 On Thursday, the Minister of Aviation, Harthi Surika, told a media conference that the airlines debt owed agencies like the Nigerian Airspace Management Agency NAMA, the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority NCAA, the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria FAN, has accumulated over 13 years and contributes to the poor management of Nigerian civil aviation. According to Surika, the federal government will, in line with current reforms, double down on such debtors, like the Baikotne, which owes, according to them, $14 billion naira. And as much as Baikotne came out yesterday to deny that they were owing any of such debts to the federal government. But joining us to discuss this and other issues in the sector is the President of the Air Transport Services Senior Staff Association of Nigeria, Artsan Elitris Amadu. Many thanks for joining us, Elitris, on Business Insight and Plus TV Africa. Good evening, Justin. Good evening, viewers. All right, good evening to you yet again. Let's look at this particular month. It is very, very humongous looking at $37 billion naira, according to the Minister of Aviation, Harthi Surika. It says the debt had been accumulating for 13 years. How come it has been so long and the federal government has not been able to recoup all of this debt? Well, I thank you, Justin. I'm going to speak on this issue based on my knowledge of the airline in debt testness as the President of the Union. Like you rightly said, it's a debt that accumulated over the time. A lot of airlines have come on and gone without paying this debt, so to speak. But let me put it in clear perspective. Some of these monies are NAF charges due to air space management agency landing parking charges due to fun. Ticket sales charge due to the Nigeria Civil Aviation Authority. Particularly the ticket sales charge. The law, the Civil Aviation Act 2006, created a statutory agency where airlines collect these tickets charges paid by passengers. And they are to remit to the regulatory authority. We must note that this money is not due to NCA loan. It's shared between NAMA, NCA, AIB, INCAT for the effective functioning of the performance of the statutory responsibilities. So actually you would want to know why this debt compounded over the period of time. It is a result of non-compliance with the provisions of the law and partly due to the non-automation of the collection system over a period of time. However, the current regime is that most of the airlines have gone up in automated, the collection system has been automated. So the monies are collected as they operate as the passengers pay. The deductions are made on the platform. But the bulk of this is accumulated debts over the years. And basically because of the default on the part of the airlines who collect this money and refuse to remit back to the authority. You recall too that NAMA had taken steps in the past to inject some new systems of collection like pay as you go. If you have to pay the charges before you are given clearance to take off. It has helped a great deal but still some of these debts are there. And most importantly, the fact that a lot of airlines that have gone down, have been liquidated, have closed shops, have gone down with these monies. Which I don't know how the federal government is going to... All right, Elitras, if I have to adjust, I'm cheaping at this particular time. You mentioned some innovation that NAMA had actually put in place to ensure that these debts are collected over time. But it's been over 13 years and it's now humongous. It's over 34 billion Naira. Wouldn't you think that if the federal government had maybe done some sort of public-private and partnership to ensure these debts are collected that the evasion sector in Nigeria would be much better than where it is at the moment? Well, I agree with you very well that we should be very proactive in the area of collection of revenue due to the respective agencies. These monies that, statutorily, the users of the services of the various agencies are supposed to pay for services rendered to them. But then I must say, like I did identify earlier on, we were slow to automate the reason why the debts compounded over the period of time. It is good that a number of the airlines are coming on board. I can tell you government has made several efforts in the past to ensure recovery of these monies. The unions have equally been involved. I remember about two committees were set up in the past because of union agitation for the collection of these monies from the airlines. The committees had a rich certain understanding. Tresh holes were set for the old debts. They were supposed to be paying over a period of time, the airlines, they signed into it. With regards to the new debts, they were supposed to be paying as they go, as they collect the pay. So the understanding was that they would liquidate the backlog over a period of time, but I can tell you it has been one case of default after the other. But then, like I said, if the government were to plumb down on all the airlines, probably none would fly. So I think what has compounded the situation now is the state of the industry as a result of the devastating effect of COVID. COVID-19. Airlines are growing as a result of various factors. You know the challenges of the industry, the lack of maintenance capabilities. Most operators have to be able to be in control. Before we wrap up this particular session, also in the news yesterday was some chairing development for frequent flights. You know how devastating it could be when you go to the airport and you've been told that your flight has been delayed and cancelled. The federal government came out yesterday and said that if flights are delayed for about two hours, you get 100% compensation. Now you get 100% of what you actually paid for that particular ticket. How feasible is this and what exactly is the law saying concerning this particular development in aviation and flights? Well, I thought what the minister meant was if flights are delayed beyond two hours, there should be reimbursement of the airfare. So passengers would have to make a decision, pick another flight to get to their destinations. However, I think the industry has been under tremendous pressure lately. There are quite a number of issues ranging from disenchantment from our brothers and sisters who are living with reduced mobility to the issues of flight delays and cancellations that it were, but I think the minister spoke specifically to the issue of flight delays. It is a regulatory issue, but you know when I'm aware that the various agencies have been summoned to the National Assembly in accordance to the various complaints that have been made. But in literature, how feasible is it? Is it feasible that passengers can get 100%? Like I said to you, it's a regulatory issue. First, if an operator reasonably expects that a scheduled flight would be delayed, the operator is under obligation to inform the passengers 30 minutes after the scheduled departure time of the reasons for the delay. And secondly, the airline needs to remind the passengers of their rights under the regulations. There are various rights. For instance, the flight is delayed beyond two hours. Passengers are entitled to refreshments. Probably telephone calls, SMSs, emails to their wards and relations at the points of destination to notify them of the reasons for the delay. If the delay exceeds 30 hours as per the regulation, airlines should make reform and pay the necessary compensations as it were under the regulations. If it exceeds 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. in the morning, the airlines are required to provide hotel accommodation, transportation from airport to the hotel and back to the airport for them to board the scheduled flights. But I can tell you, these are regimes that are being enforced by the relevant authorities. And it's been difficult for airlines to comply. We are specifically out of time on this segment. I'm afraid that there's as much as we can take on this particular issue. I'm sure we'll bring you back again next week so we can talk on other issues bordering on the aviation sector. Thank you yet again. We've been speaking with the president of the Air Service Junior Staff Association of Nigeria and we're looking at the issues in the aviation sector vis-à-vis the refund, 100% refund for passengers when their flight is delayed by two hours and of course the issue of debts being owed to the federal government in the sector. We'll take a quick break and I will just give you some useful insight on what you need to know when starting a small business. Stay with us.