 So, welcome. Smile for the grenade. Camera, go bang. I'm Josh Marpet, otherwise known as Quadling and this is Vlad Gostum, otherwise known as Recompiler. We're whack job security guys. We do everything you can imagine and then some. We are literally the people that do everything. Vlad has held every pen testing job in the business and created some of the pen testing jobs in the business. I've done everything in physical security you can imagine and some you probably can't. I'm an ex cop and you know, ex everything is the way it goes. We both work in physical and information security and we have a good time doing it and we love doing things that cross that over. This is our stuff. Not our employers, not our friends, not our families. Don't blame them, please God. Don't call our employers and go, hey, I saw that cool grenade presentation. Won't go over very well at all. This is our stuff. Lawyer time over. Okay, let's talk about cameras. There have been wireless cameras for decades. Some of them wireless in only a very metaphorical sense. Okay, it is wireless. The camera that caught the Kennedy assassination, notice it's getting smaller. Smaller yet, not exactly tiny but it's getting smaller. Okay, this is a camera that fits in a briefcase now. That's not bad. We're getting there. Hey, it's still a wireless camera. It actually still records on to physical media. Anybody have a Mavica here? Well, not now. I mean, did you have one at any time in the past? A few of you did. Okay. Nowadays, it's scary. For 70 bucks from what site? You can get a Wi-Fi or wireless network surveillance pan tilt zoom camera with 10 led IRNOT vision and a microphone. So not only can you spy on your neighbors, you can hear them. Anyway, so these things, they started militarizing surveillance cameras a while ago. This thing makes me sound like I'm hissing like crazy. They started militarizing surveillance cameras a while back. This is one that's currently being used in the sandbox or litter box, depending on what you call it. It's in mind clearing mode right now. That's literally a mind clearing line of explosives. They have this, which is a million round a minute 40 millimeter grenade launcher. No, we didn't bring one. God, you guys are sick. They also make unmanned flying vehicles, which are of course wireless as well. It's kind of tough to have a three mile wire. Okay. And there's all these different kinds. Some of these are armed. Some of these are unarmed. These are all different kinds. And this is a great website if you're interested in how they're looking and watching down on you on your nude sunbathing in the backyard now. Not that anybody would want to watch most of you sunbathing nude. Just saying. And I'm including myself in that, by the way. So they even have cool things. Let's see if this runs. Nope, didn't run. But that's a video of a RC helicopter outfitted with a Glock 19, which fires on command from the, I think it's an Xbox controller. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not a good idea. Okay. Just FYI. They even have unmanned marine vehicles, some of which by the way are armed. So this idea of wireless cameras going in different places is starting to percolate through a lot of different battlefields, if that makes sense. And that's why we did this. Because we decided to see, by the way, that that's why they're armed. I mean, because we all know about this, right? Am I that ugly? That's a bet. And I take bets. Don't do that. Okay. Inspection cameras. They have cameras that will just two feet for an inspection camera. They've been doing this for 20 years. Fiber optic cameras. This is interesting. This will go a thousand feet down a pipe and you can see on the other end of the pipe. That's what they use it for. Could they put it through an air duct in your wall and see at the other end of your air duct? They could. Not that I mean to make you paranoid. You're already paranoid. But it happens. Okay. So they even have throwable ones. That one's about the size of a, you know, like the little mini pizza boxes you get when you have two slices because we all know how pizza comes. And the iRobots, which we were just showing you, the throwable ones, are very hackable. Vlad, we'll tell you about that. Yes. So people actually play Frogger with these on highways. They program the robot to try and avoid cars and cross food 80 in Pennsylvania. Tons of fun to watch. Don't run mine over. So I would actually like to command iRobot. They're very hackable and they release all sorts of information for them, for developers to mess with them. There's also throwable cameras for use by SWAT teams for throwing into buildings for a hostage rescue situations. And of course, to get into the really fun stuff, which is pertinent to our talk, the ballistic cameras. All right. Ballistic cameras are from an Israeli company named Rafia Land Systems. It's called the Firefly Camera System. There's a couple of articles on it. Basically, it's a camera that comes out of a 40-millimeter grenade launcher. It goes 600 meters that way, or, you know, figure direction. And it has fins. Is it