 Well, hello everyone. Hello world. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on where you're joining us from today. Welcome to Engineering for Change, or E4C for short. Today we're very pleased to bring you the latest in our 2015 webinar series, where we'll focus on the role of technical standards and sustainable energy for all. We developed this webinar with Dr. Priya Ranjan Mishra of Philips India, and Rani Chang of the Global Alliance for Clean Cook Stoves. My name is Yana Aranda, and I'll be the moderator for today's webinar. When I'm not doing this, I work with the American Society of Mechanical Engineers and Engineering for Change as the director of E4C programs. It's a pleasure to see all of you here today. Now, I'd like to take a moment to tell you a bit about today's webinar. One of the global goals for sustainable development is affordable and clean energy. Achieving this goal requires scale-up of and manufacture and distribution of new energy technologies, things like clean cook stoves and BTY growth grids, for example. But not all technology is created equally. Ensuring that new solutions deliver on their promises to improve health, livelihoods, and the environment requires appropriate international standards. In designing those standards, it's critical to consider new approaches and have a deep understanding of market needs. Today, we've invited two advocates in this field to share the impact that standards can and are having on developing countries. Dr. Priya Ranjameshra, who is the principal scientist at Philadelphia, and Greenie Chang, director of standards for the Global Alliance for Clean Cook Stoves. We welcome you both, and thank you for joining us today. Before we get rolling, I'd also like to take a moment to recognize the coordinators of the E4C webinar series. Along with myself, we have Michael Meter of E4C and ASME, Holly Schneider-Brown and Jackie Halladay of IEEE, who are going to be developing and delivering the webinar series. Thank you, team. If any of you out there have questions about the series, or would like to make a recommendation for future topics and speakers, we invite you to contact us via the email address visible on the slide, webinarsandengineeringforchain.org. Now, before we move on to our presenters, I'd like to tell you a bit about E4C and who we are. E4C is a knowledge hub and global community of nearly one million engineers, designers, development practitioners, and social scientists, leveraging technology to solve quality of life challenges based by underserved communities. These can include access to clean water and sanitation, sustainable energy, as we're talking about today, improved agriculture, and more. We invite you to join E4C by becoming a member. 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You can also access recordings of our previous webinars on our YouTube channel. If you're following us on Twitter today, I'd also like to invite you to join the conversation with our dedicated hashtag, hashtag E4C webinars. Our next webinar will be on November 11th at 11 a.m. Eastern Center Time, and our topic will be sustainable design learning and practical applications of whole system thinking. We'll be joined by Jim Core, who is the founder of Core Ecologic and Irvi, set to be the world's greenest car, along with Mike Algarthen and Kay Evans from Autodesk. Check out our E4C professional development page for registration details, and if you're already an E4C member, we'll be sending you an invitation to the webinar directly. And for our friends in Canada, you're likely thinking of this ball at the exact time as remember and stay and at the moment of silence, so please join us after that. So, a few housekeeping items before we get started. Let's see where everyone is from today on our webinar. This would be a good opportunity to also use the tools on the site. So, if you see the chat window, which is located to the bottom right of your screen, please type in your location. I'll get us started, and I'll type in where I'm joining from. New York, New York. Hopefully we have some other folks from the cities here today. I see we have California. All right, we'll be waiting for other folks. I see some people answering in Q&A. We have Philadelphia, Minnesota, Chicago, Charleston, North South Carolina. Please do enter all of your entries into the chat window. We have folks from Thailand. Very exciting. Thank you very much for joining us today from all over the world. It's really great to see you online. If the chat is not open on your screen, you can access it by clicking the chat icon on the top right-hand corner. Any technical questions or administrative problems should go into this chat window, along with your locations as they're coming in. Feel free to send a private chat to the Engineering for Change admin if you have any specific issues. You can also use the chat window to type in any remarks you have. However, during the webinar, please use the Q&A window, which is located below the chat, to type in your questions for the presenter. This will help us manage the questions. Again, if you don't see this, you can access by clicking the Q&A icon at the top right-hand corner of the screen. If you're listening to the audio broadcast and you're encountering any issues, try hitting stop and then start. That might help to resolve them. You may also want to try opening WebEx in a different browser. Following the webinar, to request a certificate of completion showing one professional development hour or PDH for the session, please follow the instructions at the top of the E4C webinars page the URL is listed on the slide. So welcome again, everyone. Thank you for entering your locations. And with that, I'd like to take a minute to introduce our first pre-care, Dr. Priyaranjan Mitra, who holds a PhD from IIT in Delhi. She's about two kilowatts, first first top grid connected to SEMS in India in 1998. A central electronic phone, he has designed off-grid solar solutions and has been deployed across India. Currently, he is a Phillips and he's engaged in the investigation of storage