 Welcome church family and it's good to see everybody and welcome to our time of interviewing with Pastor David and Marie and it's always a joy to have you guys with us and joining us and being able to Talk and share with the church Things regarding to marriage things regarding to relationships and it's always great to hear from you guys both So welcome. It's good to have you guys with us here today. Good to have a place to be. Yes. Yes Really is You know, I've asked us now three weeks in a row. How are you guys doing? We're doing good. I mean, I don't I don't I'm not enjoying the fact that we can't come to church and see our our body And have services here, but we're doing okay. I'm looking forward to to win this all and and looking forward to Coming to church coming be with the body of Christ It's gonna be one of those glorious things where we get back together and and everybody's excited and and See being with one another, you know, as you mentioned pastor, we've been here Marie you've been here as well. We've come on Sunday mornings. You're here on Sunday mornings to greet people and and It's interesting. It's cool to see the people that are coming in just recently this last week We saw people more people coming and wanting to spend time and chit chat and pray And so that's just a small Sample size of what's really what people really wanted to come back. Yeah, we when we were here this last Sunday People don't know that I haven't been obviously telling people that I've been here on the campus I don't know what difference that really ultimately would make anyway, but it's just nice when they come rolling up and they see us here and Like, you know as as occurred just this last week with several people who stopped and Visited it was nice to visit with them hear their story when one couple was here has been here since 1992 28 years and it's the very first time I ever had an opportunity to even meet them, you know And so for me, I'm amazed that That they've been here that long frankly and that I hadn't encountered them But what a blessing it was to be able to not only in you know Engaging conversation and visit with them, but to pray with them and minister to them. So Yeah, Marie and I are doing doing well. Yeah, she just said and Yes, we both we both miss being able to be with our congregation with our church family an awful lot We miss it a lot and For for us. I think that ultimately It's helped us to value Relationships more than we had in the past. I think you can take for granted the things that have always been there Yes, and when they're removed from you and the way that this has been removed from us it makes you think and Makes you appreciate and I'm assuming that I might be speaking for most most of my church and maybe most people To be forced into isolation is not a good thing. And so I Look forward to being able to be back Going back to minister in the way that we do in a personal level I can see that I'm going to be more involved on a personal level with people than I have been in In some time I can see that and I look forward to to being able to interact with people to visit with them and Yeah, when we were able to finally get back together. It's going to be like a family reunion and we're Looking forward to it John as soon as possible. Yeah, it's go ahead. Marie. I'm sorry No, I'm just agreeing with him. We're already figuring out what we want to do and the first time Our church opens back Things that we want to have Here You know one of the things that you're mentioning When you when we do come back Were there things that you thought about that you would do different when you came back? You know one of the things I've been even looking Within the ministries that I've been blessed to oversee is so what are what am I going to do different? that it's going to be effective and and going to be just I Was caught off guard. I think all of us were caught off guard by this whole thing and It's allowing me to prep and be better prepared in case anything like this happens again Well, I suspect that some of the things that have occurred Since we haven't been able to meet will continue as I've been mentioning We have seven day a week church now seven day a week John as you know Monday I our young adults is broadcast and I know our junior high and high school have been broadcasting our Tuesday men's study has been broadcasting online. We've been doing more Facebook live I do Facebook live on Tuesday and on Thursday. We have our Wednesday night You know online. We have a Friday a Q&A with Marie and me on Saturday. We have our Marriage and family series that we're doing right now. We do our two morning services on Sunday online We added a two o'clock service online. We do our Sunday night so So many things the kid the kids ministry has been putting on things for for our children So we we really came out of the you know, we came out of the box if you will we we We should have been doing this all along but there was no real need for it all along and There is now and what I expect is that we will continue Doing these kinds of things will continue having online nights of worship continue to have a variety of things that that are still in the planning stages as Well as resuming the normalcy of our church so You know, we've been seeing quite a number of responses for from our viewers listeners from our church and I Would encourage any who are listening to this right now to contact us Let us know that you're listening to share these things with your friends Let them know that there are things that are that are happening in your fellowship right now that Would be a benefit to them because I really believe and we and I together have believed all along That the things that that God's word has for us are things that we need to be in every day And so there are options and opportunities that that this virus if you will have given us opportunity to respond to and So as I've been saying and this is the thing that the Lord laid on my heart But