are you, is this a great opportunity for someone to reassess all their loans and be very careful about what kind of borrowings they have? Yes, it is a great opportunity to reassess because this is a nice wake up call for people who are very reckless borrowers. Thank you. I think that answers my question. It was a very comprehensive answer in that case. Thank you so much. Great. Thank you for that. So we have a similar question. This was posted on Facebook by Ankita. I took moratorium for personal and education loan. Which should I pay first? I am 26 years old and I lost my job. It is very similar to what Siddharth asked but here we are talking about personal and education loan. Siddharth, you want to do that? It is a very difficult call in that term because you have your education loan and your personal loan. These are the two things. I think I would ideally go ahead and see where the commitment is more. Let's say that I have higher the outstanding, higher the possibility of that loan getting extended further and the repercussion on the interest payment. I would evaluate from that perspective where there is a lesser outstanding because I have probably paid the principal for a much higher amount compared to the other loan. Wherever the principal is paid in a more percentage, I would rather like to avail the benefit for that and make the EMI payment for the loans. Where my principal outstanding in terms of percentage of what outstanding today it is compared to what I took is higher. One more question. So Girilal is asking, I did not take moratorium and paid EMI and SIPs regularly but I am unable to do that anymore as I am taking 40% salary cut. Should I pay my EMI or SIP? The answer is very simple. You should be doing both and cut down your expenses if it is possible for some time. But in all seriousness, if that 40% is going to be difficult, I think what you should do is ensure that the EMI's are being fully paid and readjust your SIPs and when your salary increases, double up on your SIPs. Because EMI has got a lot of legal and statutory and also credit risk on your what we call credit score. So I think priority is a liability and then savings which will lead to wealth creation or something. So adjust for first clearing out loans, remaining money to save. So to wrap up the discussion, I want to ask one last question. Even though it looks unlikely, but if the moratorium is extended, should borrowers take it further? What do you both have to say on that? Even take turns to answer that? Especially small businesses. We have a lot of queries from small businesses that if it is extended, should they take the moratorium further? Harsh, you should go. I think for businesses, it's quite clear that you have to identify where the, it's all need based right now. If I have to run my show and I'm pretty sure about the prospects of my business, which I know that probably it's a short time where I've taken the hit when it comes to the business aspect of my, from the earnings perspective, then I would certainly like to take it ahead and I'll take that moratorium if in case it's extended, which we don't know right now. It looks unlikely, but we don't know right now. So I will probably go ahead and take that moratorium if in case I'm very sure about my business prospects on the line. Having said that, it's going to be a very rough two to three quarters for India coming down the line. So it's not, it's not an easy call to make. But also a lot of conviction about your own business, conviction about how do you take things ahead are very crucial here. I am pretty sure about, you know, that the long-term prospects in recovery could be much more faster. We all keep on talking about the vaccine and which is still not available or still not in visibility. But if I'm pretty sure about my business prospects, I know that how things are going to be evolved in case as soon as things start turning well, my recovery would be much more faster. Then I would certainly like to opt for it because it's coming from pure conviction and it has some sense behind why I'm taking this particular moratorium. Unlike, you know, last time where, you know, it's like, one is of course, people were afraid and a lot of chaos around that and during that particular time. But this time it's quite clear how it's going to work. Despite of things opening up, we are seeing that the consumption is still low. All these things continue to be a challenge. So we'll evaluate, I will evaluate the things, but at the same time understand the prospects of my business are much more better. I will probably opt for it. I cannot kill something which I've built for years. So I will opt for it. All right. Okay, so we have one last question. Jatin, please unmute so that you can ask your question to the two experts here. Yes, your audible Jatin, please go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to ask now if I have a salary cut. So I have two options. So I have my EMI is going on and SAP is going on. So I was just contemplating, does it make sense to increase my loan tenure so as to reduce my EMI amount and continue with both EMI and SIPs? Or should I stop the SIPs and continue to pay higher EMI right now? I hope I was clear with my question. Yeah, yeah. Arshad, you want to do this or not? I think Santosh just answered a while back. The