 you're trying to lose body fat check this out you're better off building than you are to try to burn you want to lose weight stop trying to burn so many calories build the machinery that burns the calories for you so whether you want to build muscle want to get stronger or you want to get leaner your goal should be to build muscle that's the best approach I wish more people took that you got to build the machine that's it I feel like we've actually made this pretty popular now because I've seen the counter now oh really uh-huh I would love to hear what that I'll share with it's not I mean it's just a stupid it's the stupid calorie argument always oh there's fitness people out there that are telling you that if you want to lose weight you should add calories or you should this is that you know they try and god use use the calories in calories out or thermodynamics argument listen listen there's people telling you that if you want to run real fast you need to give yourself a little space to get some runway no just take off right where you are okay that's what we're saying essentially is we're giving you some runway if you build muscle you're going to build more of that calorie burning machinery you're going to make it easier for yourself to get leaner and stay leaner so will you lose weight as quickly as if you just cut your calories or just try to burn a ton of you know calories through activity no you go strap yourself to a treadmill starve yourself yeah you'll lose weight way faster let's see you let's see where that ends up let's see where you are six months or a year from now you're going to be with 90% with the 90% sustainability always has to be part of you got to build that machinery there's your metabolism speed up another actual angle to this also in fact I should just have this conversation with my brother-in-law who's got to lose a lot of weight right now and his thought process was he's like you know I didn't even want to come bother you until I proved to myself that I can walk in every single day I'm trying to make better food choices and so I'm gonna stick to this you know cardio thing and then once I got that then I'm gonna come to you and then I'm gonna ask weights I'm like well brother I said you're better off that time that you're spinning going on that hour high because of actually lifting some weights or at least splitting that time up with lifting weights he's like oh you know I wanted to first do this I said let me explain to you why you want to do that or why you would be better off lifting weights and I know he's like eating I mean my brother likes to drink drink beer he likes to eat candy like he's not that he's definitely nowhere near like where he needs to be nutritionally right I said so let's say and let's just use hypothetical numbers right now I said you go let's say for a run for an hour you burn four or five hundred calories okay the drawback of you running for or just running and not lifting weights is you run for four or five hundred calories and then let's say we just had this barbecue with the family you and I are getting some Stella's right now we have two or three of those has to make sure try and you over you over eat your calories by those five hundred calories it literally negates that hard work you did there okay so now let's say instead of that you did a weightlifting workout that burned about the same amount of calories same situation with the overage on the car but here's the positive part of lifting weights is you've now sent a signal to your body that your body needs muscle because oh you're stimulating what is this guy doing and the overage on calories some of those calories are going to get partitioned over actually to building muscle and not just being stored as fat which also turns into uh the is the machinery that burns more calories all the time exactly so you get this like double win by that and then so and he was like this light bulb you could see went off in a said like oh shit i said yeah i said that that that way you're not so stressed out about always under having to eat so low calorie so low calorie man when you're lifting weights consistently and you have a day where you eat a little over that little over is going to get partitioned over to building muscle listen a lot of this is counterintuitive but i'll say this look at the evidence okay the evidence is not that people can't lose weight the evidence is that people can't keep it off so that approach doesn't work it's it's it's like this okay it's no different than this you want to build wealth there's there's two potential approaches one of them is to work more hours you make 40 bucks an hour well i'm just going to work 12 hours a day make more money that's one way to do it here's the other way continue doing what you're doing with your job you work eight hours a day but now take that money right spend less and invest figure out a way to invest it so that that money makes money for you buy properties that make you a little bit of money invest in the stock market build businesses that can run without you etc etc which one is the strategy that builds wealth is you working 12 hours a day going to build wealth no that'll make you more money right now but ain't going to build wealth there the investment strategy so building muscle is literally investing it's the same thing as investing so if your goal is to lose as much weight as you can in the next four weeks fine forget what i'm saying your goal is to lose weight keep it off forever and feel amazing and be able to eat more have a sculpted body that analogy is so clear that's why i love that analogy too is because one of the hardest parts about disciplining yourself about spending less than investing it's a slow process if you work it's a snowball process you make $40 an hour and you work 12 hours a day you automatically make more you you well you don't have a lot of extra money is what i'm saying and that you have to and then to invest it it's like you're you're right you're not going to get rich overnight you're not going to you're not going to build a bodybuilder physique overnight you know building building muscle building muscle it's a slow process but what's great is over time if you get you at such an advantage that the rest of the work is so easy which is just like investing it's like yeah putting away a few hundred dollars every single month you're not going to be a millionaire tomorrow but hey 10 years from now because you've consistently done that for years and years now you ain't got to work because your investments are covering what your your your hourly is literally the counter to this you know these calorie people are just the paycheck to paycheck people it is you know i can just i can just work more i'll just take more shifts i'll do overtime on this weekend and it's like yeah so you can burn yourself up and like lose all your free time yeah no listen you take two twins doing the exact same thing both making the same money one of them decides to work 50 more hours the other one takes the investment strategy initially the person working more hours is going to have more money initially they are but it's not going to take long for the person with the investment strategy to surpass the brother and then work less and less and less and continue to grow their wealth that's what we're talking about a lot of it's counterintuitive look i'll give you another example okay i could tell somebody and it took me years to figure this out what's funny about what i'm about to say is the three of us who did not train all together at the same time for the most part came to the same conclusion uh and this is what i'm about to say i could tell somebody cut your calories and that's what i used to say or i could tell somebody don't worry about cutting your calories hit your protein targets and prioritize them from whole foods hit 130 grams of protein a day or 150 or whatever right do that instead of cutting the calories now it sounds counterintuitive because i'm telling you to eat more i'm making you eat more protein but here's what happens eating more protein results in more satiety results in less calories automatically the person doesn't feel deprived and that protein in combination with strength training builds more muscle speeds up the metabolism and leads to a better long-term success same thing it sounds counterintuitive he's telling you to eat more that doesn't make any sense no no no i don't give a i don't care how intuitive or counterintuitive it is here's what i care about what works and what works is this build not try to burn everything now yes if you're trying to lose weight don't go on a crazy bulk that doesn't make any sense we're gonna add tons of body fat but can you build muscle can you build lean muscle without gaining a ton of body fat or gaining no body fat you can especially when you're first getting started so this is the approach and i wish more people knew this and this is one of the reasons not the only reason but it's one of the reasons why the fail rate on diets and weight loss is nine it's north of 90 so all these morons on on social media who are trying to counter this by saying the same old tired message ask them where's your evidence where's your evidence because it doesn't work it's never worked what's happening it's not people are gaining the weight back nobody's having success with this so you we're trying to come out with a counter message because you want to get clicks or whatever shut your mouth just shut your face all right today's giveaway again the new program maps bands get it for free here's how leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications if you win free access we'll let you know in the comment section now everybody else there's 48 hours left for the launch okay that means it's on sale plus you get free stuff so if you act within the next two days here's what happens you get maps bands for 30 hours off plus you get two ebooks for free ultimate body weight training guide and quick meals for health and fitness so if you're interested click on the link at the top of the description below or you can go to maps bands calm and use the code bands 30 all right back to the show anyway back to the protein look uh you know one of our partners is a company called creatures of habit they make a high protein oatmeal um i love this so much not because it's a high protein oatmeal but because people like to eat oatmeal for breakfast and breakfast is one of those meals that you don't have a lot of time you want it to be convenient here you go 30 grams of protein right out the gates add water warm it up the microwave and you're totally done so this is one of the reasons why we work with that company is what i just said right hit those protein targets this will this will lead you uh to success better than just cutting calories uh my favorite part is all the free cookies that we've been getting dude people are making amazing the original ones that someone said in we're good very good but these no bake ones that we just got unbelievable do we know who sent them in ducks we give credit yeah boy i the first i think we mentioned the first person on the last time we mentioned on the podcast and i don't have that information in front of me right now yeah but the most recent one the no bake ones is from kerry souder i think i'm pronouncing oh you made it great that was amazing yeah so they're fantastic and so she used the maple uh creatures of habit she used dates pecan coconut oil they're fantastic that's it were uh yeah and there was a chocolate coating on them which is coconut oil and unsweetened cocoa powder that's all the ingredients that's it but we'll we can post so she put it together you freeze it or refrigerate it yes and then boom yeah and the instructions she said to throw it in the freezer for like i can't remember the time on the in the freezer but we actually just put in the refrigerator and it worked fine the refrigerator got it cold enough to make them hard enough and make them perfect you know what i like about this is that is uh if you have kids because kids you know they like the treats or whatever and you want to give them an alternative to the garbage crap that's out there why i mean this is a great like this like legit it's not one of those fake like those healthy treats that really don't taste good this one tastes good your kids will like it you know what i what i what and this is i don't know this is just your guys if you guys experience this or not um because i was so consistent with with max with like sugar treats things like that and and by now i've allowed things to to creep in like here and there and i like to be the one who controls that and gives that to him i talked about giving him gummy bears at the movie theater stuff it's pretty cool because these are the types of things that he's had pieces of like these like homemade you know quote-unquote healthier versions of treats and so he would prefer that so if you give him like a regular like it's too sweet oh it's way too sweet he'll give it back we had we were at the gilroy gardens and my niece she wanted an icy we're not gonna tell she's 13 years old i'm gonna tell her she can't have an icy or like that so she she gets an icy and max sees that she has one and he's like i want one and so we get we take a little tiny one right give it to him and he's like well too much yeah i just you know i remember that too sweet for remember that with my older kids we'd go to um birthday parties and then that's when they would get soda because we never drink soda in the house and i remember my kids would they would want this much in their cup and they wouldn't want any more because it was overwhelming it's like you train you have to train your brain 100 that way any adult should know this if you ever remembered your trend your your you remember when you first had a glass of wine or beer i think you freaking like you like it the way you like it now or coffee yeah you worked on it you did you know crazy we do that oh yeah you work like i'm like this a beer yeah and then maybe now you love it and stuff like that but i've never met anybody who can honestly be oh yeah the first time i taste that beer it was like the best ever yeah you're a liar i still think it's disgusting i mean it's just i hate beer i've tried dressing i've tried i crave it for like a few that i had we had a barbecue and i was like that it was a hot day we're having a isn't it like that with cigarettes i miss beer do people actually do people actually like cigarettes the first time they do i don't think so i feel like they have to keep their must