 And we are live. I'm here with Mark Walsh, really excited. We're going to talk about purpose. It's a topic that I actually really enjoy talking about. I just don't get to talk about it often enough. And I'm really glad Mark is doing a summit about purpose called the Purpose Black Belt, which is really cool. And he invited me to be on a panel discussion. And I just, I wanted to, you know, I'm grateful that he said, oh, why don't we schedule a call anyway? We'll just, you and I talk about purpose. So excited. Mark, welcome. For those who don't know you, and we just say a bit, Mark is the founder of Embodiment Unlimited. Now it's called, right? And the creator of the Embodiment Conference, which is one of the largest online conferences in history, I'm sure with the last half a million, you know, participants and over 1000 speakers. I was one of them grateful to be part of that. Anyway, now Mark is just launching some really cool programs. The previous one he just launched was called ethical marketing. And this coming wine is called Purpose Black Belt. Fun stuff. Mark, let's, let's chat. Let's talk about purpose. It's a pleasure, man. It's a pleasure. Like, today's my day off. I'd messed up and not had a day off of the weekend because this is one of the dangers of purpose. You just want to work all the time. I was like, I need a day off. And Tuesday was the only possibility, but this was the one thing I said, don't cancel that. I want to talk to George. It's always fun talking to George. So yeah, I'm in Tulum, Mexico. It's a tropical rain happening outside. And I've been at the gym and the dentist today. I've been healthy, happy, good to chat, definitely on purpose myself. Yeah, you know, I saw an Instagram post you made today. Is it okay if I'd mention it? I'd mention whatever it's out there. It's too late. It's a good post. You wrote that, you know, I think one thing, I'm just going to, I'm just going to shift my screen if that's okay, because, you know, might as well bring some, some stuff on, on screen here. You wrote that I think one thing that's been hugely underestimated in the various lockdowns is that many who do contribute to the world through their work are feeling lacking. And this is almost worse than death is that's why there's so much ill health and suicide to people after redundancy or retirement as meaning is not a nice to have it's essential. And it shows both the importance of purpose and the dangers of, of having just one way of fulfilling it. This of course needs to be balanced with other health issues but the real, the real meaning issues of not allowing many to work does need to be considered. I love that. Yeah. And my response to that was, you know, like, once you have basic food, you have safety, like you're not afraid of like dying any moment. And which I know is actually a real issue these days but basic health safety health, you know, shelter. Beyond that, it's like you need to feel appreciated, you need to feel of use to society. If you think about it, what is one way that combines all of it combines feeling appreciated and useful and able to pay the bills purposeful work. Right. It's like, that's why it's so important for us to figure this out but but can you know I know it's made a big difference in your life, finding purpose. How did it happen. I was always kind of a purpose fundamentalists, like, at heart, like I, what do you mean by that. Yeah, so when I was a kid, I looked around at people doing jobs they hated, and I saw that it made them unhappy and unwell and in many so bad things I just went fuck that I'm not doing that. Like it was really obvious to me as a kid, maybe it was because I had confrontations with death that most kids don't, you know, my cousin who I was raised with as a brother killed himself because he regarded his life as meaningless. And he was my hero. He was like my older brother. And I, I remember resting piece Jason throughout there, listening to the podcast in the sky. And I remember thinking, wow, it's really important that your life means something. Because people will literally kill themselves if it doesn't. Of course. And it was intolerable to me to do stuff that wasn't meaningful. Maybe it's part of my ADHD or whatever but at school I found it very hard to work that wasn't meaningful even at school. People said yeah but then you'll get to A levels which is like high school and then you'll get to university. And the hoops never really meant anything to me because I realized that was my life. And the hoops never end actually. And the hoops never end because as soon as they get to university, it's like, oh, but you could do an MA, you know, and I went by the top of the university, I was just like, this is a joke, you know, this is a trick. This is a, this is a racket. And I, you know, the hoops keep going, right? And there's some great comedy that over the years on this, you know, and then it's your mortgage, then it's your retirement and then you retire and you're all of a sudden you're too old to do anything and you know, you're 80 years old and you've got pancreatic cancer. And, you know, now you've got, you can live, which doesn't make sense to me. I always demanded to live immediately. So I always just didn't really have much choice. I always pursued what