 Alright, so as I put in the email, I just was wondering if you could kind of move our agenda around because Julia asked, you know, wanting to really dig in on the, kind of the nexus. And, and then I also just kind of combined the like work plan updates with the outreach updates conversations thinking that those things were really like pretty intertwined. So that makes sense. So, kind of new agenda is putting the city budget discussion, kind of first as our discussion item and fundraising and work plan and other business does that make sense. Yeah, I'll move to the revised agenda. Jeremy do you want a second second. All favor. Hi. Hi, any opposed. Um, and so it's like no public comments. Have folks had a chance to review and approve that a review the number five minutes that Michael sent out. Take a moment to just look over those real quick. Your quick look. Great. Jeremy when you're ready do you want to make a motion to approve the minutes. Sure. I move that we approve the minutes. Helen you want a second. I second. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Any opposed. All right. So I'm to kind of our big discussion item of the city budget. So how is the game we could frame the eye and Jeremy and I talked to the message. Yeah. I'm going to frame this conversation is just to like share some updates of like where the city council at like what, what, what, what are we dealing with here what, what are kind of the feelings or the things that are getting brought up. So I'm just going to talk about some like different processes that we could go about doing this and providing some recommendations and then to dig into to what that would be before going into some next steps. So, you know, whether that is a rubric or a set of values that we want the city council to hold on to while we'll having these budget discussions, or something completely else. We kind of loved it. So does that sound good for like how to have this conversation. Right. Okay. Just remind me, did, did Cameron go through just like the process. Would that be helpful before. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah. Great. If you're willing Cameron. Of course. I have been talking about the budget all day today. So I'm looking to talk about the budget. So what our process is normally, I'm going to sort of explain a normal year. This is not a normal year. But I think that staff sort of work together as departments to come up with a usually a proposed budget that fits what sort of threshold of tax raises or tax. Stipulations that council guides us with. We come up with a budget that fits within those confounds we have, you know, various priorities, different areas where we draw priorities. Right now we're really strongly sticking to our strategic plans. So the other city plans that I had what we do on the daily and then we together as a sort of city departments. Hash that out and then present it to council council goes through it. We have a couple of public hearings for the budget, which are really important. And then the council approves that it goes to the voters for town meeting day and then folks wrote on it. They have a commission to be on the ballot where they, they can ask council to be added to the ballot or they can go get signatures and vote on the ballot. This year is significantly different for a few reasons. One, we don't have any money. We don't have almost $2 million. So we have to make up that deficit heading into fiscal year to which we're folks who are not familiar with the fiscal years doesn't start until next July. So we're talking about a budget that's going to come into effect next year. So we've already sort of taken a lot of austerity measures with this fiscal year that we're in right now. We're going to be taking cuts for next year. So this will be sort of lasting impact for our community, honestly, so we went into budget Congress today will be having follow up meetings tomorrow individually but we went into this year with a couple of assumptions. And our biggest assumption I think is that it's almost unconscionable to bring a that comes forward with a tax rate hike. We know our community is struggling and we're there with them and we don't want to burden the community anymore. So the budget that we'll be proposing to council does not include a tax rate increase. But because of that are we had to cut our budget 25 20% to keep that accurate. And so our focus has really been on core functions. And so I think that y'all will be interested in in sort of what that means. A lot of our, you know, I can't say for certain since it's not presented to council yet, but a lot of the things that are on the table, everything's on the table. I should say that right now. Everything's on the table that a lot of that things that we can cut that are not core services are one of them are the more community service oriented aspects of the city. The things we cannot cut our fire police and DPW will public health and safety. That's not to say they haven't taken big cuts and are not looking at big cuts staffing reductions in the way of holding positions open and not hiring people. Because one of the other big assumptions that the city took this year is projects and equipment over people. We're not going to anticipate the budget that we present to council, including any live person position cuts. So that's we're just holding everyone's job stable. It means moving some folks around, but it doesn't include laying anyone out. So something new that we're doing this year is a budget survey, which will be turning to our to really help us spread through whatever channels we have through each of those committees. Trying to feel what the community wants. And so that's sort of a new adventure for us we have a new department head in our finance department interested in getting more community feedback. We have a couple planned extra budget meetings as like staff is just like listening session with community but obviously that's been tabled for this year. So, all in all it's a pretty difficult budget year. I'm all editorialized here to say I'm really proud of the team for the work they've already put in on coming up with this budget so I'm interested to hear any feedback that you'll have already questions that you have going into this already. That was definitely a monologue. I apologize. That's helpful. Thank you. No, that was exactly what I wanted to hear. Yeah. And so sorry. So the budget survey is getting sent out but there is not a public meeting. We just wanted to do extra ones. Going into this year that we're going to do extra budget public hearings. Listening sessions with community members and it's just not going to happen, but the council is happening. Cameron, the budget survey you said there was a person in finance who's kind of taking point on that. Yes. I'm curious to know more about what the survey includes and the kind of timing of all that. Is there any way you could make an introduction to this person so we could. Yeah, she's our finance director. Her name is Kelly Murphy. She is currently writing the survey. I anticipate that will go out on the time we presented to council, just to know what they're responding to. Yeah. Yeah. And as far as I understand it, she's facing a lot of her questions for this year off of what the state does. And then the timeline is that the city council has to approve this by January. Yes, that right. Okay. I can just add one thing to this and that is that the. The Montpellier fund committee, which which reviews and recommend makes recommendations to the city on non government support, the government support of non government service and arts groups. We, we asked, we were told we would that we should have as a target, no more than what we requested last year. And I haven't heard yet whether that we got word from bill that we should be reducing that number, but that those are the people who used to petition for money on the city ballot. And now, instead of doing that because that ballot got so long people objected to it. So those requests come in as part of an application, which our committee reviews and looks at past performance with previous years funding and then makes a recommendation to the city council, which they. But it's really an all or nothing kind of thing that they've never done cherry picking with our recommendations. We'll be meeting problem. Let's see. I think the deadline is right after Thanksgiving. So we meet in December and then present our, our report to the city, right after at the, at