 Welcome back to the breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. In a follow-up to our conversation yesterday on Ned Woko and the accusations against him of land grabbing and the imprisonment of certain Indians of the Dumuji community, we're once again joined this morning by Mr. Uche Alibi to clarify on some of those accusations. We, of course, initially were meant to be joined also by a spokesman to Ned Woko, a day in the ifetire, but we seem to be having, you know, a change of heart, you know, with that conversation. Mr. Alibi, good morning once again. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. Good morning. All right. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. Good morning to you. We, you know, had a little bit of this conversation yesterday, trying to clarify exactly what was going on in that community. The spokesman to Ned Woko had said yesterday that this had really nothing to do with land grabbing, but it was mostly a power-tossel between Nelson Woko, who is, of course, currently the taking charge as the new OBE, and Prince Ned Woko. So can we get some information from you as to what exactly might be going on? Is there a power-tossel between these two persons, and is that very likely the reason behind, you know, these accusations? No, there is no power-tossel in that community. A problem started even before our natural ruler died, the former one. It started 2016. That is a real problem. But the whole land issue started 2015, and we started complaining, talking about it. The problem started with them, 2016, when they sent the petition to the police, accusing the damn crown prince. Hello? Yes, go ahead. I can hear you. Accusing the damn crown prince of Ferdinand Letta, I mentioned that yesterday. He was then referred to as crown prince all over. Even the man who wrote the petition referred to him as heir apparent. So it wasn't in doubt who he was, because we don't have king makers, our kings are made from birth. And so as soon as a king is born, we know this is the king, and that's it. So it wasn't anything to do with the tossel. They just brought tossel just to complicate issues in the town. Because the existing king, who was enthroned by tradition, and who has been known to be the one to succeed the father, because he said no to land grabbing, they decided to bring some people to come and tossel with him. The first of all brought his junior brother by a different mother. That didn't work. They saw that what they were claiming was just not defensible. They removed that and they brought a totally different person who they are now sponsoring. And they're saying that his great grandfather, great grandfather, would have been king in the town, but he was denied. So he's now coming as the great grandson to begin to tossel for it. I mean, it's so funny. We have a tradition of primal genital. That's our tradition, it's hereditary. First son of the king succeeds the king. So as soon as the king has a first son, we already know that that is the king in future. We don't have king makers. So what I was hearing yesterday that Ned was telling the king that he will support him. What is of no effect in who becomes the king in the place. And indeed this position in the family does not lend the support any single way whether it's coming positive or negative because of his position. So there is no tossel. They are just trying to bring issues to, like I said, divert attention from land issue, which is the central point. That's it. If he says that it's tossel, we get to where he started arresting people and we get to know what it's all about. But that's exactly what I can explain to you. So Mr. League Bay, can you confirm to me if indeed anyone has been put in prison by Ned and Woku over this land grab issue? Prison. I will say prison because that means somebody has been found guilty. People have been incarcerated in custody, police and prison custody. But let me start with the strategy he's been using. Okay. First of all, that starting from below, all the people, the vigilantes and the strong people on ground who are in the village, he is speaking the one by one, accusing them of certain things. Now he's beginning from above. Those who are not living in the town, but who have voice in the town, he's also starting from there. That is where, okay, if a job will come soon, you will have had his here and there about one of the businessmen we have in our town, Dr. Gable Macier and so on. He has them. He is coming from that end, coming also from the lower end, arresting people and trumping up charges against them, which I'm prepared to discuss fully here if I have the time. Yes. So there are many people in incarceration. One is in Sulejah. The people, about 10 people they took to Abuja, they were granted bail under very stringent conditions. We attempted, we tried and we managed to get those ones bailed out. It is from those of them who went again for court appearance. They were coming out, they were arrested again, three of them are in Asaba in incarceration. The ones in Asaba have not even gone to court, they're under the police. And that is what's going on. But Ned himself cannot arrest anyone. So you're saying that he, from what you're saying, right, that you're saying he's working with the Nigerian police, which these are really strong accusations that you are laying out this morning. I would have said it's wrong accusation if I didn't listen to him recently. We would have said maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. But in an interview he granted, I don't know whether it's your station, he's played on air and everybody had it. He was explaining how every single one of them was going to court and coming out. And at some point he said the police now called him and said that the community has written a petition against them. I was wondering whether he is the IG, or whether he is chairman of police service commission, or whether he is minister of internal interior, or whether he's any chairman of any of these committees in the legislative house. He is just none. So how come you are the one the police is calling and telling that the writing petition against him, and you are explaining to the world that that is why they're now going back and arresting people and taking them. You can see that there's a complicity, very, very silent complicity here. They didn't call the natural ruler, they didn't call anybody. It is him they called. How come? What are the accusations against these people that has kept them in incarceration so far? Yes, let me say the thing. Let me start from up. OK, Fejoku, as a person, OK, Fejoku is the president of president's general of all the unions in our Neutral North. That is his personality. He is also the chairman of hoteliers in Delta North. That is the personality. And the third part of it is that he is the president general of our union. And that's why he's president of president's general. He owns a hotel in thriving business, and therefore he's not hungry. He's not looking for anything. And he's related with the town. He's been a president general for over four, five years now. And that is it. Now what is his problem? He has said no to this land grabbing. I said yesterday that nobody is opposed to a project. OK, Fejoku himself said to Ned in a meeting, look, when you start, you know my house in the village. It is decent enough to house even your VC. So you can have it. You can use it while you are developing. That is the man, OK? So what happened? But because he has said no to land grabbing, first of all. And he has said, no matter what you say, Idumu Duboko has a king. We know who our OB is. And it is Obitu Kunansomoko. That is his crime. He has written on this and signed in the name of the union. His secretary signed his name. And the name of the secretary were passed on. And they say they are part of the group of terrorism, thirdly terrorism, where his son is sponsoring it. He is sponsoring violence. And I can tell you that he is doing that. First of all, they have gone for terrorism. They were granted bail on that terrorism. They said they killed one Cyprin that we don't know about. They destroyed house. When he came back to Asaba on bail, the police arraigned him again on the same charge of killing one Cyprin. And this time another Kennedy. They arraigned him together with a traditional ruler and about five other people, including two vigilante men. They caught, dismissed it because the BPP said there was no case in it. So he left and they left him. He went to Abu Dhabi just to attend to the case of terrorism. And while he was coming back, he was arrested with another vibrant young man, Godwin and Yemeka. Both of them brought to Asaba. The Asaba people have no case against them. The Abuja people are saying nothing about them. And we hear that they were arrested for the murder of the same Cyprin that we've been talking about whose judgment they have gone through in a court. He's a new one. What the police did was they now added a word, robbery, to make it look like it's new. And let me tell you, people sent two young men were arrested in 2017. They went through three years of incarceration in prison custody for killing the same Cyprin. 2020, the court declared them free and acquitted. Both of them came out. So this single Cyprin has been killed by very many people and is using it to arrest as many people as possible. As I'm talking like this, I haven't told you people the truth. I have become a sponsor of violence. I have become a sponsor of terrorism from his own calculation. So if you ask of me to come and appear in your program tomorrow and you hear that I've been arrested for it, that is his style. That is what he's been doing. He tried to do it with Dr. Gabriel Obetia, the chief executive of Renoille, very, very big businessman. He found it difficult. He accused him of plotting to kill him. Come and prove it. He said somebody in the prison told him. Now bring the person in the prison. He said he has just died. He turned around and said, maybe it's the same Gabriel that killed him. So he killed a prisoner who has left the prison. He is attempting to kill Ned. All he's doing is just get at these people. But because the man is who he is, he can stand his ground. He can stand him. And so that's why he's coming. Yes. Mr. Ligbe, I need to ask you. OK, I've heard and I've read so many articles saying that Ned Woko, accused Ned Woko of arresting people multiple times for the same alleged offense in different police stations and suing them to different courts for the same offense. So you just confirm that. Well, I want you to give me some sort of a hard evidence that really indicts Ned Woko for all these arrests that you're mentioning. Because we need to have this in good authority. One of the periods when the so-called witnesses for terrorism were going to Abuja, they went to his private jet. One Agili guy, Light, who was arrested while he