 Good evening and welcome everyone. My name is Kendra Sakamoto. I'm a librarian here at West Vancouver Memorial Library. I am delighted to present this evening's event, Bobby Burgers, in conversation with Hilary Letwin in partnership with the West Vancouver Art Museum. Before we get started, I have a few Zoom items to share. Tonight we will be using the closed caption feature for the hearing impaired. This program is automatically transcribed by Zoom, so please understand it may not be a perfectly accurate transcription. To enable or disable the captions, select the live transcript option on your menu. There will be an opportunity for questions at the end of the program. You may use the chat feature to submit any questions that you may have. While I recognize that we are all in different places this evening, I would like to acknowledge that for those of us on the North Shore, we are on the traditional ancestral and unceded territories of the Squamish, Slewa tooth and Musqueam nations. If you are uncertain as to which ancestral territory you live on, I encourage you to visit whose land to learn more about the traditional lands on which you reside. Here on the West Coast, we are surrounded by the artistic beauty of an amazing natural landscape. I am incredibly grateful to live on these beautiful lands that the Coast Salish peoples have been the careful caretakers of since time immemorial. Tonight we are joined by Dr. Hilary Letwin. Hilary gained her PhD in art history from Johns Hopkins University. She has held curatorial fellowships at the British Museum and the Baltimore Museum of Art. She currently works as the Museum Administrator and Curator at the West Vancouver Art Museum. Welcome Hilary, thank you for joining us. So welcome everybody. I'd like to first start out by thanking the West Vancouver Memorial Library for co-presenting tonight's talk between Bobby and myself. Bobby Burgers is a West Vancouver based painter whose work intimately examines the natural processes of decay, transformation and metamorphosis. While florals have always been her primary source of inspiration, her unique understanding of their physical composition and metaphorical connotations have allowed her to push the classical subject to near abstraction. In addition to canvas, Burgers expressive mark making and textural surfaces extend to collage and sculpture. Burgers has exhibited her work internationally including in Sweden and China and she's represented in Toronto, Vancouver and San Francisco. It's been such a pleasure working with you Bobby for the last year and a half preparing for this exhibition. We first started to work on this project about 18 months ago and of course we could have taken a number of different paths in terms of what we wanted to include in this exhibition. In the end, of course we've settled on your new work, Bobby, made primarily during COVID lockdowns and thereafter. This exhibition, the hard work of spring that we're going to be looking at and talking about this evening represents a really important departure in your work. And it's something that I hope we can discuss, this departure is something I hope we can discuss in more detail this evening. So welcome Bobby. I'd really like to start our conversation this evening with a discussion about West Vancouver. It's where we are this evening. You grew up here and you're an active member in our community. Can you tell us a little bit about your upbringing here and how you feel it has impacted your art and your career as an artist. Well, hello everyone. Thank you for coming. Yes, my parents immigrated from Holland when they were first married and I was born here in North Vancouver. And I've lived in West Vancouver for ever since then, since I was born so I yes and I've known the community quite extensively because my father was an architect. So we've lived in all sorts of different spots all the way along the coast. And yeah, it's a beautiful community and I love the nature and space and I'm very grateful to live so close to the ocean and have that be a large part of my life. For, for many years I sort of attributed my work to primarily florals being the inspiration as you were saying but I'm starting to realize just at this part of my life, how important the ocean is to my work as well. And having spent the weekend helping my kids with their sailing regatta I really, and there was that bomb bomb cyclone that was going through. I, I realized how, how much I love the ocean and how much I love wind and the that building sense of excitement and the the thrill and I feel like it just really imbues our bodies with energy. Like sort of sinks into our skin and so I'm starting to see my work being very tied to the ocean and to the it's always felt like it was part of the cycles of seasons but I think that's that's sort of being pulled out by my sense of, of love for the water and, and for storms and calm seas and everything else so it's it's can be seen a little bit in these pieces I think there's a sense of tumbling and sort of whirlwind. So, yeah, anyways, West fans a huge part of my life and, and my kids have all grown up here. It's a beautiful community and I feel blessed. And certainly, at least in terms of the last 18 months nature has has offered incredible respite, I think for everybody, we've all appreciated a little bit more, how great it is for us to be able to get outside and whatever capacity, and enjoy that so. So let's talk about the work that we have in this exhibition so the hard work of spring. We have 25 of your works in total. And for those of you who have not yet had a chance to see the exhibition it's a selection of different mixed media and works on paper. So we've got some three dimensional sculpture we've got some wall sculpture, one wall sculpture piece we have some works on paper. Bobby it I think you're going to walk around a little bit over the course of our talk tonight so you'll be able to show some other pieces and more detail but. These pieces in our exhibition really represent a snapshot of the last