 With John Wahey, you know there is so much happening in the world, in America, in Hawaii that I just thought it would be nice to just chat with a fellow host and actually the head of Think Tech Hawaii, J. Fidel, just to sort of debrief all the multitude of events that are happening. And, you know, Jay is one of the most knowledgeable persons I know because he gets to interact with all the hosts and their guests and he gets to talk to a lot of people. So, Jay, thank you for making time for us this afternoon. Oh, so nice to join you, John. You know, I enjoy doing this with you. You know, from time to time, it's like a little refresher course. And so, here we are again, and I guess, what do we do? I guess we, you know, the title of our show is Where Goeth America, you know. I mean, I think there are people, you know, one of the things that's happening right now is a lot of us are at home because of the COVID threat. And we're sitting there and we're watching the news and we're watching all the cable and regular news stations and all. And we'll be catching up with current events in this country. And all over the country there's these riots going on and people are legitimately concerned. The whole ugly scepter of, I guess it would be the racist undercurrent of America, just surfacing, you know. Have you been talking about any of this in your programming? Oh, yeah, we just, just last hour we talked to Kenneth Lawson. He's a faculty member at the Law School in New Age. Right, right. And he was talking about, he's black, he was talking about the Floyd murder and the riots and protests that follow. It's very interesting to hear it from him. He's got a good lawyer and he will know the implications of it. I listened to Trevor Howard today and he did an excellent essay. And he sort of tied the current situation because of the Floyd protests back to, I guess her name was Amy Cooper in New York. That was the video that we all saw about a week ago, I guess, where this woman who's walking her dog through New York, just a little innocuous kind of activity, walking through taking her dog and there's a sign there saying, like, leash your dog and the rest of it. And instead of doing that, she unleashes the dog and this gentleman who is a bird watcher videotapes her and asks her, politely actually, to please leash your dog up because that's what the rules are. And instead of doing that, she threatens him by calling the police and specifically saying, and specifically saying that I'm going to tell them that you're attacking me. So what we have here is a white woman with calling the policeman to come there and deal with this black gentleman who is telling her not to leash her dog. And the point of all, and knowing that or believing that when she makes the call, that there's this automatic presumption that he must be guilty. He must be guilty of doing something. And the point of all of that was that is a fact of life for many that institutional racism, in other words, to know ahead of time as a deliberate act that by calling the police more likely than not, this person would get arrested and maybe even treated badly. Where's this country going? I mean, how do we do that? I mean, that's, you know, to me, when you put that incident and then you see this gentleman who a human being is begging for some relief, not giving it. I mean, what's happening to our country, Jay? I mean, I don't, you know, incredible amount of racial bias, racial racism. And it seems to be pervasive. And I, you know, some say that it's more now than it was before even through our lifetime. So it seems, and I don't think that black community is willing to accept a continuation of it. There must be some, you know, rational, sympathetic solution, but it hasn't, it hasn't emerged yet. Maybe these protests will cause people in general and the justice system and specifically to be more careful about the way they treat the disparity in races. What's interesting, though, is the juxtaposition, apparently, of racism and law enforcement. You know, I mean, she didn't like scream out for the gentleman walking neck, you know, somewhere around her. She didn't call for, you know, what she did was call the cop. And, you know, and it's sad because over the years, so much has been done to make police departments more aware and, you know, more sensitive. It's happening too often to say that they are. And so the question is, why is this the answer is, I think it's a natural human condition that people, you know, harbor a certain amount of racism, especially perhaps in a police situation where they live in the suburbs, they go into the inner city, which is like a war zone for them. Okay, and they get into this kind of paranoid mode and they do things like that. Well, and that's murderous. It's against the rules. It's against the law. It's, it's going to be punishable in this case by very severe punishment. Which I think is the problem is you need to have a leader. You know, you need to have a leader. It's the bully pulpit. It's the bully pulpit of the president mostly, because this is a national issue. So instead of, instead of trying to resolve things, the man, the man repeatedly throws kerosene on the fire. And that happened again today. And certainly it happened last week. And it's going to happen all the time. He is not competent to make things right. He is not competent to soften, you know, the racism in the country. I want to come back to Trump. But before we go there, you know, it seems like it's not necessarily just about white policemen and the black population. I mean, one of the interesting things about the, the Floyd situation was that one of the cops was actually Asian. He was standing by, but he was actually Asian. So it seems like, and in other instances, there were even black policemen involved in that. So it seems like this thing is more than just two races not getting along. It's more institutional. It's part of our everyday psyche and it's unfortunate. In fact, the gentleman that got charged for murder apparently has an Asian wife. She has since filed for divorce and what, you know, some of this stuff is just, it's just incredible. And now we have a president who is instead of doing something about the ugliness seems to be stirring it up. I mean, he has he said anything at all. I mean, that was understanding of how the people might feel about, you know, the Floyd situation or even the Cooper situation. I don't know. I haven't heard him. Have you? I think he may, he may have made some brief, but in, you know, brief but ineffective remarks. You know, it's interesting, anything of something, but interestingly enough, a lot of the very conservative