the beginning of the budget session, I think. So we'll have more details on what our recommendations are accountable to. It did sound to like, I mean, I guess a couple thoughts. I think saying that, like, zero tax increase I wouldn't take that for a given I think like absolutely like that and that the 20% tax increase or something that we would need like a man, no one's going to do that obviously I but I, I think there were mixed feelings on council about appetite for tax increases. And I think that's going to be a function of like, what are we losing so at a time when people need services more than ever, what are we cutting versus tax burden on the community so I think and that's where I think this, this groups kind of how, what do we look at and like your great question Cameron of like what, what do we as a community consider essential services that the city is providing and like, you know, where is the state stepping up or not versus like what the community is doing so I think that's where it's just like wrestling with this I mean, like personally I'm very like anti austerity government approach and so it's like driving me crazy that we're kind of forced into this box and, but as a city you have very limited tools for, you know, like as the state they could do like a wealth tax or something and we don't have like the ability to do a whole lot of things like that. So one of the ways that did come up in council was you could do like a base budget and then you could have a kind of next tier thing that you put on the ballot and see if voters want to approve something that would increase their taxes, but provide a different set of services so you know I think through ways to see you know what is the appetite of the community and the ability of the community, I mean, you know there's, there's, yeah, it's just, it's all tough, but thank you Cameron for laying that out. I guess I, thank you Lauren I will also say like when I say no tax increase, I don't say I'm not saying that that's what's going to be improved we just are bringing that sort of base line to council, because there's some things that will inevitably be added back into like our crazy cut. Crazy cuts. Got it with 20% Does the city have a rainy day fund the way the state does and if so is there a policy about how to use it and Yes, and yes but ours is currently under what it should be for policies so there's no using that. Okay. Because of the fiscal situation that we've been put in it's not okay. Yeah, anyone else like go to these meetings or like just have any other like reactions or, or, yeah, well I was able to watch the, the recorded council discussion camera that you sent, which was really incredibly interesting. And not dry or boring at all. Thank you. So I was struck by a couple of things watching that conversation. And Lauren you'll have to correct me if I mischaracterize anything because I'm kind of like popped in with no context and just observing that one conversation but I was struck at just how difficult this is to wrestle with. I mean, with the size of the city's budget, a nearly $2 million deficit, like, it's almost insane. I think that's what the current state is. So I was really struck by how difficult this, this process will be because of that. And this could be the other thing. And this could be just because of the conversation that I saw on council but I was, I was, it was curious to me how I didn't hear much in the way of, like, what are the things that help. You make decisions about the budget, like the tools at hand, whether it's, you know, guiding principles of some kind or, you know, strategic priorities. And I know that the city has those of course, but in that conversation it felt like it was quite wide ranging. And it wasn't clear to me like what do people hold on to when they have to make these really hard decisions. And so, seeing that and thinking about what role we could play. I found that really interesting. I don't quite understand the budget process I do much more now Cameron, since you laid it out and it certainly does seem like the city staff and the city manager. I mean, they have to build the budget because they know the numbers they know what their operations are and what their costs are and everything. So I understand kind of putting that on them to build a budget. Much more so than I did at first. And so I'm, I'm thinking again, like, so what does council use to make these really hard decisions and then recommendations back to the city. And I don't know, Lauren, if you have more insight on that from your perspective. Yeah, I mean, I do think like the touchstone that Cameron referenced is the strategic plan that we developed, although we kind of developed that as the. It was like right after the pandemic this year so we kind of knew but we didn't really know what we're in for. But we knew everything was different but we didn't know how or for how long. And but and then like, part of that are some kind of like guiding values that didn't change this year much. And so but they're like very broad like a welcome and inclusive community and like things like that. Like so, I think that's like the premise that, you know, like, guides it. And since since I've been on council which is not very long, it's been more like there's like the core services we provide and the city staff know best and they bring it to us and then there's like the things around the edges of like that it would be nice to do and can what can we actually, you know, put together as a package that seems like something that you know will be supported by the community and that the community would be happy with, you know, like a reasonable tax rate to propose to people for. And so it's like, so that's that's been the discussion so then this year, yeah it's a totally different thing of like how, how do you think through massive cuts. And where does that come from and like what are the kinds of things that help you know to me like minimize long term damage to the city government and to the community. And kind of like get us through and then what can we make up later through. But yeah, yeah, I feel like the previous experiences I've had are like not that useful for this moment. Well, I'm just go ahead here. I would just to respond. Again, I was also struck by the council discussion in terms of there's this tension between kind of reacting to this moment and like the break fix mindset. And so thinking strategically, you know, two, three, four years out where do we end up on the other side of this. And so that that also kind of reinforced to me like, yeah, what are those like solid principles you can use to make really hard decisions that, you know, may not be popular now, but have a kind of eye on what happens in the long term. Yeah, really challenging. And I was just going to ask, I feel like I was kind of coming in with. I don't know if I've done a more confidential approach, but it's just being like, what can we like, you know, what can we propose to like make this the best again and I think I'm, I want to hold that and be like what would be useful for the city council and for like guiding other conversations in, in order to best have these conversations I suppose as well do like any insight as to like what, what type of tool or, or product or yeah anything like that. I mean, generally I would think if, if it's principles and there's examples of what you mean like the more tangible it can be would probably be more helpful. I mean, I do think like there's a general, you know, there's this real tension of like what are we asking people to pay and then what are we providing for people, and it's real it's like for some people attacks increase is going to be a real burden right now. Other people, it's fine and they would probably happily contribute to providing more services and like where you draw that line and so I think like which things for the community to pay like, I felt like there was there was definitely an airing towards like, let's maintain or like zero out taxes because that just no matter what and like to me that's not a given it's like, keep it low. Yes, but like, if it meant the difference between being able to like provide homelessness services right now like I would want to pay that more like what are the. So, I don't know just like, I feel like it's really hard to do theoretically so once we get the budget. Isaac, I'm going to call thank you. Like, I think it could become more real of like looking at like what are the real choices we're facing. Yeah, and