 Okay. Good morning everybody. Welcome to BC 314, our class on media and technology. Let's just have a quick word of prayer and pray together and then get started. Good somebody please lead us in prayer. Precious Father, we thank you. Praise to you, God, Master for this day which you have given to us. Once again, we are coming together. Lord Master, we ask you Father, fill us with your wisdom and understanding. To receive your word and Father God, we can imply everything what we are learning in our life for God. We ask you Father, fill your servant with the wisdom and prepare each one of our heart to receive the word of Father God, which is going to be come out from his mouth. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Alright, so we are now around the last week, last Friday. In this course, we talked about creative art. That's what we talked about and maybe I can just share the notes. Just quickly review and there's some little discussion I just want to do today and then get into the next topic. Alright, so we talked about creative art. It's again, it's a wide range of things, including dance and drama and mime and painting, writing, poetry, spoken word and so on. There are just so many different expressions. What I did not add was things like sculpture and then there are other artistic expressions which could be expressed even in the architecture of the buildings. I'm not saying we are worshiping the building, but the building is an expression of creativity which is directed towards God to glorify God and so on. So there are many, many ways in which creativity can be expressed. We have just listed some of the more common ones. So what I wanted to do and I think we tried to do this towards the end of the class last week is how do we encourage this creative arts? We know the impact, we know the powerful impact that creative arts, whatever expression, poetry or spoken word dance and drama and so on. We know the impact it has both in worship towards God and also as a means of communicating to people. But what I wanted to discuss was how do we encourage this in the church and you think about it in the context of a local church. How do we encourage this and how can we as God's people bring out expressions in a way that will be impactful, especially if we are using it as a means of communication to the world or to people or to the world. How can we do this so good, so well that it be impactful? Because if you don't do it well, people aren't going to pay attention to it. So example, if you just do a little drama for the sake of doing a drama, people in the church may put up with it. But definitely people outside, if you're trying to reach people outside, they are not going to be, they're not going to come. But we need to do something that is very good, that's excellent, that's impactful. It has to be meaningful, of course. We're communicating God's word over the message of the gospel. Through that, my question is how can this be nurtured in the church? First we can speak in the context of a local church and then we can also speak in a wider sense of the body of Christ. So I just want to discuss that a little bit before we move forward. So I want to get your thoughts on, we understand the creative arts. We understand how powerful it is both in worship and in ministry towards people. The question is, how do we encourage that in the local church? What can we do to encourage that? Just anyone can share your thoughts. Anyone? No thoughts, no ideas? All right, so how is it being done in your context, in your local church? How is creative arts? Do you see it's being encouraged? Do you see it happening? Or is it like something that's completely neglected? So maybe we should start with that question. Is it happening or is it not happening in your local church context? Thank you, Pastor. So for creative arts, in the context of my church, maybe I just started my journey in different churches and then come back to my church. So for creative arts, mainly when I was back home, it was more of dramas, playlets basically on different aspects of our Christian journey. It could be on faith, it could be on spiritual powers, how we are able to conquer spiritual powers, evil powers with the word, knowing our identity and all thoughts. And then through school, mainly we had people in my generation featuring more in dance, so we had people dancing basically in minds and choreography basically to just demonstrate a song, using body movements and all that. Then spoken word is very, very, very powerful to many people. In my church, the church I was initially before this one, we had a number of people who were able to speak the word. Who would just come to give a powerful piece of God's word using different words, just to communicate, it could be on love, it could be on anything about the Scriptures, it could be on God himself. And we usually do this maybe for special events as an outreach event where we use creative arts that's appealing and things that young people can easily touch. Young people can easily understand. Sometimes you get them more using drama, spoken words, dance compared to someone preaching. Just compliment whatever the preacher has been preaching on the pulpit with the dramas, with the spoken word, with the mimes or the dances basically. Yeah, so it's something I believe we cannot just neglect, particularly in a generation that has gone digital, in a generation that likes things being demonstrated. And likes to visualize things. So I think it's a very, very useful tool. It's creative arts. It's something that should be encouraged. And yeah, that's how basically we're using it here over in our church. Good, good. So thank you for sharing. That's very good. Now, so how did the, just from your observations, how was this