year and a half for you. And as I said at the beginning to me this work really represents the departure from your previous work. Do you see this as well or is that just me with my curatorial lens on. I was dabbling in collage work for about two years prior to this collection, but this is the first time I've, I've shown them so extensively and such a complete set. Before I think that I was treating my drawings as. We have exploring before I started painting and and sort of moving around ideas and and having that flexibility to basically pick up a paint fresh stroke which would normally be on a canvas and permanent but with my collages and drawings, especially with collages. It's like being able to try out different scenarios and and before I would move on to works on canvas. And so this, this is the first time I've kind of really thought of them as entities onto their own and and given them the sort of the weight and importance of an entire room. Yeah, yeah, it's drawing. Yes, I was saying became a bigger, bigger part of my life when I had a bit more room in my studio to lay things out because most of my drawings are done with oils. And they take anywhere from a week to longer some of them I've noticed are quite old and are still not dry because it gets quite thick in areas so I am. I really started having that space and the room to experiment when I moved to a bigger studio and then it started the more room I had the more experimenting I could do and. So, yes drawing has always been wasn't it wasn't a major part of my practice but over over the last five years I think it's kind of eaten up about half. So and the works that we have here, the two series so we have to complete series that we're showing. It's a jungle out there and hibernation hibernation actually predating it's jungle out there. So let's talk a little bit about the circumstances in which you created those works because you were at the very beginning of our first and second COVID lockdowns you ended up sort of working primarily from home at that period. Right, so yeah, how instrumental is COVID I guess is what I'm asking in the production of these particular pieces. I mean, I think some of the names allude to, well hibernation being that yes those first that first series I did create at home. So it did feel like we were hibernating and over the winter and the spring and. And, you know, it's a direct link to that feeling that sensation and then the opposite with the jungle out there. So like stepping outside but you never knew what we like it was just, there was so many unknowns at the beginning and still are, and that it felt very threatening and like you didn't know where the attack was going to come from so. Plus they're extremely turbulent pieces when you see them up close there's a lot of different elements budding up against each other. So I worked from home not necessarily because I couldn't go to my studio because my studio was, you know, it's a solitary space nobody else comes in there. But at the same time, my kids were home from school and I didn't feel like I could leave them for the day or even a few hours at the beginning and and defend for themselves so really I guess it was sort of like a hunkering down as a family and and it was just so close to this scale worked relatively well at home but it did take over especially with the collages because it takes. Usually how my process works is I create a series of, of different elements on, so maybe about 30 drawing somewhere more painterly some are more like sketches and I combine them so you can imagine that that takes up quite a bit when they're laying around your house and everyone's at home. But but it's interesting to note that a lot of the two dimensional a lot of the collages and works on paper that we have in this exhibition are smaller in scale than what you would typically produced in your studio generally. Oh yeah, very much so the the it's a jungle out there series like pieces behind me here. You can see either probably about 30 30 by 22 or 24 inches. And, but still, when you have 30 of them around it still takes up a lot of space and in a small house so, but it was. Yeah, it felt very comfortable to work on that scale and and to do something a bit more intimate in my more confined circumstances. Let's talk a little bit about the materials you you've sort of alluded to them and in fact the work that you were sitting in front of. It includes woodblock printing as one of the, as one of the, the media that is represented in the work can you talk a little bit about the materials in this exhibition. So, the interesting thing for me about having made drawing such an integral part of my process is that I'm finding it really exciting to sort of bend the mind's eye a little bit and what material is actually being used, because part of the game is that that almost anything can mimic anything else. Or at least I find it. I can try to do that so that there's sort of a seamlessness between different mediums and then they, so they can bend in and resemble each other and then bend out again and I first started working on woodblock prints like this piece behind me here. I'm going to pull it a little bit closer. Peter from New Leaf Editions and that was who I would say five or six years ago in the woodblock genre and having worked with him on that I, I could never get the idea of just it being a once, you know, a repetitive process. So whenever I would create one, I would love to individualize them and sort of see where I could take them elsewhere so they all ended up morphing into having oil a bar and acrylic on involved and and drawing elements and pencil. So they became, you know, unique pieces in the end so anyways I'm getting off track but what I want you to say is that with woodblock prints. For me they start with a paintbrush line of paint of paint stroke brush stroke. And, and then the way Peter and his assistants carve it is that they become these incredibly delicate and intricate lines that end up looking like drawing to me. It's double, double