 We're glad to know you're still there and watching the run-up. Last week we started a conversation about the entertainment industry, how it has grown. In fact, on Friday the last thing we played was the vice president dancing to the songs of some of our musicians. While on the one hand we were applauding him that at least he knows the names of these musicians and he sings their songs, he knows their songs, meaning that he knows them and is also trying to sell them out to the outside world. We also looked at the point where the government seems not to care about what happens in the entertainment industry. But in spite of that, that industry has grown to proportions that were not expected some years ago. Now I have in the studio here with me someone who has been behind the camera for a very long time, almost two decades I think, started with documentaries and then moved into mainstream moviemaking and all that. A director and producer and so many things. If you just mention one role in the movie industry, it's sure to have a hand in that. We're glad to welcome you today to the run-up King Asu. Welcome to the run-up. Thank you very much Agadir. I'm so happy to be here. Okay, let's start with that. Just you as a person, how you became a movie producer now. I've already told them you started with documentaries and all that, but you got to Lagos and this is King now. I think that was nearly 15 years ago. I just took the decision to make films. I fell in love with moviemaking and I said, okay, you know what? I wanted to make films. So when I left the university in 2003, the University of Calaba, where I by the way, majored in microbiology, I had nothing to do with film. Through Nijama. Yes, you know. So upon leaving the university, I went to the Cameroons from there to Amsterdam and later on back to Nigeria and I just headed straight to Lagos and just came and I said, when I come, I would decide, in my head, I wanted to be a writer. I came in and the first person I met was NSOB. I tried to meet NSOB. Then the actors' guild had an office somewhere in Nobby Street in Suruliri, you know. And I had the script already written, one or two scripts. Somebody read the script at Winnie's Hotel. We used to have a hotel somewhere called Winnie's Hotel, where actors wait to be hired and all that. Then Suruliri, you know. So somebody read this and told me, the person that liked this script is Teco Benson. It looks like an action movie. At that time, Teco Benson was a reigning actor, film director, action film director, you know. So they directed me to his office No. 2 Aguda Street then. So I got there and I met Teco and he read it and he laughed because I wrote as a novice. I went and Teco looked at it and he came across to him like a kind of kindergarten script and he asked me, would you like to do this? And I said, yes, that's why I'm here. So he asked me if I could write a series. And I said, yes, I'll try. So he gave me some heads-off like that and I went back and started writing. I came, he looked at it again, he laughed. He said, you could do better. And then he told me something. He said, God had told me, when you were leaving my office, God told me that I should work with you. So that's how my journey started. He employed me as his studio manager. I had a studio then called TFP Global Network. It was a production company. And of course, 20 years ago, that name, Teco Benson, was one of the best. Was quite a name. He asked about the industry today. He's still a very, very sound director. I must give it to him. So I started my journey in the industry from Teco Benson. And then after that, I think I was waiting for one year, Blessing eBay came and took over from there. I think from Teco Benson, I moved to B Concept Production. We started as a production manager, from production manager to editor. By the way, Teco Benson trained me as an editor. I started editing for B Concept Production. I started far back from a TV series then like Disclosure. We had Disclosure series. We had season one, season two, season three. After Disclosure, I think we took interest. We did Lucky Wives. And Lucky Wives was a bang at the time. Lucky Wives, I graduated to an assistant director and editor. So all through the seasons, I did Lucky Wives with Blessing eBay. So I stuck with Blessing because she's a very thorough producer, very thorough director. That's why I wasn't surprised when she was recently called as one of the Oscar judges, just recently. So I stuck with her because the industry had its problems that are still there till today. Part of those problems is discipline. And I saw in Blessing a very disciplined director. So I wanted to walk the road through the tight way. Now, I didn't want to be a lousy director and all those things we're here in the industry. I didn't want to do them because I was a man combining clergy work with film making. It was the most difficult kind of person. I can imagine that. A clergy and entertainment, the same worlds apart. In fact, that's my biggest problem being a film maker. If we have time, we'll go back to how you manage that. But from all the things you have said, it's like everybody who goes into the entertainment industry is more like a self-taught person, a self-made person and all that. We heard, even with the complaints from the industry that the government was not doing much for the industry, we heard when the last administration was here, talking about the administration of Goodluck, Jonathan, that there was a grant that was given to the entertainment industry. How easy, okay, first of all, confirm for us that it was true. And if that was true, how easy was it to access that grant that was given to the entertainment industry? At that time, this was 2014 or there about. I can't remember. There was truly a grant. How much was it? I think it was up to 2 billion Naira or so. Or 30 billion. It was handed over to the Bank of Industry. There was a grant. And a few producers, a few genuine producers were able to access. I think we were able to access to, I can't give details now, but I know we were able to access. I know a few other producers who got the money. So there was actually a grant thanks to that Goodluck, Jonathan's administration. There was something like that. But to tell you the truth, when I was sent by my boss then to go to Abuja and do the finishing of the grant. And when I went there, we got something. And to tell you the truth, I