nurtured in the local church? I mean, how do they do it? How do they make it happen in the local church? How do they encourage creative arts practically? Practically. So I'll speak for the one I'm currently at now. First of all, you have to identify who is interested. It's one thing for the pastor to desire to have a department. It's another thing for someone to be willing to spearhead the department. So there has to be someone who is really, really passionate about it, you know, and is willing to draw more people. So I found out that once he was able to find someone, everybody just gravitated. Everyone who, who he didn't even know, you know, had the gift of maybe acting, you know, dancing, you know, everybody just started coming. When a department was created in the church and the head was placed over, you know, over that department. So who is passionate about it and gifted, you know. And so from there, that was how it started. And even then it sprinkled down into the teenagers, we started seeing teenagers also, you know, getting involved in acting dramas, you know, we started seeing people dancing, you know, and all that. So I think first of all, it's just the pastor getting someone who can spearhead that department and creating a department that everybody can belong to and then ensuring that you give them the, you give them the space to be as creative as possible, you know, just give them that, give them that space, encourage them and allow them to, allow them to think beyond, you know, to go over beyond because, you know, once you're able to give them that atmosphere, that encouragement, that push, not, not necessarily push, but basically just that space to be able to think and bring up ideas, creative ideas, you know, to dramatize or to show the scriptures in another life that everybody understands and everyone's able to connect to. It helps the creative art department to try and to do more. Very good. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing. So I can, you know, from what you said, what you said, I can see that, you know, there are three main things. One is the pastor needs to have a vision to, for that, you know, they need to see the value in the benefit that the Creator Arts Ministry can have for the church community, right? There are so many benefits and it's first of all, you know, like the pastor must have a vision for it, that, you know, hey, that through creative arts, you know, you can communicate powerfully, you can worship God and glorify God and also kind of brings people together. You know, it's a great thing when people work together. And, you know, so that's the first thing. Second thing I see of what you shared was that there's got to be a strong person to drive it. You know, so somebody who has a passion for it should be put in charge and say, hey, you drive it, you take it forward and go with it, you know. So you need somebody like that and they will be able to get people in and then, you know, and they'll facilitate the whole thing. The third thing that Savit said, you mentioned is you're giving them the space. You're giving them the freedom. Of course, it's going to be based on the Word of God. It's going to come from the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But they have the freedom to do the thing that they want to do. Whether it be a drama, you know, whatever expressions, spoken word and so on, they give room for it. So I think three very important points that Savit shared, which is for, you know, which I think all of us can take with us. Say, if we want to see creative arts expressed in the local church, you know, here are some things you need to have somebody pass through has a vision for it. You have somebody to lead it. They need to be given the space for it. And then, of course, I would add another one point to say what Savit says, is that we can facilitate the equipping and the training. There are people who are very good in it. They can come and they can train people. You know, this is how you write the scripts. This is how you do a production, especially if it's a bigger production. This is how you do it. This is how you plan it out. There are people who have done it before and done many of it. They can come and train people so we can leverage gain from their experience and so on. Good. Shri Kumar, you want to add anything? You want to say anything to this? I have a question, sir. I want to know that is any Biblical reference regarding to this? When we are talking about this creative arts, I just want to know that do we have any Biblical references? Because in the Bible, I don't know whether it is like as you said about the paintings and other things. Yes, music is absolutely we can understand. But drama, these things, I don't know whether it is mentioned. How can we be able to tell the church that this is the part of worship and this can be used. So I just want to know that any Biblical reference if you can. Thank you. Okay. So what we can do, we first of all look at God himself. Who is God? He is creator. God is creative. So creativity, creative expressions come from God. So let me see, creativity is bringing something into being, is giving life to an idea. So God is creator and is creative. Now in the Bible, there are expressions where God led people to act out, to act out his word. So to the prophets, he would tell them, do something. That means he's given them a message, but the message is then communicated to the people, not only in words, but it's through their dramatizing that word. So most notably, we can point to Ezekiel, but then there are other prophets as well, but Ezekiel is the one who on many occasions, God said, Ezekiel, I want you to do this. And even when you think of Hosea, the prophet, God said, Hosea, you go and marry, you go and