 Welcome to Kondo Insider, our weekly show about association living here in Hawaii. This is July 5th, the day after 4th of July. So I want to say happy birthday, America. And also, I'd like to thank all of our veterans who have served and are serving us today with the great freedoms and protections they provide us in our country. So I thought an interesting show today, you know, I normally have a guest, but we're trying an experiment on some educational series where it's more direct on specific topics and where you have the ability to get some more direct knowledge on a topic. So today's kind of an experiment for us, and I thought the most beneficial and fun, maybe not so fun, story we could do is, can I fly the American flag in a Kondo? And can my Kondo board ban me flying the American flag? Interesting question. And maybe the answer is not so simple. So I've asked, and I want to begin and apologize at the beginning of the show because we've had a couple of technical video difficulties where I had a couple of videos I wanted to play today. Only one of them is going to be available, so I'm going to have to describe some of these examples to you, and I'll do the best of my most colorful way to describe them to you. And we encourage you to call in if you have questions at 808-374-2014 and ask questions about this issue, because, surprisingly, you'll be surprised how complex that question is. Can I fly the American flag? As a patriot and a veteran, I would love to fly the American flag, but it truly is a little more complex than you might think. So let's begin by the video we can play, and we'll start with some dialogue. Residents in this Libertyville neighborhood are up in arms, upset with their homeowner's association Knowles of Breckenridge over what they feel are restrictive neighborhood rules, rules that restrict their freedom of speech. I got two kids fighting in Iraq. I mean, my dog is in the Navy Seals. I love America, and it's my duty and right as an American to be able to say it loud and proud. But my HOA says that my patriotic duty, my first amendment rights are against their corporate policy. Reagan recently received a violation notice from Knowles of Breckenridge stating that he had to remove his American flag and other yard decorations, or face fines. Knowles of Breckenridge spokesperson Carol Peering says the association's policies are clear. As a community manager, it is our goal to help the association preserve and elevate the home values. In Mr. Reagan's case, the board has communicated to him numerous times what the rules are on yard art and feel it's only fair if all neighbors comply. Why do you hate freedom and being patriotic? The Knowles of Breckenridge Association believes in freedom, and thanks Mr. Reagan's children and all soldiers who are fighting on our behalf. The rules of the association state that seasonal art can be displayed three weeks prior and five days after a holiday, and that flags must be flown at a 45-degree angle from the home. The association is just asking that Mr. Reagan exercise his commitment rights within those rules. I mean, it just don't seem right. My family's done sacrifice for this country going back to the Civil War. My great-great-grandfather Benjamin Franklin, Jefferson Moore, Reagan fought in Gettysburg. I think these people would be grateful. Reagan has appealed his violation notice with the Breckenridge board of directors. In the meantime, Reagan doesn't plan on letting up on his love of freedom and the American way. Shoot. I mean, this flag, all these decorations, it's my way of saying I love the USA. I mean, it just don't seem right for me to take them down. Just doesn't seem American. While the association's extensive bylaws make it clear that Mr. Reagan is in violation. A decision from the Breckenridge board of directors isn't expected for two weeks. Only time will tell whether this man's love of country and freedom will win out over board policy. Well, that was an interesting video. Let me first tell you that that was a training video that was prepared by associate to create dialogue within our company on the issues regarding rules enforcement. So that's not a real news story. But you can see it creates certain interesting discussions about flying the American flag. Because when you look at that video, you see it wasn't just flying the flag. He created a, in some people's view, an artful way of expressing or displaying it. He didn't have a flag. He had along his walkway about 20 flags. And he made it an issue because of his patriotic duty that he wanted to fly not just the flag, but lots of flags. And then you get into the issues of protocol with regard to flying the American flag, which there is specific protocol for flying the American flag. So when you look at that video, it creates some very, very interesting questions. As a board member who has to establish rules of uniformity and ones that apply to all owners equally without discrimination, it throws open these questions. Well, first of all, can I fly any size flag I want? I mean, if you look at Fort Sumter and where the star, not Fort Sumter, Fort McHenry in Baltimore, Maryland, where the Star Spangled Banner was written, I mean, that flag was huge. And what if he said, well, I want to fly the American flag and erect a 50-foot flagpole in my yard. And then you go on and ask yourselves some other questions besides size. Well, how many flags can I fly in my