 I'm Steve Zercher, host of Looking to the East here on Think Tech Hawaii. Welcome to our show this week. We have a very special guest with us as you may recall last last show we were taking a look at the economic impact of the Ukraine invasion and I had some experts from Europe and Japan and we often we're talking about Taiwan as a part of this overall economic impact of the Ukrainian invasion and Jiri Mseki who was on the show with me and I know Andrew our guest very very well from his days in Japan and I thought well we should find out what's going on in Taiwan from someone who's actually there and in a very important role so Andrew welcome to the show thank you so much for attending I know it's very early in the morning for you in Taipei Andrew is the president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Taiwan but he's held a significant number of interesting positions previous to his current role so let's start at the beginning Andrew tell me I looked at your your LinkedIn page and your background and you studied international relations in college and seemed to be very interested in this type of career from at least your college days can you tell me what got you interested in this role that's led to so many interesting positions for you all over the world and now in Taiwan as well great glad to very good to see you again Steve after a break Aloha to everybody glad to be joining the program and share a few a few views thanks for taking me back a number of decades to how I got started in the international game fortunate confidence of factors probably similar to many people you talk to who wind up in it in an international gypsy mode like I did first helped where I was coming from I was growing up in Buffalo New York late 70s early 80s it wasn't a go-go happy time for that part of the world so there were some impetus to explore you know broader horizons at the time I had the means to get overseas coming out of high school courtesy of the Rotary Foundation which had very generous exchange fellowships and I was lucky enough to apply and win one of those then I was fortunate to have a couple really good teachers and mentors who planted the seed and also directed where I might want to go wonderful Asian studies teacher out of out of junior high school who had been to every country she taught about and then I had a great uncle who had a warm fondness for Asia and Japan in particular and and and these two told me well East Asia would be a wonderful place to go the most exciting options I had were India and Japan and I had one more influence I came from a larger family and older brothers and sisters were out exploring Europe and they said hey that's pretty easy for an American with limited languages as we as many of us have why don't you go further and so I stretched it as far as I could it was a toss up between India and Japan very happy that I chose Japan it altered my awareness development and family connections because I met and happily married a fellow exchange student who was headed from Japan to Australia and that planted the seed and then and then I knew I wanted to do international and that sort of programmed me on that course where college education kept me on the Japan track international relations really sparked the interest in international commerce and trade and then when I was considering careers and the foreign service appeared I targeted in particular the commerce department's foreign service wing because I wanted to be closer to business closer to action on the ground and that ended up being a great choice because I had a very dynamic enjoyable eclectic overseas career with the department of commerce so you were an exchange student at one point either in high school or in college is that correct correct so uh living in inside Tomah Japan a bed town north of Tokyo I had four host families and I went was lost on me but I went to a hyper competitive all boys school uh where I was the just about the star in English and almost nothing else yeah we do achieve that status when we come to Japan especially back back in that day when I had a few more men missionaries were the only ones in town from from outside Japan but I'm still in touch with those classmates of you know 30 plus years ago some exceptional people one is in training to head back to the international space station where he has a record as one of the longest serving oh my wow and he's hoping to get make his third trip shortly so was it difficult to get into the commerce department I often I've had guests in my classroom were on the show that are in the state department and they tell me that that particular set of exams and so forth is quite challenging is commerce I would imagine is the same the time that I came in it was actually a a single channel so I took the same foreign service exam oh you did okay and went through the process of uh yeah fairly rigorous written screening and then a quite rigorous all-day oral exams and I'm lucky enough to get through that I was then confronted with a chart where you could check off the agencies of interest and this was now the height of US Japan trade frictions so anybody in the 80s we're talking about yeah we're talking early 80s mid 80s right and anybody with some Japan background was in high demand for the US government so it was an interesting situation the state department was actually courting me saying oh come on in well you know the water's warm we've got some interesting assignments for you and and the commerce department was oddly just because it's a small operation and and without the scale it's hard to uh to to take in and place people where they want to head so they