 Hey, hello everyone. Good afternoon or good evening or good morning, depending on where you are. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us. I'm really excited to be given the opportunity to do this. I'm really keen, a big fan of learning and development and particularly supporting managers. So I've kind of taken the lead on this. So I have prepared a presentation and I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. I'm going to press the present buttons and my screen will get really big, so I won't see the chat. But as I say, I'm really excited. I am a little nervous as well, so please tell me if I start talking too fast or if I say something that doesn't make sense, please shout at me and tell me to slow down or take a breath and hopefully that will solve the little bit of jitters that I have. Well, shouting at you make you less nervous, Ellie. Probably not. It might make me go a bit redder, but it should help my nerves a little bit. Okay. It will be fine, Ellie. It's all friends. So this is a joint collaboration between Sid and myself. We've gone back, taken a look at the previous management development agenda and decided that we wanted to make this more relevant to GitLab, more actionable, to be able to provide you with some further resources and also share in this session, get a chance for you to tell us a bit more about your experiences and to share your ideas for any improvements that you've discovered with doing one-to-ones and giving feedback. So the plan. There's going to be two speakers, myself and Sid. I'm going to be taking the first two parts. I'll be talking a little bit about one-on-ones. Then I'm going to be going on to talk about how to give feedback. Then I'm going to stop and I'm going to pass the microphone over to Sid. After that, we're going to jump back and if you're looking at the presentation, you'll see there is a slide on discussion. We're going to ask you a few questions. So this is your chance to jump in and tell us a bit more about your experiences. And then we'll give you some further reading and we'll talk about plans for the next session. So one-on-ones. I'm going to answer the first question and then the other three I'll talk about in the next slide. So why are they important? Well, this may seem like an obvious question, but at GitLab, as we all know, everybody works remotely. And most of the time our interactions are done via written communication. And it's sometimes difficult to know that there's a person on the other end of the screen and on the other end of the conversation. And particularly with your team members, you know, you'll be chatting on Slack or whatever. You kind of have a good idea of what they're working on if they have any immediate actions or points that they need your help on. They'll jump on Slack and you'll hear from them straight away. But you might not have a good sense of the other things that they might be working on or what they're thinking about perhaps in terms of, you know, their challenges or their career development or, you know, what's going on. We know what are they thinking about? How can you motivate them? These are all the types of things that it's very hard to do when you work remotely. So the FaceTime, and it is really FaceTime, even though it's usually via video, is really important for that connection. So that's why they're really important, particularly in our setting. So one-on-ones at GitLab. So ideally, you should be meeting with your direct reports once every two weeks for an hour. Now, obviously, depending on the size of your team, that might be too much. It might be not enough. And you really should be prepared and take notes, but try to keep it informal. There should be a conversation. It shouldn't be something that's like a performance review type situation. It should be fairly relaxed, fairly informal. I would obviously have an agenda because it is a meeting and we like to have agendas at GitLab. And you can perhaps use the headings that I've put there, work in progress, things that they're working on, any challenges that they've encountered. It's a good opportunity to talk about career development. And also it's a chance for you to ask them questions and for them to ask you questions. So if you come into a new team as a manager at GitLab, it's a good idea to obviously invite them to a one-to-one, but also in the invitation, just explain to them a little bit about why you're doing it, what it's for, the purpose of it. And tell them, you know, it's going to be a conversation, but I'm going to be taking notes so that when we meet again, we're able to keep things going. And the idea of it is that before you know it, it does become a natural part of everyday working life. The other part of one-to-ones is also it's an opportunity to give feedback. I guess as we all know, there's probably arguably, I should say, there are two types of feedback, positive and negative. And when you're giving feedback, it is a good idea to keep it balanced. And what I mean by that is that it shouldn't all just be negative feedback. If you can try to sandwich it, so you start off perhaps with a positive, have some negative feedback in the middle and then finish it with positive feedback, but also focusing on the future in terms of, this wasn't so great, but in the future, this is how we're going to improve this. So it's important to balance feedback. The second part, know your team. And what I mean by this is that everybody is different. Everybody responds to things differently. It's important to consider