integrated solar DC grids. To his credit, there are more than 30 publications, 15 patent applications, and he has to provide 10 master's thesis. He is a chair and member of multiple IEEE working groups and societies. And in addition to his professional work, he's involved with teaching, management input, and fundraising for SLUM and orphaned children's education. It's a pleasure to welcome you, Dr. Mitra, and we look forward to hearing all about your work. Thank you, Ayna. I'm thankful to Energy Engineering for change for giving me opportunity to share my ideas and works. So I will be emphasizing on the importance of the standards in energy distribution, particularly on micro grids. Just for giving my introduction for my subject, everyone of us are already aware that humanity is facing a lot of different global challenges, and if you see the energy is the most important one because most of the global challenges can be enabled to solve with energy input. So for having the energy available to all the people of the World United Nations Foundation has come out a program, sustainable energy for all. So in that 26 founding members have joined, and it's called Beyond the Grid Program so that no one will be leave behind. And through that, poverty, exclusion, and inequality could be reduced by five transformational shifts. That is electricity, irrigation, transportation, roads, ports, and telecommunications, but you see most important is the energy which will enable all the other transformational shifts. In this slide also, just you see that at least 200 units of electricity annually is needed to change the form, low quality of life to higher quality of life. So how to get to that level in the shortest possible time? So we have, it's the micro grid concept which can be, is scalable, time to deployment is short, it is efficient, reliable because it's local, and it's very easy to install in remote areas. And even in developing, developed country, also US and Japan, they have now increased interest in micro grids because of climatic changes and terrorist threat. The micro grid industry is getting propelled by the latest trends like community solar projects are coming. There are a lot of crowd funding for energizing villages in India, remote area of India, Africa. There are a lot of frequent blackouts happening even in the grid connected villages and towns. There is a resource diversity and rapid, as we know, rapid changing climate issue. DC micro grids on the other hand are also becoming popular in comparison to AC micro grids as more and more appliances are now becoming DC and solar efficiency is 10 to 15 percent higher. Further integration of batteries which is also DC is enabling moving the market towards DC micro grids. This is the trends you can see across the world, more and more solar buildings are embracing solar technology. There are various kinds of DC power architecture, one simple of AC system I have given just for comparison. You can call that small DC UPS as a nano grid or micro grid. And in the below it's the simplest micro grid which is shown with multiple energy source and multiple load. These are the simplest applications of micro grids. In this slide you may be seeing that the whole system has become very complex. So you have a micro grid which is connected to grid and lots of different type of energy sources. So you should be thinking that to connect all those things control the power flow back and forth you need a lot of communication power protection and power control all those things. And these need various kinds of rules. So what are the barriers which is stopping or restricting the growth of the micro grid? One is that especially in DC micro grids. One is myths and reality of safety hazards. Options of standards from definition to deployment. Different DC grid voltage push from different application and manufacturer. And then there is a different market size is also not right now available because systems are in evolution phase. Options of standards but from definition I want to say that micro grid sometimes we refer to very isolated small cluster of forms energy supply as a micro grid and many times a big campus like the big university campuses which has their own DC sets or their own wind forms. They also form a micro grid. So the exact definition is not there where we should call nano grid where we should micro grid should be connected to how it should it will be hybrid grid when it is connected to the main grid. So these are the essence of even definition is not there. So here I have you can go through the slides after that but I am just coming out with whenever we have a discussion in any talks with the people, experts then they always question if there is a DC and DC is more dangerous. But you can see the last later of the things the hard factor F applies DC the same way as AC. So whatever happens with the AC current same happens with the DC current. So if you see the upper and below the two curves are there and in both the curves are there is a comparison of effect on the human body by AC current and DC current. And in this case you can see that DC is slightly less dangerous than AC. So that meets the DC is more dangerous than AC is also not true. Similarly if you go to what should be the impedance for in non-conducting environment so that is also same for both AC and DC. Similarly there is the issue of arcing in the especially when you break a DC power there is an issue of arcing. So nowadays if you see the whole thing concept is changing conventional switches are not there because most of the buildings or homes are now controlled with remote apps and all those things luminous are now fitted with present sensor, daylight and temperature sensors. So if the temperature rise or fire something happens it will automatically it will switch off appliance including luminaries participate in demand response and our network so they automatically whenever there is a shortage of power they reduce the things. So and plus if you see that DC power architecture can also avoid the switching so you can have semiconductors and