 In a statement issued via the Twitter handle of Femi Fani Kaede, no fewer than 22 senators on the platform of the ruling or Progressive Congress, APC, are threatening to decamp to the People's Democratic Party because they had been denied their tickets to return to the Senate. It was learned that the number of APC senators has been reduced to 62 by virtue of those senators who failed to secure return tickets to the chamber. Now joining us to discuss this are Professor Chris Muocopia Jr. and of course he is the convener of Country First Movement, ABUJA. And of course Tungi Abdul Amid is a legal practitioner and a public affairs analyst. Thank you so much gentlemen for joining us. It's very good mine. All right. Keep having me. Great. I'm going to start with you, Professor Muocopia. You are obviously a member of the APC and you were at the party primaries that held at the Eagle Square some time ago. Is there any truth or reality or fact backing the tweets that was put out by Femi Fani Kaede who is also a member of the All Progressive Congress? Let me say very importantly that the development of the All Progressive Congress is very worrisome troubling and disheartening. And I say this because the many problems that attended the primaries from the state level to the federal level are still bothered by the party. I'm aware that yesterday the chairman of the party, Elijah Damu, did say that they will reach out to all their great parties and try to maintain this and ensure that people do not leave the party. But as it were, beyond the politics and the politics of it, there are people who are not happy not only because they didn't get the ticket to return to the Senate, but largely because the choice of candidates who are replacing them at the senatorial level, at the House of Reps level, at the gubernatorial level, and indeed the presidential level is something that bothers their carapace of their mind, their morality. I am one of those who are finding it difficult to side and or support the presidential candidate of the party, for instance, and they have a million of people in my shoes. Then don't forget that the Senate president, if you like, wants to return to the Senate. And they are pushing us as to whether he can come back to the Senate because the person that he put as a holder, if you like, is unwilling to relinquish the ticket. So I think that going forward, the party has a lot to do to bridge the gaps, to mend the fences, assuage tempers, and if you like, create some peace. But how far and how well they can achieve that is the push out for the moral. I'm curious, because the statement that you started with, that the chairman was going to reach out to those who were grieved and tried to mend fences, this is something that we hear very often, but half the time these so-called fences never get mended. Do you think the party understands the graveness of what is happening? Because if 22 of its senior members, or let's say strong members, are agitating to move, which is something that is not very out of the blues when we come to the Nigerian political space, how serious do you think the party is taking what's happening within it? No, I didn't get the last one. I'm asking, how serious do you think the party is taking what's happening within the circles of, whether it be at the states or at the federal level, do you think that they understand the graveness of what's going on, and not just paying lip service to it? No, clearly the party is not treating the situation with it most. The party is seriously looking at it. The chairman is already reaching out to the leadership of the party at the Senate level. They're making some good approachments. Like I said, what these worries of is how well and how effective, efficient and effective, if you like, that process would be. I am particularly concerned because across board, the way the party conducted primaries across the different stratification of leadership is worrisome, and that's why people are concerned. That's why the senators are threatening to leave. But you know what, largely with politicians, there are a lot of things that are unpredictable. They might alter their approachments by the party leadership, quit from deflecting. But what is important as I talk to you is the fact that the party is not taking it lightly. The party is seriously reaching out to their members at the level of the Senate and the House of Representatives. And then we will feel a bit uncomfortable with the choice of candidates at the level of the presidency. I am also concerned and we have a lot of people who are leaving the party and who are saying that they will rather support the candidate of Labor Party. Some are saying that they are obedient. Some are saying that they will rather support the candidate of the PDP. So I think that the whole lot that the All Progressive Congress has to put together, it has to reach out to the party tendencies across board, and then show commitment to the urgency of now. Because we have won a new republic. A leader who will fix, will set, will focus, redefine and rebuild our country. Okay. Tungi, there are many pundits, there are many analysts who had said before now, back in 2021, that they see the APC imploding. A lot of other people said they were going to, that the APC was going to rise from the dust like a phoenix. Many also queried how the APC even came into being and what their blueprint or their purpose was, which was to rest power from the PDP as opposed to a plan that would regenerate itself. But did you see this happening? Did you preempt that the APC would be at this point? Knowing again, at the back of your mind, that this is how the political space in Nigeria works in terms of defections. Of