feature I guess it's it is a brush stroke but it kind of what looks like a drawing that's done of a brush stroke and, and it's those sort of, you know, that make your make your eye look a little bit deeper and question what's going on and sort of jolt you out of of it, what it's representing that more maybe about the materials and you know and then there's areas like in here, the where the pastel is the exact same shade as the woodblock was sort of this dirty gray. And so they're sort of mimicking each other and I've just found that it goes around in a circle for me with with painting it's whatever I do on on paper. It's, it's so unforgiving paper it's it's like such a virgin territory and once you've got the white of the paper. It's marked it can you can never really take it back. So that play that I had with paper, kind of extended over to my works on canvas because I wanted to have that same, that complete rawness and that that that truly untouched territory on the canvas and so I started painting. And after drawing so much I started trying to create that on on the canvas by my painting on raw canvas, which is the same thing it can't be reversed from you can't erase it you can't take it back. It makes everything extremely considered. While forcing myself to be free so it's a very strange experience to to force myself to be very instinctual, but know that that whatever I do there's no coming back from so it's, it's fun. I can show you a little bit about that more over on the canvas piece in the other room. So what we're going to say Hillary, I was just going to say, have you worked on rock canvass a lot previously or is this fairly new for you. It's about two years old, like to have done it so consistently. My first exhibit of more works on rock canvas were at equinox gallery in about a year and a half ago. And, and it's something that you can't really see it probably even in in a phone call or a zoom call, or I definitely don't notice it in photography but I think it's created this whole other side to painting, which is not the movement of the brushstroke or the movement of the drawing lines, or the colors, but it's sort of a madness and a sheen that completely is an exciting interplay so depends on where you're standing. There's there's this ultra matte almost light absorbing areas and then there's pieces like this that have a bit more texture to them which, which shine and pop out. So it's made them in a way more three dimensional, even though there isn't as much paint as my older work. That's the perfect say way to talk a little bit about the three dimensional work in the exhibition do you mind going back into gallery one and yeah, what maybe we'll look at toxic sentimentality the sculpture in the center of the room. Yeah. Got a nice few I don't know. So, talk us through your sculpture that you started producing. I was working on the paper works and I had done the series of drawings like hibernation which are true drawings. Moving over to the collage, which has a little bit of three dimensionality to it from the layering up and also the, the, the, the just raw pigment that's sitting on top from the oil bars. And then we have the next, like, I guess, texture added in with the woodblock print which has a 3D effect you know when it presses in so that sort of, and everything is becoming a, like slightly more a sense of space awareness and, and then having created some wall sculptures where it really starts to burst out where I'm using all sorts of materials like wood, ceramic, canvas, a lot of paper, paint plaster and kind of building up so that it's, it's like a painting. That's just become massively three dimensional. And I thought, well, it, I've never tried a freestanding sculpture before in this format I've done some bronzes in the past but I, it's not delicate and it doesn't probably make that much sense. But I, I just, the whole exhibit was how far I could push a drawing and, and to what extent can I play with that form. And so I wanted them to be delicate and I want them to have lots of areas that resemble drawing so that have that very raw, honest material. And I didn't want to cover it up and pretend it was something else. So I really like the, the drawing aspects budding up with, with some of the other materials. But I think sculptures sort of like that last frontier where it's probably, it has to be so, you know, it's, you have to look at it from all sides it has to make sense from all sides it has to be dynamic and and, and so it just really makes me think about the way light reflects on it that that's a new element for me it's different than a drawing because there's shadows created so, you know everything gets. There's just just it's like moving from photography to video or something there's just so many it's like sound is added to it now there's shadows. It's sent in there somehow it would be quite fun but it's I yeah I just, I thought I would see how far I could push that form and, and maybe with the shadows it'll go back and affect my paintings and it's, you know, new ways to play. I think it's nice it's like a, it's like a little monster sitting in the corner. And what this ones here is, is, is, I guess, a little bit less about the paper aspects and it's more about the larger plaster areas and ceramic areas, and I think that the, like we were saying at the beginning, there's, sometimes I like to think of my things not as pedals, or, but maybe more like as waves, or are just sheer momentum, and with working in these with plaster and sculpting it over my, my under forms, and carving it off and moving it around and then drawing I just, I feel like there's just a world of possibilities. And that these, these can resemble a pedal falling or something to do with nature but it also can just be the feeling of wind and I find that quite exciting. And just for the sake of clarity Bobby the the white sort of foam bits that's actually plaster that you're working with there. Yes, so these, these are plastered and painted. So they're, yeah, they have a certain amount