commentators are coming out and said there's no justification for what happened to Floyd. I mean, they may not agree with the protest, but they certainly seem like they're understand the people's anger a lot more than they are, I would say. Maybe I shouldn't say. You know, this is the technology is it's as a camera and the camera has sound and the whole thing is recorded. And that and that video is exhibit a of exactly what happened and it demonstrates conduct that is unforgivable. You know, there was I can see where people it might have been a presumption that hey, you know, because the first news out when that kind of situation. Oh, he's resisting arrest. He's a by the way, I know, and I don't want to make light of this, but it's often times that kind of instant reaction is not only directed to people. Well, they directed to people of color in general, and I'm not trying to make blacks in particular, but also poor people homeless people, homeless people in, you know, and I think for those of us in Hawaii, maybe we are not to be so smug. It might be instances in Hawaii when we're dealing with those individuals that are not part of the mainstream of our society when that might be happening, maybe this might be a good opportunity for us to take a look inside. I know I think that's I think that's a good suggestion. With you, I remember a time when the police here in Hawaii were really friendly. In fact, they could talk to them and they could talk to you but not anymore. You know, and, and, and at the same time, you know, we've got to appreciate the fact that they are protecting us and our lives and so forth. But it seems like our civilization has gotten kind of skewed up, you know, and which brings us back to your favorite personality in the entire on the entire planet, which is our. I hate to use the word hour, which is the president. And you're right. This morning, he was on a telephone call with the governor's of the states in not talking about improving race relations, but talking about using force in a stronger way, you know, send the National Guard in. I remember back in the 60s when doing that ended up with the Kent State Massacre, you know, people were killed. At the same time going to. You know, I mean, it's this country. He's going to he's going to have the armed troops quell any disturbance he's already said that when the looting begins the shooting begins remember that comment last week. I didn't think he'd hesitate to to order the army to shoot people just like Kent State. You know, this is when that happened in Kent State, it was a shock to the entire nation. And to have it happen again you think we had moved on past that you know what happens when you order and the thing about the National Guard is that the National Guard are not professional soldiers. These are not people who are now they're professionals and their soldiers, but they're not people who every day spend their time in the military. They're your fellow, the person sitting next door next in the next desk to you in the office buildings, the person building your house. You know, there's come there's civilians called in for emergencies and and they're fantastic people. I remember when we had a hurricane in Hawaii, if it weren't for the National Guard, we wouldn't been able to recover as well as we could. And now all of a sudden we're asking people's neighbors to shoot him. What kind I don't I don't I tell you, Jay, I don't want to sound like I'm pontificating, but I don't understand this president at all. Well, if you know it's not that he has direct control over them, because they theoretically work for the governor. Yeah, but he can militarize like he like they did with when Eisenhower did did it to integrate the schools. And I think that's what he's threatening that he may do. He may call them into service. And he does have the power now normally they're under the you're right they're under the authority of a governor. But the president of the United States can override everybody and call the as they cause the National Militia into service. Bam, or send the or send the army and make the army available and send them in. But you know all of this all of this is ultimately a political question because when you shake it and make it what Trump wants to do is win the election by whatever means. And if he divides the country, I'm really asking a question. If he divides the country and as everybody fighting with each other, if he has an emergency on his hands on our hands, doesn't that help him politically to derail the election in his favor. Well, it doesn't seem to be helping him right now but what it does do because his numbers are falling and people are getting discussed. You know all of this is also happening in an era of isolation. And because of the covert 19 crisis that you know people have gotten how do I say this on Americans have gotten used to the executive branch both on the state level and the national level. Using extraordinary powers using extraordinary powers and I and it's so you know you can do now the way he's handled this crisis hasn't worked very well for him. And and some of this stuff may even get worse. But the first thing in my mind is that he's a president who is talking about sending troops in and doing all of this in a sense in flaming what's going on. And not at the least bit concerned about the fact that his actions may have contributed to the over 100,000 people who died in America. And he's trying to distract us from that. Well, you know, some people are saying and I'm I don't buy this theory so before I say it I want to make it real clear. Yeah, I'm with you I think he's distracting but there are other there are people who think that since the majority of those that people that die and that are affected by the covert virus apparently are the lowest rank rungs of our society minority groups poor people homeless people people like this that this president doesn't mind them dying. You know he's made a count this is a calculating guy he doesn't mind them dying. And then instead of doing something that might you know bring people together he inflames them instead. And so it's I don't know if he's hardening his base one of them. Yeah, one of the more interesting things for me is the other ultra conservatives in this country, who were his total apologist, who are now criticizing it for both things for the way he handled the virus crisis. And for the way he's handling this particular this racial flare up. I don't know. I think that the common point is to disrupt create more divisiveness. So many reports credible reports of skinheads who have joined the protest to have distributed weapons bricks for