course, yes. I have to say this before now. Because you need to know how the party came about and the way they are operating through the year 2015, you must be expecting this. Because it has been about a personal interest, it's not about the nation. And you see a party that came into power in 2015 and up to date, not able to constitute a part of process to be able to even look at issues that the major auger of the party shows clearly that these are not working well in the party. So I expect that it may happen and it will happen today. The one that's happening is a confirmation that the primary the internet of location in APC is not here. That is why you see most people are angry and they're not wanting to leave the party. It's not unexpected for me. I think it's a serious issue for them because if we are hearing move, that will have a serious effect on the essential, what's it called, action. So I think it's a serious one. And that's why the chairman is moving from one place to another and having made them to ensure that they don't go back. I think it may be a bit too late because it has been done. You can't recall them and ask those who have got tickets and give it back to them. Because the major anger is that they were not at home and there's no way, there's nothing to qualify them than to give them back the tickets. Without the tickets, they're very little and too little for them to do so today. It's a serious issue for them. And I think it's not unexpected. It's unexpected because it appears APC has no people that leaders can call people to order. How can people ensure that this would be a major issue? Nobody is doing that party. Everybody is like, I am in charge and it's not too good for the party. That's why they are where they are today. I'm not surprised anyway. Interestingly, let's take for example the governor of Krasheva state run for senate, also run for president. He wasn't able to win any of those offices, unfortunately. There are also states that are still having internal problems. Again, another state, river state, is yet to be able to deliver itself from the problems, the internal crisis that it's had, which has at the center of it, the former minister of transportation and a former senator of the federal republic from an embroidery of sorts that they've had. They've had, in 2019, they had all their tickets cancelled. And then we're here again in 2022, the party is still unable to go beyond the situation which is between Senator Magnus Abe and the minister, Rotimiya Meichi. I mean, Kvara state also has the same issue. And if all of these states are having these kinds of issues that are yet to be dealt with, and then, just like Professor Wokobiya said, there are also issues within the party where certain people seem to want to be looking in the direction of the Labour Party. There are those who say they're not okay with who emerged as the flag-bearer of the APC. And so there are so many interests that might not necessarily be that which the party wants. How easy in the next few months will it be for the APC to be able to mop up this? And of course, let's not forget on the other hand, they're yet to give us a vice presidential candidate which is also waiting in the winds. It will be difficult if it's not impossible for them to be able to go out of this. Because when you don't have a structure that will not be able to... In the world, the internal mechanisms of the APC are not even sure if it's present. Because apart from the fundamental reference to president, whenever the president says follow, nobody is calling anybody to order. And the president is not even interested in letting him do anything. The president is just saying hello and looking again. The president will rather wait until the issue becomes... Before he comes into it. So if you don't have a mechanism or now to resolve this, or internal mechanism, internal... It's generally difficult for you to deal with a particular situation. I don't know who and who will call them to order and who will initiate the process of ensuring that this process goes through. They would have had a lot of surprise. None of them may not. Generally, none of them will do. Because you are teaming already. You see, this is not representing the president's position. Already, as long as we move, for that people have already moved. And it may be... Maybe if you are just saying... Before the end of... Before the president came into the city, not too many of the people who speak to the president didn't think that people want to achieve their interests. Politicians have an interest. And it's possible when they realize that their interests will not be stopped where they are to move. You will not trust them with the police of other regions here. And I will not be... And I'm not surprised that anybody that is not surprised will move from anybody in the party. So I think it's difficult for APP to keep on impossible to be able to resolve this issue. Bearing in mind that it's like a challenge to settle internal conflict within the party. No structural risk. Apart from the executive... Executive... There is no other... There is no other... A functional... What is structural. Right? Without the word, where people can be taught. No other... See, come together. Everybody is... Just working at home. They are all... Even like... We are the one of the people that are doing that and we are taught. We are also trying to go for this challenge. So as far as I'm concerned, it's difficult. People should be able to resolve this. And it may be a benefit for the Labour Party or the GDP of the other parties in that regard. You see, the issue of section 84 is true. There also is not of a matter in that regard. Because the... So that way, the... By