think Blessing Lake Bay and a few other people were the only producers who got that grant and used it to do what it was meant for. So there were people who went and took that grant and left Suruli, straight up, they came and rented houses in the island and started living. They never made films. They were supposed to be grant to make a film. But were they producers? They were producers. Producers accessed it and used it for their personal interests. And the government had no plan in place for follow-up. You know, when you take a grant, it's supposed to be like a department to check. It's like a loan. Even if it was a grant, we're not expected to pay back. They were just to eat the industry. That was the first time government made that kind of move. But did it help the industry? It helped. It helped. It helped a lot of people, even if some it was personal. But that grant helped. But I think that after Jonathan, I don't think it was continued. Maybe it meant in the bank of industry. I don't know how it continued, but I know that a lot of people who accessed it never used it for what it was meant to be. Maybe it died down. Or maybe it's still existing. For now, I really can't give you that update now. How it exists and you don't know about it. At least you could have known about it, but not able to access it. Those who can access it may know that it exists. People have been saying the industry has grown without... Without government funding. Without government funding. Let me not even say with or without. Without government funding. How do you think that funding will really... Because on the one hand, some people say government needs to fund it. On the other hand, some people are saying when government begins to fund it all the time there might be interference that will make the industry slow down instead of growing the way it is growing right now. But if they have to fund it, in what ways do you think the government should fund the entertainment industry that will make it better? Just this same way, grants. Just give grants. Yeah, grants, yeah. If you go to South Africa, there are grants. There are production grants for films. Although, I think in South Africa, female producers are small. You just go to access the phone and you make your film. Because why the film industry is suffering even till now and is still struggling? I don't think that massive blow-in has happened. It has not. But you are the second in the entire world. You are the second. In volume. Well? In volume. There is a difference between volume and quality of work. Okay, that I agree. Yes, there is a difference between volume and quality. Volume of films produced, yes. We can claim the second position or third or third. I think the second one after the Bollywood. But in terms of quality, you can equate. And you know that, that is where the funding comes in. Because if you want to tell certain stories, you want to tell because of the kind of CGI work involved, the kind of effects and all that you can't really... Some of the CGI works are really, really expensive. Like when we did the ten vegans, we did the ten vegans and the entire scene where the devil and the angel met in heaven and all that, we had just 30 extras that needed to be like 1,000. I needed CGI to do that. And I can tell you that one minute, as of that time, one minute of CGI was like 6 million. One minute. One minute, one minute to do that multiplication. It was crazy. Go and watch the ten vegans. I have watched it. I have watched the ten vegans. I have watched. Bless Nick. I directed it. I was assistant director. It was very expensive. So what are the lapses you see in the entertainment industry? Because it has grown, yes. But it could do better. Yes. Like you just said, quality is different from quality. Yes. You said it. What are the things that you think the Nigerian industry, the entertainment industry has to grow in that will make it better? Because it can't always be because of lack of money. Yes. I would like to see collaboration with foreign partners. That will help. Why is it not happening now? I would like to see collaboration with foreign partners. You see, if we have, for example, we have the TV series, the serials we have, the big bang action movies and all that. The film is segmented into different, you may want to do documentaries. I had a lot of passion for documentaries. I started with, I did Kings and their Kingdoms in 2010. But somebody clearly told me that documentaries don't pay. So I would like to see a situation where there can be collaborations. For example, if you do a documentary in Nigeria, you should be able to access places like National, Geowild and all those places and give them there. How is it that you are able to access Netflix now, for instance, but for other things you are not able to access? Even accessing the Netflix, there is a whole lot involved. A whole lot involved. Let's come back home. Let's look at the cinema in Nigeria, the entire release chain in Nigeria. It's shunted in a whole lot of secrecy. Those who already know the way don't like to tell the others. So they prefer to keep it to themselves. If, for example, you are the first person who run a particular company to sell a movie and you make money, instead of coming to tell others, they try to now turn around and make themselves the mediator. So we have a whole lot of that chain problem on distribution. Even in the cinema industry now, when you release a movie on cinema, it takes a whole lot, you have to go through this, you may have to wait for... In fact, I think they have started even giving tons. You wait for your turn and all that. That is, if you are able to even break through the chain. So there is also a milokon in the industry. Yes, yes. So we have producers who, you know, they have the cloud, the financial cloud, they have been able to break through. But, you know, they are producers and they are producers, they are directors and they are directors in cadres like that. They keep going up and up and up until you are... People like Kunlea Falion, people like Blaiseneck Bay, people like Entecho Benson, you know, some other... There are a lot of young, wonderful directors and producers coming up now who are accessing funding maybe through bankings and other sponsors elsewhere. I know that some banks like EcoBank had an internal funding for films. I don't know if they are still doing it. Some banks added productions