breakers or you can have AC power circuit on the AC side you can have AC circuit so there are various arrangements which you can mitigate electric fire also. Similarly if you see there are a lot of DC voltages from USB best charging or lighting system to very high plus minus 790 volt systems are also proposed. So it's very important which system should be applicable to which kind of application otherwise it's very difficult to get right efficiency figures and right safety standards. So what is standard do so by adhering to standard one is the consumer and the government body is very sure confident about the product it is reliable and it is adhering to certain norms. So and if those things are earlier shorted out then that becomes fundamental building blocks for product development it is inversely understood. Third point of the standards is important because of interconnectivity two products from two different manufacturers you can interconnect they can talk to each other so interoperability all those things is possible otherwise there will be issue in the future if one manufacturer stop producing or goes out of the market then you cannot replace that product and the whole system of your microgrid will not function. So that kind of situation we should not land in that kind of situation that's why standards are very much essential. There are a lot of European Commission which is addressing right now DC system. European Commission has a low voltage directive US National Electric Code has come so that's in 2014 they have included DC grid IEC is also working next week itself IEC is organizing first LVDC conference at Delhi I am also participating there so European Committee has another standardization body so IEEE is also working on that Immersion Alliance is working on 24 volt and 380 volt and we have in India we are working off with the IEEE industry connection program. I have listed a lot of AC DC standards which was already available for AC DC both or DC alone those standards can be used by manufacturer or system designer to develop DC specific right products so you will see there are a lot of standards for DC systems generally people think that where is the standards the standards are not available so standards are there it may be possible for a particular product standards may not be there it will take time IEC is working on that but you can always if you are in early in the product development you can always refer to some of the standards which is already published so these are the standards on power on Ethernet which is also IEEE standard so you can also refer to and there is another 60 watt power of Ethernet on four cable pairs which is right now in the draft stage so again I am in processing on the why global standard is needed because standardization is borderless and evolution of traditional country does model for standard development to market driven models because every country have their own standards it is difficult to have the world market and if the world market will not be there free flow from one place to another then efficiency and because optimization will not be possible so there is a need for global standards and that will is for economic growth and it will be societal benefits now I am coming to the last part of that market size of the microgrid which was 4.3 billion in 2013 it will be reaching around more I think now more than 20 billion by 2020 and India has taken ambitious target of adding 100 gigawatt by 2020 and I hope significant portion of that will be coming from microgrid so on the conclusion DC microgrid is need of the hour electric shock safety issue is similar for AC and DC electric fire due to arching spectrum is limited with new control schemes and production devices the standards are needed to build confidence among people and government to deploy for system evolution of market looks very promising thank you so much now I am thank you we are definitely going to come back and explore some questions around DC microgrid standards at the end of the presentation so for all the attendees feel free to type in your questions in the Q and A window and we will go ahead and address them towards the end now we are going to move from DC microgrid to talk a little bit about cook stoves and the role of standards we are going to introduce Irene Chang who works together with the global network of testing experts to improve the evaluation and communication of stove performance and quality as the chairperson of the technical committee for clean cook stoves and clean cooking solutions she facilitates multiple stakeholder groups to develop and implement standards, regulation and labeling she also oversees the alliance's efforts to increase performance, technology and fuel opportunities Rene has earned her Ph.D. in Biological and Medical Informatics from the University of California San Francisco and holds a Bachelor of Science in Computational Biology from Brown University it's my pleasure to welcome Rene who is dialing in I believe from Guana so over to you Rene I want to make sure my phone is still okay you sound great okay sounds good I want to be able to join all of you for this webinar thanks to the Engineering for Change team for organizing this and bringing this together I think as Dr. Mishra had described in his presentation there are many opportunities for standards to really help build markets for a lot of these energy technologies so standards in the cook stoves and fuel sector have been critical for us and so today I'm happy to share our experiences our progress and also some of our lessons learned as well before I get into that in more detail I wanted to start by introducing the issue that we're working on addressing so 3 billion people in the world use traditional stoves open fires and solid fuels this is 40 percent of the world's population and what this means is people are exposed to a lot of smoke from these fires for cooking and it leads to over 4 million deaths each year and then a whole host of other illnesses related to the amount of smoke that cooks around the world are breathing in it's also an