the enemy meant for evil God intended for good and we're seeing good from this How has it for both of you personally? How has this been a benefit for you? In terms of have you looked at within yourself as it increased your faith Has it this whole time because there was a time when this all went down this whole corona virus. There was a moment where Thoughts crossed of man the church can shut down and And now we see what the Lord is really doing Has there been a benefit To all of this to your faith. I think so John I think that we have to trust the Lord, you know I you know, do you do you I trust him? I mean, you know, I think the question is do you trust him in this? Whatever may happen and I and and I I think that Dave and I both have fully trusted in the Lord to to do a new thing a good thing and and I Think through the ministry different ministries that have started here, you know reaching out to the community on Facebook YouTube and all that even in the women's ministry Devotions, you know, we're putting out devotions. We're putting out We're doing exercises, too, you know, we have one of the get a couple of the gals leading exercises, you know Connie and I are talking to people through the internet and You know, so it's it's been it's been a good thing and Because you get different perspectives too as you as maybe you interview different people, you know I've been trying to do some of that interviewing and asking people what are you doing? What how are you doing and what's going on and but it has I Never in my day would have thought anything like this. We came straight back Straight home from Israel and all of a sudden more corn, you know, basically, you know Pastor for you has it has it been a benefit for your faith? you know, it's it's been a reminder and in in some ways, it's been a Purifier because as I mentioned recently on a Wednesday night Bible study I Was watching the news On a weekend and my son Joseph and his wife Karina and our baby Olivia my grandbaby Our granddaughter I had just moved in to the house, you know Because they were doing some work in their home and so they vacated their home and you know We had room for them So they came and lived with us while the construction was taking place Which for me is a great blessing to be able to have you know, Joseph and Karina and my my Olivia our Baby girl and so for us, it's a pleasure and a joy for them to be with us and and all of that And so Joseph was sitting You know with me as I was watching the news and and they said everything is shut down all churches are shut down and That hit me hard John it hit me hard because as you know, our church is built on Jesus as the chief cornerstone and so we call him our our foundation, of course the word of God and Jesus Christ himself revealed in the word of God as our chief cornerstone But we built our fellowship on a philosophy of ministry that included what we called our four pillars The word of God worship of God the witness we invented a word witness for a W speaking of fellowship and and then the witness because we believe that God's word and worship Contribute to the reality of a community that is a Jesus people community that takes his word out and Becomes a witness right and so those four pillars have been the center of our Church's philosophy and activity for 39 years as I was Here waiting as Marie was sharing and I was thinking now But what I share I began to think about that because our church actually has been meeting together Before we called ourselves by the name of the church called Calvary Chapel Cina Valley for 39 years We celebrate our 39th Sunday morning service in July But we were already meeting as a group of people prior to that on Wednesday nights So for 39 years We've been meeting together with people who became our church and the very first Sunday morning in July that we gathered together I laid out that we would be a new thing I I taught out of Isaiah 43 18 and 19 and God tells us don't remember the things of the past behold They do a new thing and in that new thing as I was sharing with our church I said we're gonna have four pillars and those four pillars I just mentioned and so community to me a fellowship. It's extremely important and So our church has been built on Jesus Christ or chief cornerstone and these four elements of biblical living That have made us into a group of people that are more than than people who show up on a Sunday We're a family in many ways because the church is broken down into groups and subgroups. We have so many women's groups We have many men's groups. We have children's ministry events. We have name it We've got all these various kinds of ministries that break this this megachurch into small groups and so All of a sudden we don't have community anymore. And so I was sitting there watching the news when When they said churches are now locked down. Nobody can meet on Sundays and With the lack of information and not knowing what's really taking place and even right now after several weeks Nobody really knows yet because you get such conflicting reports And it really depends on the political bias of the reporter at that time as to whether or not they see value in the church Value in community because we see that we see that abortion clinics are still open because that's necessary and and that marijuana dispensaries are Necessary and drive-in theaters are necessary. They're essential and liquor stores are essential and and all of that We see all this stuff that this is essential But the gathering together as a group people to worship God and have community. Oh, that's not essential You can go to a bowling alley in some places and you're actually going bowling But you cannot be too close to another believer in Christ and for us, you know I I don't see that as a direct attack from from people who hate Jesus Christ I really don't I see that as just the way the world thinks and when the world begins to think of what means something What is valuable the church is normally