 It's time for the Laun Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Laun Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Laun Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Laun Jean. Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope? Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Henry Haslitz, contributing editor of Newsweek Magazine. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Joseph R. McCarthy, United States Senator from Wisconsin. The opinions expressed are necessarily those of the speakers. Senator McCarthy, our viewers, of course, know that you are one of the most controversial political figures of our time. And this is your first appearance since your rather overwhelming victory in the Wisconsin primaries. Now, sir, what brings you east at this time? Your program largely, Mr. Huey. And I believe that also this week you expect to make an address in Connecticut. Is that correct, sir? I'm speaking tomorrow night at the Klein Memorial Hall at Bridgeport, Connecticut. And, of course, our viewers know that in Connecticut, that's the home state of a man that you've had a few words with, Senator Bill Benton. Now, sir, what's the purpose of your going into Connecticut? Is it to defeat Senator Benton or to try to help defeat Senator Benton? My purpose, Mr. Huey, will be about the same as the purpose in some 12, 13 states now visit, and that is to bring important facts to the American people. You see, I've got a very strong feeling that most of our people in public life underestimate the intelligence of the American people. They try to argue and tell people how to vote. I think you need merely give the people the facts, and then you can go home and don't worry they'll vote right. Well, now at Bridgeport, Connecticut, I understand you're correct when you say that you are opening a 12 or 13 state drive now in support of the national ticket. I think I'll be in, I may be wrong on the number, Mr. Huey. I think that I am now scheduled to speak in some 13 or 14 states where they have close senatorial contests. Well, Senator, a lot of people came into your state, into Wisconsin, to try to defeat you in the primaries, and it seemed to have worked the other way. Now, don't you think that perhaps when you go into these states it may have that sort of effect? Mr. Hazlott, I do not intend to go into those states and tell the people how to vote. I don't intend to go in and discuss the local men running for Congress or for Senator. I intend to go into those states and give the American people the cold documented picture of the sellout in Korea, the extent to which communism has been directing our foreign policy, our suicidal foreign policy, if you please. And if the American people want more of that, then they can vote for the president administration. I may say this, that my appeal is largely made to Democrats. I feel that the millions of Americans who have long voted for the Democrat ticket are just as loyal, they love America just as much, they hate communism just as much as the average Republican. And I think it is up to those loyal Democrats to realize that as of today they don't have a party in Washington. The only way they can have a change is by voting Republican. Well, do you think a lot of Democrats came in and voted for you in the Wisconsin election? I don't think it, I know it. Our normal, let's put it this way, two years ago the Democratic vote was about 47% of the total. The Republican vote was 53%. This year we had a, let's see, I think these figures are at 83% Republican vote, 17% Democrat vote, and most of the Democrats apparently voted for McCarthy because I carried the Democrat wards normally better than I carried the Republican wards, which proves my contention, and that is that in this fight against communism it isn't a Democrat fight, it isn't a Republican fight. And for that reason I don't go to any state and tell the people how to vote. What is the broader interpretation of your own victory in Wisconsin as you see it? Well, I would say Mr. Haslund number one, it was not a vote for McCarthy. It was a vote on an issue, an all-important issue. The American people recognized that the one real issue, not the phony issue, was the issue of communism, corruption, all tied up with the Korean War. And World War, call it two and a half, call it a police action, call it what you might. It means that the American people are sick way down deep inside at what's been going on. And that, it was, I'd like to consider it a tribute to McCarthy, but it was not, it was a vote upon an all-important issue. And I just hope that many of our good friends realize that that is the issue this year. Well, you imply, Senator, by saying that they didn't vote for McCarthy, you imply that you've become something of a symbol now to a large group of Americans. Now, just what do you believe you symbolize in the American political scene now? I don't quite like though you put that question, Mr. Huey. Let's put it this way, many people have been waiting for someone to expose the extent to which our suicidal foreign policy has been dictated from the Kremlin. They've been waiting for someone to really get up and fight corruption the way men like Senator Williams have fought it. And I think my people in Wisconsin were voting an approval of a fight against communism, corruption, the sellout of American interests. And they weren't voting, they weren't voting for Joe McCarthy. I happen to be the recipient of the vote and I certainly appreciate it a great deal. Well, would you say the other side of that coin is that you were the recipient of all the protest vote in Wisconsin? I mean that they were voting for you in order to protest against what you outlined have been the failures of the administration. That might well be, Mr. Huey. Senator, I wanted to ask you about this word McCarthyism. Am I right supposing that the first one who used that word was Owen Lattimore in testimony before the tidings committee? Owen Lattimore first used it. Let me correct myself. I think it was first used by Lattimore or by the daily worker, but the