environmental issue with over 500 million tons of non-renewable wood fuel consumed each year in developing countries the greenhouse gas emissions are from traditional stoves and fuels is equivalent to 170 million passenger vehicles so there's quite a lot of opportunity if we can improve technologies and fuels for cooking there are potentially great benefits for health and for the environment as also generating new income opportunities for people around the world they're coming in a little oddly on this slide I apologize for that but I wanted to take a moment and introduce the glow glow lines for clean cook stoves we have a public-private partnership with about 1,300 partners around the world we're all working together to take a market-based approach to build a sustainable market for cook stoves and fuels that can save lives improve livelihoods empower women and protect the environment we have three pieces to the strategy one is to strengthen supply and the opposite side which is not coming through on this slide I apologize is enhance demand from the consumer side and the manufacturer and producer side and as well creating an enabling environment for these markets to grow and that includes advocacy, policy as well as things like standards and testing now there are quite a number of cook stoves and fuels alternatives to the traditional stoves and fuels I've included some icons of the wide variety of options here but if we're really aiming to build a sustainable market for cook stoves and fuels that will have an impact on health and environment we need to answer these questions and be able to answer these questions how can we clearly evaluate and communicate the performance and potential impacts once we understand that how can we drive the cook stoves and fuels sector towards better and better options over time and of course standards is the answer to that that's how we address those two questions and more specifically for the different audiences that we're interested in for the consumers and users standards provide consistent and clear information that helps them make informed choices and purchases for designers and manufacturers standards are a way to affirm their product quality and it's a way to drive innovation and increase the competition in the market for national governments for donors, investments big implementation programs standards are a way to be clear about what policies and investments people are making but also drive the market to products with higher performance better safety as well as social and livelihood impacts as well and then broadly thinking about the thousands of partners that are working together standards provide common terminology for expanding trade so that you know when someone in one country says one thing and wants to export into another country there's some commonality but also flexibility as well for national priorities and that's really the next slide the goal for developing standards we often hear international standards and we think everything must be explicitly outlined and specified but that's not the case here it's usually not the case and so what we're looking at here is how do we develop standards that achieve both international comparability as well as local adaptability international comparability helps trade and collaboration and local adaptability makes sure it's relevant to the variety of cooking practices around the world as well as different goals different priorities that people may have and then at the international level things that can help comparability are metrics, guidelines from the method reporting requirements and these two sides of standards fit together in order to create something that's useful and impactful so what have we done in terms of standards development has partnered with ISO where ISO brings the process and the experience in developing standards in hundreds of other areas the global alliance we're supporting the standards development we're helping to bring people together for the discussion and really it's our partners working together that are developing and approving the standards and this is something that's critical to standards development it's not something that's imposed from any single organization it's something that is built up by the community so back in 2012 we came together and developed an international workshop agreement which is an interim set of guidelines this was done through a combination of webinar discussions and a three-day workshop meeting that brought people together and that was something that met the immediate need but given the timing it wasn't a complete solution at that time so what we've done is continued to work on improving standards and we launched a full-on ISO technical committee in 2013 and that that work is continuing and ongoing and I'll talk a little bit more about that as well so going back to this international and national collaboration for a minute this slide outlines the path that we're taking in order to have international and national standards work together and so at the international level working on resolving technical challenges bringing the best methodology together and at the national level that's where adaptation to local priorities and practices happens and that's where implementation enforcement happens and so you can see we're kind of going back and forth between at the international level resolving the technical challenges adapting them, learning the lessons going back to the international level improving things in the international standards and then going back to the national level for adaptation and implementation so just to give a little bit more detail on this international workshop agreement that I mentioned this is a common framework for evaluating stoves and fuels across four dimensions efficiency and fuel use total emissions indoor emissions and safety the reason these are kept separate is because different groups may have different priorities so we wanted people to be able to clearly pick which indicators mattered to most of them and then also there's a tiered framework that allows people to focus