the next slide? Yep. It has fins that come out that stabilize it, so the camera's always watching down. And it shows the Marines or the Army or whatever, what's going there in the next 600 meters of their walking or whatever. Is there an IED? Is there a sniper? Is there a whatever? That's a great idea, except at the end of it, it hits the ground and goes boom, ballistic decommissioning. It doesn't explode, but you hit a nice computer from 600 meters up and drop it to the ground. Is it going to work afterwards? Not normally. And by the way, it ain't cheap. We'll talk about that in a bit. But you can't have the Firefly System. That's what the man says. Why? 40-millimeter grenade launcher, destructive device. Very expensive, very, very, very, very, very restricted. Okay? So we decided to do it ourselves. We wanted to make it something that civilians could have that was cheaper. Make it in the do-it-yourself make spirit, okay, and all kudos to make. For search and rescue, airsoft, SWAT teams, just because. We wanted to try. What the heck, right? You never get anywhere unless you try. So we tried. So before we get burned to the system, you want to cover safety. I'm sure all of you have heard somebody say or know somebody who said, hey, y'all, watch this. If your like, if your puke response is low, close your eyes now. That's actually a 37-millimeter launch gone wrong for somebody. So safety. You can buy commercial 37-millimeter and 40-millimeter rounds. You should never ever disassemble them. It is very dangerous. Primers have been known to cook off. Don't attempt to build a system yourself unless you know exactly what you're doing. Email us. We'll be happy to share information with you. We're encouraging people to make their own stuff and to build their own stuff. We have literally years of experience with firearms, reloading, launchers. We just don't do this. Call us, email us, smoke signal, something. Don't do this. I can't say that enough times. Okay, this is what happens. This is what happened to the guy whose hand you saw a minute ago. All right, talk about this. So somebody was actually building fireworks for 4th of July and shooting them off in front of their family. That launcher in the picture is actually a similar launcher to the one you see on the table after an explosion. The guy lost most of his hand, three and a half fingers. We believe that he double charged it. If you double charge it, which means you use too much propellant, you actually inadvertently create a destructive device, a non-registered destructive device, which is highly legal as in jail time and huge fines. Safety. Anytime you fire the launcher, even with flares, you never ever want to have your hand in front of the firing pin or around the actual flare. That tube right there is actually what contains the round. You saw the hand, you don't want to have your hand there. Proper safety equipment, fire retardant clothing, eye and ear protection. It does get very loud. Even a flare can create about 120 decibels, which is enough to damage your hearing. That's the right way. So yes, even when shooting flares, I know I may look retarded or paranoid. That's what you want to be doing. Another right and wrong slide. That's actually the same launcher mounted on AR15. Let me do this. So you got a guy stacked up waiting to go into house, right? Swat team. Hey, what's that around the side? What's going on? I can't see because we're all stacked up and we look like sardines and fishing a barrel and you know what happens to fishing a barrel, right? Okay, cool. Well, what are you going to do? You're going to have this guy shoot one of those, shooting this to put a camera up above everybody to find this one. The dangerous kitten sniper. Well, you probably wouldn't. But what you might find is one of these. And if you find one of these, your guys are in trouble, right? Okay, what do you do? Well, you look at the guy in front of you. The guy in front of you has a receiver, which of course I neglected to actually pull out. But the receiver is this big. This is a DVR. It records, it shows battery powered. This is great velcro to the back of the guy in front of you on the stack. And so the camera, our green flare logo, is sending information to the guys in the stack. And it's also sending information back to the long range receiver on the short range receiver. And it's also sending information on the long range receiver back to the mobile command center. Hook that up to an 80 inch plasma. You can get some detail out of it. You can find your kitten sniper. So it works really well. And we said, wow, this is actually a good idea. So what do we want? This is what we want. Now what features do we want? We want it in 37 millimeters so civilians can own it easily. That's not even a firearm. That's not even a title one firearm. It is a flare launcher. 