testimony now is that 40 top communists met in New York and decided how they would fight McCarthy and that they then coin the phrase McCarthyism. Now as to the date of that, well that was the day before Lattimore testified to the day after, I frankly don't know. But that's the origin, as you see it, either the daily worker's publication of it or the Owen Lattimore testimony was the first time it was used. Or that the testimony by Howard Rushmore, the 40 communists met and said we'll coin the phrase McCarthyism and use that. I wanted to ask you here something about a point that came up in the testimony, the congressional testimony about the Institute of Pacific Relations. This was about a year ago and it was a letter written by the secretary of the IPR to a Mr. Barnett asking about a meeting they were going to have at Mount Tremblant and the people that they ought to invite to that meeting. And William Lockwood says here in writing as secretary of the IPR, another possibility we might consider is someone from Knox's office or Stimson's. Cohen Hiss, meaning Alger Hiss, mentioned Adlai Stevens, one of Knox's special assistants. Well that must mean Adlai Stevenson because he was one of Knox's special assistants then and there was no Stevens. Now why, in your opinion, would Hiss back in 1942 have recommended Adlai Stevenson as a participant in that meeting? What qualifications did Adlai Stevenson have as, let's say, a far Eastern expert at that time? All the qualifications that Alger Hiss wanted in a man, I would say. And keep in mind that Cole, the other man recommended by Alger Hiss, has been named under oath seven times as either a communist or an espionage agent. Let me say this, I'd rather not go to Stevenson's record in too great detail this time because we have just completed a complete and thorough research on Adlai Stevenson. Who is he? Well, and I intend to give that picture on a nationwide network and television I hope also. And after I give that picture of Stevenson, it isn't a picture that I've created, it's his own history, it's Adlai Stevenson's history of Adlai Stevenson. Since the time he entered the Agricultural Department in 1933 when Alger Hiss and Perlman the rest entered. And after I give that history of Stevenson, if the American people want him they can have him. I don't think they'll want him. Well, Senator, I gather from what you say that it's fair to infer that you will not avoid personalities in your 13 states that you expect to speak in. I will never avoid giving the facts to the American people, Mr. Huey, it's so easy to talk about communism generally, to talk about the sellout in China and Korea generally. But unless you call the role of the traitors, unless you call the role of those who have been responsible for the suicidal foreign policy, it's a waste of the speaker's time and the audience's time. And I don't intend to ever get up and, in general terms, talk about treason, talk about sellouts. You see, foreign policy isn't like little topsy, it doesn't just grow. Treason isn't like little topsy, it doesn't just grow. It's created by men with faces and men with names. I think those of us who have been elected by the American people demand the watchtowers, unless we have the intelligence to recognize the traitors. And then, if I may use a word which we use in Wisconsin, unless we have the guts to name them, we should be taken down from those watchtowers and should not be representing the American people. And I don't intend to ever avoid giving the names of traitors, giving the names of communists, when I discover them in an important position. Well, Senator, we appreciate it very much for your being with us tonight. Well, thank you, Mr. Hazlett. The editorial board for this edition of the Launcene Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Henry Hazlett. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Joseph R. McCarthy, United States Senator from Wisconsin. It's World Series time again, the best days of the year for baseball fans. And this year again, the World Series is Launcene time. Yes, all umpires of both American and national baseball leagues use Launcene watches exclusively for timing all the games, including the World Series. Truly, the most honored watch in the world of sports is Launcene, the world's most honored watch. The only watch in history to win 10 World Fair Grand Prizes, 28 gold medals, and so many honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing. Now, that's why throughout the world, no other name on a watch carries the prestige of Launcene, the world's most honored watch in sport. The watch of first choice with discriminating people the world over. And yet you know that you may buy and own or buy and proudly give a Launcene watch for as little as $71.50. Launcene, the world's most honored watch. Premier product of the Launcene Wittner Watch Company since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at this same time for the Launcene Chronoscope. A television journal of the important issues of the hour, broadcast on behalf of Launcene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Launcene. This is Frank Knight reminding you that Launcene and Wittner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Launcene Wittner watches. Starts Friday night, Mr. and Mrs. North on the CBS television network. It's time for the Launcene Chronoscope. A television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Launcene Wittner Watch Company, maker of Launcene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Launcene. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Launcene Chronoscope? Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Hardy Burt, noted correspondent and author. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Dr. Corlys Lamont, American Labor Party representative. Dr. Lamont, our viewers, of course, many of them know that you are somewhat controversial political figure, and I'm sure they welcome you tonight and will extend to you the same degree of tolerance that they extended to the views expressed here on their last program by Senator McCarthy. Now, tonight, sir, I believe you are a candidate for the United States Senate in New York. Is that correct? Yes, it is true. It's my first campaign for political office. And you are the candidate for the American Labor Party in New York? That's true. And is that party affiliated with the Progressive Party nationally? Yes. Our national ticket for President has Vincent Hallanand and for Vice President, Shalala Bass. The American Labor Party is the New York unit of that party. Now, that's the party that our viewers remember was headed by Mr. Wallace in 1948. Correct. Is that correct, sir? Yes. Now, sir, you have been known through most of your active lifetime, I believe, as an American who was generally friendly toward the Soviet Union. Is that correct, sir? Do you so classify yourself? I think you could say that, yes. I want to ask a question here, doctor, about the great issue in the world, of course, today, is whether we can have peace with Russia. We are spending billions of dollars on the premise that we have to stay about Russian attack and so forth. We're sending troops abroad to Europe and all that. Now, do you think it's possible to make peace with Russia without force of arms? I certainly do think it's possible. And of course, if you resort to force of arms, that will result in a terrible third world war, which nobody can win. I believe that in spite of the Soviet Union's mistakes, which I think are many, and in spite of mistakes on the American side, we can get together over the conference table and wake these things out, making a start with relaxing the tensions that are existing in the world today. Just what would be your method in doing that, getting together with Stalin? That's what you would have to do. Well, yes, I would approve of perhaps a five-power conference or a two-power conference on a top level with Churchill, Stalin, Truman, whoever is president of the United States, and carrying out the idea that the anti-communist Nehru suggested recently of talking these things over in a five-power conference around the conference table. Now, there have been many such conferences as these, and we've usually been disillusioned. Why do you think this time that it'll work out? I don't promise it will work out, but of course I believe we should make immediate steps toward relaxing these tensions by getting an immediate ceasefire in Korea and then perhaps letting China into the United Nations and then restoring world trade, which has been disrupted over the past few years. How do we get a ceasefire? Well, I think that the best plan that has been suggested is to let the prisoner of war issue at present go over for settlement between four neutrals, Switzerland, Sweden, Poland, and Czechoslovakia and let that be settled after the ceasefire and truth has been made on the present basis. I think the North Koreans and the Chinese would agree to such a compromise and that it could be worked out and save this endless slaughter which is going on over there in Korea. Well, sir, now in order to catch your views properly, sir, is it true to say, you mentioned that you were one of the Americans who was generally friendly toward Soviet Union. Now, you made several trips to Russia, didn't you, during the 30s? I made two trips, Mr. Huey, in 1932 and 1938. And during that period, you were one of the Americans who thought that there was something enormously hopeful for mankind going on in Russia. That's right, but I was never an apologist for them. I always saw the mistakes and the evils in the Soviet Union. It seems to me that any country has both its good and bad sides and that's certainly true of Russia. Now, for instance, the Purge trials in 1937. You were one of the Americans who thought that those trials were properly and were honorable trials and that the government of the Soviet Union was proper in carrying out that Purge. Well, I think that innocent people suffered in that Purge, Mr. Huey, but so far as the great Moscow trials were concerned, I think that they were genuine and I have a supporter in Winston Churchill who in one of his books said that he believed they were necessary, though regrettable. Now, you have also, is it fair to say that you've been generally critical of organized religion and the Christian religion particularly? Well, I've been critical of theology and political ideas in the churches, Mr. Huey, but naturally I support the New Testament ideals and teachings of Jesus and in my own philosophy bring those in constantly. It's been your belief that the Christian church in Western Europe, for instance, has been a reactionary political instrument. Well, I would always want to be specific on that and say what church and exactly what was their policy because many churchmen, many Catholics too, have taken a liberal policy and social affairs and are fighting for international peace today. I'm unwilling to make any overall condemnation of a church, a religion, or a country. Now, you have also been a member or an officer of a number of organizations that have been labeled subversive by the government of the United States. Now, sir, do you have any regrets as to those memberships? Well, I can't think that I do, Mr. Huey. As a matter of fact, the whole subversive listing, it seems to me, was unconstitutional and illegal and it was carried out, as you know, without giving any of these organizations a chance to testify and answer the charges against them. Well, sir, now with that background, what do you regard as a candidate for the United States Senate? What do you regard as the most important issue before the American people today? Well, I think there are two most important issues, if I may put it that way. The restoration of civil liberties for everybody in this country, Catholics, Wakers, Socialists, Communists, the enemies of Communists, Catholics and atheists, and everything else. And the second big issue is international peace and disarmament. Now those two issues, I am emphasizing in my campaign and of course they are tied up together. So now on the first issue, the restoration of civil liberties, I