 It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa and our first conversation for this morning. As the 2023 general elections draw nearer, the federal government has retreated that the administration of President Mohammed Bari is not and will not be a threat to the media. The Minister of Information and Culture, Lai Mohammed, gave the reassurance when a delegation from the International Press Institute, Nigerian Chapter, paid him a curtsy visit in Abuja. He said, Nigeria has one of the most vibrant and free press in the world and the administration was not about to stifle press freedom or deny anyone he or her constitutionally guaranteed rights. We have Chief Lecturer of the Nigeria Institute of Journalism, Jaleigh Johnson joining us on this particular conversation. Good morning to you, Jaleigh Johnson. Thanks for joining us on this. Good morning, Johnson. Good morning to you, Jim. Good morning with Messian. Yeah, good morning. I'll be right over the wall. Yeah, good morning to you. Also now, this President, not the President Sirada, the particular administration is saying Nigeria has one of the freest press in them. The President has been very, very generous when it comes to press freedom, this dispensation. Do you agree with the position of the Minister of Information and Culture, Lai Mohammed? Well, that's his own assessment. And I want to expect someone that will do an exam that will set the question. Mark, answer the question and mark the script and greet himself. So what would it do? So the Minister is also bringing the agamal is that it's a safer prison, serve adulation and serve execution. So that's his own assessment. But overall, that's not the true reflection of what has been the relationship between the media and the authority. There has not always been easy with the media and the authority, not limited to this administration or limited to Africa. There's always been a struggle. There's an attempt by those in government to control the media. And there is the media that attempt to ensure that the people right to know it's it's it's also essentially, you know, we have what is called official government secret, government who only wants to put a lot of their actions in secret. Whereas the media will always want to throw light to what government is doing. So it's an ongoing battle. But with respect to this particular administration, it has been a pattern mouse game. There have been various attempts by the present administration to spy full press freedom. The attempts to to come up with the social media being mysterious and the working of the NBC code and attempt to come up with the each speech, each became law. These are various attempts by this present administration to spy full press freedom in our country. So how would you access, you know, the embassy? Of course, we know that the embassy was established to regulate the activities of media houses. And so how far would you say they have fed in terms of, you know, freedom of the press? Of course, we should have freedom of the press with that particular. Unfortunately, the NBC became highly partisan. Under Modigo's cows, you know, under Modigo's cows, you know, NBC became highly and it was it was it was unfortunate in the first instance that Modigo Cow, who was supposed to be Larry Cow, who that was BBC correspondent for many, many years in Nigeria, was a journalist. And that I am an opportunity to work and he has worked with a foreign media organization to work in NBC. Odonda is, you know, NBC came up with different measures, stringent measures, draconian measures, to spy full, spy full broadcast organization in Nigeria. And I ask myself, because what's the essence of NBC? What's the role of government in NBC? The friend of mine, the former chairman of Lagos Energy, it is the basis on regulation of broadcasting in West Africa. I did a comparative analysis of the NBC in Ghana and the NBC in Nigeria. Hello, GD Johnson, are you still there? All right, we'll try and reconnect GD Johnson in a moment. You know, like Mohammed, that's the means of information and culture. Mercy said quite a lot yesterday. Let me just read some of the things he said. Hello. OK, we have JJ back. We lost you for just one moment there. So you are trying to connect NBC in Nigeria and the NBC in Ghana. Please go ahead with your comparison. So the NBC in Ghana is controlled by stakeholders. The membership are nominated by the stakeholder. It is patterned after the BBC trusts. The management are operating the BBC. You are lost in Nigeria. You are political appointees. And if you are not careful, you bring somebody to the studio and the president gives an expression to his opinion and his view, the NBC will slam you with a fine. Where is that done? I don't seem to understand, to understand it. But if the way and manner this president administration was in a grand NBC and free speech, if that is the way and manner it was done on the genital, because of the people in government today will be in prison, that's the truth. So GD Johnson, so why can't we move to the place where the NBC or Press Council, all of them could actually be free from government interference? From the world goal itself, don't you think the formation in itself is 40? Why should it be a thing of the government, really? That's the best level. And that's what is really good of those of us that are stakeholders and practitioners of the media industry. You see, it's the best control for the media itself, revolution, and not government and state. Now, when you have the regulatory body being managed, being controlled by the stakeholder, and the real stakeholder needs to do the membership of this body, I can assure you that professionalism will be the other of the big, not partisanship, not propaganda or politics, the selfless interest of those that are in power. So that's what is good of the media we should be looking into. And that's good of the government. The government has no business, for example, in NBC. But I should go back, I'm absolutely, government has its own mouth, it is empty. Government is a controlling thing. Government is a controlling, a vast thing. But he needs the practice. But Jida Johnson, let's even look at that exactly. Don't you think that it's already faulty? We understand the fact that prior to this time, government had a monopoly. And once upon a time, it was government-owned media houses, like the television house, like you have mentioned. And including the