of weight in the end. But I think it, I try and keep, I want it to still mimic the paperwork with the line drawings and and have it flow over and I think it's really interesting when you have, like for when I'm playing it's like, there's just natural connections that are made that when lines perfectly fit up and it feels like they was just meant, it was, it's like a continuation of thought. And it happens sometimes in the drawings and, and, and then the collages were two elements that are really from opposite worlds can perfectly align and be and seed off each other and sort of talk as one even though they're, you know, foreign entities. So let's talk a little bit about your titles Bobby because they're so poetic they're so evocative, and I think they are an important part of each piece. Can you tell us a little bit about how you, how you identify titles for works and what your inspiration is for those. Well, yes, and I think he saw a little bit when he first came to the studio my voice out of painting as is like, it's very subliminal process for me I'm not necessarily fully conscious of each mark. I don't think any mind could concentrate that long on on what's only visually in front it's just I think natural for your mind to wander to different areas, especially when you're creating. So, I listened to whatever, whatever influences out there in the world and the radio or podcasts or music, and quite often something it's kind of like withdrawing like it something out in the universe will just catch my attention and seem to be almost like a cosmic fit to whatever I'm, I'm working on at the time and so I keep a long list and jot it down notes of, and it's interesting when I flip back through it it's basically like my painting catalog of what I'm working on. But in between there's all these little notes with with names and titles or thoughts or maybe philosophies that have been being talked about or something in the news. And, and they somehow seem to. Maybe it's just because what my mind is drawn to the time but there seems to be sort of waves that go through it so there might be two or three months in this book of five or six pages where it seems to all be going into sort of like maybe a self pity mode and everything's connecting to that or, and then it comes out onto a very, you know, a wave of sunniness and an optimism or maybe a concern more spiritual but they do seem to read in sort of general arenas of thoughts that maybe when I stand back I can see that over a year's time where there's chunks. And so I, I pull from that when I go to name the pieces. Either during or after they're created and, and from that there seems to be an overall theme that sort of appears for the entire exhibit and it, it's, it's not like I've sat down with a preconceived notion of what I want to be saying but it just sort of emerges as do the paintings it's very similar to. There you are. It's very similar to painting in a way like I, I, I don't know what's going to come out of it I don't know the way things are going to move, and it's only when I stand it back that I kind of see an overall thread. That's that's running through everything but yeah that's what happens with the titles and I this one here is well perfect I think you mentioned that and I, I guess at the time I just thought it's like one of my major themes is decay and and and sort of the changes our own bodies goes through and, and the natural cycles and fruit and, and you know the rot that we see around us at this time of year in the fall and everything sinking back in and that's the part that I'm always drawn to the most is not always the fresh and new, it's a little bit in the spring when there's blossoms but I'm more interested in that sort of that beautiful dance as things fall. And so I think something like spoiled perfect is just feels like it's at the perfect stage of its life even though others might think it's spoiled, or if it's gone bad, or if it's past its time. So poetic. So in a minute, we're going to allow for people to write questions in the chat function so I would ask our audience to start to think about some questions that they would like to ask Bobby about the exhibition but before we do that. Bobby, I would love to hear a little bit about where you're going now and what the what the work you're producing now represents and and what are you working on for future projects in the next little while do you have a sense of that yet. Do we get to hear about what you're what you're busy with right now. Well I'm just starting. But I think that there's also like a sort of a natural tendency for me at this time of year to sink back into deeper and moodier feelings darker. So I'm hoping to get more melancholic and so I'm, I'm hoping to create some works that I think are going to end up being or hopefully they will move towards a newer simplicity, and that that they would kind of start to speak about that water thread that I had been talking in the ocean thread. And how, like, I feel like there's this is like, you know, I've talked about it before about it being like a game where the paint does something and, and then I react so that it's like this kind of chess game kind of feeling where the paint that I use has a slightly different, I guess, density and, and pigment to it and, and there's like so many infinite possibilities that it's impossible for me to predict what they're going to do when I put them together. So I'm going to add everything from how wet my canvases and how wet my brushes to how thick or thin the paint is the angle of my canvas like there's so many different possibilities that I want them to just kind of leave the way and in this a bit I'm pushing that, that, you know, giving them their independence, even a bit more than I have with the raw canvases in the back cast so I'm yeah that's what I'm going to be working towards I'm going to see how I can create works that sort of are ambulance of simplicity and but also will keep the viewer very entertained and that's something that's very important for me. I tend