 Okay, and Greg ready? Okay, and we have a quorum. She's on both boards. Yes. All right. Yes. Yeah. All right. So I will call the July, what is today, 18th, 2018, select board meeting to order. And I'll call the SXS Junction trustee meeting to order. And I'll invite you to rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We'd like to welcome you to tonight's joint select board and village trustee meeting. And as I mentioned before, if you could please be sure to sign in so that we have that for the minutes. That would be greatly appreciated. And most of us carry these nowadays. And if you please think next item is agenda additions and changes. Greg or Evan, any, any changes? Just in case if we have to go to an exact session then, but we don't want to do that later. Okay. Super. And then we'll skip number three, since there's nothing to approve on any agenda changes. And we'll go to number four, which is public to be heard. That's a time for the public to speak to the select board and village trustees on items that are not on tonight's agenda. Is there anyone here tonight wishing to speak during public to be heard? John, if you could just state your name for the record, please. My name is John Fitzgerald. I live at 15 R. Allen Drive. And that's at very close to Jackson Heights. And the traffic on Pinecrest is getting worse off. It's very difficult to get out of Jackson Heights onto that street because of the traffic coming over the top of the hill. There's a lot of trees on looking up from those. There's a lot of trees on the left-hand side. And so cars coming over the hill have a hard time seeing. And since we seem to have quite a backup at the five corners and places like that, Pinecrest has really developed quite a traffic line in the morning and around school time in the afternoon. And I thought perhaps that if Jackson Heights was made possibly one way in that we would eliminate any possibility or reduce the possibility of a collision at the corner of Jackson Heights and Pinecrest Drive. I understand that there is money in place for a sidewalk on Jackson Heights to complete that. I spoke about that at town meetings many a long time ago. And I understand that the money is available. So we'd like to see some things happen to prevent accidents. Once they happen, we never know what the outcomes are going to be. Thank you very much. Kevin, is that something you could look into? Can that step look at it? Maybe at our Outstanding Achievement Award Winner Public Works Directorate Department could have a discussion with me after he gets back. Okay. Thanks for bringing that forward, John. Appreciate it. Anybody else wishing to speak during public to be heard? Okay. Thank you. Then we're going to go on to our business section of the meeting. Again, the joint meeting with the Village Trustees. We are very excited tonight. There's a presentation of Outstanding Achievement in Public Works Award for our very own Dennis Lutz. And, Aaron, you want to kick it off? Of course, I'd like to thank you all for having us on the agenda tonight. My pleasure. We have a lot to talk about. There was a lot of back and forth that a lot of us know on where to have the meeting held and who was going to present it. We all agreed that here, both boards, joint meeting in his community that he's been serving for the majority of his professional career would be the best place for it. Dennis tonight is going to be presented with the Outstanding Achievement in Public Works Award from the New England chapter of APWA. This is a pretty good recognition, a great recognition for his achievement throughout his professional career. Not only here in this community, but his service to his country and the state of Vermont. We've got Lisa Scheffler here, Assistant Public Works Director for the Town of Williston, and our Vermont rep to the Board of Directors for APWA of the New England chapter. Thank you. Thank you, Aaron. Thanks, Ari. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. As Aaron had mentioned, Lisa Scheffler, the Assistant Director of Public Works for the Town of Williston, Vermont. And I also serve as a board of director member for the state of Vermont on the New England chapter of APWA. Along with me is Rick Merson, who also is a board member from Massachusetts and a past president for APWA for the New England chapter. Let me just give you a little background of what the New England chapter does. Our mission and purpose, and forgive me for reading this, but I don't have it memorized, but the purposes of this chapter are to cause and share with our community the advancement of the theory and the practice of the design, construction, maintenance, administration, and operation of public works facilities and services. The dissemination of information and expertise, the promotion of improved practices in public works administration, the expectations that all members of public work officials will adhere to high professionalism and ethical standards and the professional and social improvements of its members. That is the New England chapter's mission and purpose. The New England chapter consists of five different states through New England, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. We have approximately 24 board members that are on the board. We sponsor numerous activities throughout the year. We have a spring conference, a summer conference, fall conference, a snow plow conference. We also have mechanics workshops that we sponsor. We sponsor the National Public Works Week luncheon, which is along the same week of National Public Works Weeks, which is the third week of May. We have the Administrative Professional Recognition Day. And this year we just implemented fill a truck event, which is basically allowing public works and municipalities to collect food goods for different food shelves throughout the state. As you know, the end of May is about when school starts to wrap up and food shelves start to run out of food. So the New England chapter is one of the most active and productive chapters in the country in Canada. We have received many and numerous national awards over the years. And we also, many of the board members have introduced and have recently had the National APWA chapter adopt the Fallen Heroes Resolution. So basically, if a public works person falls in a line of duty similar to what firefighters in the police department have, we now have available to us. And the New England chapter initiated that. Along we have monthly board meetings in which we discuss public works awareness and how to make all these sponsored sessions that we do work and work efficiently. So that's what the New England Public Works chapter does. And the reason we're here tonight, we also, not only do we receive awards nationally, we also promote and give out awards through New England. And tonight we are here to present the Outstanding Achievement and Public Works Award. The Outstanding Achievement and Public Works Award identifies and recognize the significance achievements and innovations by a chapter member or organization. Ethesis is given to in-house projects that improve productivity, cut costs, and offer a new approach of providing services from which others in the industry can benefit. Tonight we are here to present the award to Brigadier General Dennis Lutz. He has been in public service nearly his entire adulthood, entire adult life. Dennis has served as captain in the U.S. Army Combat Engineers Battalion before retiring as a Brigadier General. In service he included a tour in Vietnam and contributed to combat engineer units globally. Dennis has continued to, sorry I'm a little, Dennis is very inspirational to many of us that are in this line of work. Dennis has continued with public service working with the State of Vermont Agency Natural Resources, reviewing and providing comments on large-scale projects and developments. In 1984, Dennis became the Public Works Director for the Town of Essex and has remained an integral part of the community in the public works profession for over 34 years. Dennis has devoted his entire professional career to the service of others through public works to improve quality of life for all. He is a supreme civil engineer and has a hand in everything from designing the town's sewer system and instituting the annual touch a truck event to the community. He is progressive on community outreach and insists that public works departments has a table at every town meeting to act with the public works department to see what's going on. He understands the importance of educating and engaging the community in the significance that the public works professionals have in their town. In recognition of this outstanding achievements and innovations for which others in the industry may benefit, and his dedication to service to the Public Works Department and our country, it is the pleasure of the New England Chapter to present the 2018 Outstanding Achievement Award to Brigadier General Dennis Lutz. Dennis, Lisa said that you are an inspiration to all of us. Thank you. We are so fortunate to have you as our Director of Public Works for so long. Thank you. Thank you, Dennis. Thank you. There we go. Okay, sorry. Dennis, I will add that you, having worked with you and observed you, you have the grace and intelligence to make a difficult job look very easy. And I was going, oh my God, that looks easy. Absolutely. Thank you. Fantastic. Thanks. Nice to see you get recognized by your regional team. I'd just like to make a few words. This is the first. I mean, I don't know if you've ever seen me come to a meeting with a piece of paper this small. No handouts? No handouts. No binders? No binders. Where are the other APJs? I really appreciate the APWA giving the award, but I also appreciate the fact that Lisa went to a graded training to get the award. Erin and Annie helped put it together, which is especially nice, given that the people that I work with all the time. A lot of recognition of what you do, I think, goes back to family. And I'm going to use family in a very broad, generic sense. Obviously, my wife, Carol, very important, very patient. I think looking to, when has this guy really been retired? But she's been along the road the whole way and back me up. And it's always easy sometimes to go home after meetings and find a warm, friendly atmosphere that says, hey, you can relax. Whatever happened today, it's a new day tomorrow. But there's another family. There's my military family. There's the Essex family. And the Essex family is large. It's the people. It's the guys I work with. It's the boards. And there's been many, many changes of board members and managers. Changes of managers. But along the way, everybody's been supportive. We don't always agree, but I don't expect that we always agree on things. What I would expect is that people would listen and then discuss and come to decisions. And you guys have always done that. It's really, it's been a pleasure to work. It makes my job easy. I think what I've learned over time is you can't make people happy. You can't make people happy. So the approach has to be do the right thing. Use your education. Use your training. Use your intellect to try to do the right thing. And when you do that, sometimes it comes out good. Sometimes it maybe it doesn't. But I've also taken the approach of never looking backward. There's always a tomorrow. And I think that my view of that is just keep working towards that tomorrow. There's three people that I wish could be here tonight. And I'm going to explain why. The first two were my parents. And they passed away 40 years ago. I was not exactly the perfect kid. I have an older brother who was, I suppose you would call the perfect kid. Because he fit the mold of where my parents thought things ought to go. I was never that way. My dad was a minister and there was many Sundays that I would find a way to go swimming or doing other things and never quite make it to church. And there was times in my career when in college I made the dean's list. But it wasn't the one that they give awards for. It's the one on the other end that says you really want to be an engineer. And my parents I think were patient through all this. I wonder when they did pass away since it's been a long time. Do they realize that I reached this point where I did am recognize for doing a good job. And so I wish they were here. They did a good job. The other one that's kind of funny. This is a good story and I'll kind of get to the end with this. I had a guidance counselor in high school who was a football coach. I was a runner and a swimmer. But he was a guidance counselor and he was a really nice guy and he was bright. And he was good. And he said, Dennis this is when I graduate. He said you can be successful in anything. But there's one thing you shouldn't go into. It's anything involving math. And believe it or not he was right because when I went in that dean's list it was that darn differential equations courses that I had to take before I got to the civil subjects that I really liked. So it almost brought me down to the point where I was going to be in the military in a different role as opposed to continuing with college. And then I look at this. I don't look at this award as an end of career award. I think of this as the world cup. I've completed a full game. The score is zero to zero. But there's extra time. So I look at it now. I'm going into extra time. And I've still got some goals I want to score. So I'll be there as long as everybody's patient. And I can do it. And Carol lets me keep working. Thank you again. We love you Dennis. Thank you for presenting that Lisa. Okay. We're going to move on now to our next item which is approval of extension of memorandum of agreement for consolidation of public works. And Greg. Yes. So we took the comments that the boards made the last time you saw this at the last joint meeting. We had the attorneys review it. Once again make some changes. Nothing huge. Hope you've had a chance to look at the track changes. Basically we removed the time frame. It was originally looking at five year fiscal years continuing this. We took that out and put in language to opt out in termination of the agreement. Otherwise it's in place until things are consolidated at the public works level. Those are basically the changes. I'm not sure if you captured everything all the comments and concerns that the board said last time but can try to answer any questions if you have any. Thank you Greg. I look like you captured all the ones that I recall we asked for but comments from the board questions. About it. Anybody? No. They got all the concerns that I had raised. So. Okay. We need to approve it right? Andy. I move that the select board approve amendment number one to the memorandum of agreement between the town of Essex and the village of Essex Junction regarding consolidation of public work services. Thank you Andy. Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion on approving this memorandum? Hearing none all those in favor signify saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Motion passes unanimously. Any further motion from the trustees about the public works agreement? I'll move. Go ahead. So moved. I'll second. Okay. Let me read the agreement. It is recommended that the board of trustees approve amendment number one to the memorandum of agreement between the town of Essex and village of Essex Junction reason the consolidation of public work services. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I'll do the next one. Okay. We are on to finalizing the goals for evaluating our unified manager, Evan, and let me, I'll let you take it Evan, but let me say where we left this last, last time as a bit of an explanation is that as part of the unified manager's contract we have an agreement between the two boards that we would assign some additional goals besides the regular management goals in addition to his normal duties to be performed and we would evaluate him and there would potentially be compensation for that at the end of his first contract year. And at that, and so we were to choose the board, the board, two boards as opposed to choose a number of goals that would be achievable. And we have whittled it down to, there was a subcommittee that looked into this and they whittled it down to a selection and it's our job tonight, the two boards to decide which, if any and all, if we want to, of the goals that we want to assign to Evan. And Evan, I'll let you, do you have anything to add to that? Other than the committee was Andrew Brown, Lori Newton, Irene Runner, and Michael Plinkman. And so I was more of the, it's in the packet, I would defer to the committee maybe if they wished, but the other topic was previous to that the boards had adopted smart goals as the primary driver of that. So they tried to put these into a framework of some accountability, et cetera. And they did try to meet, they met at least once, they tried to meet again to do some final work with this deadline, but with their very busy schedules, they couldn't meet a second time. So I would suggest maybe take a look at the eight, I believe there's eight potential goals and decide if you want to adopt all eight or some number or number of goals. And I think it's very manageable and that by my contract you're supposed to do an evaluation on my anniversary, which is at the end of February, which probably means you're going to want to do this in January or try the beginning and have it at the second meetings of January. Just give you a timeline. And then the committee talked about how to continue a timeline of doing this in a timely manner. There's anyone, Irene or Mike or Andrew, do you want to add anything to this? Any other stuff that you want to add insight about this? Other than we started with a much longer list than what you see here. I think Evan did a, personally I think Evan did a great job recapping. I have nothing new to offer. Okay. I will only observe that as Evan just mentioned, there's a lot going on. And I did eight goals. It seems to be quite a bit. And I think we had originally kicked around the idea of three, or we had, there was some suggestion of each board would select two and then would have one specific goal. But I would just, my own observation would be to try to narrow this list. Or I'll sort of open the floor to discuss about how we should proceed with this. But I would like to suggest that we might want to wrap this up tonight and not have it continue. If I could just make a suggestion. There are two on here that personally I think may get taken care of. Take it away. So six, I believe we're taking care of tonight. So we could probably cross that off the list and so it'll already be accomplished. Yep. Well done, Evan. For the record. Thank you. Number seven. My understanding is that this will likely happen contractually with the consultant. Yep. And so whether that's something that we should hold Evan responsible for versus it's a contract. Yep. Maybe that's another one that could just come off. So then we could window this down from what was eight to now being six. Yep. Agreed. And I would add that in looking at this, the village has a bike walk committee. And that the one of the missions of the bike walk committee is to, if you read goal number five, it's pretty much what goal number five is. And they do a good job in it. They're an ongoing committee. They apply for grants. They tell the village public works and community development office where we might be needing signs and pedestrian crossings and and they apply for grants and they. So I'm not really sure we need a duplicate in this direction. Go ahead. Well, the village bike walk committee is for the village. Right. They were to extend their responsibility out to the town that I would agree with you. Okay. So you're proposing you keep it in, but make it town wide? Well, that's a bigger conversation. It just, I agree with George that this is very well addressed in the village. So would it be difficult to extend the scope of the bike walk committee? We would have to add members from the town. That's a bit of a process. So perhaps keeping it on Evan's list for now with the future intention of giving that responsibility to an expanded bike walk committee in the future. But I'm not sure that we're not in a position today or in the very near future to expand that. So you're saying keep goal five? I would say keep it, but address it because if there's already a committee that's handling it really well, then we shouldn't just add it to Evan's list, in my opinion. I far-spoken if you want to go. I suspect confused by what you said. You said keep it, but then you said don't. I far-spoken. Keep it for now, but then this board perhaps should have a conversation, these boards, about expanding the scope of the village town, the village bike walk committee to include the town and include town members so that this work can be continued in the entirety of the town and then it wouldn't be on Evan's responsibilities list maybe next year. Depending on when we get around to that conversation, should we desire to have it. So you're saying keep it on a list of things to do, but don't make it one of the smart goals that need to be accomplished by January 1st. Is that what you're saying? That would work for me, too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's still an important thing to do? It's still an important thing to do. Right. Yeah. I also look at goal number eight. And we're sort of doing this. I mean, this is sort of in the overall work of what Evan and Greg are looking into right now. I think that development review is a big project because that involves a lot of the mechanics of the planning commissions and the development offices that have differences between the village and the town that might be too difficult to align them without doing other structural changes, but hiring, budget, capital plans. I don't know. It seems, Evan, do you think that you're sort of doing this, what number eight is talking about already? I am, which is fine. But I think what I've heard from the boards is, you want me to continue that. And I can certainly, and I will, and I have other roles and responsibilities, but I would come back to you with our progress. And it's really about the progress that's made in this and that it doesn't fall. You know, if you don't stay at it in what we do every day in both organizations, it becomes the third priority or the fifth or the sixth. And I think you're going to want me to keep this higher in that list and keep me and the department heads and the staff motivated to keep that ball rolling. So I think it's something that is worthwhile to keep on not only my radar screen, but your own. Perhaps it would be good to say, Instead of say work to streamline in the line, maybe it would be work towards streamlining in the lining because we're not expecting you to have this done. Are we right by January 1st of 2019, but rather working towards that process? Mike? Isn't Lauren taking a stab at the budget piece of this? A little piece of it. So why not structure number eight, kind of along the line of where you're going, but perhaps start with budget, keep the others on the list with the idea that it will be an ongoing perhaps a longer term. I don't see how any human being is going to pull Yeah, I don't think that's the intent. But rather get report by periodic reports and certainly by January 1st of where you are. My suggestion would be that we limit that one perhaps just to the budget piece and have that reporting date January with the idea that the others are going to follow. Just an idea. Andy? I don't agree with limiting the scope, but I do want, the second sentence says that the deliverable is updates. It doesn't necessarily say that any of these have to be completed by January 1st. So I would rather not push scope away if there are pieces of it that can be done between now and the end of the year. And again, the deliverable is an update. It's not a completion. I prefer to keep all of the scope in consideration. I just wonder if we want to adjust our timeline at all because five months is not a lot of time. And I don't know how you feel about having five months now to do these goals now that they've been formalized or should we make it an entire year or should we make it just more time than five months? I just think that you understand that the five months is the five months and you've been here just about five months. Not exactly with clear goals, but with direction given in many forms. So I think some of these things we've already been working on, it's a question of they've now been prioritized as goals and with some deliverables. As you mentioned, Lauren is already starting that process, but it's far from complete. She will tell you in about five or ten minutes how far from complete it really is. It's really right now only the public works and highway departments, but we're using them as a model because you start with something and it has a foundation and then you could start moving it out into departments and others and taking bites of that apple instead of trying to swallow it whole and so these organizations and both of them are going through a lot of change. So I'm comfortable with this as long as the board is comfortable with understanding that a lot of this is work in progress that will continue year after year and some will end and some will have to continue because it's just not anything that can be done in 12 months or 24. Mike? Just to clarify, I appreciated Andy's comment, but just to make sure that I was clear, I certainly had no intention of eliminating any of those. My suggestion was to work on one of them as a start given the short timeframe and whatever the opinion is around that I'll accept, but I just wanted to make sure that that's clear. Okay. Everyone prioritize the budgeting but keep the others. I think because we're taking a stab at it now and Lauren's going to be presenting it, I just figured that that would be a good place to start. Just to be clear, the village is working on its capital plan. The town is always working on its capital plan. One of the things we're looking at is how to maybe co-join process and policy and lists of things and communicating of what's going on. So there's a whole multitude of