be like yeah select few but yeah that that was always just an immediate no yeah i feel like you have to try it and like i remember i had family members who they started smoking as teenagers and i remember them like they had to like keep doing it until they started to like it well i thought it was just a cool thing like because people would watch movies and it was really out there in pop culture everybody had a cigarette in their mouth and they wanted to be james dean and they want to be the cool guy you know and then it just was a thing but it was always the you smell like a disgusting ashtray so i obviously i told you i i have right i remember i remember the first time doing that here's what it is disgusting tasting but you feel that that high the first time ever it doesn't feel good for me oh i had the head changed the very first time especially the very first time it was it was such a major head change that that is what you're kind of drawn to i figured yeah you're more drawn to that where where you're sipping a glass of wine or a beer you're not getting drunk the first time having sipping the first glass of wine or beer so it's like you know maybe you maybe once you finally get drunk that's what you're drawn to originally is that that drunk feeling or whatever but well so coffee is a great example actually this is a good what's funny that we're talking about this because this is how you develop good relationships with healthy food too absolutely so i remember like coffee i never liked coffee i only liked it if you sweeten the shit out of it and added milk so it tasted like coffee candy then as an adult when especially when we first started the podcast we i would start drinking coffee in the morning and i didn't like it i don't like it i don't like it but i started to like it over time and i think it's the association with the caffeine waking up feeling good getting a workout and now i like the taste of black coffee but i remember that transition it took me a while of drinking it on a regular basis to start to enjoy it and it's the association that i built yeah because it still tastes the same i just perceive it now differently no you're you're so right and you use that with healthy food 100 percent i 100 i mean that that's the the main takeaway from this conversation that i think is really interesting and it's fascinating to watch it when you know as a parent i have control right of this this this newborn and then toddler that's like growing up in this world and so i can control how i introduce it how i celebrate it and associations yeah and we can and we've totally built these this healthy relationship around certain foods and he's such a great eater and i think you know as adults we're no different the difference is that we have many times decades of bad associations with these healthy foods i mean i hated you know brussel sprouts and broccoli and vegetables most of my life it took me till later on in my adulthood until i changed that association now there's times where i crave it if we go off on trips and we eat out every single day and stuff like that yeah i like crave like a steak and vegetable vegetables i just my body wants it because i've now it's like home base and what that is like how do you do that right like what i the association that i've created when i eat that way my digestion feels amazing and then over time that's right my stomach feels good i sleep good that night i don't have bloat and so what i've learned to attach to oh man when i eat this big bowl of broccoli instead of filling up on like bread or pasta or like right something like that it's got a total different way i my body feels and so now that i've paired that my body now especially when i'm off the other direction craves what a great example somebody's like i can't learn to enjoy healthy food did you like coffee the first time you drank it same thing same exact thing yeah it's interesting we're talking about this too because i we have been struggling a bit because you know ethan's at the age now he's 13 and he's always like out and about with his buddies and they're going to like you know convenience stores liquor stores all these things and getting like like sodas and like candy and whatnot and so he was kind of like going off the rails for a bit and then he's you know he's starting to kind of realize like oh this doesn't make me feel good oh this is like you know i'm flaming my gums and like he goes to the dentist and it's like and we're trying to kind of associate all these things with that and so you know i love courting but also like there's just been we've been devoid of like any so any kind of like fizzy anything it's just all water and i'm like we can't i mean that's great that's like ideal but also we need to have options that are like maybe like an in-between thing so maybe having like more mineral water available and like get so you can still get that kind of same feel of it because there is something different about drinking something with bubbles and and you know and like having some lime in there so we start doing that and like so topochico and like all these kinds of like you know mineral waters i'm starting to bring him in to the house and he's finding himself like again building that association with that like a more healthier version of it and he's he's craving him now and he's drinking way less soda that's such an interesting thing to me when i think about that the the carb how carbonated beverage is there's like a craving for the carbonation yeah it's really well that's what the right now what's going on with nitrogen in cough you see nitrogen's made its way in the soda yeah but night but that's different that's the mouthfeel that well i guess it's all mouthfeel right no it's all mouthfeel it's the same thing but nitro is smooth and i mean the point is the same thing it's like your your brain is get the sensation the earliest things that carbonated water is spicy spicy spicy because that's how everyone's it was like oh it burns yeah that's he burped through his nose he's like oh did you know that they that when that when carbonated uh water and beverages first came out they were sold as medicines oh really did you know that no that's where because dude my grandma used to like her recipe always for when i was sick was was a sprite or seven up in in those like salting crackers yeah what was that about like 50s era or whatever like that was the original you could look up soda shops they were at pharmacies pharmacists sold them and they would mix the carbonation well they used for the longest time so my aunt and uncle used to when i'd be sick over at their house they had this uh like coke syrup that used to they took out the carbonation no it was like it was medicine it was sold as like it was only a small thing and it was just the pure coke syrup and i for it's for coughs they used to use it for cough syrup well yeah your throat originally had caffeine in it cola yeah yeah it was like it was it was like cola syrup or whatever maybe there was a caffeine in it and that helps because caffeine can be a bronchodilator it was for your it was for cough well that's what i mean caffeine's a mild bronchodilator oh i don't know they used to give it to kids with asthma you know that with when kids had asthma before they had asthma treatments kids would drink a big-ass coffee in the morning really yeah because it's a bronchodilator but you know Justin you bring up a really interesting because i'm not there yet like to have to do that but we have a lot of carbon we have a lot of sevias and carbonated water like we do the what's that other lacroix yeah lacroix and those and bubblies and i do think that's a smart strategy because if he gets introduced to that early and he likes that and then he's with his friends when he's 13 14 years old going to the liquor store and his friends go it's not a big deal they reach for Pepsi he grabs that no one's gonna say shit exactly he's and he's still experiencing the whole hanging out with friends going and buying like a drink and so like that he just prefers that because he grew up tasting that i think there's a smart strategy probably as parents like maybe introducing things like that for that exact reason never really thought i never really thought about that until right now because like Max drinks like water like he's literally like mostly water he doesn't even like juice yeah that's how they started yeah for sure and it was like nice and controlled well that's the mistake it's away from you the mistake i feel like is all these you know healthy juices that are marketed to kids they're not 30 grams of sugar kidding me like that is priming them for soda yeah like you want to prime your kid for soda give them an juice box because the juice box has got 20 to 30 grams of sugar which is like what soda has i know i know parents whose kids that all they gate because in the 80s and 90s that's what they thought was healthy give your kid juice uh little kids with tooth decay little kids four or five years old because they were drinking all they drank with apple juice all the time we grew up on that like that was around which probably contributed to my sugar addiction because wow that orange juice and apple juice was in the in the inside the that was like if i wasn't drinking milk or water it was orange juice or apple so i didn't drink that stuff not because my parents thought was unhealthy but because it cost more money than water so my parents always saved me money drink for the garden hose did you find that where the sodas originated the yeah the soda shops uh definitely were pharmacies yeah i think if you ever watch uh it's a wonderful life oh yeah they have a soda shop yeah they do probably a pharmacy as well it's a wonderful life isn't the old that's one of the most classic classic christmas movies yeah you never seen that angel gets its wings it'll make you cry every time bell rings bell rings yeah it's uh they they they said that it had medicinal properties and it cured all kinds of different shit because someone figured out how to carbonate you know water yeah what is this oh it's magic i want to try like uh the stores have like targets so they have like the um where you can carbonate yourself yeah i bought one of those for jeff oh you did i did what do you think i guess if you if you're if you're not partial to the how much carbonation it's not it's fine but she likes it super carbonated and it didn't reach that level oh like you know how topochico yeah is like way more carbonated there's so many bubbles per whatever like square footage in there i don't know what that measure is it's gonna bullshit my way bps yeah hey how many bps to the bps in there is like super concentrated and high yeah it does though if you have a sample is that what is that why we all like topochico so much is it's it's it's more than normal yeah yeah it's more bubbly compare it to sam pilla grino uh sam pilla grino doesn't bite like sam pilla like uh oh you know what i mean i we all like topochico i like topochico also it's got way more bite but i've never like compared head to head like fuck out of it oh wow yeah that's funny to me yeah i know yeah and the nitrous is just like way smaller bubbles right so that's what gives it that have you guys see do you guys see i actually bought some i tried uh the pepsi now has nitrogen and i bet it feels good it's weird so you know what it reminds me of uh because i love nitro coffee love it so it's like butter coffee the best so you okay to that point like this kind of buttery creamy yeah so it reminds me of is when you have like a coke float or a root beer float god don't say that i'm gonna go buy the bottom of it after the melt ice after the ice cream is gone yes oh i'm gonna go buy has that frothy don't say that yeah try so what i wanted to do is i wanted to me oh a target or any right now right everywhere they come in this they look like a brown like a brown count it's it's the reason why i actually don't like it is because it comes in it it comes in a big tall kid it's like 380 calories well there's a lot of calories for me to just have a little so a lot of diabetes right there too much but i what i haven't done so i gave him my buddy my buddy when he comes in my house he's always mad because i have all diet stuff and he's he's a regular soda drinker and uh i had those and he'd like sucked him down he loved him and i was like i was keeping him because i wanted to pour it over ice cream because i figured okay that's a lot if it's got that kind of creamy flavor already and then you pour it over the ice cream it might be bomb you know my kids have never had a root beer float i'm embarrassed to say there they are there see those oh what's the what's the blue one what's the difference i think one's diet one's not okay henry vanilla vanilla oh my god so that's the one oh that's why i tasted like the ice cream so i've only had the the vanilla one i haven't had a regular one yet oh i'm gonna have to try the right okay so what's your favorite root beer though because that that determines a nw oh nw's gray dad's i like them all but i like nw's one of my favorite Henry Weinhardt's dude i never had that oh what yeah now is it sweet or is it more because you know root beer can either be more candy-ish or more like bite it's more i guess i would you'd say it's more like a bite but it's like brood it's like brood like a beer so it's like more i don't know it has more kind of like a an adult how did root beer get its name why is it root beer come from a root the sasperilla sasperilla so that that's what the flavor the flavor comes from a root you guys want to hear something funny and then why a beer though so why is it why is it not root because it was they just named it make it like an alternative to beer it foams out so when you're ordering it at the bar you don't feel like a turd i don't know i'll have a beer to get a root beer did you guys know that okay sasperilla root that's in root beer there used to be a supplement this is great i remember this i used to take this what a waste of money sasperilla root it used to be smilax look up smilax i do remember that do you remember that i do remember raised testosterone takes smilax so i remember i bought because i talked i bought everything by the way a 15 year old trying to raise our testosterone it's hilarious bro that's like it probably worked the opposite bro that's like putting a shot glass in the ocean you know what i mean oh i got more water it's there somewhere yeah no but i bought everything right bought everything as a kick that worked and i just wanted to build muscle and i