 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the ICD session at the Eden Learning Week. I'm very happy to have you here to welcome you to the workshop on multi-sectoral collaboration discussing development and adaptation to ensure quality open, flexible and distance learning. Thank you, Eden, for inviting us to the Learning Week. Congratulations again for the price of excellence, ICD price of excellence that you've very well earned this year, 2021's price of excellence. My name is Anaïs-Rouine-Malbran. I'm a senior advisor at ICDE and I'm also the coordinator for the Francophone Royal Project, which we'll talk about later in this session. I also work with the membership and governance at ICDE. So those of you who are members of ICDE have probably been in contact with me as well. I'll be moderating the workshop today. So I'm very happy that your numerous participants are here today. First, a little housekeeping. So as you've seen, the session is recorded. Eden will keep the recordings and I'll share with you later. This session is scheduled for 90 minutes. And if you don't want to be recorded, then just let your microphone and camera off. So then we will be in the recording. This workshop has come together as a response to an increasing need to build strong of the sectoral relationships. We've seen it through our partnerships, our project. The project we've been working in developing within the ICD community. And we thought that this could be a good way to showcase this important collaboration. As an actor global, within open, flexible and distance learning, ICDE, now more than ever, see the need to strengthen ties and collaboration between sectors, such as higher education, the private sector, government bodies, and others. And the tech sector is a major player within education, without whom many of our new commonly used tools and methods in education would not exist. Many will question the alignment of interests between sectors, especially those of private sectors and NGOs, for instance. But we feel it's time to let this go. Today we'll discuss and learn more about the potential, the immense opportunities, specific needs to achieve larger goals, and specifically in achieving the sustainable development goal number four on quality education. And the number is 17 on partnerships, the UN sustainable goals. And in an increasingly connected world with increasing opportunities for development and impact, we will hear from two ICD projects who are using multi-sectoral collaboration as a key strategy for success. We have invited Jacques Donk, the Secretary of the French Digital University, he's a devoted OER enthusiast for several years as the Secretary of AUNESH as well, which is a French thematic digital university in economics and management, as the Secretary of the French Digital University, and as a member of the Digital Accreditation Committee of Conferences Consecoles. He has devoted himself to developing partnerships of French high education with European high education institutions and major player in open education such as ICD, but also open education global. And we are a foundation. Jacques is very connected in the open education, and he's also the co-facilitator of the Franco-Follower expert group, which you'll learn more about today. The second panelist is Alain Nesson, Strategic Customer Success Manager at Instructor Global Elimited. He currently supports large and complex institutions to maximize value and educational, organizational impact for their attack investments. Provided to this role, he led the e-learning team at the University of Ulster, where he also delivered a number of UK national projects in the areas of LMS, labor integration, learning design models, and approaches to promote curriculum innovation. He is also part of the Encore Plus Team, the second project you'll learn about today, coordinated by ICD. He provides expert insights from a private sector perspective in the Encore OER ecosystem project. And the third and final panelist is our very own, also very linked to Eden. She's a newly re-elected ICD board member, very happy about that. She's the chair of the OER Advocacy Committee and a global expert on OER. She has served in a variety of boards and has a long list of published articles and is a very active participant in the OER community. So welcome to all our speakers, panelists, participants. The session today will consist of a presentation from the two invited speakers, Shakdan and Alad Masam. And after this, we'll have an open floor for Q&A. We ask you to send your questions through the chat or just raise your hands and directly connect with the panelists and speakers. And we'll then move to the panel discussion, after which we will also have a Q&A session so that you can extend on the specific discussion within the panel. And we'll finish just with closing words. So please feel free, I've done that already, to introduce yourself in the chat. And we'll start just now with a short introduction of ICD. And then I'll let the speakers talk. So I'll just share my screen very quickly. Let's see if you can see it well. For those of you who don't know ICD yet, this is just about the participants, but now we've introduced them. ICD is a very old organization. We've been creating in 1938. So we've been here far away. It's a global non-for-profit NGO and also a membership association. We are hosted and partly founded by Norway since 1988 and we are in formal consultative partnership with UNESCO. The vision of ICD in our latest strategic plan, 2021-2024, is to achieve the potential of open, flexible and distance learning created through our members and learning communities. We have a global outreach. So we have more than 300 members across the world, touch more than 70 countries in all our visions. And it's estimated that our members' impact over than 15 million students across the continents. We have, we are as a strategic priority in the last strategic plan, which I mentioned earlier. And we have three main actors within the OER community, which is the OER Advocacy Committee, which is carried out by Sunilson. The ICD Francophone OER project, which I'll just link in UNESCO our key partners and that Jack will present to you later. And of course, which is financed by the European Union and which Alamosa will talk about later in this session. We are a very small secretariat, very few people, so we need our community to achieve our goals. And that's the strength of ICD really. We work with members, with partners who are institutions, higher education institutions, also in the private sector. Individuals, experts, faculty, students, association like EDEM, skip partner, regional, but also global institutions, global associations. And we work at different levels. Policy, mainly with UNESCO, but also Commonwealth of Learning, for instance, and other IGOs. We work with advocacy and leadership. So our members, we are directly connected with the leaders and with our partners. We also work at the very leader level, but at other levels too, with the students, with some individual experts. And we also keep sharing knowledge and practice of open, flexible, and business education with expert members, partners through events, webinars, publications, journals. I mean, we are constantly connected and sharing. So the global diversity broadens our perspective. That's really the strength of ICD, the global aspect of it. The personal connections, the collaborative on opportunities across borders and sectors that we keep building, that we keep finding, and that's something also that keeps the