things and I'm happy to be working on that. It's very important that individually into the town and the village we're talking amongst our departments, it is also important that the town and the village organizations are talking to each other as well in their planning, in their budgeting, in their hiring. We're constantly talking about who we hire, what we hire, where we're going to recruit, can we look at a position differently, what do we need today and what do we look at in the future? Both together. So it's something that goes on but it's not codified in any process yet. You're saying that they're all sort of moving forward at the same time. But they're not codified. So we have to put them into policy and process too as we discuss it and bring it to the boards. What I'm saying is that you're looking to streamline and align all these items that are touched. Yep. Okay. If I could, let me just look at one or two more. I'm looking at... So we're going to keep eight then, as is, before we move on? Okay. Andy, do you have something? I was going to move on to a different goal if we're ready. Let's do that. I was looking at goal number two. I was just wondering if there's any thoughts about how that is measurable. M is measurable in the SMART. Yeah, so I know that folks in the community. My understanding of this was a community strategy done or not. So the thing, the measuring, is that develop a community strategy with a goal of increasing residents' hearing or understanding of the message. So what is the strategy? Has that been developed? And if it has, it's happened. If it has, then it hasn't been met. So if I could expand on that, the strategy would develop measures based on how it's implemented. So the measure for Evan is, did he make a plan? Right. Okay. Yes. That's my understanding. If anyone else from the committee feels otherwise, let me know. I think that was clear. Anyone else? I just had just another observation about goal number four. My only thought about this is this involves another party over whom we have no control. It doesn't mean that Essex Westford School District doesn't want to be friendly with us, but they may not necessarily have the time or the resources or the capacity. So you'd be asking Evan to do something which may not be within his power to do. I'm a little concerned about putting that as a goal. Other than he could provide a list of phone calls and emails he sent that didn't get responded to, but I'm not really sure that that's my own thought about this as a goal. Yeah, I was kind of surprised to see that on there as a goal, although I think it's important that we do work with them on affordable housing, for example, as I mentioned before, and probably the space study that's going to be kicked off might want to touch base with them, too. But I don't know if we need a liaison. I mean, I'm just thinking that come January, we're going to sit at this table or we're going to sit at the other table in Lincoln Hall and we're going to go say, okay, goal number one, goal number two, goal number two. How did you do? Did you achieve it? Did you succeed? And what are we going to look at? How are we going to say, yes, Evan achieved this goal. And so that's how I'm looking at each one of these. And this particular one looks like, I'm not really sure how we would assess this. I'm not sure Howard what the next steps are. Once we actually get to the evaluation process, do we give a grade on a scale of one to five? So if, for example, goal four, if Evan's best efforts aren't answered and nothing happens, and I would say that's just a neutral thing that we don't grade because it didn't happen. We might just worry about that when we get there. Okay. And if they don't want to play, then they don't want to play. Which is probably not going to happen. So are you saying keep that as a goal? Yeah. Andy? I'm not in favor of it because it's not clear to me what the actual, what the end is. What's the purpose? You know, if, you know, he calls up the chair of the school board and he says, well, sure we could do that, but why, what's the answer to why? I think it's, it's, I think we need to have more meat to it before we make it a critical goal for our limited resources. So I'm, I would not, I mean... Well, let's, what's a good relationship? That's kind of subjective to say we have a good relationship with each other. Let's hear from the subcommittee. Yeah. Maybe they have something they could fill in for us. I'm seeing a progress report here being required and that's all that we're asking of Evan for this goal to be on this list. And if he lists five phone calls he made or 10 emails he sent or three meetings he had, to me that's progress. And then we can always revisit this in just five months and decide if we want you to continue to talk to the schools or try to talk to the schools or maybe by then we have more items than just the ones you were going forward with to talk to them about. And I think over time we'll see more reasons to talk to them rather than fewer. But I see a progress report within this goal so to me that's not definitive. It just lets Evan flex and say what he's done and what he hasn't done and what he needs from us. Is this particular goal a way of indicating a priority at our board? Absolutely. That's another way to look at it. Is it a priority? I mean, we're going to need them in certain discussions. We are going to need them at our board and we don't have a relationship with them right now. Period. We just wave at each other. So why not? Well, I'm just, what exact, I don't mean that we don't want to have a good relationship with them but what, like for example, what happens? Well, so Max referred to the upcoming housing work we're going to do. We really want them at the table for that. We have a future, we heard from Representative Giambattista at a previous meeting that the voting for school board members is going to be changing next year and the year after. So we want to make sure that we're all together in having a conversation about that. I think this would be a good way to establish formal relations now so that when we get to those conversations, we're ready. Okay. Andrew? I think another tangible one where educational drive was redesigned and my understanding is it was redesigned without any input from village staff. As a municipality who maintains, paves, plows, those kinds of things, it seems like that would be a great opportunity to revisit and have a relationship of if you want to redesign the road, can you just talk to us about it to make sure that our plows will fit? Those kinds of things. And Evan, you had a comment too? Not to be too callous, but their budget is $75 million? Close. Of all of our taxpayers' money, I think we should be communicating together what's going on. I was just at a meeting today. Believe it or not, we're having a hard time filling public works jobs and other jobs in this area, not just Essex, but in other areas. And, you know, not everybody goes to college, not everyone goes to Ivy League, not everybody goes there. And our schools, both at high school level, technical college and others, providing skill sets for jobs that we need to fill in this area. And one of them is public works. Police officers is another. So I wouldn't mind a conversation with the schools as to how we can work together. We have land issues together. We have traffic issues together. They have a busing plan that they keep saying that they are working on that is going to change the village more so than the town, because the town already has a lot of busing, but they can't find bus drivers. And I think that's good. And we have four months. You cannot go through this section of Main Street at 7.30 in the morning because of the traffic going to the high school. And people start doing all kinds of interesting maneuvers, only to find themselves blocked. So I think if I get it, it's not really put into a really obtainable goal. But I think we have a lot of discussion topics, and the better we start having that one-on-ones relationship with the executive director and others, and getting to understand where they're going and what we need, the better. It's like we're a number of years ago talking about building a relationship with the schools because of the drug issues there. Opioids is another one. We have a cop last I knew in the schools all day long. So just the fact that one of our people has a presence at that school and maybe other schools, I don't see why we're not already much more connected. So I think this is way overdue. I'm not saying we shouldn't talk to the schools. I'm just saying that at the beginning of this discussion, we said we want to will this down to three to five and we're at six. And so if I'm looking at things that I want to put on at this place and measure them against in February, if we're going to keep number four on, what other ones are we going to take off? I guess that's where I'm trying to rank them in my own mind. That one would fall lower on a measurable thing. I agree that it's a great thing to have. Yeah, no one's saying it's not a good thing. I agree. I don't have a problem with that, but I'm just saying that should be going on anyway. I thought we were taking off five as a, we're not keeping it on the goals list. It's going to be some, it's going to be one of those things that in the future year we'll have as a goal for Evan. But one of the things that we need to do as a board is talk about whether we were, whether we would want the village bike walk committee to be beyond just a village. All right. So we're going to be taking off five. We're going to be taking off five. We're going to be taking off five. We're going to be taking off five. We're going to be taking off five. All right. So there we are going to come. Okay. That was my impression though. So, okay. Elaine? No, Elaine. She's very eloquent about that. It was more than we could handle now to do involve the town. Um, I'm curious about number three. When I read number three, I feel like that is a service that Evan provides all the time anyway. And it didn't feel like it rises to the level of a goal. It feels like a standard of practice. And it would be regardless of whatever committee it is. Yeah. So I don't know that three should be a goal. Yeah. I didn't see it as a goal either, but rather something that we do working together as a process. So I think would it be helpful if, if we just let maybe start at the top of the list and go down one, two, three, four, et cetera, and just say in out and then wrap it up. You want to do that? Let me give that a shot. See where we see what happens. See where we can find agreement and where we don't. So goal number one, in or out. What's the, what's the, what's the general? Start with Andy. What are you thinking? Goal one. Good. Thumbs up. Irene. Sure. Okay. Max. Oh yeah. For sure. Thumbs up. Goal one. Boom. Goal two. Develop a community strategy to increase the number of residents hearing and understanding our message. No. Thumbs down. Relative to importance. Thumbs up. Thumbs down. Okay. Thumbs up. Yeah. I think, I think communication is important. Okay. I'll give it a thumbs up. I'll give it a thumbs up. Mike. Up. Up. Okay. That's him. Okay. One and two so far. Okay. One and two so far. Goal number three. Okay. Go. What? This is kind of fun. So. So. Okay. Wait a second. Okay. I think we just have discussion. I think we just, we can, I think if we get, if we get to the point of, I just wanted to get a sense of like what, what is everyone thinking? And then we can go back and formally, and formally incorporate it. So, so goal. Let me see. Let me go to ask again. Goal number three. What was our, okay. Thumb one. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Oh wow. Oh wow. So we need some discussion. Some discussion. We'll come back to that one. Okay. We'll come back to number three. Do you want to write this? Do you have a pen? I got it. Okay. Goal number four. Goal number four. The school district goal. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to give it a thumbs down. Okay. But it's got a thumbs. It's, we're up voted. Okay. Okay. So the goal number four is staying in. Okay. Goal number five. Develop a comprehensive village town plan and policies address pedestrian safety. We're going to, what that's not going to be a goal, but we want the town need you, the select board needs to know whether you want this done or not. The village has been doing this for a while, but you might want to know about this. Okay. Goal number six. We've done that already. So that's not a goal. Goal number seven. The select board is doing that one. And goal number eight. I'm a little confused to where that is. It's sort of like goal number one, but not exactly is that we're keeping that in. Thumbs up. Well, it's a little different. It's a little different than one. It's a little different. Yeah. We're just working on things we're already doing. And I think the other is ones that we haven't done yet. All right. That's what eight is. Once we haven't done yet. So I'm, I'm. So we're up with that. We're generally up. Okay. I think we've got enough thumbs up that that's staying in there. So the one that's debatable. I hope someone was writing all these down. We have one, two, three and eight. He's the only one we still need. So three, we need to go back over that. And thoughts from the, from my recollection of our committee's discussion. I got to make sure I'm on the right number here. The point of three is that it's something we want to see continue to happen. And in many ways is an expectation of Evan's job, but it's something we want to ensure is continuing to happen. And so it's a, it's a goal that we want to make sure that this does not discontinue. Okay. And the metrics for that. That would probably, that's a good question. I think that could probably be strengthened. But as to, and maybe as Elaine was talking about before with, how would we actually evaluate this? Maybe it's, how do we feel? Do we feel that we had the staff support that we needed in order to do the work that we wanted to do? So to my way of thinking that last sentence is really the crux of the whole thing. The boards are ultimately responsible for discussing governance. The goal of the managers to facilitate the process and provide the needed resources. It would seem to me that the people working on the governance are going to be in the best position to tell us whether that goal has been met or not. Sure. I mean, they're, they're on the front lines. So whether it won't be all of us, but it will be that committee that's working on governance. To my way of thinking that's about as measurable as you're going to get that one because of the fact that it's a little bit nebulous to begin with. I think we're all in agreement. It's part of his job description. But I think the importance that we've attached to the governance issue makes it a reasonable goal. Evan? What are your thoughts on that one? It's a little bit scary. I look kind of nebulous. You guys are having a great discussion. You go at it. I'm going to change my vote because I think this sounds more like a select board and trustee goal than a town manager. Number three. This is our problem, not his. I mean, we've had issues with even being able to schedule meetings. And if we can't use that as an excuse for him to, you know, if none of us are available to have a meeting, it's not Evan's fault. So I'm, you know, that that's just an example, but I'm willing to change my vote on this one. Taking it off. Okay. I don't know. I'm just a bystander. Well, you defended it very eloquently, Mike. So you almost persuaded me, but I still think I'm going to, it sounds, it's got a little bit too much of a flavor of what the manager should be doing anyway for me. But I appreciate your words. Sure. Andrew. I would like to keep it on, but I'm happy to lose out on this. Okay. I'm not happy to, but I'll accept that I lose out on it. Yeah, it's better. Okay. So where are we? Okay. So if we, if we agree that three is off, then we agree to go one, two, four, and eight. Does that agree with everybody? Okay. Okay. Three and five are select board. Five is select board. Three is select board village board. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And six is done. Should we even get so. We should probably. Yeah. So we need to have a motion from both boards. I'll give it a go. Andy, go for it if you like. All right. I move that the select board, the select board, I don't know, what's the right word here? Assign. Assign. I would sign these goals. Yeah. Assigning these four goals one, two, four, and eight from the smart goals for unified manager list. Okay. June 21, 2018. Thank you. Any further discussion about what was the word? Assigning. Assigning these four goals for the, for Evan. Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Passes. Evan. I'd be excused. I have a lot of work to do. All right. And I think we probably need to learn from this year and do a little bit different next year. Yeah. Yeah. We were a little overly ambitious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were a little overly ambitious, I think, and didn't allow ourselves enough time to provide a little bit more time, I think, than that seems to me. But sleep well tonight, Evan. Sleep well. All right. So. Have a great staff. We'll move on to Business Island 5D, which is, we'll get an update on how we're, Evan's doing on goal number eight, which is discussion of budget process and alignment. Take it along, Lauren. Okay. So we're working on aligning our budgets and the first thing we are going to do is get the foundation documents the same. And Sarah is working on that so that our department heads get similar forms to fill out and that we give them out at the same time and get that aligned between the two entities. So that's the first thing that we're doing. And then we decided to start with public works because they're already being combined. So Dennis and I sat down and talked about the different line items and what would be the best title, what would be the best thing to put into that line item. And during that discussion, we named some line items and we aligned some items. But we also came across the fact that in the village and the town, we do things very differently, whereas in the town, a lot of the buildings are taken care of out of the buildings department, whereas in the village, each department takes care of their own building. So we thought that it would be a good idea to change the village so that we had a buildings department in the village that would take care of the buildings for the other departments. So that was the first step is to get that stuff out of the other departments and also out of the public works department put it into a buildings department. In the village, we're going to turn, we'd like to turn the Lincoln Hall budget into a buildings department. What do you mean buildings? I'm sorry to interrupt. Buildings, you mean not like building permits, you're talking the structures? Buildings, like maintenance of buildings, somebody taking care of buildings. And it's really the general fund, those buildings that belong to the general fund where the wastewater treatment facility would still take care of its pumps and things like that, but buildings might be taken care of, you know, like it's an admin building, that sort of thing would come in under these buildings. All that, that's problematic because it's, we'll have to talk about that. So that was the idea and then expand the buildings budget in the town to include maintenance of all town buildings. So we've got kind of an equal thing on both sides. And then hire a part-time building superintendent to take care of buildings so that we don't have librarians trying to fix sewer leaks and just all kinds of crazy people doing not what their job is but, you know, having to take care of the building. So that was the next piece of that. And then in the town, the finance department picks up all of the charges for property and liability insurance and workers comp. And in the village, that's all split out by department. We're not sure the advantage of that splitting out, but it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. So if we could align that so that there is a finance department in the village as well as in the town that has the same items in it, then we're getting more comparable and it would be easier to handle that way. And then we would like to streamline the budget process, review process in both entities. So we would like the boards to set their goals early on in the process so that we present you with a budget that you will be able to accept. We would like to tell you those things that we're going to change up ahead. You know, like if we need a police officer or if we need a building supervisor so that you have that coming in and know that those are the priorities for that year and whatever your priorities are too. And shorten the budget process for the town. The village does it all in one day and try to shorten it up a little bit in the town. So that you're not meeting every week during January. And so the goals were to have the same item titles, have the account numbers for each title the same, have the same items in the same accounts, and make everything simpler for the officials. Those are our goals. Would that be to be ready for FY 20? Yes, and so that's why we've kind of limited it to public works. I mean, it's a lot for you to absorb and handle. I gave you the printout of the sheet of things that we're proposing to change. And there's a lot. So we're going to have line items that were $800,000 yesterday and they're going to be $2,000 today because of all the things moving around. So it's a lot to... You don't need to really keep good log of that because come village meeting or town meeting, we're going to need to explain that clearly because they're going to see those big numbers change a little or a little change, whatever, and we need to be able to articulate that very clearly. So that's why we thought we'd stick with public works, streets, highways, public works. And then the buildings kind of comes off of that and the finance. Lauren, the only thing, this seems like it's got several different phases. You're talking about the accounting and the line item titles doing that now in preparation of the upcoming budget that we're going to be looking at in January or in December. But things like expanding the building's budget and creating a finance department, there's not money in the budget this year to do that. So those are things that you're going to recommend that we do in the upcoming budget. No, it's not really more money. It will be taking those costs out of departments and putting them into a finance department. So for the budget as a whole, there won't be that much change. Does just the usual increases for the insurances? Okay, but you said you wanted to hire a building. That one will cost money. That one will cost money. But that would be a proposal for the upcoming budget. That would be effective July 1 the following year as one of the priorities of a staff saying we have 17, I think we have over 17 structures. Currently we ask the assistant manager to take care of this building and or the IT director. Was it yesterday you were up on the roof with the IT director with the roofer with a gun with clock because we have a leak. No offense, he's a nice man. I don't think he knows anything about roofing any more than I know anything about roofing. But he's got experience now. He knows how to find those holes now. And no offense, I don't ask much of my library directors to deal with sewer problems. See, that's different than the village we asked. Yes, you're right. And then again, all of this, not only do we spend a lot of time of our department heads and assistant managers waiting around for contractors and trying to figure out what we need, what we're doing. We also want to have somebody who can centralize our contracts. We have 17 buildings, we have 17 HVAC systems. We have 17 roofs. We have 17, I don't know how many electricians we use, at least three different electricians in our different buildings. We want to standardize our contracts, know who we're dealing with, get our warranties in line. The roof, guess what? Don't know if our roof is under warranty because certain issues may have occurred that violated the warranty. Like caulking on the roof perhaps. Like removing snow that may have contributed to the leak. Which we don't agree to, but that's what their claim is. Except we said, who went up there? Greg. By the way, we also don't want employees up in our roofs and in certain places that aren't trained. You might get better pricing too. You certainly get better control over what is occurring. Again, I don't ask people that don't have the expertise. If a guy comes in and tells you, hey, your furnace needs this $2,000 worth of stuff, you need heat. Okay, do it. Well, did you get a good price? Did you really need it? I don't know, but they need heat. So at least we're looking in the idea that someone we would bring in would have that responsibility. But that's for the budget talks, but that's the idea. And then because the buildings would have its own budget, this person would then know what they have to spend. By the way, when you go into the budget and you say, how much do we spend on our buildings? Don't know. It's in 17 different areas. I can't tell you from the budget what we spend on our liability insurance because it's in 17 different areas. Mike, did you have a question? I can speak from a little bit of experience on this particular subject. There's two things that subcontractors enjoy and will usually jump through a wall for you if you can practice them. Number one is a clear scope of work and the other is a prompt payment. There is nobody that will ignore those two things. So as we develop this go to list, I would just suggest that we keep those in mind but I also wouldn't short change how many electricians you have or how many roofers you have because I'm pretty sure that in the middle of July you're not going to get a roofer who's going to drop what he's doing to come and see you either that day or maybe even the next day or maybe even the next day after that if he's got a roof open. We understand. One man's opinion. So can I