 So, thank you everyone for joining to our webinar on LGBTQI plus inclusivity in science and easy guide to pronounce organized by the EGU pride group. They do pride group was kind of founded in 2019. We now have a discord channel that we meet. We organize activities. We also coordinate with the EDI committee of each year. For the upcoming General Assembly 24, watch out for the pride group short course that we're organizing and also keep an eye out for other activities that are going to appear in the program. So since last year or this year, we have the very important news that we can actually add our pronouns on benches and this is what inspired this webinar. Let me introduce to you our speakers. First, we're going to have better PhD student at ITC university of 20 researching the impact of sea level rise on cost lines. Then we're going to have a PhD student in the quantum hub university of Birmingham researching the application of emerging technology in ideology. The third part was going to be presented by Ray who unfortunately cannot attend. So it's going to be presented by Anna Ray is PhD student at GFZ Boston, Germany. The researchers are researching ecological of biological community, developing on green and ice sheet and Hannah is a postdoc at GFZ as well, researching planetary scale landscape evolution. So the outline of this webinar are going to be about delivering 3k messages as well. The first part is what our pronouns is going to be presented by Bennett. The second part is about etiquette of to use the pronouns presented by Ellie and the third part is about senior day presented by Ray and or actually by Anna now. So, now I can stop sharing and I let Bennett take over. Thank you very much. Hi, I'm Anna. And I will start with a quick introduction to all these letters that describe our community. So there are four letters that have to do with sexuality. These are a l for lesbian G for gave before bisexual and the A stands for a sexual. The T stands for transgender that's related to the gender identity and is independent from sexuality. Q for queer can describe both sexuality and gender is sometimes also used to describe the entire LGBT community. But literally queer actually means something like strange about 100 years ago that was used to insult homosexual people. And only in recent decades the recruit was reclaimed by the LGBT community. But just keep in mind that especially for older generations that might still bring up bad memories of feelings. So the next letter is the I that stands for intersex. That's related to something we call the biological sex, although even in a biological sense, there are actually more than two sexes. What we usually mean when we describe someone as intersex is that their physical anatomy does not align with what we expect to see in a typical woman or a typical man. So when you're making yourself familiar with these terms, then please note that each of these labels also has an opposite. It's very important because in most parts of society being heterosexual and cisgender and under sex and allosexual is considered to be the default. Everything else is the deviation from this default. That makes the lives of LGBT people just harder than necessary. Please under all circumstances avoid using the word normal. If you're looking for a very short term, you could for example use cis hat as an abbreviation. But today's topic is about pronouns and pronouns are often important to gender diverse people. So we will dive a bit deeper into the terminology around gender identity. But language evolves over time and what we consider to be respectful terminology today might not be so appropriate anymore in a few years. So please keep educating yourself. And in case of doubt, it's always the best to use the words a person asks you to use for them. But every person has a gender assigned at birth. So that means when you were born, someone, most often a doctor or a nurse assigned a gender to you. And the gender is either typically either male or female. So for some people, this gender assigned at birth also aligns with the gender identity. For example, someone is assigned female at birth and also feels comfortable living as a woman. Then we would call this person a cisgender woman. But for some people that the gender assigned at birth is not the same as the gender that they feel comfortable to live with. And at some point in their life, they might decide to live as the opposite gender. So a woman who was assigned male at birth is called a trans woman and a man who was assigned female at birth is called a transgender man. So you might also sometimes encourage gender to be cissexual or transsexual. But over time, the terminology shifted more to using cisgender and transgender to make clear that it's not about sexuality, but about gender identity. But not all trans people are male or female. So for some people, their gender identity comprises both genders, or it is somewhere in between the extremes of the gender spectrum or force outside of the spectrum, or maybe they don't have a gender at all or the gender fluctuates over time. So there are a lot of possibilities and we collect these under the umbrella to non-binary. So that's not the same as being intersex because intersex is related to the physical anatomy. So intersex people can also be cisgender, transgender or non-binary. So very important is this, all these words are adjectives. So please don't refer to someone else a transgender. That's very dehumanizing and very often used by transphobic people. So use it as an adjective to describe a noun. For example, a transgender person or a cisgender person or a non-binary person. So now that we have all these adjectives to describe a person's relation to the gender assigned at birth, we want to talk about the pronouns because pronouns and are together with names often expressed to use to express a person's gender identity. So as more and more people decide to change the names and pronouns, there are some more and more people apparently