community alive. And the increased impact. So of course we join forces, the advocacy campaign through the leadership that gives impact of the activities that we take. And we learn through sharing expertise, practice all the time. You're very welcome to join the community. You can become a member, of course, individual, student, or institution. I will share this PowerPoint, so then you will have the link to directly as part of this letter to become a member. You can follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, on our blog, and join a lot of practices, which you can read, but you can also participate. There is a call for articles every four times a year. Our editor can select, and the editorial board selects it. So also check it out and feel free to respond to the calls. You can reach us at the general security address or directly at malpren.icb.org. So now I will give the floor to Jacques Dong so that he can present you the microphone or your project. Jack, your microphone is on mute. I hear you. And I think everyone else if it's possible if everyone else can mute their microphone, that will also be helpful. Thank you. Jack, do you hear us? I'm sorry. I can't hear you. Can you hear me? But I can't seem to have the control of my presentation. Oh, okay. Do you want me to share it for you? Yeah, that would be great. Okay, yeah. So we can just stop sharing and I'll open it first. Sorry, it's always a few... There, do you see it? Yeah, thank you so much. I apologize to all of you. I haven't activated my video because today my broadband network is not so good. So thank you, everyone, for being here. So this is... I'll be talking about a multi-sectoral approach for strategy for OER in a specific area of the globe. So multi-sectoral has several meanings. So in this presentation, I will focus on the public sector and on the government level as well as on the higher education university level. And I will also focus on a specific area of the world, which is Francophone countries in West Central Africa. So what I will be saying is definitely not applicable to a country that is completely different, such as the US, with a completely different approach. So the Numerique des Numeriques, the French Digital University, is federated six areas, systematic areas, business economics, health care and sports, science, technology, humanities and sustainable development. Next slide. So we are involved in a number of international partnerships, the two most important ones being, of course, ICDE and UNESCO Dynamic Coalition. But we are also to one of our thematic areas, members of Eden. And we are also involved in many conferences. These are the ones we've been participating this year in. And we also involved in a number of European Union funded projects around themes like virtual mobility, mutual recognition agreements and also digital credentials. So moving on to the next slide, we have a number of partnerships with French-speaking countries in Africa, 13 of them out of about 24, so about half of them. We are sharing resources with them. We are setting up emergency pandemic platforms for higher education as in Congo. And we also cooperate with traditional universities in Senegal and in Togo. So we have a range of partnerships which are very diverse with these different companies. Moving on to the next slide. Thanks to ICDE, we have launched, we have participated in the launch of the ICDE Francophone OER project with the Open Education Leadership Summit in 2018 in Paris. And our first face-to-face meeting about 18 months ago in Paris. So we are grouping a number of institutions that we can see on the next slide, which are traditional universities, virtual universities, international NGOs such as ICDE, Organization Internationale de la Francophonie. And with a very strong support from the French partner, the Digital University, the Ministry of High Education Research, the French National Commission and the French University of Nantes. So on the next slide, these are the four main areas of action through the OER recommendation by UNESCO with a strong focus by ICDE on capacity building and supportive policies. So I'll be talking a little bit more about these two areas. In the next slide, we will see that we will one initiative in capacity building. It's about adapting a course on copyright, IPR and credit common licenses that was developed by the OERU network in New Zealand. And it is a course that is offered to the global community for free. So we had the course translated by extremely good linguists at UNESCO. We managed the technical adaptation in the Francophone context. And very importantly, we also managed the integration of a civil law approach in addition to the common law approach. So in the next slide, we'll see why that integration is important because in the next slide, you can see the distribution of civil law and common law systems. Not all are very homogeneous, but you can see that in blue, the civil law countries represent a number of countries, whereas the common law countries in pink also represent a large part of the developed world. So moving on to the next slide. There are differences in civil law and common law. The civil law approaches focuses on intellectual property rights, which is a perspective based on the author, whereas copyright in common law focuses more on the work that you can or not reproduce. Overall, these two approaches are very compatible. There are a few limitations. One of them is very important. A creative commons license is something that is non-revocable. On the other hand, the moral right of an author is also something that cannot be revoked. So through this course, we had to adapt to the continent-wide Africa, the regional adaptations and specific countries. And also conflict resolution is also different in civil law systems and common law systems. In civil law, you have a rigid hierarchy of norms which make conflict resolution straightforward and involves a simple and notification from one level to the other. Moving on to the next slide. We have learned a number of lessons. We have learned that it's important that we have an extremely good linguistic adaptation especially on things that seem to be similar which are completely different, which is IPR also slides on the one hand and copyright on the other hand. Cultural adaptation is also extremely important, technology, and we have to be at the very high level in the generic legal systems, but we also have to address regional and national frameworks and how we can reward it, how we can account for the time span by individual teachers and with respect to the statutes of civil servants. And finally, what we have learned that it's a very enthusiastic process and that we are envisioning extending to other languages, mainly Portuguese in Africa. Moving on to the next slide. We are seeing that we have a first session of the course which will be held from November 17 to the end of the month with a facilitator. So it's a synchronous session, the first one of them that will be held. This course will be facilitated by the University of Virtual University of Senegal and it can bring you the people who've registered a digital badge rewarding your competency in copyright IPR and Creative Commons licensing. So I think that whoever is interested, you can register on the link which is on the slide and which will be made available to the Eden Secretariat. Moving on to the next slide. We see that in all these conferences, in all these webinars, we have a multidisciplinary approach in the high education institutions. We have academics, we have