were telling me I'm you know we're not so interested and if you come you're not going to go to Japan but I persevered because I believe that long term that was the very interesting career path and it worked out well because they had another interesting assignment for me which I was interested in and that was Korea so your first assignment with the commerce department was Korea four years in in Seoul uh for pre-chorus days obviously a very challenging market at the at the time early years of democratization so that that proved to be fortuitous because it expanded my horizons it kept me uh in East Asia but then again as I mentioned I ended up doing a quite a wandering through a range of markets and I left uh yeah I was looking it was all over the world you were posted yeah so in the Middle East as well as Asia uh Mexico loomed on the on the horizon next uh and then having gotten Spanish under the belts uh by studying in country Peru was a natural uh next stop uh then uh uh Germany I made a uh a very interesting venture from there to go to serve in in Baghdad and I spent about 20 months in the international zone uh there wow came out of that experience and said I'm ready to recharge in Asia uh Hong Kong was available um so I had uh four very good years uh in Hong Kong and then finally the chance to uh to return to Japan came up and I made a yeah I hear the Japan uh placements are very very competitive that many diplomats uh in the State Department the Commerce Department want to serve here for because of the quality of life and so forth so usually you know that even our consulate here of people like Karen Kelly and Richard I'm sure you know I mean they're very senior and they get these roles it's usually their last assignment in their long careers here so not surprised it took a while to get to Japan but we're now as you were going from these place to place uh were you doing essentially the same thing or were you doing different roles in each of these countries well commerce is a specialized and smaller agency in the international space and uh so we do have uh unlike uh the State Department diplomats who might take a range of very different differing they might be an administrative officer at one post they may have started out on the visa line with consular work but then their specialty may be political for much of their career the Commerce Department's mission is uh promoting U.S. exports and the interests of U.S. companies overseas uh a natural alliance and how we got to know one another through the American Chamber of Commerce is their core uh for those officers so much more similarity in the in a function uh and that made it possible to jump from such different cultural milieus because the the crux of the day-to-day work was consistent so you just had to had to pick up the local flavor the the local market dynamics but you could uh essentially bring your toolkit to bear in uh in in every market right yeah and I I have to say you were you're particularly good at that you know networking and promoting the interests of the U.S. when I was working with you when I was involved with the ACCJ here in Japan okay so let's move forward then after 20 some odd years of working in the Commerce Department and living in all of these exotic and wonderful locations you decided to do something new to move uh outside of the government service and I think you began to teach and do some other things but eventually you decided to take a position uh in Taiwan with the American Chamber of Commerce which of course you must have known really well I mean certainly in Japan you were working very closely with us when you were in the Commerce Department here but you probably did that in other regions as well so tell us how you ended up becoming the president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Taiwan and got that exciting job sure thanks well the transition out of the foreign service was was also an interesting experience the last assignment I took leaving Tokyo was a non-traditional one it was a posting as a visiting professor at National Defense University in in Washington DC right and this was an exciting time to be looking at defense mobilization, economic security issues, things that I had touched through my career and now had an opportunity to go back share teach some of what I had learned in the trenches back back in the classroom and to think about what I wanted to do in the future and where I wanted to to base myself and the international fever in me was still pretty strong so as much as I after all these years Andrew you wanted to hop on a plane again ready after after after a couple years as much as I enjoyed the the stimulation of well of academia and DC in particular it's a wonderful wonderful place to to base yourself so it was actually an opportunity to work for the UK government right casting about for something to do and and the coronavirus was casting its net on all of us one of one of the opportunities that was before me was to be a locally employed hire in Japan working on the life sciences sector so very much akin to the work I did with commerce with it with a sectoral focus 50 percent looking at Japan and 50 percent greater East Asia for the UK trade investment office and I asked particularly not to go back to where I had been which was Eastern Japan Kanto in Tokyo but I said I want to explore the other side the Asia facing part of of Japan in Kansai brought me into your neighborhood the best part of Japan on my dad it is a wonderful place to live and I'm so glad I did that but in the in the course of that it became very difficult to do the regional piece because nobody was moving anywhere