 and creative zone. We have a very special guest today, we have creative powerhouse, Hayden's got this group creative director of famous innovations. Hi Hayden, how have you been doing? Hi, I'm Espa. Getting by, yeah, like the rest of us I suppose. So, I want to start by asking you that how has this experience been creating a remote captivity, how have you been wrapping this and you know how has created a concept and changed for Wow, those are a lot of questions. I'm going to try and answer them one at a time. I think I think first, I think it's funny that you mentioned the word grappling, right, because that's usually a word we use for wrestling and mountaineering. And that's pretty much what the last few months have been. It's been a bit of an uphill climb. But I think I think the main challenges that I'm really seeing that we're all really seeing is that is keeping people's morale high. You know, it's difficult. It's not all that easy. And also respecting people's limitations, people are working from home. We have to also understand that they're not just doing our job, they're doing a lot of housework and stuff as well. So and also most importantly, the most important thing for a creative person staying happy and motivated. So that that part is that part is the difficult part really. The creativity part is a little bit harder because we are I think that I speak for the industry when I say that we are all missing the human side of the business, you know, the whole thing of going out for a for a secret break or a coffee break and jamming over lunches, arguing with each other over insights, you know, and I think we're missing that. But but that haven't been said. I believe the industry in general has really rolled with the punches and really really gotten, I think a little more productive and creative over the last few months. And everyone will say that we have we've never been more busy. So I think I think that's I hope I answered your questions. Your work was kind of like, you know, speech for that. So I also want you to kind of take us through your work for Burger King. And how did it all come together? And if there's any other campaign also that you're very proud of that you've done the lockdown, if you can take us through, you know, how putting it together despite the larger execution challenges. Sure, sure. So I think I think we did we did a couple of really cool pieces for Burger King. The last few months. And I think one piece which I'm very proud of which is a piece done for platinum days of love. So I'll talk to you, I'll talk you through both of these. Okay, so the first one, the Burger King piece was we did impact we did two films, one was based on this, this concept that during the lockdown, a lot of families have been separated. So Burger King really brought them together by giving them free whoppers. So wherever your your family is in in the country, they would get a free whopper along with you. And, and that's how we really got people together. The second was a very, very cool fun idea called bail me out BK, which had a very counter intuitive approach, right, where we actually got first time chefs, all right, chefs who are actually cooking for the first time and will probably mess up 100 times before they actually get that banana bread, right? You know, we actually got those guys to actually share their cooking fails on on Instagram. And we told them, you know, what, it's okay if you if you completely burnt your lunch, we'll send you a whopper in return. So it was a lot of fun making these and what was interesting was that was that these films were shot and conducted entirely, I can even call it a shoot, they were conducted entirely over WhatsApp and zoom, you know. And I think that was a that was a really, really crazy experience. And the platinum film very funnily so was was shot across maybe I think I think two continents because we had we had our main actress sitting in Goa and our actor sitting in Columbia, which is where Pablo Escobar is from. All right. And okay. And so we literally shot a film across continents without ever leaving our living rooms. And I think that's that's that's unreal. Right? So yeah, super. So this entire situation has also brought in a great deal of people in the baby. So you know, where do you see the green shoots of opportunity and the positive that's brought in? Like for example, a lot of creatives tell me that they've learned so many production hacks in these days. Some I also see that you know, some of them have done work on their own on domestic violence on depression, not for the agency, but just by themselves. So where do you see the positive? So firstly, I just want to say that that that I genuinely believe that that historically when something when something big or or cataclysmic actually happens, it's followed by something which is always better. I can historically look at stuff like the French Revolution, the Indian freedom struggle, even the Spanish for the world was all these things they sound they sounded horrible and they were horrible at the time. Alright, but what followed was a period which was which was a period filled with innovation ideas and a lot of self motivation. I think that's exactly what's happening to the advertising industry today. I honestly believe that we are on the cusp of a golden agent communication, you know, where we're going to start to see. Yes, like you mentioned, a lot of self motivation, which is great. We're also going to start to see a lot of leaner agencies. We're going to start to see faster response times because clients want to move really, really fast on ideas, more ideas that that whole that whole approach of actually actually going to a client with one idea and take it or leave it. That's over. Right. And we're definitely going to be seeing lower thresholds for wastage, bigger budgets, bigger, bigger budgets, bigger appetites for experimentation really. And these are all I think more than green shoots. I think these are all all fabulous things for creativity and clients are clients are going to be pampered. Amazing. So apart from also speaking about the positives, in terms of limitations, what according to you have been the larger execution limitations, if I to ask you, the larger execution limitations, as in you're talking about shoots or you're talking about general creating anything that are just limitations while working from home for an industry that, you know, kind of loves going out, team chemistry and all that. So I think definitely the biggest limitation, like I mentioned earlier, is this whole thing of not being able to be physically there. You know, it may it may seem like a small thing, but it's a it's a huge deal for us advising people because we really thrive on actually looking at client in the eye, you know, and and explaining an idea or selling an idea. And it's really hard to do because sometimes