marry a prostitute. And that's totally against our mindset, but God said, do it because I want to convey a message through that. So that's a real exception to the whole thing. But then we see in Ezekiel, God said, Ezekiel, I want you to do certain things. Jeremiah, I want you to do something. That means you are dramatizing the message to the people. So that's where you can give a biblical validation to drama or any theater, any creative expression in action to communicate the message of God. So this was a prophetic word, but it was being dramatized. It was being played out. Same thing in the New Testament, you come, we can have this example of Agabus, Acts 21. He comes to Paul and he dramatizes the word that God had put in his heart. So in his heart, God said, Agabus, go tell Paul that Paul, when he goes to Jerusalem, he's going to be arrested and face a lot of trouble. So Agabus didn't come and say, thus says the Lord. I mean, he didn't just give a word, but he acted it out. He took a cloth, he tied himself up, and then he said thus says the Holy Spirit. He took Paul's sash and he tied himself and he said thus says the Holy Spirit. So he acted out the message. And this is another example where the thing that God wants to communicate can be communicated, of course, in word, but also in drama, but acting it out. So we can point to these as examples. In terms of poetry, we can definitely point to Psalms. You can say, hey, the book of Psalms is just like poetry. These are words that are written down which are messages from God where they are either meant to be sung or meant to be used in prayer or meant to be read and understood and receive inspiration. So can God use poetry? Can he use writing? Of course, all of the Psalms are just that. So in addition to music, we can point to these kinds of things that will communicate to us. But I think overall, if you just start with a premise of this understanding that God is a creative God and he can communicate to us in diverse ways and in diverse means, he's not restricted only one way of communication, but he communicates to us in multiple ways, then all of these creative expressions have room. Thank you, sir. I would just also want to know that can parable also be considered as a creative way of sharing the word of God. Definitely. So that's a good point. That's a very good point. So even the Lord Jesus used stories and parables to communicate spiritual truth. Thank you, sir. So one last question before we change topic. What do you think about sculpture? So for example, there are those who create artifacts, you know, images and one very, very well-known designer of sculpture or I would say Christian artist. He set up an entire place. Actually, it's a little island. I think this is in the United States. It's just a little island and his ministry was called precious moments. So you go to the island and then it's just a beautiful chapel and a lot of things beautiful done. But he uses sculpture, little figurines and like little boy girl, little things, sculpture to communicate different things, kindness, compassion, different things. And it's so beautiful, right? And so that ministry is called precious moments and they do these things, this work. And I'm just giving one example. I'm sure there are many like that. But sometimes when people work with sculpture, with these kinds of things, figures and figurines or artifacts, some people object. So, hey, God said, don't make any image of anything. So how would we respond to something like this? So here's a believer. Here's a wonderful ministry. It's a very amazing place. You go and see the work. It's so beautiful. And yet some may object. What would your response be? Would you be for it? Would it be against it? How would you explain that, yes, God can even work through these things? So I just wanted to put that question and see how would you respond to it? Go ahead, Roshan. I feel the way to convey to them, to those who say that God said, don't build idols and all those things. Firstly, in the tabernacle, if you look, you see the lamp stand, which is on the show grid and all those things. So the lamp stand conveys a message of the seven spirits of God. So God can use these things like sculpture and all these sorts of things to convey a message to us. So it's not that we worship it, but it's something that reminds us of what God is trying to say. That's how I feel that we can just relate to such people. Thank you, Pastor. Good. Very good. Good. Thank you. Sure. Say, please. And then, Christopher. Thanks, Roshan. I just have to reward the Roshan and said, if we look at from Genesis to Revelation, you will find out that God in his communication with man, like even the book of Daniel we just studied, is very symbolic. And it says that in most times, starts with symbols that we are used to in our context. And then he draws the meaning or communicates the meaning. And sometimes, by inspiration about the spirit of God, men understand what God is saying. So in that same light, bringing it down to sculpture, the gift of sculpturing things is from God. And we're supposed to use our gifts, regardless of whatever it is, to worship and to honor, to reveal and glorify Jesus Christ. So on that basis, there's nothing wrong. That would be my basis of explanation. There's nothing wrong with someone, making statues, making figurines, that communicates Christ, that communicates the character of Christ, or whatever scripture has taught us, whatever that's found in his word, or his expectation of we Christians. There's nothing wrong with someone deciding to do that. As long as the intent or goal is not to get people to worship those things, then that would be the red line there. That would be a no-go area. As long as it's not made for worship, but