 Hello everyone and welcome to the first ever sustainable earth webinar series. I'm Kelly Saunders program manager at Arizona State University is Rob and Melanie Walton. Sustainability solution service at the solution service we work with external partners to inform strategies that advance sustainability out into the world. I'm really excited today to be your co-host for this webinar. At this time, I'd like to welcome my colleague and co-host Emma Hopson. Thanks Kelly. Hi everyone, my name is Emma Hopson and I am a program manager in the Julianne Wrigley global features laboratory here at ASU. And I have the distinct pleasure of working with Wells Fargo to create sustainable earth. It's a web portal designed to engage audiences of all ages with tools and education to be more sustainable where you live, work and play. Following today's session you will be able to find a recording of today's conversation on the sustainable dash earth.org web page. Today's topic of discussion is sustainable purchasing power and practice. It's moderated by Eric Farron, senior director of marketing at the sustainable sustainability consortium where she works with members and the sustainability community in general on social and environmental impacts on consumer products. So I'm going to kick it over to you for a welcome and introduction of your panel. Hi Emma and Kelly thank you so much for introducing me again I'm Erica Farron I'm the senior director, senior director of marketing communication and development for the sustainability consortium and I'm going to share some slides here and we're going to let our other panelists introduce themselves. Let me share this. Okay. Alright, so Renee you want to introduce yourself and then we'll follow by Catherine. Sure. So hi everyone my name is Renee Eddie. I'm currently at bakery category manager for fresh time market. Prior to that I was a coffee supply chain sustainability expert, working with Fairtrade USA. So I have a lot of experience within purchasing and and supply chain sustainability. Thanks for a Catherine. My okay, it's working now my video sorry hi yes. I'm Catherine Bissell Cordova I'm executive director of Chicago Fairtrade I'll explain what that is in a little bit but I'm Renee serves on our board and invited me to be part of this today so thank you very much. Well Renee and Catherine we're so thrilled to have you really looking forward to our discussion and again, for those of you in attendance if you have questions, while we're presenting or even after we're presenting please put them in the chat we'll try to get as many as we can. So to kick this off I'm just going to go through a quick description of what the sustainability consortium is and what we do and why we care about certifications and if you're unfamiliar with us. We are a nonprofit research program that sits under ASU where the Global Futures Laboratory, and we also have staff over at the University of Arkansas and that Bob and Megan University in the Netherlands so we are mostly university staff working on a great mission together. So again we're a global organization of diverse stakeholders and we work together to use the best sustainability science that these universities have to offer to help companies make the everyday products we use better and more sustainable. So we were founded about 12 years ago. After seeing some of the stats that you see here where you see 60% of greenhouse gas emissions and two thirds of the forestation and 80% of water withdrawals are caused by the manufacturing of consumer goods. And so we were really created to help bold innovative and measurable change happen, just as soon as possible, working with the industry and nonprofits and higher ed and academia together. But we realized all those years ago that in order to make change in order to work on climate change issues, you have to incentivize and support manufacturers and their suppliers to adopt new practices and design better products, more sustainable products. We wish all companies just did it for the sake of doing it because it's good for the planet, it's good for people but we know that there are a lot of companies out there that need reasons and incentives to actually change their practices to create more sustainable consumer goods. And there's really a couple different ways that we help do that. One is we incentivize and show cost savings risk management those kind of business terms for companies. When you adopt sustainable practices you save money you create less risk, make things safer for your staff all sorts of different things. There's all sorts of reasons why companies can make more sustainable products but the number one pressure which has grown increasingly over the past couple years is consumers you people buying things. Everybody notices when you start purchasing one product or another the sales people notice it's the biggest sort of megaphone we all have is in our purchasing power or non purchasing power as well. Lots of stats, talking about why consumer products are becoming more popular with consumers and we'll get into that a little bit. I'm mostly showing the slide to show some of the impact areas that we at TSE cover and a lot of these are through ASU research. We work on things like system change and agriculture and food systems and ecological impacts for a circular economy which is obviously very popular and then human and community well being. So this is a little bit of a complicated slide but I'll talk about the theory of change here so on the left side of your screen is basically all the companies that are producing the goods that you buy so these could be farms growers manufacturers mines where whatever the product is that you're buying from cell phones to food anything that you buy is being made over there on the left side and on the right side is you the consumer purchasing these things. And in between the companies making these products and you the people buying them are the retailer and so we really work with the left side of the screen to work with suppliers and manufacturers and retailers to not only better commute communicate your sustainability progress but to basically focus on the sustainability impacts within the supply chain which ones if tackled have the greatest impact. A lot of companies are frozen they don't know where to start they don't know what sustainability issue to tackle first they don't know what makes the most sense and through the science and research that we do we sort of help them hone in and figure out what those issues are and how they can tackle them. But again, the right side of the screen, unbelievably more important every single year the one to see was founded 12 years ago, consumers are demanding sustainable products transparent ingredients. We're going to talk a little bit about why certifications are so important there. So this is an example of a supply chain that we cover there's a lot of other research behind it and I