 Le wnaeth am yng Nghymru, felly ei wneud i'r dysgu am yw yw'r mwyaf dalgw Court favourite. Yn maen nhw'n gael gwybodaeth ar y cwmngol. Felly, o hynny, rwy'n'n mynd i ddweud i'r designer. Roeddaf gyda â ymddi. Roeddwn yn hwnnw'n cael obsies ar gyfer Y Munary of Ymwrth. Felly, roedd yma mae'r ffordd yn ffacol gyda Alun. Roeddaf er mwyn hynny, ond'n sy'n croes i'r lockdown, mwyn dweud i'r un sy'n fawr i'r un. Rydyn ni'n dddweud yn cofer o'r gailuri, ac rwy'n i'n ddau yn ddweud â'u cyffredinol o bobl. Mae'vell iawn i'n roi'r llan, sy'n ddysgol yn eto'r syniad. Rym ni'n ôl yn ddaniau y llan, ac rwy'n dweud hynny, wnaeth ein bod yn cael ei brifael cyhoedd yn rwyf. Mae ddim yn ei ddarganen beth gydig egwyddonon o'i meddwl o'r idea, Ond rydyn ni'n bryd i'r amser yr adeiladol o gyffredinol. O glo, dyna'r athodol ni'n gyffredinol o'r gaelio, gerchent陰idd yomed sut oedd y haes deisdydd yn byddwyr be er soundfodol, raddiau sanc ynghylch, a heddiw grandfatheros oherwydd. That's my home. I'm hoping that the colleges will get back to it as soon as possible. I have to do credit for this. You don't, of course, get credit screens at the start, do you? But really everything you're about to see is done in collaboration with all these wonderful people. Maybe the takeaway is that, everyone's coming from different perspectives and design have as very multidisciplinary, mewn clywbodaeth i'r gwybodaeth. Rwy'n erioed fel gael fothwng am gwahanol y gallwn dyma o'r cosa eich Ysbyty. Mae gennych yn y peth o hyn fy rai o'r gwybod, oherwydd ydych chi'n rhoi gwybod yn gwen隨bl ar gael y cysylltu. Mae cyn ydych chi'n rhoi, a hynny'n ei ddweud o'r gŵr o'r gallai cyfyng yma wedi bod yn y dda o unedig yw unedig yn ei fodfod o objwysion ar gyfer yna a nhw'n rhywbeth eich bod eich bydd o bwysig. so here we literally asking people to tell a story about an object they cared deeply about that allowed us to stand up a platform we got a large grant, epsford grant, and then literally built tales of things I think if you go and Google it now it's probably falling apart but at the time it really caught a moment when we saw databases become smart to some extent. Searchable, public, open after web point 2.0 and it made thinking Cymru gydag y gallai cyfnodd ar gyfer ac mae'n gweithio i'r ddweud yn allanol i'r rhaglen, ac mae'n gweithio i'n gweithio'r hyn o'r ffrindiau. A dyna'n gallu'n gweithio'r ddweud y ddweud yn y gweithio'n gweithio unig. Dwi'n gwybod i ddefnyddio sydd yn gallu'r gweithio sydd wedi'u cofnodd maen nhw. Felly Nelson Mandela'r 90th yrddangodeg ar Hyde Park yng Nghymru. Dwi'n gweithio'r gweithio yma, ac mae'n cael ei fod yn cael eu teithio. Annie had his with him by promoting the app by Auq Sam. Two tag things before they went into the Auq Sam shops. Then we followed up with a small show at the National Museum of Scotland where, again, familiar objects were added. Interestingly, we had ghost objects here, so blanked out things that people might recognise such as a rotary dial telephone. Y rhan o'r prydd, mae'r QR Codes yn gwneud y peth yn ystod o'r andreid yn ystod o'r objekt. Ond yna, o'r objektyd, y fawr objektyd, os yw'r lefydd, ychydig yn cymryd yn ystod o'r pryddau, yna ychydig unrhyw peth yn ei wneud ystod o'r andreid, oedd o'r hyn o'r andreid o'r bandr o'r andreid o'r bandr. So mae'r telefon ac mae'r gwasg telefon o'r andreid. Ond mae'n ystod o'r andreid o'r ddaeth, ysgol, ystod o'r fan. ddweud y cysylltau, ddweud y cysylltau yw'r ddweud, mae'n cael ei ddweud. Fyddwn i ddim yn i'r pryd, mae'n 10 oes, a bod rwy'n mynd i'n mynd i'ch gweithio'n gwybod am y ddechrau'n llunio'n ddweud yma, ond mae'r llunio'n ddweud yma. Rydym ni'n gweithio'n gweithio'n ddweud y cyffredinol, maen nhw yw nesaf i fyyd ymlaen, dwi'n holl er mwyaf 12 oedd. Fy'r metheroedd yn ymweld fel wahar, dyma'r gweithio felly mae'r gweithio o their yn mynd i gwneud y maen nhw'n eu gwneud mewn dweithio dechrau o gwneud hyn o'r adegau, a dwi'n gwneud ddarparu gwahanol yn dweud. Diolch yn gwneud, mae hefyd, fan y mewn gwneud maen nhw'n gwneud ddigonwch angen i ddemwy o'r gwbl y cwmdeithasol yng Nghymru, nid o'r maes ffarnig o'r ddweud. Felly, rwy'n gweithio'n meddwl cysylltu yma sy'n gwybod, mae'n ddim yn bryd yn ymgylch yn cymryd, sy'n gyfrifio yma, ar y cwmdeithio'r 20th yma, yn ei ddweud, yn ymgylch yn cyfraith cyfraith, sy'n ddweud ar y bydd y cyfrifio'r ddweud yn y pryd yng Nghyrch model. Yn nhw i ymwys, yng Nghymru, Kelogs, Hyns, y BBC i'w pwysig yw Lleidwadus, ac yn ddweud y cyfgawr cyfnodau. Felly, fel y internet yn ymdweud, mae'n amser o'n mynd i'r pwysig ac mae'n mynd i'r pwysig ac mae'n ei ddweud ac mae'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'r pwysig ac mae'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n pwysig. Efallai y web.20 mae'n pwysig ac mae'n pwysig. Felly sut y llif yn ymdano'r archif i'ch gynnwysmwysgolol i'r gymol bynnag? Rhyw lefydd y mae'n cael ei gweithredu? Rhyw lefydd y mae'n cael ei gweithredu? A bach yn siarad Dodol? Of坐r, mae'r cynhyrchu i triggered yw'r gweithredu? Mae'n ddraethol. Mae'r gwneud y swydd yn meddwl ei chwyn, mae hi'n cael ei gweithredu. ac mae'n arwain i gwneud llawer