basically to reveal Jesus and to point people, very, very important, to point people to Jesus, to point them back to the Word, to point them back to worshiping, to draw inspiration and to say, wow, your sculpture, your figurine has made me desire to work with God more. As communicated, it's true to that. I read this morning from scripture that the Lord has opened it up more again from your sculpture. That should be the intent of any sculpture who is doing any kind of objectors, any figures, basically, to get people connected to Christ. That should be the intent, basically, of any sculpture doing that. That's how you answer such a person. Yeah, thank you. We are very clear in our minds. These are creative expressions, either as an act of worship to God or a message to people, but we are not worshiping that peace. They're not making a sculpture of Jesus and say, okay, worship the sculpture. No, no. They're doing so many different things. You could have examples, simple, common things. You see these praying hands or you see so many things. You could even, some Bible stories are depicted through that work of art, which brings inspiration. What Say is saying is, we're very clear that it's communicating to us or glorifying God, but we're not worshiping it. It's another way to minister to people. Okay, let's take the last two thoughts here. Christopher, you have something to say and then, Kennedy, you have something to say. Please go ahead. Yes, Pastor. I was trying to refer back to many centuries ago when there were people and artists who painted and even depicted sculptures also. This was their expression of how they viewed or how they could creatively represent what they were inspired by. For example, Michelangelo with the Sistine Chapel and there was some of the sculptures that he did. There were some views about how he saw it and how it got represented. For example, in some of the sculptures that he did, there are still available to see which are really a work of art. But they are actually represented in the nude. Even in the case of some of the paintings that he did in the Sistine Chapel, it took five years to build. Asteroids, sorry, not build but to paint. There were views at that time that how could he represent creation and the different stories of the Bible, actually, which he represented on the ceiling. But he represented it in a... Some of them were just totally... He felt that there was not the right way to do it and he was inspired by that. So he just wanted to get a view of that. How he represented it and how it got... Some people did not have a differing view of... Actually, they felt that they were... They felt scandalized that. That was how it got represented here. Oh, so you are asking a question, Christopher? Yeah, my question is, in an artist's view, they will see things differently and they will represent something that may not play to... It may not appeal to everyone. Some people may feel that it's completely wrong. And in the present time also, if there were people who were painting or making sculptures and they were representing it in, say, for example, in the nude, for example, would that be something that is right, wrong? Is that something that... So I just wanted to get a view on that here. Okay. Yeah, I'm just... I'm just launching E-Sword to look up a verse I can't remember it now. There was says, and I can't remember where it is, to the pure, all things are pure. That made me understand it. I don't know where that reference is. I think it is in Titus. So what it is. Thank you. Thank you. Let me just look up Titus. Titus? Let me just look it up here on E-Sword. Okay, Titus 115. Thank you so much. Titus 150. Okay. So Titus 115. Paul writes, he says, to the pure, all things are pure. But to those who are defiled and believing nothing is pure, but even their mind and conscience are defiled. Okay. So I'm just pointing to the scripture and trying to see how you apply it in this context. That is, the question we ask is, is there anything inherently wrong in that particular work of art? Because it's actually communicating a biblical story, right? So the intent in that work of art, I'm not condoning nudity. I'm just saying in that particular, in the particular context of what we're talking about, it's in the chapel. It's communicating a Bible message. And so the intent of the artist or the expectation of the artist from viewers would be, look at this with pure eyes. Whereas, you know, when we have pornography or other things that the intent is, look at it with unclean eyes, right? So I'm not condoning that. But I'm looking at this specific context. There's a work of art in a chapel, communicating a Bible message, a Bible story, creation, other things. And what was the intent of the artist? Look at it with purity. Look at it because this is a place of purity. So there, to the pure, all things are pure. Titus 115. Those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but their mind and conscience is defiled. So my response would be, hey, what was the intent of the artist? And what is the expectation of the artist? His intent is pure. Communicate a Bible story. Expectation is to look at it with pure eyes. So now it's the responsibility of the viewer to look at it with pure eyes and to see it from that perspective. So that would be my response to this particular context. We shouldn't take what I said out of context and apply it to other things, but here in this context, that's how I would respond to it. Is that okay? All right. Okay. Let's quickly, this Abraham, Roshan says all things created by him for him. Abraham says, I think they serve as a sign to remind us of God's goodness, science to point us to something, not itself. Okay. That's right. Kennedy, you had your hand raised, so please go ahead. I