just ask some questions about the building line item? So am I recalling correctly we started the Lincoln Hall Fund when we needed lists to come in and take care of the historic restoration or we started a fund for Lincoln Hall. Right, but we took money out of the Lincoln Hall and it's always been a Lincoln Hall budget just to pay for maintenance heat upkeep of Lincoln Hall. So that new building, it's called Building Maintenance and it's not just Lincoln Hall, it's Lincoln Hall, it's the library and it will probably be Park Street School. Those are major renovation things or major problems that can't go into the budget that aren't normal maintenance. Right, so that's my question. I thought that that budget was for our historic buildings, which we had three. So we're converting that to a building's budget for... That's not included. That's a special fund. That building's maintenance is a special fund. It's not part of the general fund. The Lincoln Hall budget is part of the general fund and it pays for the heat and the electric and the normal maintenance cleaning, that kind of thing. So we still have a separate fund for those three historic buildings? We do. Does the town have a similar budget line item for historic structures of any kind? They have some money in capital for like the Memorial Hall and the library. They're doing the maintenance in the library. So are those building's budgets going to be aligned? The maintenance part of it, but not the capital part of it. Not the capital. Right now. This is just the general fund maintenance pieces. If I can understand it correctly, for example, you're going to say here's how much the Brownell Library spent on maintenance this last year and we're going to take approximately that amount of money and move it into this new budget. So my thought is to have a line item that says maintenance and then have sub-line items, which we would all see, but for the budget that we put in the paper or in the annual report, it would be rolled into one. But then we would have that information available. So you're expanding one budget, which always takes our breath away because we don't like to see things expand budgets. They'll always be shrinking, but you're contracting other budgets. Correct. So there'll be no net. Except for the new position. The new position is a different issue. The salary increase, sir. Right. That would be out of the town general fund. It would be paid for by both, I think, by both municipalities. That salary. I mean, that's debatable. I don't know. But the follow-up question would be, is part-time enough? Should it be a full-time building person? Evan addressed that. Evan. Oh, I didn't know if you wanted me to. Well, yeah, we can answer that question later. Yeah. My first inclination is to try to start it as part-time to get into how much and see it and make sure that we have enough hours. I would almost be convinced that ultimately it might be full-time if it were both communities' buildings. But I like to start small, see what could be done. It's all, you know, he left already. Dennis is like, can the guy, can the person plow? I don't know. I've never, Evan. That's not a job description. If he could plow, I'm in. And it might not be a hate. So you might see, you know, it start as, or the idea of it starting as a part-time position and maybe wouldn't be surprised that over time you might start seeing, you know, mission creep, you know, like, we had someone just like this in my other job and he was great. He did a bunch of things for us, the library, public works. Occasionally he went over even to the fire district if they needed something, and then he started plowing our lot. He never plowed our lot before. Our police department was with us in a different side of the building and our public works, you know, we got him a pickup truck, put a plow on it, and we used to have to bring a public works street plow to come in and do our lots, and it was inefficient. And when we said, hey, if we give him a, and he did ours, the library's lot, the fire department's lot, our transportation lot, which was Metro, and public works got to deal with streets. And that's what we did. And everybody was happy. By the way, the library was a district, fire district was a district, and all that, but we worked it out and we traded services all the time. Andy? So there's a comment in here that we're going to change, potentially change the select board's budget review process. And I know I don't want to have the discussion now because it's just a select board discussion, but I assume we will have that discussion before we start. Yeah, yeah, we should. When we do the goal setting for what we want to see in the budget, that would be a good time to have that discussion too. So we're not just going to be handed, this is the new process, we'll discuss it. They can make a recommendation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's up to us to save that. And, you know, continuous improvement, no matter if we think ours is better, maybe we can probably improve it. So it's worth looking at, I think. Ari, did you have a hand up? I do. While we have the trustees here, I'd like to get a sense of what the full day for a budget review is. Is it a four-hour day? Is it a 12-hour day? Does it vary all over the map, or is it pretty standard? No, it's pretty standard, guys. Do you want to describe the under? The better part of a day. We'll have department heads come in. Weekday, right? It's a weekday. We all take a day off of work. We talk about the budget. We see the budget that's presented to us from the department heads. In advance, we've given our goals as to what we'd like to see. And then the results from staff's work is presented and discussed. It's also a general time where we talk with department heads in general about how things are going. So we could probably improve or streamline the process in the sense that we could cut those conversations out, but personally, I find that incredibly valuable. But it seems like a very straightforward, easy to manage day. We start out with an hour, hour and a half with the manager and with Lauren. And then each department head comes in, like a half-hour, 45-minute increments. And sometimes they bring, like the library usually brings their board or some of them. And some department heads stay for multiple reports. And they're about half an hour, 45 minutes each. We're usually done by four. We have lunch. Yeah, we always, every year we have a different, excellent S6, S6 Junction restaurant caterer. That's right. Well, it's not really that much different. I mean, we have, we just spread it out over several days, but in smaller increments of time. But when you combine them together, it might not be much different than what you're doing. I like the totality of speaking to each department head on the same day. And because conversations with one department head might help us remember for the subsequent. And we also, we don't spend, we don't go line by line. We just talk about increases and decreases and goals and troubleshooting when there's a problem. You talk about goals beforehand, right? Before they put the question. Well, making sure that each department's budget meets our goals. And then we take the long view that the department head is doing what we're asking. And then we just talk about the issues or the increases and decreases. The downside for the select-oriented thing is the budget that we get is huge. And to read it all and be ready for that one day is a major task. And we're able to then sort of break it up into over time. And not have to read the whole thing at one sitting, but rather break it up. And that, at least for me, that works pretty well. Don't even try to do that reading. You should see a wastewater treatment plant budget. But I'm not saying it's not worth looking at, though, if it's a better way. Breaking it into two half-days, or one day and a half-day or something, as opposed to taking up a week's worth of evenings. And do you have trouble getting trustees to take a day off during the week? We plan it well in advance. We usually plan it like October. We could actually probably do it even well before that when we set up the meeting schedule for the whole year. We could probably put that on there, too. I'm curious how the public would feel about us doing things on a weekday when many of them are working, have commutes. Whereas I think our budget process in the evenings is a little more conducive to people showing up. My other concern about compressing the time we're spending on the budget is, at last, look at your budget. It was around $4 million for the village. Is that correct? Well, it's $4 million for the village. And then add in, I don't know what our wastewater, what the water treatment plant budget is. Lauren, typically. I think it's $1.8 million. Yeah, it's like $2 million. So it's more like a $6 million. And then the water budget is $3 million. We do water, sewer. We do them all at the same time. All those at the same time. So all together. Is it up around $8 million? It's up in the $8 million. The only thing I would say to comment about, I understand what the public, but we do this, and then we have public hearings. So this is us constructing the budget that we are going to, I mean, it's not we're excluding the public from the process, but this is us constructing the budget that we're going to then present as a draft to the public. You know, having, and we've occasionally had members of the public come in, but it's sort of at a more raw stage that I generally feel the public isn't, you know, there's not a lot of input at that point. It's mostly like just the inside discussion of why they're doing it. But we then take this budget and then we have several public hearings and we put the whole thing back out there. Have you gotten negative feedback from the public because of doing it in one day during a week? I'm not remembering a real high public turnout. Where do we get zero? That's my point. What we say to people is, if you want something come to us during the budget season, so if we're going to keep sending that message and we have meetings, we're really encouraging. And I'm also looking at, if we're looking at things that are on par, if you've got a $4 million operating budget for general fund things in the village and we've got a $14 million budget, those numbers alone tell me as do the number of departments that each board is considering that the select word should be having multiple days of similar discussions. Which I think we do have multiple days of similar discussions. I think it's really important to make sure that we have as many different, we're just spreading it out because we have so many more departments and so much more money to consider. So I don't think that saying because the village does it in one day, the select word could do it in two, I have a huge problem with that. I would rather spread it out and make sure that our conversations are thoughtful because we're dealing with it in a way that we can touch with ourselves and figure this out. But it makes sense to always look at the way we've been doing things and say can you do it better and we ought to look at it. But we may not change, but we ought to at least look at it. Anything else? I just want to say we wanted you to know what we were thinking about. That's big. We greatly appreciate that. The finance and stuff, every day somebody asks, almost every day, question, okay, where does this go? How much money do I have for this? And it's a fun thing, I guess for Lauren and her staff. Well, you know, it starts finding is it this, is it that, is it and be able to just standardize it for ourselves. It'll be, it's going to be a lot of work. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. I don't think the department heads are going to like it. They're going to do it because it needs to get done and we need to get it. But when it gets done and it gets done right and done well, it becomes easier and easier to be able to find things and with that finding, you're like, we spend what? Wait, wait. We spent. You can, once you can get your hands around something then you can put out RFPs, you can put out things and go get pricing and you say, wait a minute, we spend $200,000 on fuel. Shouldn't we be getting a better price than that? Or something like that? Sure. Thank you. Anything else before we move on? Very good, Chaplain. Thank you. Looking good. Okay, then why don't we move on to 5E and Evan, that's a regional revised town of village or chart? Sure. In your packets is a idea that I have I have currently 18 people that report to me. 18 department heads, varying people, libraries and alignment, consolidate to plan commission meetings, which are capital planning, budgeting regional issues, et cetera. And so everybody would like five minutes of my time and I'd like to give them five minutes if it were only five minutes. Most of my staff could laugh because when I ask them for five minutes, they know it's not five minutes. And so I was looking at ways to be able to give the departments their time and be able to keep myself sane and be able to get to goals and make sure that we're all rowing in the same direction. And one of the things that occurs, like we found out when you try to do meetings with four people, try to get four people scheduled when they work out, and so you're trying and you're just trying to get people together and sometimes you're trying to get a message out. And that message tries to get out to 18 people and it's very unwieldy. And so we were talking about Spana control and sat down with Greg and Lauren what departments make sense to go under but through an assistant manager. We can keep an eye on priorities by splitting up the work but the three of us and others coming back together on a weekly, you know, every two weeks going, okay, what's going on in the departments? What's the message? How are we doing? How are you doing? Do you have any issues? And then ultimately as it happens almost inevitably something pops up that comes right up to me because it's like, oh by the way I spoke to Greg, we have Lauren and we have this issue and it's a policy decision and it's going to have ramifications what do you think, Evan? And then we figure out a policy, a plan and come to our elected boards. Usually because something like that it's going to be some we're going to have to let you all know and you make a decision too but first we have to figure it out and then get to you. So that's kind of the plan that you see before you go. I wanted you to see it, I wanted some comments on it. I've looked into some research of what the charters say I've even talked to quite a village attorney and it's doable it's something that depends on and its language and some of its language number 11 in the village manager section it's a little bit funny but she's like if you want to try it and you think in the board is of opinion yeah, it's permissible under the charter, the town charter is relatively yaggle you have the authority to organize your staff as you see fit discussion because ultimately if we are going to continue alignment as it sounds like we are going to continue to try to do governance and merger these are things that are going to help and Lauren is also here and Greg here, they were in the meetings you can ask any of us what we think we know welcome back from vacation I think it's going to help our workflow I think it's going to help our department have its focus I think it's going to help our employees No it's speaking for myself, it will be helpful I took the deposition about a year ago I don't have 17 people reporting to me but it's a whole bunch of people coming in and all different things and I kind of filter stuff up to Evan as need be but it would help me to have some focus in terms of who am I reporting who is directly reporting to me and someone comes to me I think it will be helpful across the organization just to have, as Evan said, span of control An issue in one recreation department is not going to be unique I don't think and therefore if you are going to change a policy in one you might as well look at changing the policy in both and it's easier when you have that working relationship and a schedule from which to deal with then trying to keep finding people about them it's a thought Well I mean personally I think we need to be supportive of you internally making the kind of changes and moving things around that work for you in order to manage both governments I mean I just generally have some broad questions but if I can just digress you because I had raised an issue with the village charter I think it's a big deal The village charter when it outlines the villagers the managers responsibilities says in my reading of it is the manager can delegate his or her authority to manage supervise village staff to another village employee that is that might be a little problematic assigning someone who is not a village employee to supervise village staff I wasn't sure and we're not talking about direct supervision of a village association so as I said I didn't think it would be that problematic but I thought it was something we need to consider because we don't want to organize yourself and then find out that we're doing something that someone can object to one question I have why you have I can see police fire human resources and the deputy town manager reporting directly to you but why did IT rise to the significance that it reports directly to you and not to the deputy town manager or someone else I just had a curiosity Interesting so when we were doing this we were trying to equalize but it was a lot of public safety stuff is confidential and really just stays you know as I've told you before sometimes I just get a call and say you might see a helicopter we're going to be over on the street because someone's not someone's not going to make it so or something like that I don't get addresses but things like that or we have this thing going on so I get that public safety stays with me so we sat down with a bunch of things and we wanted we started doing some conversations about the ones that are aligning the ones that are yet to be aligned and the ones that are aligned and we both all want I figure a lot of IT work has decisions that have a lot of workflow in it not just something you stick with the one person so I'll give you a for instance we have tons of different softwares everybody wants a newer version of their software everybody and sometimes the software crosses departments and if you change one you have to change the other and somebody has to play referee and a lot of it's expensive that's why you have HR you still it reports to me but HR is a group effort and it works with the departments too because they have to tell us what they need and they work through HR but a lot of the policies the employee manuals the union contracts all that flows through HR flows through finance flows through the manager and I end up getting all the grievances or try to avoid grievances I kept that for myself into the manager position and how many departments total is it 18 I believe it's 18 so that would be really a pretty big span and I keep getting Charles and Charlie the fire chief's fixer I keep doing it and and it's daunting I really would love to get out to the libraries and I still will but I just it's just give you an opportunity to do that have you I know that in organizations when management is considering reorganization the chain of command you don't actually ask you don't need to go out and ask but would it be helpful if you ask feedback from department heads and said here's what we're thinking what do you think of this or do you not want to know that do you not want to do that I'm sorry to put you on the spot I already did it I showed them this long before I showed it to anybody this is what I'm thinking do you have any comments and it got changed a bit we made the wastewater treatment plan under this plan but they understood what we're trying to do they all still would love that five minutes with me and I'd love to give them that five minutes but I'll be working on my goals I'll be working on meeting with the school district but I brought it to them and most of them who would give me any comment think it's a good idea I'd throw it out I don't know if anybody's spoken to you or to Greg we used to have a it was director of administrative services and we had a bunch of departments under him under Doug and then that left and became really flat again so for me it makes sense to be able to break it up this way and it's a great opportunity for Craig I will give you one thing that also is not reflected in here so there's eighteen department heads there's nine of you that I am responsible to sometimes there might be ten different people that I'm responsible for that sometimes all you guys want is five minutes um and so that pulls me away too so I'm here for you and I'm here for the communities um and so being able to disperse some of the day to day answers and questions and I don't want to be the roadblock I don't want issues waiting for me to get to my emails or that five minutes or return a phone call it could be days two days these guys will tell you I hate being a day and a half behind on my emails but today I was in meetings all day I had a couple of evaluations I met with the chair and the village president I went to an association and I came back and I answered a few emails today's Wednesday that was my day it's not always that busy but it can be and I don't want to give my departments less I've got two quick things and one I think George is what you are kind of getting towards with the with the village department being with the village departments being under one union or association being supervised by someone who's not is that what you were talking about in terms of making sure that that's allowable I think what I'm saying is that the charter says the manager can delegate authority to manage to someone else but that someone else has to be a village employee and so I'm a little it's a it's a little concerning to say the manager can delegate manager authority over village staff to someone who's not village staff but Claudine and I thought that that's not so it's not so problematic for me if if if if Evan was appointing a town person to directly supervise someone who's in the village association but village association staff are still going to be reporting to their traditional department head this is really department head this is an organization of department heads it's not really an organization of general staff so I think we're kind of maybe a comfortable step removed but nevertheless I did want to raise the issue because it was something that popped out at me looking at the village charter and I wasn't even looking for it, I was looking for something else and I said whoa, wait a second thank you for the reminder that this is only department heads this is not any more than that even though you've said it about a dozen times or so already sorry about losing that my only other thing is what I've seen other communities do and this is only feedback please what I've seen some communities do is have those departments that are more community oriented so things like libraries, parks and rec community development to be under one person those that are more administrative or operational will be under another person in terms of especially since parks and rec and libraries overwhelmingly will contract out for some services pay for some people to come in and do some things and to make sure there's some alignment in those such as only one piece of feedback I could almost tell you that hopefully our department our assistant managers stay a good long time but I have also seen where when someone leaves you tailor who reports to whom based upon their skill sets one of the things we were talking about as we did this is the development of Mr. Doug in here and putting public works underneath them I could tell you from first hand experience when I've gone for job interviews one of the first questions they ask you is what departments have you supervised they want to know your breath of who you supervised have you supervised the chief of police public works do you get it and so when you do these things and you say yeah so you might over the years you might see a couple of swaps that experience and other experience so because our job is we want loving to stay forever but we have succession planning we have career planning we have things just and sometimes you just have some expertise sounds great other comments can you remind us when the communications position is starting we just posted that this week and we are looking to start mid-September or mid-to-late September Petty Benoit's retirement is mid-to-late October so we are looking to get a month overlapped we are also just the same thing we are looking to when we know of people leaving we try to bring someone in at least a couple of weeks into that overlap especially if we know they are retiring or something we have Randy Vaines our assessor retiring at the end of the year Lauren retiring at the end of the year Patty in October yeah I am getting I am like a complex I would take it personally so we we try to think ahead to get people in the recruiting process the interview process three to four weeks of notice to their current employer do you want do you what are you going to do with this is this just for us to chew on for a little while and then you are going to the reason I am asking if you don't mind I am going to ask the indulgence of both boards but I kind of like to allow I wouldn't normally do this if you don't show up then you don't it's not your problem it's not our problem but for Laurie and Dan I would like to see if they might just have a couple of questions if that would be okay or do you need to get this approved tonight I don't know what I would like I would have liked to have put it in place August 1st but there's no I don't see why you can't there's no magic to that date I just if you like you can either get a concurrence unless you hear otherwise I don't think they are going to come in and I guess I am looking for some sort of between of us formally voting yes boom we are going to go forth and do this and just giving you general sense yeah we like this go ahead