radio, up until the time where you had Babangida with his liberation policy in 1992, and of course, independent license had to be given. But of course, moving forward, you have the NBC also coming through. What difference does he make? Like we already know, it's like you cannot be a judge in your own case. And so the fact that the license was given for independent media houses, and then you still have government controlling it, what result do you get? How do you even achieve press freedom? It's a classic piece of my local darling that it gives someone a RAM, and it did not release it. It did not use the rope. So you have not given a press management. You still have, and roll over the RAM, the regulation of 1991 was led to the establishment of the US private radio and TV station and fraudulent and other good companies. It brought about a change. Now, it liberated the broadcast spectrum. I can assure you that that singular fact has made it virtually, it not nearly impossible for us to have new things and turn it to a quality. You know, in the past, how you don't want to do is just for you to see FRCA, and then automatically have your fingers done with it. Because with that, how many radio stations do you need to see? And then you have given opportunities to a lot of people to hear their views, to hear their opinion, to have given voice to the voiceless. So the space has been democratic. And that's the goal of the regulation. But having government control in the practice is not good for the development of our society. You know what is good for the development of the press? Because the press is critical to national development. The press is critical to the establishment of democratic value. Now, the press, even the 1999 constitution as amended understood what should be the rule of the press, made an exclusive provision for the rule of the press. That's what 22 of the 1999 constitution as amended. The press need a watchdog and a whole government accounting. How could a body that the whole government accounting be be held accountable by the people that is meant to hold accounting? It's a contradiction. Because the press should be the candidate of government country because the press is the watchdog and it should be the body. That should hold them accountable. That's what the constitution is. And I think that media organization needs to go through first and challenge the exclusive right of NBC to have control of them through the respect to the world spectrum. 22 of the 1999 constitution made exclusive provision. However, there is also a provision in the constitution that exists. The constitution took away some of the responsibility that the constitution has given to the media. That's a contradiction. This is 22. And that is the problem with the 1999 constitution. It's a text of many contradictions. But however, the major way we deal with democratic space, we deal with our society, we deal with it. It's for us to approach the problem. Let the court determine. So I'm calling on the Nigerian leaders, the young generation, the Tau, all of the Nigerian protest organization, for them to come together and challenge government with respect to the news, attended by not this government you know, but by the government here, to start full press to them. Because without press to them, they can't be democratic society. All right, Gideh Johnson. The minister seems to believe that some Nigerians misconstrued their attempts to regulate social media, trying to hamper maybe the independence of the media in the country. That's one of the issues. But in your opinion, would you say this has gone beyond just the regulation of social media in Nigeria? Yes. It trace the historical development of the media. They are really giving the talent to be imagines of the media. When Nisipa emerged, it was a threat to the monarchy. It was a threat to the elite. Because the elite had monopoly over the silicon of knowledge, the iron of knowledge, and the Nisipa too. Same with magazine, same with radio, same with TV. That's not says when TV came. It was said that TV cannot be left in the hands of private operator. That's why it started as a model of public broadcasting. So it is not in the media where Nisipa, new media has been developed, is powered by technological illumination. And which gives more power to the people. What has the media done? What has to be done with that? They have given everybody to do both the creator, producer, and consumer of media tech. So anybody can do. So the power of the sector is not limited to the end of very, very few media organizations. But few elite can afford to establish media organizations. So that itself is a threat to those in control who want to control the people. So it is not in the news. One of the challenges in Nisipa had there, you know, we call it the journalism. We say about gossip and the rest of it. So what's the difference between one thing you have and the rest of the media now? OK, so let's look at it now. I mean, with a lot of emphasis, how would you describe the press under this administration? Do you think that press freedom, because few more days of this government will be out of place led by President Mohammed the Buhari? So how would you describe press freedom under this administration? Do you think it's been fair or? When someone, when the minister of the Commission comes out to read the value, to do an assessment of the administration, squad would respect the press freedom. You know what it's all about? So it's an education that something is wrong. If you have to score this administration with respect to press freedom, I think you will get between 35 to 40. That's the score mark they will get. It's not good, it's not fair. It's just, it's not fair. Because the membership has to be packed. God and mouse will listen. If not for public opinion, I can assure you that it will have been worse than what you are witnessing now. So the minister is just going to be done with your speech. So what more can the media do in this instance in as much as government is denying that there are threats to the media and that we know all of the issues? What more can we begin to do to actually make sure that our work, our report, our reportage, our comment and our analysis, you know, are actually pushed to the fore so that we can actually play our role as the fourth estimate of the rem. What more can the media do? The media can do much more than what they are doing and you know the