researchers, we have librarians, people from the audio video world and from the IT departments. I would like to mention that we don't see so much of people from norms and standards, from bodies such as IMS, CN workshop or the SC36 committee ISO, IEC on learning technologies. This reflects what is done in high education in government departments. It's quite different. There is actually no multidisciplinary approach as we can see in the next slide. We can see that there is sometimes a collaboration between education K-12 and high education. Sometimes, but not enough between education and labour and professional training ministries because we are dealing with issues important such as competencies, skills, national qualification frameworks. We also have a wide diversity of ministries that have special training institutions which are in charge of infrastructure and we also have ministries that are in charge with things like copyright, IPR licenses, justice and culture and also ministries that deal with the world trade organization and the world international property organization and I haven't seen even in France any academic willing to deal with the French representatives in these international bodies and of course the ed tech sector but our colleague from Uncomplus project will be talking about the viewpoint from the private sector. So, moving on to the next slide we also have an approach we can see that the national general interest can be multifaceted. Of course we support free and open source software in high education in France. We have a GC that has developed an open source software for video conferencing but we also have a proprietary system, CATIA for the airspace industry that involves 16,000 people 16,000 employees around the world so we have to take these two facets into account. At the same time from the cultural ministry we protect works of art through restricted licensing but on the other hand these protection make it difficult for our colleagues from the UNESCO chair on OER to do data mining on these intellectual works. So these are two different approaches that we must combine when we're speaking of national strategy. So moving on to the next slide we can see that specific issues are the high education sector in these countries. They are very centralized and they have national tenure track systems, national degrees so we have to need for a coherent multi-sectoral government approach. Moving on to the next slide we can see also specifics of the OER landscape in these countries. There are not so many OER in France so we need to have a good to ensure the availability of OER sustainability and the low-term content relevance. I've discussed about the legal context and these reasons make it necessary for us to build a lasting and trusting relationship with the authors while at the same time having the coexistence of open education and government-sponsored and commercial initiatives. So the moving on to the next slide the main areas for work and for multi-sectoral approach from the public sector we need to work on infrastructure of course, the legal framework, the administrative framework recognition and qualification frameworks. All these are baby steps at the national level with a top-down approach but a top-down approach which is compatible with the specifics of these countries. We also need to work on the other hand with the harmonization at the regional level. We need to learn to work on the bottom-up approach or horizontal approach with individual educators and learners. The next step in our view for capacity building is setting up a leadership school for decision makers in public organization involving civil servants regarding bodies of high education institutions and heads of teaching and research department. So these are the next steps that we are envisioning for capacity building with ICD and UNESCO and I thank you very much for your attention. I'll stop sharing. Thank you very much for this very interesting presentation. If you have already questions, you can have them in the chat. This is a message to participants. I'll move on to the next presentation and we can take a Q&A at the end of both. So keep your questions or publish them in the chat and we'll take that moment after the presentation. So Alan, please, the floor is yours. Your microphone, Alan. I was just checking if everybody could hear me then and I realized my microphone was off. Let me just go back a slide. So good afternoon everybody. So next 10 minutes I'm going to try to share some information around the Onco Plus project. It really is designed to be a multi-sectoral collaboration to kind of look at key challenges around OER. So I'm part of the consortium membership of it. So I'm here to share both information about the project and also what we see is the key challenges. So just to give an idea of the agenda, introduction of the project, who we are. Key thing is why are we doing it? What's the key challenges we're trying to address? What's the approach we're trying to address? How we build in multi-sector perspectives into the approach? And what do we hope to achieve? Do we have some conversation for later on? What are some of the challenges we're seeing from the canvas and structure perspective? Okay, so Onco Plus, there's the URL for it. I'll share that in the chat in just a minute. Okay, so it's basically funded by the European Commission under Rasmus Plus and it's really trying to support the uptake increase the uptake of open educational resources. And it's also about trying to catalyze innovative practice so that we can start to build momentum around how things are done. Final thing is it's really about building stakeholder communities in order to build up the knowledge exchange so we can move things forward as well. So those are the kind of three pillars underneath the project. Who are we? Why we're in the group will become evident later on, but the key thing to highlight is it's a strong blend of universities that have a strong track record in working with OERs and researching about OERs and also some vendors and corporate perspectives on things. So in structure is my employer we also have Juro in Norway so we're a good mix of people who are in the business of trying to utilize, promote and deliver OERs to end users. It's a project but what's the challenges trying to address? Well it's a number of key challenges. The highest one is there's a fragmented approach that we are. They're hosted everywhere it's hard to map where they're at and it's quite frankly quite hard to find what you're looking for if you're a busy academic trainer or facilitator. So to kind of unpick that defragmentation we've kind of identified some supporting challenges. One is how do we support strategies to actually promote and embed a culture of OER usage. Second one is how do we build quality paradigms and assurance mechanisms so that people have confidence in what resources are there why are there the relevance to people. Next is what are the interoperability challenges, what are the technical challenges around connecting things up so that we can get a good pipeline of resources going into OERs but also a good pipeline of usage and awareness of end users without having to invest too much time and learning about the OER frameworks. And then the final challenges how do we create conversations so that people can start to bring in innovative approaches and business models actually better use OERs. So those are the key challenges space that we see the project trying to address. And our kind of approach is to kind of map those to some common themes. So