clients have their videos off on zoom, you know, and you're and you're literally pitching an idea to an alphabet. You know how that works, right? It's crazy, right? So you're you're actually pitching an idea or a concept to an alphabet and it's it gets it gets a little lonely. I have to say that. But I think I think we're doing a lot in terms of the fact that as as an agency famous, we connect and we talk a lot because we have understood very early on the importance of not staying silent. You know, we are all sitting in different parts of the city, different parts of the country. And we are all it's important for us to all still feel like we are part of one agency and we are still going to work every day. You know, so so every morning, in fact, that's the reason why I'm late for this call, miss Bob is is because we have a 1030 call every morning, regardless of where we are, what's happening 1030 to 1130. It's it's pretty much sacred time for us where we will sit and we will just discuss everything under the sun. We'll talk about new ideas and opportunities. And that's really how we're dealing with it. We speak to our teams a lot more. And I think I think it's important to just have a conversation and not be silent. That's really how we're dealing with these things. That's amazing, because otherwise, a lot of people have told me that now it's getting a little more transactional in the sense that, you know, you call each other only to work and all that. But that's terrible. Yeah. That's right. So also this entire situation has led to more digital adoption, obviously, and it's largely moving from the conventional tracking the TVC to now digital. So while there are already agencies that specialize in this situation, how equipped are creative agencies now? Okay. So I genuinely believe that now, like I said, a little earlier is is the is the golden age we're on the cusp of the golden age of creativity, you know, a lot of people said that, you know, that got over in the sixties, but I genuinely believe you're on the cusp of something great. And now is the time for ideas and and not just like what a traditional networks would call the big idea. But now's the time for many big ideas. Okay, and many such points of engagement. And I think creative agencies are are read to understand and believe in ideas and they get it. All right. And they get the fact that an idea cannot just be a couple of social media posts. All right. So I feel for me, at least the question is not so much about how equipped creative agencies are, it's about how agile creatives are to create not just one, but many ideas and a shorter span of time. And I personally feel that if you're still approaching work from a bowl, let's crack the TVC kind of an approach first, then I think you're in the wrong decade and the wrong industry. Well said. So also another question. So when we started off, we saw a lot of things are being shot on the phone, as we shot on the phone, we saw the content which we still see. But did you kind of see your saturation in the middle? And do you think that that has a craft has evolved and an industry have evolved in terms of the craft now? So I think I think, yes, people are still going to be shooting on their phones for a very long time. And that's something that we have to get used to. Craft is not going to die in this buy. I feel like it's only going to get better despite what TikTok videos would tell you, where TikTok videos are all about the shittier the video, the more viral it goes. But I think at least with the advertising industry, that craft is not going to go away because at the end of the day, there's like you mentioned, there's going to be a saturation point. There's going to be a point where people are going to be saying, okay, there are only so many camera camera phone videos that we can watch. And then once upon a time, boom, one client is going to spend one CR on a film, two CR on a film, and suddenly all the clients are going to follow. So I feel it's it's it's very cyclical. And it's like a seesaw really. So it's this is what we're seeing right now. Everyone will jump on the bandwagon very soon, that saturation point will be reached. And very soon, we will be back to big budget films again. That's right. So what do you say that it's all about the idea that holds you together, rather than the medium? Absolutely, absolutely. In fact, in fact, I think this is further to your question earlier, where you said our creative agencies better equipped than than everyone else or other, or other digital agencies better equipped than creative agencies to handle this. No, I don't think so because I think I think what our founder Raj always says is that he's he's of the opinion that the idea is the train. The idea is the is the train and creative is the platform, you know, so so I think I think it's it's it really comes from there where where it's not so much about the about the platform. It's not so much about where you're really hosting the idea. It's about where the idea really comes from. I think that's that's what So lastly, COVID-19, as we know, is a humanitarian crisis and a lot of our watchers globally are speaking about not factoring work created for these times. So what would be your message for brands and new agencies on, you know, how they should create work on COVID-19 without being exploitative and using it as a mere marketing ploy like, while having a conversation. Right. So I think I think we have to be very clear with one thing that we are going to be living with COVID for a long time. I mean, there's there's no there's no doubt about it. It's going to take a lot more than a year to get a vaccine and and probably get a vaccine to the rest of the population. So it is the it is the zeitgeist of the times we are living in. Okay. And advertising and marketing at its heart is about creating stories that really mirror society. Right. So my question is how long will a watch shows actually ban COVID-19 ideas? Like, we really have to normalize this and move forward. You know, and it happened. It's there. How can my brand say something that's fresh or interesting? And I honestly believe relevance has never been more important. Now, every, every idiot who has spent the last few years talking about brand purpose, but now they're all scared because they have to live up to this purpose. So for me, that's where communication in the future will be. It's about staying true to what your brand brings to the table and staying true to your company's values. And that and that alone, according to me, will really keep your work from appearing exploitative or redundant. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time and for this very beautiful, beautiful insights. We look forward to kind of meeting you at our office if things get back to normal. Let's, let's hope fingers crossed. Thank you so much. Stay safe. Take care.