take it by that you mean that civil liberties are threatened today, that they need restoring. Oh, more than threatened, they have been suppressed right and left here and indeed it has gone over from the field of governmental violation to non-governmental violation in private entertainment fields like radio, even television, movies and publishing. Would you say that Senator McCarthy is a part of that threat? I'm afraid he is because McCarthy has kept the American people stirred up over an alleged threat of communist insurrection here and it seems to me has gone much too far in the direction of suppressing actually the Bill of Rights and making everybody scared to death so that people now adopt what they call self-censorship in order to not go out on a limb and not stick their necks out. They just keep quiet. Millions of Americans. Would you say making everybody scared to death? Do you believe that a very large number of Americans are living in fear today of Senator McCarthy and what he stands for? Well, not so much of McCarthy himself as the fear that he has stirred up, the fear of government people losing their jobs because they are accused of some vague relationship to a communist organization back in 1932. All this I consider going pretty far astray but it's not only McCarthy. The Democrats have a man like that and his name is McCarran and he is just as bad in my opinion and more powerful actually in the Senate of the United States. Well, sir, now on this problem of peace which I believe that both major parties have found to be the issue that more people are interested in. Now, in Western Europe you've expressed in your opinion on Korea. In Western Europe, are you critical of our maintaining troops in Western Europe? Well, I am indeed. I think that it's unnecessary. I don't think that there is really a danger of Soviet military aggression in Western Europe because that isn't the way the Soviets wait. They wait through propaganda and taking advantage of bad economic conditions. Now, as it happens, we are bringing about bad economic conditions in Western Europe. That's one of the great troubles with our policies. Doctor, let me interrupt right here to ask this question because it is pertinent. Suppose we withdrew all financial aid and all of our troops from Europe, do you think that the communists would pretty much leave Europe alone? Do you think the European countries themselves would go communist internally? Not necessarily. I believe myself and hope that the European countries of England, France and Italy might establish reform governments, labour governments such as you have in England today. They would have no allegiance to Russia. Not necessarily. There would still be strong communist movements in those countries. But what America has done, it seems to me, through foisting this armaments program on them and disrupting East-West trade is to depress their living standards and in that way open the gates to the communist parties more than before because communists, as you know, thrive on economic misery and on bad economic conditions. Doctor, as a final question, would you tell our audience what kind of America you would like to see during the next four years? Well, I believe America is a great country with a great tradition, but that tradition has been betrayed since the death of Franklin D. Roosevelt. I believe that with the re-establishment of peace, we can re-establish civil liberties here and then start a march, renew a march in America toward economic security and abundance for everyone in this country. Is it fair to say that you are a socialist and that you want to see peace restored and then you want to see this government proceed further in the direction of socialism? That's right. Toward planned socialism with democratic means putting it into effect and not revolution. You think private property should be owned by the state? Well, not all private property, Mr. Wright, but the main means of production and distribution, yes. Well, sir, I'm certain that our viewers have enjoyed these forthright views from you, sir, and thank you very much for being with us. The opinions expressed this evening are necessarily those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Launcine Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Hardy Burt. Our distinguished guest was Dr. Corlys Lamont, American Labor Party representative. It's World Series time again. The best days of the year for baseball fans. And this year again, the World Series is Launcine time. Yes, all on parts of both American and national baseball leagues use Launcine watches exclusively for timing all the games, including the World Series. Truly, the most honored watch in sports is Launcine, the world's most honored watch. The only watch in history to win 10 World's Fair grand prizes, 28 gold medals, and so many honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing. Now, that's why throughout the world, no other name on a watch carries the prestige of Launcine, the world's most honored watch in sport. The watch of first choice with discriminating people the world over. And yet, do you know that you may buy and own or buy and proudly give a Launcine watch for as little as $71.50. Launcine, the world's most honored watch. Premier product of the Launcine Witner Watch Company since 1866. Maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at this same time for the Launcine Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour. Broadcast on behalf of Launcine, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Launcine. This is Frank Knight reminding you that Launcine and Witner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Launcine Witner Watch. It's timely pick the winner on the CBS television network. It's time for the Launcine Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour. A presentation of the Launcine Witner Watch Company. Maker of Launcine, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Launcine. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Launcine Chronoscope. Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury and Mr. Elliott Haynes, associate editor of United Nations World. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the honorable Fuller Warren, governor of the state of Florida. Governor Warren, our viewers of course, know you as one of the more controversial political figures in the south. They remember a little engagement that you had with Senator Kefauver during his investigation. And tonight I'm sure that our viewers would like some of your expressions as to the political situation in Florida. Now first sir, we've had Governor Talmadge on this program a few days ago and he told us his position. We've had certain other Southern governors. What's your position in the present national campaign, sir? Mr. Huey, I am 100% plus for Stevenson and Sparkman. Well now, are you one of the radical governors in the south, or are you conservative? Where do you fit in this political firmament? Mr. Huey, I think you might appropriately and aptly describe me as a liberal conservative. Governor, does a liberal conservative believe in the FEPC? Not a compulsory FEPC, Mr. Haynes. We believe in the Constitution as I believe all good Americans do. And as we read the Constitution, it doesn't give the federal government the power to pass an FEPC that could be enforced with jail sentences. You're a state's writer then, are you? Well, I don't know so much about that. I'm an American first, but I believe in treating everybody fair and right and giving everybody an equal opportunity to a job. Well now, do Mr. Stevenson's positions on those issues altogether suit you, sir? Well, they come narrower suit me than most positions on that subject do. Including General Eisenhower's? Well, I can't tell just what his position is. He vacillates so and changes from day to day so that I can't keep up with it. You know his latest position, Mr. Haynes? Well, now, General Eisenhower paid a widely publicized visit to your state recently. What was the effect of his trip there? Well, it's hard to say, Mr. Huey, I've been in politics for 25 years and about all that I've learned to do is to make a wild guess. I suppose as an expert or even a semi or quasi, I might be a pseudo expert, but he was well received there. A great many people turned out to see him and he was treated with that famous Florida hospitality and cordiality. The feeling is that he got more hospitality than he'll get votes down there. Do you think that also applies to the effect that Jimmy Burns might have in his switch to Eisenhower? Governor Burns is one of the most beloved and revered figures in the South and we have real affection for him in the South, but I doubt if any political leaders' position in the South will greatly influence the votes of a great number of people in the South. Just about everybody in the South, as I suspect most of them are in the North and West, do their own voting, their independence when it comes to casting a vote. You have a lot of Republicans in Florida, don't you, Governor? Yes, sir, we've had a very large Republican infiltration into Florida in recent years and I may say we welcome them because nearly all of them are solvent and well-heeled and capable of doing a whole lot to develop our state. They make fine citizens but very, you might say, unsatisfactory voters. Well, sir, now about Florida and has the industrialization preceded as fast in Florida as it has in other states. Very, very fast, Mr. Huey, for many years we were long on tourism and agriculture but short on industrialization but under the beneficent policies of Roosevelt we have proceeded rapidly in the industrialization of Florida. The industry is fast moving up alongside our agriculture and our tourism. Well, now about tourism, how important is tourism to the economy of Florida? Mr. Huey, it is almost all important. The people of Florida have a total annual income of about three and a half billion dollars. About one billion of those three and a half billion dollars is derived from tourism. You can see that about one out of every three and a half dollars we take in comes from these splendid, fine, affluent people from other states who come to Florida for rest, relaxation, and reinvigoration. They also come for divorces, don't they, Governor? Well, a few of them come down for marital liberation but, of course, how do you, one of the many, you might say, facets of Florida's charm? Well, as Florida are able to compete with such states as Arkansas and Nevada and divorces. Mr. Huey, we are a little bit handicapped. They have, I believe, a six-weeks residence requirement in those two states and you have to live in Florida for the full period of 90 days before you can file a divorce suit. That means you make more money from each divorced person? Yes, the longer we keep them there, the more they spend there, of course, but I believe it's money well spent because they get a new lease on life and recapture a whole lot of lost youth while they're down there and just every way they're benefited and improved. It's the nearest thing to going to paradise that can be achieved without dying. Is gambling included in that, Governor? No, sir, we have suppressed gambling in Florida almost completely. For more than 50 years, it operated just about as openly there as filling stations, but in the last three or four years, we have just about suppressed illegal gambling. We have gambling, a paramutual gambling, at the horse tracks, at old tracks, and at high live. But in Florida now, you run a serious risk if you get in a dice game or a card game where there's any money on it. You wouldn't say that the Senator Keith Over was responsible for that change, would you? He came down there and did a lot of shouting and hollering and screaming and bellring about it after we had made a good start towards suppressing it. He was using a special Senate committee for the purpose of promoting himself for president and he just came down, got a lot of headlines and did a lot of tubs up in it and noise making down there, Mr. Haynes. Well, Senator Keith Over, I believe, charges that some of those people around Miami were good friends of yours who were