y web.20 a 19 yn entydd arnos, Tryn, ha-ha-ha-ha, will find out if they fail miserably, but beginning to contain because much data in archives can leak and we've all got stories where we decided to upload to Flickr and then quickly pull things off or whether we do licent things openly or whether we try to make things proprietary and find ways to build or retain some of the value ourselves and there's lots of models that have failed and lots of examples I'm sure that have succeeded. But I suppose casting everything we do is very hard to hang on to data these days. So, if you think that value that data does represent and co-creates aspects of value in the digital economy, it's hard to think how it doesn't, it might be possible to suggest that our primary representation of value has shifted from money in the 20th century to data. All those things that we bought through Kellogg's, Heinz, Volkswagen, whatever, Apple, actually yes they had a price tag on them and they had value chains, but now if we think about a network proposition actually value is co-created in many different ways because of the flow of data. And critically I think things that we're interested in is if it does change and move away from an economic perspective does it allow us to change the values that you can represent. So let's dive in because what John Oberland and my best pal unfortunately died back in 2017 but before he did we wrote this little manifesto for my own students, our own students on the master's programme and also the group which talked about how do we help the designers begin to think about working with data. And John being a literary kind of guy picked up on the ablative framework which actually is a reverse I think, I think it's buy with from but we flipped it because it made sense when we thought about how our students were starting to use data in different ways. So the really briefly designed from data is when we go out into the world and extract things and bring them back. With data you'll find that we're in amongst live real-time flows of data and then the last one by data preempts this idea that maybe data itself has a propensity to come up with ideas on its own to begin to extend that more than human idea. But let's dive in and I think I'm hoping these three lenses allow you not just to see the nature of our research but maybe ask questions around how you value data and how you want to work with people. So the first one when systems are designed by people, when they're inspired by measurable features of humans, computers, things in their context design from data. Now the from data piece is very much thinking about we go out into the world virtually on our feet and we take things back to our studios. And I'm going to use this as just a couple of examples. We've been fascinated in the way that data is starting to have forms of economic value through Bitcoin and smart contracts. Whether we worry about the money or not, nevertheless people are starting to construct smart contracts to manage the flow of information and then release certain powers. This is an old PWC slide which is a little bit dubious because it implies right in the middle there that a smart contract might operate between, well I like the key one, the landlord remotely locks out a tenant because they haven't paid and that's a smart contract. But anyway that's the context. When we design by data then some things we do is build something, it's a real, it's a prototype, it's not supposed to be a manufactured object and it allows people to interact with it and then we interview them afterwards. So things go out into the world and then we listen to them and we take from them, we take their experiences. So this is quite a playful one. We built a Bitcoin coffee machine and here you'll see Rory, the developer, he just wants a coffee, but we would give this to groups of people and interview them afterwards about how they felt. And here you can see he's offered lots of coffees but actually what he wants to know and the machine wants him to take an ethical vote on which coffee beans the machine should buy next. And it could be best price, which is what he clicked on, which isn't very appropriate, or from a social resource community or from an environmental. And you can see actually the community that was in voted for a social responsible coffee bean for the machine because it's got its own Bitcoin wallet to buy next. So the from element comes is then when we go and listen and pursue interviews and bring that information back to them, write papers on. Another example, again we're designers, we designed with members of the EU community to think about what the implication of these types of Bitcoin smart contracting technologies do. This is how many people imagine energies managed in the UK. I don't know about other countries, but we have this balancing problem that there's only so much energy from all the power stations. And there's a team who has to balance that energy so that it's eight o'clock tonight when we're all sitting down watching Netflix or we have a break and have a cup of tea that we can manage the energy needed to turn all those kettles on. The idea being really through the EU is how could we decentralize that? How could we ask the public to take responsibility for managing their own energy? So like the bit barista, we develop three prototypes that we put out in the world. They don't really work, well they work just enough to perform a theatre with people so that we can then interview them to see how they felt about the speculative possible future of managing data and energy. So this one, Sean, is once his hair dried, but actually what he's doing, he's going to get up at four in the morning, buy some cheap energy and then sell it to Anna at seven o'clock on a Friday evening when she's prepared because of an emergency date to go and pay the top price for it. So actually the hairdryer for Sean is actually a way of making his way through university and actually getting free hair dried. So he is balancing the grid if you like because he's getting up late and making sure he can store local energy. The second one says that Sean actually struggles with getting up at four in the morning so he's written a little bot that sits on top of this hairdryer and he can code it with the values that he wants. So actually he does want green energy. So he sets the smart contract running, it can't deliver him instant energy, but it does it, then negotiates with the internet and finds green energy. But that might take ten minutes, folks, and our question to you would be, and with participants, was how long would you take for certain actions if you could drive a value proposition toward your values, whether they're green values, for example. Social values. How long are you prepared to wait? And what does that mean for the implication of changing who has power in these centralized networks? The last one actually took away all the buttons because we don't believe anyone would do any of this. We just think you're all heading for 1.5 degrees plus and actually you all want beautiful looking hair. So we took the buttons away and in this one it's a provocation. Perhaps it's the most designed by-data artifact because it says that, well, the systems themselves will balance out the energy according to the planet and you might have to wait half an hour to blow dry your hair so you won't even get the button. So what we do then, and it's going to scamper through these, we throw these prototypes into the world and we ask people literally to speculate how they would use them. In this instance we happen to use some local actors and they played out what people had said. For example, this is an actor, she's just going to plug in one of the hairdressers in someone else's house to make money. And which was a kind of a breach. It transgresses the idea that this person walks into your library and starts making money from your energy feed and the others were upset by this idea. The second one speculates this idea, well it's entirely autonomous and therefore it's a bit like living with a cat who has its own inclination. It will do its own things but it will try to make value for the family. The last one is more around this idea of an invisible flatmate that they're not quite sure who is doing what in the house anymore. So this is how we design from. We put things in the world, we listen to how they land and we take that back and write up papers about what that means for the next steps. Now that's all very good and some of the big questions I'm going to ask you folks is how do you then co-create value in your digital economies? How do archives do that? Scampering on, design with data tries to take away the idea that we extract from the world when systems, yes, are still designed by people, when they take into account the flows of data through systems and the need to make data manifest, particularly reduces obfuscation. And the critical thing here is the flows of data. So we find examples of real time value creation because value is flowing around and data is flowing around and we caught up, we're entangled in it. Which is very different to giving someone an object and then interviewing them. So in this example, these are about 50 cash cups, a little ceramic cups designed by Katie West who's a Scottish ceramicist. We took them out to the Netherlands. What's about to happen though is that every coffee cup you could just about see has got a colour on the bottom. That's a radio frequency identifier that allows us this little base to know who they are, who owns it and how much value it's got with it. So what happens here is if I put a cash cup on the saucer and it hasn't got any credit, then I'll get a red circle and I can't spend it at the barista. I'll show you in a minute. However, if I put two red cups on, they suddenly both turn green, which means I can then confirm that my coffee cup, because they've got numbers, has got credit. So it's a not a mind. You don't actually know who you are. You've got a certain coffee cup. It means I can take my now green coffee cup and go over to the barista and I've got a free coffee. Now this is the fun bit because actually what we're really doing then is constructing value because these people have never met before. They're really happy to meet when we're forcing them into a social engagement in which ask them they need to connect to each other to get each other some credit. And all of those people then went off and exchanged for coffee and the conversation was incredibly rich that the services these artifacts is around conversation. Conversely, and we had a huge queue in this very, very popular and a great barista adding value. The queue was huge just through the doors at the back there. There's free coffee, completely free coffee, but it's from a plunge device to learn one of those portable kettles. And so few people wanted it because the role of the coffee cup was to co create conversation. OK, on to my second example. Again, we tied people up into the nets of information there. This is another one where we really wanted to put people in the middle of an entangled relationship with the flows of data. Just to set the scene because I'm going to show you an app in a moment. This is Jonathan. He's demonstrating what a smart contract is here. He's put a pound in that little cog in the middle and he's pressed the button there on the right. If in the next five minutes there is an earthquake anywhere on the planet, that one pound coin will turn to the right and will give the money to Oxfam's emergency response fund. If there isn't an earthquake in the next five minutes, then the cog will turn to the left and you'll get your money back. So it's a very simple idea of trying to connect people who are very disconnected in the Oxfam value chain about how they're giving money. They're maybe donating clothes. How do you connect them to the live actions, environmental, political, that means we have charities, global charities existing? So this is the final thing. This was released in Australia. This is the first release and actually it's going out again in the spring actually this year. So what's going to happen here is that it's an app and I'm just going to show you how it works. We're going to dive into the earthquake insurance. This person is now going to set up a conditional contract. So in this study we gave Australians, we gave them 10 bucks each. So we gave them 10 Australian dollars and we put it into this escrow on the blockchain. And this person is choosing that if there is an earthquake over 3.5 on the Richter scale in those continents and actually they're prepared to spend $5 of their complete fund, which we've given them, so it's not their money, but on every instance of an earthquake they'll give out 50 cents and they'll do it over three or four days. So they've set up a conditional relationship with the earth and a conditional relationship with a validated party which happens to be the American Geological Association who report. They've got pretty reliable data on earthquakes and in this way if we now look on the right that contract has been signed on the blockchain and in this instance here I can see the earthquake insurance was created. You get a cooling off period actually with smart contracts. It's kind of an aspect characteristic of blockchain but here we're beginning to find out that the report. So here we saw the contract was signed and we also know that it was sealed. They couldn't back out. Oxam couldn't get out of it. But every blue one is an example when an earthquake has taken place and I could pause it just to say that look there's an earthquake of 4.8 in the Philippines and out travels the money. So they can't go back on this. They can't welch on the deal. They're just and they run out and if your earthquake is too low then trust me there's earthquakes happening all of the time. So this is again designing with data trying to place people in a context an entanglement with data in the world. It's deeply affective actually. Some people felt it was too affective that they didn't realise earthquakes were taking place all the time. On the other hand it turned into a news feed for some people because they found that Australian news was dominated by particular issues. The last area then is designing by data when systems are designed by other systems. So we're talking about data itself having agency to essentially work autonomously when new products and services can be synthesised by the data intensive analysis existing combinations and humans are demoted into a rather flat platform here. And just a couple of examples and I'm curious about again how your archives might design by data themselves. So this is Martin. This isn't my work at all. We commissioned it through design informatics and creative informatics a large grant. But I thought it was wonderful because what he does is essentially he's very worried about Zoom and he feels that Zoom is taking my face now and actually no one knows where it's going. So he built a little application that runs as a camera that I can plug into Zoom and literally show a face of myself but it has an uncanny resemblance to me or to him in this case, but also to some of the image libraries that talk about a white male with dark hair with a moustache slash beard. So you begin to get this averaging and his friends recognise him, but on the other hand there's an uncanny sense of being obfuscated. So it's highly likely that Zoom can't sell his face on even though people in his network recognise him. And this, folks, is what he did to me. So that's me on the left and that was my Zoom avatar. It was a way that actually designing by data the algorithm was assisting me in thinking about how I preserved some of my identity, assuming that we're not still not sure what Zoom do with our data. And the last example really is really trying to rethink what happens when we let go. This is a particular design question. And this was posited back in 2014 that maybe by 2017 a significant disruptive digital business will be launched that was conceived by computer algorithm. And startups are probably going to be led by algorithms, not by humans. Well that was the proposition. We were interested because it might suggest that as designers for the 20th century had superstar designers, Jive, Zaha Hadid, Thomas Heatherwick at the top of the pyramid, then we started to recognise the value of participatory working in the crowd. Much of us work in a co-design model now, but what happens if we just ask things to design for us? Is it that all of the chairs that you're all sitting on, if they could talk to each other perhaps they would tell us what would be better for them, for us and the planet? And that will be again a design by data idea. So a little example, this is designed by people. 854 people work collaboratively, nothing to do with me, but it's quite a cool idea. Work to design and co-design these extension cables. But if you could imagine all the extension cables in Europe were linked up to each other, what would they tell us about the crazy things humans get up to? And how might they then mitigate against that? Rather than selling us value according to certain market competition, how might things guide us? So an example might be this particular thing, and the idea is to demonstrate how the machine learning might work here, so forgive my crude story. This thing doesn't know what it is folks, hasn't a Scooby-Doo. All it knows is it gets up in the morning, is particularly busy in the evening, and late at night it has a shower, huge shower, with some of its friends. We found out that its friends, one is very curvaceous and one is very sharp. And then after a period of time, by looking at the data sets and what these things do across the entire internet, it figures out that maybe it's a fork, which is quite interesting this idea that things find themselves and they find their purposes. Having said that, this particular thing is confused because someone in the household keeps using it to open tin paint cans and they use it to lever them open. So periodically it's also becoming a screwdriver. So we set out on a piece of work with a team in Tokyo and also in the Netherlands beginning to look at what happens when things could begin to show us other ways of working. So we did a whole bunch of machine learning, particularly looking at image use of forks, believe it or not. And we found that, yes, there's lots of examples that many of you perhaps don't realise because you're obsessed with forks being good for one thing. Actually forks are great for tying bows. Who knew? They're great for gardening. In terms of hybridisation, there's lots of ways that the things, if we ask them, might ask them to be associated with other activities or objects to hybridise them. We also found evidence where they were partially hybridised with other artefacts where forks then become part of another desirable property to make something new. Or they're just plain repurposed. So again, the funding ran out on this one, but the idea was that it led to the proposition. I just want to finish perhaps with some of the actual work that came out which informed a bunch of papers around thing ethnography. Ethnography tends to imply that we're working with humans and many ethnographers have turned to these kind of cameras that they hang on participants to capture where humans go in the daytime. But actually we started to put them on objects to listen to their side of the story. So in this little video what you're seeing is you're seeing a human view, you're also seeing a fridge view and you're also seeing a kettle view. And it was really funny. It tells us lots of stories. It turned out, and I don't think we knew this from the human, that there's a love affair going on between in this particular household. It turns out that both of the humans have a particular favourite cup, and they keep going to this cup. They didn't know. They don't mind if the cup's not available, but they both gravitate to one cup. And it was the cup that told us that the humans prefer it than perhaps any other type of cup. So the close off, I wonder how you might think about how we do collect data from the world, how we stay in the world and design with it, and then how we might begin to start trusting if we can trust some of the AI, the machine learning, the data driven technologies that begin to provoke more than human perspectives. And I'll just encourage you to keep thinking in a network. You will have value for your archive because you allow people to co-create its value. Thank you very much. I'm not sure if I ran over at all, Anna, so I'm just going to stop sharing it and see if I can click there. No, that's perfect. Thank you so much. So we've opened up the floor to questions from our participants. If you have any, please do put them into the Q&A, or feel free to raise your hand, and you can join us in our virtual space here. And while you're busy kind of thinking, if it's okay, I will start with a question for you, Chris. So I was really interested in whether you could say just a little bit more about how you think that kind of framework of designing from with and by data might be applied to either kind of how we're thinking about service design, or the data that we're collecting around our users and our collections, or actually the objects that we might hold within our special collections or archives or museums for some of us. Yeah, sure. I suppose the key thing for me and the team is this idea of boosting agency. How do we let more stories come forward? Or how do we allow the power to be spread so that more people feel that they can come forward? There's a real challenge. I think we know, all of us will know that not everyone comes forward, not everyone feels that they have voice. In fact, we know that our archives probably need to go through some level of decolonisation, and we need to flatten some of the power bases that frame the archives, represent certain people and misrepresent others or don't represent them at all. So I suppose leaning into the ablative framework, is it possible then that if we skip the from because that's us going into the world to do the collecting, assuming that we have biases, either we have to extend our network to make sure more people are represented or they're more diverse, other histories come forward, or if it's with, how can we design with the archives that we have already? Is it that we're looking for absence? How do we follow their use, their adoption? And again, are they leaning towards certain priorities or dominant parties? And finally with the buy, how might a loyal AI, if you like, begin to identify what we are missing? How do we lean into a more than human or perhaps a plural approach to understanding the limitations of particular archives? How might an archive, an AI in an archive begin to link through to build different constellations across archives that then give different futures, different reflections of the past so that we can talk about futures in different ways? So I still think they're quite useful lenses. I don't know if they work with this audience. Oh, I think so, and we've got a question which has come through, which I think kind of picks up that topic. So from Angus, who's asked, says, one of your examples made wonder about the factual, non-factual connotations of data and whether design by deception is something archives need to be concerned about. That's great. Really interesting question Angus. I did fine art, so I've moved into design because it's a place where perhaps I think more co-creation takes place. Artists like to do their thing and we like probably to do their thing, but I do like transgressive moments so I really enjoy the idea that technology might, if we're not careful, represent certain normalised practices which then fall under some jurisdiction of what's right and what's wrong. And I think I would much prefer an archive that showed us transgressions movements away pushing against certain hegemony, if you like. So design by deception sounds thrilling. It sounds like a course I need to run instantly for my undergrads, let alone my postgrads. In fact, we really upset the product design students a few years ago by asking them to design for shoplifting. And some of them really found it distressing because they didn't want to lean into something that was potentially going to put themselves or other communities in exposed position. But we kept it very safe within the academy, but it did allow us to think about who owns what's right or what's wrong. Is it, are we privileged in knowing that certain, do we all think that you have all got Netflix, the BBC, Apple, Prime and Disney and probably countless others. My hunch is we don't. I think my hunch is that we assume many of you still end up with illegal copies by hook or by crook or by stunts or by daughters. And actually, it's probably about time that we talked not about deception about how certain economies get away being part of a social conversation. If we cut people out from the conversation because they're not allowed or they can't afford to get in, then I'm not sure we can have a public debate about things. So I like the deception or I like the opportunity to frame things. I think the question there is who decides what is deceptive or what is deceitful. Because I hope it's not a police position. Someone's going to be the policing. Yeah, I might prefer not to think in that. So yeah, let's let's lead into design by deception. Thank you. Thank you very much. So we again just a kind of we welcome people to kind of raise their hands if they'd like to ask Chris a question pop something into the chat. Sorry, the question and answer function as opposed to the chat. And in the meantime, I'm just going to ask. So I'm really interested in that kind of point of creation that you've talked about. And I wondered what you thought kind of more generally the role of the library was within a kind of tech ecosystem. So how how might we be more involved and kind of really interested in student innovation and how we kind of encourage creativity within our universities. And what do you think that kind of the value might be for us in helping people think about those kind of startups and scale ups. Yeah, that's a great question. I wonder whether you and the community see themselves. I mean that we know perhaps we need to acknowledge the West Coast imaginary around startups as being problematic. So let's just put that out there already that the hacker, the hustler, the hipster and the archivist, the librarian. At what point does the community have a stake because it will strike me as vital, absolutely vital. Because if we pursue a trajectory that the startup team is somehow born out of, maybe if it's born in the academy, it's about students working together around a post-doc project or a master's project and building up steam. They find their economic business model and then they drive down the tech. They get in a hipster to make it look cool and human centred. But where was the archives? I wonder whether there's tremendous opportunity for thinking about how we enter these and the community call them funnels. Where is the role in the funnel towards scaling up a sense of addressing the digital humanities if that's the right frame? And I can't believe there isn't. And I wonder what, I hope this doesn't sound terrible, but what would a WeWork, because I'm not a great fan of WeWork or one of those hired spaces where you can hot desk, what would they be doing if they were in a library or an archive? How might that change the nature of the products and services that they produce? They're all largely data-driven, but to what extent are their databases ill-informed because of the things this particular community could bring to bear around biases, sensitivities, representation? Sometimes you're super good at obfuscating to allow different stories to come forward, even ontologically putting things together in certain ways. So, yeah, it strikes me as a missing opportunity, and I don't hear many communities. Maybe there's something RLUK could ask and go straight and ask. I mean, with Edinburgh, we've got code bases. There's, of course, there's places, lots of places like in London, start-up communities. What about the role of existing archives? Having said that, I also don't want to muddy or sully any of your integrity, because you might think, no way, we're not going near that. But on the other hand, there's a moment of innovation, perhaps, that both parties might mutually benefit from. Yep, for sure. OK, while we've been talking, another question has come in. So, from Rosie, she asks, the types of design from, with, by day two, describe a really exciting. How do we balance these possibilities with environmental concerns, especially with regards to blockchains and NFTs? Great, yeah, great question, Rosie. So, we go in, and this is a, I don't know how you'll feel about this, but so we go in, we work with the blockchain developers. We'll take the ethical stance that will only spin up and work with blockchains that do, are environmentally conscious. So, the way that certain blockchains work changes how much energy they use, according to how they prove the cryptography in a crude sense, and the proof of work ones are really wicked. They're just the Bitcoin one, particularly wicked. There are plenty of others that actually look at collaboration to prove that evidence or transactions are fair. So, actually, there's lots of co-operative and social models in which we can think about a distributed approach to, if you think about this distributed ledger. How do we prove that the ledger is correct? And mining is a particularly heavy one for Bitcoin, but I promise there's lots of other ones. I think that the question is, if I zoom out a little bit, I think we're going to have to talk about the environmental benefits of decentralising and taking responsibility for energy, for consumption of data, so on and so forth. I think that's probably going to happen, because unfortunately I'm reading Ministry for the Future, which is a really bleak short-term science fiction about actually the governments won't get their act together. The corporations won't get their act together. So, I have a tendency to lean into decentralised opportunities in which technology can bind and empower people to make informed decisions. But you're absolutely right. We need to do it in such a way that does not exacerbate or extend. On NFTs, I think what's fascinating, because really the jury is out, is that how do we find ways to talk about ownership after the 20th century, though? Because I do think I'm surrounded by artefacts which other people can't get to, and maybe libraries feel like that. So, thinking about how we have a way of opening up more probably does mean we need ways to track some objects. There's so many objects and things in the world which just go into a landfill, simply because we can't follow the data. So, I wouldn't... I think the NFTs thing is interesting, because you could begin to follow the data and then not hold people to account, but begin to allow other people to borrow that artefact. Without a registry it's very hard to imagine. But hey, I'm making this up to be honest, Rosie. So, good question, and we do what we can. Thanks, Chris. Can I ask just what your next project is? What's the next? Because you've done some such interesting work, and what's coming down the line that we would maybe have a sneak preview of? Yeah, and I really... So, okay, I've tried this on my wife and my daughter, and they think it's silly. But when we did the earthquake, we built a number of what we call those CSORs, their smart contract, physical smart contract devices. And one of them was very, very simple. You could write in felt-it-pen a hashtag that you wanted every time it was tweeted, money would pass to the charity. So, if you wrote down something about lifeboats, or RNLI, every time someone tweeted, money literally moved through that central cog onto the RNLI. And actually, the RNLI tweet, every time a lifeboat goes out, they tweet. So, we just put money into this big well, and money was then passed over. And it was great, it was very good, very visual. Now, what I've been doing recently is hijacking that same tool, and I'm trying to wash money. But usually, when we talk about washing money, it's actually washing badness out of money. So, I have some money that's perhaps been caught up in a mafia imaginary, and I need to move it through the University of Edinburgh, and it will wash, it will launder the money and clean it out. Well, I wonder if we could start laundering money with values that we care about. So, the idea now is to build a similar artefact, and I ask you to give me, Anna, five pounds. So, I have an eyesettle, and I'm going to take five pounds out of your bank account. But what I'm going to do is, when someone tweets on an issue that you care about, Black Lives Matter through libraries forever, through whatever it is, then I'll give you your five pounds back. And I want you to know that that five pounds should be spent, it should be thought about, because your bank account is the biggest data set you have about your lifestyle, and it's also potentially, given pensions, your most powerful artefact to move change. So, folks, if that makes sense, I want to take five pounds off each of you now, and I'm going to wash it with good values, values that you think that money should be operating as in the future. So, that's the current work, Anna. How do I reverse laundering? A good practice. Oh, that sounds amazing. I think there's so many opportunities here for us when we're thinking about the work we do. I had to be much more imaginative around the data that we have and are collecting, and there's interactions as well. I'm just going to open up the floor to see if anybody has any final questions for Chris. I must admit, if in doubt, get an artist in residence, if in doubt. Martin Disley, who did the work with the AI, the Doppelgangers, he won a small grant to go and work in the National Library of Scotland and was just fantastic. The curator allowed him deep into some image files, databases, and he wrote an AI to then start pulling things up. One of the tactics was to push any images from the two big bridges, the Tay Bridge and the Forth Bridge, into a combined generative adversarial network. So you had these odd images, and the public stuff, that's not the Forth Road Bridge. It's seared into my memory, the Forth Rail Bridge. That isn't it, and it wasn't it. It was a combination, and trickily, it was also a combination of the Tay Rail disaster. But what was fascinating, people stood up and took notice, and there was a conversation starting to take place because these images were brought out of the archive, and it was though the archive was speaking, saying, I'm still here, I want your attention, and I want you to look at this human. So, if in any doubt, folks, get a designer or an artist in residence, and they'll get creative. I'm sure you're very creative, though. Yeah, and that idea of giving our objects or our materials their own agency to speak for themselves without our values laden across them, it's just fascinating. You might speculate, because if we put an object in the archive with our biases, and we didn't put the other object in, how might we help that one object to then go and learn what its friend might be? So how would you get an object that is in an archive to go and look for something that is equivalent, or its friend, how do you build things? Because, of course, they're all loaded with biases, the way we put them in in the first place. So we don't want to extend those biases. What we want to do is pluralise the opportunity for that object to be connected to other cultures.