we've kind of baked it down into four key areas. Policies and practice, quality technology innovation and business models. So that gives us what we feel are natural conversation hubs which pick up the conversations around those key challenges. And what we hope to do is this is a way of crowdsourcing how to bring together best practices that work and identify innovative practices in these areas to move forward. And what we're trying to take is a circle strand of communication hubs to share best practices and learn new things and bake them around these areas of policy practice, quality technology and innovation and business models. And how are we trying to do this? So first of all is establishing these thematic circle communities and starting to create a way of building these communities up and having events to have these things starting to share innovation practices and ideas. And those are going to act as hubs for innovation so we can capture things and share things. And hopefully what we will do will enhance the educational ecosystem through findings, recommendations and networks that we build from these interactions that were taking place just now. As you can see, we've got the four circles. First of all on this, on the policy and strategy, it's really looking at what are the institutional strategies? What, how are institutions looking to use them? What's the things that are promoting them? Who are the key actors and what are we doing around quality paradigms? How do we actually, how do we escalate things and share things and what basis do people understand? Why they can use things and what basis? Technology circle, yes let's get some technology demonstrators but really talk about what changes need to take place in the standards to help these things work better. And finally that innovation hub around innovation. Where are there innovations and different perspectives? So what would we like to achieve in three years time at the end of the project? I think the first thing is there's a lot of interest in practice that works at a micro level so it's really identifying what actually works in organizations and sharing those out. There are challenges on the tech side in particular, how to actually cross-search and surface stuff to end users. So a lot of the things around getting new vision to be adapted and promoted. Starting to build open, distributed and trusted quality review strategies and searchable strategies so that when things are shared they can be easily found by end users. And if we can do that we're working towards a more transparent in particular EU open educational resource ecosystem. And the underpinning things that we want to try and do with that is if we do get those things in place it starts to generate a bit of an innovation conversation in area and also we can start to generate fresh approaches and ideas which hopefully builds up some entrepreneurs and startup scenes around trying to use these things. So that's where we hope to get to in three years. Where are we just now? Well the good news is we're in the early stages of the project we've just launched our first circle events and starting to establish a time to join the conversation share the best practices influence the project with your ideas challenges and where we can go next. So this is a perfect time to share what we're doing with people like yourselves. Okay in structure is an LMS vendor. We actually provide solutions to higher education K-12 to training organizations, NGOs and voluntary sectors. So we really are an end user where people can create courses to deliver. So OER is something that people want to use in their courses and as a vendor that provides that we see a couple of big challenges. One is when people go looking for something it's very fragmented. How do you find OER to build into your course? So who actually maps out the space and how can people discern which resources out there are right for them both in terms of legal opportunity to use cultural context and curriculum alignment. And then the second bucket of work is it's interesting to do that but how do we need to work on a standards base so these things are scalable across multiple systems because if we don't help teachers find things naturally we really have to rely on teachers being OER aware and they have to be able to find and embed content themselves and that's going to be a challenge and continue the current low awareness and adoption. So that's a very brief 10 minute guide to the project. For more information www.oncoreproject.eu is the place to go. You can learn more information about things and sign up to the circle events and keep up to date and join us when we're doing things. Thank you very much. Thank you Alain. Thank you Jacques. I'll now open the floor for questions. I have a few myself. I don't know if anyone from the public has an immediate question to the speakers. I've seen just like questions about more presentations so I just didn't secret there. I'd answered that on the chat but then I'll just ask myself maybe just one question to Jacques first and then to Alain. Jacques in the collaboration with the other stakeholders in the sectoral collaboration you've been involved in what would you say is the biggest lesson learned what any unforeseen surprises or unforeseen benefits you've encountered in your experience? Well it's a very pragmatic lessons. There's no superiority in a top down versus a bottom up or horizontal approach. We need to listen to all players. We need to understand them. That's one thing. But then at some point in time in a specific ecosystem and I'm talking the specific Franco-Africans ecosystem which is hierarchical below which is in French we need to take decisions. I would say that having worked at the European level as in the Encore Plus project dynamics there are more about cooperation, about sharing but it's also about listening and about understanding what the various stakeholders would like to have. So listening taking a decision and also having a roadmap because there are things that you can do in the short-term there are things you can do in the medium-term and you can't do them all. But what I have learned a lot about FASTWIS especially from working with the ICD partners and working with UNESCO and everyone is that listening to all the people and working together with them is extremely important. So it's very it's not a very rich or very unusual or very enlightening answer but it's one that comes from a lot of experience and thankfully a lot of good experience with UNESCO and ICD. Thank you Jacques. Very interesting answer and food for thought. Alan maybe for you maybe a provocative one, I don't know he'll tell me. Is OER still mostly for enthusiasts? Is it easy to reach out to relevant stakeholders outside of the more narrow OER enthusiasts? Because don't complies with the circles, I mean the idea is really to think together to get people to think together. What's your point? I think the most interesting share is I've been involved in things like repository projects and everything before going back maybe 15 years and the project was prepared before pre-COVID but when we started the project was post-COVID and I think what was really surprising was OERs was actually totally different from what the project was intended around. I think there was an expectation of we were trying to push a big rolling stone up a hill, we're trying to get more coordination but actually COVID brought a huge expectation and demand from end users to say where's the content we want to use, we want to share content with others but this