priority should be, Jatin, the priority should be to repay your liabilities. Okay. Because you're facing a job cut. Okay. Sorry, a pay cut. Okay. I think the idea should be to go ahead and off your EMI. Okay. Because you'll have, you'll certainly you'll get time in future to build those investments in SIPs. If I'm in your place, I would certainly go ahead and make the payment for my EMI. The question is, I am not talking about deferring my EMI. What I'm asking is, I can increase the tenure of the loan. So I have an outstanding loan tenure of eight years and I am paying a 50,000 of EMI right? Now if I increase the tenure to again 20 years, that is an option available with my bank. So my EMI is drastically come down to around 20, 25,000 rupees. So I have a surplus of 28,000 wherein I can both support the SIPs also and continue with the EMI also. So should I do that or the other part is I continue with 50,000 of EMI and stop my 20, 25,000 of SIPs? You should get out of your liability as soon as possible. If in case you're in a position to make the complete payment of 50,000, you're comfortably paying that 50,000 rupees EMI right now. So I continue with that rather than increasing your EMI tenure. Basically you'll be extending your liability further. Jatin, I'd like to add one thing. Very clear, I'm 100% in line with Harshad. You have to clear out your EMI's. Don't try and change the schedule. There are two things that you have to keep in mind that paying the EMI is a, paying the, what is it called, EMI is a definite cost that you'll be saving. Whereas in your mutual fund, there is a probable return that you're expecting. Number one, number two, if you continue to pay a 50,000 and I know almost every bank is reducing the interest rate right now. If you're continuing to pay what you pay and you rework on your interest rate, your 10 years, what you told me could even be seven years or eight years. Now, let me tell you there could not be no better example than my own because I did the same thing for my personal home loan. Where I did that, I was able to rework my home loan for a couple of years lesser, keeping the same EMI. And I didn't avail the moratorium. God's grace, I was able to stick to my plan in these difficult times for my EMI's. So there is clearly numbers add up to the point that you should continue to clear your EMI as early as possible. Maybe adjust your SIP's and later things get better, increase your SIP's. Now, I've already reduced the tenure to the lowest. So I was paying 830, now it is around 725 is what I end up paying. The only attraction that I was actually looking at was my interest. You know, amount year on year was around 1.3 lakh rupees, 1.4 lakh rupees right now. And I was just thinking of, you know, if I increase the tenure of the loan, my interest would work out to be around 2 lakh, which also gives me the tax benefit, the loss from house income. So I was just contemplating on that idea. Sir, you are actually bringing a very other important financial tactic called liquidity management. See, now that is a paramount thing. In many of us are paying the price in this lockdown because we didn't give it to liquidity. What we did was we were so tight and so well planned, we never had a cushion called liquidity which we normally also call margin of safety. What you are now referring to is saying, Santosh, I have the ability to manage my pawns in such a way. I'm able to manage my EMI, I'm able to manage a lower interest rate. I'm also able to slightly tweak the tenure, but I'll also have liquidity and for 2 lakh rupees, I'll also offset the taxes. So brilliant thing if you can be so meticulously planned. We also have to remember one thing that, you know, many of these decisions are so deeply driven with a discipline that what we want to do. See, many people had the ability to pay the EMI, but they didn't take it because they thought it was a holiday given by RBI till they got a good shock. Similarly, if you can take advantage of extending the home loan, getting the benefit of liquidity and the tax benefit and ensuring that you have more money in your hand, I think you should go ahead and do that. Just like to add one more thing. You can optimize it for sure, but never plan your investments based on the tax rules. It can change at any time. And taxation is something where you have to look at it from a very different perspective. Just to add what Santosh has already covered. Absolutely not. So I was, you know, the idea of tax thinking was because, you know, even if you add that tax, your effective home loan cost, so I am paying 730 and if I end up saying 30% tax on the interest amount, my cost for that loan comes down to around 5.5-6%. And even with that surplus, you know, on a safer side, you know, I put into, you know, a combination of fixed income or an equity, it can still catch me around 7-7.5%. So obviously there is a risk which is attached to it, but my concern was it was taking that, you know, risk there. All right. Okay, so that brings us to the end of our session. I hope our viewers got some, you know, insights and takeaways from today's discussion. Thank you very much to both of you again for joining us today and, you know, for this really interesting conversation today we had. Thank you viewers for attending our panel. Have a good day, everybody. Stay safe.