not in that mix We live in a society that values nurses more than they value clergy and because that's true You know, I was there aware that what is happening is an undermining of one of the pillars of what Christianity is Which is getting together like it says in Acts 2 42 through 47 You know to remain constant steadfast and in fellowship and doctrine and breaking of bread and prayer all of that are essentials So I was sitting there and they said the churches are locked down and I turned to Joseph and when I turned to Joseph He said dad, it's going to be okay. Well, my son knows these things. He's been raised in faith. He loves Jesus Christ He's he knows but I said you don't understand Because what this is is really an attack on the essentials of what a Christian is and what a church is and I said in Son, I said you don't understand how that's going to impact my church Because we are built on community community that is around Christ Now we can't meet and I I teared up. I mean anybody who knows me Knows that when something matters to me The emotions are very real and they will well up and my eyes watered and it bothered him quite a bit to see his father So upset and I was and why wouldn't I be you know, I'm thinking About it and I told them I said son I said I knew and I know that that the Lord will will one day remove me from ministry I know that I will no longer be the pastor of this church. I have Awareness of that. I know that I'm not opposed to that. I want God to do what God wants to do son I said but I didn't know that this could be the way that I was removed from ministry I said and I said I'm greatly concerned over what's going to take place in my fellowship And the church God gave to me and I teared up in front of him and he got very quiet And I went to bed later on and I was praying, you know, I you know the scripture says to pray Without ceasing and and that's not just getting on your knees at certain times. It means they have a constant communication a constant prayer life talking to God and I Pray without ceasing. I'm constantly Forming prayers in my heart and mind and sharing with the Lord. This is what I'm thinking This is how I'm feeling. What am I supposed to do? That's my way of life And so I was about to go to sleep and I was praying God you've got to give me peace. You've got to direct me I don't know what we're gonna do. I don't know what to do So I woke up in the morning and as I was driving to the office The Holy Spirit reminded me of what he told me in my own heart through a prayer time I had with him 38 years ago when we were looking for some property We had to find a place to go There was nothing on the horizon that I could see and I was crying out to the Lord as I have for so long for this church And I said to him I don't know what we're gonna do. We don't have a place to go The kicking us out of the building that we've been renting. I don't know what we're going to do what's going to happen and His still small voice spoke to my heart in a way that I'll never forget. He said I did not raise you up to let you fall It's funny that that's the same kind of thing He said to my own pastor Chuck Smith when Chuck was concerned about some property They were buying in Costa Mesa and they didn't have the finances for it and and he said God We don't have the money and God told him, you know I'll take care of that need and that's when they sold a corner piece of property there that became a gas station And the money that they received for that corner a lot just a portion of the acreage finished off what they needed in order for them to complete their building project and so The Lord spoke to my heart in a similar way. He said I didn't raise you up to let you fall Philippians tells us in chapter one. I believe for six, you know, he who began a good work will continue it and complete it and so I Got I got peace in my heart and I came into the office this happened on the way to the office and I got came into the office with a new attitude and And though we didn't have church services and and all the following week the Lord has shown himself faithful to us in every way and every way that has Has been needed and he meets our need. And so what have I learned? I relearned I have relearned that God raised this church up at the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, you know I relearned that and and I also learned something else that Marie has been trying to convince me of for For many years. She said I she said David. She says your church loves you Because I haven't I Haven't thought so for a long time And so when she said that She says your people love you and I've seen that to be true too. So those are things that I've learned Yes, and and to yes church family, you know how much we love our pastor and Marie. It's just amazing, but me more I Don't know if people really see The work that you both put in behind the scenes weekend and week out for our church and Being able to be blessed to be a part of this staff. I I do see a portion of it and how you Travelling and and over the scriptures and wrestle the scriptures to produce Godly people in our church to give the word leading the women You know and and all the things that you guys go through that a lot of people don't see because of your love for the church Being able to see that on a small scale Allows me to appreciate and love you guys as much as I do And so just remember my birthday's March 1st, you know, you can give me some gifts right pastor You're still around You know Marie You know the week before last we spoke about marriage and and I want to just highlight some of the things that we spoke about that week before last and You were sharing Marie about the role of the wife giving husbands Undivided attention and listen to them Not speak badly of him But rather with respect. Can you share a little bit more about? that About how important it is that the husband the wife is on the same team of the husband Oh, I think it's very important You can