 I think the question of how do we look at decarbonisation both from an energy systems and a land perspective we have a phenomenal panel I'm going to first ask Claude now to join me Claude is the executive vice president for sustainable development at EDF, which is One of the largest utilities not just in Europe, but in the world Claude if you would like to take any chair Maybe in the middle in the middle. That would be great Next we have Chad Frischman who's the vice president and research director of project drawdown Please look if you'd like to please sit down Then we have Chris Matai who is a researcher at the international institute for sustainable development international relations in France Chris and we will be joined shortly by Kate Gurry who's the head of regulatory affairs of of NL So let me place myself here The the question we've had that we've had a lot of discussion around energy decarbonisation and it's it's great to see that countries are Really stepping up action. There's a clarity of vision of what needs to be done And though we are too slow and too late out of the blocks the trend the train is definitely moving in the right direction Something that is becoming increasingly clear though is the question of how do we how do we relate to the land use side of it? Itself a big a big question. We'll talk about that But also how much of the decarbonisation has to come from the land-based sector through negative emissions So what's the relationship between a decarbonisation on the energy side and and the land use side? And so we'd like to we'd like to take a look at ask our panelists to Take a look at decarbonising the energy system with a particular focus on the implications for the land use sector Claude if I may ask you to to kick us off So I will be first on that This is a big issue. This is a big issue if you just think of the carbonizing being carbon neutral by 2050 I don't think we are able to do it if we are not systemic. It cannot be just one sector It has to be something we are Doing together. So yes, I do believe that the question of land use is is in the middle land use in one hand And also, how are we using the land? She's not exactly exactly the same When you you ask me to join this panel, I thought that maybe I could just give an example An example that We are now Taking as a as a as a goal As it was announced at our general assembly we are to develop in France 30 gigawatts of solar panels So I'm sorry because I will I will take European measurement, but that means that at least we need 30 30,000 Hector to do it But if we are serious, it's quite doubly as a company We we built a lot of hydro power. That means that we are an owning a lot of land, but it will not be enough if we are not thinking on how we are doing that from the land use Perspective, I think we will miss something if you just think of this question of developing 30 gigawatts in 15 euros You have to think on what sort of solar panel we will have I will say that we have three part of it They are not equal, but there are there are different way to take them in the car The first will be to develop self-consumption We need people to have solar panel on their roof because it will reduce the impact on the soul and and on biodiversity That means that we will have certainly to find a way to to develop our subsidiary which is already a leader in in in that and having a lot of Debend I will say that people are They don't have to have make any publicity people want self-consumption. So we have to build on self-consumption And the and the other hand you will have big big forms solar farms But we cannot build them everywhere. We have to be careful about What we called artificialization of soil that means that we have to reduce it because we cannot afford in in Europe Is not a u.s. We have not that much Room in in the country to to develop this sort of thing. So if we have to use I will say still artificialized So all to work with with people that are owning that long so that mean that We will have to to develop strong relationship with a culture We will have to develop strong relationship with by movies NGO working on by your diversity Because if we are not there will not be we are not to be able to develop this sort of of solar panel So that's me that of course we will have also to work on Public acceptance and that means that we will develop more than we do to their crowdfunding. No or no Not because it will be Money that will be cheap. It will be money to be much more Expensive that the money we can get on the market But it will be a way to build public acceptance that makes the people part of it because as a company and I Want you to have that in mind as a company. We were the one that builds the electricity sector in France That means that we are in junior we think we do it and we deliver electricity. This is done This is not the way thing can be do today. We have to work in another way. This way has to be more collective more Systemic as I mentioned we have to take an account Different way people wants to manage their energy and how we can enable that Which make a huge huge difference on how it so this is also a way to leverage a change within the company because we are to build This plan with with people. We are not to be the owner of every plant We are not to be part of everything. We were just want to be the one that enabled this 30 gigawatts in France To to to finish I would like to highlight also one point which is biodiversity This is also a way a question about setting carbon and sequestration carbon. We need to work on biodiversity We know that we are able to build plants that are able to to protect biodiversity but at the same time we dream to be Positive on biodiversity that means that we believe that this sort of approach has to take into account a development on biodiversity on Under on the place where we want to build the solar power And the