remember you know smilax pills and my uncle who's a herbalist he's like what's that i look that he's like why don't you just drink you know what you actually should explain to the audience so they understand because as here's why i thought as a teenage boy that taking a testosterone still sell it they do Doug look up smilax uh is smilax sasperilla root i think they're connected listen oh they are it is oh it is yeah yeah that's all it is then that's what might see my uncle made fun of me he's i want you to drink root beer i'm like it's full circle now again it's the pharmacy it is that's you want to know what's funny i'm going to buy it again see what happens here bro come on okay so listen listen though let's let's explain to the audience especially our young audience because this was a this is what i didn't understand until i got older like how like testosterone boosters work why are they so popular why there's so many of them why are you you still see you see research that's around them that shows they do work why is it not why would it not boost me at 15 years old why would i get more so 90 percent of the quote unquote test boosters really just increased libido so that's number one there's lots of compounds out there that will temporarily increase libido and that gives the person like the feeling of like oh my god i have more testosterone so that's number one number two the 10 that actually raised testosterone really only do it in men with depressed testosterone if your testosterone is high and kind of a waste of time even then it brings you up to like normal not superficial levels so if you're a young teenage boy which most average young teenage boys are already peak testosterone for their life they're already at the upper upper echelon so where you see benefits is the 50 year old guy who was like so low yes so low then he takes it and it brings him up to here and then and that's a dramatic difference for a 50 year old guy who's in the floor who all of a sudden takes yeah but you take a 15 year old boy who never even goes below here and he's mostly up here all the time and you give him his time waste of time nothing yeah waste of money and look even i always thought it would do this it would put me above my line yeah like oh i'm like taking steroids right now if you if you look let me put it this way if you took something that gave you a 15 percent measurable increase in testosterone which is statistically significant still nothing even if you had high testosterone right your number is at let's say you're at 800 right you're going to go up what 100 something points on on on not on free testosterone total testosterone you're not you're not going to do anything for you it's not going to do anything for you so now like there's supplements out there like ashwagandha that'll raise testosterone a little bit but also builds muscle also improves you know stamina and strength the stamina and strength and all that stuff is not the testosterone boosting effects that's kind of a side effect it's because things like ashwagandha is an effective what's known as adaptogen and adaptogens they improve your body's ability to adapt to us wouldn't you guys say too like if i had somebody who has like really lower or low testosterone like there's things that you could do in their their diet and sleep regimen and lifting weights that will be far more impactful than the testosterone like you getting somebody who has lower testosterone no matter what their age is to prioritize sleep eat a more balanced healthy diet and strength train two times a week you will show rocketing testosterone in comparison to the best testosterone it's not just testosterone either there was a study they where they tested all these different men and they looked at total free testosterone so total testosterone free testosterone and androgen receptor density and then they had them work out and they looked at their results now all these men were within a particular range so some men had lower within range some people had higher within range and the correlation between testosterone and muscle wasn't that big you know it was androgen receptor density the more androgen receptors they had the more muscle they built okay what builds androgen receptor density lifting weights so even if your testosterone numbers don't go up from lifting weights your the amount of testosterone you'll utilize goes up because the the androgen receptor density that so in other words if you had a 400 testosterone level and you doubled your androgen receptor density it would be like doubling your testosterone or more because there's more that the androgen receptors do than just allow testosterone to exert itself well there is one thing you get from test boosters it's gyno you got that going for that's for the whore that's from the hormones that they sold as pro hormones oh that's the shit I took so okay how would you explain so since we went this direction I actually wasn't even playing on tombis but I do want to hear how you would explain this I was trying to articulate this to my brother-in-law so I was talking about him about his diet and trying to get him to strength train the other thing that he was like frustrated with that he was he's like he was asking he's like hey how much how much testosterone are you taking because we have he's on hormone therapy he's been on hormone therapy for like the last like three four months or whatever and he's like you know I just I don't really feel it he's like I don't feel and he's taking the exact same dose that I'm taking right and he's like yeah I was I was telling he's telling his wife Jarlene that he's like I was gonna tell her to give me double the dose so I'm like no dude calm down yeah I said I said you know what I said this is what I explained like maybe you can put better words to this but I was like you know you're doing for exercise you're doing cardio your diet isn't dial dialed in really well and then you add in this this testosterone okay what you're probably only feeling if I had to guess was probably an increase in your libido and sex drive and you're not feeling this crazy strength energy like you don't feel like like that's probably what all your all you're really getting from that I said when you take testosterone synthetically like this all it's really doing is taking you up to like your optimal levels but where it starts to feel the feeling becomes compounding is when you start coupling it with eating well trait lifting weights then you're gonna feel like I mean you're gonna risk you're gonna build muscle faster you're gonna recover quicker and your body's actually more anabolic yes so you're gonna feel way better but if all you do you take testosterone and you don't you're not using it yeah and you're not you're not eating your protein you're not hitting your protein take right you're doing your exercise regimen isn't cardio only you're you're all you might feel from it is an increased libido yeah he feels something but you're not using it right it's like eating extra protein but not having the signal to utilize that protein in the way that you want essentially right so you more testosterone will give you some effects if you were low so go from low to high there's health benefits because being low is not healthy right just like being too high with like if you let's say you took this ridiculous doses too low is not good high normal is better but you there are ways you can use more that testosterone through your lifestyle and if you don't do those things then you'll feel something but you're not going to reap the full benefits of it like look if you've been look I felt profound effects from going on testosterone but that's because I've been lifting weights for so long that I think my android receptor density was through the roof I had optimized everything at the time I didn't realize it was because my testosterone was so low and there's a whole story as to why but when I went on it was like boom because now I'm using it now I'm utilizing it it was like the missing piece yeah but if the if you have missing pieces and one of them's hormones that have all these other missing pieces like well I was I was highlighting to him I said this is I said this is the myth around taking testosterone people think it's like this magical hormone and there is like so if there is some things to about it make it feel magical I said but there is this myth around it that you just take it and you're going to be like this you know buff monster average muscle gain for a man or lean mass gain I should say which includes water average lean mass gain for a man who goes on testosterone who had low testosterone is between six to eight so I think around six or seven pounds oh I've never seen a researcher yeah so like they'll go they'll gain about six pounds of lean body mass and lose I think like two pounds of a fat mass or something like that that's it that's it that's all you got now you take that person you have them work out and you eat good oh but now it's double or triple right that's kind of how I was trying to explain to him was like see what you start pairing that with training lifting weights and then and hitting your protein and takes I said and I said and then I also reminded him to you I said the other positive if it never what I told you earlier I said about you instead of doing cardio lifting weights and then if you actually if you had like today I said because we were drinking beer and eating steak I'm like and we're probably going to overeat a little bit what's great is because you're on testosterone that's probably going to go right to building muscle for you because you if you were lifting weights since you're not lifting weights these extra beer calories and steak that we're having is going to get prioritized as body fat because you're not sitting a single body that needs muscle and he was like oh shit that was all I had to say to him that your beer and steak was going to go to build muscle. I'm lifting weights tomorrow. I can eat more steak. I don't know. The beer build fuel. This beer build muscle. Do you guys know back in the day it was healthier to drink beer than it was to drink water? Do you guys know this? Medieval times? Because it has shitty water? Exactly. Everybody's getting dysentery. So better to drink beer. Hey speaking of back in the day we talked about the software I want Doug to look this up. Doug look up whipping boy the origins okay so I I'm almost positive 100% that this is the story. It's crazy if I'm right that when there was royalty there were children who were royalty and when they fucked up they didn't get punished. It was a kid that was their job was to get punished for them. Okay so we're so let's say you're the king. I'm your son. I'm the prince. You're the prince. This is the whipping boy. Justin. We hire so I fucked up and I we get Justin. I let the dog out and the dog ran away or something like that. I'm in big ass trouble. I had to sit down and watch you whip him. Yeah you watch him get his ass beat. So it's kind of a punishment but also I was the one doing the ass beating. Now I think part of it was you tried to fear. Like fear. I wouldn't know. I think it would be a strategy to strike fear of me that I'm watching this kid get beat. Unless you're like a messed up like Caligula. Well I'm sure there's like this arc right like when I'm really young I see another kid get whipped that probably scares you. Yes terrifies you but then you get to be like a teenager you're like. Yeah this is just gonna create what's that that king in Game of Thrones the one like the shitty little shitty boy Joffrey Joffrey. Yeah he's gonna create a bunch of Joffrey. Yeah I think they modeled him off of it. I want to say Caligula. Didn't they model him after that? Probably. Wasn't Caligula the one who. I don't know the history of that. His mom killed her husband poisoned him with mushrooms so that her son who I believe was Caligula. I think I'm not I'm probably wrong. Could be the emperor and then Caligula eventually killed his mom because whatever slept with his sister was just set Rome on fire. Didn't that the story set Rome on fire? Now you're saying that yeah. So Doug did you confirm? Yeah that's correct. So what they do is they have a young boy for example prince and then there's a young boy that would take the whipping. You're absolutely correct. This is early year replacement of them. So okay now we're so. I thought they hired a little kid this. You know for people all bad though like was I did you hear me out here. Is this all bad? Hear me out yeah. Back then the disparity between the wealthy and rich versus the poor was like you think it's crazy today. It was crazy. Okay so I come from a family okay and like my family at that time I'm like the fucking we're eating on the streets we're fucking we're poor poor. You scoop me up okay. Hey your job is get whipped. That's right my job is to get whipped but I now live in the castle. Yeah exactly. And I get three meals a day. So my understanding is so the boy was actually educated along the side. Educate me. I'm just going to get ass beaten when my friend fucks up. Yeah I guess in the context of yeah of course. That's so bad. Look we always do this right. We judge the past based off of the standards of today. Yeah if you do that sure but still fucked up. I mean it's fucked up no matter what. Imagine you're in class teacher. But if you look even further out what do you think war is? What do you mean? Because the king's sending everybody out to do their bidding and die on behalf of your name. It's the same thing like in a bigger scale. No but do you think you can process that for a minute? Yeah. If you were that like I don't know bro I would take it. You want to be the whipping boy? Yeah fuck yeah sign me up. I'm on the street fucking eating trash cans and whatever and like rough life. That's like I got to get ass beaten once a week maybe. Bro you know what's funny is that people take for granted. Fuck give it to me. People take for granted so much of how far we've come. They think that it's natural for people to have rights to for everybody to be treated in a particular way. That this is not natural. What is natural is how we live in the case. The whipping boy deemed it an honor to take a beating for him. Yeah yeah Adam was right. So basically the whipping boy got to do everything the royal prince got to do. Fucking hey sign me up. What if the prince was up. Bro I got to beat for free. Plus I got to tough that kid's gonna beat. I was poor and got beat bro I was fucking you kidding me. You got beat and you were poor. Yeah I go say