 Pa'r bobl yn ymdegon, erafrwy'r Gethig, a dweud i'n bodi'n bwysig yma wedi'i gweithio'r griffwyr yma ymddangos y Llyfrgell Cymru. Be gydag, rwy'n iawn i'n meddwl ganddag i'r gweithio ymddangos yma yn y part yma yma o'r gweithio'n i'n rhan o'r gweithio'n gweithio. Ond yma yw'n rhaid i'n gweithio'n gwneud i'r gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio'n gweithio. As the First Minister said on Friday, these changes are being put in place to help prevent a fresh coronavirus crisis in Wales. Cases are rising overall in Wales and we are seeing a deteriorating position beyond our borders. The latest advice from the Welsh Government technical advisory cell will be published this week. It says the pattern of increasing cases is similar to the situation we faced in early February. It says action should be taken now to prevent significant harm or another full lockdown. None of us want to see large numbers of seriously ill people in our hospitals again and none of us want to see large numbers of people dying again from this virus. From today, face coverings must be worn in all indoor public places in Wales. Only six people from the same exclusive extended household group will be able to meet indoors. That applies to people's homes and indoor public places like pubs and restaurants. If you can work from home, you should continue to do so wherever possible. Now, as you will be able to see shortly from the slide, there are a number of areas in south Wales where cases of coronavirus have risen sharply in the recent past. Those are in the Caerphilly borough, in Merthyr Tydfil, in Rhondda Cynon Taf and Newport. We are working closely with each of the local authorities and public health experts to understand these rises and to put in place measures to help control the spread of the virus. There are many similarities between the rises in each of the areas including socialising indoors and at home without social distancing and imported cases from holiday travel. We are also updating our coronavirus control plan to increase the range of measures that we have to respond to local outbreak. These include actions which have been introduced elsewhere in the UK, Ireland and further afield. These include the possible introduction of curfews, restricting alcohol sales and changing pub operations, including the possibility of shorter opening hours or only selling alcohol with food. You will, of course, be aware that local restrictions were introduced in the Caerphilly borough last week to help reduce the spread of coronavirus. The three specific restrictions introduced were face coverings to be worn in all indoor public places, no meetings indoors, that means extended households have been suspended for the time being and people are not able to enter or leave the borough unless they have a reasonable excuse. I know that these new rules will be difficult for many people who live in the Caerphilly area. For some they will feel like an imposition and an inconvenience but the feedback we've had from the police has been positive and compliance has been good. We are continuing to see new cases which is to be expected due to the time between infection and symptoms. It could still be a further two weeks before we reach a peak. We are, however, seeing a change in the pattern of infection with more people now testing in their 40s and 50s testing positive. The situation in Merthyr Tidwell is more complex. There is a cluster of cases linked to people working in a company. We are also seeing cases linked to the Caerphilly borough as well as those associated with socialising without social distance and imported cases from holiday travel. In Rhondda Cynon Taf, the cases are largely centred on the lower Rhondda valley and are again linked to people socialising without social distancing and returning from holidays. We've also seen a small cluster of cases linked to a caravan park. Both Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr Tidwell local authorities introduced a series of local measures on Thursday to help control the spread of the virus. We're working very closely with both local authorities to see where the further action is needed, including local restrictions. In Newport we're seeing a rapid rise in cases following a similar pattern to what we saw earlier in Caerphilly. At the heart of it appears to be a party over the bank holiday weekend which led to 18 new cases of coronavirus, many of whom visited other venues on nights out whilst infectious. Public Health Wales yesterday asked people who had visited a list of bars and pubs in the city to be aware of the symptoms of coronavirus. Before I take questions I should say a few words about the issues we've been experiencing with Lighthouse Lab testing which came to a head over this weekend. We started community testing in Rhondda at the end of the week but this has been hampered by the ongoing issues with the UK Government's Lighthouse Lab system and that plainly isn't acceptable. Late on Friday night a unilateral decision was made within the UK Government to reduce Lighthouse testing capacity at all mobile testing units in Wales including in Rhondda to just 60. We intervened and helped to increase this over the weekend and crucially the health board, the local authority and the Welsh ambulance service also made extra testing capacity available to cope with the demand. These are not the only issues we're experiencing with the UK wide system at the moment. I know there are a number of cases where people are trying to book a test at driving centres and finding them either fully booked or being told to go to a centre many hundreds of miles away. I've spoken with the UK Secretary of State about this on a number of occasions including on Saturday where we agreed some immediate action to protect capacity in areas experiencing higher incidents and spikes and to make sure that unilateral restrictions are not placed on Wales again. But we have to see an urgent and sustainable solution to these ongoing issues affecting the Lighthouse Lab system. In the meantime we are taking steps, we've invested to boost our