either you can either build your husband up or you can tear him down through your through the use of your language and And the way you speak to him and I'm thankful. I did have a mom who was never told my dad down I'm thankful for that because I brought that into our marriage. I You know, I love my husband. I mean and I Don't think I've really ever I mean we've had our times of what's the word of times of you being wrong? and you being wrong Arguments and you know at their times, but not really not not where we Were so angry with one another You know, I you know, you can disagree to disagree and sometimes and but we agree most of the time I mean, you know, I I I don't have any issues with my husband And and I I've already I've always respected him and So I and that's important I think women need to respect their husband They shouldn't be making your husband you shouldn't be making your husband look foolish, you know, especially in front of other people especially I think I Know of a woman who constantly as a believer was constantly on her husband's back Constantly because he wasn't a great believer, you know, he would you know And he would you know, he wasn't doing the things that uh, you know a godly man leading the home You know, he wasn't leading the home, but she just constantly was on on him Always always always always and and And it tore him down he finally got to a place where he did he did Come come around However, I think it had to take her to to keep her mouth quiet, you know and to learn some lessons because You know, we can tear her husband's down with our and with our mouth and and our words and it is a Never fruitful there's nothing no fruit from it whatsoever and The only person that looks bad is you you know, too when you hear a woman just nagging and talking to bad about her husband, you know instead of Instead of keeping her mouth quiet and praying for him on his behalf, you know that God would Do work in him but that God would bless him that and that for herself that Lord make me a woman that my husband that I can that my husband will love and enjoy me and and just Honor me and and and as well. Let me honor my husband and and the way that he is the head of the home after all You know, that's important in Proverbs 31 it talks about The husband's heart safely trusts in her or she holds her husband's heart in her hands And that's so important when you know and you know this pastor you've been married almost three times the time I've been married But to know when you're you can safely trust in your wife and that that you have a wife that supports and is behind and encouraging You know the Proverbs talks about the contentious woman Continual dripping, you know and or on the corner of a rooftop How encouraging it is to To have a wife that is just encouraging and supportive, you know, I I married a very good woman John and It's just true, you know, I married a very good woman and Marie's mama Marie's mama is a very sweet woman. I love her very much And her grandmother Marie's mother's mama Was an amazing woman. So there is a trait In Marie's heritage of godly or sweet women. I'll put it that way sweet woman women who have gentle spirits and kind dispositions So when I met Marie, you know, she came from that heritage in it and it shows In the way she thinks in the way she acts And I know that I have a wife that is Very unusual. I know that but it took an unusual woman to be with an unusual person like me So god, I believed formed her For someone like me And so she has filled in the gaps of my life Marie doesn't have the disposition towards Verbal control. I mean every person has influence. Every wife has influence over the husband It's not as if she doesn't exert her womanly influence. She does But she has learned how to exert it in a way That doesn't make me feel threatened or controlled Or dominated You know, she's learned she's she's learned How to say this is what I want or this is what I need In a way that makes me want to To meet that need If she were demanding we'd have an entirely different relationship Because I'm hardheaded, you know as every husband I know is You know to some degree and so I was raised in a home prior to my mom coming to faith in christ I was raised in a home with a an angry mother You know, I loved my mom with all my heart But mama was angry And my mom was very controlling And very dominating And it took a long time For her to finally begin to change and it came after 25 years of being married to my father And so I grew up with this Sense that I will not allow someone to have that kind of Domination over me my father was a very quiet man very kind man Get to a certain point and You've already crossed the line. That was my dad But my dad had a very great amount of patience. I would say with my mom And I didn't have that patience and so when Marie and I first were Married wasn't when we're dating. It was usually you learned some things after marriage, you know And so when we first got married within the first year Marie would try and explain to me in the way she did How she felt But I told her and because I was a young man also I said that isn't the way That you approach me with those things because if you're looking to have an argument Then I am more than willing to have that Because you are not my mother and I actually said that I said I married a woman not my mom And that I didn't know how else to say it. I'm very plain spoken I've learned since then how to gently speak but at that time I'm just learning No excuse just that's the way it was And so Marie began to adjust towards me. How can I tell him What I need and me I began to adjust saying I need to hear what she has to say eventually what it became was a A I'd get a little quiet and let her talk Then I go in another room and I think what is she saying Because I might be in disagreement And I would I would think about it. She learned that I think about what she's saying Then I'd come back out and I'd say I can see your point You know