took all that out so you can really focus so this is what we call sweet and savory bakery items so muffins those kind of things so you can see. On the top left is the farm or the grower where those ingredients are grown, and then the plant that processes them so flour wheat sugar all those kind of things. dairy if you're going to include animal ingredients and then you've got more manufacturing you've got the preparing and baking the packaging. You buying them at Starbucks or wherever you're buying them or you're making them at home, eating them consuming them and the way you do with the packaging afterwards so one of the things that TSE focuses on others little orange circles that you see. We've identified particular hotspots within the supply chain that have huge sustainability issues. And if you start to measure and track and improve them they make huge progress for you as a company to make more sustainable products. So this is some of the particular sustainability issues we tackle there so animal welfare climate and energy food waste, land and ecosystems and others. You can see according to TSE research, many of the sustainability issues are in the beginning of the supply chain so where those things are grown in the ground that they're grown on in the people that work on those farms and also in the preparing and in the factories in the kitchen those kind of things so this is just a quick look at some of the work that we do here at TSE to help focus. We help measure companies measure by using things called KPIs key performance indicators so this for instance is a question we would ask the company that's producing dairy. And we're asking them, you know, in your organization how do you manage labor rights risk so labor rights, you know on a farm, the people that are working there. And so we get a lot of companies that answer a we're unable to determine they have no idea how to measure their labor rights those companies are not producing sustainable product products they're not really doing anything in the current moment to improve that. So we see that once companies actually start thinking about it and preparing to manage it, they improve it very quickly. So this is an example of one question that we answer, usually every category that we ask companies to answer has 15 of these questions. And they're actually quite difficult to answer but if you can answer them, it means that you're doing what's right and you're doing the right thing for your supply chain. Certifications really quickly and how that all feeds into what I just talked about so certifications can help track many different issues and you as a person consumer really should think about what are the issues that you really care about and then identify those certifications. And that way you can recognize them on products that you're thinking about purchasing. Certification to those of us that work in the industry means a lot of things because companies that are certified by some of these labels have done the work and the homework to meet the certification so we know that they measure at a certain level. There's two examples here wild caught fish and textiles this is from our research so in the wild caught fish category about 24% of brands that are supplying wild caught fish to wherever you buy them from. These are the ones that use Walmart anywhere have excellent transparency into their labor rights, meaning that they probably are what's called MSC certified you'll see that in the middle in the sort of darker blue. Now, MSC certified seafood is very sustainable seafood and the certification is quite rigorous so companies that can meet that certification have very sustainable seafood for you as a consumer to eat and purchase for your families. And most consumers don't know about because consumer knowledge on seafood certifications is actually pretty low and not sure why that is it's just that they're not quite interested or aware of it yet. Now the other side of the slide is textiles and textiles have all sorts of different certifications that you can pay attention to ones that you've probably heard of. In contrast to wild caught fish 73% of textile companies have certifications are aware of specifically their labor rights. And some of that is because consumers are really aware of what's going on in the clothing that they buy and they hold companies accountable. They're not quite doing that with seafood companies yet but they will. So if the seafood companies aren't ready yet. They should be because the consumers are going to come for them so this is all example of how important certifications aren't how consumer knowledge of certifications can really push companies to adopt these certifications and put them out there there's a couple other down to the bottom there's a lot of different certifications. And I know Renee and Catherine are going to sort of cover certifications from that particular point of views. I'm going to stop presenting right now and I'm going to throw it to Renee to talk a little bit about what she's working on the certifications. Great. Hello everyone. Let me share this. I'm hoping everyone can see that if not someone can send me a little message. I kind of just wanted to give a little overview of certification so I think the beginning thought of certification is really to think about who benefits from it so, you know, Eric, Eric attached on this a little bit you know it is starting with the farmers and the workers so with my experience working with Fairtrade USA, really understanding labor issues, maybe it's climate change, different factors that go into sourcing from agricultural products. And then the next benefit from certification is going to be certificate holders. So, whether it's the vendor or the broker, any intermediary within the supply chain, all the way up to market, market partners and consumers so I think the big thing to first recognize about certification is that it is a way to have a third party verify items within your supply chain. So, you know, one of the biggest challenges and opportunities within a lot of supply chains is traceability and ensuring that the product is being traced all the way from the where it's grown or where it's produced all the way out to retail sale. One of the reasons why I wanted to kind of touch on this is looking at it from different perspectives so there's the brand and vendor perspective of really making sure that you're you know sourcing from people that have great labor support within their agricultural supply chain or maybe the manufacturer that you're working with in terms of textiles is, you know, has great labor and working conditions. There's a lot of brand value but then I think from the retailer perspective in the work that I'm doing now. There's a lot of ways to leverage making decisions about which brands you source and what you choose to carry within your retail location and how that really tells your own sustainability story also