went to buy police, buy petrol in the petrol station in the town, was flown to Abuja in his jet. All right? These are the two. Apart from the fact that we discussed with the police, we go to any length and they said to us, give this man the land and then you are free. And we said to them, yes, he can get the land, but he must get it through the process. All right? So we are convinced that he's the man behind the scene. Yeah, we didn't have any evidence to say he was. But his latest interview that he granted, I don't know who took it, whether it's you or another station, where he was claiming that the police now called him, the police did this, the police did that. Is he IGP? Mr. Alibbe, you're saying that when people are arrested for so many alleged offenses, in the police station, the police officers tell them to let Nado Woko have the land and they will be free. And that witnesses in the cases... That's the problem they are becoming back with, yes. They are flown in Nado Woko's... You are saying witnesses in those cases are flown in Nado Woko's private jets? Once they were flown in his private jet, one of the victims, one of the accused, was flown in his jet. So what are we talking about? Let's quickly just mention that these are, from your perspective, these are still accusations. We cannot independently verify that these are true, but of course, this is your testimony and these are your statements. But why were the police? Why were the police calling him and arresting Nado Woko and everything going on? Why must he be him that called him? Because he said the police called him. I understand that's what you've said. I just want to clarify that these are your statements. We, of course, initially had a spokesman for Nado Woko, Mr. Adini Svetayev, who pulled out of the interview, surprisingly, just before we started. But we're also going to be joined by a traditional prime minister of the Dumujiye community, Walter Izayashi, hopefully joins us before we wrap up this interview this morning. Mr. Alikbe, what has been the latest on Okii Fejoko's case? Have you been in contact with anyone handling the case in the last few weeks? The courts are down, so the case cannot go to court. So meanwhile, they are still in police custody. They were arrested in Abuja after attending a court case on terrorism, going to the airport. They were cornered by the police, arrested, kept six days in Abuja, and brought to Asaba, and dumped in Asaba. You ask the Asaba people, what do we do? They tell you our hands are not there. We are only custodians of those they brought to us. The issue is in Abuja. So what are their cases? What have they done that the issue should be in Abuja? We are yet to be told because the court is down. Maybe when they get to court, they tell us, okay? We are just hearing rumors here and there, but we don't want to operate on rumors because they become rumors. The people that says who are in incarceration say that one of them told them that they have a court warrant from a Nassarawa State Court. So they have a right to retain them. That's what they hear. Whether it is rumor, whether somebody is just threatening them, whether somebody is ensuring that they don't act, we don't know. But you're asking me what is the situation. I can tell you the hearsay we have. I can tell you what happened that we know. That's the situation. Has there been any impute from the Commissioner of Police in Delta State? All of them say it's an Abuja issue. That's what our lawyers who are helping us say, that they say the issue is an Abuja. They are only for students, to the people they brought here. Full stop. Okay, we're now been joined by Mr. Walter Izayashi, the traditional Prime Minister of Idmije. Good morning, Mr. Izayashi. Good morning, how are you? Fine, thank you. Let's continue with a question I had earlier asked, Mr. Alibi. I said that when we spoke to Nedwuko Spokesman yesterday, he said the university that Nedwuko is building is nearing completion and that they had paid about 200 million Naira to the indigents of the community. So what then happens to the land and the money that was paid? Well, number one, let me first correct an error. I am not the Prime Minister of the community. The Prime Minister is Chief Christopher Ago. I was the President-General of the Idmije Boko Development Union. You see, concerning the land acquisition, land allocation, you see, I don't know why people don't want to let sleeping doble in. The truth of the matter was that Ned applied for land. And while he applied, I was not even in the picture, until we attended a meeting on the 11th of July, 2015. It was at that meeting that the whole thing was my bed. And I watched my elder brother, Uchalbe, yesterday when he talked about the meeting and that everybody supports the university. The truth of the matter is that the problem in Nedwuko Boko is not about support or no support. It's all about envy, jealousy, and why should it be him? Why is he not coming from us? The entire Idmije Boko people are at peace with the university and all that. Ned, Prince Nedwuko, through his company liners, applied for land. And as it is being done, when you write a letter, of course, it's certain that a response, a reply must be given to your letter. You see, there are two ways of applying for land. One, I mean, two processes. If the land is maybe 100 by 100, maybe a plot or less than a plot or two plots, they don't need to go for an Izuani. For instance, Uchalbe, my