having problems with that. So in this example, a member from a headline from a latest this year, a member from the British Parliament said that pronouns are a problem. They're artifact-based ideologies and are probably very dangerous for children. So there seems to be a lot of confusion, but what are pronouns really? We're going to solve this puzzle now, but you first get the opportunity to test your knowledge. So this is a short newspaper paragraph article, newspaper article paragraph that contains actual pronouns. And your task is now to remove the pronouns as I read it. The former heart of a sixth form college who is now an education advisor said, the safeguarding issues here are real. One Friday I was working late and a kid arrived who had been really smashed up after telling her parents they were transgender. College was the only place they felt safe. He accused the government of creating an atmosphere of fear and which young people no longer felt they could turn to teachers for support. So this is the solution. This text contains nine words that qualifies pronouns. I guess the more obvious ones are words like he or they, but actually words like who and which also qualify as pronouns. In summary, or as a rule of thumb, we can say that pronouns replace notes. And that's especially true for personal pronouns. So in this example, we are your host. You could also replace the we with all the names saying Anita, Hannah, Ellie and Beane are your hosts. But for each personal pronoun, we also have a possessive pronoun. In this example, the stage is yours. Yours is also a pronoun. And for each personal product, we have a reflexive program. But at least with, with, with self and selves that we feel back to a pronoun that was used earlier. And sometimes in this example, kids know themselves best. So this and that are also pronouns and the demonstrative pronouns that refer to an idea or concept. I mean, this rather infamous example, this is a result of using method X. So this is referring to something that was mentioned earlier. The relative pronouns introduce a relative clause. So this gives us more information about the first part of the sentence. This example, the person who comes first gets the prize. So who refers to a person we don't know yet. Interrogative pronouns introduce a question, for example, what is the time. And indefinite pronouns refer to an entire group of things or people or concepts. So it can be something like everything is finished. Also nothing is finished. So these are a lot of words, but please just remember the two mind messages. So pronouns are a very important part of our language. And it seems to be a very bad idea to just remove them. But when you talk about pronouns in the context of LGBTQIA plus inclusivity and especially gender identity, we usually mean the pronouns that refer to people in a third person. Because these words have something to do with gender. So for example, she, he or they and the related possessive and reflexive pronouns. These are the words that we're talking about here. So that's everything from me and with that I will hand over to Ellie. And next we're going to talk a little bit about how to use pronouns now that we so hopefully know what they are. So one of the first questions that we commonly get one of the first things that we start to think about when we are beginning to think about pronouns more carefully and how we're using them is what what do I do if I make a mistake. So I deal with that. So we have some little little tips for just those scenarios. So the first thing is not to draw attention to the mistake that you've made. Simply correct yourself immediately and carry on the conversation as normal. If you don't realize your mistake until later, make sure to go to the person that you've misgendered personally and apologize. Keep it brief that apology is for them and it's not about you and just own up to that mistake. If you're in conversation with other people and someone else makes a mistake, simply continue to use the correct pronouns for the person you're referring to throughout your conversation. And then later address that individual being discussed and ask if they would like you to actively correct others using the wrong pronouns. We can try to consider starting meetings by going around the room and sharing our names and pronouns collectively that can help people feel comfortable about using new pronouns at work. We can also begin discussions about pronouns with colleagues that we've known a long time by sharing our own pronouns and new knowledge of their use. This can kind of open that dialogue where they might share if their pronouns are different than they have been in the past. If someone is introducing themselves with new pronouns or sharing pronoun change with you personally. That is not an invitation to discuss someone's gender identity in depth or ask any personal questions is best just to say thank you so much for telling me I move on with your day. So why should we be conscious of our use of pronouns, even in professional settings. Well, because having respect for our colleagues is a cornerstone to a good professional relationship. This respect extends across many areas of personal interaction from approaching professional criticism with courtesy to addressing someone using their correct name. In order to promote an environment where we can support our colleagues and work together to produce the best outcomes possible. It's important to address them in the way they ask to be addressed. A lot of allies feel like this is kind of a niche issue that doesn't affect that many people or if it does it doesn't really affect people that badly. But we can see just from these statistics that actually that's not true. This affects quite a large number of people and can seriously impact how they feel at work and in themselves. So next we'll talk a little bit about talking about pronouns at conferences, especially the EGU General Assembly. So it can be really useful to get into the habit