content we want to share with anybody and how can we find this stuff. So there's actually a big demand pool coming from all sectors around how can we do this better because we want to do it. So we kind of feel the project is actually super timely just now because there is an appetite for change. But what the project is also very cognizant of is it's all quite joined up. As Jacques kind of said it's not just the question of showing people what they can use, it's what's culturally relevant, what's in language, what are they allowed to use under certain things. So things like the quality perspective as well as the policy perspective of who curates this and how do we trust what's going on. Those are the things that can make things happen easily because ultimately the problem space is busy people are trying to find something useful for them and how do we make it easy. Thank you Adam, very interesting. I see that we have now a question from M. Jiao in the chat for Jacques. What are the Portuguese speaking countries involved in the project? I collaborate with the Angolian institution for several years that are beginning to define their ICT strategies. Certainly it will be important to follow the involvement of the project. What are the possibilities? Well we're definitely very much interested in the Portuguese language because we have partnerships with people in the Mozambique and Angola as well as a net tech company in Portugal and of course ICT was supposed to host their conference in Natal with last year so we believe that there is a strong need for non-English and non-mandering languages to develop their own ecosystem. So capacity building is an important issue and we're willing to expand these resources to share our lessons learned and to work with ICT and UNESCO to adapt and of course we have developed for France French language to also the Portuguese language. If we were not working with Africa Spanish would be a more natural choice but we have partners in Africa in Portuguese speaking countries as well in Brazil so that would be our language of choice to invest in for the next project. Thank you Jack. I published a link of the project on the chat and I'll share also again the link and the course to reduce your interest I'll share it during the panel session. If there is no more questions from the public now we can actually move on to the panel session and then introduce Eva also to the floor. Welcome Eva. Thank you. I'll then start with you on the first question maybe for the final discussion to give you the floor to give you the chance to start with a discussion too and how much do you think sorry what can be done in terms of multi-sector collaboration to help busy people and different audience find OER resources that meet educational goals and subject and cultural context required more quickly and effectively from your point of view. Yes, thank you that is a quite hard question to answer because I think there is not just one solution for that as we have heard already from the speakers there's no one size fit also and we really need to listen to those who to the individuals and the learners and the end users but I totally agree that it is quite difficult to find and to find proper OERs out there so that is also one reason why we maybe have more production that we actually need it is not so much about refining or re-adapting or recontextualize all the other 5Rs which are along with OER so I think that has been much more to be done on that sector but I don't have the answer really to do it more than but I think that the Encore Plus project will give us some solutions and some tools because how to find different kind of ways where to find and how to share and to also network around resources is important and then maybe one thing also about along to this question is that I really would like more collaboration with the learners and the students in collaborating with both use and reuse and adapting of OERs and also of course to work more with other entities and networks and I think the real challenge with OER is to move outside the classroom outside the course and outside the institution to really reach the end users because the life from learners I mean in that way that respect because OER is about human rights and social justice for everyone and also exclusive people who can afford to go to some kind of formal institution with much more OER use in informal settings I can stop there. Thank you Eba, yes I mean it's when now we've heard about the project and it's true that it's also your perspective gives us more inputs from the other kind of collaboration from the OER Advocacy Committee that you're chairing it's trying to look into really the benefits of the collaboration within OER we also forgot to mention at the beginning that ICD is also very much involved in the World Dynamic Coalition Network of Open Orcs so there's different networks in which we evolve and which you're also very involved Eba and the University of Munich also is part of the Dynamic Coalition so it's kind of the universe of experts that we evolve but there's also this need to involve more actors and that's what we discussed today, the multi-sectoral collaboration within the project but also within the different groups in which... Maybe I can just mention for the audience that those who may be not so familiar with OER Advocacy Committee we are as Anais was saying in the beginning committing out for the third year and we work along with the ICD strategy plan of course and also all the work with other networks under those issues and we have ambassadors from all regions of the world so of course there is this, we also as ambassadors work with different kind of stakeholders for the multi-sectoral sectors so that is of course important but it is not just well saying like that nothing will happen without people and it is needed with the people sharing and communicate advocate etc etc but of course there need also be some kind of formal instrument or tools or ways but in the end of the day it is very much about people how we advocate about it and how we share our resources and how we share the importance of open education and OER and not at least along to the OER recommendation because that is really the tool we have and I think that is important every time we talk about OER that we align it to the OER recommendation and also now the forthcoming recommendation on open science of course because they are also linked to each other thank you and also it is worth mentioning also for the map so OER is a European collaboration but that aims, that has a global aim to collaborate with people outside Europe but it is a European network the Francophone group is Francophone speaking countries so France, African countries mainly Senegal, Congo and Mali but also now we have included Côte d'Ivoire and many other Francophone countries and we are in contact with New Zealand also through the course and the OER AC the OER Advocacy Committee of ICD is global so representative from every region of the world and we are in collaboration as well so that you see the strength and as Eva said as I think all the speakers said today the strength is the collaboration the people behind the collaboration and the knowledge that each other is experienced in each other environment can learn to the other partners I have another question maybe to all now I just let you react as you wish and I think all of you could actually give us a very interesting point very interesting point of view on the matter and it is about the standards what accommodation in standards do we need to think