media is right. Justin, you and I know the media organization is going to threat the environment. It's not conducive. Don't forget that the media is not going to exist as a model. But how much do you take to run the media organization to power your station with these things and the rest of it? For people to enjoy, you have to make use of it. As some have said that they have an allocation for the first year of government, second year of government, fourth year of government. The third year of government. The fourth year of government, people in the media, which is the watchdog, there's no provisions, but there's no budget allocation. So they are striving to survive. The media has done much, much, and you guys don't believe in view of the prevailing circumstances. In view of the prevailing circumstances. So we just, just imagine if the media organization will not get, and there are viewers that tend to fight with them, with the draconian community perspective, their economic impact and their economic mood. Because the visual issue, the newsprint distribution and circulation of newsprint and the rest of it. So Justin, are you willing to look, do that with the investment in the media organization? The media system is obviously, because they are really here to decide to move on. Because without the media, the tide is not even that we are going to be able to decide. Before Rio, and the merchant point of view, how can we decide? All right, Gide, the minister also seems to think that John List, or the media generally, have been unethical in the sense that they have been playing more of the opposition of government. Do you really agree? That the media has been unethical. That would have been unethical. He was asking if it's ethical for the media, or John List to be, or to play opposition to the government. Well, the media is not going to be in support of government, or to be in opposition of the government. The media is responsible as the most job. Tell government what they are doing right. Tell them what they are doing wrong. That's the role of the media. The media is an independent body. That has the role of maintaining order in the society. All that order is in opposition to what government is doing. Either order is in opposition to what government is doing. So be it. So the media has no friend, has no food. The media is the watchdog. And the watchdog will call you out when you do good, when you do bad. That has the role of the media. So it puts differently now. Unfortunately, it's going in authority. Yes. Because you do a lot of things, people. And they want a lot of what they do to being in public domain. They are usually seeing the media ask their people. They rise to know. The media always want to make people what government is doing. Government is going to continue what they are doing. But they are always going to put the people in terms of the role and responsibility. And a lot of that, not for the channel, the media is in opposition to what government is doing. Not government is doing what they are doing. But what government is doing to the interest of the media? All right, because I was going to ask that. But you just clarified that. OK, so but quickly, let's share your thoughts on this. The fact that the Nigerian press freedom has recorded very horrible case of killings of journalists. I'm in coupled also with the Twitter ban. It's something that you have mentioned because of all of this. I mean, it's OK for all of the restrictions and harassment. But we have witnessed it. I mean, it started from not really started from because there will be several cases, an incident where you have journalists being killed. But at the time, you had one of us killed in Ibadan. I mean, if you look at the scenario, he was shot outside his company. Those who accompanied him were not hot. He was the only one that was killed. Shortly afterwards, you had the Twitter ban. Up until you had some restrictions and international intervention. But what do you make of all of this that we have moved beyond just the regular to the fact that journalists are being killed on almost a daily basis? Well, you know that, you know, you are the other person. And then I come to you just to do what you have to do. You have to do what you have to do. I mean, if you want to get the right decision, I just want to do it. And then I would be at an industry. When I talk about the industry, what measures are visible to protect? I mean, but it's not sufficient. You have insurance scheme. And you have the clear part to do. You have things that can be clear. And you know, if I like to do that, every day we go out. We go out in the work room. We go out in the work room. Because they are bad on our ideas. But the problem is that we have to strike between the ruling party and the opposition party. So often they are not. We are acting by the opposition party and supporting the government. And the government actually is not originalists but supporting the opposition. So we are in between conflict between the U.C. and the devil. So as a result of that, we are speaking on the basis of what I thought was wrong. But as an institution, as a body, conflict and conventional industry, what are the measures that we should include for our amendment? We can't do that to the government. We need to look involved and address this issue. It has the work style, how we are going to deal with that life, what's the perfect way to do it? What insurance thing do we have for them? Because they have this issue, it's this. We're not demarcating, I guess. It's about the generalists who are paid in front. They are written to you. The generalists lost their life. The foxes, the potter lost his life in the field. Covering the walls. These are challenging times for generalists. The work measures we have include to address this. All right, thank you so much, GD Johnson, for being part of the show this morning. We appreciate your time and your thoughts this morning. It's a pleasure to be with you guys. I'm Justin. Thank you so much, GD. Good morning to all of you and to every wonderful team. Me too. Thank you so much, GD. Just as we look forward to a country where press freedom is guaranteed, we will continue to do our bid every day as we grow the process. All right, that's it for Off the Press. We'll take a break now. We'll return when we have time for us to head straight to a second conversation, because before we call it a wrap, stay with us. We'll be right back.