5.8 gigahertz cameras. Pretty good range. Not a very cluttered spectrum. Not hugely cluttered. The shells are hand loaded at the moment. We wanted a parachute so we could hang. Remember the firefly system, 600 meter arc, right? We wanted to see over one house. So we wanted to go up and hang. All right. About 400 meter range. Urban search and rescue, disaster, SWAT teams, airsoft. He's done ground search and rescue. There's places you can't reach. Now I can. That's pretty cool. Okay. You get the idea. We've seen this. So some capabilities based on millimetre and MATLAB. We are projecting you should be able to hit 400 to 600 meters vertically and about 400 meters horizontally with the system. Keep in mind this is a very low pressure system. Only 25,000 psi. Meaning it's low pressure compared to let's say a howitzer. This is just a graphic of the shell. So why is our system not a destructive device? One of the very important things that makes our system not a destructive device is the fact it's a life safety device. It's not meant to be anti-personnel. We're not shooting this at people. We're not shooting at buildings. We're shooting it straight up to try and find people and try to help people. Also our system has signal capabilities. We're working on an IR beacon. Another very important factor is the amount of charge we're using. We're using less than six grains of powder, which is more than 20 percent below what would make it a destructive device. Here are a few variants of the launchers. Going back to World War II, we have the 26 and a half millimetre variants and the 40 millimetre variants as well as the 12 gauge variants. Recently there's been a lot more that have been developed thanks to the future warrior combat system as well as the six and eight shot variants. And of course the lovely 20 shot system you see. Okay so now we're in the design phase. We know what we want it to do. We know what we want to mimic. What are we how do we build the freaking thing? Okay well we had a lot of trial and error. We're still in the trial and error phase. I just want to warn you. We've got to find cameras. We've got to find recorders. We've got to find field recorder, command center recorder, power source, payload recovery system, launcher shelf. Holy crap we got a lot of stuff to do. We tried it all. We're still in the process of trying it all. There might be better things out there. Okay this is the capabilities we wanted for it. We wanted a 600 meter vertical shot. We'll aim for 600. If we get 300 we're happy. Okay we want to fire over a five-story building for urban search and rescue. 400 meter horizontal range. These are pretty cool things. This is pretty ambitious right? This is what we wanted. We might not get it. Probably won't some of it but we're going to try. This is the killer. Take a look. The firefly system I told you about $2,000 a shot plus a destructive device launcher 200 bucks for the launcher 200 bucks for each shell. Non-military sale yeah that's nice. Our stuff $200 per shell full cost. Non-destructive device, non-destructive launcher. There's a huge DIY community. The launchers let 400 to 700 bucks. Okay so now our challenges. So uh I'm sure you all saw the hand uh first consideration is always safety and followed very very closely behind being legality. None of us want to go to federal prison. Camera arming. Once you stick the battery pack in there the camera goes live. You want to have a decent amount of actual shell fly from the camera. Six months, eight months, however long it takes. Temperature. When the round is actually fired out of the launcher the low pressure chamber gets between 900 and 1100 degrees centigrade. Things tend to melt, crack. G-forces. If you're hitting anywhere between 3 and 9g uh when the system is fired uh things tend to disintegrate including many are doing their controllers. Space. This is the amount of space we have to work with including the lift charge, parachute, safety-widing, camera, battery pack, and of course camera orientation. So it's not fun. Basically try to take everything you want and then squash it down. It ain't easy. So irrespective of the arming which Vlad talked about a minute ago uh there's all sorts of ways to do it. There's all sorts of challenges for this but talk about this for just a second. So uh if you look at the firefly system and it seems like fins are definitely a great way to go. Uh trying to get fins to pop up reliably out of 37 millimeter launch is a challenge we're still working on. Uh we've bent a lot of sheet metal. Uh helicopter recovery, very end conducive for stable video. Basically helicopter recovery is one of the things you get a parachute skewy and it starts going like this which makes it really really tough to get usable video. And of course you aren't even going to mess with uh spin stabilization. Uh basically if you're trying to stabilize either something the size of this film canister or this baby soda bottle uh long enough to capture 480 by 680 uh video. Okay this was another challenge. You get cheap cameras. Where are you going to get them? Where are you going to get them? Really cheap cameras. Where is that? China. Okay call China. That's fun. That's so much fun. I spent a lot of sleepless nights calling China because of the time difference and the language difference. I had a mandarin to English dictionary and Google translate