testing capacity and we're taking urgent action to switch over testing facilities to Welsh laboratories to increase capacity through our mobile testing units whilst the UK Government resolves the issues with the Lighthouse system. Thank you, I'll now start taking questions and I think today we're starting with Adrian Masters from ITV Wales. Thank you Minister. Can I pick up on those testing problems that you've just discussed? You said it was unacceptable the issues in the UK system. Has it been a mistake to rely so much on being part of the UK system? And I suppose related to that but also separate is Aren't you, as a Welsh Government, accountable too? What the Welsh Government hasn't used or its testing capacity in Welsh labs and not working 24 hours? Could you have been spending more time briefing up Welsh to test it? Well I think there are a couple of different issues there Adrian. You'll recall when the UK Lighthouse Lab programme was introduced we didn't take part initially in Wales because we didn't have the flow of data. So we'd have known that Welsh residents were getting a test but not what the results were. So they weren't available within our testing system and that's crucial for contact tracing to work. We resolved those issues, we're now taking part. And to be fair up until the last few weeks the Lighthouse Lab system worked pretty well. There were a reliable number of tests, people got their results back in a reasonable period of time and the data came to our contact trades who were able to do their job and the contact tracing system is working well as you know here in Wales. The challenges of where we are now highlight some of the problems about not being able to cope with not so much the sampling but getting those samples taken and getting the results done within the labs that's where the challenge is. Now this is always a challenge about balancing what we're able to do. There's a UK run and funded programme that should be providing a significant amount of tests across each of the four nations and has done so until recently. The challenge is how quickly it's able to rescale itself up to deal with the demand. All of us have known in all of the health departments across all four nations that autumn and the winter is likely to be the most demanding period of time with more coughs, colds and other challenges that mimic the symptoms of coronavirus as well of course as the pinch point of school return and university return. So this is happening at a particularly difficult time for all of us. And if Matt Hancock were here today answering your question about whether this is acceptable, I don't think he'd pretend that this is acceptable. It's a matter to be resolved as urgently as possible but I don't think it's going to be resolved for a number of weeks and that follows a conversation, a constructive conversation that all four health ministers had at the end of last week. That's why we are moving part of our capacity from NHS Wales labs to make sure that mobile testing units are run through Welsh labs to make sure that we've got enough capacity if we do see further spikes to move those units around whilst the lighthouse lab issues are being resolved. We've always needed to build up our own Welsh testing resources to cope with the spikes and demand that we think we're going to see through autumn and winter as well as protecting capacity if we need to move that for example if we see outbreaks in care homes, if we see more people coming into our hospitals but those tests are already run and have continued to be run through our NHS Wales labs. So it's about the balance and all of those. I wish there were a perfect answer and an easy one in all this but it is about doing what we can, doing the right thing here in Wales, moving the resources we have around to cope with the challenges in lighthouse labs and needing to see an urgent resolution at the UK level to make sure that we don't have this issue running through the autumn and the winter because we may need to make choices within the next few weeks on a local level and potentially on a national level because the point that I made earlier age that I think is really important we think we're in an equivalent period of time now to the one we faced in early February. In early February we faced a position where we didn't have the range of knowledge we have now but we went into a national lockdown in essentially the third week of March. So there's a period of weeks for us to resolve some of the challenges we have which is why the appeal to people to reconsider the choices we're making, who we're seeing, how many people we're seeing because otherwise we may need to make more local lockdown choices or potentially a national lockdown with all the interruption for that causes. Thank you and can I also ask you a little more about enforcement measures? You are the first one to increase enforcement similarly in other parts of the UK. There is increased enforcement of these regulations in hopes restaurants and other settings. Isn't that likely to be too little and too late because that sort of strict enforcement should have happened earlier? Have you been too reliant on goodwill and the idea that people will comply? I think there are two things here Aiden. The first is there are still choices for us to make if we're going out to use a pub or a restaurant and there are choices that businesses need to make. They need to follow the rules. So businesses need to do their part and to be fair local authorities have been visiting premises. Because of the challenges they've seen in a larger number of businesses that had concerns about there's more concerted action by local authorities across the country. You'll have seen that Caerphilly have increased their enforcement. I spoke with the leader of Newport today they're increasing their enforcement activity and Rhondda Cynon Taf closed a pub in the last few days because it wasn't following the rules. They've also of course issued enforcement notices against supermarkets. So it's really important that businesses play their part. But even if a business