with Japan's constraints it was difficult just to get into the office and at that time one of the markets that was freest of the pandemic and the most normal activity was what happened to be Taiwan and they were it was a star in the early days of covid and that the infection rates were the New Zealand and Taiwan were the two that I remember is doing an incredible job in the early stages of the pandemic did it in a smart humane fashion really leveraged technology very effectively and and were blessed with a very cohesive and supportive public so that was a fascinating transition to go from Washington DC to Japan and Western Japan and then to Taiwan and do a cultural comparison of how people react so just as an aside one thing that surprised me I thought I knew something about Japan and East Asia but my stereotypical view was that the Japanese were going to be very regimented very cautious and careful lock step behind whatever public advisory they got on behavior and that the Taiwanese and the Chinese mindset might be a little bit more risk accepting a little more individualistic not so accepting of of guides from the top just the opposite when I arrived in Taiwan having seen how some Japanese were pushing back and looking to evade some of the restrictions that Taiwanese were saying just the opposite you don't need to tell us to be careful we'll be more careful than you're suggesting which is a key part of the of the of the success that Taiwan enjoyed not just for the early stages but really up until May 2021 remarkable success at at keeping cases down to and down to the handful of serious cases fast forward a remarkable opportunity opens up at a great chamber that enjoys a remarkable cooperative relationship with the host authorities with the US government it is while it's in the same space of amchams around the world it operates very differently I had seen that coming out of Tokyo and making a visit where I went for to a regional gathering of amchams hosted in Taipei and it coincided with their annual thank thank you banquet to the host government and president Maing Joe himself attends the banquet with 500 600 business leaders and doesn't drop by he spends the evening with the American business community and it wasn't just a one-off this is it turns out is the annual rhythm of things that's the access that and the relationship that this chamber and business community enjoy over their 71 years now of of operation so we were able to pull off another 700 head extravaganza just on March 30th with President Tsai Ing-wen the AIT director Sandra Outkirk and another 700 leaders from the business and political communities were able to mix and mingle and and do the kind of networking and discussion of how to make Taiwan a more open competitive market that we've been able to do now for decades and I'm in the position of being able to be a small part of that so it's been it's been a great year wonderful yeah you're coming up on the full year now in in that role how big is the chamber of course you know I'm familiar with the American Chamber of Commerce here in Japan which is very influential and you know 3000 members and so forth and also has the similar access to both government contacts and embassy contacts as well so in terms of members are most of the American companies that are located in Taiwan a part of the American Chamber and do you also have local businesses Taiwanese businesses that have joined as we've observed here in Japan with the ACCJ yes we do just quick bearing size wise we're not in the of the Japan scale we're pushing 1100 individual members and that's still a huge number that's big it's a good size is it's a large chamber about 540 companies wow maybe 10 percent over over this past year we do have a diverse base of the largest share would be American capital American origin companies but but a goodly number of Taiwan companies and third country as well we have 26 sectoral committees which is a bunch whoa okay and what maybe you're so busy what maybe a surprise is what was not on the roster until just about three four months ago and that is a semiconductor committee so I found it sort of akin to being posted to Saudi Arabia and finding there was no oil and gas committee that's right and when I think of Taiwan I mean they're most successful industry it's that one yep and the firms were there the interest was there they just were organized in a tech committee and didn't have that focus but with the intensity of scrutiny from all all governments all public sectors industry itself trying to de kink supply chains work on you know really challenging human resource limitations you know energy issues around the tech sector that really was a crying need to come together as a group and to draw from all those national groups and and we're in the early stages but having great success and that's fueling some of the growth of our chamber people are really interested and enthusiastic to get on board see what we can do through public private partnerships to tackle some of these really thorny issues so over the last year what what have you learned or observed in terms of the trading patterns in Asia in Taiwan's an economic power and has a strong relationship economically with Japan and even though you're with the American Chamber of Commerce because of your background in the Commerce Department and working in in Japan I'm sure you you have visibility or interest in how Taiwan Japan is doing and also of course your natural interest and that's encouraging trade between Taiwan and the United States in both directions so can you give us an overview of what you've learned over the last year are these relationships