and I still couldn't get past hello. It was a bitch. But we managed. We got cameras. I have cameras right here. This is a full camera system with a 5.8 gigahertz analog wireless system in the camera. That's it. That's pretty cool, isn't it? Okay then wire it. Because you see this connector? The connector for getting the battery or the or the wall wart hooked up to it took up too much space. So I cut the cord because you know it's DC. Two wires right? No four. By the way if you polarize them wrong get the wrong polarity you blow the camera. That's an expensive trial and error. So we had some problems. So okay so we get through this piece by piece by piece. I've actually got emails into the factory for the next round of problems. Testing issues. Safety. Talk to the hand. By the way where do you test grenade launchers? Does anybody here have a grenade launcher testing range? Oh I actually saw a hand go up. Jesus okay. I did not expect that. I swear to God I really didn't. I'm impressed. All right so then there's the shell loading. So this is actually constructing the whole system okay. Vlad is going to talk about the shell loading. You might have noticed I've been handling electronics. Vlad's been handling the things that go bang. So the way we load this is actually very simple and very innovative. We got somebody who does custom CNC machining and does a lot of 37 and 40 millimeter loading. You start out with the base of the shell that fully disassembles and we insert the small pistol primer and then we fill this little area with the actual propellant. In this case about six grains of unique. We then install a burst disk right up there and what that burst disk does is it actually lets the high pressure chamber build up 25,000 psi during ignition. What's a burst disk made of? Pennies. That is actually a penny squished by 20 ton press. I just find that amusing. I don't know why. Once the burst disk pops it will add the gases will actually expel through these holes and drop the pressure down to 25,000 psi to 900 psi. Which is what's actually going to push the the wadding out through the shell. Prevent everything from catching fire and cracking and boost the parachute and the payload out through the rest of the shell. So it worked! No. That picture on the lower left is me and Vlad decked in proper protective gear firing our test shell. You notice the camera is actually sticking out the end of the launcher. That's the problem with space. You see the camera the picture on the lower right that's one of the camera systems in a baby soda bottle. Now this is a baby soda bottle for those who don't know that is a two liter soda bottle before they blow it out in the mold with hot air. Okay they're great. They cost like 50 cents to a dollar depending on how many you get and where you get them. They are vaguely temper evident. Dear god I'm not going to say temper evident here somebody will laugh at me. Because you can put the cap on it has the ring that separates and they're really really waterproof and good. So we cut holes in them and put the cameras in there used tin foil to wad it and then since I had the problems with the connectors my cr123 battery packs were basically fitting in there but not fitting really well so they were longer than we expected. We dealt with it. We managed but failure is always an option. Okay you can always have problems. You can always have issues. You can always have you know details. Trees and buildings jump in the way. I love that. Okay I'm not going to bother showing this video. We actually did get about 150 meter range out of these little tiny cameras with an antenna about an eighth of an inch long. It's pretty amazing. Okay but here's what I'm going to show you. It's about 20 seconds. This is us on a farm in an unnamed location which shall not be named. Basically going crap. Why is it not working? We actually had some issues with primers. Notice the incredibly safe distance I'm standing. Yeah aren't you glad he was wearing his helmet? We actually got about 30 feet. Now one of our problems was literally not us. The sealed powder that we used to hand load the shell with were like why is there powder spilling out of the shell afterwards? It literally didn't burn so we took a lump of it and put it on the ground on a rock and lit a match to it and it's like poke it with a stick. Come on. Didn't work. Powder was bad. So the 30 feet we got is just a primer alone. A small pistol primer pushing the charge out. Which for a tiny little like literally smaller than the tip of a you know small in a pencil eraser isn't bad. Okay when we get the powder to work right we literally did this by the way the Saturday before DEFCON. We started this whole project three months ago just so you know this is version 0.01 you can see it on the right. We do expect to honestly get that far about 400 meters up. Considering a pistol primer got 30 feet it's not bad. Now the only other problem is that by the way this is from the camera and that's about the best video you get. Oh no I'm being loaded. Okay the video feed from the small flight didn't work. We found