is doing what it should do we still have choices. So that means people not going into pubs and restaurants in more mixed groups than the rules say we should do. Going out with six people from six different households if one of you has coronavirus that could then go into six different households and you could see how the change of transmission could spread quite rapidly. So it's important that we stick with the rules that we've got about limiting our contact to our extended households. Otherwise we may not just see a larger number of cases but all of the consequences in closing down a range of businesses that have consequences for people's livelihood. There's economic calm that can lead to health harm as well and crucially the spread of coronavirus and our ability to control it the drastic measures that we took in having a national lockdown is not something that I want to return to if we can avoid it. But if it's necessary then that's what we will do. So a message for all of us about our behaviour and most of our businesses to do their part and to follow the rules. Thank you Adrian. I've now got James Williams on BBC Wales. Thank you very much Minister. Can I just begin again on the White House Labs question? Obviously you've got a mix of Welsh NHS laboratories and White House Labs that you're using at the moment but you knew that there were problems with the White House Labs before this weekend. So couldn't you have made a decision a bit earlier to shift to using more of your capacity in Welsh NHS Labs? Especially given that you've got a daily capacity of 15,000 tests and over 15,000 tests in Welsh NHS Labs. On Saturday only around 11,000 tests were conducted in total. So there seems to be spare capacity in Welsh NHS Labs. Is there a problem with sort of shifting to using capacity? And then separately can I also ask, can you just explain why care homes in North Wales are shifting from a weekly testing regime to full capacity? Okay, so on the switch of our resources I've been talking with my officials during this week about trying to move more resources from our mobile testing units. They're the ones we move around set up walking centres on a pop-up basis if you like where we understand there's a spike in testing. Now we have three of those at present run through the Welsh Ambulance Service. All of those tests go back into our NHS Wales labs, other mobile units. So we helped to decide where they're going but then once we decided where they're going to go the results in those typically go back to be tested within the Lighthouse Laboratories. Now we're going to move more of those mobile units to NHS Wales labs to protect our ability to rapidly move into communities of concern, to undertake more targeted testing and to make sure we've got those testing figures coming back within our NHS Wales system. What we saw on Friday though was a surprise and unilateral choice made at official level to significantly reduce the numbers. Our understanding of that is that they didn't properly account for the outbreak in heightened areas of concern within not just Wales but Scotland and Northern Ireland too. And that's my point about needing to make sure that that unilateral choice does not happen again because within Wales if we know that there isn't going to be as much testing capacity available we would then make choices about our highest priority areas and that again reinforces why there's a need to move some of our capacity back into NHS Wales but we need to have some of that capacity protected for the autumn and the winter and you'll know we're investing in more staff to make sure we can turn around more tests within the NHS Wales system. The position on care homes is that within North Wales we had a slightly higher incidence than the rest of the country and we moved from a weekly testing regime to every fortnight. The good news is that in North Wales we have a very low instance of tests coming back positive and they're false positives in the main in North Wales so we're moving as we did in the rest of the country to a fortnightly programme. That's still a regular review of testing and we need to make sure those results are coming back quickly enough to be of value. Where we're changing that though is in our heightened areas of concern we've already moved to more regular testing in Caerphilly, understandably. We've already moved to more regular testing of RCT and I suspect we'll do the same in Newport and of course those three county boroughs have also made the decision which I fully support to end visiting to care homes. That's a difficult choice in terms of family and loved ones who can't see their friends and relatives within a home but it's about protecting people within those homes. So it isn't simply about the regularity of our testing it's about the control measures we have in place and frankly at the start of this we were able to test care homes every two weeks. People have recognised as a very regular point in testing to provide concern but if we do have individual instances of true positive cases in care homes then we're looking to test that environment more significantly in any event. So that's again one of the reasons to have our mobile testing units available within NHS Wales to come back to our own loads rapidly and predictably. Thank you. And you said that you were in a similar position to where we were in early February and the less changes are made and to hold the spread of virus you know we couldn't do anything else. More stringent restrictions potentially even a national lockdown again. You said that schools as a government that schools are a priority short of a national lockdown does that mean therefore that the schools closing schools would be the last thing that we can see? Well yes, we've been really clear that we certainly don't want to close schools there'll be other closures and other restrictions in place first. Those could be the ones I've potentially outlined about pubs for example about reducing their hours or about having the same restrictions Ireland does where you have to buy food at the same time as buying