on whether where on the spectrum of performance they want to aim for it and it's always a tension and a balance between wanting to aim high but also being realistic to what's achievable given the current state of the market and so this framework is really designed to provide flexibility and so the ongoing work to build off the international workshop agreement or the IWA is happening in ISO TC285 and the key stat that I wanted to highlight is a little hard to read but what's really unique about TC285 within the ISO world is that we have the highest percentage of developing country participation so this is a standard effort that's being led by developing countries so we have 40 countries that are participating and observing as well as several external liaison organizations working together and I think this work is really a great example for developing country leadership in standard development especially for a lot of these newer technologies that are specifically addressing the challenges and opportunities in developing countries. The ISO work proceeds through a number of different stages and here's an update on where we are so we're currently working on drafts that we expect to complete within the next few months and that's done by a core set of working group members at the international level and then the next phase is then to go bring it back to the national level and get the input from different countries to address the national needs and so this is a sense of how we balance both getting the work done and a working group but then allowing opportunity for input from many different countries. These last few slides we're talking about developing standards defining the methods, the indicators and that's the IWA and TC285 and looking forward we also want to start thinking about implementing the standards putting the documents to use with financial incentives labeling program with testing different policies and regulations certification and of course enforcing of any policies in labeling efforts as well as awards to highlight innovations and progress against the standards. So a couple of options these are some examples from class and energy efficiency consulting group based in Washington DC they've pulled together a couple of examples of different types of labels that we are currently considering for the cookstokes and fuel space so one option is comparative labels that would have different tiers of performance it would allow people to compare different products and it typically displays more information whereas endorsement labels there's just a specific set level does the product meet it or not it's a little bit more simple and so right now we're currently working in six countries to evaluate some of these labeling options other options as well in order to create the past other awards for initiatives that we're currently working on developing. Another another thing that is related to all of this is we can have standards we can have the testing data but if it's not shared and used then there's a limit to how influential the standards can be and so the Global Alliance has also worked to develop a database of cookstove and fuel products that includes the specifications things like price size how many people how much food can be cooked on the stove as well as performance across indicators like efficiency emission safety and so this is something that's driven by partners submitting stoves and fuel information and test data and then what that allows the community to do is to understand what is the current performance compared to the options as well as to facilitate a lot of the standards development and implementation work more broadly and finally to wrap things up we are in order to address the health and environmental issues from traditional stoves and fuels we want to drive the market towards better and better options of course we need to keep an eye on affordability and usability of the products but performance also matters standards and labeling there are a number of different actors that can play a role in driving the market towards better and better products so government can set minimum acceptable performance levels donors can do that as well for funding eligibility innovation is integrated in this because standards sets the goal and then innovation helps advance the market towards the goal to cook stoves and fuels companies can base their decision on the performance and the potential impacts especially impact investors and then consumers can become more aware and be able to choose products based on labels and so it's this ecosystem that we're working on building that is centered on a foundation of standards and finally I want to thank the people around the world who are working together on this we have dozens of people from at least as many countries who are really sharing their concerns their ideas listening to all of the perspectives and really trying to create a robust and flexible framework to support the cook stoves and fuels market so thanks to all of you guys for joining this webinar and I'll turn it back to Iona for Q&A. Thank you so much Aini that was fantastic we really appreciate the deep insight into both the DC microgrid but also into the clean cook stoves standards world so with that I'm going to open up the opportunity for attendees to send me their questions via the Q&A I'm going to kick us off with a couple of questions that have come to mind and as other questions come in we'll add them to them next so the first question I have and this can be I'm going to send out to you Dr. Mishra to tackle this one first and then perhaps you can have Aini as well so it's around the question of access to standards so the standards you're advocating for in terms of DC microgrids I know that you've mentioned the potential of the market but for those practitioners who development practitioners specifically who are leveraging DC microgrids as part of their projects or programs on the ground working with communities how can they access potentially the standards that you are calling for are there any barriers that they should be