to, I guess, create very busy and chaotic work because I always think of these new areas that you can fall into and places to hide and different textures and, and I want whoever is viewing it to see to be a reflection of themselves and not be too literal. So I think they sometimes become very, you know, almost like, yeah, I guess just chaotic and so that's my goal is to see if I can have a little bit more restraint with the new work and and but still making it playful and and hopefully entertaining for the viewer for to be able to see it in many, many different ways. Do you anticipate working on the same smaller scale as as as it as it's a jungle out there for example the work that's right behind you do you keep will you keep working on paper at that scale. I absolutely am I was doing that all day today, and also in my kitchen because it just feels more comfortable now. I don't know why I, I, it's a new trend and my kids just were saying why are you doing this at home mom you can go to the studio but I maybe there's almost like a craftsmanship or something that feels very homey with all the the intricate cutting and like I did all the movements over the studio but now that now it's the infinite exact cutting and matching together of works that feels almost like I don't know maybe just feels more a little bit more domesticated than being in the big industrial studio space so I am doing that I am doing at home and I am trying to turn them in a different direction where there is sort of a serenity that these pieces. Perhaps don't in view. Excellent. Okay, well I think this is a great opportunity for us to address some of the questions that have come up in the chat function and I would just encourage you. If you have a question to go ahead and type that in the chat and we will try and include as many as we can. So, we, we have one question. What inspires you Bobby. So, I think maybe can you expand a little bit more on what's inspiring you at this minute what it what's at the forefront of your mind for inspiration. I mean, there's using materials that are new is exciting for me I like the experimentation of that so the just the pure material aspect of things experimentation that's that can be very inspiring having new new pastels or trying different plaster or collaborating on printmaking and then using a new way like just using diverse and sort of maybe on traditional materials in my work, it gets me excited because I like to think that I'm for myself. Going down new paths and innovating and and seeing what's possible from a subject matter point of view I think that what inspires me is as I said like very much weather change of seasons and I guess my own my own sentiments at the time you know if it's if I'm feeling somehow more joyous I like to figure out a way to express that and so, and then you know the changes these seasons are always probably the biggest indicator in my work what and and they're always changing so I always have new inspiration and now it's dark and rainy and cold and I'm going to figure out a way to find beauty in that and to to find as I said serenity and and to enjoy it for what it is and not, you know push it. And just like, like when I was painting more literal flowers, the thing that interests me about flowers originally was the use of color and the, for my, you know, it was like one of the only subjects matters I can think of that. And so, extensively can explore color and then really now I'm almost, I would consider myself comparatively monochromatic to my old days, and what really inspires me about florals is that the opening up of personalities and the crumpling down the delicacy the tissue thin. The petals and and just in just kind of I guess it's just something that we can really observe in nature and see it as as a beautiful thing and that young and fresh out of the ground is not always the complexity that I'm yearning for. So we have some technical questions that have come through. We have one audience member who would like to know how you glue together your sculpture, what material you use for gluing that together. I use a few things I at some points I will. Mostly I use acrylic medium, like the clear acrylic medium it's it's essentially like glue and and it's there and it's strong and it's archival so that's what I use. I use things in place, while I'm gluing I will pin and when pinning does not work, I will staple and then remove, and I also use giant globs of paint that also work as glue, but very expensive glue. Excellent. Another audience member would like to know if the woodblock prints are put through a press. Yes, so down on ground island with Peter at new leaf he has. I think this is about as large as his press right now will go in in studio so they are about, I wouldn't say about four by four and a half feet these woodblock prints and and they go through a press which is what gives them their interesting relief. When you look up close it's like they're almost carved in to the paper. And another question about materials, would you ever consider doing bronzes again. Yeah, well I did. I guess you're noticing I did a series of bronzes, probably about six years ago now. And I loved it. It's kind of like printmaking I can't play around and alter them afterwards and I've, I haven't found the discipline to to accept a series at this point that is repetitive I've, there's something in me that makes me want to have each one. slightly different than the last so, although with the roses that I made, they were a set series, I think of 10 different roses that could can be combined in different ways, but yeah bronze. I mean the reason I went over to the plaster and the ceramic and ceramic first yes it's super heavy and kind of awkward to use and to adhere to each other, but the scale can be so much more. First of all super immediate and, and I can create such individuality in each piece, and I'm not ever stuck with that one shape, whereas bronze once you've made the mold and you've, you've gone through that whole process you're really are, you