was meaningful to me. And originally that was Aikido. And, you know, first time I walked into my Aikido dojo at university I was, it just resonated like my whole system lit up. I was like, okay, this is where I should be. You know, and later on there was, there was another moment where I realized it wasn't quite the martial art, it was what was within the martial art. So it was like a refinement, which is often hell. So I was walking across what's called the Green Line in Cyprus, which splits North and South Cyprus. And I was part of a peace project using Aikido, which for me was the coolest thing ever. And there's Israelis and Palestinians and Iraq, Iraqis and Americans and Serbs and you know, there was Greeks and Turks. And I'd kind of volunteered to help this project and they said, okay, Mark, you know your way around, take the group across the border. And it was on my job to get everyone across this border, which was quite, you know, it was tense. It wasn't necessarily a certain thing. And if you imagine sort of old buildings that haven't been touched for us since 30 years ago and I've got rocket holes in them and you know I'm walking through this area and I just had this moment of like this is exactly what I should be doing, where I should be with these people. And interestingly, two weeks later I'd lost that thread, as it were, and I was, you know, back to drinking alcoholically in just this awful situation in a house that's covered in dog shit. And the contrast between the two, the meaningful and the not meaningful was so huge, I just went I cannot let that happen again. I followed that thread, the red thread of meaning through peace projects and war zones and through starting a business and the conference to what I do now. And to me now it's like a tangible physical thing if you're even slightly off it, I don't sleep well I don't eat well I don't feel good if I'm even slightly off it. And we all get drawn off it because we have ego, we have an ego, and we have temptation to use a very old Christian sort of terminology you know Jesus in the desert you get tempted with money and power and sex. And that can take us off it and because we're human we do that or we just sort of get a bit lost or life gets a bit hard so you know like in COVID a lot of people go into a trauma response and start playing it safe. And when you're playing it safe what you're really what you're which is a, you know, let's just focus on the like you said the hierarchy needs a survival needs. Actually that ends in disaster. So, a bit of a long rant there George, but this is my story. Amazing. I didn't I didn't know about most of it. So it's really cool for me to hear it. It's kind of give me the chills. How similar we were as kids because I also, I was constantly questioning through school, like why why the heck are we learning this math concept like, when am I going to use this right. I mean anything, anything after basic algebra was like, why trigonometry why what's the point because university. Well, university now what am I going to study in university. Oh, you got to study so you go to law school. Okay, let's go law schools and no one you can make money. Right, right that pay what make money to do what pay off the law school loans. That's right doesn't make sense. All in that's the comedian who did a piece on this. It was fantastic. Yeah. I mean, but you're actually right it's like well said the temptations in the desert like so why do so many people go decade after decade, not living not pursuing their purpose is because they want to look like a family well now they have a family support. Actually a lot of people get stuck right because now they're like why I can't. I can't just do my thing. I was challenged people on that one I'm like is the example you want to give to your kids. Not doing what you love. Do you want to drag your half corpse meaningless fucking shell of an existence back home to your children ever do you want to make your kids the excuse that you didn't do what you love. You wouldn't understand you know have kids and it's like yeah but I've got other things we all have other things. Yeah, yeah. So yeah that's a big excuse. And I've been coaching people for years on this purpose black belt originally was a live course and then and we did it I think five years ago and then the second time and then I took a bit of time off for the first embodiment conference. And then people just kept eating my when's the next one when's the next one you're doing it again and I was like well life courses are really hard for me to like with the chaos and travel so we made into an evergreen course was also makes it cheaper. I mean it's better for our business it's better for other people so we made it evergreen this time but I've been coaching people for ages on this. So I've heard all the excuses and I've heard all the you know the really good reasons you know when people are in trauma responses and they find it hard to feel into it when people are disembodied so they lose that body radar but I've been very lucky to have through this body practice when they don't have people around them who are meaningful like my peers are people like you George like people like you are people who I hang out with, it would be weird. And let's say we're sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco. If you're on purpose and I'm not. It just feels weird. It's like you know they're doing what they love and they're doing what is meaningful to them. Yeah, what you're good at what you love what contributes. Yeah yeah let's let's let's kind of start getting to that but I want to I want to invite everyone who is watching the video you have me ability to comment below and I really would be interested to know who is watching this and have you had that kind of experience of I can't live a life without purpose like what's your story like I'm really curious like Mark told his story. My story is that I grew up, like I said I was questioning through school but really just even looking around. I guess my meal part of it is my dad started his own business. So I grew up with an entrepreneurial dad I think that was part of it. Right, it's like it's very helpful like oh well, of course you can, you know, pave your own way or go your own way instead of for somebody else so I think. Yeah, early on that was with him and plus we immigrated. When I was six years old we immigrated to another country to United States. So that also it's like immigrant club you know from an Irish immigrant family immigrants do better man mess with all there is to it. Yeah, because it shows you that some you know something big changes possible when your family moved to hold another country. Yeah, right. That is why I think there's so many good businesses that come out immigrant populations. Yeah, it's like you have to make it in a foreign environment that is sometimes hostile, you know, towards you. Well, so anyway, please comment below I love to know those of you are watching this what is your story of how you know why why what what's your big why like why why why does it. So I want to ask you mark how did you then. How do you. I know you're going to go into this and we're going to talk about this in the summit. The course itself has, by the way, can I just, since this is authentic I'm actually authentically excited about the course. So I, before I we go into more I just want to show people real quick what you put together, just for like two minutes. No, I know I can't. No, no, I haven't all my team did this. They actually emailed me and said, George, can you can you give me your feedback on the sales page. So I read this today. And I make this is really cool like you got this know yourself off the press I mean I gave them the content but they put it the web guys and they put it together. This is the first look actually. And it's going to be even better it's going to you know it's it's kind of talk about those belts because this might be interesting. The white belt which I don't really do is like I'm completely lost I have no idea what I'm doing my life. Okay, that we can call that stage one if people want to put it in the Facebook chat. Stage two is like okay I kind of getting to know myself I've done some personal growth but I want to fine tune my purpose. Yeah, and there's a sort of caveat here in the in the modern in the situation we find ourselves in with people have either had their practical situations rearranged by COVID. Which is a gigantic existential death meditation so that's fantastic for purpose, or they've had their like existential kind of doubt they've had sort of you know they've had time you know they've had a change of circumstances giving them a chance to reflect. So that's sort of orange yellow slash orange bell. That's the sort of like people that want to deepen or clarify purpose or who have lost it a bit and they want to come back to it maybe because of external circumstances maybe because of internal circumstances. The orange belt is kind of like you know what your purpose is you're just not doing it. Because a lot of people say well I know I want to be a younger teacher or whatever and you know but why aren't you doing it. Right. And then the brown belt is kind of like being around people learning the marketing skills kind of you know practical stuff being inspired by people and then they also black belt is doing it. You know black belt doesn't mean you're an expert black just means you're getting on with it and obviously my Ikea background was a little bit inspired by this. Yeah, no kidding. It's so cool. And I want to show people just like you know there's a lot, there's a lot to this. I just really liked the outline as I was reading through it. I just want to at least show it on the screen so that people people can see it you want to pause you can and just see what's what's here. I love it I mean you you include everything from, you know, questions to how it's exercise is awesome. You know the acceptance of death that's a big one for for me actually that's something I want to I'll talk about briefly. But how do I fuck yourself. I love I love that. The washes. Not everyone's cup of tea but yeah as we know for about me shing you know you can't please everyone. How to discipline. Okay this is a really good one can we just touch on this for a second because because there's a, maybe it's a misconception or it just hasn't been thought through like a lot of things. Okay if you're if you're living a life of purpose you just do whatever you want. It's kind of like the sense of