think we might take the most important thing is to do the issue of content creation. Are you going to create a content that is going to glorify God? Or are you going to create a content that won't honor God? So I think that's the developing factor because if you create a content that is not worth it, then it's not worth the presentation. I think the most basic thing is to have the guidance of the pastor, to have a content creator who is Godly and who is going to give us something that is Bible-based. And we also look at the targeted audience. Who am I communicating with? Because what I'll do to the young ones in the industry is not what I'll do to the youth. It's important to the both of them, but I have to try to treat it in such a way that each and every person that I'm going to treat them can look at the content. Good. Thank you. So I think Kennedy highlighted two things. One is the person doing it. It was creating that work of art that it should come from, obviously, come from a Godly person with Godly intent. So that work of art then is an expression of the person who's doing it. It's expressing a Godly intent. It's expressing a Godly message. The other thing Kennedy was pointing out is, hey, who are you speaking to? Who are you communicating to? And you communicate to them in a way that they can... It impacts them in a Godly way. So that's something to keep in mind that how I'm doing this should impact people in a Godly way and move them to God. So I just want to have these little discussions here on creative art. So one is we need to develop this in the local church. So that was the beginning of what we said. How do we develop it? How do we nurture it? And we need to be intentional because otherwise, it might just happen once a year, okay? Some special thing happens once a year, but we need to, on an ongoing basis, encourage people to use this to understand its impact. Then the other part of our discussion was in dealing in some things that may be questionable, but then if we can help people understand that we are not worshiping the object that was produced by that art, it's only a means to either worship God or to communicate to people, and we're not worshiping the work of art, you know? And then, of course, we do it responsibly, making sure that whatever we express is going to have... It's going to identify people. It's going to have a positive impact on people. Okay. Last point Roshan has said, in regards to biblical sculptures and paintings, by secular artists, as long as it is in line with biblical values, then fine. Yeah, that's also fine, you know, because there may be others who produce things. Like when we talk about films, which we will talk about shortly, there are, you know, even secular people who produce Christian films, many Christian, many things. You know, it could be a Jesus film or something, a documentary or something. We don't reject it. We don't say, hey, this film was produced by somebody who's not a believer, so I won't watch it. No, it's a film. Yes, it was done by a secular company or directed by a secular person, but it's a film. Maybe it's the life of Jesus. Maybe it's some other Christian story. We do watch it and it can still be a blessing to people. And I'm just talking in general terms. Okay, so I'll just introduce our next topic and we'll pick this up tomorrow. Next thing we want to talk about is media. We want to talk about print media. We want to talk about films, movie, TV, radio, and then films. So three things, right? Three broad categories. One is print media. The other is TV, radio, mass communication, and films. I'm keeping internet separately because we're going to spend a lot more time and a lot more detail on the internet and learning how it can be used for ministry and so on. So I'm just leaving the internet aside. But looking at these tools for mass media, mass communication, we have print media. We have radio and television. And then we have films and all kinds of films. There are so many kinds of films. They are the full-length feature films. We have documentaries. We have short films and so on. When we talk about films, we're not mixing it up with what happens on internet and social media. Those things we'll talk about separately. But I'm talking about regular films, movies that people produce. So print media. So we must understand the value of print media. I know a large part of the world has gone digital. Slowly. I'm not saying everybody, but slowly, more and more people are beginning to read online. So they read on their devices. They read digital. But not everybody does it. It's not a 100% thing. There is huge value in the old-fashioned printed page. So there is great value. And right from the printing of the Bible, which was a tremendous, tremendous step. Because when the Bible was printed, or many copies were made and distributed, we see that it became accessible to the common man so that everybody could read it. Now, today it's gone to the place where you can have it on your phone, digital phone. That's okay. We'll talk about it later. We'll talk about the print. So how the printing press and the ability to print, we're talking about from a Christian perspective, just made the Bible itself accessible to the common man. And from there has been a tremendous journey where print media has been a tool by which God has worked and God has touched the lives of so many people. So whether they were tract distributions, whether they were the distributions of the Bible, the Gideons who made it their mission to put a copy of the Bible, and of course they used many different channels, but the mission was to put a Bible in every hotel room where people go to spend their evening and get a copy of the Bible. But Bible in schools and so on. So leveraging the print media has been a very powerful tool to impact the unsaved and of course also to strengthen the church by believers reading books and so on. So the print media is not going to go away entirely. It will always have its place even though a large portion has now gone digital. It will have its place. I don't think at least in the foreseeable future that print is going to go away completely. There will still be that place. I just want to add one more thought and we will pick this up tomorrow is that especially in certain segments of society, whether it's maybe in rural or even maybe for the elderly, they prefer print. I understand in urban context people are getting more and more used to digital forms. So they read on the phone or on the computer and so on. So that segment is there, but there's also this segment where people prefer print. And so for them, reaching them, getting to them, communicating to them through print media is still a very important way in which we must engage. I just want one or two more thoughts and then we close for today. One of the things that we as a church have done from the very beginning is to print our own books and to distribute them out freely. And the reason we said we will distribute them freely is because, at least I'm speaking from here, our local context. In India, there are large parts of our population who cannot afford to buy books. First of all, there are no Christian bookstores in their cities or in their towns. There are no Christian bookstores. So they can't even go and buy, even if they add money. And secondly, many people don't even have the money to buy it. So even if there was a Christian bookstore, they wouldn't have the money to go buy those books. So we said print media can be a very useful tool for us to reach people with the Word of God, with teaching from the Bible and so on. And if we can give it to them for free, we are crossing these barriers. That means we will print and we will send it. So we're not depending on a Christian bookstore to carry it because in most of their towns, in many of their cities and definitely in villages, there are no Christian bookstores. So we're not depending on those bookstores. Only big cities have these Christian bookstores. Otherwise, you don't find it. But if we print it, we can send it direct to them, the people who want it, or give it directly to them. Secondly, if we give it to them for free, we must give it to them for free because they cannot afford to buy it. They don't have the money to buy it. But at least if we give it to them for free, then they have a chance to learn the Word of God. And those who have money, they will contribute to us out of their own free will. And we can use that money to bless the people who don't have the money to buy books, which is a very large population. And so with that in mind, we started doing it from 2001. And of course, a lot of people came and said, no, no, no, you must sell your books. You must sell your books. You must sell your books. Don't give it for free. Don't give it for free. But we were very clear. The reason why we're giving it for free is for the benefit of people who cannot afford it. And people who have money, we don't want them to buy the book. We want them to give money to help in the printing of the book. If they buy the book, they might buy it for, say, 100 rupees or whatever that amount we charge. But when they give money, they can give 10,000. They can give 100,000 rupees to help fund the printing of the book. And that's exactly what has happened. So over the last so many years, in every year, of course, during the pandemic, we had to pause a lot of things that stopped during the pandemic. But before the pandemic and after that, we have just resumed the printing and we still don't have full stock. But maybe in a few months, we'll have the stock. But the books are going out for free and in different languages. And people across the country are being blessed. Especially people who cannot afford it. They can read and be blessed. So print media is a very powerful tool. And if we can use it in a way that will help us reach the people who need it, the Word of God, then we can definitely make it a very powerful ministry to serve people. So I'll pause you for today. We'll pick this up. And then we will talk about the other mass media tools. Television radio will look a little bit of history of Christian television and to see where it's come. And then we will talk about films. And then later after that, we'll get into this whole internet thing because the internet has, in many ways, I wouldn't say completely replaced, but it has really added to what was being done through the mass media communication tools of internet's big space where you have videos, of course you have digital books, everything has become a big platform to communicate and so on. So we'll deal with that separately. Okay. It's good somebody closed in prayer and people dismissed please. They want to pray. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much Lord that you're such a great God that we serve and we love and that you are a faithful God in everything that you've done. Thank you so much for best of our strength and for all my class in God as we're about to enter class and Lord, we will think about what our past have taught Lord. Thank you so much for that each one of them is blessed and those who have, those who are not feeling well Lord, I pray for your healing and I pray for each one of them Lord that your hand of protection will be over their family and then Lord thank you so much for pastor and everyone God. We need you to pray. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. We'll continue this tomorrow. See you tomorrow God bless. Thank you. Bye now. Thank you. Thank you pastor. Thank you.