of starting that dialogue by revealing your own pronouns to anyone that you're meeting and that helps them feel more comfortable sharing theirs. EGU and the General Assembly you can also check people's pronoun tags on their identification cards so you can see there on Bene's ID their pronouns are at the bottom. It's really important to make sure that you've either had a look at someone's identification tag and made sure you check their pronouns or ask them in person and simply said, would you mind sharing your pronouns before you start introducing them to other people you might know. It's really important when we're starting to talk about pronouns professionally that we're not singling anyone out. This can alienate them and make people feel really uncomfortable. The easiest way to tackle this issue is by making the culture in your working environment one where everyone is encouraged to share their pronouns, regardless of their gender or how long they've been working there. Initiating conversations about pronouns by providing your own can be a really subtle way to let new colleagues know that you're keen to respect their personal identity. It is really important to protect new colleagues from having to correct their pronouns, especially in large group settings. How can we navigate it when people might be using multiple pronouns as we're kind of starting this journey that can be a bit daunting. So it's really important to not always use one or the other. We need to try and get comfortable into changing two sets of pronouns when we're talking about one individual. And if we're focusing so hard on that, it can be tricky not to fall into the trap of always alternating pronouns just to make sure that you're using both. As you kind of become more comfortable with this, you'll find a sort of rhythm where it's not confusing and not forced either. When we meet people who prefer not to have pronouns used for them, so the no pronouns tag. We've learned, thankfully from Benne that actually we can just replace pronouns with proper nouns with that person's name. So we can just keep using their name when we're talking about them instead of any pronouns. And if we do meet people who are comfortable using any pronouns for themselves, then we just need to be sure that we're always checking with them if they're comfortable using it and it's or any neo pronouns we might have heard of. Just because someone says they're comfortable or prefer any pronouns that is not a free pass to objectify them or choose one set that you prefer for them exclusively. And with that, I'll hand on to Hannah. I'm going to take over from Ray and present their slides on Singular Day. So as Benny and Ellie have shown, there are three commonly used pronouns in English. These are she which is typically feminine. He which is typically masculine and they which is typically neutral. This neutral singular day has been around for a while, but it's becoming more and more common in English language. And it's also being used more and more by people who feel more comfortable using non gendered pronouns. This can be confusing for people who are not yet used to this. I'm going to use the next few minutes of this webinar to introduce you to the topic of Singular Day. And we'll go deeper into this particular pronoun. So Singular Day in short is an inclusive and grammatically correct way to speak about singular gender neutral. It has a lot of advantages. It's inclusive, quite short, much shorter than any other forms such as he or she. And it's good for people who don't identify with a specific gender or who don't want to reveal their gender. So the usage of singular day is actually also accepted and encouraged by the New Oxford dictionary and Merriam Webster. So it is definitely a correct pronoun to be used in English language. And it also has a fairly long history. So Singular Day as a pronoun has been in use in English language since the 14th century. One of the earliest recording recorded usages is in a medieval poem, William and the Werewolf from 1375. This has also been used in by many English writers such as Chaucer, Shakespeare and Jane Austen. And Shakespeare was supposedly quite, he quite liked to use the form Singular Day and so you see it in quite a lot of plays. For example here, there's not a man I meet but does salute me as if I was a well acquainted friend from a comedy of errors. There was some controversy arose in the 18th century about the use of Singular Day, but that didn't stop Jane Austen from using Singular Day during the 18th century. So if we look more now at the usage of Singular Day, we can see the versatility and the benefits of using Singular Day in various examples. So the first example, one of the new students needs help. Would you please help them? This is useful if you're unaware of the gender of the new student or if you're unsure of the gender of the new student. This person gave us permission to share their work. They specify details that we should consider. This is useful if you want to potentially conceal the identity of the person sharing the work or you don't feel it's relevant. TAM submitted their thesis today. In this example, TAM uses they, them pronouns. My partner is coming today. I saved a spot for them. My partner is becoming a more popular usage of girlfriend, boyfriend or husband wife at spouse being another equivalent. And essentially this is a good usage for when you don't feel that the gender of your partner is relevant. You don't feel comfortable revealing the gender of your partner, or you don't feel that it's necessary in the conversation to reveal the gender of your partner. Finally, oh, this computer has been here for hours. Have you seen TAM? I think it's theirs. This is another example of a person using they, them as pronouns. So in terms of the grammar of they, them, Ben has already covered some of the grammar, but I will go specifically on to they and it's used in the same way as you with a plural conjugation. So for instance, he or she is, you