in the past, some banks added it. But one of the major problems was the producers themselves, where you get a loan or a soft loan or a grant and you don't do what you are supposed to do. So that made people who were even interested to withdraw their interest. But I think that gradually is going to... Because if you go and check the cinemas now, you see a whole lot of beautiful, wonderful Nigerian movies that go up to 100 million and above. Yes, I've seen movies that have really interested me and all that. But how is the partnership between the industry itself and the private individuals... How is the involvement of private individuals in movie making, apart from banks, apart from the government and all that, are private individuals keying into what you are doing in the entertainment industry? There are, but slowly so. The reason is that people need to be sure yes, you may love films, but you don't want to throw your money and you're not sure of getting it back. Movie making is a business. Let's forget the entertainment aspect. This is a business, a huge, multi-billionaire company establishment. In Nigeria here, it has taken over 2 million Nigerians off the streets. So it's huge. And that's why, thanks to Good Luck Jonathan, he tried to see that. He recognized that fact. Yes, where is the employment? So the movie industry is taking helping a lot of people to get something to do. Because when you look at the end credit of a film, you're going to see that there are over 200 and something departments working behind the scenes to make a movie to happen. So they are all earning money, bit by bit by bit, and they are able to, I would have loved to see a situation where the government takes interest to fund the film industry. Come and set up a massive, in fact, even like a bank, a bank for that purpose, for entertainment alone. You understand? And then you just, because what is happening with the bank of industry since after this money was released, they say, if you don't know anybody there, trust me, you can access the phone. There are some people who might feel that you've just said that there's a lot of money in the movie industry and all that. They might not know there's money. So if a film, just give or take, a film is well made and it goes to the cinemas and everything, about how much can you make from a film that is well made? You cannot quantify. Try. If you put in good money and make a good film, you can quantify. What I said, I'm saying you cannot quantify is that a movie never stops selling. A film never stops selling. You keep selling forever. Till today, people still ask for likey vibes. Till today. So if, what would just happen is maybe the depreciation value because of the years, how long, how old the film is. Like if you release fresh, it can be going for as much as like if TV stations want to take there, a whole lot of this thing but then after some time as time keeps going, the depreciation value goes but a movie never stops selling. So there is no way you can quantify how much you stand to make. It's like forever. But I don't want to live forever. If I want to invest in a movie, I should know that okay, if I'm investing 10 million for instance. Then let me mention another thing that has been a source of challenge for private individuals coming in to make films. You know the Nigerian society people want to put in their money and get it next week. It's not like that with films. It takes a whole lot of time to make a good film. That's why if you look at the industry, it's segmented. There's the Legos industry, there's the Sabah industry, there's the Yoruba industry, it's segmented like that. That's why African magic too, Habibu, Yoruba, Hausa and all that is segmented. So the process, the time you put in to make a film is all not the same. These industries have mentioned that places where you go and they can make a movie in three days, in seven days. There are some people that can make a movie for a year, six months and all that. So the time, the money put in is all different. So why? Because it is the survival of the fittings. Everybody is just trying to survive. But there are still very thorough filmmakers who get proper funding and they take their time and make a movie. If you fund it, you have to understand that it takes time for movie money to come. Just being careful, you don't want to say the amount. Okay, let's say if you put in 100 million, you can make two. 200 million in the space of, let's say, one year. Yes, so you don't come and put in 100 million and the next day you are calling the producer, where's my money? It's not a granite. There were times you would go into a studio to make music for instance and you're doing five or eight, like in my case, make eight songs in one session. The instrumentation will be inside that session. The bossing will be there. The mastering will be there inside eight hours. Today, you take three months to do one song and you say he's a single and you make your money. People were making... Because again, you know that the truth of the matter is that there are more sales outlets. There are more, there's YouTube, you can make your music, your film, you just put it somewhere. So they say, hold on. I would add a lot of... I would encourage anybody who wants to invest in the film industry to come forward. It's a large industry. We want it to blow the way the music industry has blown. Now in the world, all over the world, you cannot mention two countries in terms of music. We are taking over. So we want it to happen to the film industry too. Okay, we've been talking with a producer, a director, a scriptwriter, that didn't make it as a scriptwriter anyway. I made it as an editor. Yes, everything. But we're glad to have him and he's been able to expose us to the fact that there's a lot of money in the entertainment, not just moviemaking in the entertainment industry. Why not adopt an artist today? Whether a writer, a producer or a singer or something, adopt someone as it were and then make sure you sponsor that person in the craft that the person does. Employment will be there, money will be in so many pockets and all that. But we've had a pleasure having you today. We hope that when we want to seek advice on moviemaking we can come to you and get free advice. We like free things in Nigeria. Thank you so much for coming. I'm glad to be. The program continues after the news. Don't go away. It's still the run-up.