third part of solar panel will be something with middle-sized panel And maybe it could be interesting with we develop a An example which is for us An innovation We develop what we called. I will try to translate in English. It's ombrella in French It means it is shadow Shadow roof that you can put on a on a parking spot And so you have you have the sort of PV on the on the roof and you have your car just behind which is Which is charging and of course we developed that on in one of the nuclear plant in the south of France And of course people find that very fun. So this is a Way to utilize solar and Taking in account that we don't want to develop Solar PV everywhere and without taking in account this big issue of artificialization of of solar which is really a difficult one for us for us in front So I pointed this this this example because this is for me something. This is our future We have to have a systemic approach on each and every question regarding energy and especially Regarding sustainable energy if we want to develop clean energy We have to do it Having in mind that we have not only to do what I was mentioning about Land, but we have also to think That we need to develop maybe an industry which is European on on solar PV And that means that we have to think more globally. This is what what companies have to do today They are not only delivering Partially electricity for in our case it has something which is much more global and at the same time Much more scrutinized by people. So we have to to to be able to not only to deliver but to prove it So it is a transforming time for us. It is an amazing an amazing one And we are very excited with that But it has a lot of social Consequences that we have to take an account also for our people. So this is really All-round so when you mentioned land, it's just a good example on how we are to transform our industry to a north to an industry which is much more closer, I think to to the Community well in which we are operating that it was by the past It's a different way for us. We explained that to our people saying this is a different way to be a Service public because we love that word in France being being in charge of something which is Needed by by people and they're very delivering it in time. So this is very interesting This is a new and land definitely will help us to Reinvent our relationship with the community and the territory Thank you. So this clearly is an illustration of how in the land constrained Environment we even even seemingly simple solutions like so no panels need to be looked at from a much broader perspective chat Project drawdowns and please tell us a little bit about project drawdown you're working on on solutions finding solutions and tell us Little bit about the types of solutions you're seeing in the space in particular. How do you how do you look at? The spillover how do you make sure that something that looks like a good solution really is a good solution that doesn't have unintended consequences elsewhere? Right well first of all we collect a lot of data and information on these solutions from from all over the world and we Assemble them in our models and as we conduct our research and ensure that when we're looking at different types of solutions that they are We evaluate all the different potential cascading benefits and positive external externalities and negative externalities But that's that's kind of just a quick answer to that but Since I have slides, I'm gonna actually stand up if that's okay. So I can just take a look and a little bit of a presentation. So Thank you. So Drawdown You may not have ever heard of that word before but it's something that you might ought to know Drawdown is a new way of thinking about and acting on global warming It's a goal for a future that we want a future where reversing global warming is possible Drawdown is that point in time when atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases begin to decline on a year-to-year basis It's that point when we take out more greenhouse gases than we put into Earth's atmosphere Now climate change is a concern for us all But climate change is really an expression of the problem Climate change is the feedback of the system of the planet telling us what's going on The problem is global warming provoked by the increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases So how do we solve the problem? How do we begin to reverse global warming? The only way we know how is to actually draw down to avoid putting greenhouse gases up and to pull down What's already there? Now I know given the current situation that sounds impossible But humanity already knows what to do. We have the technologies and practices that can achieve Drawdown and that's already happening What we need to do is accelerate implementation and to change the discourse from one of fear and confusion which only leads to apathy To one of understanding and possibility and therefore opportunity. So I work for organization called project drawdown And together with a team of researchers and writers from all over the world. We've mapped measured and detailed 100 solutions to reversing global warming 80 already exists today And when taking together those 80 can achieve drawdown 20 are coming attractions. These are solutions on the pipeline and when they come offline will speed up our progress and These do these solutions do one or more of three things replace Existing fossil fuel based energy energy generation with clean renewable sources reduced consumption through technological efficiency and behavior change and To biosequester carbon and plants biomass and soils through a process. We all know from grade school the magic of photosynthesis It's through a combination of these three mechanisms that drawdown becomes possible So how do we get there? Well, this is a list of the top 20 solutions to reversing global warming Now