from the retailer perspective. I just wanted to give a couple of stats really quick. So this is from 2020 or probably 2019 the research was done but you know sustainable products sell around 5% higher than conventional products in in three key segments so this is a lot of this is around the food industry which is where a lot of my focus has been. It was predicted that in 2021 there would be around $150 billion of sustainability sustainability minded sourced goods. And then it's about 64% of more than half of us households actually say that they buy sustainable products, which is up 4 percentage points from from a year prior. So a couple more stats for you guys about why it's important to consider sustainability and also certification within your supply chain so you know I had touched a little bit on consumers earlier so 19% report when asked that sustainability is a really important factor when they're choosing which foods to eat so Erica touched on that a little bit with seafood. You know people are really looking to understand where their food came from. Not only in terms of traceability and location but also ensuring that workers are treated fairly that the environment is doing well if it's like in a rain rainforest alliance type certification. So there's different certifications to verify different key ways to evaluate your supply chain. 79% of consumers want to know that a company is mindful of its practices and will become loyal customers when they do so. People that purchase with sustainability in mind have a tendency to become loyal, loyal followers and loyal shoppers so you know if that's a commitment to your brand if you're producing you know an item, or if that's a commitment to your store and your retail locations if you're a retailer. So almost half of consumers are more likely to trust a company's claims that they're backed up by proof and to me that's one of the biggest shout outs to certification right so there's a within the coffee industry there's a lot of conversation around direct trade versus fair trade. So really understanding what is what is something that a third party is verifying the support of something versus what is something that's just a marketing claim that that retailers or brands are making so it's kind of like the conversation around. Is it is it natural as a product as a food product or is it certified organic, you know we have a lot more faith and comfort in ensuring that what we're sourcing is certified organic. So I just kind of wanted to touch on from a business perspective some of the key functions of certifications so I have a sample of sampling of different certifications up here. And I think the key the key thing to think about from a business perspective is that you have that third party verification. It ensures traceability, whether it's all the way from source produced all the way to retail or shelf. There's tracking of financial so who paid whom for which product, and then there's auditing standards so all of these certifications have a strict checklist so to say of what they're auditing the supply chain for to ensure that they're backing up those claims that we're saying to consumers. I think another really big thing to touch on with certification is that a lot of these certifications are NGOs or nonprofits, but they're also working collaboratively in that space so in terms of a fair trade USA or for a trade international rainforest alliance with coffee. A lot of those organizations are then working with us a ID or other groups that are seeking to support producers within their supply chain. A lot of times to from retailer brand perspective, you know, perhaps something comes up that we shy away from whether it's, you know, child labor, whatever these kind of key factors that pop up within our supply chains that businesses, you know, kind of run away from telling of what's kind of going on so you know a third party certification can help verify with that and I think one of the one of the key factors is also working collaboratively with these NGOs and with these certification organizations, you know nothing is black and white and nothing is an absolute determination, you know everything is kind of a work in progress so the more effort that we put into supporting our certifications and supporting these NGOs, we're actually looking to kind of increase support within the supply chains. Another big function of that is that a lot of these certification organizations work with businesses and work with foundations to do some leveraged funding projects. You know when I was working with Fairtrade USA. There were a lot of coffee origin projects that we're working on whether it was housing or scholarships you know but really trying to work on how do we drive more incentive and more support back to the producers that are creating the products that we're selling. And then I think you know just the inherent bit of navigating supply chain risk so when you're looking at third party certifications there's a lot of things that you can, you know whether it's making sure that you have access to supply later in terms of thinking about climate change and what certifications work towards ensuring that you know the producers are being supported in their in their how they're putting into growth, or perhaps it could be something along the lines of looking for auditing data on trying to find nine performance of different fertilizers that are being used so you know where within your supply chain to start looking if there's, you know, talk of roundup that's coming in. So all different ways to kind of like navigate that supply chain risk as a business. Like I said before I think it's it's multifaceted on thinking of, you know there's the brand certification and the manufacturer working directly with the certifying bodies for their supply chain, but also for retailers you know certifications can be a great entry into how they start telling their sustainability story, you know by making those decisions when they're purchasing, you start to look at it a little bit differently so in my current role was sourcing with Bakery. One of the things that I look at is I create vendor scorecards and I analyze what what my business partners are doing working on packaging, how are they seeking to give back to the environment. What are those key decisions that I can make with purchases in my supply chain to sell to consumers that also help, you know sustainability goals as a company so I think there's a multifaceted way of kind of looking at certifications and how they support supply So that's just kind of a brief overview and then I'll pass it off to my peer Catherine to kind of touch on the Chicago fair trade perspective. Renee really quick before we hand it off we do have a question from participant wondering if the becorp certification is similar to these that you have mentioned here on the slide or how it, how it differs if you could speak to that a bit. Sure. So be corp is going to be a little different than what I have posted on the slide so be corp is going to look at overall business. So they have an auditing process, you can actually go to their website and you can start kind of self auditing your business I did that in grad school for a couple of organizations that I work with. But just to look at your business. In circular in circularity and as a whole. The other great thing about be corp you know you, it's kind of a rating system. It's very collaborative. I've heard that their support for businesses from different partners that I've worked with is amazing that it's a very collaborative network of resources of businesses that are trying to work for good so they, they very often host a lot of really great seminars for their business partners and seek to grow relationships from business to business which I think is a great thing about certification fair trade does that as well you know how do we take the, the best, best of and our best practices and share that with others to promote that benefit. So like I said, you know a lot of these things that I have up on here whether it's FSC or Rainforest Alliance. Those are looking at commodities and ingredients within the supply chain and be corp is looking at the business as a whole. So it could even have to do with, you know, the building that you're running out of how your sales supply chain works how you work with your labor within your business, whether it's retail sales or manufacturing. B Corp to me looks at, you know, kind of big broad business at a higher level than these commodity views. Right. I'll take over Renee can you stop sharing your screen please and I will share mine so hello yeah I'm, I'm as they said before I'm Catherine Bissell Cordova, or I guess I said that before. And I am director of Chicago Fair Trade. We love B Corp we partner with B Corp. Let me try to figure out how do I go back here one sec okay here we go. So yeah so I'm director of Chicago Fair Trade we are an organization that was founded in originally in 2005 as a project of Oxfam, which is the international anti poverty organization that had done a whole lot of work with fair trade in Europe over the years where it's very commonplace. But even then not that long ago I mean fair trade here in the United States as a movement is really quite new. And it was really nice to hear you Erica speaking and you know you Renee speaking but now, you know what what we really did in the beginning was just getting people to stop and think at all about their purchasing power, which was really kind of something people didn't talk about or think about much even just 15 years ago and it's really exploded. And when they did and then you know the farm to table movement became big and people did talk a lot about sustainability but really left out the labor piece a lot and that always just drove me crazy I come from a human rights worker rights background. But now it's come along so much more people's concept of what sustainability means and knowing that it means, you know, aside from the environmental piece the labor piece. So this is the Chicago fair trade. Our tagline is to educate, activate and celebrate our. Why isn't this working there we go. There you see our mission statement, and we really I'm not going to read it to you I, and you guys can read, but when you say about cultivating a community that's where we really are strongest at bringing people together who share these same values that are looking through these seals and certifications to, and people come at it from different angles some people come at it because they're very interested. Like I just said I was like the the labor right pieces really important to me it's all important to me, but that's what brought me into fair trade others come at it from an environmental angle. Others come from it from an anti trafficking angle, but we bring all these people together and build community and really try to, to make it a living breathing thing and not I mean the seal is very important to look for certification but it's so much more than that to really creating a community based on the values that those seals represent. So here you see some examples back pre coven when we would have lots of different gatherings area and fair trade dinner party with fair trade certified food products and fair trade. Now, you know we also do a lot around clothing because there is such problem with fast fashion and now ultra fast fashion and, and people buying four times as many closes they did 20 years ago that end up in landfill made by people they do little. A mending circle here at one of our business members here we had nice happy hour that we used to do quite often. Another thing that we've always really focused on to where we really see ourselves as building a movement. And really leading a movement here in the US here in Chicago fair trade where the biggest fair grassroots fair trade coalition in the US. And it's really always focused on youth leadership because we need to bring youth into a movement if you want to ensure the future of a movement and make sure it's sustainable. And also, you know a lot of times to students to their, they don't have a lot of money yet but they're just, you know we work with high school and college students but really showing them to like you're you're being pitched your whole life to become a consumer and what kind of business you want to be and if you're going to go into business what kind of business do you want to run so we work a lot with high school students here on the left there that's Whitney young high school which is Michelle Obama's alma mater it's a big deal school here in Chicago. And we've partnered with them to make them a fair trade school which means they source fair trade products they teach fair trade in their curriculum and do fair trade activities and there they were at fair trade campaigns and just a national organization, and they're sitting on the main stage about how you could be a fair trade school. While doing all of this we like to have fun too because fair trade is an alternative to a lot you know it combats a lot of problems it combats poverty wages it combats child labor and slavery forced labor, but it there, there is an alternative to these fair trade cooperatives fair trade groups that we all can support and and and have fun and be joyous and doing so. So fair trade also leads itself to a lot of great ways to bring people together and February we always do talk about chocolate and how important it is to look for a certification and when you're buying chocolate and especially in a field where there's so much child labor involved in the cacao industry. In April we focus on fashion fashion revolution is recognized and and their activities in the last week of April it was. finished fashion revolution and that is to commemorate the lives of 1138 Bangladeshi garment workers who were killed in the worst industrial accident of this century. And April 24 2013. So we bring together students we have fashion show workshops all sorts of different events. This Saturday May 8 is World Fair Trade Day it's always the second Saturday of May it's the day before Mother's Day. And every year we do a big event we do the biggest one in the US here in Chicago. This is something where we're usually we for many years we're right in the center of downtown you see on the bottom right handed there's normally a farmers and we take over and sell all fair trade products there are different business members we have 60 locally business 60 locally owned businesses who sell fair trade products they're there selling. Handing out fair trade bananas you always have someone who wants to wear the banana suit. We did a couple of years ago over to Michigan Avenue, which in Chicago is kind of the epicenter of consumerism. There's a lot of big box stores a lot of very anti fair trade non certified products being sold but so we thought let's bring it right there and really reach consumers where they are shopping and, and have done events there as well and we pop up throughout the city, throughout the year, talking to youth talking to anyone selling fair trade products talking fair trade, and kind of make sure big event I've been executive director since 2014 and that first year I did I said let's do a pop up shop and sadly in Chicago that we have a lot of fair trade businesses but not a whole lot of, we don't have a full dedicated fair trade store right now in Chicago it's harder in the bigger cities, but so we popped up and we invited our business members to participate. We just did it this year in spite of COVID. As you'll see here we used our, we always use it as a chance to educate folks here on our little sticker saying stand six feet apart we have all the fair trade principles behind the labels and certifications. Right now we are doing a three week three part long challenge. We're going to go to our website which I'll list at the end but where we've got resources there we're working with a lot of high school students where you know under the educate you can click on links these are all hyperlinked to different podcasts, films, TV shows, there's also petitions to support fair trade campaigns that are going on to support workers that are you know fair trade, and to celebrate because we always have to celebrate all of this. Oh, I had put another slide in there here you go but one thing that Renee said and that really struck me to it in talking about certification. We had this event as part of our World Fair trade day three week challenge this is an event people could attend Renee met this woman Fatima Ismael who is a leader of a large fair trade coffee cooperative in Nicaragua. And we were talking to her and saying what what do you want us to tell consumers about you know looking for the seal on the fair trade seal, and why you know we hear a lot about direct trade coffee right now. Can you tell us from a coffee farmer perspective, you know the difference and she said, you know was something that Renee touched upon that, you know, some, some, some, I'm not trying to bash everyone who's saying they're direct trade because some of them are treating the farmers well, but it's their word versus a third party certified product. And, and Fatima did not think very highly of the direct trade she said a lot of people are just taking that term and running with it, and they don't pay a fair trade premium which is something where when you buy a pound of fair trade coffee with a seal on it. In addition to the farmers getting a fair wage they get a 20 cent per pound social premium that they use that the cooperative democratically votes on what to use those, those funds for and they go from anything from childcare to school uniforms to health clinics to all sorts of things so and you know we're just always telling everyone how important it is to look for the seal, how you can live your values through it and yeah support the current kind of world you'd like to live in. Thank you for yourself. Catherine thanks so much and thank you Renee those are great. We're going to transition into the discussion and Q&A portion of this session so again attendees if you guys have questions for panelists. Please put them in the chat. We do have one question that came in while we were presenting and, and this sort of goes along with something that we've all sort of touched upon is. This is for both Renee and Catherine. You know a lot of consumers are confused by certifications some of it is marketing. Some of it are actual certifications. How do people kind of like wade through the waters on what are fake what are real. What's just a marketing ploy to get you to buy the product sort of what you know how do you guys help people kind of navigate through that. I can touch on that to start you know I think especially within the coffee industry that's a really big thing and food in general. You know there's a lot with, like I had mentioned earlier, saying that something is all natural, you know what what does that even mean, you know, saying that something. You know, I guess for me the biggest key is for education education on part of the businesses and the consumers to really teach what the seals are and what they mean. And the third party certification organizations kind of owe it to consumers to make that seal recognizable. It also drives the value back to the business. So I guess, for me that's the biggest answer is really learning to understand all the seals which is a lot for consumers I think we get into seal and logo overload, but recognizing that just calling them out as natural or direct trade is very different than fair trade or non GMO so to say so really just consumer and education. Yeah, and that's that's we do do a lot of that and we are asked a lot that a lot but yeah I mean we I always will say, you know, look, look for a seal any sort of seal is better than none. I think, you know, see if it's yes, just their own claims and their own made up name for something or if it's like a network of, of, you know, a recognized seal that's a third party certifier which Renee and I have reference both of reference but that's, you know, meaning it's not just your own claim it's it's verifiable by an audit. So, so those are the main things that we tell people. And we also will say, you know, we work a lot with art with people doing more makers products not necessarily food products and so a lot of them are not fair trade certified, but there's also the Fair Trade Federation, which is 270 business members in Canada and states, and they're a membership organization and they've met very heavily and they, and they're saying like Renee was saying before too is like kind of like with B Corp it's like the whole businesses is is committed to the principles of fair trade it's not like the product itself gets the seal, like we've been talking about but the whole organization is a member of network. And so I would you know if I am in a street fair and I see someone and they'll say fair trade and they'll say oh are you part of any fair trade network. And if they say no. I mean I'm not there to be the fair trade police but I'll think well that's weird because a principle of fair trade is promote fair trade. And so most fair, our fair trade business members they want to be involved with fair trade networks. They know each other they're members of our organization many of them are members of Fair Trade Federation so just digging a little bit and asking that even if you're a part of something of a network. I have a lot of questions coming in. If people want to learn more about certifications do you either have apps that can download websites they can visit like where can people learn more about certifications and what they need. Well I probably start with the sustainability consortium there Erica I think that would be a great resource. You know I've seen a couple of different apps pop up there was a too good to go or something for the while there's been several that have popped up. I don't know of any currently off the top of my head but if there are any that are active. I would also just look to your for me like the biggest start is looking within retailers and really looking at what you see on packaging and and kind of diving in from there. Trade magazines which if you know if you're a specific business member or if you're involved in a certain industry. I would definitely go straight to the where that where that starts so you know in coffee there's a very tight knit copy. You know, clothing, whatever your kind of industry of choices that would be kind of my start. And I would say just to add to that you know I think as buyers a person who buys things it's good to know what you truly care about and understand the certifications in that area so I think Catherine you mentioned that caring about labor rights sort of brought you to fair trade I think you know, going back to my wild caught seafood example that I showed before. Many people go into the grocery store and they want to buy wild caught salmon it looks pretty and in your mind you're like oh the salmon are like living their best life and they streams and they're happy and I'm eating them and I'm happy. There's actually a lot of potential sustainability issues with wild caught salmon that are not present in farm raised salmon which most people don't want to potentially purchase farm raised salmon because in their mind these salmon aren't out in the wild but if you care about child labor on these shipping vessels if you care about fair labor farm raised seafood sometimes might be an option for you so it's really about understanding what is important to you and what certifications around that really understanding them and looking for them. So another question we have command this is an interesting one so for students interested in going into a career and sustainable supply chains. What positions might they consider targeting out of college so I know as you has a big sustainability program, you know Renee Catherine, where do you think people should look if they want to get into the kind of work that you guys both do. There's so many places to start and I everybody that I know has had a different pathway that brought them sustainability, especially as a career so my graduate degree is from air as you in their sustainability department. So, for me it's starting a network within your school and try to understand where connections whether it's, you know, different teachers that are working in the, in the school that you're already in whether it's a business school and finding internships that way. Another good step into understanding more about sustainability within supply chains is just to start working within retailers and manufacturers in supply chain. You know, I think the way that the world is growing right now and with consumers having such an interest and holding their businesses that so accountable to having sustainability as a mission and a value for the company. Sometimes you can make a bigger ripple or a bigger wave in the water by going into an organization that maybe isn't viewed as sustainable and trying to bring in some of the values and beliefs in there so I think that there's multiple approaches. You know, right now I'm sourcing for a bakery department so you would think that. Okay, I work for a grocer that puts a lot of emphasis on organic and natural and, and all these things so we are sustainable but you know how do you look at bakery so it's understanding what can you do within your role so it's sourcing different vendors it's really understanding the supply chain that you're in so I think there's so many different avenues on how to approach that. I mean, one thing you said and I'm sure you all know this I yeah I don't I'm, I'm no more people that have opened fair trade businesses. But, but yeah I mean that there's just going to be more and more of them I mean it's it's it's been interesting for us to see you know a couple years ago people weren't talking about supply chain the way they are with coven and so a lot of these issues that we've been talking about for years are suddenly front and center and on people's mind and on consumers mind and on. So I, I like to think it's a it's a good time to that there'll be more and more jobs in the field, moving forward. I did not have a background in sustainability before I took this current job I've been in for five years so don't let that stop you, you have a passion for it. You know, pursue it, you know, even if you don't have a degree in sustainability so it'll pay off for you. Lots of questions coming in Catherine this one is for you. Let me find it. Are there any good incentives for customers to buy fair trade. I mean I think do you mean just like purse I mean I think, I think people feel wonderful when they buy fair trade I mean I, it's funny because we, you know so we have this pop up shop and it, you know we get people that would drive two hours just to shop there because they're only want to buy fair trade, but most people are just we have them in high foot traffic areas and most of them. I mean it was really never had thought about it. We were actually right next door to an outlet of a big box store that I won't name but you know and they'd come in with their shopping bags and then you know, kind of look around and see so I mean and I, people think us can't like thank like I never I haven't worked retail except in care trade but I don't think this is the case always I mean more and more people they're just thanking us for being there and I mean so I just think people I mean I'm an optimist and I think like most people do want to do some good they're happy when they realize that they're they're spending dollars can go to good, but, and though it's getting more. It's getting more well known, you know the these terms bear trade and sustainability and all this. It's still. We have a long way to go. So I think there's still a lot of people that are just getting to the point when they're starting to even like a light bulbs going on when they're realizing they can even be a part of this. I don't know if I really answer the question. There was a second part to it that sort of you know, what are the effective methods of educating customers on certification so you know Renee from fresh time market to, you know Chicago for trade sort of what are the best ways that you guys are educating your customers whether they're consumers or suppliers you know on the certification. I have 10 years in grocery retailers with another large organic market so I worked for whole foods on and off the 10 years. But for me, I think the biggest thing is starting with team members and starting with employees and management and those people that are on the frontline with customer service. You know, especially working within coffee supply chain. And the more that I got team members and employees excited about what was different about their coffee and where coffee comes from. Then the more they started having that conversation with customers so I think that that's really person to person conversation is really important you know I was a store manager for a while and you would be amazed at how many people are so frustrated that they got, you know, terrible oranges at this time of year awful strawberries and, you know you just kind of even mentioned that how far they've come to a place that was filled with drought and you know just giving them the perspective of their supply chain and eyes open up so for me it's it's word of mouth and really just starting to get people to understand where things come from and how they get to you. Yeah, I'm saying same with us and I mean we do a lot of, you know, I think I said I know I won't turn down an opportunity to come talk but you know we do a lot of, you know, teaching and high schools and you know working some to I'm getting curriculum to different teachers so that it's just becomes something that kids are taught, because right now in England we're fair trade I think it's one in every three bananas sold in England is fair trade. They are taught about fair trade in high school, every student, so they know it so they look for it so that's I mean we're always pushing to teach more and more and we're. Well I'm not allowed to say this yet but you guys don't live in Chicago we're now if I don't this is on the down low, but we have a activist member teacher and she's actually working on it's looking like her all the ninth graders in Chicago public schools receiving 14 paragraphs unfair trade and what it means starting next year, which is huge for us so so then we just go about it teaching people about it. Great helps to start all the way from the beginning like that so. Another question that came in so you know we've all been talking a lot about me know things that grow in the ground you know natural commodities. What about traceability and certifications if either of you can answer for things like synthetic fibers or plastics. I have some experience and sort of certifications in those areas why it's important to understand the transparency supply chains for those particular products rather than seafood and bananas. Wow or those things that we've been talking about. I have some experience with conversations around those so working with beverage companies on their source for 10 and really I'm starting to dive into understanding minerals, and then I have worked on a couple of projects with packaging and recyclable materials within plastics, less from the sourcing side and more from the, the output side or you know, can they be recycled are they already made from recycled materials. I think for me it's really looking at your business as a whole and really understanding the circular economy and doing a lifestyle analysis on your on your business. And then understanding the implications of things so you know you mentioned plastics and I don't know a ton about sourcing plastics, but for me it's a lot more with minerals and 10 and where those come from and mining and I know that there's a lot of movements. Like Green Biz I was having a conversation with someone that works that in the mining industry on how do they apply some of other certifications principles to mining. So there's a lot of cross collaboration across industries to kind of start broadening those conversations. I don't know if that helps, but I don't, I don't know much about there. Okay, another question in for Renee. So how does your group determines sort of what companies to help and are they mainly coming to you, or are you sort of seeking them out. So in my current role with working for fresh time in category management. You know I'm being. I get packages I get phone calls with everyone that wants to bring me their next product. So the first place that I start with any of those is really understanding kind of a basic rating on their business and just starting to ask those questions. And there are some that I seek out. You know, for example I found a waffle recently that I saw featured on an Oprah blog, and you know and I found out that this organization did great things and they were gluten free certified and I immediately reached out to the company of the waffle and said hey are you in retailers I wanted, I want to get you in. Please let me be your first. I think it goes both ways and then, you know, kind of from the certification side of it, you know businesses frequently come to the certification but then also producers come to the certification side so I know Erica touched on seafood, you know that's another industry that a lot of fish fishing communities sought out to become fair trade certified before fair trade certification of fishing communities was a thing. So it kind of goes back and forth whether it's driven from the business and consumer side or driven from needs from the producer side. And Catherine, what is the role of NGOs and nonprofits to sort of drive more sustainable business. Oh I think you're muted. Well I mean I personally think it's important kind of I mean that's kind of our, our whole existence of just because I mean, I don't know if I'm going to answer this very well. But I mean I think as I said like we're starting a movement you know so it's beyond I mean, if you just have brand saying there's this, that's good, but I mean we're is really making people feel connected it's making people have more of an impact by us working collectively, and I was working collectively to, you know with an NGO. It's important that people individually think about their consumption, but we as an organization that's how you get first people to think about it like what are what are you consuming what could you change and all it and it's always incremental is you know, like you said pick the one issue that brought you to it or you know really dive down on one thing. I often say to people like pick one product in your life like that you will switch over you can't do it all overnight necessarily pick one product. And then push people beyond that like what institutions are you involved in, for example, you know ASU is a fair trade university right, but I mean, you know where can you collectively and so that's why I think it's important for, for NGOs nonprofits to be part of this to bring to to create the movement because that's not really something I don't think that brands are going to do. And so the other side of that coin Renee you know what are, how can retailers, you know, effectively use certifications to set their sustainability goals or how do they help in that. I think you know I think that it depends on what what level of business you're looking at you know so to kind of answer this from my re with my retailer hat on. I'm a retailer, you know I start with where I'm sourcing sourcing products from so you know by reviewing some of these certifications and looking at what they stand for and starting to look for products that carry those seals. You know I'm starting to then speak to the mission and the values of myself as a retailer and what I'm choosing to you know represent the world. And it also gives a way to start, you know, measuring KPIs and measuring impact. So, you know, if you look at, for example, private label coffee is being sourced from somewhere. So, the retailer can then look at what is the volume of fair trade copy that they're buying that certified and how many people's lives are that affecting and start to really start to have those KPIs. And I think for you know for those brands that are relying on that you know it gives them a the traceability of looking at their supply chain and really understanding where things come from and how they're sourced and how they give back to the community but you know there's also kind of this. This piece of values behind most of the certifications so I think by choosing which certification you start with as a business, you know you're really speaking to what your business goals within sustainability are so maybe it's certain SDGs or, you know, sustainability sustainable development goals that you're looking to support. So really trying to align what are these certifications. Again, and then how do you use your business to go through it. We probably have just a minute left for us all that kind of leave a closing thought Catherine any closing thoughts based on all we've discussed that everybody in attendance should really take away thinking about certifications. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, you're not. They can be confusing there's a lot of them pick one learn about that one pick another one you know don't. Or as I like you know pick pick the issue that matters most to you, or, or pick one product to start somewhere incremental it's not going to happen overnight but it's. But it's the future so we to go. Any closing thoughts on certifications. Yeah, I think just from the business perspective. Again, you know start small and figure out where where do you begin you know I think. Erica you touched on this in your opening it's so easy to get overwhelmed as a business when you're trying to make decisions on where you even start with sustainability. I also suggest you know look from within look at your own, your own four walls and your employees and really start to understand how are you guiding your business for your own labor practices diversity, and start from the ground up and and just look to make better, better decisions as a business I think the more that we get behind those and the more of our stories that we tell for as businesses, you know the more that we just grow the movements. Yeah, that's great it seems like the theme running for all of this is really, you know educate yourself on what's out there what certifications are out there. I can tell you working in sustainability I get a text daily from someone that's like can I recycle this like literally they text me every single day. And most of the time the answer is no, but it's really good like do do your research you know working in marketing communication in 2019 I probably got three calls a week from reporters asking us to comment on the straws. And that was a big deal if you will remember the straws there's still a big deal and straws are a big deal but there may be bigger deals in the plastics world and you don't really educate yourself understand the sustainability issues, figure out what you care about what companies are doing to support, you know, those issues and purchase from those companies and stop purchasing from the ones that don't they will notice I promise you. I want to think. Oh, Renee, go ahead. I just you what you just said just really the star straws comment you know, I think that nothing can be valued more than really doing a life cycle analysis of your business and looking at it holistically. You know consumer perception maybe that the straw is the worst thing in the world for the business when you look at a materiality study and the full business and you might find out that it's you can make more of a impact by just having that support you know you never know what those benefits and rewards are until you really dive into that and have some support with that through third party. Or you may find the new plastic lid that replaces the straw uses more plastic, you know, you never know what you're going to find. So, we can do a whole webinar on straws. So, Catherine Renee just want to thank you both great and super valuable perspectives and thank you for letting us hold this webinar and we'll turn it back over to Emma. Thanks so much. Thank you all for joining us today and a special thank you to Erica Renee and Catherine for that very informative and engaging discussion and certainly appreciate it. Our next installment in the sustainable earth webinar series is on Tuesday, July 13 at 10am Arizona time, so mark your calendars and be on the lookout for that next invitation to your email. In the meantime, you can visit sustainable dash earth.org to discover how you can advance sustainability where you live working play. So on the portal when you get there, you can find items such as lesson plan sustainable innovation and you've actually have also have access to free custom curated courses, specifically for sustainable earth visitors, where you can earn a micro potential and various sustainability topics such as circular economy, sustainable supply chains and sustainability reporting. So we hope you found value not only from today's discussion but also in what sustainable earth is doing and help it further inspires you to take action in your neighborhood. We hope you all have a great rest of your week and we look forward to seeing you at the next sustainable earth webinar series on Tuesday, July 13. Thank you everyone.