like that's way worse. That's way worse. You didn't get a deal. You said bro get to play with the prince you know what I'm saying. Get the fuck out of here. Sign me up for that dude. That's a bad point. You got to beat and you were poor. You still got to beat for Adam too. Yes I did get a pony though. You did get a pony though. No it wasn't mine Doug. He had no electricity though Doug. They had horses. I don't even like saying I was poor anymore because I already feel like Sal was definitely more broke than I was. We just we were we were irresponsible with money. But I definitely got whipped. I got whipped. We were irresponsible with money and in today's time if I could sign up to hang out with the billionaire son and I just got to take his ass whoopings every once in a while but get to do all the things with him like take the pictures at the back of the yacht you know yeah yeah yeah then they slip oh great. Make me tell the dungeon. Adam got a selfie with the prince but he has a black eye on his ass. Big ass grin on my face. That prince loves hanging out or yachting to buy you know what I'm saying. But I tell Jessica stories when I was a kid sometimes you ever hear like words come out of your mouth like oh yeah that was kind of fucked up you know what I mean. I was like yeah yeah if I woke up my mom too early because I'm going to take a shower she threw her shoe at me and you know I'd laugh about it and Jessica's like Jessica stopped me and she goes she threw a shoe at you. I was like yeah and she's like wait a minute a shoe she picked up a shoe and would throw it at you. Oh yeah that's kind of fucked up. That's been my whole relationship with Katrina telling her childhood story. She's like you know that's not normal. Yeah yeah I guess I never really thought about that. I was like wait a minute. Isn't that wild though like because that that's your world that is normal. You think it's normal. Yeah I mean like I would never throw a shoe at my kid. You know what I'm saying? Like I would never throw a shoe. I'm like I would be like what am I doing you know. Happen all the time. You say happen all the time. And the aim was just let me tell you would that shoe would come around the corner. Speaking of your family I saw things news in Italy that like that stuff is. I represent Italy. So yeah you do. Okay go ahead. It's a bunch of like sinkholes like cities like falling in. What? Yeah I don't know that. Yeah it's like brand new. Hold on I'm going to defer to Justin. Is this the sign of the end times again. Can you look it up for me. Once it's in the Middle East. That's right. Oh shit. Oh shit yeah. Hey why he's looking this up. Change the screen though. Yeah I'm going to pull this up here. I saw you know you were talking about your picture of your four buddies and stuff on the scooters. Oh bro can I say something. I guess I realize now why you take the fat joke so well because you grew up being a skinny kid. Bro. Yeah. You really like the skinny kid. Bro you look tiny. I know you look tiny. Don't make you guys look tiny. Oh I mean hey hold on a second. I know it's bro I was always here okay because my dad here I think I was talking to Ed about this too my friend. He's the biggest guy right. He's like oh that guy was a fucking mountain in college holy shit. Dude okay so he came from western Michigan and he was like you know a top rated player and like he came to our school and like I was like roomed with him. My whole job was to get him into the weight room because like that fucking I love him to death. He's one of the laziest dudes on the planet. But you know it. It's true. I mean he was so gifted bro. So gifted. Okay so here's the thing. Like was he strong as shit. Like unbelievably strong like you've never even met somebody this strong that doesn't use it right. So you go to like try to tackle him or or like so he was he was a offensive lineman. All he had to do was like stick out his arm like this and it was like nobody would ever even he would knock people just flat on their back just by this like effortless. And so he did that to me one time in practice and I'm like you know blitzing through one of the holes and he just did this and I just felt like a little toddler. Wow. You know and he I've seen him hold people up like over like we were at this party held this guy over the railing just to teach him a lesson. And the guy was like literally thought he was going to die and he's like calm down. He like put him back down gently. He was massive. How strong was he in the gym. Was he just hitting crazy numbers. You know he never even tried dude but like he could just you just stack plates on it forever and he'd be fine. That's like my my my cousin Andy who you guys know. He's a moose too. He was he met me at the gym the other day at golds the other day. I love this. And we're just we're lifting weights to this dude. He comes out of work enough for his whole life bro. And he lifts. We were I was deadlifting right. And he's like he and he has terrible form. He's know how to do it at all. And he just comes over and just like how do I do this. And he's just like lifted. Yeah picks up 315 like all like no problem. And I'm just like dude you're so nice retire. You know I'm done. He's like put more on that. I'm like no dude your form is terrible. We have to get good mechanics. He's like why it's too easy. I can't even feel it. I fucking hate you. Serious just a moose. Oh yeah. So I mean I my whole childhood my dad was six seven and he was a monster like and he's he's definitely shrunk over the years and like he's you know like his his spine everything's kind of like you know rounded him for but like I idolized him you know and he's like this huge monster. And so it's like I've just I've always kind of gravitated towards like you know big kind of dude. You're attracted to big guy. I'm just real attracted to these big bears. Hug me. Yeah. So what is it? A bunch of sinkholes. What do we bunch of sinkholes. This is like a lot of these are a couple years old. But yeah there's been sinkholes and Naples and Rome literally like like today I was really something. Yeah I was reading on. I think it was. End of time. I'm telling you. I saw I was one of those I saw and then there was other ones were like the in the city and stuff that were the houses were falling. Look just Doug if you just thought for sure you would know with your family I thought you did they have did they have like a crazy rainstorm like over the winter or something like loosen the soil or this is just like no idea. I feel like this is one of those like viral things maybe you click on and then they try to make it sensationalize. I mean he just clicked on news. That's all there is. Yeah. There's nothing super recent. So I don't know why it's not showing up here because I remember in Utah they had that one like whole complex that I know that Brooke was talking about. Yes. I saw a cliff. I saw a clip. This guy was on a lake. I don't know. It was like a lake and he was sitting there and there were trees along the bank and all of a sudden the tree started moving and they all fucking sink and then the lake started going into the hole and he's hitting the gas on the boat to try to get out. Oh that's terrifying. Wow. That's terrifying. Yeah. You can't do nothing. I think drowning has got it. I know they say it's euphoric like if you drown die that way but that's a scary way for me. I don't know that by the way. They come back. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Would you rather burn or drown? Drown. I'm not going to burn. You kidding me? Well because of the fact that I know that it's supposed to fill euphoric I would rather drown. No. I think when you burn, it only hurts for a real short period of time. I don't think that's true at all. I think you suffocate first, right? I think that's the worst way to go. Well so here's what I feel like with the drowning why it would be so terrifying. You're into water. You're going under. So you're going to hold your breath as long as you can and you know at some point. You know at some point you can't hold your breath and you have to suck water in. Oh that's scary. That's rough. Yeah that's a scary. It is rough Justin. Yeah but there's whatever that period of time you're talking about burning though there's like a period of time where that shit really hurts. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like with drowning there's never going to be any pain. It's literally more fear. This is a terrible conversation but we were like actually even talking about it. We were talking about being exposed to like things like faces of death growing up. Oh my god. Everybody passed this DVD to their friends. It came from like the you know their older brothers and then it was passed around and passed down. What was it? Why was this such a phenomenon? You never watched that? What was it called? Faces of death. Faces of death. No I can't watch stuff like that. Okay. So you remember it? No I think I've heard of it. Okay so when we were kids for people no we didn't have the internet right? So there was a DVD for it was VHS when I saw it I think. Yeah I think it was VHS and it was called Faces of Death and it was clips of people of like horrible things. Yeah. I saw 30 seconds of it and got traumatized and walked out the room. Yeah bro it's bad. I watched like four of them. You see a guy I got hit by a train and I left. I'm like I'm not watching this. Yeah it just makes me think of like the internet in general in terms of like if you're a curious teenager you get through that like what they're like searching like nobody knows about you know and then there's a whole underground thing. I'll tell you right now so my older son told me that there was a website that he watched he looked at when he was like 13 thanks kid or dad I guess I did a shitty job that you start at the top and it starts with like nice pictures and you keep scrolling down and the more you scroll down the more disturbing it gets and the goal is to see how far you can get you can keep scrolling down and it shows worse and worse stuff the more you scroll down. Oh wow. Yeah yeah and he was telling me about it. I'm like wow you shit I guess I shouldn't let you sit in your room on your computer. Anybody here about the news also today about Facebook they're one billion dollar lawsuit for what? The privacy. So yeah. Wait who's suing them? I don't know who's I don't know. Is it the EU? I think so actually. Yeah the EU has been going after these companies. Yeah I think and I don't know if they I don't know if they officially won and that's what the news is or what that but it was like a billion dollar massive hit. Yeah that's like bankrupt somebody. Yeah but will they pay it or do they have to? I mean maybe. Well that's why I wanted to ask you like what happens when someone like a company gets sued for a billion dollars by like the EU like I mean. Well they either cease business or the EU punishes them by shutting them down. I am so it says here anyone in the US who used Facebook in the last 16 years can now collect a piece of a $725 million settlement by Metta. So they did the settlement. So this is a US based thing. And it's a settlement for $724. Now hold on I said what do we all get $2. Yeah and the attorneys make a killing. Yeah so we'll make like make like two bucks we should all claim on that. That's the thing with all those class action lawsuits. Do you guys follow Sean Wayland? Do you know who that is? The he's like. Yeah he's the lion's not sheep. Yeah yeah lion's not sheep guy. Did you see he had a big lawsuit that he lost? No. You were telling me about it. Because somebody was trying to say that he manufactured everything overseas. Yeah so like he went through this process where he was like saying that like all his stuff was made in the US and it was like there was a period of time where like some of the clothes he was getting was still from like from China or whatever like that and then like what everybody does prints on the shirts whatever. It sounded like it was a bullshit like small transitional period for him that like it was he still had inventory that was coming from here. He had made the transition here and that's when he had whatever like so anyways he got slapped with like I think $250,000 or whatever and so everybody who had bought one of those shirts got a $15 check mailed to them. Really? Because of that yeah. I thought that was interesting that he got hit like that. The best lawsuit that I ever had money from and you got money from them too was 24 fitness. Did you ever get money from them? Oh I did yeah. I got a big chunk. I got a good chunk of change from them. How much did you get? 15 or 17. Wow so did I. Yeah it was under 20 but it was more than like eight yeah. You know why I got this later on? You know why I got so much money though? Because I worked a fraction of the time you worked there. I was only there a couple years. It was over time right? Yeah we used to sign that I remember okay I remember being taught by my boss like I'd be asking him like well how do I we take a break for 15 minutes here? He's like listen just when you get to work put in and then when you leave you put up. So here was the lawsuit for people don't know right? Yeah we just hang out forever. You're a salaried employee but you did non-salaried work and you didn't get paid for it. But you had to log your hours. Yeah so what you used to do is you would log your hours now here's where people fucked up because I had friends that worked with me who they put nine to five. Nine to five right? Just because you fill it out they just want you to fill it out. What time I came? What time I left? That's what I did. I'm like I'm being honest. I got here at eight and I left at ten so I put eight to ten six days a week. I was only there for a couple years but those hours had it up and later on I left the company everything I'm doing my own thing. I got a check in the mail I think it was like 17 years. Yeah I got like three checks from them for those lawsuits. That was like a nice surprise. Yeah it was a huge come up for me at that time. Unexpected. Yeah and I had left the company by that time and of course I had kind of a sour taste in my mouth the way that ended it and I was like okay this is the pain a little bit. I was happy that I was honest. Yeah exactly. No I'm like that's why I'm so you know cautious about us like I remember when we were first starting to scale and add employees I remember telling Katrina I'm like hey you can't you can't be telling our staff to do this or telling our staff to do that like you that that shit will come