are, and they are. This was some, this was where some of the controversy arose because singular should have is as a conjugation, not are. And actually some usages of the singular they do actually use is however it's uncommon, but they are is still grammatically correct. And so it's perfectly fine to use that. Because she does, and you do, and they do with the incorrect version being you does and they does. So you and they have the same conjugations, but they is still singular and you can also be singular. Themselves is used, but themselves is also a pronunciation or a spelling. And both usages are commonly accepted, generally with the divergence being between American English and British English. And there are other gender neutral pronouns. And one's assumption would be that potentially the usage of it could be a gender neutral version of a pronoun. But the thing with, with the it pronoun is it's historically used for inanimate objects or animals. So referring to somebody as it, if they explicitly did not give you permission to do so is quite dehumanizing, and also can be quite disrespectful. You prefer to use the pronouns it, but only if they specifically asked you to use those pronouns, should you use it for a human. This rule is also the case with the German neutral pronoun, where it's not common to use it as a personal pronoun. There's also another alternative, which is neo pronouns, neo pronouns have become a lot more popular in recent years as a way to explore one's gender identity and question gender society. And they're often based on nouns. So they can be a little bit confusing. If you have any uncertainty about how to pronounce them, how to use them, then ask the person who's using the new pronouns, they will be able to advise you best. Over time, languages and in particular words have changed to better reflect modern use. This is how languages naturally evolve and how languages change to better fit modern society. So when referring to a vehicle, such as a rocket or a boat that is capable of transporting human passengers, the old terminology was manned. This was perfectly acceptable because in many, in many early, early, early periods. It was actually not allowed for women to go on boats. And so nowadays this is obviously not the case. The new terminology better reflects the gender diversity of the crew. And so we use the word crude, the terminology for man is falling out of fashion because crude better fits. And not only this, but young generations have been creating more universal, more inclusive forms that are now commonly used in languages that historically did not have a neutral. So English has the benefit of having this, this they as a neutral pronoun, which can be used as a singular pronoun, but other languages do not have this. And some languages still need some time to adapt. Romance languages in particular being very heavily gendered. In French, there is actually an example, and I won't subject you to French pronunciation. So please just read that as it is. And but a Romance language I'm more familiar with is Portuguese. And this obviously has a masculine and a feminine, but there is still discussion about what how to include a neutral pronoun. There isn't actually a neutral pronoun in Portuguese. There is however a workaround. And this is just to not use the gender term. This is not perfect, but it works for now. And essentially the example I'm going to show you just quickly is, I'm going for lunch with Sam today. Sam does not have Sam uses non binary pronouns or does not prefer to be referred with male or female pronouns. So the example would be, you know, Sam, which I'm going for lunch with Sam today, you're removing the O and the a to make the sentence genderless from a grammatic point of view, this is incorrect. But as we've seen with language evolution, potentially this could be accepted as correct Portuguese at some point in the future. So, the key takeaways of raised part, which hopefully are given effectively, and Ben and Ellie's part is respect each person's pronouns. If the person tells you the pronouns, respect them, and also respect when and where to use them, as this may change as Ellie's mentioned, always try to be more inclusive. Inclusivity is a matter of respect and making sure that you have a workplace environment that is good for everybody. And so please be respective of your colleagues and inclusive towards all your colleagues. Be aware of the singular they as a short and practical pronoun to use that is grammatically correct. So try to include this in your grammar moving forward and mistakes do happen. So, if you do make a mistake, make a mistake. Ellie has helped you with this, be accepting of yourself and of others and always keep trying to improve yourself and the people around you and the environment around you. So, I'm going to paste a link to a glossary of terms in the description, and I will remain as the speaker to distribute and answer questions and also begin discussion. Thank you very much. And I hope you enjoyed anonymous attendee has said hi thanks for the webinar. Do you recommend that everyone in an organization start using pronouns in that email signature at the same time. If so, how would you encourage this change. I think Ellie would you like to take over this one because this was part of your presentation. And so we can we can answer this live and go ahead please. Sure, I can give it my best shot. I think the key take key point the key take home message hopefully is that if you as an individual can promote that kind of atmosphere of change promote that inclusive environment. And maybe that is by just changing your email signature so that your pronouns are in it maybe that is by talking to your colleagues supervisor. Boss about how we could maybe include that in your culture. That that could be helpful. I think change does start with one person but it will kind of depend a little bit on on your particular situation and how comfortable you feel bringing that up. I think it's important