it's a eclectic list. I know from onshore wind turbines to educating girls from plant-rich diets to rooftop solar technology So let's break it down a little bit to the right of the slide. You'll see figures and gigatons That's a billion tons That represents the total equivalent carbon dioxide reduced from the atmosphere when the solutions are implemented globally over a 30 year period Now when we typically think about Climate solutions we think about electricity generation We think about renewable energy as the most important set of solutions But the first thing to notice about this list is that only five of the top 20 solutions relate to electricity What surprised us honestly was that eight of the top 20 solutions relate to the food system Now the climate impact of food may come as a surprise But what these results show us is that the decisions we make every day on what we produce Purchase and consume are perhaps the most important contributions every individual can make every day to reversing global warming But here's what's also quite interesting Our research shows that when we implement all these solutions as a system We would produce enough food on current farmland to feed the world's growing population a healthy nutrient rich diet now until 2050 and beyond Without cutting down any new forest the solutions to reversing global warming are the same solutions to food insecurity and land management is also incredibly important how we manage our how we protect our Forests wetlands and how we manage currently degraded land Safeguards expands and creates new carbon sinks that directly draw down carbon This is draw down in action every year as carbon dioxide is removed from the atmosphere Through photosynthesis which converts carbon dioxide to plants biomass and soil organic carbon When we take land and food together 12 of the top 20 solutions to reversing global warming relate to how and why we use land this fundamentally shifts Traditional thinking on climate solutions Now some solutions that don't often get talked about I'm going to mention them here It's they are actually very much related to energy and food Let me skip ahead to educating girls and family planning By providing men and women the right to choose when how and if To raise a family through reproductive health clinics and education access to contraception and freedom devoid of persecution Can reduce the estimated global population by 2050 that reduction In population means a reduction demand for electricity food buildings and Every other resource all the energy and emissions that are associated With that higher demand are reduced by providing the basic human right to choose when how and if to raise a family But family planning can't happen without equal quality of education to girls currently being denied access so what we actually did here is take a little bit of liberty because the impact of universal education and Family planning resources are inextricably intertwined. So we cut it right down the middle But what this shows is when you combine educating girls and family planning Resolving the gender inequity is the number one solution to reversing global warming Reducing an estimated 120 gigatons over 30 years so one last point because I think it's on everybody's mind how much this is all going to cost according to our analysis Sorry, I'm running out of a bit of a time according to our analysis this would cost an approximately 29 trillion dollars over 30 years That's roughly about a trillion dollars a year now, it's a lot But when we think about global GDP of Being over 80 trillion every year It's really not that much It doesn't cost that much to be implementing these solutions and the estimated savings is over 74 trillion dollars over double the costs That's a net savings of 44 trillion dollars So drawdown is possible We can do it if we want to it's not going to cost that much and the return on that investment is huge But we need all 80 solutions to get there The top solutions will take us far along that pathway, but there's no such thing as a small solution We need all 80 But here's the great thing We want these solutions we want to implement these solutions whether or not global warming was even a problem Because they all have cascading benefits to human and planetary well-being Renewable energy generation results in clean abundant access to energy for all a Plant-rich diet reduced food waste results in a healthy global population with enough food and sustenance Family planning and educating girls is about human rights and gender equality. It's about economic improvement My freedom of choice is about justice regenerative agriculture Managed grazing civil pasture agroforestry This restores soil health and productivity Improves water retention benefits smallholder farmers and large farming operations alike and brings carbon back to the land Protecting our ecosystems protects biodiversity and safeguards planetary health and the oxygen that we breathe It's tangible benefits to all species is incalculable so it's possible to achieve drawdown but It's gonna take a lot of action and work at a global scale to achieve it But here's the welcome surprise when we implement all of these solutions We actually shift the way we do business for one that is inherently exploitative and extractive To a new normal that is by nature restorative and regenerative We've done a great job in implementing the sustained or starting to think about and creating a pathway for the sustainable development goals We also need to think what's beyond what's beyond sustainability and Start thinking about regeneration Because along the way we can also reverse global warming Thank you. Thank you very much. Very interesting Chris. You've been working for many years now on Deep decarbonization pathways. What can you explain to us what they are and What some of the lessons are that you've learned from your work in