alcohol. It is though worth pointing out that it is possible to see an improvement. It's not a one way escalator we saw in Cardiff a few weeks ago real concern. We've now seen reductions in the Cardiff figures over the last couple of weeks so it is possible for us to see behaviour change at least the less cases coming through. And that I think the point about early February is that if we have the opportunity to change behaviour in early February we may have been able to avoid a national lockdown or we may have had the intelligence we now have to be able to introduce those measures earlier. And it's really important that people are honest with contact tracers when they have that information. So, you know, people who are reluctant to say what's happened that means that the risks of taking more local lockdown measures or potentially national lockdown measures it raises the prospect of doing that as well as a potential for harm. But whatever we do through the choices we make about local or national decisions it remains a position of this government that we want to keep schools open so other closures would take place first to protect our ability to keep children in school because we know the significant harm it does to children's wellbeing in the here and now from having schools closed as well as the harm to their future prospects. Thank you, James. And I've got Laura Clements from Wales Online. Thank you. Thank you, Minister. A couple of questions from me for this one. On Tuesday Dr. Sarah Acton, the director of public health at 9-11, said that all health was a practice for local lockdown a few weeks ago. Does that mean that the surge in cases is always considered in every form as a result of increased freedom of use in that? And therefore is it thinking that I've actually lost time doing that? I'll have to see quickly. I think it's sensible planning. We've been getting ready for our winter plan that I'll be launching tomorrow. And within that we've had to look through a range of scenarios about what is possible as well as looking at what that then means we need to do. So we've looked at how we could go about increasing our critical care capacity again. We've had to look at how we'll have a different network of field hospitals that we may need to have in place if there is a further surge. We would look at what that will mean in terms of changing different parts the way our healthcare system works. We'll look different to the position we're in within March because we're trying to protect some streams of activity, so some elective care, some different forms of treatment that I took the decision to end on the 13th of March. We may be able to track more of that going through this autumn and winter. But the challenge comes back to how we've chosen to behave through the summer and going into the autumn. We suppressed coronavirus pretty significantly through the summer. We were in a position with low levels of transmission to have further easements. The challenge is that we've seen some people relaxing too much perhaps and small instances where people know know that they're breaking the rules and in particular larger social gatherings in people's homes and a couple of businesses that have not enforced the rules in terms of the way their customers behave. Now, that's a challenge for us and we see, as I said in Caerphilly, that the infection rate is moved so more people over 40 and over 50 are testing positive and their risks of harm are much greater than fit and healthy people in their teens and 20s. So the risks are there and of course it's important that our health and social care system prepares for what might come through the autumn and the winter and that's entirely the right thing to do. Our ability to keep out of lockdown depends on the choices that each one of us is prepared to make to help keep Wales safe. The question. What should people do if they see others, for example, by neighbours breaking the new rules and if the answer is false groups and cannot afford to treat that additional demand? Well, it always depends about, you know, the ability you have to have conversations with other people. Some people have a relationship with their neighbours who can talk with each other. Others may not feel comfortable at pointing out that some behaviour shouldn't take place. People having large house parties are plainly a problem and you're seen within England that some people have been fined the maximum £10,000 level. We actually want to engage with people first to try to make sure that behaviour doesn't happen. So if people are asked to leave premises they do so and do so quickly and responsibly but the starting point is for that not to happen in the first place. I think there's a very clear message about the risks of indoor contact in people's home from people from a large number of different households. The rules we have allow four different households to group together and to see each other indoors with no more than six people accepting young children to be in that place at any one time. We want to maintain the contact people have and value. We recognise the value that provides to a range of people. But if we continue to see behaviour that isn't responsible, if we see behaviour that leads to an increase in cases then as well as the potential for the police to undertake enforcement and you've heard from the chief constable in Gwent who's been clear that they will take enforcement action where it's needed. We actually want to get to a position where we can avoid having local and national lockdowns. That's the objective. But if it's the choice between a lockdown or accepting large amounts of harm large numbers of people going into hospitals or dying from the virus I'm very clear that we will choose to introduce more local and potentially national lockdown measures to help keep well safe. Thank you Laura. I've now got Dan Bevan from LBC. If there isn't a change in behaviour we could well be not just seven weeks away from a potential national lockdown but potentially much quicker. If we see cases continue to rise with the intelligence and information