to show support and a big organization gathering nine more than 19,000 scientists. It's actually also a good opportunity to get the conversation about pronouns and not only about so also. I think it's a great opportunity into maybe institutions and countries where maybe the, the rules are different or the, the use is different so it's kind of a way to also show support in places where people are still maybe less supported than others so the general assembly I think is a great way to start to like an example, if you want, but not do you want to say something else. Yes, I think it's actually a nice idea to bring this on an organizational level. Like an organization encourages the employees to to get used to using pronouns, but I think it's it's very hard to to actually implement this. I mean, organizations could start maybe using like encourage to use pronouns for example in zoom meetings, or in other like chat chat groups like in my organization we're using teams. So you could also like out the pronouns at the end of the name but that would lead to a lot of discussions with like HR people. So I think the easiest way is still for individuals to just live the way they, they, they want to live and encourage others by this way of living to do to do the same. We have some other questions. The next one is from Joanna Bezier, and I would actually like to answer this one I think it's addressed towards me more than anything. Yeah, I'm Portuguese and I've seen some information on genderless pronouns that we could adopt in our language. I'm not sure if you've heard of them. I found a website which provides a summary, but I don't think it's been officially implemented. This is really cool. I didn't actually know about this. So I'm very much still learning Portuguese I did my PhD in Portugal so I'm, you know, by no means fluent. And, you know, I would still say I'm kind of in a levels, but I don't really know the levels particularly well because I never formally learned Portuguese. I've just kind of immersed myself. And, but that's really cool. I'm really, I'm really glad to see that there's movements in Portuguese to produce a gender neutral pronoun. And I'll read about that more and I suppose it would be okay to paste that in the chat so that everybody else can see it if that's okay. Is that okay. Oh, there we go Simon has now pasted it. Thank you Simon. Thank you. I guess I should have done more research. But thank you very much for bringing that everyone's attention. The next question is from Tom Boogert. I hope I pronounced that right. When making pronouns a standard part of an introduction round. Isn't there a chance of putting your non binary colleague on the spot to out themselves. This is a very good question. And I think that that Ben a looks like that they've jumped in. And then do you want to answer this one. Okay, well now you know you're going to get punished. I actually wanted to ask this question but I think that's a very good point. But you have to say when you're introducing yourself with your name. In a way, like when you're when you're introducing yourself with your name and your pronouns. If you're still not out and you're using your dad name and also the pronouns that belong to your dad name. Yeah, it's it's both hurtful. But yes when you're not out like not being out is either it's a hurtful thing to be. But at least it would encourage to use people to use pronouns and also like it sounds the message, whatever pronouns you got you want to use me, I'm going to use it for you. I think introducing oneself with pronouns sounds the message I'm going to respect your pronouns. But yes, it's a difficult topic I agree that it might be it might cause people to get hurt, but you get hurt all the time and they deny from people talk about you. So, I think it would still be a step forward. Other other opinions. Yeah, I just, I would like to maybe add some more to that. So I think that this question also comes to the discussion of if you have a person at work who's closeted who they they know that they themselves are trans, but they don't feel comfortable and socially transitioning or physically transitioning at that point for various reasons I won't go into, but essentially that then you're forcing them to use a pronoun that they themselves don't identify with personally. But I think from a point of view of no pronouns being included in discussion to pronouns being included would make them feel more open to would make them feel more comfortable with the social transition when they were ready to do it. So, yes, of course they would then be forced to use the pronouns that they don't identify with personally, and that they use outwardly whilst closeted, but then they are aware that the discussion around pronouns is that in their office in their workplace. I would probably feel less awkward about going around saying, Oh, by the way, I'm changing my pronouns now, because that's obviously a huge component of social transition for for trans people and non binary people is actually making this discussion. So it's bringing it up first, and then saying it. So by bringing it up before anything in a, you know, an office based environment, you don't then have to put the onus on the trans person or the non binary person to bring up the discussion and then socially transition as well. I think that that's something else to consider. Does anyone else have any comments. Maybe I do. I think it's something that was mentioned earlier. A good way. It's probably just to ask in advance, if you know, if the person feels comfortable or not at some point or like just just showing your support. I think it will maybe make people more comfortable, but it's their place, their time, not yours. So, just try to be respectful. This is from Angel Moonee's Piniella. I hopefully I pronounced that correctly. Hello, is there a disrespectful way to ask pronouns of our participants at the registration form for an event, or just asking directly is fine. Name, surname, pronouns, email, etc. And