and do it just so it gives them a little slack so if can we have I mean today is the 2018 if I don't hear anything next week this time yeah I will try to alert them to it and let them know if they have any questions and then we have to communicate back to both boards what any of those concerns are well only if it results in you having to change that I mean I don't think that I don't think I mean my guessing is that they are not going to but I would like to just this could be looked at a significant and I would like them to get a shot at looking at it anyway Mike I am not sure we have that authority though do we have staffing authority I don't know it definitely does be a charter most definitely and it is just a courtesy to come to us the courtesy I am waiting for Dan and Lori and it is a courtesy for Evan to come to us with his changes as well I think it is very wise to come back to the board with that but I don't have any problem giving them a week with their feedback or anybody give yourself a chance if you come up with anything but I would really like to do this so that I put the pieces in place before the budget you don't want to do it before they have a chance to weigh in though I mean I would just like to not present them with the fate of complete and sorry if they go wait a second I didn't understand why you are doing this and too bad sorry you don't get to ask any questions I would just like to give them that opportunity but we would expect this if there is no major concerns from them to be implemented by August 1st yeah right okay good to move on thank you thank you thanks for bringing that forward to us appreciate it okay we did not need executive session for that good alright we are on to F you want to do that one George well I am going to let pass this on to Elaine and Irene these are the definitions of how commonly used words around government consolidation we had two definitions that we added one on community and I guess we expanded the governance one because at the last joint meeting folks wanted to see more on that so those are the two things that have changed okay not a lot of changes but we wanted to present those and make sure you know do you have concerns with the changes or are everybody okay? I thought they were well done to be honest with you I'm good with the changes but I do have one question about what happens we come up with another word it's too late I think we add it as it occurs sure we can be an ad hoc committee let's go with that alright yeah sure this isn't going to be a one week process so I don't think we need to approve that though but they do want to say thank you to you so now we have common language which is very good Andy? I move that the select board approve definitions of commonly used words around governance and consolidation Mary? I have more of that evidence doing similar definitions with the staff and I think it would be nice if we cross pollinated our definitions that we got a chance to see what staff finally agree on and maybe you could share with them what we have now that I have yours we'll cross do that okay any other comments? okay all those in favor of the recommendation to approve the definitions of commonly used words around governance and consolidation signify by saying aye pose okay and passes unanimously thank you okay I hear a similar motion for the trustees I move the trustees approve definitions of commonly used words around governance and consolidation second any further discussion all in favor? aye moving right along down to the last item I will lead off and just introduce it but again I will pass it over to Elaine if I can so the four of us Irene, Elaine, Max and I as the governance subcommittee met and talked sort of I was elected chair thank you very much Elaine was elected appointed as clerk and she's keeping notes and she's doing a great job so far and generally the overview is that we came up with a number of possible scenarios theoretical scenarios for governance reconstruction reorganization that we that all have not all of them but most of them have associated legal technical legislative questions that we will need to have clarified and we came up with a list and then we came up also with a list of some ideas of what we want to achieve through consolidation and then we also raised some questions about concerns that we have going forward with consolidation so that's generally what happened and then the idea our next step is to try to meet with VLCT and take advantage of their legal staff to run these questions by them and get their input and we're not exactly sure where that will lead us but that seemed like to be the best next step we're hoping to do that in August and Elaine was going to try to set up that meeting the idea would be generally that for our meeting in October we would have quite a good granular focus on a lot of this stuff to be able to present to the general the two joint boards on possible different governance scenarios we're not making any decisions but we're trying to just sort of eliminate the very obvious things and find out the important legal questions that I think we all would want to know about so I'll turn it over to Elaine do you want to read the scenarios do you want me to do that? yes please and I would only add two things one is committee members submitted questions that they wanted to answer prior to our meeting to Travis and then we consolidated them I redistributed them amongst the different scenarios that I'll read out for us to continue thinking and to add to if any board members have additional questions please forward them to Travis and he'll get them to us as meeting materials and we'll continue to work on it and then I have an appointment on Friday afternoon to chat with Abby Friedman who is the legal person at BLCT to ask her to come talk to us so hopefully I'll have some dates on Friday afternoon that I can share so we came up with eight scenarios in the course of the meeting by literally just brainstorming and putting them up on a white board so we may have missed some beating some dead horses so we're just going to go through and I'll read which ones we come up with our first scenario is retain the village board of trustees as long as there are village specific needs create an equivalent town outside the village entity for town outside the village specific needs also maintain and expand existing town select board to include the membership of both of the above boards so that the select board has 10 members and this model would entail three separate charters one for each board so it was the first scenario and we did not to be extensively any of these this is just what we came up with the next scenario is dissolve both the village and town charters and write a new single charter for one community form a new board of 5 to 7 members all elected at large and create a rural Essex advisory board and a village advisory board the members of which would be appointed by the elected board the third scenario is create a single consolidated board but maintain two charters each charter would adopt the same amendment to allow this to happen the fourth scenario consider overlay districts and whether they apply outside the realm of planning fifth scenario create a single board of 7 to 9 members create two voting districts village and town outside the village elect three members from the village three from the town outside the village and three at large or whatever combination to meet the number of board members the sixth scenario dissolve the village charter keep the town charter and adjust the town select board membership based on geography the seventh scenario dissolve the village charter keep the town charter maintain a 5 member at large select board and the eighth scenario form a city with a mayor and city council and after the fact after we had the meeting it occurred to me that we did not include as a scenario the current status quo which is to maintain two charters for the village the village trustees and the town select board and then complete current consolidation efforts but do not consolidate any further so those are the nine scenarios that we are now working with and again if any board members have suggestions for others or questions about those scenarios please send them to Travis and that's what we worked on we had a very productive conversation I would say and I think we just we left it so that we are not we wanted everyone to just put their ideas out there and not internally get into a debate about it wasn't up to the four of us to decide well we like this one better than that we wanted all the ideas to be checked out particularly at the formative stage because I'm guessing that probably legal council will eliminate some of these the other idea is that the next step would be once we get it down looking at and Irene correct me if I'm wrong once we get the list down to which ones are feasible acceptable possible then we begin to start looking at generally what are advantages and disadvantages and we kind of looked into a little bit of that but that would be also a bigger board discussion as well any additional thoughts on that yeah we have a separate list of those things that we started to generate which at some point we'll share with you I think as joint boards what we hope to achieve yeah did that list ever see the light of day and I missed it this is the first time you're seeing it because we just had the meeting last week okay so if you want comments to go to Travis I'd like to see that reduced to writing because this is in your packet oh excuse me I'm so sorry it's in the minutes for the meeting which I sent to Travis and he had I'm assuming they've been posted I haven't checked but um they are okay so we should have been sending them to all the boards I my apologies for that oversight so does the intent not to talk about this tonight I think we could talk about it I mean I just wanted to let you know it's very formative very loose right now go ahead oh where to start I read all 48 town charters over the weekend there's 13 of them that have provisions with regard to merging with former villages within their boundaries um so there's a bunch of scenarios of ways this has been done one of the situations that out stands out in my view is Hartford, Vermont which has five villages four libraries, five cemeteries two water districts, two sewer districts seven historic districts and three overlay districts and one at large select board that's the central authority is there a so they have they also have a downtown district committee they have there's a lot of different committees each library has its own budget its own trustee board so there's a they've got a I understand now why I think I saw a few years ago that said the Hartford town manager was the highest paid town manager in the state can I can I just I do an interruption but I go through Hartford so when I go through Hartford am I referring to a town or a village it's White River Junction Hartford is it East Hartford or West Hartford in a town called Wilder but is the central piece a village or a town so there's five villages in seven historic districts it's like a galaxy it's interesting because Kwiichi is not anywhere near White River Junction when you look on the maps but there are two different villages in the same town like I said it's a seven member select board four of which have three member three year terms and the other three have two year terms so they're kind of interleaving when they're all elected as well so there's complex things there did you say they were all at large all at large and I did not find any of the 13 town charters which included provisions associated with merging none of them had regional representation there were a couple of cases where they had the trustees stay in place for a limited amount of time and it was very short it was typically until the next town meeting that they would have both legislative boards in place and then the trustees would cease to exist and everybody would be select board at large only representation there are also provisions where former villages can be the recipients of specific services that they were accustomed to that they pay for that they have their own voting rights on so there's a potential for in town meeting having to segregate where people live to allow them to vote on their portion of a budget versus another so there are those things that I think might be going on that's my interpretation of how I'm reading it but there's only one town meeting one select board for those towns where they have other districts with special service district special service areas I guess they're called and they pay for their services they have their taxed at a different rate bonds of course are paid by whoever Milton has a provision that says that any former village service needs a supermajority to change it so you have to have 75% of their five person select board and I don't know if it needs to go to a public vote whether it would also have to be a supermajority they have a 75% requirement you can't dismantle any of the village infrastructure without a supermajority can I start with a bunch of just go back to another question so