about to be best integrated across the wide learning and development spectrum use for cases and systems so I mean the legal aspect so that's one standard I'll let you react on this I'll go first in this one I think there are some parts of the framing are actually quite good so things like creative commons can provide a good reasonable set of framework around on what basis is it being shared, how can people use it and there's some tracing of where it's come from I think when you look at why people choose things be it a busy student or be it a busy member of staff I think they tend to look for reassurance that it's good for them and I think when you look at research communities separate from teaching communities it's pure recognition I think if you're an academic creating a new course for reading lists you tend to look at reading lists of similar courses so you're looking for that pure recognition and I think one of the challenges around repositories is how do we get that pure recommendation, pure understanding of who's been using it where it's been used before because I think in other types of learning assets that surface a bit easier in research community it's published somewhere so you can get that network but can we get that reassurance of where it's been used so people can find things relative to them quicker I think the other thing is building sustainable upwards so we have a content management system in our system which allows sharing so you create a course in your own course, you can share it with your own courses but you can share it with colleagues or your school or your institution or maybe you're in a consortium with the University of X and you can share that with that university but that's people creating a resource, find it useful share it with people on a structured basis where they hit a bit of a problem is well I want to share it with everybody so where does it go and how do I make that known so I think it's having natural pipelines up into repositories and having that discovery tool of how to find things I would like to share a memory I was a few years ago I was in Genoa in Italy at Eden Conference speaking with practitioners and researchers and then I took a flight back to Paris and then moved on to Busan in South Korea for the ISO 36 Subcommittee on Learning Technologies well the people were talking about the same thing but they were saying very different things they could not be understood from one side or the audience to the other I think that perhaps listening to both sides would be useful understanding also that well norms and standards mean different things to people you know free open source software we move on fast, Moodle is the standard H5P is an upcoming standard well ISO and IMS is in the business of selling standards documental standards ISO is in another different world with IDTF and there we can see battles between the Koreans, the Japanese and the Chinese about the future of industry standards but industry standards are not widely adopted yet so I think standards, norms as opposed to what they may be in the engineering sector today they are good guidelines they are inspirational they are not really strong rigid standards to which you must idea, on the other hand understanding why people work in such a way at ISO or at IMS or at the same workshop in Europe can be enlightening and also seeing how people bypass these standards at Jubel at Moodle is also quite interesting I may like to continue so maybe I would like to continue on this track I work a lot on quality development and quality enhancement as well and everyone is talking what is quality and what is standard sometimes I think it is really difficult as you are saying standard, first of all standard the word standard means so different things around the globe so maybe we are not actually talking about the same kind of things when we are talking about standards and then also as I also said before you also said there are different kind of maybe guidelines or frameworks we have the credit comments for example we have now we have the recommendation and all the dimensions within that and we have the 5R and I would like to maybe add two more R's and that is about recognition how do we really recognize staff and people using and also produce or maybe advocate about it that is not a standard so to say nowadays because that is not done, recognition and the other one is about recontextualize from one of my former ambassadors from India about language and also it is not just about language the word by word but it is also very much about contextualize it to your own culture because you need to understand the culture and the tradition and the country and you have seen that extremely visible in this lead with this leader French course for example so it is so much more and also I would like maybe to to cite our colleague Rory McQueen because he has a very important point about this issue and that is I mean can we really have a standard for OER because the beauty of OER is that it is moving all the time so to say because it is peer reviewed it is changed, it is adapted it is maybe re-changed, it is maybe recontextualized it is maybe all this kind of processes so the peer review aspect is very much important because if something is used to a very high extent then other people would like to use it as well as we do for example with TripAdvisor as we do with Amazon as we do with a lot of those kind of other sectors outside the institution and then there is some kind of embedded standard as well because I as a teacher academic researcher I have my standards I don't produce or let something go out which I'm not satisfied with neither with my institution put the name on it if they are not really satisfied about it and if it is good not good enough no one of you will use it so then I know it is bad or maybe I know it is good so it is some kind of process so maybe we need more to talk about how we are and how this can maybe give us our guidelines or frameworks and as you said also Shaq we had the legal aspects we have a lot of frameworks which need to go together so to say so again there is no one size fit also thank you Abba just to pick up one final point I was on IMS when the reading list standard was generated and I think things like this it is important that we do get some influence into things like IMS because unless you have some minimum codification that allows things to be searchable by different systems then it means you can never connect something like Canvas or Moodle to search something because all the vendors are using different systems so if we need to get a minimum standard to allow some of that discovery and I think that is the challenge that Abba was going to highlight we need to find some way of a minimalist let's get these things at least codified so that they can be surfaced exactly thank you Shaq maybe just one last question for you Shaq has to leave us so a quick one on the future what you see are the developments within the distance what is the most flexible education what is the most intriguing and exciting developments that you think will happen and that will require much more collaborative collaboration oh well that is two completely different things reconciliation between the people who traditional proponents of open and distance education and experts and those who just through the pandemic are starting doing things on their own and well made emergency distance education which was not as good as what the theorists were telling them that's only one side on the other side but what I've been dreaming for the past 20 years