growing currently despite the pandemic and other political pressures that are out there obviously in Asia yeah it's an incredibly fluid and dynamic time to be stepping in and learning about Taiwan the economic relationships are changing and and growing the geopolitical forces the pressures in that bilateral and triangular relationships between Beijing Washington and Taipei are indeed having an impact on trade patterns the bigger picture is that it's a bright scenario for Taiwan in recent periods when we look quantitative and qualitatively what's happening with Taiwan trade and investment the economy grew at a remarkable pace last year its highest rate in I believe it is 11 years over 6% GDP wow that's remarkable and and and and two big drivers one we discussed the relatively permissive business environment although borders were closed movement internally was free there was not industrial disruption and and so Taiwan was a beneficiary there in addition the areas that Taiwan is strong in not just semiconductor supplies but the ICT telecom electric vehicle 5g sectors were all ones that were in hot demand in part driven by coronavirus pandemic you know forces everybody needed work from home kit and Taiwan was ready to to supply those exports so that was a big boost and perhaps paradoxically the tensions across the strait were downed again to Taiwan's benefit and fallout from Trump era sanctions and and US-China tensions also had a tendency to support China as as trade patterns readjusted there was a significant reshoring of Taiwanese investment out of China into Taiwan historically Taiwan was one of the first countries to begin to do uh outsource manufacturing in mainland China back in the old days so now it's actually beginning to come the other direction that's interesting the footprint remains massive and although it was in relationship to Taiwan's economy and appreciable move backwards the orientation of trade and investment to China remains at a high level so I don't want to play that that portion but again I think Taiwan firms are in being appreciated globally for their importance in a lot of critical high technology supply chains as you know not just the US but Japan and Europe are eager to draw Taiwan as a partner TSMC the flagship foundry semiconductor manufacturer in particular to help reestablish and shore up supply chains in all of those markets those are not it's not a single firm moving to phoenix or to kumamoto but an entire ecosystem that needs to come along with those firms so that's some interest back in in North America and the east coast uh honhai or focacan as it is known is uh investing aggressively in in the uh electronic vehicle space that's stimulating growth in battery technology and uh Taiwan is at a position now where there's a happy meeting of interests where just at the time where either energy or just space constraints are pushing Taiwanese companies out we have a welcoming pull from from key trade partners an opportunity for Taiwan to diversify its trade patterns outside of of China which is a national priority of the Xi administration and also to move up the value chain to get out of contract manufacturing and and to become an OEM or system supplier or or brand overseas I think is a is a fascinating process to watch and I think something that our member firms can support and our chamber itself through some of the orientation or training or counseling or human resources development we can add to ensure that those companies just don't go overseas but they go overseas and succeed for the long term so um so hey Andrew we're running out of time this always goes by so quickly but I want to close as a veteran uh as in wanderlust living all over the world can you can you just maybe in a minute or two tell me about what the first year has been for you to live in Taiwan as as compared to Japan or maybe some of the other locations have you adapted well to Taiwan are you enjoying yourself there and your family as well yeah a good note to end on because it has been a delight on a on a personal level that the friendliness and warmth of the Taiwanese who I'd met often on over the year still took me by surprise I've gotten a welcome all throughout Asia always with a different flavor or characteristic but anybody who's not been here I would encourage you to to give it a try the predominance of English is perhaps surprisingly strong here there's a big push to go bilingual in the education system and Taiwanese are just wonderfully welcoming people the dislocation of the year made it tough because I had some family separation but my wife I mentioned this originally from Japan is joined just over the the Chinese new year and so we're making a comfortable life in a in a the northern section of Taipei and just really enjoying getting to know the the culture in this very rich island wow yet another adventure for you that's fantastic well thank you so much for again waking up early in Taipei and spending time with me on on my show I think this has been very interesting you are hiring I noticed on your LinkedIn page you're looking for people so any of the viewers who are interested in working with Andrew or maybe replicating his life his career as it's moved through the various stages and living all over the world you can check out Andrew's LinkedIn page and you'll see more information about the open position there Andrew if I was younger I'd be applying I think you'd be welcome thank you very much really appreciate it thank you everyone for tuning in viewing the show I'll be back on again in a few weeks with yet another topic on looking to the east thank you and goodbye for now aloha mahalo