neighborhood? Well, you know, I'm from France. I want to celebrate the steel days. I'd like to fly the French flag. Oh, but I'm Mexican. I want to celebrate Cinque de Mayo and fly the Mexican flag. Nothing against French and Mexicans. But you can see the list goes on and on on what is a flag. And it gets even a little bit more complicated than that. Because what if I was a realtor and I took the American flag and I put on it and put over the top of it, for sale number unit 602? Well, am I flying a flag or is that a commercial sign? So is it unreasonable to keep your association looking great and protecting the property values? Is it unreasonable to have rules with regard to flying a flag or posting of signs or things along that line? I mean, we see it now already in Hawaii where you have open house signs and for sale signs with realtors and being a realtor myself. I understand why they want to be able to display their signs. And I'm going to get into this at the end of the show, how it really works in Hawaii. And I'll answer the question then about whether your association can ban flying the American flag. But you know, there's several cases nationwide on this topic. And what I want to do is take a moment before our break and talk about a case in Colorado. And I've got to go to my phone and look at some notes here. I apologize. But have you ever heard of the Gadsden flag? So I think we have a picture of the Gadsden flag we're going to put up for a few seconds if we have it. The Gadsden flag, don't tread on me. Those of you who know the history of the Gadsden flag, it's quite an interesting history. And the history is that back in 1775, when we were a colony under Britain, the British government started sending their criminals to America to live instead of putting them in prisons in Britain. So we were being put into all these criminals were being sent to America by the British government out of England and sent to the colonies. And Benjamin Franklin in 1775 said we should send the British government a bag of rattlesnakes as payment for these criminals that they're sending to us. That is exact words, but that's the message behind it. So that flag actually became one of the first mottoes of the colonial marines as a motto as part of their battle flags. And it's a yellow flag with a black rattlesnake. Don't tread on me. And technically speaking, the rattlesnakes should always be looking to the left to talk about not a political statement, but a statement about the rattlesnake's basic behavior. If unprovoked, it'll leave you alone. It's when you provoke it, it strikes back. And it was a message from the colonies to Britain and others, we don't want to be provoked. Don't provoke us because you'll pay for it. We'll crap on you back. But it wasn't designed as an adversarial kind of a fighting type of thing. It was certainly not a political statement. It was basically saying that we're prepared to defend ourself, and it really had to do with self-determination of the colonies back in 1775. So that's a little bit of history on the subject. So what happened in Colorado and a homeowner association? This is the video I wanted to play, which was a newscast from a TV station. And basically, an owner decided to fly, among other American flags, an American flag with the don't tread on me emblazoned on the flag. What's happened in society over time recently is don't tread on me has actually become a political statement to organizations like Me Too or Black Lives Matter, whatever it may be. But I don't want to say specific organizations. But organizations like that, it's kind of a political statement for don't tread on me. And so it's become more of a political thing today than it is about our government and about patriotism, as it was in 1775. So now you take this owner in Colorado who's taken the American flag and put on the flag itself, the snake and the don't tread on me and is flying it along with some other American flags. And so the condo or the homeowner association gave them a notice you can't fly that flag. You can certainly fly the American flags. But you can't fly that specific flag, which was the American flag with this, as you can see the original don't tread on me flag, with that rattlesnake and the slogan on top of it, you can't fly that because it's not an approved American flag. And you know what? The condo association is correct. That is not an American flag. And if you look up the history of the American flag, it is not a flag that is a true American flag or a version of the American flag. So can the condo association board say, well, you can fly the American flag. You can't fly American flags. You've doctored to make some statement. Now, the owner in this case says, no, it's about patriotism. But the other owners, some of them are upset about it because they're saying it's a political statement because, truly, other organizations have used the slogan, the original patriotic slogan, don't tread on me, to be a statement about their organization on women's rights or their lives or their racism or things like that. And clearly, the history and all the historians have written and said, this was never a political statement. It was a patriotic statement. So anyway, the association filed suit against this owner and basically said, you have to take down that specific flag that's not authorized because you're making a political statement, not a patriotic statement. We encourage you to fly the American flag. Well, like all homeowners, they disagree. And it's going to court. And they're being fined every day for flying the wrong flag. And because the court has a rule, I don't know the answer to it, but it emphasizes and again shares how difficult it is for boards to establish rules that can be uniformly applied, rules that would be equitably applied, and rules that don't kind of interfere with the rights of others. And there are personal political beliefs because that's not the purpose. And there are solutions to this, by the way, but we're starting this off as Ken the Condo Association Board ban you from flying the American flag. And on that note, I want you to think about it. And I want you to go get a drink in the refrigerator. And we'll be back in one minute with the answer and some more war stories. Hello, everyone. I'm Yukari Kunisei, the host of Japanese broadcasts on the Japanese broadcast of Hello, Hawaii. I'm here from 2 p.m. every Monday. I'm here at the Japanese Community, the Japanese Community of Hawaii, for convenient help, news, and so on. Hello, everyone. I'm here from 2 p.m. every Monday. Please take a look. I'm Yukari Kunisei, the host of Hello, Hawaii. Hi, I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark. And every Monday at 1 o'clock, I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's research in Munna. And at that program, we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university, ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the Earth from space, going underwater, talking about earthquakes and volcanoes, and other things which have a direct relevance not only to Hawaii, but also to our economy. So please try and join me 1 o'clock on a Monday afternoon for Think Tech Hawaii's research in Munna. And see you then. Well, I'm back. Hope you went and got a nice glass of water or soda or something to watch this show further. We're talking about flying the American flag in a condo association. And we played a video with regard to an example of some of the issues that come up when flying the flag. And then I talked story about a situation in Colorado where the person somewhat changed the American flag and put the don't tread on me logo from the revolutionary times on the flag to make a allegedly patriotic statement that could be construed as a political statement. And now I want to tell you, if you wanna have some fun, go get your app and go to Google and Google through YouTube flying the American flag unfairly or something to that extent or improper flying of the American flag. And you're gonna find many videos all over the country where people have been told for one reason or another, they can't fly the American flag in a condo association. And certainly when you look at these videos, which I've done many of them, it emphasizes how broad this issue is on what people could do because I think that everybody's gonna use common sense on a condo. Anybody who's been in this business knows that condo sense is, common sense is not a word that's always available. We see so many things that happen in condos that I've threatened here, the association or think tech here that I'm working on a new show called Condo Court where we're gonna take actual condo examples of real court cases and what happened and in some ways it's laughable because people's positions. But staying on our theme for today, I wanna go back to Ken, the condo board, ban you from flying the American flag and I wanna tell one more story. And now we're going to Florida and unfortunately we don't have the photograph of this but let me describe it to you. Condo Association Townhouse has a little step in walking up to the front porch and people are allowed to put flower pots, little flower pots, about like that. And so an owner took one of these simple American flags that are probably one and a half by three feet or even smaller on a little wooden stick and stuck it in his flower pot. And so this owner got a notice from his condo board saying you violated our rules on the appropriate methods for filing, flying the American flag. Essentially kind of like the sample video we had earlier you can fly it but it's gotta be on the house at a 45 degree angle from the front door or something to that effect. I don't know the exact rule but it was something along that line. But he took a little simple cheap flag that stuck it in the flower pot and got this notice that he couldn't do that. So anyway he met with the board and they came to a resolution of the matter and he was able to continue to put the flag as a flag in the flower pot. Unbeknownst to him for at least until after it was done the condo board then changed its flower pot rules prohibiting anything to be in a flower pot other than the flowers. And so then they notified him he had to take the flag out because he was violating the flower pot rule. And they proceeded to start filing him $100 a day. And to some point in time he began protesting and refused to take the flag out. Said you change the rules after we already agreed I can put the flag in the flower pot and the board didn't relent on its position. And so all of a sudden the next thing that happened to him this is hard to believe but this is true. I encourage you to Google this stuff. The next thing happened to him he got a foreclosure notice for unpaid maintenance fees. And he showed the reporter who wrote this article that he paid his maintenance fees every month. But he went and watched our show last week I think it was a week before. We talked about priority of payment for most condo associations say that when you pay us money it first goes to fines and legal fees related to fines. So in essence these $100 a day fines they were paying from his maintenance fees leaving an unpaid balance of maintenance fees. So they were foreclosing for unpaid maintenance fees because the board had a priority of payment policy of how they were gonna apply these payments when you mailed them into the lock box. So meanwhile he's generated $8,000 in fines and which is now declared unpaid maintenance fees and therefore closing on his unit. Now he has publicly stated he's selling his unit he's moving away, he's not paying the fines he filed a lawsuit in the federal court the federal court said it was a state court issue and so now it's before the state court again I don't know the answer but I think it brings up interesting questions about can your association ban you flying the American flag? And I'm going to now give you the answer a decisive, clear answer. The answer is maybe. Here's the point. Association boards do have a responsible to establish quote reasonable unquote reasonable rules for the association. It certainly has some degree of reasonable is to limit the size of a flag, the number of flags it should be fly using the American flag protocol and it certainly has the ability to say when flags can be flown. But to be able to say that they can establish unreasonable rules that just bans it in its entirety probably not. And let's look at how that applies to Hawaii specifically because we have last year adopted a law that helps influence this particular issue. Well let's look at the first thing would be as I said maybe one or two shows ago priority of payment. When you get notices from your board you should have a right to appeal for any rule to be enforceable. You need to not ignore these notices let it build up to be big numbers and legal fees and things along that line. You need to go address those for your board earlier. In Hawaii we have the benefit of mandatory mediation dominally evaluated mediation before a retired judge so you can avoid all the legal costs of having to hire a lawyer. What's interesting under the Hawaii law with a law that is not on the veto list which was passed this year it says that you can't use priority of payment for fines, late fees related to fines or legal fees related to fine until you've had this mediation request. So you have choices here in Hawaii and how to deal with this issue which they may not have had in Colorado or with regard to Florida. So in some respects you certainly don't want your association to be a blight of a flag from every country and I'm not criticizing any country. You know associations to stop establish meaningful rules. The sample video gave you a good example. You can fly your American flag two days before a national holiday and seven days after the holiday. So you're allowing people to have their patriotic expression. It gets a little further here in Hawaii because we, I don't know if any other state is quite this way. It's the election time this year. You know the primaries are August and the general election is November. People now wanna do vote for whoever their candidate. They wanna have these signs all over. And so most associations have adopted that during a specific period of time they allow you to fly one, fly post one sign with respect to supporting a candidate through a specific period of a sign of time and at a particular size which gives you your political rights without making this something that all year long you're dealing with signs. It's interesting for realtors too. Because certainly this is impacted by what's a homeowner association, high-rise condo, townhouse and what's available for a sign. So most condos don't allow for the for sale signs. They don't want for sale signs over the building. What's the deal with the property values to have these signs hanging from the little eyes? What they do allow typically is an open house sign on the day of the open house for a specified period of time. So it's reasonable for the board to protect the property values and establish reasonable rules for signs and flags but at the same time not prohibit them in their entirety because it's more complex than we might think. With respect to what the issues are and boards are trying to hopefully in their best judgment provide reasonable rules that you can have expression without offending the other residents without making the association be making a political statement at the same time allow you to express your patriotic rights. And on that note, my official and final answer, can your condo association board ban the flying of the American flag? Maybe but they can establish rules that are reasonable with respect to signs, banners and flags in its association. And what is reasonable? Well, hopefully you won't have to go to mediation or before a judge to find out. You'll be able to work it out with your board and make everything all great. So we hope you enjoyed your show today. Sorry for the technical difficulties and some of the videos I wanted to see. Remind you, go to Google and do some search on this. It's quite interesting and make you laugh for sure. So anyway, thank you for watching Condo Insider and we'll be back next week on Thursday at three o'clock. Aloha.