involved in that gambling. Mr. Huey, a man who runs for office is a good friend to everybody. He'll let him be a good friend to him. The fact is that under my administration, illegal gambling in Florida has been suppressed for the first time in more than 50 years. It was introduced into Florida in the 80s, as I recall it, and it had run almost without molestation for all that time. But under my administration, we have practically suppressed illegal gambling. We have plenty of legal paramutual gambling. Governor, I wonder why that side of the question didn't appear more plainly in the newspapers around the country? Well, Senator Keith Over and his accomplices were seeing that it didn't. They were bringing out whatever they wanted to bring out and suppressing whatever they didn't want to come out. He was running for president. He was not making a bona fide investigation, Mr. Hain. Now, sir, since tourism, to come back to that subject, since tourists contribute about one-third of the total income of Florida, is one of your pleasures and duties perhaps to invite people there? Have you been on a tour, for instance? Yes, sir. I have just covered 10 of the finest of the 48 states with the sole exception of Florida, which of course stands at the top of the list by any standard or measurement. But I've just come back from a tour of those 10 states inviting everybody in those states who hasn't already been to Florida to come and those who've already been there to come back. And I should at this time like to invite every person who is honoring us by listening and looking in on this program. And I understand it's one of the most popular programs in the Western world. I should like to invite every one of them to come to Florida. We have about five million annual visitors to Florida, but we've got room for plenty more down there. Governor, just how many days in the year does the sun shine in Florida? Well, its schedule is 365 days. It misses the schedule once in a while, Mr. Hain. But in St. Petersburg, as you know, a publisher gave away his pay for every day in the year that the sun didn't shine a little bit some of the day. Is he still in business? He's still in business and going strong. Yes, sir. Now, just about as in good shape, his long jeans watch is on. Well, Governor, to come back to the national political scene, which our viewers are particularly interested, just how do you believe that the election will go on November the 4th, 1952? Mr. Huey, you flatter me by asking me for what appears to be an opinion of mine. As I've said, I've been in politics mostly on the outer fringes of it for about 25 years. More than half of my lifetime, and all I can do is make a guess, and they're usually wild guesses. But I'll make a wild guess and say, in answer to your question, that the Republicans in 1952 AD will be defeated worse than they've been since 1936 AD. Remember, they carried two states there. You think Florida will be in the Democratic column? Yes, sir, I do, and I'd like to give you, Mr. Haines, a few of my reasons for believing that. In Florida, we have approximately 1,118,000 registered Democrats, with a big D, I mean, and we have about 88,000 Republicans and about 5,000 independents. I don't believe that the most credulous and naive man can believe that there'll be enough desertions among those 1,118,000 Democrats to give the Republicans a victory. We got a little taste of Republicanism in 1928. We never have recovered from it in Florida, Mr. Haines. We got another little taste of it in 1950, when one of our counties, Pinellas County, went Republican and the people are still weeping over it almost. And we just can't take the panics, it seems, to go with Republicanism. We don't like hard times. We love prosperity down there, and we've got it under the Democrats. Well, Governor, I'm sure that our viewers have very much appreciated seeing you tonight, and thank you for being with us, sir. Thank you, Mr. Huey. The opinions expressed are necessarily those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Laundrine Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Elliot Haines. Our distinguished guest was the honorable Fuller Warren, governor of the state of Florida. It's World Series time again, the best days of the year for baseball fans. And this year again, the World Series is Laundrine time. Yes, all the umpires of both American and national baseball leagues use Laundrine watches exclusively for timing all the games, including the World Series. Truly the most honored watch in the world of sport is Laundrine, the world's most honored watch. The only watch in history ever to win 10 World's Fair Grand Prizes, 28 gold medals, and so many honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing. That is why throughout the world, no other name on a watch carries the prestige of Laundrine, the world's most honored watch in sport. The watch of first choice with discriminating people the world over. And yet do you know that you may buy and own or proudly give a Laundrine watch for as little as $71.50. Laundrine, the world's most honored watch. Premier product of the Laundrine Witner Watch Company since 1866. Maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us for the Laundrine Chronoscope, a television journal of the important dishes of the hour. The broadcast on behalf of Laundrine, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Laundrine. This is Frank Knight reminding you that Laundrine and Witner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Laundrine Witner watches. Enjoy the Jackie Gleeson show on the CBS television network. It's time for the Laundrine Chronoscope, a television journal of the important dishes of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Laundrine Witner Watch Company. Maker of Laundrine, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Laundrine. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Laundrine Chronoscope? Mr. William Bradford Huey, editor of the American Mercury, and Mr. Henry Haslitz, contributing editor of Newsweek Magazine. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Mr. T. Lamar Cordell, former Assistant United States Attorney General. Well, Mr. Cordell, now that you are back in private life and done with being a bureaucrat, perhaps you can tell us something about the pressures that were brought on you when you were Assistant Attorney General. What kind of pressures are they? Well, Mr. Haslitz, the pressures were, I would say, in the third dimension, if you can understand that, but they came largely from the Senators and the Congressmen, almost continuously from the prominent men in public life that were over on the hill. They were in the form of telephone calls or visits or what? Well, the greater number of communications, of course, were over the telephone, but there were many, many conferences that were had with Senators and Congressmen in my office, and if the Senator happened to be a little older and so busy, I would accommodate the gentleman to go to his office. What would be a typical request? A typical request? Well... Would tax cases, for example, be involved? Oh, yes. When I was in the Tax Division, tax cases would be involved. I remember one which troubled me a great deal, almost one of the very beloved men in America. I sure do love him, and I have called him so many times that with the Vice President would they call me about an old friend of his, Daniel Louisville. He wanted a favor from you, sir? Well, sir, he was concerned about the illness of this fellow, and I told him that everybody who came to see me about tax cases were sick or something, they were sick, some was wrong with them. And I told him that the doctors and the government doctors felt that the ordeal of a trial would not result in the gentleman's death and there was no other alternative but to go ahead with your unpleasant duty. Well, now, Mr. Cardwell, to identify you a little further for our viewers, of course, you're this man from North Carolina, I believe. Yes, I'm from North Carolina. And then for about four years you were in the Tax Division of the Department of Justice. That's right. And you had to say the authority to either prosecute a tax case or else to settle it. Yes, sir. And that's what brought you under all these pressures. That's right. Unfortunately, you can't delicate this power to another unless in your absence. And you really have to stand up. Then all these committees got after you and then the president himself hauled off and fired you, didn't he? Yes, sir. He really broke loose on me. Why? I thought that Truman had a reputation of sticking by everybody. All his good friends, you were one of his good friends. I sure thought so. I tell you, he broke the legend, though, when he locked me out. What makes what your theory is to why the president singled you out and gave you the boot in such a fashion? Well, it would take too long to go into my theories. Our viewers, of course, know you as one of these mink men. Your wife at least got out of Washington with a mink coat, didn't she? Well, she got out of where it was paid for. That was one of the things she paid for it. I have to the last part, though. And where did that mink coat have anything to do with it? I don't much believe it did. Mrs. Truman has a mink coat. And I reckon a mother who has long wanted one for so long, and she argued that it would last for ten years, to be renovated just once a year, that it was all right. I told her it would suddenly get me into trouble if she bought it. What specifically were you charged with whenever you were fired? Well, outside activities. I've been trying to find out, Mr. Huey, what the outside activities were. Is that just me doing favors for your friends? I don't know. It's one of those things that the president did not tell the attorney general, Mr. McGrath, I tried to find out. I've been trying to find out what these outside activities were. Well, Mr. Carl, you were... I really don't know. At the end of one of the committee hearings, the chairman of a subcommittee, Congressman King, a year ago, asserted that you had been recurring to your trust and had done irreparable damage to the government. Now, what is your comment on that statement? He said I had done a disservice to my government. And I say to you, Mr. Hazard, when Chairman Cecil King made that remark, he did a disservice to his government, and he did a disservice to the honorable people in that tax division. How many? I didn't like that statement, either. How many tax divisions? In the four years you were in this tax position, sir. How many cases would you estimate that you handled? Approximately 16,000 civil cases. Probably 45% were compromised and settled. And approximately 2,500 income tax fraud cases. I see. Now, these cases, I'd like you to tell our viewers, you get calls from members of Congress during this period very often, didn't you? Oh, yes, sir. And those members of Congress, they wanted you to favorably consider their constituents, I assume. Yes, sir, they had... That's part of the system, isn't it? Oh, yes. They were... They were... A strong representation had been made to these gentlemen. They were honorable in all of their relations with me. They were... Some were very much convinced that I was about to do an injustice by indicting someone. And, of course, I would try to convince the congressman that I had no other alternative, because the facts were so strong that it just had to be done. I'd like to take up one specific case. Let's take the case of the Kansas City vote frauds. All right. Now, you were in on that for a while. That's right. Were you called in by anybody, or did you step in by yourself? Most of the Kansas City investigation stemmed from a good many calls that we received in the way of complaints from individuals out in the congressional district that Congressman Axel and Congressman Slater... Now, this was in 1946. And Congressman Axel was the congressman that the Democratic candidate that President Truman favored. Yes. And it was argued that fraud was used to elect him over his Democratic opponent. That was the case. Yes, so that was the case. The president... And a lot of to-do was done about it in