and we learned to discuss things that way So over time after all of these years We kind of like are aware of where we're going even when when something feels like it's going somewhere And and I might I might say you know where this is going to go you want to rephrase that And she'll say yeah, and because I know she doesn't intend to But it's just me. I sometimes come home from a stress-filled day or whatever and it's me It's not her most of the time And so that's what has happened over time. She is uh You know again as a husband When the scripture says dwell with your wife according to knowledge It's Peter's way of saying Don't make your house into a hotel or a motel Know what's going on know the affairs of the home And get to know your your wife's language the way she speaks what she intends what those words mean And because some men are very good at telling you what the their favorite sports team is all about and their history and And their one-loss record and all of that and there are a lot of guys that you know and I know Who can tell you about their favorite golfer or they can tell you about their favorite Baseball player and they know all about them, but they don't know their wives And so I just made a decision that And we used to say it kind of like this I used to say And I said it to the church before one of these days I'm going to retire I will be out of full-time ministry one of these days And I want to know the woman that I'm living with I don't want to get to know her After I've retired and discovered there are things about her I didn't know So I dwell with my wife according to knowledge. She is my chief study. She really is outside of God's word I study my wife. I really do I I listen to the tone of her voice I hear the words that she's speaking I see how many times she's used a certain word or repeated a certain thing You know, I watch her face. I really study my wife and she can tell you that because even in our house We have the kitchen area And we have the a sofa and a tv and I'll be at the tv And my son has been saying to me dad you need to turn The turn around and put the tv set over the fireplace And he wants to redecorate for me, you know And I tell him I can't do that son. Well, why not? I said because when I'm sitting right where I'm at right now I can look directly at your mom And I can see her and I can talk to her and I can just look and see that she's there and watch her I said and if my back is to her and I'm looking at a tv screen. I'm not looking at her All right, so that's me. That's how I live, you know again There is there There's nobody more important to me in this entire world More than you know, that my wife outside of Jesus Christ. That's a fact. I mean, that's not just saying it That's that's a fact, you know, and I was just we were just talking yesterday About this just yesterday because we talked about deep things John. We don't just kind of we talk about life That's another advantage I have with her And and I'll tell and I tell her let's take care of ourselves because I don't want to be without you I don't want to be alone Without you. Let's take care of our health And I want the same thing Let's take care of each other Two little old people bouncing around in the house taking care of each other what you guys meant Marie was 22 I think so I was 24. Wow Wow Right. I just to turn just to turn 24 Just to turn 24, you know, one of the things that you mentioned Marie, you said it and then pastor you reiterated it was the adjusting And uh, I'm no expert in marriage But I can see a lot of times when I've met with couples that the willingness to adjust to one another Isn't there And they're they're set in their ways in a way where well, I'm not going to adjust and I'm not going to Because it's my way or the highway whether that comes from the husband or the wife But the importance I've heard you both speak about it even just now That there's a time where it's almost denying yourself To adjust and allow ourselves to study our wives or our husbands And that's what we're supposed to do to deny ourselves To put one another above each other one another, you know, you know, put them first Yeah You know Marie last the time before last you you shared a quote With me Yes, and can you share that and speak a little bit about It's a quote from Michelle Sullivan. And yes, I thought it was I enjoyed the I thought it was interesting It said her quote was on marriage if you meditate on all things your husband does wrong Eventually you will find yourself married to someone you don't you do not like And I think so many unfortunately women just Allow themselves to just Just beat their husbands down verbally and You know with their with their tongues. Would you would you say that would stem some from Taking one another for granted Oh, sure that can happen. Oh, I think you but if somebody's taken the other one for granted There's exactly what Oh, oh, of course. I think you know, yes, you can take some. Yeah, you can think oh, they'll never leave me, you know um, I can I can act any way I want with my you know To my husband tell them all that all these things that are unbecoming and and and that are That are cruel and then think the the next moment Things are just great, you know Which I don't wouldn't I don't get I don't I don't get People who can just turn like that on one another though. I have seen it, you know Yet, uh, what kind of marriage is that? It's very sad Very sad and some people do do stay, you know Because they think they have no other place to go frankly You know before the interview we're just sharing about a scripture in Ecclesiastes We're using it as a ministry principle. But again It's a it's a scripture that's used for marriage all the time two chords Are better than one three is not easily broken. Yes, and how has that been? A verse that has been applied in your lives in terms of I mean, there's so many obstacles that for all the years that you've been married in And keeping your focus on