is being about immersed physically in the learning environment so perhaps on there I'll be immersed in a 3D technology having courses that are able to touch the content and manipulate it and get feedback from it so that's one of my dreams thank you Shaq thank you so much for participating Shaq has to leave now and you can write to him on the chat or take contact if you have any questions specific thank you maybe Alain and Eva do you want to have your answer to the future what do you see how do you see that communication will evolve and why will it continue needing sectoral cooperation Eva first Alain I've said you're a good poker player Eva from what I can see in some of the discussions in the Oncour project I think there's two few things that are getting quite exciting I think there's a realisation that there's people who want this to work and they're not necessarily people who are engaged with the OER conversations just now there are people who are national champions there's nations trying to promote greater use of OER so there's government agencies education groups and whatever trying to actually actively promote them which puts a stakeholder in that can help some of that curation and facilitation layer and also people like librarians in their role in assisting people to both do the curation at the end user point and also play a role within institutions to promote these things because ultimately unless teachers, trainers and facilitators are aware of what's possible they'll never think about using it so I think bringing different stakeholders in and seeing that it aligns to their role is an interesting component and I think that's quite exciting because traditionally it's been OERs over here and end users are over here and there's a bit of a gulf I think the second thing is people want to share and want to understand how they can share and I think that's starting to drive the conversations around quality badgings not the right word but how do we surface things so it's got a value in the open education resource community which is useful and that kind of correlates with the technology side around there's a big appetite to somehow cross walk what's there and make it visible to people who so they can easily repurpose be it just a student or a member of the public that's looking for something useful or someone with a structured learning activity so I think there's those three things kicking around different stakeholders getting engaged a more motivation to help people get things into the OER community and that helps surface some things and how do we bring things together to the end user thank you so I would like to continue with I really want would like to see for the future and then with that I mean the future which started which started yesterday that we have to really be serious when we are talking about those issues so what is the real question we are trying to real challenges we are trying to solve and that is the most important I mean we can't just talk about all we are because we like it we think it's good except what you were saying Alan we are a bunch of enthusiasts who really understand what it is but those who really need it maybe don't have the same kind of perspective we really need to see what are the real challenges we are trying to solve and one of the challenges is with the STD-4 which is built on human rights and the social justice for all people and also when the recommendation of OER was launched and adopted by all the member states it was said that working with openness and with OER is the only way to reach the goal of the STD-4 because to educate all the people out there who needs qualified education we need to build one university a day and that is not feasible it is not desirable so the only way is that we need to collaborate on the resources and the competencies we have and this is one way we can do that so that is what I really would like to see to see a very strong and serious not just debate because it is really now the time to walk the talk and not just to talk about it and for that we really need to as you were saying Alan as well and I think that has been very clear during this webinar that we need to involve all the stakeholders and not at least the end users and also to see the whole ecosystem of it because it is not just about technology but the 5 Rs it is not just about that it is really needed to see the ecosystem and to see the full picture but most of all as I also said earlier in my introduction that the real challenge is to move outside the institution because it is most of those people outside the institutions the life from learners who can't afford to go to formal education who need the open-ass and qualified resources which they can use for their initiative about futures of education so that people can become what they would like to become with all those qualified resources and also again what this paper tax money should go back to the taxpayers and the taxpayers are the people out there an interesting connection to that so I heard this story last week so it's a large university in the US which their dean had a very social inclusion agenda so their big driver this is how stakeholders can drive things their big driver was they felt that their students they were bringing on a social inclusion basis and just the general student community could not afford the textbooks and stuff they were being asked to do so they had a big agenda to drive to open textbooks and where that was not possible to basically sweat the publishers down so that every student only paid an affordable subscription for all their books they delivered that and the uptake of educational resources and student satisfaction went through the roof so again it's that who's driving the use and if you look around Europe most universities especially post-COVID now have a big social inclusion agenda how do we make what we provide as accessible to everybody both on an affordable basis and accessibility basis as well so again I think that's an opportunity that's quite timely for this conversation it is very timely because so much research has shown I have myself been involved in several global research studies around the globe with many countries involved and research is involved and it has really been shown and I think all of you who are in this webinar has been that as well the collaboration and the ways of collaboration has really really increased and also of course the use of open material, open sources et cetera and the culture I think it is very much a question of culture and due to COVID I mean in one way fortunate but COVID is so terrible so I don't even would like to speak about it but it has forced us in some directions to have this to develop this culture of collaboration of sharing of networking and also of course of bringing in openness in so many different kind of directions so just keep us going and as I said the future started yesterday so we have to just move on I think so sorry if I could just tidy up one point from what I was saying because I think we've seen the same thing from the on-court project there's different stakeholders now categorize them as two different ones there's facilitators actually we would like to make this happen and there's drivers we need to make this happen and the drivers are the more important ones because if they are empowered and can have messages to share we want to do this this is how we do it that helps drive everything else sorry sometimes we need to to see I hear very much from my ambassadors for example where we are meeting and we used to meet each other once