so this is, yeah, this is a discussion that we've been having in the EGU pride group of how to deal with how to discuss this with EGU potentially in the future. Obviously that addition of pronouns in the registration was a big step. And whether or not that needs to be edited or changed is something that we're on with discussing. Anita, would you like to comment on this. So, it's like the formal recognition when you see the registration form that you're asked. It's a sign that somebody has worked to work in trying to include the pronouns, if you obviously see more option than he or she obviously. And the formal part takes work, takes conscience and in several formal forms of registration for an event or even at your office or it's a sign that something is not happening when you only have the binary option. So, I think to answer it in a short way, I think it's not disrespectful to put in a form and ask formally to a person. One thing perhaps to consider is also to leave the option to not disclose. You know, you ask prefer not to say I think the formula is, and it's important to leave that formula open, although in the recent times, for instance, when it was with the General Assembly went from being live like in person only and then he moved to virtual. When it was just virtual in 2020, sorry, several people actually then identified so the percentage of people prefer not to say was much higher in person conferences, whereas in the hybrid format or in the online format people would feel more free to disclose their pronouns and so I think there are ways to make it to inclusive and a ways to include the choice, make the people choose what they want to identify, and if they want to. Thank you. So we have another question from an anonymous attendee. Yeah, many of us work in environments where English is not the person's first language. So the more binary he she is more often used when talking about someone of an unknown gender. How would you facilitate the switch from that to the more inclusive they and so I'm not sure who to ask for this one actually who would like to answer this one. So I would suggest to just use it as much as you can, and hope that people will pick up on it, because everything else like, like, again, going on an organizational level and saying, please instead of using he she not only use day. I would suggest for some people to be to get a language forced upon them. So that can lead to discussions. I would suggest to just use it all the time. Yeah, the using days is generally, I mean, I, again, I sound like I'm preaching a little bit, but it's a much shorter and less clunky way to use this kind of term if you are known, if the person is an unknown gender, or particularly one example was was somebody doing instructions for a lab when I was in my master's, and they were saying he or she then needs to do this, he or she then needs to prepare the sample in this way he or she then should do this. And the amount of he or she is that was said, extended the tutorial by maybe five minutes. So just for the person say they, or then the, you know, researcher, the scientist, the lab attendant, the student. So you can also replace these with nouns like Ben I said, if you're unsure of the gender, and you're even unsure of using they you can you can also replace them with nouns. But but from a grammatical point of view, they is not only the more inclusive form but it's also the more grammatically correct form in those kind of usages at least. It's not something because in the question there was another I think important discussion point, which was about different languages and obviously in race, and as part of the webinar, it was kind of touched upon but I think it's it's some in some it's really, really difficult to move away from the binary pronouns and it's because it's not embedded in the language as it is in English, in English it's really easy, and yet people struggle. And so imagining Italian French, as we said, but it's really, really hard but there are resources. Now we found out one from Portugal from Portuguese language I'm sure there are resources people are thinking about it and probably there are resources out there that I recommend we all search and learn. And also said, it's, it's kind of in good languages in continuation and the way we want to kind of make the effort to get our self informed and our workplace informed. Maybe in a way to inform your own workplace is organizing a webinar similar to this one, but maybe focused on something that maybe it's more your own language. It's not that you can force upon, but I think it's really important to talk about it and make it a habit. If there wasn't any more questions, there was a discussion that would like to raise, because I think this might be another useful thing to mention. Actually, we do have one other quick question from a German use again opinion. How are the pronouns used at the panel's debates presentations during the EU event or other events where the moderators aware of this additional information to introduce address panelists who communicated communicated this to the moderator. Anita. I feel like I could try and answer this question, which is very, very important. So it's not the rule. It's more of a best practices that we're also working on and perhaps is already active in other conferences. So, one way is to before the debate or the panel or this specific session starts is a very good habit to go to each speaker and ask for pronouns and especially also pronunciation as I'm from Italy I will just struggle pronouncing some name that is difficult and I also received many times audio pronounce your surname and your name so is not only beneficial to treat the person with the right and address the person with the right pronounce. It's also the right way to recognize and try and pronounce their names, their names in the best way you can. We all understand that that our pronunciation is is difficult or different for sure, but the effort of going first before the session starts