in the Kweeche White River Junction Hartford situation you've got a select board that's elected at large and then you've got all these villages it's Hartford itself so they're unincorporated villages right so they do not have their own trustees they actually don't have their own they don't have a legal standing really I was going to ask because I had the question of can you be a governing board over a community in which you do not live that was relevant to us can there can there be a unified board but there are two charters and can someone who doesn't live in the village be on the governing board spend money spend the villages money but I don't think that's still getting there unincorporated villages but they're still identified as villages White River Junction you see the signs on the highway they have their own census numbers taken that's really complicated it is very complicated I did document all of this in an email sent to Travis it did not I know it didn't get into the package they just did this yesterday or the day before whatever day it was there was one one town that required all of their select board members to resign so it was a full new suite everybody had to rerun when they merged there were no towns that established wards except Brattle borough they had their representative town meeting their select board is still everybody is at large the only cases where I found any in the city charters four of them have districts or wards the other five are all would be are all at large so it's only cities from what I've seen current existence that have regional representation on their governing I would just leave the bottom did you look at Bellows Falls in Rockingham that's a village town situation let me see I looked at them I only mention it because they have a kind of Rockingham does not have I read town charters I didn't read village charters Rockingham is the town in Bellows Falls but they're sort of the yeah you can have a village charter within a town that doesn't have a charter you can have a village charter within a town itself doesn't have a charter is there anything that's not there's a default there's a state default that says you gotta have three select board members and so when I look through these that's the other piece of information if I can find it I thought I included oh yeah here it is on the site too most towns in Vermont only have three select board members because that's the default you're allowed to add two more the three base ones are three year terms but if you add more they're either one or two year terms unless your charter stipulates otherwise which ours does and so there are seven towns that have five member three year terms the town of Essex does ironically there are also seven towns that have five members in which three of them are three year terms and two of them are two year terms and then there are also the other seven towns that have five members have three three year terms and two one year terms there's two towns that have seven members one of which has three year terms for all members and the other has is the Hartford case where it's four three and two that are two or three that are two so there's again I put all this in the document but interesting this is exactly the kind of research that we need to be doing that's awesome thank you so much thank you for the discussion thank you for the discussion thank you for the discussion thank you for the discussion thank you for the discussion thank you man thank you for the data thank you so much man that's a great question movement all the question that you said it's the prophet what are you talking about have additional representation, they can certainly get 30 of their neighbors together and today petition to become a village and become an incorporated village elect their own trustees and establish their own their own budget. That's absolutely a viable thing for people to do. So that option A which is establishing a is establishing other village. But they would not in terms if if someone were to do that just hypothetically, they would not have any assets other than what they were able to purchase for themselves. They would have to if they wanted something, they have to buy it. Yeah, absolutely. That was good. Good. So anything, Gary, something I learned this week from Randy van. There's a state stipulation that a town is the only one who can have a clerk to record records and have an assessor. That's why the town is your assessor and why the town is your town clerk. We have a village clerk for your village records, but they don't keep your village clerk doesn't keep land records doesn't keep birth and death and marriage records. Those are done at the town level by state law. Thank you. Thank you. So you Hartford is the town despite all those other entities that are hiding. And there's also a second village in Rockingham, Saksons River or Saksons Falls, something or other like that. That's also in Rockingham. So that's where we are and we'll just let you know and the four of us are going to continue to, you know, and we'll just keep you up to date in the next several weeks and get some answers to these, the plausibility of these scenarios and bring it back to all of you. The minutes will be posted on the website. So the minutes are on the website. It's a select word being so they have to be up first. Right. I'm just saying that that's where they are. And a package that the subcommittee gets to work on is available to everybody on the boards. So when they get to our tablets, they're on your tablets too. The committee is up to you to have access. That one. Okay. Then just comments on the reading file. Let's see. I'm not sure I was handing one up first there. I was impressed that Brooke Haven here in the article about New York State having nine villages and 110 special districts, but sounds like Andy found one closer to home. That's almost as complex as a lot fewer people. Right. Thank you. Anybody else? Andy. For the backstage liquor license thing, do we, the select word need to revisit? Yeah. We also need to see what our authority is. So we're going to come back. We can have that discussion. Yes. It does need to come back. I don't know if it has to come back immediately, but we, we have to finalize it. They were approved subject to state action and whatnot. And so then you should take it out. If you decide that the state action was appropriate and nothing further, you close it and you move on. But the gentleman should be noticed of that hearing and we have to see if he's available. And it probably, my guess is it'll be either the first or second select board in August. We'll try to figure out what he's available for, but we should close it out. The other thing is the item D is this special meeting agenda. H910 Act 166 updated the definition of meetings relative to open meeting law. Um, says the open meeting law adds another definition of what does not constitute a meeting. A meeting shall not mean a gathering of a quorum of a public body of a duly warned meeting of another, of another public body as long as the attending public body does not take action on its business. So, so, but I guess it's not clear to me that a forum about firearms discharge, which is being run by the group that we assigned to go to execute this, is that a different I guess I'm just asking the question. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have done this. I'm just assuming, you know, recently changed the open meeting law provision that. Yeah, I've seen that loss. Thank you for bringing it back to my attention. In this case, I'd still keep it warned. This is an item that that is select board business. And yes, you've delegated it to a facilitator at this point, but it's still it's going to be a business item for you. And we weren't sure if there's going to be a quorum or not at the meeting, if depending on who attends, so we wanted to warn it just in case. You see, it's just observe what's going on. So, teaching any action, but it is something that there is a quorum there that theoretically will influence your actions out of the beginning. There is a quorum, then the select board has to open the meeting and then adjourn it, I guess, right? Minutes need to be posted. There's no action. So, yeah, we would post minutes of who attends and everything else, but there'll be no action taken. There'll be a sign in sheet for who attends, right? What is the intent to going forward, you know, say if there's a planning commission meeting that free select board members want to go to, we're not going to announce that as a select board meeting. I would be happy to not have to warn those, or if you get a regional planning commission, or if you all have to be at Hanifridge at the same time. Yeah, that's social gatherings and trainings are also on the list of things that you don't have to have to warn. So, I just want to make sure we're not going to still go over, you know, because I know we've been we've been airing on the side of caution, but I think there's some clarity here that I think we can stop doing that. I'd like to hope we do. Evan? Yeah, exactly. I'm hopeful that this clarifies if you're going somewhere that is not on your business agenda, you don't have to warn it. If you guys show up at the same backyard barbecue, don't go, oh no, no, no, no, don't talk to me. You're allowed to go to a backyard barbecue, you're allowed to show up at Hanifridge together, don't talk business, don't take any action. If you want to go to other... Let's take some action, you know. Let's buy these. You want to go to other meetings for whatever reason? No, right. And they don't have to sit in disparate parts of the audience here. Take this straw poll about who's going to attend or planning to attend the firearms discussion tomorrow. All right, any slack we got? Mike, you know, go. Okay. Yeah, if it's going to be film or video, we can just watch it. Yeah, I don't believe it's going to be live streamed, but if they're going to channel 17, it's from what I heard, it's going to try to post as soon as possible. So don't be afraid. If you can't find it tomorrow night online, that's fine, but it'll be up there soon. You've been very intimate in this with Jennifer. I mean, some people have asked, you know, why, you know, I think they've asked why the select board aren't attending. And I think you've given them a stock answer. Maybe you can tell them what you've said. Sure. Yeah. So it's come up a few times at the forums, individual people reaching out to Jennifer, who's the facilitator, or myself, and just asking when's the select board going to get involved? How come they haven't been more active? And the response has basically been that this is the direction the select board has given to staff to the facilitator to go through this public process. Hopefully, you're following along. If you haven't, there'll still be time to check out PlaySpeak. That's where we've been directing people for that, for comments. We've also had a forum back in June this month. Tomorrow, staff and Jennifer have done some pop-up events at the farmers market, the library, and St. Hill Park one day. So there's been plenty of outreach and feedback. Jennifer's going to have a report ready for you to review on August 6th. Kind of summarizing a lot of the feedback and results that have come through. We've told people that you are their select board. You represent them. We're not telling them they can't reach out to you or contact you in any way. But at this point, or if we're trying to direct people to PlaySpeak, to the forums, to try to summarize that report. Once that report is put together, the idea at this point is to give that to the select board in the reading file in August. Actually, probably a business item because Jennifer will present it. Have a chance to digest it. Hopefully, a second meeting in August, have a discussion about whether or not you'd like to see any potential ordinance changes, give staff some time to put something together if need be, present that in September and looking at early October having a public hearing if need be. So people have been informed that right now, PlaySpeak is the primary resource, but there are other opportunities where it'll be a business item at openly warned meetings, and eventually there'll be a public hearing if there are any ordinance changes. So people will have other ways to weigh in. That's basically been the explanation and response. Can you remind us when PlaySpeak is closing down, and then how much longer after that will we have an opportunity to be in there looking? Midnight on July 22nd is when it'll close down for comments. I will double check with Jen as to how long you'll be able to review it. Okay, any other comments on the reading file? Okay, hearing none, then I think our business is done, so we'll just need a motion to adjourn. Thank you. Elaine, do I have a second? Thank you. Do you know all those in favor of adjourning? Signify by saying aye. Aye. All right, we're done. Thank you. You're motioning the atrocities adjourned. I'm with the atrocities adjourned. Oh, second. I think he's not here. Work with me. All in favor. All right. Good work tonight, everybody. Yeah.