a month so we meet each other quite often to share experiences and I hear from many countries that also the drivers are coming from the users in many countries and that is why things are happening for example many countries in Africa the demand are coming from the learners and the students and of course the cost as you were saying and it's one of the drivers so to say because they can't afford it maybe in which countries where education is free of charge as in my own country for example it is it is not so natural and not so strong drivers maybe but of course there are different kind of cultures in each country but when the driving is coming from the users I think maybe a bit faster and what about the teachers what do you think because I have seen in the Francophone project for instance there's been also this discussion about the material maybe not in Covid but sometimes it can be competitive the material that is open so I think there is a lot to advocate for many different stakeholders so I think I think there is a lot to advocate for the educational system and also another question about what's the role of artificial intelligence in this because you're talking about the drivers I mean other projects also very much about innovation and we talked about the adaptation of OER material there is also this need of advocacy about really how to adapt to what their needs that's really the strong potential of OER but it will take one university to be created a year to meet the need of educational need today in the world but to adapt OER what is existing at least for the Francophone project that's been also a question it is extremely important what you are saying Anais about AI and more three-dimensional resources I mean all these kind of new things we can't just see OER as one track in a constantly developing society so to say with a lot of technology and digitalization and a lot of other kind of challenges and also for example blockchain and OER that is also one issue when you can track the development of OER resources for example using blockchain and that is still a very new area although we have had both for a very long time so that is also a new sector so to say which we have to dig into for the marketing for the creation there is more and more potential and I wanted to ask you about what you thought about the potential of AI yeah a lot of potentials we just have to face it it has there is a bit of a virtuous circle but also an un-virtuous circle because I think there is potential for especially once you understand trends and usage and everything else but there is also a big privacy push as well so people are actually a bit concerned around how their data is being used to support things so there is a kind of counterbalance to yes AI and understanding how people are using things can help shape things around what extent do people want to actually have that data visible on a personal basis but yeah I think the difficulty is making sure that people because we would see this in a lot of students on how data analytics are used to help them it is really working with people to make sure that what is being done is obviously for them it is not being done for some purpose that they don't understand and again I think having the community saying we need a way to help us do this how can AI help us do that almost puts them in the demand driver's seat and then there is another issue I would like to take on which is not so often talked about but it is really integrated in the UNESCO or our recommendation and that is about those learners with some kind of disabilities hearing disabilities or sighted disabilities or reading disabilities or whatever most of them or we also have to say we have to talk about resources and that is why I really think say that we need to go above the resources as such to see the whole ecosystem but most of the resources are so far in written materials or maybe in images or what that and also as was said in one of the questions here about language is most of them are in English and most of them are also produced by academics as us rather high level people qualified people when it comes to education but we really need to see those groups which are vulnerable with some kind of learning problems or the disabilities and I quite often get the question do we really need to translate everything or do we really need to have everything by text for example or some kind of if something is on text we need to have a video as well yes if you go to the recommendation it is actually there that the resources should be offered and delivered in different kind of media so yes the answer is yes and it is true that AI gives that opportunity exactly some of our members for instance has this very specific lab on how we are artificial intelligence and they are working with the material that can help children autism for instance with specific images that can help with the concentration that is also a big potential and that is just the beginning and that is also why we need to go out even outside the institutions because of course we have many students with different kind of problems I mean learning problems or reading problems or sight problems or whatever but all those people out there maybe have even more problems very interesting to follow the new recommendations that have been worked on right now the recommendation on open science and which one of the members of the advocacy committee are involved and on campus and they both actually are involved and also the UNESCO recommendation on open science and the UNESCO recommendation on ethics in artificial intelligence because all these topics are in the conversation I think it's going to be very interesting yes and adding to that that is also why we need to see the ecosystem and see the whole ecosystem of openness because it goes together as you are saying with the open science with ethics and I mean all the other open movements actually that was stressed very much in the Cape Town Open Education Declaration the university ordered in 2017 the importance of seeing OER together with other movements about open education so that is also maybe for the future which started to yesterday that we need to go back to that yes does anyone of you want to give a few closing words I think we are approaching now the end of this session I think all my short summary would be there's an appetite for change there's an opportunity for change so now is the time to get involved there's things happening just now and probably it's probably only the next 18 months because if things don't change in the next 18 months we may just slip back to where we were so there is a chance to do things so there's projects involved here and there's other activities going on now if you're interested in this area there's a chance to make a difference I also would like to add to that that maybe no one can do everything but all of us can do something so be involved and be in advocate what you believe in and be active in the movement movement thank you Evel, thank you everyone for participating follow the news the newsletter get involved in the projects follow what the OER advocacy committee is doing all the speakers actors that talk today are very active in open education because I can go further than OER so thank you so much for presenting for participating in the panel for participating in the session let's meet again in the project or in the community I'll be very happy to cross paths again thank you, goodbye thank you very much for the opportunity and let's walk the path together yeah, thank you very much thank you bye