example, in the protests who have tried to make the protest more violent. Who are the violent leaders of the protest. And, you know, I don't know what it is but there's a certain element in the country, including Trump that wants to see divisiveness that wants to see tumult and chaos. And how exactly he thinks it's going to help him but surely that's what he's doing. In terms of people, one of the more irritating commentaries this morning was the fact that some of those, you know, anti actually anti police. A lot of those groups are anti law enforcement. I mean, in their China provoke instances with the police. One of the groups I think it was in Minneapolis or someplace in order to identify themselves were wearing what they called Hawaiian shirts. And that was, I gotta tell you, that's an insult to all of us. It's an insult to everybody in Hawaii and they were probably the shirts were probably from California but it would be an insult to California and it was an insult to everybody in this country and you know, but the silver lining in that cloud. Before I ask you the question of the day the silver lining in that cloud was the fact that at a lot of these protests. They actually have developed people now who are watching for things like that to happen. I just saw I guess it was on NSSBC or I'm not sure which channel and they were there was a guy that was pulling bricks up getting ready to throw it at the police. And this group of individuals just grabbed him, stood him up, made him drafted and hauled him over to the cops and told them and told the policemen this guy's not part of the protest. He's provoking something here. You know, so maybe in this era of electronics people, you know, can adjust fast enough to some of these things. So hopefully we'll see more. That's encouraging. But I think I think we're going to have to see this tilt one way or the other in the next few days to see whether it takes on a more threatening tone or less threatening tone. Well, let me ask you now it's not good for the country. Absolutely not good for the country. In fact, to be really clear, Frank, my personal view is that America has never been as weak as it is right now. Both internally, economically, and maybe even militarily in the sense that when I divide, I mean, most people that I know that are former, you know, commanders of the armed forces will have told me over the years, more times than not that the weak, the worst thing for the military, for military strength is a divided country. And you can't have that. But let me ask you the question that I've been saving up for this moment, which is, okay, Jay, do you think that we are actually going to have an election in America, a presidential election? I mean, I, you know, given all that you see, do you think and this might be speculative? And I mean, an actual fair election, you know, something that happens that's not sort of rigged by this by this great by this president. You think so or not? Are you still hopeful? Well, actually, I'm more hopeful now than I was a few days ago. I'll tell you why. Yeah, I mean, he's been suppressing votes. He's he and the Republicans have been Germany, Germany, you know, jurisdictions all over the country. He's been working very hard to destroy the post office. And the post office is the key to mail in balance. He's working hard to destroy mail in balance. Yes. And he's supporting all these things all around the country that are intended to deprive minorities and many others to Democrats of votes. You know, his stated purpose for that is, I want to stop the Democrats from voting because if they vote, I'll lose. He said that. Yeah, he's said that. Well, that's the essence of the question. I, you know, I would have thought going in that the guy had, oh, and there's scenarios, both the Washington Post and the New York Times have written up these groups that are. And I think there are groups within the paper or the groups of people who consult with the paper, who, who have, you know, identified scenarios that Trump might follow in destroying the election and not having an election deferring an election, calling an emergency, somehow screwing it up so that he can stay in office. Aside from the possibility he might win, but since base is there and maybe, you know, he'll get the electoral votes like he did with Hillary Clinton. Until a few days ago, I was operating in the assumption that the guy has so many irons and a fire screw up the election that there's a fair chance he'll be able to do that and somehow remain in office. I mean, remember, if he stayed in office, if he physically stayed in the White House, then refused to leave. Who would force him to go. Congress, Congress is neutralized, would it be the Supreme Court. He'd make some kind of argument Supreme Court to be neutralized. I mean, after all, a lot of them are his people, especially, you know, when Ruth Bader Ginsburg isn't there and she might not be there. And so, you know, I would have said that, I would have said that he's got a pretty good chance at screwing it up. What these events and what he has done to obviously pour fuel on the fire of these protests to obviously do his thing about being a jerk. And distracting us from the reality of over 100,000 lives. I think people are probably going to get the idea, just how bad a president he is. And if he was claiming that he helped the economy, I'm not sure that he can revive the economy. I don't think he can. What people are going to have is an awful slide between now and November. And he won't have any, he won't have any real arguments to make that he is a great president and should be reelected. And even people who are not fully informed will see that they are, I believe they are beginning to see that. So assuming that he doesn't find a way to avoid the election altogether by some emergency declaration by some, you know, remarkable by closing the post office. Or by closing the post office, you know, and getting away with it. If we rely on any kind of vote, even a vote where a lot of people have been suppressed and all that. I think the landslide will be against him. That's what I think. Well, so I'm not nearly as sure I'm not nearly as worried about him winning somehow coming out as president after this election. And Uncle, it always says, you tell me that you can fool some of the people all the time. You can fool, you know, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool everybody all of the time. So we'll see. We'll see whether, you know, your faith in humanity saves our country. Thanks, Jay. Thanks for doing this with me this afternoon. And everybody will see you again in two weeks. Aloha. Thank you, John.