Canada and around the world? Sure, okay. Well sounds like everyone can hear me here So I've been Looking at this for a little over 20 years at this point and I'm an energy economist by training And the subject has forced me to look a little bit more broadly think a little bit more bring a few more things And and I'm really happy I'm going behind Chad here because the what I'm going to talk about is kind of it's going to weave in in and out of His results and what I'm going to focus more on is how do we get this done? What what are the policies we need what one of the things they're going to push us in into a different system from where we are right now? So to I'm gonna there's three phases to what I'm going to talk about I've got some bad news I've got some good news and more bad news But then there's a fourth phase which is of some thoughts of where we go on from here Now the bad news is that we're all right. We climate change is not something speculative. It's I'm from Canada In the northern latitudes, it's plainly obvious. It's happening from British Columbia. My province has been on fire for two summers We have a family cottage. My wife has a family cottage in Nova Scotia. Literally the ocean is eating the property. Okay So this is this is something that's extremely personal and real to me So I've seen one in my lifetime It's gone up one C in my children's lifetime in my children's lifetime It's likely to go up to one two or three even three C if we don't change course However, there is hope. There is structural policy hope here The Paris agreements aspirations are that we hold the increase well below two C heading towards one and a half However, the means of the Paris agreement, which is the nationally determined contributions Which are actually supposed to be actualized through national policies if they were all perfectly Implemented and stacked up would get us to about plus 2.7 C So we need a debt. We need a grand tightening of policy ambition if we're going to match our rhetoric here So that's a bad. That's the first wave of bad news. The good news is As Chad was just talking about we know how to do this There are technological and process options to basically carbonize everything the human being One way or the other Between bill transport buildings industry. I've spent two years working on how do you decarbonize steel cement chemicals? What have you? What and and land use and two weeks ago in San Francisco at the global climate actions summit SDSN held their low emissions solutions conference. I'm going to kind of weave in through some of their results To quote dr. Margaret Tarn. She was one of the organizers of that conference for any of our climate goals We must not only eliminate emissions from the energy system. We must repair Preserve and enhance the land emissions sink and what that means is is that we have to completely change how we relate to? The to the global land base we have to allow it to come back into its more natural mode of Taking down carbon from the atmosphere not putting it up not putting it up up into the atmosphere It's about a third of what's added into the atmosphere each year at this point in time now You've probably heard a lot of stuff about energy as as agreed I was saying and you know the first The first and easiest thing is to be more efficient if you want We've got to be dramatically more efficient at least 50% across the board and it's not just a traditional way of thinking about efficiency But it's moving more towards a principle what we call circular economy So it's you know, we design things better We design them to last longer when they do finally wear out We design them so that they can be recycled and the materials can go back through the system much more easily We very much have a system right now where we take raw materials. We put it through a productive system We contaminate those materials in the process and then we're living with the we're living with waste It's just not that useful afterwards. So that hope that whole system has to change But more than that and this is where things get this that's the easy stuff dealing with the energy system material system We need to learn as a global society to manage land like currently We're still living with a very old paradigm of land where it you know nature gets torn out You you move in you build something there and that's that's how you adjust it and there's still this concept of wilderness It's not thought of basic. It's our basic. It's it's a support system that keeps us all alive one one way or the other Yeah, and this to be honest I think this is going to be one of the great tasks one of the great occupations of Basically from 2050 on basically out into foreseeable human history It's a closed planet and the people who will be doing that will be will be very up high up in our organizational food chains Now and this is this is where things get a little dicey and with more uncertainty Given how much carbon we've dumped into the atmosphere and has been taken up in the oceans and resulting in acidification Is we're going to have to engage some technological negative emissions processes And this is where the nexus with the rain gets really tight in that the one process We know will work is that we burn woody biomass We take that waste and put it underground using carbon capture and storage it works But it's going to come directly into conflict with our food needs with our biodiversity needs what have you and how we balance that Nobody's done that before we know it can be done, but nobody's gotten into the deep politics. How do you how do we do that? So the bad news again more Is we're having like we've got all these options We're just having a lot of difficulty implementing policy to drive to drive them to make them happen And frankly, I think it's because we're approaching it from an ad hoc perspective Focusing on costs and not benefits anybody