Kansas City. Oh, yes. And then it came to your attention. Is that what happened? That's right. Now, sir, just by way of information, how does a man who's been district attorney down in North Carolina, how does he get a position such as you occupied in Washington? Some senator bring you there? No, sir. No senator had anything to do with my going to Washington. Mr. Clark told me that when I took over the office as United States attorney, it had the lowest rating in the United States. And when he wanted one to fill the vacancy that he had created by accepting the attorney generalship of the country, he said that because of the splendid record which I had made, he had talked with the president, and they had decided to extend the invitation to me. And that was why I came to Washington. Neither Senator Hoy, who was senator then, or Senator Bailey, I believe Senator Bailey, neither one of the gentlemen knew about the invitation to come, and of course, Mr. Clark told me he went to see them personally. And after you get to such a position where you have the decision over many dollars, millions of dollars in tax cases, all of these calls that you get from the White House, from members of Congress, that's inherent in our system, isn't it? Yes, sir. It is a very, very normal thing that one who has to make the decision, he has to face it. I'd like to get back to this specific case that we took up because I think we'd clarify the whole situation if we went into something like, let's say, the Kansas City vote case. Now, you were called in on that, and you stayed in for a while, and then you were taken off it? Well, what happened, Mr. Hazard, was that the preliminary investigation, this preliminary investigation has become quite a famous memoranda. The FBI had completed its preliminary investigation embracing all the... All the Kansas City case. Yes, all the Kansas City case, embracing the investigation of the Kansas City star. They had 15 investigators, and there were 8,000 people interviewed and out of that number, 1,354 affidavits were taken. And that was a part of the preliminary investigation that was reported to me by the FBI. Now, of course, we analyzed these things. You turned it over to the FBI. We asked them to investigate. We asked them to make a preliminary investigation to determine... because we knew if we had a full investigation, it would cost a staggering sum of money because it would cost almost $300,000. Did the President call you off that investigation? No, no. Or was it through his orders that you were called off? No, no, no. No, sir. I was... I never received any communication from the White House, from any source, and we all really believe that the facts were not sufficient to warrant a further investigation because we could not find where there was any evidence that two or more people conspired together to deprive someone of a right to vote. Well, Mr. Cartl, one of the important things to you, I believe, is that in the last two or three weeks you've undergone extensive investigation watched in by the CHELF committee. That's right. After which, Mr. CHELF more or less rendered this judgment in which he said that you were a, quote, an honest man who was indiscreet in his associations and a pliant conformer to the peculiar moral climate of Washington. Now, is that a fair description of your experience, sir? Well, I know that the chairman and Mr. Keating was right when they said to the American people that I was an honest man. I have no disagreement there at all, and I know they're right. Now, they spoke of the peculiar moral climate of Washington. Is it peculiar? Well, it is the most peculiar. I think they were right there. It was the most peculiar moral climate you'll find in any city in the world. Everybody who gets off at Union Station, off a bus or when he parks his car or comes in from the National Airport, he goes to Washington for something and he disappointed if he does not take it home with him. I see. Well, I'm sure that our viewers have very much appreciated these frank statements from you tonight, sir, and thank you for being with us. The opinions that you've heard our speakers express tonight are entirely their own. The editorial board for this edition of the Laungene Chronoscope was Mr. William Bradford Huey and Mr. Henry Haslett. Our distinguished guest was Mr. T. Lamar Caudal, former Assistant United States Attorney General. A watchmaker such as Laungene recalls that Christopher Columbus made his great voyages before the watch was invented. His only timepiece, an hourglass, like this 15th century one, which happens to be the property of the Hayden planetarium. This, of course, had to be reversed every half hour. Now, Columbus Day marks a milestone for Laungene watches, too, because this gold medal was presented to Laungene at the St. Louis Columbian Exhibition, which honored the 400th anniversary of Columbus' discovery of America. Now, consider how consistently Laungene watches have maintained their leadership over the years. Laungene is the only watch in history to win ten World's Fair Grand Prizes, twenty-eight gold medals, and literally thousands of awards for accuracy from great government observatories. Today's Laungene watches are our finest, distinguished for exclusive styling, endowed with those traditional qualities of accuracy and long life for which Laungene watches are world-honored. Truly, throughout the world, no other name on a watch means so much as Laungene, the world's most honored watch, a premier product of the Laungene Wittner Watch Company, since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at this same time for the Laungene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, broadcast on behalf of Laungene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, a distinguished companion to the world-honored Laungene. This is Frank Knight, reminding you that on election day, you're the most important person in the country. So exercise your privilege as an American citizen and vote for the candidate of your choice. Now Tuesday nights, leave at Tulare on the CBS television network.