like, like, well actually no this is a real question for you mark like that. I mean, that you have this inner guidance to do, like you know exactly what you're doing with your day and if you don't know what you're doing with there you should just wait until you know what you're doing with your day. Okay, so so, so this is like, like a silly hippies version of Taoism right like I know like me yeah Taoism Taoism sort of one of the perspectives that is useful for purpose so the three main perspectives that are implicit in most purpose worker. They find the flow find what's harmonious with the universe. There's a sort of Christian perspective which most of the American teachers have which is like, you know God has a special chosen mission just for you and even if they're not religious that's in there. And there's truth to that you know the blues brothers theory, you know run a mission from God. And is that can be a kind of useful perspective but it isn't always and the way the Taoist ones not useful if my pronunciation shit George please tell me. No, it's perfect. Yeah, it's fine. The Taoist perspective is useful in that you find what's useful but it's also a trap in that that's not an excuse to just do what you feel like because actually what you feel like is the sum of your habits, most of the time. Unless you're like deeply tuned into embodiment. What you feel like doing is eating chocolate and going and having a nap. Right which is pleasurable. I mean I like that I'm not saying you should never do that you know I'm a big fan of those things, but it's but it's also maybe not always helpful. So, when people talk about discipline, I think there's a few things. So one, there's always things that are uncomfortable to do when following purpose and getting comfortable with discomfort martial arts are great for that breath work is great for that. You know, talking to attractive people, you know, randomly is great for that is lots of ways to get comfortable with discomfort but that's necessary and that's a skill that you can get better at the second piece is discipline is really just remembering what you love. So, so discipline isn't like hitting yourself with a stick discipline is is about reorienting to purpose. Like, I'm super undisciplined and no one believes me when they say that when I say that, but I'm incredibly oriented to purpose so I don't need discipline. Like, like, I'm bad at discipline I'm super ADHD. Right so discipline does not come naturally to me. However, because I'm searching into purpose I don't need discipline I don't have to, when my alarm clock doesn't goes off I want to get out of bed. So that's the sort of deeper take on discipline I would say, and then sometimes yeah it's just about getting the fuck on with it and maybe hitting yourself with a stick briefly. Not too often not too much. But it's it's this idea that finding purpose means you just get to like land around do exactly what you feel like I'd say the opposite purpose is a harsh mistress. Like, if you look at artists who really follow their views. I mean that's brutal. Like, like the bigger problem is purpose will kill you. You know you look at Muhammad Ali, you know, and, you know, his his kind of brain injuries or you know, nice Parkinson's but very likely influence miss boxing right. You look at many great people and they've been killed by their purpose they've been burnt up and because the news doesn't give a fuck about me. It's actually self preservation once you're tuned into purpose is more the game. Like that's the other side of it if you want sustainability and longevity and purpose is very interesting. I mean the conference almost killed me. Yeah, literally my resting pulse was 115 Wow. Wow, I went to my doctor and my doctor says you need to rest now. So, this is fascinating because you've just basically turned the word discipline around what it's usually about. Alright, get up, go do stuff, go do the right things go do you know follow a schedule whatever, and you're saying when you're tuned in first of all step one, get tuned into purpose My discipline is having a day off. Right. Discipline. It's actually once you're really tuned in and on fire with purpose that discipline is actually creating a structure that allows you so for sustainably to actually activate and express your purpose in a way that it can be years or decades and not months burnout, you know, get sick of it and go go to a job where someone else provides the structure for you. You can live someone else's purpose. You know, our culture really emphasizes striving and this is where the sort of Taoist truth comes in right that to you know there's a way in which purpose is more like listening than shouting. Right, it's a way in which it is more about tuning in is more about the flow as it were the deep listening. You know, so that's the Taoist truth but then we have to be careful of the sort of mystery that near enemies they call them in Buddhism, you know, that's the new HIV version of Taoism. Yeah, so so I mean, you know, one thing I'll introduce to this and you probably talk about this in the course and I'm sure the summit will have lots of very interesting conversation about about this stuff that like, like we've been talking about okay the day to day, like what is what am I