back on budget yeah so you can't that's not they have they have to be able to have a break every four hours you have to do this like I know we have this really cool like environment that we have but that's how it starts that's how what happened in 24 it was like such a laid-back environment nobody really cares like oh just write down whatever you are here like you know say meanwhile your boss was telling you like hey you're on your goal you work Saturday you know say it didn't matter that you had fucking 70 hours you already longed. Oh yeah see the weekends weekends were just you had to get like everything done bro I was said I did seven days a week uh eight or nine a.m. to nine or 10 p.m. and I did that for almost a year straight almost an entire year every single day year after and that was a lot of speed stacks involved lots of speed stacks some sleeping at the gym yeah you know what one less adrenal plan yeah for Justin I you got it's interesting I I think about this a lot because obviously I did the longest working for them and I had my son afterwards and I can't imagine what it would have been like obviously because I've been blessed to be able to have the relationship with him now but I'm like man I you I guess you don't really think about that as a non-father like this never crossed my mind that like oh shit if I have a job that I work till 8 p.m. at night like and then I also have a child like I'm gonna miss like I did most of his life I did not even really thinking about by the way I took that mentality with me when I went and worked from you know because I started my working for myself at 23 and that mentality is what I continued with and I'm so young you know and you're just working you know and you think that's your value I did bro I didn't know my kids I didn't know my kids till after I when I when I got divorced and I was like okay I gotta really make sure I have quality time it was like this wake-up call and then I was like holy shit I don't even know my own kids because that's how you get to know them as you make their lunches you take them to school you know you did you know okay I'm curious because did you feel that way like because I you guys all have you guys both have such great relationship with your your kids that for me outside looking in I feel like when I see a dad who is disconnect from his kids it's very obvious to me so I don't feel like you guys had that don't feel like you guys like I felt you don't know it when you're in it dude like I was like well I play with my kids I love them I hug them and kiss them I'm home every night we go on vacations or we do trips but you just don't realize it because you're in the mindset of this is my value I need to work I need to make money this is what I do and men have this this ability to compartmentalize and disconnect it just we have it and we can do it and it can sometimes be valuable sometimes oftentimes it's abused where we're like this is what I do laser focus yeah turn everything off gotta get the family out of the hole yeah that was like I was went through a period of that too did you feel that like did you ever go through that with feeling that way with the boys or something like that or they're very young but yeah I would definitely like the first few years it was like I mean I was around but I wasn't because I was always thinking about like how I was going to get us out of like our situation or like you know be able to to get enough so like we could because we were two ships in the night two Courtney was working on top so we didn't have like insurance if she wasn't working you know as a nurse and so it was like this it was like I would spend the time with the kids would she would work and then it was like vice versa so it was like I did kind of have that but I was so not focused on being present at all it was just like everything I could do to get out of my current situation so for a couple years was there a moment then when you felt like you like how he says how Sal says when he got divorced and then he like had to do all those things like that was a big period for him to like like did you have a time where it was like oh shit now I'm really connected my kids where I don't think I was before as well yeah it was I think it was when we started doing the podcast was around that time because before that it was it was getting Courtney to stay home longer for Everett so when he was born I was like you're staying home like you're staying home for the whole first year like I don't care I'm gonna put everything on my back and we're gonna make this happen you're not working you know and so that happened and then it was like okay the first six months of like you know she had her pay and all that for for being off and maternity leave whatever and and then that ran out and then I was like oh shit so then I had to like create and as being an entrepreneur you have to create another opportunity in that and so I'm like okay I created a boot camp and now you know I'm doing some slinging supplements with some guy I hate you know just to like get like extra income in and then like I'm also running and and booking as many appointments as I possibly can and like and then I get home and I'm fried but I'm also like trying to like hey remember dad you know so the yeah I it was right after that where like I started making more money I started having like a little more space and then we started working on this and I was like I was I just had this this switch was like I just got to focus more on you know playing with my kids and like being outside my kids and like taking time to like you know vest in them and build and like I started playing Legos with them and like it was like we started bonding a lot more for sure like but I was like so spinning the in the chaos of like you know the day-to-day pay so because I really only know you guys as that so but so but it sounds like it's actually around the same time for both of you then so a lot about when when mine pump really started to take off you guys were able bro you might have you might have fallen into the same trap had we jumped on board with the work every day bell to bell remember when it was a struggle for oh yeah yeah no how do we all done that I think we all you would have probably jumped yeah and I think you need to yeah you know that was your button too right well because too and I think that when we started it like your mentality towards that shifted and I was like I agree like I had that same kind of energy coming in I was like I don't want to like just stay here all day till like 10 like I normally would do that same thing I just grind right right right I know you do yeah then you're how much you learn we influence you on that for sure but no hey man I tell you what though you know what's hard now for me is I feel guilty because I have a relationship with my little ones that I never had on my old oh I bet I play with my daughter and you know my infant I change your diaper and sometimes I do the nights with her yeah and with the radius he's you know he's a toddler and I do things and I never did that with my older kid you know I feel guilty so you feel guilty like that but I don't at least I don't see it in their behavior do you do you think they feel that or have resentment all they know is what they know right and they know they've known me now for I mean it's been it's been good you know eight years of me being way more present right so I feel like they probably don't even remember dad they don't know what they they miss like I don't feel like they they go like oh they see you with your your your girl and they're like he never did that with no no no they were so little you know they don't feel that they don't really your own shit your own and you know what I'm gonna say something right now I know this too now I'm gonna take it like out like a big like view of things as a parent you're always gonna look back and you're always be like I could have done that better that's just I don't care who you are I don't care who you are how great you are you're always gonna look back like fuck I could have done that better why did I do that so I know that that's just part of being a parent that cares yeah yeah that's that's the that's the thing right hey I want to say something real quick that I'm very proud of caldera continues to use our clips more for their product I know I'm going to you know taking a left here we're supposed to talk about caldera and I love the fact that they use our clips because it just makes me feel good about the fact that we can communicate their product well I'm waiting for you all to get on the board with the soap I know Doug you've now tried the soap right you said it's the best lather of all time ever absolutely so is it like nitro like we were just talking about nitro is it like this kind of bubble yeah wow it so okay you know how like nitro like your your standard bar soap or like I mean we like it's not big but it's like little tiny lots of like wonderful it's it's a trip how much it foams up like you compare it to a regular bar soap or sometimes especially like all natural soaps you got to like really like scrub on it to get any sort of lather um you I like literally and it's like wow yeah I just I love it I really do like it and I know that's like a well I use their silly thing to like it but there's something which is why of course they you know toothpaste does it why soap does it why shampoo does it there is something about that feeling that you get when you are you know washing your hair washing your body of the lathering up that just makes me feel what is it when like bubbles pop off your skin and it's a weird sensation I don't know I don't know if I notice that you don't know they pop off your skin well yeah well that's what's doing is fizzing yeah yeah yeah there's a shampoo remember those shampoos that may say tingled your scalp feel oh yeah yeah that's just head and shoulders or yeah they just put menthol in there all right so the caldera serum is what I use regularly that's it that's the only thing I use so but that I use it every single day regularly and there's nothing that comes close to to that for for my face or whatever I love all right so we got a shout out I want to give a shout out we've never done this before but I'm going to shout out somebody in our forum hey I'm going to show you guys we don't ever post before and after now here's why we don't post before and after saw this because I didn't see this okay I'm going to send it to Doug so we could put it up on the on the tv is pretty damn impressive we don't post before and afters because this just feeds the whole like you know body shape fast body image stuff yeah body obsession type stuff and we have lots of these we have lots of these okay but this one was so remarkable it's a young dude and Jesse Conrad in our forum this is his before and after from following maps anabolic advanced this is freaking remarkable Doug I just texted it to you yeah I'm pulling it up if you could pull over image so I have to paste it in here bro look at this oh shit look at the difference what's the time frame on this bro March 27th till now that's it yeah wow yeah he says was a bit skeptical with maps anabolic advanced and then he says March 27th is the first picture and the second one today then bro look at the before and after in that wow now I know the program is a mate is effective but he's also probably got some great genetics is that is not I wouldn't say that's normal results that's pretty insane that's not normal he looks like he got shredded and built like a bunch of muscle at the same time he didn't post any stats I don't know how much muscle he gained but that's a pretty crazy how young is he he looks pretty young right he's got to be like in his early 20s is what I would guess yeah wow yeah there you go so he got a he got a shout out on the show Jesse good job thanks for your work man hey check this out organifies a company that makes organic supplements to help your performance help you build muscle burn body fat and improve your health one of my favorite products is peak power this is an energy producing supplement I use it as a pre workout that's all natural I get good even clean strong energy it's euphoric feeling and it lasts a long time great product but they have many other things go check them out go to organifi.com that's or gani fi.com forward slash mine pump use the code mine pump and get 20 off all right back to the show our first caller is Kaylee from Colorado hi Kaylee how can I help you first caller okay cool um big thanks for the show um a little bit about me I started my journey in like 2022 at like 254 pounds and just in um a year I dropped about 50 pounds I was staying at 200 um and I started in the gym um this January so um I've also recently learned I'm ADHD and hypermobile because of that um so I think I'm dealing with some trainers that aren't really sure um how to help me with this specific question so um I'm kind of struggling to connect with like appropriate muscle groups because of my hypermobility um so any tips and pointers you guys can be good um for that and I guess you can start there yeah no good question so um hypermobility isn't necessarily connected to an inability to connect to muscles that's probably more uh related to the fact that you kind of because I saw in your in your note that you've been in the gym for about four months is that true yeah okay it just takes a little while to really get the skill of connecting squeezing to a muscle now hypermobility is basically hyperflexibility without stability so are you the kind of person like without even working out you just you could totally fold yourself in half you could sit in a squat like super super flexible is that what you mean yeah um just my range of motion it's like beyond the normal person's ability to like I can I can move weight in an extended range of motion um and yeah I know it's not normal okay okay so this is what so I've trained a few people with hypermobility and so what we typically do and I don't do this with with most people this is just just this particular category is actually prevent them from doing the deepest fullest range of motion they can do so I I limit the range of motion so that it's a proper rep not a full like most people I encourage them to do the deepest rep they can do with control with someone like you I would say stop your rep short of as far as you can go just make it look good and pause there for a second yeah and then when you get stronger rather than adding weight add pauses to the reps so hold the weight at the bottom squeeze the weight