 I call it structured kindness because like unstructured kindness doesn't really go anywhere because if you're just kind of unstructurally kind to a child who's just beating somebody up in the playground it doesn't it's not productive really but structured kindness is this is this solution focused approach and it's kind in the sense that you're being hopeful about the other person and knowing that they're resourceful and successful in in me in order to bring it out in them so I think I think the hope the hopeful part and the structure the structured kindness aspect of it is really important and when you can see the difference it makes then you can start to think well maybe I can do this maybe it's worth doing this and it doesn't just bounce off against the you know the rhetoric around discipline and you know the exclusion and that kind of thing the I mean I've worked with children right on the edge of exclusion for 20 years and you know with a little bit of work and a bit of time not necessarily one session but five sessions over a month say or a little bit longer and then by by staff in school this is then the child isn't excluded and they're where they should be with their friends and their peers you know they've made a mistake they've learned something they've got over it you know those kind of things productive