so I think I don't know for today if that's almost I'm like almost like once we get to the point where we know what are the choices that we're facing like it's almost too late because then it becomes so like not to is never too late right but you know like if there is a way to have a more like principal conversation so that going into those like there is like a common understanding of like what yeah I think that's what I was hoping we could do on this call before going into more of the specifics. Does that, does that resonate or I feel like my words are just been failing me all week, and they're never great. Are you talking about, you know, you're talking about the council in general or about our, our role, our position vis-à-vis the budget in the council. I'm probably following, but I think I was, you know, we can provide a, you know, draft of like some, you know, from social economic justice advisory committee here are a set of principles that we want the city council to hold on to before, like, and get agreement around those principles before going into the actual nitty gritty conversation of like, all right, we're going to provide this much less in order to hold taxes, you know, like, so that there before it gets to the point where it's specific. That clarifies that. Okay, cool. For me. Yeah, I think having that for the first meeting that we're looking at the budget would be really helpful. I mean, I think normally at that point like the budget mostly is done to be honest and it's really like nibbling around the edges. And I think the staff that really are the experts and like what most of the core functions are going to are going to be and have already heard the council kind of strategic vision and priorities and that's like embedded in it. Usually, that's pretty well synced up, but this year is such a different year that I think it'll be a much more robust back and forth I'm guessing. You know, I think I don't think it's too late to be, I think it will really be like, December. I do. Like I said, we've, we've really stripped this down and it's going to be a political discussion of what gets added back right so, you know, that's, I think that's really accurate. Like I said, our real assumptions were, don't cut people, keep it level funded, focus on core services so people can travel and live safely. So I guess I'm really hearing that like some just what we could probably, you know, best uniquely contribute is not necessarily like a rubric or a like criteria or things like that but this kind of set of principles or values that's on me. I think that would be helpful. Yeah, Michael Jeremy. I think, you know, I had, and I can share a little bit if it's interesting to people I did some research this week just to try and see how people might be thinking about making decisions but also specifically budget decisions with, you know, social and economic racial justice principles in mind. And some of those tools that you shared, Shayna. We're really instructive in that. I think, yeah, I think to build like a robust processor tool. Your term kind of move, because you want to get the experts on board with building a budget from day one with all these kind of principles built in. And that's a that's a longer term kind of transformation process where, you know, down to like this specific city department, they are building a budget that is incorporating these particular values and principles whatever they might be. So I think that's, that's an interesting opportunity for the long term but the short term is really what, you know, how can Council apply a filter or a lens to the budget at a little bit of a higher level, with which they can use to say, you know what this is going to impact certain members of our community in a really negative way. And why is that what can we do to mitigate that. And also look at trade offs I mean it's going to be about trade offs and kind of difficult conversations. And so what are the questions that Council might ask to be able to have that conversation and just to see what maybe intended and unintended consequences might be with, you know, a pretty severe kind of change to the budget process. Hi Julia we're still in our first major agenda item of the budget. Yeah, cool. And yeah we're, we're just talking about the principles that we have like what would be the most useful tool or and how to enact that that see Jack could bring to the city Council. Yeah, into the city, I should say. And so like with that. Yeah, thank you. I guess I'm, I'm feeling a little stuck on how to move forward, because I don't know if we're going to be able to like brainstorm what that list of questions and things should be. And I am now kind of wondering if we should have had this conversation two weeks ago so at this point we could have like a draft like work off of. Because also recognizing that by the time we have our next meeting it's going to be like in, like deeply in the process. So, I'm hearing a lot of really good like just writing these things down like when you make budget decisions, what Jeremy just said, keep in mind the unintended consequences or who in the community this choice would be impacting the most. Like, those are, those are perfectly valid guiding statements that I just heard being said by committee members, you know, yeah. I mean, I have, I don't know where we are with time and agenda. And I certainly don't want to monopolize our time. I do have some examples of those kinds of questions that I could either show you or just read through. But yeah, I don't know where we are with the agenda and what time allows so. I mean, I think like 15 or 20 more minutes on this. Yeah, before going into the outreach does that make sense, because I think we'll just we're just like whizzing through names and, and dates and things for the rescue agenda. So, it may not even take that long. I don't know protocol here with zoom. Can I share my screen is that appropriate. Yeah, and I think Cameron might need to make you. No, I have, I have opened that up. Share my screen, which is just it's a little bit more visual way that I work that'll help me kind of, that's great. Share some things that I found. It's my fancy virtual whiteboard tool. Oh, wow. So I think you can see that. It's really small for me. Oh, there we go. So, it's okay, you all have different devices. I'm going to read this, but just to give you a sense of. So a couple of and it was quick research. But a couple of things that were really interesting that I'll just point out so this was something that you've already looked at I believe as a group the. It stands for but it's a racial equity toolkit that I believe you drew upon to create your worksheet equity worksheet at some point. And I found that these particular three questions were perhaps a great start to this discussion. And so they need to be customized for our particular needs but, you know, so what are the racial equity impacts of this particular and so you can apply that to like this departmental budget or this specific item in a budget. The second question. Who will benefit from or be burdened by this particular decision. So that gets you thinking about, okay. Who are who all are the different kinds of stakeholders that might be affected in some way by this particular budget decision. So this third question is interesting, you know, thinking about what happens if there are unintended consequences to this budget in some way. Are we thinking kind of upfront about how we might address those things in the event that they do happen. And those are very high level questions are not so it's not a very detailed kind of look at anything specific, but they I think they started conversation around embedding kind of those those social and economic and racial justice values into the discussion. And then quickly I'll just show you this. I shared this document late in the afternoon so I don't expect anyone had seen it, but it was it was a really interesting document from the city of Portland, Oregon, who has, and they have built. It's a lot more robust infrastructure for dealing with equity issues in their city government but they have built a tool that and this speaks to kind of a longer term process there they built a tool that city departments kind of embed into their budgeting process so everybody it seems it socialized throughout the entire city government. Budget, you know, my overall assessment of the budget. It's so it's questions like. Are you considering issues of equity in the budget overall. It's