at the top that kind of stuff as you start to get stronger and then when you're holding at the bottom don't let don't just sit in the bottom or just relax you have to support it with your muscles yeah in each of those positions and hold for five seconds six seconds that type of deal that'll help a lot with with what you're talking about yeah the whole goal yeah and then I guess my struggle with that is um the classes I'm doing at my gym they focus a lot on like getting your rep counts in in a time frame no no that kind of limits my ability I feel like to focus on a good comp you gotta abandon that yeah you gotta avoid that that's like the the opposite direction I don't want to take you in fact I'd want to take you another thing you can do uh aside from what Sal was saying where you kind of pause you could even just slow down the tempo like really slow like instead of doing yeah instead of doing let's say 15 body weight squats let's say I might do five with you but are slow hella slow that's a they take the same time yeah exactly one two three four five six seven you're at the bottom eight pause for a second one okay like that slow which is the opposite of what a class settings and I want you to do they're gonna want to be like up tempo keep you moving and for someone like you I would go the opposite direction we would slow down and pause and I care less about how many reps you're getting I care more about the quality and the tempo of the rep yeah I can see you working with bands like for this reason of being like very slow but increasing tension like so if you do what Adam was talking about in terms of like bringing that entire tempo down to a really slow pace holding and exaggerating that hold the bottom so you get like an isometric hold so you're just your whole goal really is control and like increasing muscle recruitment and tension and so to be able to do that you're gonna build a lot more off of that if you just do a whole block just devoted to that and then come back to to to weights and see how that applies it's gonna give you a lot more control yeah Kaylee you're taking classes right now are you in a gym or is this just a class-based facility I am it's a class-based facility um so it's a trainer that was working for a bigger gym he's now starting his own thing so he's fully bringing in more equipment but I just supporting like local people that I know and trust and but I'm also like understanding I need kind of more from the classes I just I'm so new to this I don't really know what programming to do and okay all of that so I'm like just finding following the shepherd at this point Kaylee Kaylee is hiring a trainer for one-on-one sessions maybe once or twice a week is that feasible for you I could probably work that in there is a trainer at that gym I connected with um and I through some challenges through the gym I've already one-on-one with her so um I could totally try to add in I think I could afford one day a week for sure okay I would do I would do one day a week with a trainer and then one or two days a week on your own I would not do classes I don't I don't think classes for for for someone like yourself I mean for most people who are just getting started classes are terrible they just generally are no matter how great their run they just it's not it's not individualized you end up learning bad technique and form in reality although classes attract beginners the only people that might benefit from classes are people who advanced who know their bodies know how to control things know how to yeah I feel like I'm just at a place where I'm not kind of outgrowing what I can learn in the class I'm especially from you guys like um so like the nutrition aspect of my classes like was kind of garbage it wasn't working for me and hearing like you guys um recommending reverse dieting um I was definitely under eating protein now like I'm around 2100 calories 150 grams of protein a day and I'm noticing big changes and my muscle growth and stuff like that all from you guys so awesome yeah what do you what do you think uh symmetry what would you like to because this is what I'd like to do is if she can if she can afford one day we could train her I'd love to give you a program to give to the trainer to take you through then in addition to that I'd love to put you in the forum so that you can tell us as your journey with the trainer so let us know how it's going the feedback you're getting from them so that combined with actually getting one-on-one help I think we could we could do a lot yeah what I would do Kaley's I'd show the trainer this right here so when this episode airs present to the trainer they can hear what we're talking about and ask them if they have any you know if they if this is something they can do work with the trainer once a week then work out once or twice a week on your own and I would avoid the classes and you'll get you'll get better results that way yep okay perfect awesome all right we're gonna send you map symmetry and we'll put you on the forum too okay oh wonderful thank you so much you got it Kaley thank you awesome the the irony of classes I know is that they attract the wrong person yeah the exact opposite yeah of anyone who like I could take a class and I could make it benefit me because I know my body I know what I need to do I don't need to listen to the instructor if they're saying to do something does not work for me how to get in the right I can modify it yeah form and in posture did I hear her mention when she first started talking to did she say she has ADD is that what she said ADHD which leads to hypermobility there's no connection yeah okay I don't know why she said that well you know what though because I have what it does I'll tell you what it is connected to is people that are attracted to those classes oh yeah so you get the ADHD type people the cortisol junkies I mean all the wrong people are attracted to class settings they just really are not designed I mean they're not ideal for anybody they're really not ideal for the beginner that is a cortisol junkie that can't sit still like I want to take this person the complete opposite direction she needs to slow down everything long rest periods and so hopefully the trainer gets to listen to this conversation and then we'll actually take her through symmetry I think she'll do great and then and then if this is a trainer listening my recommendation is like like lean into the slowing the reps down even further than what we recommend in the program look that's not to say there isn't any benefit from classes I think in some cases in many cases it helps someone get motivated helps them connect with people accountability and there and the reason why trainers start classes just this is 100% 100% full disclosure is because it's a low low barrier to enter so it's a great way for them to get more clients who can pay less and then from there they tend to get clients in a one-on-one stage but but for most especially if you're a beginner and you have money to spend you're better off training with a trainer once a month than you are taking classes every single week I mean it's just the fact so so if you're going to spend money on on anybody helping you go with the one-on-one route find a good trainer our next caller is Katia from Arizona hi Katia how can we help you hello how you guys doing we're doing good thank you for having me it's uh it's an honor to be here with you guys thank you and now my question is I guess how to achieve the hourglass figure I know that there's not necessarily a special like a special way for man or for woman but I wonder if there's a I guess specific muscles that you want to work out to look I guess give it more of a feminine look I guess great question okay so um yes you can yeah I'm glad you asked this because sculpt yeah number one uh a symmetrical healthy body is always what's going to look best so let's start with that because what sometimes what people do is they they think they look at the body and they say okay these are the muscles I want to develop and I don't I want to ignore everything else and when as up happening is they do that but because the body doesn't look complete to the onlooker it just doesn't look as good so a symmetrical healthy body is always best now that being said I'm glad you asked about the hourless hour hourglass figure and and how to look feminine because a lot of women think lifting weights will produce the opposite that's not true by developing good strong posture so the muscles of the back the shoulders the shoulders always make the arms look really good staying relatively lean and developing the glutes and hamstrings you can emphasize the hourglass look and those are the body parts that you'll see bikini competitors tend to focus on because onstage when they're super super lean they still want to present a a feminine figure and those are the muscles that tend to do that so I would say overall fitness and health but then special emphasis on back so good posture so mid-back shoulders glutes and hamstrings would be the most important shoulders and ass is what I was going to say so you build you build your shoulders you build your ass now here's the now here's the biggest challenge to that is most of my women that want to do that also are also very scared to add calories and put some weight on the scale so you have to also be okay with that because you have you have clients that want that but then they also want to stay in a calorie deficit so they put no weight on now that's what's impossible many ways to try to try and build an hourglass physique and think that we're going to do it in a calorie deficit or while we're doing hours of cardio is just not going to happen so part of that process is being okay with putting on some cap putting on some weight and sometimes you're going to put a little bit of body fat on along the way while you're also building muscle now we can potentially be in this perfect sweet spot where you build mostly all muscle but I always try and get the client to understand that you got to be okay with a little bit of body fat potentially coming on on the pursuit of building this hourglass physique because what I want to do is put five ten fifteen pounds on the scale on you and then go the other direction and diet you back down and then get rid of just the body fat and then maintain the muscle that's and then that's what will give you this more pronounced hips pronounced shoulders to create that kind of hourglass look but we got to be okay with increasing calories in pursuit of doing that because if you don't increase the calories you're just going to be burning while you lift weights and you're not going to have enough adequate nutrition to actually build the muscle on your body in other words you have to eat in a calorie surplus if you're going to make this happen no workout will work without enough calories and enough protein so that's the bottom line with this how long have you been working out kathya why are you asking this question are you noticing any results or you um yes i actually been working out for about a year just my main focus was glutes to be honest and um so in order to i guess i didn't want to put a much pressure so i figure i would just start with glutes and legs and stuff like that but obviously now um i would like to start looking more start working on my upper body a little bit more but i was afraid of i guess i know maybe that doesn't make sense but i guess to look maley or something so um that's why i wanted to ask maybe if there's a certain way to do it or or in order i guess yeah to do the exercise this is a super this is a super common question and it's also based on a lot of myths around strength friend you you could train like a male bodybuilder and you would never look masculine it's just not going to happen the the women that you see uh that look that way uh are a combination of genetics muscle building genetics that are so rare it's like as rare as someone who's seven foot tall in combination with male hormones let them take male hormones uh in order to emphasize that look but you you could live like a body like a male bodybuilder and you would never look masculine what you would end up accomplishing is a very sculpted uh tight physique so yeah it would just show your muscles off more at that point like it builds muscle builds muscle at the bottom you know bottom line so it's uh that's that's a big myth is that i'm seeing you to create this like boxy kind of shape uh by doing compound lifts and things like that but in fact those are going to be your best type of exercises to to produce muscle i'm going to have dug send you our maps aesthetic program since that was created with this intent like that program was created to sculpt the physique it was inspired by what i used to do to train for a show and i want you to pick shoulders and ass for your two muscles so when you so when you when you get this program we give people the option to pick one or two muscle groups to focus on to develop and then and then the and then you follow the routine the way it's laid out and so shoulders and butt are going to be the two ones that you focus on to help create that hourglass look but then also do that in fact Doug center also the reverse dieting guide so we have a reverse dieting guide so following that increasing your calories while following that program and you'll you'll achieve what you're looking for right on thank you so you guys are amazing so entertaining so um it's it's it's amazing what you guys are doing so keep up the great work great work thank you thank you do you when you're talking to a guy about building his glutes do you say ass also absolutely absolutely if a guy asks for that right guys bro you gotta train your ass yeah well you know you know why it sounds weird because a guy a guy never asked that i've never had a man hire me and go i want to build my ass never have you ever no okay that's why or else i would guys say i want to i would i mean if a dude if a dude said hey i want an hourglass i want to get an hourglass look i say yo bro we gotta build him shoulders and build that ass it's what i would say but that doesn't happen a guy just guys don't seem to care about that guy's asked to build every single other muscle group on their body but you got no daddy dump truck which is interesting though because most women would tell you they like an ass on a guy too of course yeah so well well developed glutes means you can move i know whether a man but it's funny don't you find that kind of interesting that especially since most guys are lifting weights to impress