aware of whether they're financial or otherwise how can these small groups really integrate the standards into their design I think that will be one issue because standards are available at the cost sorry what I'm saying is there are many free standards which are IC standards which have become older they are I think available at the Google free of cost some standards one has to pay for it but if they seek the some of the experts who are professional in that like me so I can provide them the I can guide them to okay what certain standard is illustrating about it thank you and with respect to cook stoves are there any barriers to accessing the current standards that have been developed in terms of the tiers that you've presented I can address that question so with the IWA there is a cost to access the document but we've also through the global alliance for clean cook stoves website provided a summary of the key points to the standards document so that it can be more broadly understood and shared with the ongoing standards development anyone who is participating in the development of the standards has free access of course to the standards so it's incentive for people who are interested in using the standards to be also involved in developing the standards and the other option for accessing the standards because it's not just accessing the document but also there's the associated equipment and training needed to be able to conduct some of the testing so what we've been doing is helping to build up a global network of testing centers regional testing and knowledge centers and the knowledge being there to provide help and support to all the other organizations and also to help provide testing services and so there are a dozen or 20 testing centers all around the world in developing countries where these are people who are going to be expert and familiar with the standards and the testing methodology they have equipment and the training and then they can work with others to start evaluating their products that's really helpful to know that thank you so much so I'm going to take one very specific question from the audience for Dr. Mishra regarding the DC standards so this particular attendee wants to know you know, Dr. Mishra you talked about the need for more standards in DC microgrids and some standards are already in place so specifically what standards for DC microgrids are lacking at this time can be very specific as to some examples Please repeat the question or you can type the question it will be better than I can speak on the exact lines so exact if you have some specific examples of what standards are currently missing with respect to DC microgrids we have shown examples of what would exist yeah, okay right now the missing links are the correct voltage levels and the standards for the plugs sockets interface terminals that is missing and because those plugs and sockets are most important part of the power distribution especially in microgrids because you will be connecting this to rural areas where the people will be coming with new appliances and they will be not knowing also so all that area is missing right now on grounding again there is issue of different grounding systems are there it's not very clear for DC what kind of grounding should be there so there are standards but still we have to look towards what microgrid will have then there will be another difference there should be a difference between off-grade microgrid or grid connected microgrids so these are the things that needs to be there are a lot of gaps that's very insightful thank you so much and I think it's a good jump off point for us to talk a little bit Rainie you brought up the point of affordability and I think it's a very critical point especially when serving bases of pyramid communities with new products and services so Dr. Mishra you're speaking about the need for more standardization grounding and pockets and so forth so how do you anticipate from both of your respective areas that standards may impact the cost of introducing new products to the BOP specifically market and you know what are some of the implications if you will that needs to be considered yeah it looks to me that once the standard will come then manufacturer will start developing those products because right now in absence of the standards they are not knowing that they will be allowed to market those products in certain region or across the region so that's the dilemma if I come out with certain products let us suppose a socket can it be allowed right now there is no standard universal standard so it's very difficult to gauge what is the market size so once the standard will come every manufacturer will be confident their product will have pass certain regulation and there will be no penalty or some kind of thing if some other standards comes up that you Rainie did you want to weigh in on this one as well yes I think it's an incredibly important consideration I think we have a lot of people as they see standards being developed that there's the concern that higher standards will mean higher costs but I think we've seen a number of examples in other sectors where that was the fear standards were put into place and along with energy efficiency increases prices also came down it's not all due to standards but I think standards are a way to drive the market drive competition so the end users are have seen benefits in other sectors and that's what we are aiming for here as well the other thing too is that in the example of labeling products to increase consumer awareness and have them make informed choices that will be side by side with the price it then turns it goes into the consumer's hand to evaluate if there is a better product that is at a higher price they can decide for themselves whether it's worth it and in some cases it's a good financial decision because if you have a stove that is more efficient even if the upfront cost is higher the fuel savings that can lead to longer term savings that's fantastic so I know that there are a number of folks who are listening to this webinar and