out these cameras are susceptible to motion. They're designed for surveillance where they're going to be standing mounted or on somebody's person so they're designed to be moved at human speed not bang speed. Minor issue. But what we figure is when they actually get up in the air so we're figuring on deployment we're not going to get any video but once they hang from the parachute they're going to be descending in a much slower rate we should be getting usable video from them. So we're not actually worried about that. Okay so yeah we failed. We blew up battery packs we had primers actually drop out of the shells and and like get caught in the damn launcher that was not fun. It's not working what do we do. We're like oh crap that's an extra part not supposed to be there. I know that happens during most of your assembly required projects but it wasn't something we were happy about. We burned the fireproof parachute or fire resistant parachute. Yeah that wasn't fun we're like oh let's just try it again. We look at the parachute we're like crinkle crinkle crinkle never mind. So basically we failed. We failed our first prototype but we got a lot of information a lot of experience a lot of knowledge we're gonna do better with our next one. So if you want to keep all your fingers ask some questions. Good question. Swat teams and airsoft teams carry 37 millimeter launchers now. We wanted a system that they already owned for cost so they didn't have to buy a new launcher system as they didn't have to retrain on a new system it was like basically modding what you already own is a lot easier than buying new crap because you know is your significant other going to let you buy new stuff? We already know you're on a budget dude. No we actually ran with it which made us look like total idiots and at any human speed you're good okay except when you whip around with arm outstretched because that actually increases the velocity rapidly but what did you say? So yeah when the system actually fires during the boost phase you're not going to be getting good video during the descent phase you're only coming down about 25 feet per second which is more than usable and since the receiver module records everything to SD card you can review it and play it back as slow as you want to. More questions yes? Yes we actually got a note from that from the building manager something about something crawling from the 14th floor. Yeah we got in trouble yeah okay respect but remember that we're talking about systems that they already own we don't want to make them buy a new launcher. Now the one question we did get by the way was that we talked to three or four SWAT teams and they asked us can you duct tape the camera module without a shell to a rope? Yeah of course why because when they do a high angle rescue they want to drop it down with the rope in a waterproof airtight package and see where the rope is going. So we actually have interest in the camera module alone without the shell because it's kind of interesting. Yes dude we're talking about a camera that's so tiny you know you could put it up your nose I mean okay that's going to be version five can I work on version one? So yes I actually started out in high power model rocketry years and years ago the problem is most SWAT team guys don't do high power model rocketry they don't have their equipment there's also failure to ignite and all sorts of engine issues also with high power model rockets you need to call and launch into the FAA you need to actually have valid permits for high power model rocketry versus they only own a 37 millimeter or 40 millimeter launcher they pop the shell in they're good to go. Absolutely no problem we intend on open sourcing the design again in the spirit of the make community we intend on open sourcing the design with the picture of the hand on the front cover those are I believe solid copper pennies but again just under a 20 ton press any any copper it's just they're they're nicely neatly provided and a little disc is great are you a treasure agent? Fed! Yes sir I don't have $2,000 to spend on one of their projectiles so no. One other issue was their system is actually 40 millimeter launcher so they're not constrained by it not being a destructive device they're using significantly more than six grains of powder and if there's incidental ignition I can share the slide with the hand again. We're actually we haven't had any problems with the camera that we shot still worked afterwards no mind you is it a much lower velocity and flight than we wanted but it still worked afterwards just fine. What you're actually thinking about is filling it with epoxy one thing you played with is actually using the glue sticks for the hot glue gun and using a hot air gun to melt it in there once all the packages are. By the way if you want to see this stuff come on up or come to the Q&A room please come on up take a look. What's that? Richard Deem is in the Q&A room. We'll probably stick here because sometimes people they'll still be in there. Do not touch the launcher is the only restriction this stuff feel free to touch.