supposed to do today, but I like to look at purpose. I mean just stepping back a little bit looking at the bigger picture. I had a I had a mentor. This is 15 or 16 years ago, who he's passed now, and probably listening to us here, who said, you know, he was from the more the kind of Christian background and he used the word calling right for purpose calling. And he said, you know, George, he was telling me this at 80 some years old he said you know what I've learned about calling is that you don't really understand it. Until you look back and connect the dots and realize, wow, that was my that was my calling and of course that therefore can inform what your next steps are. But it's like, sometimes we don't do that enough. It's like looking back and go, Oh, this is what life has brought me here like, well, yeah, it's like what what have been, you know, people can look at what their innate strengths are what their upbringing is like your upbringing is not random. And even the trauma right that happened to us is not it can be made meaningful. When we say, how can we use that to grow ourselves and to benefit others like what is that is there a through line that together. Yeah, yeah, I mean, we can't make life free from suffering unless we're enlightened, right. So what we can do is make that suffering worthwhile. And that can be done during our life but it can also be done after the event. And, you know, one interesting purpose question is, you know, was everything in my life the good and the bad, if it was all a conspiracy to get me someplace where would that place be. It was all a conspiracy to give me a set of skills. I like conspiracy rather than God's plan but you can do God's plan if you wanted, you know, where it all a conspiracy to give me a certain set of skills. Like for example I used to write a lot of haiku and poetry right. And at the time, people used to say you're wasting your time, you know what's the point in there. And other than the fact that it's great to give the girlfriends, it really wasn't much point but it's really helped me as a copywriter. Now, especially haiku because you have to be very precise and sure, you know, so you don't know where things are going. So that's an interesting question. The third perspective so we've got the Taoist, the Christian which is, you know, God has special plans for you which can be helpful can give you a sense of belief and, and you know that that externalizing can be helpful. And that's actually what I call the European existential perspective, which is just to choose. So, so we've got listening to the flow of the universe we've got the sort of special plans for you but we've also got sometimes it's like marriage, like, that is my wife, the most beautiful woman in the world. Yes, of course she's, you know, it did God make it just for me and me for her, of course, but also it was just a choice. Right, but there is a way in which you can just pick a vocation and just get the fuck on with it. And then we know this about marketing about niching, or about just getting really, really good at something. Yes, pick one thing. Now you have to have a talent for that thing you have to enjoy that thing. Yes, great. It's the sort of arranged marriage slightly, but it's not random marriage, but like you can just choose and I chose embodiment. Now there's other things I could have chosen but that was, that was a, that was a choice. And I think once you some some people need that perspective rather than the perspective of deep listening and go with the flow, which is other people are too willful, they need that perspective. In the end, I really appreciate that you're bringing in these perspectives because or another way looking at these are tools. These are tools you can use like at this time in your life. What would be more helpful. Do you have you been hustling so much have you been just running and running now you need to actually listen right. And have you been getting a calling but ignoring it right sometimes that's true like there's there's been something and you just kept ignoring it. You could say that's God's plan or your higher self, or your soul, or whatever you want to say like have you been ignoring it maybe you need to just follow it, or, and maybe sometimes there's signs right like, and what you just said here's or maybe at this time, you have several good options. You need to choose and become really good at that option, knowing that you're going to learn a lot about yourself as you work, right, as you as you take the path. There's no perfect wife, or husband or have you, or career dolphin. Yeah, there's no perfect career right so it's like of course these things, you know, you make that choice to commit and to marry and it's in that, in that reducing of options to see this true freedom. And I think that's difficult for our society to understand these days we want to do everything, you know. So I think purpose is like that, as you say for some people it's just the blocks and barriers. You know there's just getting out of their own head thrown in a critic, you know my student Erica does stuff for women who are too nice and you know she sees the sort of gendered aspect to it and the sort of you know how women are encouraged to be nice and Erica really. Yeah, yeah, she's