will be listening when we push out the recording who will be wondering about what the timeline is associated with these standards coming into reality coming actually to full realization so that they can count on them to anticipate that in terms of their own product development or their work so maybe you could both speak to when you anticipate and then I know it's hard to project but knowing kind of how long it takes to really bring a standard to reality where we stand with respect to DC microgrids and clean cook stoves in terms of these standards so maybe Dr. Pio we'll start with you Aayana just I wanted to give you another benefit of the standards generally now whenever the global standards IEC or IEEE comes across the globe experts participate in that so there is a harmonization of thoughts also goes in and generally all market needs are addressed whenever now new standards come but that takes a longer period because different aspects has to be looked into it so once just I will give you an example we have started working on the DC grid standards which for home and that has started in 2014 sometime in October and now it's almost one year so I think by the end of 2015 or early 2016 it will get first draft will get published so while drafting DC standards for home we have different working group one working group is looking after safety standards another is looking after what is market sizing third working group is looking into the efficiency part so based on all holistic approach the standards are developed so once it is developed it is I think very benefit to humankind and everyone of course and that's taken two years for that particular first draft so we can extrapolate from that the timeline is pretty significant around getting to the ideal end state Rainie did you want to weigh in as well from the perspective of the clean cook stoves? Yeah, it's actually something that we are we hear a lot that we have people who want to have standards as soon as possible to be able to use them and then we have all the people who say we still have a lot of unanswered questions about the technology about the methodology so we have to wait and the process that we are undertaking is to balance those two perspectives that we continue to iterate and improve that's why we started with the international workshop agreement that is a little bit it's a smaller scale effort than standards but it's something in place and then as Mr. Valdes standards I showed a timeline in one of the slides with the different stages of development and approval but even after it's approved it's something that we continue to revisit based on new developments in technology new understandings in the science and engineering so it's always an iterative thing where we're trying to meet the immediate need to make sure that we are we are considering the things that we still don't know and making sure that we address them in a thoughtful way as we develop standards that's very insightful and it definitely speaks to the rationale behind these things taking a while because it's not about rushing to complete the standards of more so meeting the needs of the market and the practitioners and the manufacturers and designers all the folks who are working to deliver these improved solutions so that's really, really quite helpful I brought up the slide I believe that you were referencing with the ISO stages so hopefully that will give us some insight to our attendees so overall I think the resounding themes here are the ultimate benefits to end users and the needs of the marketplace it's tough but both of you are suggesting some approaches that could be effective and have been proven effective with the global lines potentially there's some cross-pollination of ideas that could happen across these communities I'm going to end on the participant our attendee question here that is a very practical one the value of the work that your group is doing which is how does an improved cooking stove can be included in the clean cook stove catalog so maybe you can give a practical answer here on how someone's cook stove could enter the catalog Yes, I can definitely do that and I'm also going back to the slide on the catalog so that the URL is at the bottom for people Yeah, there it is so if you go to that website you'll be able to browse the information that's currently in there both stove and fuel products but there's also a submit or contribute button that you can click there's a form that's submitted for if you have a cook stove or fuel product you could provide information on it and then we do some curation to make sure everything's clean and clear and consistent across the board but we do that in consultation with the people who are submitting and then for testing data that's something that typically comes directly from the testing centers who are producing that data with permission of the stove and fuel manufacturers so we have a number of different channels to provide information to the catalog but it's definitely from all of our partners I hope that answers the question of our attendee and with that that brings us to the end of our webinar I'd like to thank all of the attendees who have joined us today for those of you who are interested in receiving a professional development hour for this webinar please use the code that is listed on the slide and email us at www.sharechanged.org or follow the instructions on the webinar's page to redeem that PDH I'd like to thank our presenters thank you Dr. Mishra thank you Rene for joining us today we truly appreciate your time and your wisdom having gained it through all this experience so thank you to you both and we hope to continue working with all of you and all of the attendees to become your first team members to get information about our upcoming webinars and to learn more about the fantastic people and projects that are currently happening in the web of engineering for global development for that I leave you to say good morning good evening or good afternoon wherever you may be and hopefully we'll catch you on the next first year webinar take care