starts talking about climate policy cap and trade Oh, it's going to be half a percent of two GDP 1% 2% of GDP We're not focusing on the benefits more than enough studies have come out that just the air quality benefits alone Will pave for a limit for cleaning up the energy system for cleaning up the transport system and To great positive benefit to people mainly in the developing world mainly in large cities We're going to need to focus at the national state and city levels We're going to have to create realistic transition plans and full some integrated policy packages that work with Not against national development goals. The moment climate policy comes in collision with economic development Climate policy loses. This is what happens everywhere That the two things have to come together and we need to reframe climate policy Not as at this environmental add-on but security. It's a secure. It's it is a security issue Taken to its nth degree given the water land agriculture and like agriculture impacts of going to to see and beyond It's likely to generate the largest refugee crisis in human history. It makes it'll make Syria look Like something on TV. Okay And so it needs to come right to the top. It can't be the fifth and ninth thing that we consider And frankly, it's not right rocket science, but real hard serious real politic work So in order to get this done every jurisdiction needs to declare itself for net zero emissions Not minus 50% not minus 80% but net zero and by 2060 to 2070 within the lifetimes of most people in this room It needs to be something that we will all see for it to be effective And there are places that are doing this California brought in their executive order a GCAS New Zealand has announced this and It needs not just to be a goal But something that is produced with it is pursued with zeal. Okay, so New Zealand Sorry, Costa Rica the United Kingdom New York New England the C40 cities They're all they've all brought in thoughtful policy packages to bring on physical decarbonization Now these policy packages they're every it's going to be different for everywhere. They're gonna have to be effective at what they do They're gonna have to use the least caught least resources possible, which is why economists push carbon pricing But again carbon pricing sometimes not politically effective which pushes us back under to regulations But most important and this is this is where the consideration of the national political context comes in They have to edit these policies have to anticipate the needs the potential Opposition of the actors who need to actually implement those actions and might block it if you don't think about who this is going to hurt They're gonna come they're gonna stop you they will and I've literally seen almost three cap and trade systems in Canada fail Because the the industries that were most effective and they were not that big it from employment level even out Even a GDP level they came out hard because they felt threatened if this is gonna work They have to be in the conversation to begin with and they're gonna need the help with innovation and a jet and transition In order such that they don't they come out full in opposition against you So you're gonna have to bring in your governments your communities indigenous peoples firms Labor environmental organizations civil society. They all have to have a buy-in to the transition plan Again, we're gonna need a whole suite of things. It's gonna depend on the context regulations carbon pricing It's good. It depends on the actor for Innovation responds really well to pricing firms respond well pricing household Households and the transport and building sector don't you might as well just put a regulation on the sectors because you could put carbon pricing to the roof And they will not change And you're gonna need institutions to support all the above and especially in an oversight institution that measures project progress and adjust policy if necessary Yeah, I'll So anyway to come around to this The net zero goal is fundamentally is fundamental to making this happen and it's being part of the conversation I'm from Canada I'm sure you've heard of our endless discussions about pipelines oil sands What have you and how they've spilled over into the discussion down here, but frankly? I think the reason we've been struggling with Understanding the tris transition away from oil production despite the relatively green nature of our culture is that we haven't been given a Crea a real frame our oil and gas industry which has invaluable Industrial chemical knowledge for the net zero transition it need it needs a clear investment horizon It needs firm regulatory signaling as to what it needs to achieve over the coming decades. So to summarize There are clouds on the horizon, but there's also hope We have lots of examples of good policy occurring around the world things that things that we can copy and experiment with and Despite the clouds we're dealing with a I'm gonna choose to believe and follow that hope. Thank you Thank you so much Chris for weaving all these pieces together. I think that's it's really critical We need the technical solutions that Chad is outlined. We need to think about the trade-offs that Claude has emphasized, but really weave it together not just an analysis But also in a framework for engaging the different partners in in society Katie Gary, thank you so much for braving New York traffic on this day thanks to NO for the partnership in in Developing the low-emission solutions conference you head of regulatory affairs here in North America. What is your perspective on? The question of decarbonizing the energy system and to what extent is a nail considering land use as Part of this strategy to what extent does this play into your day-to-day strategy and operations? So first of all, thank you for having me here Apologies for the delay in my arrival