know bound to that shape. But I'm not saying, I think it's more of a scale thing for me right now, if I can do an enormous bronze I would love to go back to bronze. Maybe you need to do some public art. I think it's time. I think that there could be some very giant brushstroke pedal crumbling bronze culture somewhere. Oh, I can't wait to see it. Bobby we've had a few people ask if you ever teach any studio classes, or if anybody has the opportunity to do any sort of any any work with you in that capacity do you do you teach classes have you taught classes or do you have any plans to in the future. Um, I have taught my kids and their friends for most of their lives, but I do not teach classes know I am. It's kind of a funny thing like, I guess because I, I taught myself I just feel like the best way to learn is through constant experimentation and, and I don't know any other way. But I do to sort of work past hurdles and, and maybe because I work that way I just feel like that's a great way for other people to work too. And, you know, every day I feel like I'm learning which is kind of exhausting but it's also really exhilarating because when I do kind of breakthrough on something I feel like it's, it's very much my own so. So part of, like, probably why I am sort of fluid and using different materials because I don't actually know how to use them because nobody's ever taught me so when I use the oil bar oil paints or, I mean I do everything. I'm not sure how to illustrate is making sure that it's archival, but besides that, you know, I haven't really taught how to, you know, say blend or mix or, or how to use just whatever material in a very specific way and I think that gives me a sense of freedom. It's like being unskilled is making me feel free. We've had a question about sort of a follow up to what you were speaking about in terms of your painting having your paintings having less paint and sort of going into a slightly more minimalistic approach. And our audience member would like to know what your path to this and your thinking to the stage and your work in terms of having less paint and using less paint. Do you want to speak a little bit to that. Yeah, I think that what I was trying to say is that I with works on raw canvas that that there's this new element that is. It's now like a different sense altogether so before we were I was saying you know, you know, most of my paint would have the same sheen it was have the same thickness and it was just all about what it was depicting. And, you know, most people enjoy texture because it looks very visceral and, and is it can be quite exciting to see the depth and the usage of paint, but why I'm drawn to. It's not necessarily less paint it's just applied differently it there's areas where it's sinking sinking into the canvas because it's raw and bleeding out and that, as I was saying it's like watching a photo develop it's moving in its own way and then it gives me something to react to. And so where I do go thick and heavy if there's more of an exciting interplay between the two it's not it's not just an overall theme, it lets one say it one thing and the other say the other thing and I think that there's. So that whole like what I was saying with the sculptures and the shadows being a new element like that you get to, you know, visually explore because they cast shadows. And it's something else to think about and what what they look like it's like with working on raw canvas and and letting areas. It's there's some are completely mad and absorbing of light and impossible to capture and look completely different in different times of the day so at nighttime I have a deep deep blue one in my my hallway and at nighttime with the light on it it almost looks pink because. So it's just much more subtle in. In what you can discover. Like the pieces I was working on today the paper works. I'm using different types of inks and and then different types of chalk pastels and chalk pastels are very, very, very mad and dusty and inks can be almost iridescent and those aren't something things you see from far so it's just feel like it's adding a different language to my work to let. The different materials speak and also for light to catch it in a different way. The long, long answer sorry. That's a very good answer. Yeah, that Bobby this is probably a good time to wrap up our questions there are some really fantastic comments in the chat function, expressing admiration for you and for your work. And some appreciation lots of appreciation for the complexity of this work that we have in this exhibition. And not to go simple then. What's that. So don't go stains and easy. I think we have a number of audience members who've known your work for quite a long time and are excited to see you enter into this, this phase this new phase as am I. So I think this is probably a great time to wrap up our conversation. I would like to finish with a big thank you to Bobby for the opportunity to speak tonight about this exhibition. And for working with us to present this exhibition the hard work of spring. I would also like to say my thanks to the staff at the West Bank of Memorial Library, Taryn or carton Kendra for helping us to present this evening. And I would like to thank you our audience for joining us. I would also like to mention that we produced a publication, which I will show you. My green screen is eating it so you can't really see it. Super good. That's so cool. What just happened there. It's pretty good. It's like disappearing or disappearing. I love it. My new magic collaging itself. I would like to say that we did produce our publication which is available for purchase for $21 and you can call us on our general number. You can email us at WV museum at Western Vancouver dot CA, or you can drop by to go ahead and make that purchase if you're interested in acquiring the publication. So again, huge thanks to everybody and to you Bobby for joining us. And I hope that you all have a wonderful evening. Thank you. Thank you, Hillary. That was fun.