we have now with the significant contact tracing we have then we may be in a position to make that decision and need to make that decision sooner than the seven week period of time. It does I think say to the public that there is a limited period of weeks for us to reconsider the choices we're making and to behave in a different way if we are to avoid more local lockdowns or a national lockdown. That includes people who are willingly breaking the rules. The rules will be enforced. We want to engage with people to persuade people but ultimately if people want to break the rules then they'll find there are consequences that come from that. The rules are here for all of us. The rules are here for the benefit of all of us and they apply to all of us. So I really hope that people take that message on board. Otherwise we may have to take further measures that will affect all of us in different ways. We'll be giving some more detail on field hospitals within our winter plan but we've got a planning scenario that our health boards will work with. We've got a plan that will be a new unit on the side of the person on the road. But what are your plans for field hospitals that have already been effectively multiple? And how many do you want to have in place this one? We'll be giving some more detail on field hospitals within our winter plan but we've got a planning scenario that our health boards will work with us on. Well, we understand we will have field hospitals within and serving each health board area. It's about the numbers that we think we're going to need. But again, this depends on the behaviour of the public. We saw in the first wave that we didn't need to use the significant field hospital capacity that we built up in large measure because people followed the rules because the first national lockdown did very effectively suppress the spread of coronavirus. Despite that, we saw significant numbers of very ill people in our hospitals and of course we saw significant loss of life. Now that's what we're trying to avoid. So we will have a network of field hospitals in place. We will be providing more detail on that but it comes back to the choices that each of us are prepared to make. The government has a responsibility but each and every one of us has a share of responsibility too. Thank you, Dan. I've now got Rob Taylor from rexham.com. Well, it's broadly similar, but it's a mixed picture. You've seen the hotspots in South Wales. We're seeing a modest increase in some authorities within North Wales but what's really important for us is the information we're getting from our contact tracing service because that allows us to understand whether a specific cluster we can trace and understand and link back to cases and that people then follow the advice they're given to isolate or whether we are seeing more significant community transmission. That again underpins my point that it's really, really important that people are honest with contact traces, that they tell them what they've been doing and they tell them who they've seen because that's the way that we can protect those individuals, families and communities and try to avoid more significant local or potentially national action. We're still at the point though where despite being in an equivalent of February we can make a difference in the spread of coronavirus and in protecting people from harm. As I say, we've seen in Cardiff a reduction in cases from a couple of weeks ago so it is possible for all of us to make a real difference and that I think is really important to theirs. As I say, responsibility for the government, our health service to make the right choices to protect people but equally we all have individual responsibilities to protect the people around us and the people we'll come into contact with. Thank you. We are in a better position than we were in the third week of March when we went into national lockdown. I recall in these press conferences in very difficult days when it came to PPE provision. We've significantly restocked our provision for PPE. We have a range of orders still to come in but we're in a much better position now than previously but even with that additional assurance it's still the case that we don't want our health and social care staff using even more significant amounts of PPE because we want to avoid more cases of COVID coming in to our health and care system. So again it still goes back to even with that better provision and the assurance a public should take from that that should not lead to risk taking behaviour and avoiding or ignoring the rules that are in place as I say for the benefit of everyone to protect everyone. Be honest with contact tracers if you're contacted. Follow the rules on self-isolation and please make sure you follow the rules on limiting the number of contacts you're having because that is the way that we'll get through this and minimise the harm that will otherwise take place right across the country. I've now got Jonathan Hill from the South Wales Argus. Well it really does depend on the information that we get through each day so there's a daily look at what happens not just with our testing figures but the intelligence we get from our test trace protect service about how the infection is being spread and whether we can understand those routes of transmission. If we can then we can effectively have a smart lockdown that targets people who have come into contact with infectious individuals rather than taking community-wide measures. But as well as the cases as well as the intent is to go back to the point that there are choices that each of us need to make so I'll be having meetings during the rest of the day. I've spoken with the leader of Newport already today and I'm likely to speak to leaders of the city during the day again but we'll need to make choices each day about what is the right thing to do but the starting point is people need to make choices about what we're doing if we're going to pubs, restaurants and other places people need to make choices about who we're having within our own home where the most