Amtrak and the West Side Highway and NYPD had other ideas on my arrival Yes, I'm Katie Geary. I am head of regulatory affairs in North America for NLX NLX is one of the business lines of NL group that is active here in North America My other job is I am a mom of three young girls Like to mention that my team is actually in the middle of it where the rubber hits the road We handle regulatory advocacy on behalf of NLX at the wholesale level for in federal jurisdiction And at the retail level at state jurisdiction So we are in front of regulatory bodies and agencies arguing for proper energy and environmental policy Where we focus on in an LX is the customer end of the spectrum Just to give you a little bit of background on myself. I've been in the energy industry for about 15 years I started off at an oil company. Some of you may know Hess At the time it was Amarata Hess a while ago I've dealt in all different commodities natural gas electricity fuel oil products and now demand response Which has been the focus of my efforts over the past five years As I said, I'm the head of regulatory affairs for NLX North America But that's actually technically occurring on Monday for the past five years I have been in the same role, but I've been working for a company called and or not We have been the global leader for demand response The reason why I am up on this panel is because of that proliferation of demand response That we have helped incentivize worldwide, but particularly here in North America So what is demand response? What our company does is we work with commercial and industrial customers to accomplish What was just referenced Identifying better processes greater efficiencies new technology that can be utilized at customer sites to better use and Purchase their energy needs Demand response with the capital D and a capital R is a program or service for which our customers get paid To do one of the best things in relieving the stress on the energy grid Which is to turn their electricity off or to turn it to something else? These are typically in situations of emergency or grid stress such as a line tripping or a generator going out such as which Happened several years ago in something called the fuller vortex. Typically. It's been seen as a summer product where system Conditions reach peak conditions over the past several years We have demand response. I should say has been a resource that has led to the Fortunately led to the retirement of some very unnecessary for a inefficient very dirty peaking generation systems across the United States So demand response has been a direct way for customers to engage in the markets and Effectuate change on emissions in the North America. So Why does my description of enter knock and what we do with demand response and what with our customers? Matter for this panel and how does it play into why NLX bought us? And that's one of the questions posed here is does the utility business model need to change? and NL groups purchase of an or not is exactly What needs to happen with the utility business model NL group for those of you who are not familiar My bosses have told me we are the largest utility that you've never heard of We're up here. So now you have heard of us In North America The NLX business line is relatively new. We have been active here for several years as EGP and we are a renewable developer And operator We have wind and solar and hydro assets across North America green powers and a global company But we have a rather healthy footprint in North America We also have a division called thermal generation which has historically housed and L's Fossil units we have self-imposed retirement deadlines on ourselves for coal assets in our fleet Globally And interestingly what we are doing with that thermal business unit is we are replacing it with storage resources They're not thermal But that is what is going to happen in the markets as we evolve away from these thermal resources What do we need in order to move toward renewable resources? Storage is the key when I started in the energy industry 15 years ago One of the reasons I was told the electric market was the way that it was and it wasn't like the natural gas market is because you can't store Electricity it's constantly moving that has changed and that has been a phenomenal technology change that is going to facilitate increased transition over to renewable resources So I said and now Has a mentality toward their utilities. They're very forward-thinking. They recognize that the old system of Lots of wires Distributing power from very large central and often dirty Generation plans is not what is going to happen in the future What we're going to see is a lot more Distributed resources across the system now in the instance of renewable resources such as solar and such as wind which my company does develop Those are wonderful. They're renewable. They're clean an issue for the system operators with those resources is that they are variable They are at times unpredictable Although the ability to predict the output of those resources is increasing the reality is that the wind doesn't always blow and the sun Doesn't always shine so it's been very difficult to integrate those resources into the wholesale energy markets in an effective way from an economic perspective as it pertains to Other generation resources that we may not need anymore, but that are still sticking around The reason why demand response is important It is because it is allowing Customers to meet the variability needs that are occurring on the system from these renewable resources And that is becoming even more possible with the reality of storage And now as I said an L group has a business line focused on storage the idea is it's going to replace our thermal business fleet At an LX and so those are front of meter resources very large where we can store electricity on the system Or in