women guys lift what if when guys are lifting weights to impress any muscle that a girl or ever has ever complimented them on or say anything about it i know but so maybe that maybe that's why because because it's it's socially acceptable for a woman to go like oh you have nice arms but not go hate your nice ass so but you know in the back of their head most women are thinking that right most they're talking to their girlfriends you're like dude you see his ass yeah it's true so but they but they don't say that so then we think that oh she wants arms oh she wants shoulders oh she wants legs but deep down she's like no i want some ass oh that would move the culture yeah if they just would point that out until guys like it would definitely be so for all the dudes out there we got a butt builder mod just for you dudes too help you guys build an ass on them cheeks yeah i'm glad she asked this question that's funny that this this myth still exists that women will lift weights and that oh you got to train in a particular way otherwise you don't look like a dude it's not going to happen i promise you there's a reason why it still is is prevalent in the space because there is there is this piece that does happen you you were probably going to start to your clothes are going to start fitting tighter and that fucks with a lot that fucks with both men and women well that just confirms the bias i think that what it is is you go on social media and you're going to see these extreme examples of yeah i know i don't want to look like that like women athletes that self-selection right yeah they're body typed as well and that specific sport that's right associated that's right a high level female athletes and most sports also don't have the genetics that makes them look like they're you know i just i just had this i just had this conversation with my my cousin stefanie up up north and she's like i've been training consistently i've been eating good so that she goes out but you know i'm up like five pounds on the scale and all my clothes are fitting tight i'm like do you look better naked today than you did five weeks ago yeah okay you're doing better you're building muscle you get we just they get they get caught up with i mean most girls already wear their clothes pretty fitted and tight so there's not a lot of room yeah to add anything and then all said we're going up a size or ever just because of the out that's right muscles it freaks it is funny how how men and women are different like a guy will add a little weight on the scale because he's got fatter you know he's like alright yeah it's the opposite right yeah but i mean i get it though as for you know a woman that doesn't want to go up a pant size and then all sudden your her trainer tells her to do this and then she's does and she's like oh fuck this is not what i want but it's like you know you gotta judge yourself off of what you look like you know look like before you started doing that and then after and if you can be honest with yourself and say okay i definitely actually look better than forget about the the scale on the the gene size our next caller is calib from california calib what's happening how can we help you hey how's it going guys good um i uh i just was curious how um i've been working out about a year and a half consistently now and i'm curious how i can't look like um michael hern yet why i'm like 20 some years too no um but i want to thank you guys for having me on um and i want to say too i appreciate like all of the content you guys put out about fatherhood that's like something that i love because i got a two-year-old and a little one on the way and uh so it's encouraging too to hear that sometimes your fitness gets thrown off and it's okay and you know when you're losing sleep and you're like man my hormones are thrown off and it's it's yeah it's it's cool to know that you're not the only one that's like falling behind so i appreciate that you got it thank you um so a little bit about me i'm 27 190 pounds um i work construction mainly like uh carpentry welding electrical um and i'm also an actor i been trying to like my goal has been to build functional strength um for work and uh also helps me to not get injured and stuff um and then also along with that to build a good physique that's kind of versatile for different roles um i've been trying to like figure out how to get my body to a really like good cut state if i need to do that for role and stuff so that's kind of been like my dual goals um so so where it comes to the hurdle i've run into is i ran um anabolic and then i ran uh aesthetic and towards the end of aesthetic um there's you know the supersets and i was doing the the supersets of squats and it's like you know 15 15 reps of squats and then you go into the the dumbbell squats and short rest periods and i started running into like a lot of fatigue in my quads and and uh i was like okay well i'll just kind of take it easy maybe take one extra rest day and stuff and then come back to it um but i think i think i was just pushing myself too much with weight and um not throttling it back a little bit uh adjusting for the you know change of uh phase and i've ended up having like uh like quad fatigue and both my legs for probably a couple months now and trying to do max performance it's been like uh it's weird because i um i'll try to do anything that's like you know really hitting the quads and i'll get like really painful fatigue and have to like back off um so i'm like i'm curious what what things i can do to help that if that just like i took actually this whole last week off of of any workouts just to like try to give my legs a breath like a breath and um i'm still like even when i climb ladders and stuff i still feel the fatigue so yeah curious you guys thoughts yeah and i also noticed here that you wrote in your note that you have a high you have a lot of inflammation you did a test with dr cabral yes sir so i did the test probably a month ago and i've been taking the omega three okay uh capsules like pretty heavy for the last month so okay and when you're when you take time off let's say you take four or five days of no exercise uh do you notice any differences with the fatigue or does it seem like it sticks around um it it tends to stick around i think it's like it's like if i if i push it in an exercise it'll get like higher as far as like pain and feeling it but then it kind of lowers back down but then it's just kind of it just kind of stays there for a little bit um so are you noticing anything like brain fog or any loss of balance or anything like that no uh no i wouldn't say any of that and it's just in the lower body or is this in the upper body as well just my quads okay so couple things now the obvious stuff i would say is cut your you know i'd even ask you about your sleep so the the most obvious places i would look would be like sleep and nutrition yeah but in the meantime you cut your volume way down like way down like a third of what you what you've been doing so if it says do you cut the weight way in half that's what i would do and go lighter but even the volume i would go that does cut the volume yeah but i would go like like if it says three sets or if it says three exercise i would do one exercise or one set of each exercise okay until you feel like you're you're back so do that for however many weeks it takes until you feel like you're you're coming back and the reason why i'm asking these other questions is you know i would also uh you know bring this to your your general practitioner and have them test you for any autoimmune issue or anything else that might be popping up just in case um you may be having something else that's kind of underlying um you know what's going on because uh the the fact that you take weeks off but it still seems like it's not recovering it's mostly the legs i'd want to go and just double check hey doc here's what's going on is there anything i should check out um as i work on this other stuff but how was your sleep kaleb you have a two-year-old and a baby on the way is your sleep just not great or um so i get uh probably on average seven hours to like six and a half and not usually okay do you feel tired um not too bad i i would say like definitely it's coming into so i'm up in redding california and coming into summer months it stays like 110 degrees all summer okay and working out on that and so that definitely starts making feel tired a lot um when it comes to that but um it says that not too bad all right and what about your diet did you do anything to your diet or has it stayed the same this entire time yeah so i've been experimenting a lot with like um doing carnivore i did like a month of carnivore right after aesthetic um and that it felt it felt good it felt like i was running clean yes i'm seeing the same thing yeah i know i was just seeing the same exact thing before he even said that just a mess with that have you have you have you used element yet yeah so i just i've just been using element uh recently and i love it okay okay because when you go carnivore or no carb you need more sodium and then you work outside and it's obviously sweating you need more sodium and cutting your carbs you are going to reduce performance i don't care what anybody says you'll notice a reduction in performance so going carnivore even increasing sodium even doing anything right you're going to notice a decrease in performance yeah okay i as well i did i did carnivore with the exception of um i had fruit okay so that was a still i had a source of car but still i'm pretty low yeah it's still probably pretty low yeah that's still really low yeah but do you have uh do you have maps 15 i have maps 15 maps aesthetic maps anabolic and performance okay because i think i think maps 15 would be a decent option for you too i mean i think first of all i think maps 15 should be our parent we should have called it the parent program i think if you're a parent you should just own it if you're a parent if you're mom or dad you should have maps right because it's just like a solid go-to program when you know rough nights with the kids and stuff like that i think it's a great default for most people so but yeah i would increase increase water sodium do that back off volume or significantly reduce weight same difference uh potentially do maps 15 for a little bit and then i would get i would continue potentially digging deeper because it i know that's what sal is trying to get to the bottom of it just seems odd that you notice that just in your your lower body like that and it's uh this kind of quad fatiguing thing that's really interesting to me too that's not like a a total body fatigue or it's not like you're saying it's heart and cardio like you're out of breath it's more just your quads fatiguing that's interesting did you notice anything else in terms of when you went on carnivore because for me it was like i realized oh wow there's more stuff going on with my gut that i need to address um you know if you went back to like eating more regular if like any food stood out or like because like to to sal's kind of investigation thing like really kind of diving a little bit further into your gut health uh which may be contributing to some of that fatigue on some level yeah i mean definitely work with dr cabral's team they're going to help you a lot uh with some of the stuff um but i mean yeah the the the low hanging fruit is like reduced volume increased sodium and and water maybe don't go so low carb and then see how you feel and if you're still like this is weird it's not going away i would go and get get looked at make sure there's no neurological or autoimmune issue that's that's popping up okay yeah i i do i am trying to figure out gut issues because um since i got off off of carnivore like just being super strict i've reintroduced some foods and i've noticed like gassiness again and bloating again i've been taking seed um to try to like help with that but i don't know i'm i'm looking at different cleanses i know dr cabral's got a couple different cleanses um so i don't know if there's like a good gut health cleanse you'd recommend you know like workouts it needs to be individualized so like consult you about all that if you just go and you're like oh i have gut issues let me just do this you don't know what you're you're you're addressing and it could make it worse you know probiotics if you have sebo can sometimes make it worse you're just throwing more bacteria in your small intestine uh shouldn't have it so okay so when it comes to treating the gut you want to get tested and know what you're dealing with before you do anything because a cleanse can you mask it it can make it worse and you're going to just keep kind of shooting in the dark so i would work with dr cabral's team and get some more specific testing to see what you're dealing with okay yeah that makes sense all right and then again okay low hanging fruit less volume more sodium and salt more balanced diet work with dr cabral's team and then take it from there yeah okay so would i would i run maps 15 then yes beginning to end and then and then after that what would you recommend reassess especially looking okay reassess i mean straight up maps aesthetic is going to be too much volume for most people especially if you're working physical labor yeah and you got small kids okay maps aesthetic even in a perfect world for you probably going to be too much volume got it okay so back into performance then probably performance and okay all right okay cool thank you that that gives me some good direction keep us keep us posted Caleb yeah good luck man all right okay thanks guys thank you yeah where i was going with that is uh when you hear this like oh i take time off doesn't go away it's in my legs only they feel heavy you know and if you said something like i'm losing balance or i feel like i'm not a stable i'd be like okay go make sure there's some there's nothing yeah because it can creep up in in those ways where like no matter what you do you're like what the hell's going on i have i feel like my muscles just aren't especially in the lower body yeah um but obviously that's like you know you'd have to go to a doctor for that but everything else we say is like that's a low hanging fruit like that's where you go when you feel that way and then if it doesn't work yeah then you can start to look i'd be curious to see if he does apply all those things that we were talking about like how much better he feels i'm sure it will at least make a bit of a dent i really thought it was water and sodium that's what