that people in your team don't all come from the same country. They may respond to things differently. There may be people who respond to public displays of feedback and people who don't and they prefer it to be kept privately, positive feedback as well. So it's important that you're aware of people in your team and how they approach things, particularly with feedback. Be specific. Don't be around the bush. Keep it as direct and specific as possible and also factual, which is really, really important so that the person who's receiving the feedback has a reference point. So if you've made a note of when something has happened, they can then go away perhaps and check and then come back to you or they can check their emails or check the issue or check the comment that popped up. The next thing is to listen. The person that you're giving the feedback to, if it's negative feedback, they might not respond. They will respond and it's important that you're listening so that you may have it wrong. There may be a situation that they're explaining to you that you might not be aware of. Again, we all work remotely. We're not aware usually of people's day-to-day activities or what they've been working on, what they've encountered. And I also think it's important to remember that even though we all work remotely, we usually work from home. So people are in their homes. It can feel a little bit strange at times to think that I'm at home, but yet I'm surrounded with all my personal things. As you can see in my case behind me, but I'm talking to people who I work with from my home. So it's important to consider that when you're preparing to give feedback. And you as the person giving the feedback should also be prepared to receive feedback. And that is not an easy thing to do. It takes practice. And if you can listen, as I said, and think before you respond, that's really important. Finally, I just want to go to the GitLab collaboration value in the handbook. I'm not going to repeat obviously what it says there, but I want to point it out because it does mention important things about giving feedback effectively, saying thanks and also some guidance on one-to-ones. So when in doubt, please refer to the handbook to get some good information on things as well. So I think it's Sid's turn. Sid, over to you. Thank you, Abby. I was thinking about taking over the screen sharing. Maybe you can share the screen again. Or can you put it in presentation mode again? So everyone, if you could go to not to the website because I pushed some changes just last minute. So there's a link in the chat. There's a link in the presentation. And because the website takes a few minutes or takes over half an hour to deploy. Let's look at the file in our repository. So it should say gitlab.com in your URL, not about gitlab.com. So we're, Abby had the general picture. I want to go down a bit in the specifics of how I'm conducting my one-on-ones. And I heard Paul remark the other day to an investor that we get done in 25 to 15 minutes, what he used to get done in three hours with other people. So I found it to be an efficient format. I'm going to go over the points one by one. Our first one, the meeting should be 25 minutes long. I don't do it with everyone, but Paul, they're longer, but I kind of like the half hour meetings. There should be a Google doc and it should be shared exclusively with two team members. This should never be a public document. It should never be shared with anyone else. What I found really important is that the key results from the OKRs are at the top of the document. So this is like, it should be clear. This is the focus. This is the priority. The agenda is just stuff we want to chat about. Like we're a remote company. You're not going to have, you're not going to have that casual office conversation. Like, hey, did you see this? Did you see that? So that's what our agenda for is. It's like, it's what we want to talk about. It's not what is important. And I didn't do a good job of that. And I let some people strain the past who thought the agenda was what they should focus on, because that's apparently what I wanted to talk about. It's not. As a manager, you should, the OKR should be what people focus about. Andrew says, you share it with senior managers. I don't have that problem because I, that would be board members. That would be kind of weird. But what I did, I think one time that I can remember, I shared it with a board member, but I first asked for their permission. So one of our, I'm not sure where it is in our documentation, but it says that keep negative feedback as, to just a person, involve no one else. And it's, it's going to be a one-on-one. So it's going to have all the negative feedback that there is. It's going to be in this one. Like it shouldn't be in group settings, et cetera. It should be in this one. So, yep. Thanks Andrew for placing that. So I think it's not good to, it should be a personal relationship. And it should be based on trust. And it's hard, it's so hard to receive like negative feedback. So anything you can do to make it easier. You should do it. So I would, I would stop sharing with senior managers. And I would ask for their permission. Like to share like a PDF or something like that. I wouldn't do it on an on-call basis. However, I'm not you. I'm not managing at your level. We could do that. I'm not managing at your level. However, I'm not you. I'm not managing at your level. We could amend this. And then I look forward to the merge request. Some argumentation. So