 from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re-invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. And good afternoon, welcome back here to Las Vegas. We're at the Sands live here at AWS re-invent 2018 to seventh time. theCUBE has been fortunate enough to cover this grand event. John Wall is Justin Warren, and Jeff Shiner, who's director of IoT and security at Micron. Jeff, thanks for being with us here on theCUBE. Thank you. Yeah, first off, let's just talk about IoT and security, if you will. Okay. I mean, big picture. You know, in a lot of sensor technology, IoT, multiple, multiple challenges, multiple problems, and security obviously, first and foremost. So how do you approach your job philosophically when the IoT world continues to evolve and really exponentially explode? So absolutely, we've seen, we're working at this point with software partners, we're working with OEM customers, some of their integrators, and we just have to be able to talk to anybody about the biggest problems in the industry around security, which has become one of the most dominating factors holding back any growth in IoT. At least that's what it seems like. And I think everybody thought last year it was going to grow, then this year it was going to grow, and now we're seeing that there's new hurdles. As they go and they maybe implement a key orchestrator in the cloud to help with key management, they run into another bottleneck. So there's just really a lack of full end-to-end solutions. And so that's what we do. We work with all of our partners to create full end-to-end solutions and take the burden off of our customers. So how do you catch up to it? Because if you've already got this plane, this landscape of IoT devices and sensors, and as you start to fit them with security solutions, all of a sudden this whole new world takes place, right? And so how do you catch up? And to the point that you do get comfort to the IoT world to let them know, whatever new capability you have come down the pike, we can take care of for it. So it's hard because probably the two biggest problems that we see right now is ability to manage keys necessary to manage devices. And so that's an awareness thing that we need to really focus on to make sure there's the awareness of a unified approach coming down the pipe with micron. But the other side of it is the maturity of our customers in general. There is just not enough cybersecurity specialists in the industry to help every company get to where they need to be. And so right now where they are in the company is sometimes hard to find. And companies in a lot of cases don't even know who to go to because they're either new or not pervasive enough in their own company to help the service departments that need to actually monetize this stuff. So part of it, I think, has just been waiting for customers to get to that point to where they understand enough. And that's held back a lot as well. So how we catch up, I think, is to really do, unfortunately, evangelize. You got to really get out there and evangelize new approaches and help the customers get over that maturity curve. So I think that's probably one of the things that we're very focused on right now. Yeah, and you've got an announcement, I believe, about a new way of helping your customers put security in at the very base levels of their products. So tell us a bit more about that. So micron is one of the largest semiconductor companies in the world. And we have a very pervasive attach rate of standard memory that is all over systems. So we're taking secure element mechanisms that you might be familiar with in other parts of a system. And we're co-locating that onto standard flash memory that would boot systems or store critical data and just protecting the platforms at the flash location, which simplifies a lot of things. And then secondly to that, we're taking the cost burden off. We're still selling flash as standard flash. So we have this key management system in the cloud that will facilitate keys getting where they need to be. So this is kind of trying to address the most critical aspects. Don't burden your customers and simplify some of the big hurdles that they have. Yeah, I think that has been one of the challenges of putting security into some of these devices is partly the cost and also the complexity is doing this sort of thing at scale is quite hard and actually baking it into the hardware itself so that it's available is quite difficult. It's a very fragmented industry at the moment. I think we've got different solutions from different vendors and everyone seems to be taking a slightly different approach to things. So maybe you could tell us a bit more about how Micron is helping customers to, I don't know, to be able to cut through all of that noise and figure out which way should I use to do this? What is it about the Micron solution that you think is going to really help customers to pick a good solution to bake things in with? Well first, it comes back down to the fact that flash is so pervasive. It's your BIOS and servers and laptops. It's in medical devices and factory automation devices. It's all over your car. So if you have a footprint that can be unified, first and foremost, you're making it easier on everybody. But second to that is the silicon root of trust that you need to truly have security by design is only good if you know how to turn it on. And so that means partners coming together, building truly silicon to cloud solutions that have the ability for a device to bring its own trust now and these zero trust network approaches that are really being proven and necessary. So a device that can wake up, check, verify everything is good and then gain its credentials or provide credentials that say I'm good so it gets privileges. That takes software at many different levels. It doesn't have to have a lot of software partners to provide high level of integrity. So you'll see Micron coming out with lots of announcements with partners including cloud partners like we're here today, but also plumbing partners that really are the TLS sessions and then software over there update partners and other ways to manage IoT devices. And when these become end-to-end plug and play with a pervasive security element, then you can have a simplified security story. Yeah, it is interesting having a hardware vendor or traditionally a hardware vendor at a cloud show which is all about software and this ephemeral idea is like actually turns out hardware matters. I think that people have been talking about silicon or security by design for quite some time and it just takes time for a silicon company to actually build that in because you actually have to change silicon or at least the processes around it to truly make it secure. And so we just think that the common footprint, the standard approach with Flash was a good place to invest and so that's what we've done. We've been trying to talk about security for a while. Sorry, John. It's something that has come up year after year. I know we were talking about it last year when we were here with theCUBE. Where do you think we are in the security journey for IoT? Like, are we at the beginning? Are we at the end of the beginning? Are we somewhere in the middle? Where do you think we have to go with that? It's so much the beginning because I think everybody is realizing, there's a lot of epiphanies every year, maybe they come about. I would characterize this year as the epiphany being that hey, maybe there's more than one way you can make money on security. But really up until this point, people have been just looking at, I just want to register a device or register a subscription. Well, that has to have an identity that you are registering. That's just one point in time. Okay, who's been focusing on secure supply chain before that? Who's been focusing on over their updates after that? So, the identity that maybe in the past was driven by a SIM or something that's just an identity now gets to get bolstered with more valuable identities that have measurement bounds or basis in them for auto-routing in the cloud or new types of isolation. And I think where it really comes fully around is software definable apps and microservices that are now enabled to enable some of the newer really cloud to edge movement of data and services. So it opens up a lot of new realms. I mean, edge gets to get more capable. You start to move containers down to the edge more efficiently because they have to be secure. So there's a lot of new ways that these things will get monetized. Because when you have a device now that by silicon can prove trust, it starts to be the thing that can authenticate at various points in time. I recently, I was trying to put it into a mode where I have recently had an issue on I won't say the particular game console but at my house, my son likes to play games and I received a bill, he didn't do it. Somebody got into his game, I won't talk which game it was and was buying credits or I'm not trying to be agnostic to the game here. But what if that was signed by hardware that's known and registered to my house? Could that be done? No, it couldn't, not if done right. There's so many new opportunities and things that can be signed by silicon, verification that will open up new opportunities. So let's close out by talking about those opportunities down the road and really from a security perspective. What do you see as being kind of the call to arms, if you will, or what the biggest concern is and what's the best way to address that, do you think? What we're doing is we're trying to get partners to step up and work with us, unify the approaches. So look at things in a standard way. Make sure that if you go forward, you don't pick proprietary approaches that are going to benefit only one vendor. If you do it that way, you're not going to have success. Too many partners have realized that you have to be open, you have to work with other partners. You're seeing business models change because of that. We do the same, we work with even competitors of what would be traditionally a competitor of our memory because we have to have sources too. So the more things are standard, the better we'll all be. It will accelerate time to market and it'll also save our customers a ton of money. And then you get to start talking about how users can do new things. And then it's a win-win. It becomes a very much a win-win story. Jeff, thanks for being with us here on theCUBE. We appreciate the time and good luck with the rest of your show. All right, I appreciate it. Jeff Shiner from Micron joining us here on theCUBE. Back with more from Las Vegas we're at AWS re-invent and we'll see you in a bit.