great. She's great I know she's studied with you and she studied with me and now she's a colleague. She'll be joining me I think on some of the purpose day. So you know she's taking that angle and actually we've deliberately got two days one of them is like the Mark Walsh show right because you know it's my company fuck you. And also I'm good at this. Right. But the second day is all like, like my friends who are great at this like some of the best purpose coaches in the world because so honestly, like my style is not for everyone and my style won't help everyone find purpose. Right, some people need a bit of a kick in the ass and some Welsh humor, whereas other people they were like Jamie Cato my friend Jamie. I want to show on the screen here. I want to show on the screen for those who are lucky enough to be watching or listening to this before February 26, you can actually join the purpose on it for free. So be sure to check it out. I'm going to be part of it as part of a panel and I'm really excited and I'm excited to kind of listen and watch the other things myself. If you're watching this or listening after February, you can still buy essentially by the purpose summit by by joining the purpose black belt course and the purpose on that comes with it. Obviously the purpose black belt course has a lot of amazing content. We just went through a couple of them. I mean, now there's brown belt we haven't even looked at and then black belt, etc. So who else is coming. Let me see who else is going to be. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let me just see Steve's been arranging this, not me. So, okay, so Rod Stryker he's a big deal in yoga Kathleen Booker I feel inspired every time I talk to she's got this like almost like evangelical kind of soulful kind of access to spirituality. Jamie Cato, he X Rockstar, he did the film one giant leap he's met more spiritual teachers than anyone I know, John Williams wrote a book on this called screw work let's play. Alan Stefani is doing stuff around trauma she was a big hit at the conference and everyone's in love with the land. There's Erica Chalky. There's Erica, Mr branch there he does stuff particularly with young black men that's his cooling. Awesome. He's very passionate about that beautiful case study. Dylan newcomer. I work with him sometimes on focus mate so lovely guy. You know Dylan from focus mate. He's I always say he's the world's second best embodiment teacher. Let's go join first let's go join first he's an amazing teacher. Yeah, awesome. Well, Mark, I know to each your day off so I should let you go and actually have a day off. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Hey, are we still here or sleep here. Mark, are you still here. My do we lose connection did I lose connection. Oh, you're back. Okay, cool, cool. You're my bed. Marcus Marcus and to Mexico right now, you know, renting a place so anyway, I just want to say for those of you watching this. If you have enjoyed this conversation if you want to go deeper and talk about purpose, understand the perspectives and apply it to your own to your own life and your own work relationships etc. I hope you join us for the purpose summit if you can, if you can if watching this later, check out the purpose black belt course purpose black belt.com second spell purpose black belt calm. Mark, any parting words of encouragement as we finish this conversation. What to say. So I know a lot of people right now are a bit rundown, maybe, you know, because of lockdown they're not getting that co regulation that community touch that we all need and crave for not everyone but a lot of people are suffering. And I would say that purpose can be an anchor and an energizer when the world is chaotic. Because it's orientating to your true north, and that true north gives you energy gives you kindness gives you calm gives you so much. So I would, I would think of reorienting to purpose whether it's through the summit or reading johns book or you know wherever you want to do as a support during this time. That's the last thing I would just encourage people to, you know, if not through me then through someone else to find that that true north in a support. Yeah. And I think as more of us understand how to discover in body purpose, we can help lots of other people do the same. But the beauty for me about everyone finding their own unique individual purpose is that it means we're less easily brainwashed. It means we're less easily put into agendas of high, or, you know, advertising consumerism, things that are destroying our minds and the planet and everything else because it just is so much more attractive to be orientating to purpose and someone else's agenda. So that. So it's a, you know, for me it also is a world changing thing as well as a life changing. It helps us to be a lot more focused a lot less distracted, a lot less distractible. So, yeah, beautiful. Anyway, lots of lots of benefits. I'm inspired yet again. George love talking with you man I always really you bring out the best to me it's the yin and yang thing I think you bring out the best to me and I love talking with you so anytime you want you want me back I'm happy to. Awesome. Definitely will. I better run. Thanks man. I'm a man. Be well. Bye bye.