looking at things like. Is there anything in your budget that you've realized I'm missing. There's a change that either advance or hit equity issues. And then it moves to looking at specific programs or services. So for example, how does this program or service align with the goal of advancing equity and whatever your plan might be this is their particular plan that they're referencing. They've specifically called out some stuff around ADA so accessibility guidelines. And then on impacts of their own workforce. And then also interesting which was cool to hear Cameron you talk about the budget survey. There's a set of questions here about the public engagement involvement with the budget process. So understanding, you know, are you targeting are you looking at specific communities who might be marginalized and impacted by these more adversely than others. And are you kind of engaging with those folks that kind of discuss the possible inequities that a budget might include. Okay, so that's a lot of content I just threw at you. I think I just offer that up as an example. In my research of the kinds of, you know, it's not really a rubic it's kind of discussion questions that might help. Council think about the budget differently. Do you mind just scrolling over to the right there too. Yeah, or the identifying impacts worksheet. Yeah, this was in that same portal toolkit. And I mean this is this was kind of a more of a rubric type of tool to look at either different line items or perhaps different department budgets. And this as well because it, it kind of starts to break out groups stakeholders that might be impacted by each budget kind of line item, and then consider potential positive and negative impacts. Jeremy raises interesting question we did give the city council a tool kit, right. That was a year and a half ago. Is that right, Julia. Yeah, it was like summer 2019 when I final draft. Yeah. So can we resurrect that. I mean, I think it's, I think it's kind of gone buried, but can we pull it up and, and maybe pass it on remind them that we send it to them and send it to him again. I mean that much of what Jeremy is saying here. If I'm remembering it correctly. It's stuff that we, we included in what we sent. Is that your recollection Julia. Oh yeah, Shayna is that what you just sent out. That's why I just dropped in the chat yeah I couldn't I couldn't even find it in my computer to be able to reference you know. Yeah, so maybe if you know if it's close enough to the kinds of questions that Jeremy's found in the Portland, we can remind the city council that we have, you know, we worked on this and sent it forward to them and recommend that they use it in their, which is because that would that would eliminate pardon the cliche reinventing the wheel. I would argue against that Michael just looking at it not I mean I have no. I haven't seen in a long time so long time so I don't know looking at it it's for proposed efforts or initiatives right and it's a toolkit to walk you through the creation of intended outcome of an effort or initiative, which is not a guiding tool to to council to just have in their mind when they're making budget decisions right it's not a thing it's a toolkit for something completely different. But are the questions. This is how the criteria the same. No, no, I mean there's it's similar but if you look through it it's a pretty, it's a five page worksheet. Yeah, creating a proposal and if you're, if you're wanting something quick to give to council that states like those three questions that Jeremy said like just, yeah, okay, you know what are the racial impacts, who's going to benefit, and how do you mitigate unintended consequences of your cuts, or your additions back into the budget. That's pretty important. Okay, that's good. Yeah, the history of that document though that that like, so that equity worksheet came out of gear, which is, and like those three questions are sort of like those three or what sort of like the, like this the way that it's written here like if they feed into that document so they're sort of the bedrock of that document. So, it is, we can remind them like hey, we did that we did we started this work we sent this to you a while ago, this is connected to the work that we've been doing and that you have approved for a while. And here are these three basic questions that we encourage you to stay present with each, you know at each major intersection of the budget conversation. Yeah. And I, and I would recommend also like I liked that chart that was at the end from the Portland. Up there like I think I think it would be important to maybe even list out some populations we want them to be thinking about as they're in particular as they're like, how will this impact folks with disabilities how will this impact poverty and housing and stability how will this affect LGBTQ folks and yeah, here we go. Thank you. Your equity worksheet. Yeah. I have that spreadsheet up and then on my other screen I've got our monthly or focus group contacts for outreach to that might even get off another good way to kind of overlay them. I think it's almost just like a one page, like cover letter that would be helpful to to draft up being like, yeah, here are main questions that we want you to hold while having these conversations. Remember that we did this, please call on us as a resource is that I mean, does that feel like announced and appropriate for for next steps here. The letter would be the three main questions that the chart and the marginalized population and the list of marginalized populations. And on and pointing pointing back to the faculty toolkit. Right. But with the caution though that of what Cameron said that the equity that we that we sent them was for new things not. So we're asking them to use it adaptively not and we're not going to adapt it. We're asking them to ask those three questions I think like the look at these three quick three questions when you're looking at the budget make sure you're asking yourself these three things. Okay. And I think when Shayna said pointing back to that she meant family if I'm wrong Shayna, but I think my the way that I heard that was like, like, connecting the work like you've seen this before this is another iteration of work that you've seen before. Yeah, and I think it would be good to do it that way because there's, I think, three new cat to this there's new folks who have not seen it. So getting that in their hands as well as the time it specifically and easily which it sounds like this would do to the budget decisions that will be in front of everyone. Wow, that was a nice, nice work. I know it's efficient for us because of all the work you did. I'm so glad that you're a new memory. Yay, like this is so great. And what can we call it can you draft up this letter to circulate to our teams that we can like finalize by email me before Thanksgiving to send out. Yeah, I can put a draft together. You know, Lauren, there was some interest in a kind of like a thing like this grid over here. Is that a step too far. Is it really just about kind of like these bulleted questions. I like including it. I mean, you almost could make that the back like some people print out so if people. I mean, I could see actually as we're doing it, I think I would just encourage like people maybe jotting down notes or like really thinking through it in a way that just the questions. I different thinkers or learners might find it. Helpful. My only thing about finalizing steps remember you're not to respond all so making it a inappropriate public meeting so if Jeremy sends out a draft just send your reply to Jeremy so that he can make it a one thing. Then you send out a final don't have public conversations. Okay, thanks. That's not a reminder. Totally. Okay, for us to, is it can we, is it okay for us to say Jeremy will finalize this based on individual feedback from the group and then it will be final, like do we have through sending it to city council. No, if you not if you approve it right now, the for him to do that. Any concerns with Jeremy. Thank you for taking on this task finalizing our feedback and the most like it's leaning on Jeremy's work. All right. Awesome. Great happy to help. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, so exciting. That would be a good idea. I think to have it in the minutes as emotion. So I'll take it as Julia, Julia making I move that we authorized Jeremy to create a first draft, incorporate individual feedback and then finalize the draft to send to city council ahead of. Okay. Okay, awesome. I make a second. Okay. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Any opposed. Okay. Yeah. All right. Now we just have the whole rest of our agenda. Awesome. So, but I do, I think some of these things are pretty quick. I'm just, you know, fundraising check in. I was still thinking we could do this before it really gets on, but I just connected the belief of we're working on a, but a grant that's due January 15, that's like my and I, you know, had sent in a bunch, a couple of other individual questions and Julia has sent out thank you notes. Any other fundraising updates or check ins. I submitted a grant, I submitted a grant to the awesome foundation. Hey, that was awesome. Do you mind just sharing that so I like this can have all of the ones that we submitted. It's fine. It might have been. I just wanted to make sure that we had a full online form. Let me see. What are the, what's your, which are the ones that you just sent out. You said you just sent those two out. Before our last meeting. I haven't sent in a new proposal. Oh, yes, I have it. They sent me a copy. I can go forward into your channel. I just wanted to make sure that we have a full online form. I'm just trying to pretend to have some semblance of organization after losing this document that we said months working on. So. Thank you. Any, yeah, so about anything else. And either upcoming deadlines. That's looking to help with. Okay. Cool. We're going to have you publicly announced the grant that you got. We haven't gotten it yet. Oh, no, we did get that one grant. Yeah. Yeah. And then Michael, you had sent out an email saying that we should publicly recognize something or proud of press release while I was sick. And so I forgot what that was. Do you remember? I can try to pull it up. I know. How can I remember this morning. Sorry. I'm just remembering now. I don't know. I'm going to go through email and see if I can find it. Well, but as a next step, I will publicly announce our first grant and encourage people to. Support our work. Does that sound right? Cool. Okay. And so then for outreach. Why. I'm lost. So sorry. Okay. So we're planning and outreach. So Julia and I met with Keisha and Sue and Tabitha last week as well. Just to check, touch base again on, on our, on our plan. And I think the, the biggest thing that I wanted to share was to share our focus group contacts form. And just we would come up with like a tentative update about the point person and contact information. I wanted to check in and make sure that that looks right to folks and have, you know, folks kind of take on that, um, of ownership and responsibility. And then the other thing that they had flagged was of just wanting to get like the, uh, A commitment from the city around, um, Taking action on the recommendations coming out of this process. And just like thinking that we would get more, um, Often, you know, from participants, like knowing that by, you know, Volunteering their time or participating in this process, that there's going to be like an outcome from that, you know, in addition to the, the MOU or things like that. I'm just saying like, this is really important to this, like almost like a mission critical statement from the city. Um, am I, am I capturing that right, Julia? I'm seeing. Well, I want to know what they want. Like what the output is other than the commitment of our staff. Yeah. So, um, I missed what you said, Shayna. So forgive me if I might enter. I got. Forgive me if I repeat anything, but, um, I think it was, I think it was something like, like, Something she gave us an example, like the city commits to, um, Implementing like X, Y or Z within three to six months of this process ending or, you know, like, um, and then, you know, And I can't remember exactly how she put it, but she put it in this way where, um, It was sort of like something like the city commits to implementing at least like two things within three to six months that come out of the, the equity deep dive. Um, that are, you know, policy related and then like a longer term kind of commitment as well. Um, or. Yeah, I mean, I think a way to show that the city has teeth that they are willing to sink into this process and that when people participate, they know that there's going to be some sort of movement. It's not going to be like another time when people come and share their ideas and nothing happens. Um, so, you know, something low, like low hanging fruit related type of thing within three to six months. And we can ask again. Really, I mean, I'm fine with that. I mean, that's really the goal of this whole process for us. Um, you know, I'm still going to say things like I'm still going to have to have caveats like. Budget, depending honestly, if it's something that requires funding. But, you know, we're, this is the, this is, that's the why we're doing this. So there's a problem writing a statement like that. So I think maybe, maybe we could, it could be written so that like, you know, um, I imagine there will be budget neutral suggestions that will come out of this process. Um, and, you know, you could commit, I think we could sort of ask the city to commit to, you know, implementing immediately or like, again, within three months, like any budget neutral decisions that are like, like, yeah. And then, uh, looking at budget budget related ones for a longer term for a longer term. So that would be the, that would be a recommendation or whatever. Um, can I bring that to y'all your next meeting? A draft of what that would look like from the city. Yeah. And I'm just like, I think we're like addressing this to camera. And I'm also like, and what it. What would be one city council to also like. That would need to go in front. It would need to go in front of the city. Great. Cool. Yeah. Does that my goal would be to get you a draft. Um, I think that would be really helpful. I think that would be really helpful. By your next meeting, maybe to put it on council's agenda for the ninth. Wow. That would be really, really. You're ambitious. I'm trying. Um, you know, we're very budget focused right now, but I don't see why that couldn't be part and parcel of that. Consent agenda even more. Do you think that would be appropriate for that sort of space or. I was just thinking sounds like a good consent agenda thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're recruiting people we can be like, and, you know, we do have a commitment. Yeah. Okay. And so. There are two drafts you're talking about Cameron one to this. One to the, to Frazier for the staff and the one to the city council. No. It would just be the city. Um, I think it would be appropriate. To implement a couple of their recommendations within this time period. Um, it would just be a statement from the city staff and council sort of commitment. And they'd be willing to do that without knowing what the recommendations are. Well, yeah, I mean, that's. Right. Yeah. That's the thing. I mean, I think it's a big blanket to sort of, you know, you know, that's, that's sort of, I want to say that's the opportunity that we're facing here. You know, if we know what we don't know, and we're trying to get y'all and creative discourse to help us figure that out. And, you know, if it's something that could make this better and more equitable than, yeah, of course we're going to, we're going to try our hardest to do it. Like we're going to, we're going to act on recommendations. Like I imagine some of them will be like, they'll be able to do it. They'll be able to, you know, they'll be able to do it. And they'll be able to, like work to figure out what the implementation of that looks like. And stuff. So I think it's like that. We're going to pick up balls and keep them moving. One of the, I just did, if it helps. I'm just remembering the example that Kasia gave from their work in, I think when he was here, Burlington. Um, that they were working with elders. From. One of the one of the new American populations and they. They said it was literally low hanging fruit because they were wondering about being able to pick fruit from the tree. And so then that was something that this it was like budget neutral. And the city could make like an official ordinance, like to allow it. And it was implemented immediately. Yeah. Literally one. Yeah. Once in a lifetime. Yeah. We're going to see a lot of applesauce next year. And so then just like an update on timing for them, which we had kind of