when he was could be man when he when he was first time that was before he said the carnivore thing and then i yeah i know the car and i was like i was like then i was like okay maybe for sure but i mean he says he's been using it so but it's just his legs that's the part where i was like yeah that is weird our next caller is daniel from california daniel what's happening how can we help you what's going on guys how you doing good good thanks for thanks for having me on i've uh been a fan for a few years now oh yeah right um i just had a few questions for a couple to the exact um i do manual labor for living i've done i had climb trees and do tree service for living and i'm logged in wildland firefighting all that stuff and i noticed you guys don't necessarily talk a lot about like the manual labor side of things as far as like people that do that in their activities so one of my questions is how do you like maintain growth and fitness without like kind of depleting or over-exerting yourself and i totally understand less is more i don't work out really more than four days a week anyways but the job is always extremely active so just kind of curious if you guys come across any of that stuff in your career how many how many years you've been doing this uh working this way yeah oh boy uh by about 10 years now only 31 so yeah there was a guy out of college daniel in my experience this is general let me give you a general answer okay um in my experience with people who work uh manual labor who do a lot of activity just throughout the day because that's their job strength training the routine typically that works best is about two days a week two days a week full body and you really don't need any additional activity you're probably moving enough throughout the day and just go to the gym full body two days a week and you'll build muscle and strength and then the other part of that is you got to eat enough you got to eat enough to fuel all of that so if you're sitting at a pretty lean light body weight for your height um one of the easiest ways to do that would be to add a shake in between your meals so breakfast shake lunch shake dinner it's just an easy way to do it now the other way to do it would be to increase the size of your meals or add meals in between those uh those meals but in my like I said I've worked with quite a few people like yourself and I rarely ever do I see them respond well to you know three four five days a week of strength training they always do well with like two basic full days a week because they're already moving so much I couldn't agree more and I'm looking at I'm reading this question right now and I see that you you had like athletic performance type of programming crossfit type programming and then bro session stuff I think you just are doing too much I think Sal's advice to pull back to two days a week because what that does too is it does two things not only does it give your body some time to to rest recover and build and grow it also reduces the amount you're burning so it makes it easier to hit the calorie intake that you need to hit to grow also so scaling back to two days a week of full body routine which may sound crazy to you uh maybe exactly what you need to grow how often have you done a stint of just pure strength training where you have like really long rest periods in between you keep it about five reps max um I think about a year and a half two years ago I did your guys's strength program I believe it was the Olympic one or the weightlifting one okay yeah there's a lot of volume in that one in the work sessions and all that our strong program yeah that one I like that one a lot um but I mean back to what Adam was saying for like my career and working out it was those were things I did in the past in the past few years I haven't done any crossfit or like any type of bro I've been doing a lot of kettlebell stuff the past year okay I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that uh adriel maize guy the he's like all over instagram with the kettlebell programming I should know I don't know Daniel I'm gonna so let me just uh illustrate this a little better okay some of the okay um when you're looking at workout routines the best routines that were written or created for people like yourself are going to be the ones that were done in the late 1800s early 1900s we're talking about the bronze era of strength training now why why do I say that because everybody worked hard labor back then everybody did all those people that you know the Eugene sandals and you know the George Hackinsmith all those guys also had to do a lot of physical labor and how did they work out two to three days a week full body never to failure they trained like they were practicing skills and they got very muscular and very strong because your activity is so high you know your routine is not going to look like a fit office worker routine who sits down most of time but then in order for them to have really good fitness they got to work out about four or five days a week someone like you two two days a week three days a week max is going to give you the best results anything more than that and you can tolerate it you probably can tolerate a lot but it's not going to necessarily build muscle and strength but literally a two-day-a-week full like maps anabolic two-day-a-week option you fall give me eight weeks of that you follow anabolic for for eight weeks consistently two-day-a-week routine and I'll blow your mind I promise you I just guarantee just from the way you're talking about what you've done in the past the type of job that you have scaling to two days a week following that program as it's laid out don't do more because you know you can do more do what it says and trust us and you'll come back in eight weeks I swear to god you'll thank me Daniel if your workouts make your job harder in other words and I'm sure you've experienced this you work out hard and you're like oh man tomorrow's gonna be tough and then you're at work and you're sore and you're trying to do your job and it sucks because you just your workout beat you up way too much yeah way too much your workouts if this is how this is a good gauge for you okay your workouts should make your work easier so if if if they make your work harder it's too much if you go to work and you start to feel better at work you're doing the right amount so don't try to do the most you could tolerate do the do the right amount that's going to produce these these results that you're looking for which is building muscle so I would I would scale you back like I said two days a week maps anabolic follow it as it's written watch what happens I think you're gonna be blown away yeah I see on the right you have another part of your question where you say too why am I always hungry and this is why you're just you're just moving and burning and you're not giving your body you want more it wants more rest recovery and nutrition yep and which is definitely hard to do and I mean I try to maintain and I'm pretty frequent at hitting 3000 to 3500 calories a day with the adequate protein intake and everything else I can think of so I don't know if there's I have no idea how much I'm burning because it'd be yeah kind of hard to figure that out so how many days a week you're working out right now calories in four days you said you're going four days of the gym right now uh well no so we have our own home gym um and I just do kettlebells and barbell stuff and we have like a skier and a rower that I'd mainly just use to warm up on yeah I like to um I don't really like do cardio workouts yeah no buddy you go in there and you do like uh like like maps anabolic style workout which is essentially full body compound lifts uh two days a week you're gonna see you're gonna see some good gains you'll probably get stronger by week two oh wow yeah we'll definitely try that yeah I think that was one of the programs I didn't try out at the time I think I did done two of your guys is just not all over I'll send it to you yeah we'll send you maps anabolic trust we're gonna love it yeah trust us and then circle back I want to hear how it goes because I have a feeling you're gonna see some great results you gotta trust that you gotta trust us though you gotta stick with it and then um just one last question I I know I've heard you guys talk a lot in recent episodes about grams per protein and that like after you reach the over .8 mark per body or per pound of body you have uh it doesn't really help you any longer so if you're eating like say I'm hitting like 220 a day and I weigh 190 that's just excessive for no reason type of deal it's not gonna hurt you yes I got especially somebody who's actually got is an intense labor right yeah it's not gonna hurt you that's a good amount it's good to pursue it but if you took out 30 grams and replace it with 30 grams of carbs it's that's fine too it's not gonna hurt you in other words gotcha I see I see what you put as your average 180 to 220 that's actually beautiful if you were climbing oh if you're averaging yes stay there yeah that's a that's a great spot to be your body weight yeah and and then going a little over is not bad it's when people get excessive yeah I mean like 275 300 grams consistently it's like that's that's excessive and it's not doing them any good to be eating that much but 180 220 an active guy like you trying to build that's a you're in a perfect gastrointestinal stress you know like that kind of stuff yeah yeah I'd back off a bit but other than that you're doing fine gotcha and then does it matter as far as like the carb ratio and the fat ratio you know what I mean how there's like the perfect macro split which I don't really agree with but I don't know yeah as long as you're getting your essential fat it doesn't matter it's based it off of how you feel and the reason why I say that and I know the guys will agree with me is some people just feel better with more carbs other people feel better with more fat so that the only limiting factor is you got to get an adequate amount of fat because it's essential yeah make sure you're getting at least 100 grams so I don't know if you're tracking your fat right now or not make sure for your size your amount of calories your movement you should be 90 to 100 at least that 90 to 100 grams yeah I think I'm because I mean I I don't drink shakes I get all my protein and fats from from me and I do eat a lot of meat so I'm not sure if that matters either but I definitely get that's ideal that's ideal especially and you should be eating things like chicken thighs and having some tri-tip every now like you know feel free to eat good fatty meats because you can you can afford it all right oh man well thank you guys I appreciate it you got it man all right you know the other part of this the psychological part with people that work men and women that work hard labor is they're so used to the feeling of pushing themselves they're so used to the grind of work or whatever that they they I mean most people who are fitness minded tend to they tend to veer towards do what is tolerated and not necessarily what's ideal but these people really do it they just go and so it ends up happening to end up with like work I'm at the gym and oh I'm supposed to feel this way no and that was the gauge I use with with people who work this kind of labor I'd say how do you feel at work well man I was it was hard for me to to swing the hammer because my arms are sore so okay we have to go back you should feel better in your job not work well yeah well it's the thing is like it's it's built this sort of idea that like doing hard labor like I have to be able to compliment that hard labor with hard training in order to get stronger like it has to have that kind of same intensity when in fact to make a complimentary and actually you know be able to build and develop muscle we need that adequate amount of recovery so he's a bit of an anomaly in our society today it's just rare like so he's the opposite of the study that I've shared or where they talked about people that that that report not study but the survey they did where people report um how active they are and most people and most people consider themselves they over yeah like people that think they're very active or still they work out are still considered sedentary even because they train an hour a day every day but then they have these jobs that are sedentary so in the scheme of uh activity for the day they're extremely low they're still considered sedentary he's the opposite of that you gotta remember that if he's doing physical labor eight hours a day every day or five days a week he's very active even without his training and then you taught you add an hour or two hours of lifting a week he's more than active enough and that's still a physical stress even if the body's adapted to it and it's used to it for years it's still filling that that physical stress bucket and so scaling back if he I hope he trusts us and sticks to two days a week of anabolic because I think within a month he's going to feel and see a difference right away I had a guy once I trained he was a he played high level high school football at at a pretty high level then he got into construction afterwards he was working out four to five days a week he hired me I got him down to one day a week and then eventually went up to two days a week and he was hitting more numbers than he did in high school he couldn't believe he's like we're working out so little I'm like bro 90% of everybody I train I have them strength train and then I find ways to make them active throughout the day you're already doing that all we gotta do is make sure you eat healthy and just you're not here to add activity that's not why you're working out we're working out to just try to build a little bit of muscle and that doesn't take much doesn't take much to do that look if you like mine pump head over to minepumpfree.com and check out some of our guides we have free guides that can help almost anyone also go to instagram we have a new fitness program you pay monthly under five dollars a month you get free workouts sent right there it's all accessible on instagram every single week brand new workouts every week under five dollars a month it's at mine pump media on instagram today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong well-developed chest when I think of weak points and in areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time chest was up there with the yeah it was for me it was for me for sure I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique