 Hello and welcome to MIPTV and with me is the man whose library is bigger than his house, I suspect, from how many books he has. Mr Bob Cook, so hi Bob, and you've got a superbook for us today, haven't you? Yeah, this is from really one of the most well-known psychoanalysts, British psychoanalysts who's still alive. And I thought, what shall I have for number 31? This is book number 31. The book I've just talked about in an earlier video about intuition was book number 30, so one to 31. And this person, I want to see live, if you like, talking about supervision. What a wonderful person. He must be in his late 70s now. But anyway, the name of the book, and it was probably, if you went into psychotherapy school in the late 1980s, this book would be on the top of the list for most training psychotherapy schools. And it's about supervision. Now supervision in the late 1980s was a very, very early beginnings. This book is a particularly wonderful one. It's very easy to read. It became a bestseller. It's by Patrick Casement and it's called Learning from the Patient. So I'm guessing the clue's in the name about this book, really. Learning from the patient. I think you might be right, Roy. I think you might be right. Call me the person with the intuition, Bob. But yeah, learning from the patient. So what does he kind of inform us about what we learn from patients or clients? Okay, so let's put this in its context. So in the 1980s, supervision was really starting to be seen as its own discipline. But it was still very young. People like, really, people like Joan Wilmot and Peter Hawkins and Robin Sherratt. Just written that wonderful book, Supervision, Health and Professions. This is a young discipline. So Patrick Casement started to think about writing this book. He had published in 1989, I think. And it's a series of vigenets from 789 of his clients. He talks about the real importance for supervisors. Yeah, for supervisors to be able to, how can I explain this? To encourage their therapists, their supervisees to bring along notes, case studies of their clients and from the formulation of these, bring out supervision ideas. Because supervision is really about how to help the therapist utilise their best services for the client. Yes. That's what supervision is really about. So the young therapist or even the more elderly therapist will go to a supervisor, not only just to deal with their own anxieties, but they will go there because they're stuck or because they want to talk about their fantasies around how to go forward with their clients. And it was in those early days that Patrick Casement came from. He said, right, bring your clients along. We'll look at them and we'll look at how things are going. If you're stuck, we'll explore that. And this book is all about this and a wonderful book. Yeah, and it's interesting, isn't it? Everybody talks about, as you say, a wonderful book, you know, the Helping Professions, Supervision, the Helping Professions by Sheraton Hawkins, or Hawkins and Sheraton. But there are lots of other ideas and models within supervision. That's the idea of making a client formulation. It's like a dynamic in nature, yes. Yeah, and by doing that, kind of consolidating the supervisor, I guess consolidates their thoughts and then it has a more concrete idea of what they bring into supervision. Yeah, that's right. And of course, one idea of Patrick Casement, I think is a genius idea and really I'd like to mention here something I believe in very solidly. It happens in the therapy world. It certainly happens in the supervision world. And this is it. It's like what I would call the third eye perspective. And maybe even Patrick in his book that I don't remember might have mentioned the same name, the third eye perspective. So it's the idea that you internalize your supervisor. Yes. So when you're working with your clients, you have a third eye perspective with you. And the beginning therapist may take the internalized supervisor as a whole in a way, but as they become more experienced, they integrate the internalized supervisor. And bring in their own identity as well. But you know Roy, how often, how often in your career, my career, when we're stuck, we remember those words, those wonderful sayings from our internalized supervisor to help us through the difficult waters with our clients. Well, you know, it's really strange. I was supervising someone today and that's exactly what came up. That idea of the supervisor saying to me, I remembered what you said. And there's a classic example of that internal supervisor in process. But there's also the other side of it where the supervisor mentioned that they had then brought their own ideas in as well. Yes. So they did not just take what I said and fugurgitated it. They then consolidated that with their own thinking. You've got a third party perspective. Yeah. And you know, that's the same in therapy. If you want to look at it that way, you know, you come into therapy as you start to heal and do the work. You carry the therapist's words with you and distress and integrating new healings in life. And eventually your own identity comes in the process as well. That's the same in child development. But this book is very good at looking at that whole idea. Yeah. Well, I think it's one of those books if you're a supervisor in training, you should really go and get. I like the idea. One of the things that I was always keen of when I taught was helping students develop that kind of third eye, that internal supervisor used to do a lesson on it and talk about it. I used to call them helicopter skills. You'd be here. That's right. And you'd be hovering above, you know. And it was one of those where people said, I'm having enough trouble just doing this bit, you know. But eventually it clicked and they could be in the relationship but also stand outside it and kind of critique it and kind of bring in ideas. It's really interesting and essential, I'd say, to be an effective therapist. Yeah, absolutely. You wouldn't know where you were and the client was. No. You'd have a symbiosis, a merged blob. Yes. And as we're using metaphors, a transferential maya as well, probably. Oh, yes. Certainly that. Yes. Certainly that. I mean, goodness gracious me. Yes. So learning from the patient, Patrick Casement, here's an old book. As always, we'll put a link in the comments bar below and click on it. Bob doesn't get paid for talking about these books. This is purely Bob just talking about his huge library of books and his passion. And also I'll put a little picture at the end of this video. So hang on. I'll put a little picture at the end of this video. So you know what you're looking for. But there we go. Learning from the patient, Patrick Casement. As always, Bob Cut. An absolute pleasure. Nice speaking to you as well, Roy.