discussed last meeting as well, but realistically of starting the focus groups after kind of the SRO process that they're literally in right now is over. So looking at realistically starting in January and for these focus groups, wanting to have like a minimum of five people, if appropriate, and obviously if there's like, you know, tensions within, you know, like they would work, you know, with, with the, with the kind of active, active, or reas on in the community to make sure that it would be, you know, whoever is there, so like trusting and able to be able to share their perspectives and I want to figure something out, but ideally of having these you know, focus groups of at least five people, recommended that the first one that should pull together would be from with black and indigenous people of color folks on city staff. And then, but then they said it's not just city staff it's also in volunteer committees and people who were on staff or were in committees who have left. You know just wanting to kind of get those, those perspectives kind of first to help inform some of these other perspectives. And I also confirmed that we'll have like maybe a couple of these first focus groups before sending out the survey, but that the survey would be happening simultaneously with with while these focus groups are happening. And then having one kind of general big focus group for folks who are really interested with a preference for folks who have experiences like income challenges for curious housing, financial stress, things like that. And about that, that's my like, you know, sick, and all over the place. Yeah. Um, just a question do you think they'll help me write an email to our committees, asking for folks if they identify as like BIPOC if they want to come forward is, I feel like that could be a hard email. Yeah, I don't want to come across as blunt or exclusionary or something. I think I'm happy to take a shot at helping you draft that and then I think it would be great to run it by them. Yeah, thank you. I would appreciate that. You asked you if that the focus group for BIPOC folks on city staff and volunteer committee if that should also be LGBTQ plus individuals on city staff and committees. Okay, so I think we need to circle back with them on that back as well. So, great. My instinct is that that's going to be two very different experiences. I agree. I just didn't know how they wanted to engage with that, you know, larger population in our workforce. Yeah. Yeah, I think it. Yeah, I think that's all I would say and it yes it'd be helpful to hear from them but I would not be surprised if they said, like, let's keep it separate. Because I think the, the whole purpose of an affinity group like that is to have safety and yeah and and having, you know, white folks in by box base would be even if they're other marginalized groups, it would be not that potentially. So are you saying just for the purpose of the minutes of what who's doing what that we're not going to include the LGBTQ. So that's just a question I have if they want to if they would like me to I to ask my staff if they identify that way to be part of an affinity group that just wasn't called out and we were brainstorming as leadership. What groups we have internally that they might be interested in speaking to and that's one of our larger ones. Yes, I think the next steps are Julyable drafts and run an email by for inviting city staff and Shayna will ask Asia about other affinity group conversations. Thank you guys. Yeah. All right. I will draft, I will draft an email draft some language and then send it to you and you can make turn it up that into your own voice because I, I think you speak way more officially than I do. Yes, I dropped some y'all's and emails. Okay. Well, I think our last thing on this part of the agenda is looking at these focus groups and they recommended that there be a, a point person who would be really, you know, like, kind of hold down, like, inviting people and like, literally just like doing this scheduling of the meeting. And, and things like that. So this is what Keisha had sent over as like a recommendation and like, for example, like, I don't know any young people in my failure so I don't think that makes sense for me to take on. But they're asking for kind of us to put forward. If there are folks or other considerations that they should be aware of. So is anyone want to, yeah, volunteer for any of these or unvolunteer for any of these, or any other consider or volunteer other people for any of these. So again, like the responsibilities here is, is not to like, fully organize it and have all the relationships and everything else, but to, you know, really be responsible for making sure that the recruiting happens and for scheduling the focus groups. So, I'm going to, I think I'm going to volunteer for one of the groups, but I want to make sure I've got my role correct. So I think, I think I could be useful with the young people group. And here's why. So I am. I do participate a lot of things at the Unitarian Church, which does have a pretty solid core group of young people in their programming, which could be an end to some folks kind of in the teenage range is that what the young people group is. Yeah, and there's also like a racial justice alliance at the high school that has been very involved in over the past few years. So, yeah, and I think I have connections to some of the other kind of youth groups in the city. So I can take a take a lead on that and see how I do. Awesome. Well, I would help out with them just to take a few things off Cameron's plate there. I could help out with leaders of community led and community service or and but I camera and I come to you for some suggestions. If I may. Of course, thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. One of the things that I mean I will see by virtue of being on this Vermont community fund, I'll see applications from all these service organizations and that might know and at least they have an eye about I out for which which organizations might we want might we want to be looking at. And we get clarity on if they were comfortable with our fire department being included because in the police department. Public our public safety teams. Like to be included together they're facing similar populations. So it's monthly police. Okay. Well, I just, I'm interested in our in our team. We talked about how the fire department would like to be included. Okay. Julia, did we talk about that? I really can't remember it all. I'm sorry, I like, I, I'm getting sorry. Can you ask that question again. If it's going to be one pillar police and five, if they recommended one pillar police and fire or like vaguely remembering that they were like, we would trust, you know, the city to make the call of like, yeah, of happy you guys make the decision, but I don't. And you said they want them to be capped in five people. No, no, no. I was like, hello. We have some more of them. And then any other considerations that we should name right now and then as we're having conversations will have to, you know, adjust this or just anything else that's coming up right now that folks think we would need to be aware of. Well, I will say that because I did bring this topic to our leadership team. And our leadership team really does want creative discourse to get sort of an unbiased viewpoint. And so we really like to do sort of a random assignment, if you will. You know, I know that we have, we make personnel decisions all up and down our chain in every department right and so really trying to get a list of who those employees are, and then randomly assigning them to this. So we want as much diverse opinions as possible. We know that there's a lot of selection bias like self selection bias when people say I would like to be part of this group. We don't know if that would give a real accurate picture. So, that's how we would like to approach it if y'all have any other opinions on that. I'd love to, I'd love to know. I think, I'm just not sure if the folks that would volunteer would be the same mind of just folks told that this is something they're going to do. That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. Any concerns with that. I mean, I think that that sounds good and I'm sure that Kasia and the team are skilled at like, I mean, if somebody would not volunteer because there's something that not comfortable sharing in a group of their peers or something like I've seen it was going to be