christ in the center of your marriage I'm sure there's a lot of obstacles a lot of things that have come down your way where It's been difficult. How has that verse really been true in your marriage? Let first Because Marie's you know sharing the quote she just shared talking about Not taking each other for granted We shared a little bit about adjusting all those tie into To being able to not only look out for How we can better ourselves for our marriages, but it also looks at and you said it perfectly Marie How do I put my husband before me? in terms How does that work in your marriage being married for so long? I can tell you I can you know, I hate I hate to You know this about me, but I'll say it so that those who don't I'm not one of these guys who buys books on marriage. You know, I'm just not I mean you can have you know You know men are from this planet and women are from that all those books people love the easy handy dandy guides to relationships, but Though there may be some value in the insights these people give each couple is different You know, that's why when people ask me what is a Christian marriage You know they're they're asking They're asking me to define what they're supposed to have and then to put into some little box in many ways You know certain ingredients that will make them happy with whatever it is that they have and I I believe that that Somebody once said that marriage may be made in heaven, but it's worked out on earth there is a There is a learning That you have that you have to go through in order to To understand what the two becoming one is and so I think for marie and me and I speak it for myself But I think she's in agreement with this Um, we know that we're better together than we are apart We know that uh, we have chosen each other I I chose her and she chose me And and we see that god God is the one orchestrated that choosing I've never had john. I've never had um A sense That I married the wrong woman I thought at one point she married the wrong man, but I've never felt that I married the wrong woman um Her goodness is is made me want to be a better man And and marie's kind of saying that in some ways when she's Sharing her heart with you marie doesn't understand How a woman cannot love her husband. She doesn't understand that She doesn't she doesn't understand and I'm speaking for her. I'm just repeating though what she said just a moment ago She doesn't understand how a woman can put down her her husband no matter you know She she I'll put it this way. She shouldn't say things publicly some things Sometimes they need to talk about get private counsel and all of that. I'm not saying that's not necessary sometimes, but But in real life, I mean you stood before god in witnesses and you promised to love one another And for us an oath to god matters and and maybe for some other people john Maybe they don't know what that means Maybe they didn't realize that when they said before god in witnesses, I will love you until the day I die They didn't understand that We did You know, my oath was not made to witnesses and it wasn't simply made to marie My oath was to god And I mean that I mean that I I was nervous on our wedding day Because I thought am I able to keep this oath To love and to cherish Until death there was part Am I able to be that man? And by god's grace I have been and so Neither she nor I Really came from a background Where divorce was an option And we didn't come from a background Where fighting was normal and being mean to your children. It was just a way of life We did not come from that background. My mom was abusive to us She was my mom could verbally and sometimes physically abuse us and I mean it in the way the word abuse Is used today my mom When she before she came to christ My mom abused us on occasions in a violent way in a hurtful way Not only with physical violence, but with uh with verbal violence It was a time in my home that I heard I hate you much more than I ever heard I love you. So I grew up with this this sense of there's got to be something better than this Then mama then I got saved I led my mom and dad to faith in christ and mama's anger and stuff Began to be dealt with by the holy spirit and my dad became more warm and loving because christ changes people and um But I already knew in the back of my mind that what I did not want what I would not be You know, I had to learn to work that out But I knew what I wasn't going to be so god gave me marie And so when marie loved me and and and oh this and and god knows I wasn't aware of the depth another person can really have of love for you Till I married this woman and then she she's for all these years john She's she's loved me. She's never done anything, but loved me How can that not change me? And why would I give something like that up? for what or what You know what I mean, and so We're we're from that background. We you know We just we just know that All things are possible through christ. We know that We know that we're sinners who got married and But with him working together that you know that that three fold chord jesus being the one that keeps us together john we know that's true and There's never been an option Either one of us have ever entertained That that our life would be better without one another It would not be better and uh And that that's just that's just that's how a lot of people thought john That was the environment we grew up in when when I When I was a kid I only knew out of all of the neighborhood and all the kids I knew I only knew two people from a divorced home I only knew one person whose mama was working and that was me In my neighborhood every mama stayed home And they took care of their families and they made dinner for husbands and they had sunday dinners In my home my mama was ill and and daddy was spending all of his money on doctors bills and Mama went to work and basically left me alone with my sisters for years and my brother got out of the house at 15 You know, so I knew