the key results. I try to review it every other week. I'm, I'm still in the beginnings of doing this. I might fail from time to time. But I try to like point to start the meeting with the, the key results every other meeting. Now, for every item on the agenda, it starts with a, a tank. And it's, it's exclusively one of these tags. It's a to do, it's a for your information. It's an ISO date. A discusser done. So the to do is it's something the report should do. A for your information is like you want to say something to someone else. You want to make sure they saw it. It's not urgent. So you're not going to use slack for them and distract them. And it's something that can be removed outside of the meeting. Like if they have a question of that, they can leave it on, but otherwise they can just remove it. And I said it means this thing is like something external in the world has to happen or need some more time or something like that. It's something we shouldn't discuss. It's something we shouldn't discuss. It's something we shouldn't discuss. It's something we shouldn't discuss. We shouldn't discuss it at the date. And until that month or that exact date has arrived, you're not going to discuss it. You both agree. It's not worth discussing until that date because apparently there's something blocking it. And it could be a capacity thing or anything else. So with many of my reports, I'm able to go over the entire agenda, even though it's 40 items, because like 25 of them have an ISO date that is in the future. So that's what we're going to chat about before we can do anything. And done is like, I think this is done. And in that case, the person who didn't, who didn't do the work will remove it. So many times I put something on there. The report does the work. And I remove it. And then frequently I want to check like there, many times there's an edit or a merge request or something in there that I want to see. So that's where the intention of my request was understood. So people add items to the bottom of the agenda. So the agenda is a numbered list in Google Docs. So I don't think that says it. So I'll add that. And we prefix any items with our names. So if I put a coin down our agenda, it will say discuss, seed, column, and then the item. So I try to make an example below. So it would be discussed, seed should be, it should be, should we look into a collaboration with Walmart? And then when someone responds to use a hash rocket and says, and then prefix it with their name and say, I don't think so, et cetera. This prevents you from having to have comments, friends of having to look at the history to see who did what. Many items spin into sub bullets all the way. I don't think we went over the alphabet, but some of the, some of the items like take up half a page, which is not ideal, but it is what it is. The calendar item for the meeting should obviously include a link to the agenda. And we use Google comments to signal urgency. So normally we shouldn't, we don't use comments to discuss something because it's, it's not a nice interface. Things tend to get lost. So use hash rockets and indentation for that. I'm taking a, I'm taking a few notes of things I want to improve. But it's basically, you just had mentioned them. So they get an email like, hey, this is something you should probably be aware of before the meeting or it should take quicker action on. You can't wait until the meeting. We link relevant issues and Google docs. And we do not use like Google docs hyperlinks. We just paste the full URLs. That makes it a lot easier to see like which repo it is in, which number it in to copy paste stuff. No need to, to do something fancy. And very important, both parties add stuff to the agenda. So preferably the majority is added by the team member. If I put more than half of the items in there, it's an indication that something is wrong. Also when, when it becomes too long, that's also an indication that something is wrong. Then a few pointers from high output management, which I recommend each and every one of you read. So a key point about the one on one, it should be regarded as the subordinates meeting with an agenda and tone set by him or her issues that preoccupy and make the subordinate apart from. I'd rather use him and her and not say subordinate, but report, but apart from the language which we might change. This is important and I'm not doing a super good job, but preferably you have your report work through the agenda. And it will take a bit of time in the beginning or like to get used to the format. But I think if you can have them walk through it, like them lead the meeting, it's just better. They will feel more empowered. Then another good point in high output management is that the frequency and the length of the meeting and the amount of detail might depend on their, I think it's called task maturity. So sometimes I have someone, not now, but it used to be when I had someone that was struggling, was just new to the company. I'd even move them to like a daily meeting, which is intense for them. And then for some of my, for I think one report that is very able to like determine their own path and that I just don't need to coordinate a lot with. I can do like, I can be in a two-week schedule. So the frequency can depend a bit on their maturity. Also the length of the meeting and maybe the amount of detail you put into it. What is a bit weird in remote companies is that you can, that you can have like pretty trivial things on the agenda, which are not really important and