some instances at a solar or at a wind facility, which is phenomenal At a customer level from an LX perspective we view demand response as somewhat of a Gateway drug if you will in the energy industry Customers get paid to reduce or to eliminate their electric consumption That's not political that is a massive economic driver And what we have found with customers is interestingly enough when you pay them to pay attention to their energy consumption They become more engaged they become more intelligent and now they have money that they can reinvest in their companies And they can reinvest in greater energy efficiencies just as to give you an example One cold storage unit customer that we worked with in going into their system and identifying Efficiencies and adjusting when they used their electricity Overall they actually started using more electricity But their costs were going down and they were using at times When the system was less stressed, which is putting less pressure on the dirtier older generation plans so an LX as I said is part of the transitioning business model that an L has worldwide it is taking our internal utility wires and Generation development experience and translating that to the customer level the key Component to all of this is going to be digitization We cannot connect all of these moving pieces and all of this increasing engagement and intelligence at the customer level without the technology to support it and to Communicate that information. I have to tell you that I feel like I'm at a very exciting time in doing What I do in this field as I said I started off working for an oil company I do something very very different now, and it is very exciting. It is very politically driven. It can be at times Very aggressive. There are Incumbent economic and job interests of companies in this country that are real and that do need to be considered And that is why we believe demand response and the utilization of DER's distributed energy resources at customer locations is so key to facilitating the transition over to a low-emissioned world I think I've covered the majority of the topics that I want to cover. Thank you What I what I take away from what really all of you have said is that we have the we have the solutions on the energy side But there clearly are massive design challenges and design in a broader sense of understanding the trade-offs unintended consequences of Getting a pretty a shared political vision and of implementing this challenge even at the business level Let me maybe just in closing just share another design challenge that that we at the SCSN have been working on With Chris we've been fortunate to work on the energy pathways for deep decarbonization There's of course the question of what you do in a land use side Let me just share two two examples that we have encountered this There's one very large country that has recently instituted a large-scale biofuel policy in order to increase Incomes for farmers, but also to reduce greenhouse gas emissions Now you would think that that policy would have been looked at also from a food security perspective from a water perspective from a biodiversity perspective and other Challenges on the land use sector, but that wasn't the case because the country actually lacks the capability to even to us These questions quantitatively into and to see if we do this what might happen? Take another country a very as much smaller country highly developed the country had a very stable land use Management system and all of a sudden I could completely appended Because one of its major bilateral trading partner started to import very large volumes of dairy products So dairy the dairy industry literally exploded and had a lot of massive negative Implications on land use and completely changed their trajectories on on future Emission reductions and I mentioned this because we're doing with Columbia University What would one of the one of the world's leading universities? And this is these are just too often I could I could give many more indications of how we are currently designing and developing Policies at the national level without even a solid understanding a solid Rigorous analysis of what the implications might be we're literally flying blind on some of these things So the solutions are there, but we're just not putting them together and that's why We at the SCSN with many partners have launched a new initiative That's basically the sister initiative to the deep decarbonization pathways project We call it FABO FABO pathways for food agriculture by diversity land use and energy and one of the One of the earliest findings there is that the projected demands on a land sector in terms of negative emissions because you might know That the IPCC pathways the official pathways towards Decarbonization almost all of them assume that the land sector will generate large-scale what's called negative emissions So you grow the trees you cut them down you burn them you sequester the co2 Well, you capture the co2 that comes out of it and you sequestered in the soil So you so you see actually remove co2 from the from the atmosphere and we're seeing No shred of evidence that this is feasible at any significant scale. So that's just another Another indication of another illustration of a kind of complex design challenges that we need to solve and if you're if you're a student Within with the intention of or with an interest in these issues I can really not think of any more exciting field both on the energy side. So the nl nlx and And the experiences from from EDF and others illustrate this but also on the land use system side So we really need to apply a lot more knowledge at these at these challenges We've run a little bit out of time. So we don't have time for for questions I would like to thank the panelists a little heartily for this for this for sharing these these very exciting Experiences