virtue of the mistake or error of the... Assembly, the... And then the... They could not... Could not food. And it did not... Put the... In fact, in the governance of those two parties within the city. And that's why... The... That's why we are able to ensure that people... They support... Or... In the... Of... Of the party. So I think... What the party needs and so... Proposal of international... Mechanism... To resolve... Each... Within them. Because that... We are able to... To be... To... To fight in the big league. For the... For the... The game. Okay. Finally, Professor Mokopia, I'm coming back to you. Um... Just as I said... Um, the... The APC had a rocky start this year. I mean, we saw... Even... Up... Up until last year, we saw the issue of... Um... Party leadership. And... Um, Sudden people taking over on ceremoniously. It's been a rocky start. But then... Surprisingly, the presidential primaries held. And... I'm wondering, if people were not okay with what happened or what transpired, why did they even vote? Why did they cast their votes in that regard? I mean... People voted, I saw that, but it was mostly... More on the side of the person who got the flag. Um, if people were not convenient with it, why did they not call it out? Instead of moving away now. Like, apart from the senators who were what, moving away from... Who intend to move away. Like I mentioned to Tunji, there are problems in different states within the parties that may not enable them to win elections at those levels. And if the party does not win the elections at the state levels, how will they be able to carry the day at the federal level? Are you worried about an implosion within the party going forward? If I got it correctly, what I must say is that the party, like every other party, must put its house together. With 2023 ahead of us, the politics, the issues, the challenge, the urgency of now, and the expectations of the Nigerian people for a new republic, a new tendency where great ideas read out and the normal things will be told will predominate our politics. I say this advisedly, because if you look at the states, across the states, we just saw the last election in the kitty and then you have every other states looking for a tossing is next. The challenge of the Nigerian people is for better life and for issues to dominate the discourse rather than individuals and perhaps parties. So I think that that is exactly why the chairman of the APC, for instance, did say yesterday that beyond the victory in the kitty, the Nigeria, the party must understand the challenge of now, must understand the urgency of now, must understand that from the local government level to the federal level, there are issues that border the Nigerian people and predominantly the welfare and the well-being of the Nigerian people should be the sum on bottom. I say this advisedly, because whether you have 41 million members of the APC or 28 million members of the PDP, what we cannot take away from our collective discourse as a nation is that poverty is not partisan. Is that hunger is not partisan. That insecurity is not partisan. All the borders in Nigerian estates and the Nigerian people is beyond political parties. It's in discrimination of political tendencies. So when we discuss these issues that's why I align with those who are saying that the APC must understand that he has a fundamental challenge on his hand. The PDP must understand the urgency of now. You know, I listened to Governor Bakhti of the Dosti when they did a post-mortem of what happened in the AKG state and he said simply that for the PDP to have come a distant car that the PDP and indeed the APC must understand that in every home in this country that young people, young girls, young boys, young men, young women, women and men who identify themselves as obedient is a fundamental challenge whether those who believe that Nigeria will continue the way it's always been realize that or not it is the urgency of now and then beyond that the APC must also realize that safe and accepted puts each house in order it will not only come a distant second it may just come a distant third because people running away from the party on account of the way the primary was handled and with the issues and the urgency of now detail the performance of the federal government as you and I talked to perhaps do not have fear in your car as you and I talked to perhaps do not have electricity at home as you and I talked of perhaps a victim of one issue of insecurity or another so the urgency of now is far beyond an over-partisanship the time has come for that to resolve to commit every structure of politics in Nigeria we must understand the Nigerians are asking for a new deal a new tendency a new republic a new emotions and a new person in the country all right it is not just business as usual it will not be a hoot for the big parties in 2023 we all want the best for our country I am still as I talk to you a kakai member of the APC but primarily my emotions and sentiments are increasingly by the day becoming obedient well on that note we have to go unfortunately time is not on our side but I want to thank you Professor Mokobiya Chris Mokobiya who is the convener of country first movement Abuja and Tunji Abdullah Mead who is a legal practitioner and of course a political analyst thank you so much gentlemen for being part of the conversation unfortunately time is not on our side good measures my friend thank you man all right well that's the show tonight we will be back tomorrow as we wrap things up for the week but we'll still be talking about the big stories in the political scene in Nigeria and of course across the African continent I am Mary Anakon have a good evening