elder brother at the studio there, was a located land. He didn't go through Izuani. And he still had that development side up to today. He hasn't developed it, and he hasn't started falling. So the problem here is not whether the land was properly allocated or not. The problem here is all about envy and jealousy. How do you mean? So are you saying that the land was properly requested and allocated? Allocated. Now, let me give you a brief detail. For instance, after the application, another in council meeting was called where the Odobu, that's the traditional prime minister, the defense minister, traditional, and the rest members of the Odobu in council were present. And they said the magnitude of the land is much. Therefore, it is a commonwealth of the entire people. Therefore, let us take it to the apex meeting, which is called Izuani. They can hold assembly. And it was taken there. A committee was set up called the Izuani, a large land allocation committee. That committee met. They came up with their minutes. And their minutes are there for people to look at. It was after the minutes and all that the OB, in response to a letter from a corporate body, wrote a letter to Linus through Prince Ned Moko, dated 10th of April, 2015. Now, I have my brother talking about customer right of occupancy, dated 2016, and survey plan dated 2017. I don't know where he got that. Because I know that I am the custodian of all the libraries, of all the documents. And there is nothing like that. And the MOU, he's saying, that was signed in May 31st, was not true. The MOU was signed on the 25th day of August, 2015. So Mr. Iziashi, Mr. Iziashi, if you say that Ned Moko had properly acquired those lands, the 90 hectares, the other about 35 hectares, to build a university and an international golf course. So how then does the accusations of him arresting people because they failed to let the land, lease the land to him? How does the accusation come in that he's been arresting people on that basis? The accuser knows deep down in their heart that is all lies. Ned did not arrest anybody. You see, in 2016, January, Prince Nonsunoko and four others filed a civil suit at the state high court, holding at his cell. That matter is still on, but has been transferred to a high court. It's a civil matter. Any land is a civil matter. And criminal matters cannot be out of sentiment because you want public sentiment. You want to just label somebody. Ned never arrested anybody. What happened about issues of arrest was that in 2017, February, the late Obi died. That's the late King Albert Wadegu. Awkuwadegu no Kodete, they died. And that was on the 6th, early hours of 7th, we had his son as a stall himself. I was fed now. That's not tradition. The tradition, an old man who has no traditional affinity, who has no traditional title, who has no right, cannot install your asking. More importantly, there is an office that installs somebody asking, and that is the office of your near. That's any traditional institution in the entirety of a Neomanation. A Neomanation includes a Neochon, not local government, and Neochon's out in two Oshimilis. Mr. Aziaki, because of time, I want us to quickly get to why those persons have been arrested and why they're still in custody. That's what I'm coming to. Now, the prince, Nonsunoko, felt that people are not supporting him, and that Ned Nwoko was the one behind them. That's why they are not supporting him. But the truth of the matter was that people want equity, people want justice, people want the right thing done. And sometime in May, I heard them say that Ned, some people, talks to go and disrupt meetings. There was nothing like that. Zamanah is still alive. He's an AIG now at the police academy in Kano. He was the police commissioner here. Chukso Semeh is still alive. He was the executive council chairman and the chief secretary of the local government. You know, they went to him and said, you cannot call for a meeting. The security report is not favorable to you. They went to him and said, you should cancel the meeting. You know, and I don't know what happened about that meeting. All I know was that between that 18th and 25th people that Prince Nonsunoko felt were opposed to him, were attacked. In the process of the attack, one person was shot right there at the palace gate on the market day, the community market day. So nobody will say that it was a ruse. No, it's not true. Then one Kennedy, Kennedy Hillow, who was the secretary of a land allocation committee, was brutalized. And thereafter, he fell sick and he never recovered from it. He died thereafter, you know, a few months later. You know, and so the people wrote petitions. First, to the commissioner, police officer, for... Walter Isayashi. Walter Isayashi, we would... I think, first of all, you need to apologize for the time challenge that we're having. We hope that we would also be able to get a response from Uche Alikbe. It's a very, very big issue and there's two sides to this. But we would like to appreciate you for sharing your other side, Uche Alikbe. Thank you also for joining us once again this morning. We, of course, will schedule another time where we can have a bigger conversation with you both, you know, both sides of this story sometime in the future. Thank you both for your time. Good morning once again. We'd love to speak with you again. Thank you. OK, we'll turn our conversation now to the girl child and education right after this break.