is better than just assuming a program assuming out that name is pronounced. Then you do your best you can get it wrong and as we said in the in the in this webinar it's okay. It's a good effort and best practices that the tweet we all try and implement while combining a session for instance. Thank you. We have another anonymous question. Thank you everybody for for all the questions these have all been really great. So if I don't know the pronouns of the person I'm talking about, I often use they then and this is also partly due to being a native speaker of a gender neutral language. I often wonder if this is disrespectful to some and would like to hear your input on this. And so I kind of I'm kind of curious. Yeah, would you like to pitch it like super quickly. I think others will have more interesting viewpoints, especially talking about other languages. But just as a native English speaker like Hannah slash Ray told us that using them for someone you don't know the pronouns for is fine. But obviously the key thing is, I don't think that's disrespectful. I think it's disrespectful if you continue to use they them if they tell you they prefer something else. That's it. You just have to make sure that once you know the correct ones you're using those, but obviously, if someone is a native speaker of another language where they them isn't isn't an option they might find that disrespectful. I don't know. And I would you like to comment. Imagine that anyone thing sets this respectful. It would be more disrespectful if you would assume a gender pronoun. I say, so using an unknown pronoun is in an unknown situation is the most respectful thing you can do. But yeah, as I said, like if someone asked you to use another set of current of course use this set of pronouns. I somehow understand this question because I identify more but I still prefer they pronouns because I would like to encourage the use of they pronouns for more people. I'm also sometimes wondering if, if someone identified female and accidentally called him a day person, could it be angry at me. So I sort of understand this question but I still think using they is much better than assuming he or she just on the appearance. If there's a general rule of thumb, don't assume pronouns from outward appearance. You say them as a default, if you're unsure and then clarify with the person at a later point, and in a kind of private environment. As Ali said, best and not kind of, you know, you that what's your pronouns in a kind of public area. So, thank you very much for the question. So, so another comment, another discussion I would like to raise because I think this is also relevant to the discussion and is a question that we've come up with ourselves to discuss with everybody so a colleague or a student or a member of the lab at my workplace has changed her name and pronouns. And I'm really curious about the whole thing, but also scared to say something wrong. What questions are appropriate and what questions are inappropriate to ask that person. So, it's so hard to answer. There's no short answer. Well, okay, there's a short answer but not an easy answer. The short answer is, you can ask the same questions that you would ask a cis person in the same situation. So, do you want inappropriate question or do you want appropriate question every question can be appropriate or inappropriate. Like this is very infamous question about what do you have from your parents is super inappropriate and in a workplace work situation, but might maybe even be appropriate in a sort of dating situation like who knows. In a workplace situation. Yeah, usually if you if you don't have like a friend like a relationship to someone. You should not discuss the gender in more detail. I would not suggest so. This person just wants you to inform about the pronouns. I do not want to discuss all the details related to gender identity with you. This person has no, no, I would say it's not obliged to answer all your questions. If you're really super curious, please go to the internet. Everything is out there that you want to know that people who talk about it who write about it. I like, yeah, I'd say there's no answer that you kind of find out there. Please don't force your colleague to give you this information. The onus is not on your colleague to educate you about issues that you're unsure of. And yeah, it's I think general best practices, don't ask personal questions and further related to this. I think it's can be sometimes unsure of how to deal with somebody if they're socially transitioning at work if they present in one gender and then start to slowly look physically different or dress physically dress differently to what their assigned gender is and do not don't try not to bring attention to it and let the person, you know, get to these checkpoints as they feel fit and tell you as they feel fit. So, so that's the kind of best practice. If you're unsure, as Ben I said, there is a lot of resources online of how to deal with this how to support your non binary and trans colleagues in every way, and to make your workplace more accepting and supportive for these people and for everyone in general, just to make a less hostile work environment and more accepting work environment more inclusive work environment. So, with that, we will probably start wrapping up. And, and you said you have any final comments. Yes, yes, thank you, Hannah, Ben and Ellie. Thank you very much for the webinar. We hope it's a resource that people can go back to. We, when we implemented the pronouns on the general assembly badges, we had several questions about it and several comments that of people curious of people not understanding why it's important. I hope that by attending these webinar or view the recording with people can can get some clarification otherwise everybody's welcome to join our events during the general assembly or you can find us at the EDI booth. And with that, I will thank you everybody and see you soon. Thank you very much.