and I'm afraid I cannot read what I am supposed to do there now. This is And of course, I would like to would like to welcome professor Jeffrey sacks to join us here on the podium Thank you Thanks to the panel for an absolutely wonderful discussion and we have a very exciting afternoon ahead so please Stay with us and we're going to be hearing from the president of Costa Rica shortly, which will be also a Great benefit for us. I I want to thank all the panelists for the wisdom and Try to summarize very briefly what I think are key key takeaways and key Key points Pointers for us. There's broad agreement. We need to get to net zero greenhouse emissions very soon and Essentially by mid-century. So decarbonizing the energy system and Changing land use patterns. So we get to net zero and perhaps in the future even net negative Shortly is is key and I think broadly agreed second to do that requires two prongs the energy systems change and the land use systems change both of those are Significant transformations they have to be done much faster than what would normally be considered Manageable because our backs are to the wall We've gone on for so long and so slowly in addressing this crisis that in order to honor the They're not even safe limits anymore, but the limits that are at least Potentially manageably manageable The Paris climate agreement targets. We need to move now Absolutely dramatically third These are systems they are not individual items and While there are many individual things that one can do they will only work in the context of systems and One can't even choose from a column individually and say I'll do this this this and this Because the pieces might not fit together or it makes no sense to add up individual items that way in a classic example of this is that you may see sighted many times converting to electric vehicles Doesn't make sense because you actually end up through the electricity generation Generating as much CO2 as you do from an internal combustion engine This is an example of non-systems thinking because we need to convert both to EVs or some equivalent and the Power generation together because that's the combination that gets you down to zero so taking just one item in the column won't answer the question and If you just make a list you'll double count many things also because you'll get more credit Then one deserves because there are many overlaps in individual items that in a systems manner would Not be simply additive so we need systems and I think to make systems change. We need planning Fortunately utilities do planning Politicians don't do planning but utilities do planning and so it's typical for utility to Have to look ahead in 20 years But typically utilities in this country and in most countries have looked ahead only with regard to one item Which is can we meet capacity? Can we meet peak capacity? Can we be reliable without brownouts or blackouts? But that's not the question anymore The question is how do we change the system to meet what will be the needs but with Decarbonization, but that's a planning problem fundamentally. It's not a market problem fundamentally. It's how to implement a system That it can make this work of course, there are companies in the midst of this and They need to make a profit and our utilities Have Even legally scorecards and benchmarking you have to provide the lowest cost Energy and so forth. These are antiquated ideas But they are on the books and so one needs patch ups carbon pricing and other solutions In order to make these systems changes work in an effective manner and this again requires a comprehensive view It also will require a change of the standard operating procedures all Systems have SOPs and SOB's by the way, but they have SOPs They have standard operating procedures and we need to rewrite the rules And that's what nlx was saying right now is you're helping the companies rewrite the rules of how their standard operating Procedures work their business models. It's even more complicated now because the usual assumption that you're either a buyer or a Supplier of energy no longer applies in modern technology You can be on both sides The idea that you have a certain diurnal cycle of energy no longer applies because you can shift forward Or backward during the day with sophisticated Internet of things technologies to be shifting peaks and changing diurnal or even seasonal patterns of energy through smart use One more point that I would say is this planning is more complicated than usual because it needs to be done on a regional scale Even a global scale Regional by that I mean the US cannot solve its energy problem without cooperating with China with Canada and with Mexico The US Northeast requires Canadian hydropower as its best solution. We need high-voltage direct current to carry power from hydro in in Quebec down to the US, but we can also use the same lines to carry excess wind power from the US Northeast to pump hydro storage in Canada the point is Regional integration is key Countries that don't even deal with each other very much right now India and Pakistan if they got together could have hugely beneficial energy systems resolution by joining together China has an even bolder vision, which they call GEI global energy interconnection, which is to connect the whole world's renewable energy Through long-distance low-loss transmission. So I think the point is we need the engineers We need first-class technology. We need planning We need to understand what our specs are of this system Which is to get down to zero by 2050 and then we can put the support structure of pricing and regulation Into that in order to make this work I think I would take that as the gist of what we've heard today as Gito said just now we need students to do the work So all over the world Get out your notebooks get out your computers start making the plans to 2050. Thank you