what I didn't want and when I met this girl here You know and she was a girl to me. She's still I still call it my girl You know, but when I met this girl here and she She Loved me And I knew that god gave her to me That's how you make it You know, jesus christ in the center of everything We take what we have if there's a difference and again, I it's true when I say this john We have our differences. We're not the same person. We all have her, you know, she has ideas I have ideas But when we combine those ideas They make a better us And if that idea won't make me a better person and won't make us a better person together Then it's not worth it. That's how we are And I don't know how to explain that but it's just true. My kids can tell you that's true um I'm better with her and She's better with me. That's right and somehow it worked but it's because There is one who brought us together who we honor and fear and that's that's my lord Both of us And dave is the one that brought me to christ You know sat under sat under is teaching all this time I was asking pastor about that Uh, I don't know if you're in the office marie went out asking I asked pastor is marie Is she would she call you pastor? first or your husband And uh, we had discussed we had talked about that because she was saved under your ministry. That's uh That that is cool. What is it the answer for that? Am I your pastor or your husband? you're both Here that's what you said Oh, yeah, you're both you're both you're both You don't see a difference when I went to bible study, you know, I was learning under him, you know Maria's never had another pastor. She's never had another man. She called pastor. No There's been pastors of the church. She attended But she's never had another pastor. I've always been that and I've always Always tried to live up to that as long as we've been married. I've tried to live up to that that I am I am that you know Here's the thing you were talking about this the other day You know how that when we were in israel and I walked by marie and I were walking by a synagogue on shabbat And we see the children in a playground and the the wives are The mothers are watching the children and then you look through the Windows and you see all the men and the rabbi And I asked my guide. This is when we first went to israel and I asked my guide How come the women and the children are in a courtyard the kids are playing And the husbands are Are in the room getting instructed. Why aren't the women there? He said that's an orthodox Congregation he said the responsibility of the father Is to lead the home in the ways of the lord So they receive the instructions And they take those instructions and impart them to wives and children And they play the role of the rabbi of the home Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? You know, you have a woman's Event and all the women want to show up. You have a woman's retreat And you have to stop sign-ups because the women, you know, this is true You have to stop you limit sign-ups Then you have a men's retreat And they're you're talking to the last week to the men And and we wonder sometimes why america stinks like it does We really do we wonder why america doesn't have any Real men it seems sometimes I like the uh Like the women are more masculine than the men We've feminized men because they're afraid They're afraid to stand up and say this is who I am This is what I do. This is what I feel. This is how I lead And we end up with a bunch of feminized men You know and um That isn't the way god designed us God has designed men to have a strength That the the the wife can look to And trust and and know that she's secure and know that she's cherished and and know that she's protected You know she needs to know that My wife knows that she knows that from the time i was young I would lay my life down for her, you know to this day and That's just life and she knows that john and i'm telling you that That she deserves a man who knows the word she deserves that she's a godly woman And a godly woman wants a godly man And so any single man right now ought to be growing in grace and godliness and And any woman who's looking for a man should not should not Settle for anything less than the best that god has for her Because if she just gets married because she's lonely she's it's possible to be lonely in marriage It's it's possible to make bad decisions, you know And so for me it was a matter of and for marie it became a matter of This is the right person I am i am better with this person than i've ever been with anybody else And the qualities that this this young woman had when i met her her kindness and her her She for some reason For some reason she she thought i had something she needed. I didn't get it. I'm serious I didn't get it. She thought I had something she needed And and she believed in me and she needed me and and I didn't know what that meant john. I really didn't He takes care of me Yeah We enjoy being together It's and it's I mean and we can just sit here on a couch and just enjoy just Yeah Any last word you'd like to say to our church before we wrap this up today I think that if you're struggling in your marriage to the ladies I would say Go before the lord and take it to him and pray Seek the lord out That seek him in a way that That you would pray for your husband Whether if your husband's not walking with the lord or whether he's walking with the lord But there may be some areas in your lives that You're struggling in and and I would ask that you go before the lord and keep him in prayer Give those things to the lord. You don't necessarily have to give them to Share them with other people. I think sometimes women make a mistake of telling another friend of all the Sins of their husbands, you know, and I think take him to god, you know, that's the best place to To do is take him to the lord and and ask and ask him While you're praying for him that god would do a work in your heart That he would give you love for your husband that he would renew your relationship with him and that That he may give you ways to show Your husband how much you love him and Many many women have been many men have been won by a woman who Encourage and loves her their husband Many men aren't won by a wrathful Wrathful words They're only diminished And so let's let's build our husbands up and and love them and encourage them in the things of god I can tell you that I Have in in in many years of ministry experience john That that when I have met a man who Who reads the bible with his wife? When I have met a man who reads the bible prays with her And agrees with her to do what god says Uh, I've met men Who don't have problems in their marriage The ones that I have Seen problems in are the ones who don't spend time in the word together don't spend time in worship together Don't spend any time in prayer together Who aren't leading and so These two carnal natural individuals Are gonna live natural lives without christ as if the spirit doesn't even exist So for marie and me, what has been the key the key has been That together we agreed that we would learn to serve god in his word Together Because if there's a disagreement with god Well, i'm the one with the problem So if i'm trying to lead my wife and we just read something together about whatever We we have a blueprint now. We we we will agree. Let's do what this says And not what i'm feeling and no let's do what this says And so that really has i mean again people might not believe that and it's it's okay But um It's the truth You know, she and i both have decided That we'll do the best we can To be obedient to what we know Jesus said if you know these things blessed are you if you do them? You know, so there's there's women who say well i'll follow him when he submits to god You know when he's like christ i had a woman tell me that When he's more like jesus i'm going to follow what he says No, that was just another way of saying i'm never going to follow But he says because she had set herself up as judge and jury over his spiritual life See my mom again. I learned lessons from my mom. My mom approached me one time After she got saved john and she approached me and she says david Your dad's just not a spiritual man My mom was kind of quick to to to let me know who was spiritual and who wasn't that was my mom She says you're your dad's not spiritual. He doesn't lead me the way He's supposed to lead me my father my father to me was a good man. The fact that he put up with her He was a good man, you know, so when she when she said that to me I looked at her and I said, what do you want him to do? What do you want him to do? Do you want him to open up a bible and give you bible studies? I said, this is a man who's not gifted and capable of giving you bible studies mom Because my mom had opinions about everything. I said, but this is a man Who does what the bible says? I said my dad loves you And my dad puts into practice the things that he learns from scripture I said, you have a very good husband mama You just want to be married to a bible teacher and you can't make him into a bible teacher So you need to accept him for the man that he is And when you accept that you'll be happy But as long as you try and change him into what you think he's supposed to be My father will never be that Why don't you allow god to mold him into his own image? And why don't you pray for him because you've got a very good husband And my mama did my father was a very good man. He loved her to the last breath of his life My dad loved that woman and over time Mama realized that she was just trying to shape him into the image of the man She thought he's supposed to be because my mom actually told marie that she told marie Honey, you've got to form your husband into the man. He's supposed to be you remember that Yeah, and marie knew better than trying that with me. That's right That's not gonna work So how does a woman change a man? She changes the way the man is by changing herself Because men have a tendency In general have a tendency of responding to the wife. We respond to one another So if marie wants me different She approaches me differently If she tells me something I may not listen If she treats me differently, I have a tendency of responding to the way she's treating me And so it's not manipulation Is simple wisdom to know how to dwell with one another in harmony And I've learned that with my girl, you know, um, I can tell her and I'll tell her blah blah You know and and she'll listen because she's a very respectful woman to me. She will But I've also discovered if I show her my heart if I reveal Me to her Sometimes with emotion sometimes the tears I will say this is who I am and and this is how I feel And this is what is valuable to me because she loves me She takes it before the lord. I know she does And she adjusts to the things that are important She really does so john, I really think that this area of controlling and You know, that's what destroys But when we learn that the greatest in the kingdom is the servant When when we begin to esteem others more highly than ourselves When we learn to to die to ourselves to pick up that cross to love our neighbor as our self When we begin to do those things to treat one another as we would be treated all these things We know we learned them in sunday school and in church services when we begin to practice those things Things change Things change so husbands love your wives dwell with them according to knowledge and wives submit your husband and respect them Thank you guys so much today for joining us and I always enjoy these conversations. It's just more organic, you know And the wisdom that you both are that you both share with our church And again the model that you guys are to a lot of us Who are married and so thank you guys so much And we do look forward church joining us soon joining us together And and thank you pastor and marie for coming in and spending time with us