would be stuff that otherwise would just come up in conversation and they're still here on an agenda, black and white. So I think that's something that people have to get adjusted to. Like not everything on the agenda is important. It's just also sometimes like having a conversation, making conversation. It's not small talk, but it's not that super important things either. And those are in other companies would happen in a whole way conversation, but we are a whole way here. You're not going to meet any good people. So that's why we put it on the agenda. Bill Campbell, great executive coach. Also has some ideas about the one-on-one. Also have both people put stuff on there. He likes to go over the list before the meeting starts. And he thinks that there are four topics that are important to discuss, performance on the job, relationship with peer teams, leadership and innovation. I don't, we just discuss anything that comes up. We're mostly able to go to anything. So I don't do this calling of what we should talk about. Obviously many times I want to put something on there. I see they already added it or vice versa. Performance on the job. That's just consists of a lot of items. Relationships or peer teams. Many times there's stuff I should do. I should talk with someone else to resolve. So that comes up. Leadership is about like, who's doing well? Who's not doing well? Who needs coaching? Who needs feedback? And innovation is our business. So lots of items about innovation all the time. Let's go over the chat. Manin says that works and works well. Manin, can you elaborate a bit on that? Yeah. It was a point 14 sub point one from high out of management. Cool. Thanks. Mark said if you have negative or positive, giving it right away. Not waiting for the one on one. Mark, you want to elaborate on that a bit? Yeah. I mean, pretty much what I just said there, but I don't know. I read this sometime ago and it actually helped a lot. Like if you wait until the one on one, whether it's weekly or bi-weekly, people forget the examples of, you know, whatever caused the negative feedback or often forgotten, you know, there's a whole, you know, recency thing involved there. But also just, you don't want to let something, you know, bad behavior continue for a week and a half until you correct it. So, you know, if you see something you need to correct, schedule a meeting or, or, you know, you can't pull them aside because we're not live, but connect with that person right away. Don't wait for the one on one and make sure you give that feedback right away while it's fresh and they can actually discuss it. I used to have a lot of one on ones where I'd be like, yeah, you did this thing. I don't remember the details. You're like, well, I don't know what to do. If you can't even point when it happens, you know, it's not very useful. And then also just to reiterate, you already said this in the link, but the one on one is mainly for the subordinate. So if you're using it for your time to give your feedback, you're sort of robbing them and shifting the focus subtly from their, you know, their time. And I really always like to tell people, you know, beginning of these things that like, this is your time, whatever you want to talk about, that's what we're going to talk about. I know that contradicts what Bill Campbell said, but that's what I do anyway. Is there something I could do better too? Probably. Yeah. Cool. Thanks for that. Any other comments or suggestions people want to make here? So can that be kept for discussion or can I ask now? Or can I say now? Yeah, we can go straight into the discussion. This is a. Okay. Well, one of the things that I found very helpful was, um, I have a team that's not really, um, engaging basically there. They're more of, um, um, like to get things done. So, um, what I found useful in one on one is having a bullet points at the very top, uh, with some suggested topics to think about. And, um, the topics are, um, did anything important happen since the last one on one or something that you think is important since the last one on one? Um, what kind of, did you see any potential troubles for the team? So any problems that you might have noticed? Um, also for the company and what do you think went well and what didn't go so well, um, in the, like, since one on one, since the last one on one. And what can I do to make your work easier? And is there anything in the non-working, um, part of your life that can influence your work or something that you want to give a heads up to? And what I found was that giving those topics, um, made, uh, made people think about one on one, um, before the meeting and that, uh, caused a lot more discussions in the one on one than I had, uh, before. Hey, Mara, and that's pretty helpful. This is Hayden. Um, I was just making a list here of, um, I asked myself the questions just on a scratch pad here. What does the team member expect from a one on one? And I just wrote down the things that you mentioned, Mara, and important things since the last one on one, problems for the team or the company, what's working, what's not working influences on work performance. Um, I guess if this is the team members kind of meeting, what do you, what do we all think that they expect from it? I had a few other things that, um, I noted just at the start of the meeting about, you know, helping them resolve challenges. Um, maybe they, they want to know, uh, how they're performing. I probably would. Um, are they on track to meet their career goals? Think things of that nature. I just want to open that up to see what other people think that a team member wants from a one on one. Thanks Hayden. I think it's probably a good idea. I know we're talking about this, which is great. Um, and I don't want to duplicate, but I think it probably is a good idea to have a doc with all of these suggestions in. So what I'll do is I'll copy the chat. No, no doc. No doc. This that needs to end up at the website, Abby. So we'll, uh, we'll, uh, put make murder press to add this already. I've already copied these suggestions. So if people can drop more in the chat, I'll make sure to add those. Um, Okay. I wasn't going to just leave them in the dark. I was going to just put them there and then, but yeah, just, um, So anything that needs to end up in the website, we should never take the intermediate step of having a doc for them. It's, it's in our communication guidelines. And I've seen it. I've seen it create a lot of extra work as I'm, I'm a bit more strict about reminding people of this and telling it here, because I've, I know that you're, you're not the only one, everyone is struggling with this. So never use a doc as a, as a, as an in-between step for something that you don't end up at the website. What you see is that people are like improved adding stuff to the doc. And at the same time at the website, like there's no, there's no single source of truth anymore. Um, and that, and it just creates all kinds of friction. So. Thank you very much for the, for the feedback. That's actually a good example of a feedback for me in the moment. Um, so yeah, that wasn't planned by the way. Um, we didn't plan that. That's like a kind of live example for you. Yeah. It's an example of a win as in giving direct feedback. I'll also, example of a fail giving feedback at a group setting instead of on a, one-on-one basis. But that's okay. It's me. It's, it's okay. Hey, Joe made a nice comment in the chat there about, um, you know, as a tendency to focus on issues and challenges, don't forget to recognize accomplishments and their successes. So that's a, that's a good point. I do try to, I forgot, I forgot a tag and I'm not using it enough, but I'll add it to the list of tags and that's the thanks that like, thank you for this. Thank you for that. Chris says I'd like to ask what I could be doing better as a manager. I'll, um, I'll add that. I, I tend to ask a really open question at the end. And I'm interested in what my reports, I assume some of them are in this meeting. Think about it. And I just asked, how can I make your life better? Which is pretty generic instead of, how can I be a better manager? Obviously all of the points are for me to be a better manager, but I want to kind of ask a really open question so, so that they're, so that it can be anything from like, a problem they're facing in life to like feedback for me as a manager, but without throwing up that barrier, like how are you going to give me feedback? And I might frown upon that. What do, what do my reports think of that? Pretty broad question. I think it may be a question that's worth having people think about before the meeting, because if you get called on the spot, it may feel like being put on the spot. Ah, this is a really interesting one. Um, what is, I think it's in high output management and it's about having really short meetings. And what NG says, I think is that give a really short meeting. You kind of don't warm up enough to start talking about those harder topics. Um, so it's, you know how there's all kinds of detectives where the, I think of Colombo, which is a European thing where they kind of walks away and then he turns around one last time and asks this like inconsequential question. Journalists use this trick too. Use it too as a manager. Like have the hardest question, the stuff that's hardest to talk about. Have it at the end. Don't force him to put it in a doc, but have this like anything I can do to make your life better. And very frequently I hear the most, the hardest to talk about subjects after that question. Um, so it's, it's not that I don't want them to think about it upfront, but it's, I'll add some documentation about, about this. You know, just as the meeting started, I started to make some notes about, um, what team members expect from us as a manager. Uh, which I think this kind of topic is going into, but then I, I left it alone because this was the, the focus was about one-on-ones. Um, so then I changed it to what does the team ever expect from a one-on-one, but I think there is a larger question about what the team members expect from us as a manager. We probably should all be on the same page. You know, I wrote things like responsiveness, uh, set clear expectations, enable autonomy, manage career development, motivate, uh, open, open door, provide constructive feedback, just things like that. Those make a lot of sense. Abby, how are we going to, should we capture that on this? Are we going to have a session about this? I'm not sure where to, where to put these things. Um, I think it's probably a good idea. Um, in fact, I'll scroll down and skipping ahead a little bit, but there is a, there is an issue on slide nine. There's a link to an issue there for, um, future topics, um, that we want to discuss. Um, and this is obviously, you know, we want to make this like these sessions like this, where everyone is, um, contributing with their thoughts, their experience, um, to help, uh, everyone. So that might be the, the place to put, to put that, um, initially, perhaps. Yep. I put Hayden's comment there already. Thanks for that. Uh, chat asked something, if you're saving it for the end, does it leave ample time to discuss? No. Yes or no. Uh, like, you should have a few minutes left at the end. I tend to ask it only when there's a bit of time left, like if there's, if there was a complete rush to go to the agenda, it's not a good time to ask. And then, if it's a big topic, at least it came out of them. And now you can make a note for the next meeting. Um, so the important thing is that you have the start of that, that they, that they start talking about what's, what's really bothering them or what's on top of them. I got a question for everybody on the line. What does, um, does every, what I've been doing, you know, I generally meet with my guys once a week. We have a pretty set agenda, you know, reviewing pipeline and things like that, plus other things that they put on the agenda. But I usually do use the first few minutes of the meeting as a bit of a coffee chat. You know, for example, Mike Walsh is a big tour de France fan. So am I. So we probably use the first 10 minutes to catch up on the latest happenings in the tour. It just kind of, you know, I think that's a really good thing. And then we ease into the agenda. Um, so I'm kind of using the one on one as a bit of a, a double up as a coffee talk and then go into the agenda. Does anyone else do that? Yeah. I think, you know, it's part of the relationship development as well with, uh, with your team. Um, and so, you know, to focus a little bit on the personal as well, understand what's going on with them and their lives and, you know, talk about shared interests as you say. So yeah, I think that's an important part of, I think I'm not going to be using the one on one's. It doesn't work well with everyone though. That's what I've experienced. Exactly. Um, I, uh, I wouldn't surprise you that I don't spend a lot of time on it. I do the bit, uh, but I found out there's, there's one, uh, there's one. I can't say anything more than I want to identify anyone. But, uh, where I was kind of, there was so little like chat that I was kind of. That I want to train them on their ability to, um, to do it. So now, um, I'm instituting the quiet small talk at the beginning of our meeting. So, uh, I was, I was, I want to share that anecdote. I feel for you. It's not, it's not for everyone. The one on one stuff. Or the small talk stuff. I had a question, uh, that I wanted to ask the group. Uh, I don't know if I don't know, I don't know. I don't actually know how many other teams have this, but, uh, so I have two, uh, contractors and they work very few hours compared to a normal full-time person. Uh, and so I only schedule their one-on-ones, uh, monthly and wanted to see just because it, you know, uh, they're, they're, they're only doing one day a week. So monthly seemed like the right timeframe for, for that kind of one-on-one and wanted to see it's how, uh, how many other people have contractors that do, uh, lower frequency one-on-ones. I think for me it's, it is dependent on the work, um, you know, that the people are doing and also sort of what is needed, you know, to effectively, um, support them. So I think it's said mentioned that, you know, some extreme cases you have daily standup kinds of meetings. Um, other cases it's weekly. Others, you know, it's bi-weekly. So, and I think in the, uh, you know, contractor, um, with limited hours, that can make sense. I think some of it too is, you know, trying to assess what they need to, you know, to feel properly supported, right? So if they feel disconnected because they're only talking to you once a month, you know, that can be problematic. So, you know, it can also be a, you know, 10-minute check-in versus a formal one-on-one as well. So I think a little bit, you know, feeling it out, see sort of what you feel like they need and, you know, it's comfortable and helpful, um, for them. But I do think, you know, there are many cases where, you know, a weekly is not needed. And also the other thing is that, you know, looking at the flip side is we're all so busy, right? And, you know, it's a half hour block or an hour block, you know, on their calendar. And so, you know, also being sensitive to, you know, the work they need to get done. So to the point of visit weekly, bi-weekly, et cetera. I like, uh, Cortland's suggestions. How are you as a person, how's your work, how's the team? Do you, Cortland, do you put that explicitly on the agenda? Or is this stuff you ask? Is this like in the area of the question, how can I make your life better that you ask it a bit more structured or how do you do this? I tend to not structure it, um, too formally. Like I don't tend to write it down in, in the agenda of a one-on-one. Um, I find it, it comes across, um, as it's intended, which is, um, authentic, uh, more effectively if it's not like written into the, the agenda. Um, but, uh, I, I feel like it's a good progression to just, you know, check in with, with the person as, as a human. Um, then go over work stuff and then get into, I think the most difficult to talk about topics, which, which we were kind of discussing earlier, which are often easier to do at the end of a meeting. Um, once, you know, the cadence has gotten going and, and, and, you know, all of that. And I think that when there is inevitably issues with people, um, and kind of challenges in terms of working with other people and, and that sort of thing. Um, it's, it's best to keep that at the, at the end to talk about like how the overall team is doing or how work as it relates to working with other people is going. So you save these questions for the end? I save the kind of like questions around, um, how, what, how work is going with other people to the end. Um, so not those, those three questions. I tend to open a meeting with checking in on, on the person, not, you know, their, their work or them as an employee, but them as a human. Um, and then I spend most of the, the meeting discussing work and like, you know, um, kind of tactical agenda points. And then the end of the meeting, checking in on like, Hey, you know, do you, do you need things from other people? Um, have people made commitments to you that they haven't appelled? You know, things like that to get people talking about how, uh, it's going working with other people that they need to collaborate with. Can I ask a question? Um, to the group that's here, particularly for, um, managers who've come into new teams that have already been working together. Do you have any, um, sort of tips or advice, um, for people who might be coming into get lab in that, in a similar situation? I'll add my two cents because I'm in the same situation where I've been placed as a manager over a team that I wasn't previously. Um, and then coming into get lab and what I used before, I think that the most important part in the leadership side of things is setting and understanding expectations. So not just them understanding the expectations of the management group, but management understanding the expectations of the individual. And I think if both of those things are met initially or understood clearly at the beginning, the relationship with each of the employees that you manage will increase a lot faster than it would if you just went into a situation saying, this is how things are going to be moving forward and not necessarily understanding each other. Because like Cortland had mentioned earlier, everybody is so different and how do we approach our conversations and the needs of each individual is so different in every role. So that's just my two cents. Yeah. I just wanted to say, uh, coming into UX, uh, the same thing. I mean, uh, especially with Tori in place who had done such an amazing job just overseeing everything and keeping things going and making sure that, um, I let her know that I still needed her support and that, uh, the team could still look to her for support that it wasn't like, here I am and I'm taking over and everybody needs to do what I say now. It was much more of a, hey, I'm here to be part of the team. And let's talk about how things have been going, how you want them to go and kind of work together towards that. And I found that, uh, it's been a really wonderful experience so far. Um, Maden, you had a couple of points. Well, by the way, I thought both suggestions by chat such a great chat. I wrote your one down. Literally, I'm going to include it. Um, Maden, you said a couple of points. I think Lee posted something in the chat. If you have your points, I can add them as well. I'll post. I'll do a big, cool. I'll do a big merger class that we can discuss next time we meet. With, uh, with what we learned. Any, what, what should we talk about next time? Um, I think that, um, what is expected of you as a leader wasn't. Interesting one that Hayden brought up. Um, but feel free to shout out. What, uh, what we want to do. I would really like to, to hear maybe that's a bit too far away, but, uh, I would really like to hear how, how, uh, to handle. Um, Uh, how to recognize and handle underperformance in time before it becomes a problem. Haha. That's one of the hardest things in the world. Um, I do other people think. I think that's a good topic. Are we sure we do that for the next meeting? That sounds good to me. Um, I think in terms of the frequency of these, I think we'll probably try to stick to every two weeks. Cause I know you, you're everyone, um, it's obviously very busy being managers and also having your day-to-day jobs, uh, as well. Um, so I will look at calendars and I'll move the time cause I know, um, not everyone can make it and we are going to record these as well. I'll be sure to post the link for the recording. Um, another thing I'd like to ask as well is that it would be great if we could get some other speakers. Um, I'm very happy to facilitate and help with preparation and content and things like that, but it would be great to have, and I'm kind of speaking to directory level people and above, but if anyone else wants to jump in and speak, um, that would be really great. So if it's not all one person doing all the talking. Um, so I will be on the hunt. You know, in a good way, um, for, for speakers. Yep. I, I, I think the format of the meeting is going to be, these are the times that I was too late in identifying underperformance. And this is what I learned because, uh, at least for me, that's, uh, that's, that's kind of how you learn. Uh, it's a super hard subject. So if people have obviously anonymized, uh, stories to share, it would be great if we can get a few people that tell like what they learned from this heroin case, um, in five minutes or something like that. So please do chime in. Um, it's about leadership. We expect some leadership. Um, and I thought this was a really good session. I am so proud of everyone participating. I'm very thankful for Abby or help organizing. Um, and I hope it, uh, I hope it was useful and looking forward to seeing you, uh, during the next session. Thanks everyone. Thanks everyone. Thank you.