forced to share anything that they aren't comfortable with and I'm sure their facilitation will be make it a safe space. But just, I guess, like if you're kind of forcing people to do it making clear it's, it's to get the best possible information for, you know, making the city is inclusive and you know all the things we're striving for and that's the goal of it so it's, I'm sure it'll be handled great from your team and their team. I will add something Jeremy if you need help with that young people group my daughter goes to high school she's in ninth grade, and she work in the committee that Shayna, you know, mentioned before when she was a middle school, and you know I can reach out her teachers to they might help us. Just let me know if you need any help. Yeah, there's focus groups. Unfortunately, but through my kids. I will be able to reach out to you know school community. Yeah, I think that's great. Thanks. Yeah. I think that this chart over to me when it's when you're finished with it and I'll put it into the minutes. I'm dropping it in the chat right now. I apologize. I did not send it out with the notes with the agenda. And so, yeah, they also encourage this is like making a list of who you've reached out to because they're also doing independent outreach as well and so just so you're not we're not like having four people reach out to the same, you know, person as well, being like here are token, you know, person who works on immigration in Montpelier or something, you know, like just so we kind of have us have a sense of, we're not going to yet bombarding people or our things like that. But we won't be sharing those in this meeting or like publicly because it'll be like, here's all this person's contact information that we're reaching out to or something like that. Does that all make sense. I feel like I'm. How will we kind of keep coordinated around a master list. Yeah, if we can't share it. So I think that's if as each person's. Yeah, to share it directly with creative discourses. Yep, not kind of through us. Awesome. I think that was it for our outreach updates that anyone else just have any outreach, you know, conversations that they want to, you know, have had a bunch of conversations as a result of sending out all the letters that I sent out for joining the mailing list and that's been very helpful and you know, just getting one person for example couldn't know the difference between this group and the police review committee. And so I straightened that one out. And then other, a few other people, you know, contacted me and said that they would do it. Janet Claire is very interested in, in, in advertising what we do what we're doing through her newsletter. So, and she was going to either put the substance of my letter and the link into her December newsletter so we'll get her to go on it or she will write her own article and use that link, but we'll get more seniors involved in that way. So, I mean I just sort of cast it was like selling wheat you know just throw about out a bunch of scenes and a surprising number of people responded so that's that's good. And so for a little bit of the feedback I got in trying to recruit BIPOC folks for the, for the, that focus group. I had shared last meeting that that I didn't have the folks I had reached out to didn't necessarily have enthusiastic responses. And so I had a longer conversation with one friend and I shared some of it with Kasia and Sue and it seemed like the kind of stuff that they're sort of like didn't surprise them that they've heard before, but I thought it was important for us all to know it. And a lot of what you know a lot of what she said was like, you know, a lot of what you're a lot of when focused when this happens and you sort of like asked by pop folks to come together and like share their experiences first of all a lot of what you're looking for could be found with data. And could be found like before you call anybody into the room like make sure you know exactly what you're asking so that it's actually worth their time. And most of the time it's not because people haven't done their homework before it's more like, oh, there's some black people let's hear what they say. So making sure that we're not doing that. I think she talked a lot about, you know, maybe she's she made the recommendation that maybe we have that we hold that focus group toward the end of the process to say, here's what we've found. Like, how does it strike you. And, you know, that saying, making sure the questions are very that we're looking at a sort of a very specific way. So rather than just sort of saying generally what's your experience of Montpelier, like, she was like, you know, what, how do I know what to answer how do I know which parts of my experience to talk about like, I don't I'm not like, you know, daily interacting with city government so like I don't know what to tell you know so she was saying to make sure that by the time we get to the point that we're convening that group that we should have already have some very specific questions in mind that they would they can give very specific feedback to so that they know that it's going to be worth their time and energy. And, and also me I think that was one of the, when Keisha recommended having us commitment ahead of time from the city. That it be very clear in our like mark marketing efforts to get people into the into the focus groups that that this is going to be used. This is like they were were committing to this being useful rather than just like another time for you to like, you know, open up your life and tell us, tell us things that are important to you and then see enough to see nothing happen once again. Thanks for sharing that. I'm happy to hear that your, your friend was able to kind of speak honestly about their experience it's really useful. I was very grateful for that. Awesome. So then the only other things on our agenda here are of any other business or any police committee updates for Michael any SRO updates from Julia or any other updates or things that people want to raise before just reviewing next steps and checking in our next meeting date. Also, Lauren is on that committee also. Oh, I did not realize that. Thank you. Well, we had our first meeting and it was good we have a, we have a well organized chair. And so she, she sort of worked us into shape right off. That was good. And we talked about what our agenda for the coming months is going to be what were the issues that are, and started getting references to data that we should be looking at in order to have this conversation. What am I leaving out? What am I leaving out Lauren? No, that was most of it. I mean the only other thing that I think it's worth us thinking about was the issue was raised as like part of the charge of that group was stakeholder and community outreach and we were wondering like, is there information we could be gathering from the community outreach and stakeholder outreach that's already going on that helps inform that discussions we're not asking having to do the same kind of recruitment again or asking the same people to do a different process. So I'm, you know, being sensitive to not wanting to take over or derail or undermine other information we could get or if, you know, so I was just curious to get roles, thoughts and reactions to, can we do both or a little bit of both or, or how we might be able to do that or maybe it's like just a conversation with creative discourse and see what they think. That I just wanted to raise that see what you all think. I mean we can obviously ponder this is not something that has to be decided immediately but if they're going to start in January if there would be like a piece of it that would be getting information specifically on people's interactions experiences with our police department. A piece of that. I want to think through that with creative discourse and it feels right or good to this group. Again, not wanting to like take over that process in any way. It feels like coordinating these efforts is really important. The danger is a kind of participation fatigue. The danger is particularly with kind of, you know, our BIPOC folks or other kind of underrepresented groups, we're asking them to be kind of professional advisors, which speaks to some of the concerns Julia just raised. So those those outreach is those contacts have to be really meaningful and clear. And so, yeah, I think, you know, transparency and coordination among these efforts seems to make