 When would I be justified with a brother report? To say it's 100% gonna rain? Yeah. When... I mean, when it's raining? Um... That's the only time. Might be. I'm just gonna practice for interviews. Cause I got one tomorrow for a mining company? Mining engineering. Is it West Rock? No, um... Would you mind if we move that phone? Yeah, sure. Did I hold out a phone? Yeah, no, you understand. I understand. See, we're both screwing up. We're texting each other. I know, right? Exactly! Exactly! No, but... It's Rogers Group. It's a... I think they're more, like, on the material side of the mining. Okay. Of, like, aggregate mining, that kind of stuff. Would you mind if I recorded the talk that we do? Sure. So, I'm Ty, by the way. Drew? Drew? Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. Andrew, Drew, by the way. Drew, nice to meet you. Yeah, it's really rough. I'll set up in parks, or campuses, and just have conversations with people about whatever they strongly believe about. Anything they think is true. Just have, like, a really fun conversation that's face-to-face, and show, like, there's advantages to having, like, a face-to-face communication. Well, you get a lot more. I agree. You do. Also, I feel like there's empathy that you don't get when you talk, like, over... Of course not. Computers and people... There's a lot of non-verbal communication. Exactly. And... I work in ministries a lot, so... Okay, okay. I would read Middle School Ministry back there. Oh, man, that sounds interesting. So, really, then, is there... So, really, I take the stance of, like, I don't know. I'm only going to learn what do you got. Let's have a cool conversation about something you strongly believe is true. Something you know you can't believe to be wrong about. Can you? Normally, some f**k guys over there would be cool if it was, like, something supernatural based, like, karma or god-belief. I've got my face. Can we talk about your face? I'm Christian. All right. Drew, Christian. And normally it's good if we, like, censor it around, like, something you know is true. Like, I know you're a Christian. I'm pretty confident about that. I'm pretty confident about that. Yeah. But, like, what about Christianity? Do you think it's very true? We'll talk about God's a loving God, but also a... I'm trying to think of the different parts of it. Yeah, have you got anything, like, more objective? Like, maybe God exists? That's pretty big. I mean, we could be God exists, sure. Yeah, that's a big one, though. I'm from Baltimore, so I've had that argument many times. See, I'm not here to argue with anyone. No, no, no. I just mean, like, I have a lot of points on that that I've thought about a lot because I've had the discussions about it with people. Okay, okay. And let you know, I'm not about argument. I'm not trying to argue with you. Yeah. I said you were. No, I'm just playing with you. See what I'm doing? Yeah. Anyway, so God exists. Which God are we talking about? Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ? Father, Holy Spirit. All three in one. It's three in one. It's not... Trinity exists? Is this like... That becomes a different argument. Yeah. That becomes a different conversation depending on what brand you're Christian. Could we say like the supernatural side of the true energy exists? Yeah. Because I wouldn't argue that a guy named Jesus is just sitting around. Yeah. Yeah. You understand why I wrote that? Jesus is God. We can say that. Or a God exists and it was Jesus. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. Apples and oranges at this point. I'm wondering, is this like the biblical version or is it the Catholic version? The biblical... Which Bible? The Bible. So I use either ESV or NASB if you know what that is. I know NSV. Well, N-A-S-B. I don't know N-A-S-B. So it's directly from the Greek and the Hebrew. New American... Standard Bible. And it has... So I'm in the back of my Bible. I have... It's actually in my backpack. What's that first one that you said? ESV. Just the general. That's a very common one. Okay. But N-A... Or N-I-V, honestly. I like the N-I-V too. I use all three of those. Okay. N-A-S-B is nice because it has... It's directly... So rather than being a translation of a translation, it's a translation from the original documents. From the original Greek. From the original Hebrew. So in the back of my Bible, for every word of the Bible, I have a definition of the Greek or Hebrew word because a lot of times... Or Aramaic. It's three languages. Pretty cool. Would you say you're Catholic? Baptist, Baptist, Protestant. Non-denominational. Non-denominational, the best denominational. You got a lot of Bibles for it too. I get to compare and... I get to look through all the different things that people say and... It's good to have multiple references for anything. Yeah. That's why I have an ESV Bible and an ASV Bible. Nice. So I can compare. Do you have a Mormon Bible as well as a Jehovah's Witness Bible? So it's strictly just... Different perspectives but within the same mindset. Yeah, because Mormonism has... I mean, this comes back to a lot of Christianity's personal beliefs, right? So with my faith, I don't really believe in a lot of... I don't believe in the second coming that Mormons believe in. I get it. That already happened. Got it. I don't believe. Okay. And they have a lot of other things like they don't believe... What about Catholic tenets? Like saints. Saints? I haven't done enough research. I need to do more research that's one of the topics I've thought about. Jehovah's Witness tenets? No. No? I've talked with Jehovah... Which is actually fun. I had a guy in my bus last year in high school that I got to talk to about Jehovah's Witness. Okay. So I always ask these questions with that way I don't come into the conversations with assumptions. You know what I mean? Because that's not going to help anyone. But non-denominational, multiple different kinds of Bibles believes that God exists. Yeah. How confident are you that God exists from like from 0 to 100? 100%. I'm just going to define 100% again so I don't assume. Yeah. But 100% to me, or at least in this conversation, it's like a guy who's so confident they know they can't be wrong. Yep. Has zero doubts. Yep. What happens in the future? Whatever happens in the past, they will not change their mind. I'm not going to change my mind. Like literally if God comes down and he's like, hey, by the way, my name is Barry. I don't know who this God person is. Barry. Yeah. Barry. Right? Barry. It's like, no. I'm holding out for the God that's named God. Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. If... Yeah, I would still... I would... I mean... You would still hold true to the belief that you have been around him. His name is God. It's just what we call him. He doesn't really have that. But he's saying his name is Barry. Yeah. And he's like not what I say. Yeah. Like he's got... He looks like Thor, but with a bill... A bill to be able to... A Barry. But he looks super cool. And I'm like, holy crap, what's the deal? He's like, stop. No. If that happened, I would start thinking along the lines of, oh, this could be maybe the end revolutions. It talks about the... What's it called? The... Not the Hantai Christ. The... The false prophet. The false prophet. The false prophet. It talks about the false prophet. So you'd still hold true to 100% for sure. Yeah. Because it specifically talks about that in revolutions. Because at the end, the false prophet's going to come and everybody's going to try and follow him. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. What got you to your 100% level of confidence? Or what was the best in life? Life experiences. I have lots and lots and lots of them. So... What's the best one? That's really hard to pick, because it's a comp... It's a compilation of things that really leads to the... Like points to him. If that makes sense. What's the one that if it didn't happen, your confidence might drop a little? Knowing the Holy Spirit's there. Feel it. That other... The personal experience of the Holy Spirit? Yeah. I don't know how to explain it to non-believers, but that's the one thing that's really hard in conversation, is explaining the feeling of the Holy Spirit. So having the Holy Spirit there. And feeling that presence. It's a very strong feeling. It's a very strong presence. And at different occasions, when I came to Christ, initially I finally decided, oh, this is my own thing, not my parents. Can I throw something at it? Yeah. If you didn't have that feeling, would your confidence drop at all? Not through zero percent or fifty, but like from a hundred to a ninety-nine, or a hundred to a ninety-nine. That exists? If that had never happened. Yeah. If your personal experience of the Holy Spirit and your life experiences, the ones that you... I guess the one that we're picking from is the Holy Spirit. So if specifically the Holy Spirit didn't happen, but all the other things I've seen had happened, I would still believe. It would still believe at a hundred percent? Yeah, because of... So it doesn't seem like that's... Well, there's also... So it's not just the Holy Spirit that's... Yeah. It's also like to the power, like specifically the summer. Let's take that... Or back... I did a mission trip to India. Can I throw out something? Can I throw something? Yeah. It sounded like that you were saying that the personal experience you had with the Holy Spirit, whether it happened or whether it didn't happen, would still keep you at that hundred percent level of confidence, right? I mean, that... It would probably drop me to ninety-nine, let's say. It would drop. There might be a point zero, zero, zero, zero difference, that kind of thing. I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong. I'm really just trying to see what got you to that hundred percent. Yeah. So that probably got me there, because that's what initially that was the push. Okay. That like pushed me over the edge of like a while. This is very real. Could you be more confident than you are right now that your God exists? I mean, I'm always going to be learning more and more about him. That's the amazing thing about him. But you already told me that even if you had additional evidence that you still wouldn't change your mind. So I'm wondering... I'm saying like... So I could... With God, right? He's an infant, right? So because... I don't know. Okay. In my opinion. Yes. From what I've learned from the Bible. He's infinite. What does that mean? So there... He is infinitely powerful. He is infinitely complicated. He... What does infinitely anything mean? It means that it never ends. It never ceases to be more of whatever that is. Okay. So... I can't comprehend infinity. Can you? No. That's the point. How do you know if something's infinite or not infinite is faith the reason? Faith is the origin. Right. The face of my religion. Is faith getting to your hundred percent? Yes. Without faith, would you be lower in your confidence? Yeah. It wouldn't exist. Okay. Because without faith, there's no... So God doesn't want us to just believe because of facts. We're meant to believe because we have faith. And that's the basis of Christianity is faith. Okay. Some other... Oh look, there's all these facts lined up. They're there. And that's really cool to look at. And I love understanding God through those. But that's not the basis of Christianity. If you don't have faith, there's no... What do you mean when you say faith? What does faith mean to you? So faith to me means belief, first of all, that God exists. And belief that God exists in the form of Jesus. And in... That's where it gets confusing. Yeah. I guess I meant like if we were to define faith... The word faith? Yeah. When you say faith, or what do you mean when you say faith? So trust. You're using faith to get to your conclusion about God. Faith meaning trust. Trust. In God. And trust in what the Bible says. Because that's his word. So that's what he is saying, if that makes sense. I'm going to throw a question out at you. Is it possible for other people who are not Christians to use faith? Yeah. Faith isn't just a Christian concept. So it's not just faith in the Bible. It could be faith in any way. Yeah. Or anything. Okay. Not just a book. But for me, that faith is... And like, you can put faith in anything. It just depends on the amount of faith. I have 100% faith in the Bible. I get you. I have high amount of faith in my parents. It's making a lot more testing. Because I trust them. I get it. I get a lot more testing. It's more about trust, if that makes sense. Could you have trust in something that's not true? Yes. Could you have faith in something that's not true? Yeah. Do people have faith in something that's not true right now? Yeah. I think that a lot of people have faith in a lot of different things. More specifically? If faith can be used in things that are true and not true, how is faith getting a 200% confidence that you're true? So faith is an addition of multiple factors. So faith is a big factor. The feeling of the Holy Spirit is a big factor. Those two things together... Can I have a personal feeling that ends up not to be true? Yeah. If I can have personal feelings that could be true and not true, faith could be true and not true. How does adding those two things together make 100% certainty that I'm adding something that's true? Say it again. Sorry. If I could have feelings that might lead me to something that's not true and faith which is as a system that might lead me to something that's not true, how does combining faith and personal feelings give me this something that's 100% true? So... How is my confidence just if you want it? If you want to... I mean it's hard... If you want to put it in like a simpler term, I guess this isn't a 50% analogy, like that's perfect, but think of it as 50%, 50%, 50% plus 50% equals 100%. Can I throw something at you? Yeah. If there was a rather reported that said there's a 50% chance it's going to rain today. It's not going to. It might rain, it might not rain, I have no idea. But I got another weather report from another channel that said 50%. And so all I did was just combine those two 50% and now I know 300% sure it will rain. It might rain, but was that a good system that I used to get to that computer? Yeah. If you want to look at it from that analogy perspective, think of it as the multiple factors, what I was talking about earlier, there's multiple factors that lead to my faith and lead to my belief in God. So if you heard from 100 different weather reports that there's a high chance of rain, let's say, then you would believe that there is, maybe it's not going to 100% rain, but it's a lot more reasonable than it could rain. Yeah, absolutely. If you heard from all of those many, many sources. When would I be justified with a weather report? To say it's 100% going to rain? Yeah. When? I mean, when it's raining? Yeah. That's the only time. Might be. So with that information, do you have any evidence? You said you didn't need evidence, but you have faith, which doesn't seem to be as objective or as direct as that one-to-one evidence of seeing it rain. And you have these personal experiences which seem to be to the point where they could be wrong or right to an extent unreliable. Yeah. Do you have anything that's 100% verified, 100% correlated to a 100% confidence? Do you have anything that justifies a 100% level of confidence in this belief? In the belief in God, do you mean? That God exists. That God exists. Yeah. To 100%. Bible. My opinion. The holy book? Yeah. The Bible. It is 100% true. So the fact that it says God exists. How did you determine that it was 100% true? Faith leads back to faith. Which we know is not necessarily reliable. 100%. Yeah. So then what about... In Christian terms, I guess Christian is, you could say, in bi-worldly perspective, it's not. Right. So I can never and that's part of the thing of Christianity is... Oh, he's not yelling at somebody right now. No, he's just preaching. But like, so from the Christian perspective, God gives us a choice, right? This comes back to the basic concept of Christianity, the basic concept of Adam and Eve, all of them. Then choosing sin over choosing God, right? For people, I'm assuming you have background knowledge on that. Basic story. So God gives us a choice. We don't... He didn't set it up so that we have to follow him. I don't... And I'm not discrediting that tell whatsoever. I'm wondering, how do you know that it's true? How do I know that it's true? And to the 100% level of certainty that you're at, do you have a reliable method to know that that is true? That is 100% reliable. By a worldly perspective, no. Can I tell something about it? I don't know how to link. Can I tell something about it? Yeah. I got a coin. It's not a trick coin. I flip it. Catch it. It's on the back of my hand. Let's say it's a quarter. It could be heads or tails. I don't know if it's heads or tails right now. Do you know if it's heads or tails? Okay, so we can go to science. What kind of thing? We can talk about Schrodinger. He's actually really mean, but we'll talk about it later. History, right? Anyway, your heroes fall left and right. But I can go to science and I'll be like, hey, can you tell me if this coin's heads or tails flip a thousand coins and tell me they'll flip it and tell me to come back with 50-50. Not conclusive. And I could look at this with faith and say, I have faith that it's heads. But it could be tails. It could be tails. I could have a personal experience that was very strong with coins that were heads up, but it wouldn't necessarily affect the odds of this coin. And I could look at it with a Christian perspective, but it may not necessarily reflect reality if we're working in reality. In a situation like this, it seems that I don't know is actually not just an option, but maybe the best answer. What do you think about that? So that comes back to the physical versus non-physical side of things. So based on my beliefs and based on Christianity, there's not just the physical world that we see every day. We'll touch, hear, smell our senses, right? The five senses. We have a lot more than that, but yeah, I'm just interested. Yeah, you know what I mean. But then there's going into a lot more than that. Sometimes, I don't know, for different people have experienced this, I've experienced this, many others. I'm not doubting that that world exists. I'm wondering, do we have any reliable way to pull information from that world? No. If we don't. Other than... If we don't. What's wrong with saying you don't know? For I don't know. If I say I don't know when I, in my heart, know that God exists, right? And I say, oh, I don't know 100%. That would be not having faith. And having faith is what's the most important thing in Christianity, having faith in God that He tells us has saved. What does it say about Christianity if you're saying, actually, maybe not, I may not have a good reason to come to this conclusion, but I can't let my heart dip down in confidence. For example, you would agree that people can believe in something 100% with their heart, but still be wrong, right? Yeah. That's the case. In my opinion, at least from my perspective, they are believing something that is, they might believe. You're non-denomination, I think. Why are you not letting yourself think before stupid capabilities? You mean, like, thinking Catholic or thinking some other religion? We're not part of a religion that says, hey, follow these ways of thinking exactly as we described. Because... If you have some... If you have a conflict between... So the reason I have a conflict with other branches a lot of the time is because I look at the Bible and I read the things that God specifically says. That was what I was asking. I'm just going to get right. Straight to the point. Okay, that's good. There's something that might be true and may not be true. Mm-hmm. You can recognize that the method that you have are not reliable getting to the answer. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying it's true or not true. I'm just saying, in a situation like that, it seems like I don't know might be a functionally, intellectually honest answer. From an intellectual standpoint, I don't know would be the correct answer. And what more reliable methods do you have to actually reach a conclusion? Than the intellectual... Yeah. Method. Again, it just comes back to faith. Is faith reliable? Is faith a reliable way to come to a true conclusion? I think it is. From an intellectual perspective, it is not. Can people use faith and come to a wrong conclusion? Yeah. We've been over this. Yeah. What do you think? I think that, yes, you can come to a wrong conclusion through faith. I don't think I have, but from... How do you know that? Exactly. From an intellectual perspective, me saying that makes me seem foolish. No. Not foolish, but makes me seem... Or makes me not 100% correct from the intellectual perspective, correct? If I say I'm relying 100... If I rely 100% on faith, right? If I'm relying on faith... If you had a better system than intellectual thought, Yeah. I would want to know about it. My better system would be faith. But it seems like with faith, we can easily demonstrate that people can have faith in true things. Yeah. So... What's a better system? Following the Bible? So... If you follow those biblical truths, so if you study the Bible, and this is again where then you get into people have different interpretations of different parts of the Bible. Yeah. So then you have to get into discussing people start... People start discussing which perspective is correct. Yeah. I bet this guy probably has opinions on it as well. He probably has different beliefs than I have on something. Yeah. I don't know which one of you is telling the truth or not. Or even if you generally mean that you are saying something that's true, what's a good way to test that if you're both using faith? If we're both using faith? Yeah. Send that person to the origin of where we're both getting our information? Ooh. Is that in deep space? No. So the origin of where we're both getting our information is the original document. So the original Torah, which is the Hebrew version of... It's the Hebrew Holy Book. So from the original, those documents, and then the letters written by the apostles and the Bible, basically. But the original Greek and Hebrew texts of the Bible, not the translations. And I think that's the best for... Not like the... Not my versions, not anyone else's versions, all of the translations. Can I close up now? I think they're still going to breathe, but I think that they have that kind of human... In the event that you don't have the actual original translations and that you're using a system of faith, which, as you said, that kind of belief is something a little different and earnestly believe that it's true and no 100% of it's hard. With the... With the South Berber Baptist Church, that's extremely different than most other... I'm not trying to get you down from 100%, but do you think you're justified at being 100% right now? Justified by God, yeah. But by you. By... I ask you. By my... I think I'm justified 100%, yeah. Okay. But that's, again, through my faith and through my belief again. Which we agree are not reliable yet. No. Not by a worldly perspective. Okay. Yet again, come back to that fact of by an intellectual... intellectual meaning worldly interchangeable, usually, in those terms. Would anything get... and I'll ask this long-class question, is there anything that exists that would actually make it be preferable than the method that you're using to reach the same conclusion? I mean, if God showed up, like, so something we talk about in church, we just talk about, in church we talk about would your faith change? Would you believe in God anymore if he showed up right now in this room and you saw him? Right? Yeah. So like, if he just showed up in the middle of the church service and I was like, wow, that's God. Yeah. Would my faith change anymore? And I don't think it would, no. No. My understanding of him might change, but my faith in his, like, existence, no, would not change. Okay. Do you think faith is the best way to come to a conclusion on something like that? Um, I think on a spiritual, for spiritually, I think faith is the only real way faith, and then you can back it up with some information, but it's not going to be 100% like, so one of the big arguments that happens a lot is evolution versus creationism, correct? There are people who believe in evolution that also believe that it was created by God. Yeah, no, and I believe in some of evolution. I don't believe in human evolution from AIDS, but I did, obviously, um, like natural selection, and that's real. There's, like, I agree. I just think that it's God working. Okay. And, like, that's how he decided to create things. Um, and that's with, rather than science being the enemy of faith, of Christianity or the enemy of religion, which is how a lot of people end up looking at it, I look at it more of science is the, it's just cool to look at and cool for me to understand, because that's helping me understand by understanding how it works. Because how he works. So you think four years from now, if you continue on the path that you're on right now, you would, your confidence would be stronger, or you're starting to get more improved? Yeah. So I guess you could say, in that perspective, you could say that I'm not at a hundred percent, but it's, or from that, it would be more like I'm a hundred percent right now, I'm gonna be a hundred ten percent then. What do you think, which is not, what do you think your future self, this guy likes extending it out. What do you think your future self would be able to come back and tell you what you might not want? Like say there's a time machine in the future, we've developed two years from now. Decade later, your future self comes to you and he's like, That's the fun part and I don't know. Okay. Because I'm going to, I still have to learn those things to be able to understand them. So I think, Where do you think you would be? Future me. Yeah. Your future will come to you. Actually, I have a lot more life experience. Yeah. So if we'll be able to say, maybe he's married or maybe he has other things that have happened that expose more of who you are. Yeah, yeah. And then that leads him to understand, oh, you need to do this differently. I don't know exactly what this would be. Would that mean that you're at least open to be an idea that you don't have to complete? No, I'm not. And I never will be until I have it. So you'd be a little more open minded? The whole point of this is, to listen. So I'm not going to close minded to not listen to anybody else's idea. I am closed minded to the idea of changing the basic belief that Jesus Christ came and saved me. Can I ask you one last question? Yeah. There's a lot of people here. Yeah, I also have an exam. Do you care if your beliefs are true? Yes. If they weren't what you currently hold, would you want to know? What do you mean by what you currently hold? If what you knew right now wasn't true. And any of that? I don't know to what extent it's out of sight. Would I still hold it if it was not true? Would you at least want to know that, hey, I don't have the answer. I'm not following this up like I sell. I don't have any books in my back. You don't have to defend yourself. I understand. I'm wondering, is what you believe wasn't true? Would you at least want to know that? Yeah. How would you know it if you're a hundred percent current? I don't know. Don't leave it. If you see me around, I'd love to keep talking to you. Yeah, it was good. Yeah. Feel free, if you want, you can take a car. I do conversation like this all the time.