significant spread has taken place. So there isn't a particular mechanistic timeframe to this but it's a daily point of looking at each of the areas of concern and needing to make choices throughout each day. Several schools in Newport have asked classes or even whole new groups to self-isolate due to positive COVID cases and schools elsewhere have experienced similar things. Does the return to school pose more difficulties than you envisage? Not in particular, I've had an opportunity to speak with the education minister over the last week about where we are with the return from schools it's actually gone pretty smoothly with a very high attendance rate What we've seen though with those classes or potential year groups have needed to isolate is in the instance of year groups a challenge about having proper bubbles of students who are in a consistent group and not mixing across a whole year and even with the other cases it is largely driven by adult behaviour so the idea that teachers are at risk because they're in a classroom with children and young people is actually their contact with other members of staff within the school and needing to make sure they're socially distancing from their work colleagues and it's the challenges we see with wider community transmission in some parts of the country because some teaching staff have been involved in some of the events that we talk about teachers themselves attend events outside the school so actually the greater risk for school staff is other school staff within the school not children, young people and what's taking place within communities that's why for our schools it's really important it isn't just about reinforcing behaviour within the school but outside school as well if you've got symptoms get yourself a test be honest with contact tracers follow the advice you're given and limit the number of contacts that you're having and please follow the rules otherwise we may well have to take further steps on local or potentially national lockdown measures Thank you Jonathan we're finishing now with Andrew Forgre from The Daily Post Good afternoon Minister If I could just pick up finally on on the tenting capacity again the 100% that the tenting capacity is effectively being shifted from North Wales to South Wales it suffocates and it's another risk that the door is being let open the virus returning to North Wales given its proximity to local lockdown areas We're not shifting capacity out of North Wales that simply isn't the case that's not what we're doing at all and we're certainly not taking a region vs region approach we're taking a responsible picture of the whole country and needing to understand where we have spikes we have clusters that we need to deal with we have communities that need more testing resources that's when we move our mobile units around so as you saw earlier in the course of the pandemic we needed to test on Anglesey and in the Wrexham area we move resources into those parts of Wales to make sure the proper testing resources were available and that was never seen here as a decision to de-prioritise South Wales in favour of North Wales it's simply about doing the right thing for the country that's what we're doing and all the choices we make to help keep Wales safe what is the right choice to make what local measures do we need to take and do we need to take further national measures to continue to be my approach and the approach of this government I hope that provides assurance to people not just in North Wales but across the country that we really are seeing this in national terms and understanding what we need to do to help local people to make choices to keep yourselves safe a quick final question it's in reference to potentials for a national lockdown would Wales be prepared to get alone on this or would it prefer to impose a national lockdown at the same time as the rest of the UK? The starting point is it isn't my objective to impose a national lockdown my objective is to keep people safe to keep people alive and well and if people follow all the rules you have a much better process of continuing with the freedoms that we've been able to do in now compared to national lockdown from the end of March through April and May that's what we're trying to do because the rules are there to allow us to carry on safely going about our business in a different way to the way we behaved at the start of this year if though we see an increasing rise in coronavirus across the country if we need to take local or national measures then yes of course we'll be prepared to make those choices our preference though is to have a joined up conversation across all four nations that's why we've been calling for cobra meetings that's why we still think it's the right thing to do I would much rather have a proper cobra process we can report across all four nations about the picture that we see to share information and intelligence to share possible answers to the challenges we face and then to be able to have a more unified communication message with everyone of the four nations if we're not able to do that then we are prepared to make our own choices here in Wales as indeed we did do when we went international lockdown that was a choice that we made with our powers but we did it in concert with other UK nations we made our own choices about the local lockdown measures in Caerphilly from a health minister's point of view that we've still continued talking with each other and we expect to have a conversation together again this week with our chief medical officers looking ahead to the autumn and the winter I think it would be of the benefit of all of us if that's a sort of conversation that we're taking place at a regular level between the first ministers and the prime minister and the assemble groups of people that helped to make the COBRA process a more effective one for the extraordinary times that we continue to live through I look forward to speaking to you again at Andrew but also to people across Wales that we continue with our unfinished fight in the coronavirus pandemic many thanks