such great sense. We're a very small community when it comes down to it. I wonder too about so it seems like Shayna we should bring that to a question. Yeah. And, and Lauren and Michael like I wonder if in in light of that sort of specific question idea. If there were some specific questions that the that your committee is looking at or asking, rather than like what do you think about police but like if there was something in particular. Maybe maybe something that we could advocate for being part of the conversation with creative discourse like the focus groups that we do. Yeah, I mean, I think if we got, if we have the initial conversation with creative discourse and I think it could be incorporated and I think the police review committee could talk about what specifically would we want to get out of that. So, yeah, and make sure to to your earlier point of like, meaningful conversations that have like can lead to outcomes and all of that that. Yeah, totally hear you. So, yeah, so if we've got till January, I think that committee's meeting every two weeks. Also, we'll have a couple meetings probably before the maybe two, we have two meetings before the end of December. And those meetings are earlier in the week there on Monday so we can report back to you. That's awesome. Yeah. Although today is a long time to keep things in your memory. Yeah, as we were saying, it's like last week, six years ago, I don't know. Thank you guys. And then any update from the SRO conversations. It's moving pretty slowly. I'm not sure they're going to come their charge was to come up with a recommendation about SRO no SRO by December and it's not looking like that. I am not sure that that's going to happen. That is me editorializing that's not anybody else saying that but So it'll be interesting to see what happens. Thanks for participating for bring back. Yeah. Um, any, anything else for next steps. So I think the next steps that I've got here and Michael would love for your note taking to do a firm here. We'll draft the letter to the city around equitable budgeting, circulate to see draft committee for individual feedback, and then send that final draft to Cameron. Is that right. Okay. And then Cameron will send it to the city. That makes sense. Okay. Julia will draft and run an email by for invitating invitations to to city staff. And we'll ask creative discourses around LGBTQ plus staff conversations. And everyone will build and this question around policing conversations. And everyone will build their outreach list and share directly with creative discourses and continue to have these average conversations and Cameron will draft a city commitment from the city. And circulate that what is the next step there. Okay. I'd love to have feedback on that. Um, and then everyone will also continue with all of their fundraising commitments and outreach commitments as, as pre determined. Does that does that sound right. Is there any missing things. Okay. Yeah. I dropped a lot of balls last time. So I'm like, kind of just like copy and paste those to this week. Okay. And so then our next meeting that we've all got is December. You know, next Thursday, December 2nd, same time, 530 to seven is in Julia will also be be late there. But at that time still, still work for folks still plan on doing them. Well, they keep it scheduling the SRO meetings at the same time as this. So that's why I've been like, but I don't think we're going to be able to do that. Yeah. And so I think on our agenda for, for that meeting is just a, I guess we'll just have like a slew of updates. So maybe just like an update section, which will include the updates around the budgeting process. But I don't think we'll need to have like another budgeting conversation. I don't anticipate. And then we'll have the kind of work plan and outreach check in and the fundraising check in. And I don't know if we have other agenda items, so it might be a pretty quick meeting as anything else that folks think we have, we should have on our agenda for the second. I definitely think we should still have it to just touch base on this outreach, because there are so many outreach next steps, but okay. So can we talk about other projects? Or we will be talking all this creative discourse. Project, you know, we have, I'm very happy. I learned a lot. We are doing a lot, but it has been really time we were focusing and talking. Same thing. We're over. I'm just wondering if we have any action plan like a. Future or long run. Helen, I just talked to Jeremy about this, this morning. I'm just like, right, do we want to do more like strategic planning or what, as a committee, we want to do. We, we did a strategic planning process last winter. And that led us to, you know, wanting to hire consultants and go through the consulting process in order to follow their lead on what to prioritize and how to, how to like best spend our time as a, as a committee. And so like from, from that process, I think we, we were kind of saying like, we will respond to requests from the city council around specific. Agenda items, you know, or like, if there's like things that are brought to the city that they want feedback on, so you guys will respond, but not of necessarily taking on our own projects and initiatives. Am I, am I capturing that right, Michael? I think you're the. Really hop off. Is that, is that. COVID might create lots of social inequality. So we have to be ready, right? We have been talking about one more year, which will affect lots of families. So I was just thinking, do we have any plan beforehand? Not when it's really, when we really see the impacts, but beforehand, if you think about something and we will be ready. I don't want to take your time so we can talk about it next meeting. No, yeah. Or maybe I'll touch base with you between now and then to just like, yeah, there are a lot of, you know, organizations, individuals in Montpelier that are, are doing a lot of this like direct service work, mutual aid work. And I, I don't, yeah, I'm not sure what our role is kind of in that, in that matrix, you know, I saw a lot of people unmute themselves though. So I want to hear from everyone else. Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I felt like one of the, one of the goals and points was like, we had been picking some projects that we were kind of interested in. And then we, when we decided to hire the consultant, it was like, let's hear from the community instead of us, you know, like me speaking as a pretty privileged white person of like, what I think we should be working on. And so I, so it was really hoping to like get the kind of input we're going to be getting in the coming weeks to inform like, where shall we be focused? And like to me, you know, like, I, like, I love the idea of like the commitment to make sure that like, and this group, I think the follow-through of like, what are we hearing from the community? And then what are the action steps to do it? So that's kind of how I see the flow of this year going. And I love the idea of like, it's, you know, where are the things knowing we're going to be in tough times. Like, yeah, well, can we be doing as soon as possible that are like helping prepare for, respond to. I love that. Trying to think ahead as much as possible, but I don't know, that was, that was how I had, you know, felt process-wise, like we were thinking about it for now, but yeah, it's been a lot of like contract work. Yeah. Cameron, did you have something else to add? I just thought you came up with that too. Okay. No, I just wanted to see if you wanted to add that as a discussion topic to the next agenda, but we are having the discussion. Yeah. Maybe let's, yeah, let's circle back on it. Yeah. That sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you all. It's after seven. So I do want to let folks go. Thank you so much for this really. Yeah, great conversation. Jeremy. So glad you're part of this team and did all that work. It's great. You're welcome. Happy to do it. Good to be here with you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Michael and everyone else. Yeah. Everyone. Don't travel. Oh yeah. Anywhere. Thank you. Shane and Cameron, you'll send me notes so that I have. I have your stuff too. Yes, you're going to have really regret that. Mine are crazy today. But. Well. I mean, I can, I always can barely read what I. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how to help set cues from somebody else. Thank you. All right. All right. All right.