 Good morning, Paul. I'm not sure if you're you're muted. I don't know if you were trying to answer or not Oh, I just wanted to say hello. I saw your your Ted talk. I really liked it Yeah, I was trying to say hello. No, I was muted Well, good morning. Good morning, and I'm eating my breakfast here. Yeah Turn for our fourth heart heat wave this summer Where are you located? California up by Reading, California, you're ready. Okay. Yeah, it's been Probably one half of the of all of our days in the summer have been over a hundred Wow With four times or heat ways where it goes over 110 for three or four days. Yeah is that Alter you're thinking at all about Of course, you're you're rooted your school is there too, right? Right? Yeah Has it also also you're thinking about whether you'll be able to stay in that location Has an altered but it we've Alicia and I have many discussions about Let me stay where we are. Yeah, and I Might be done guy, I don't know what's going on there. Oh, you're gonna try to show you something John Show John the garden. Yeah, so Alicia Loves the garden And well bushed it there in our great mind right here, and that's one of her gardens And so We have it on drip system, but Hopefully the aquifer holds up over time and we'll see okay You're filing in my apologies for being late. I decided my machine was so sluggish. I would reboot and then the reboot thing happened So, how is everybody did you all sort everything out? Yes, I'll done Jerry also. Thank you Cool love that Love that So Paul thanks for introducing yourself on the list I appreciate that that was that was fun and I'm wondering if I Didn't put the we didn't I don't think we were pointing to the spreadsheet this morning for signing up for check-in So let's go back to the the old normal protocol. I think and Paul if you'd like to start off our soft on the check-ins then we'll go Doug and the class And you're muted. I'm not quite sure what a check-in is so I'll pass for a couple times So I can get an idea of what it means. It sounds good It's basically we're just asking what kinds of things in your life to feel like they're relevant to this open global mind project and how you know, and then Often somebody will say something and we'll be like, oh, that's really interesting. You should talk to so-and-so or how about this or Okay, I'll say this then because last week there was Emphasis was on climate change. So we have twice in the last three years had Climate change really just not twice more than twice really hitting our area Three years ago Where we live it hardly ever snows it like maybe once every two years will have a half-inch of snow for the night and it'll be all melted off at 10 o'clock in the morning and A couple of winters ago It started to snow and we go, oh, that's nice and It kept snowing and in the middle of the night the dog started barking I went out open the front door like every 40 seconds out here. It's this and We had seven inches of heavy wet snow and we live in an area of live oak which is Deciduous oak so the leaves are I mean not deciduous ever green oak so that the leaves are on and it just broke Branches all Everything was coming down. It was it was just massive and And then you had the sense that in the summertime it's all gonna dry out it is gonna be just You know like I told me to talk about lotter fuel. This is elevator fuel. It was just it's whole place and we spent Eight months of our life hauling brush and It was the first time where climate change comes and just wipes out your whole plan of what your year is going to be You are suddenly just dealing With this one night thing that just suddenly you have to deal with and And then two years ago of these the sister they lost everything in the campfire the paradise fire the And they just barely got out alive and Paradise is still reeling from trying to get built back and This year with you know, they should not have spent a Couple of weeks putting shade cloths over our garden And it's the sort of thing they're going to climate change comes and smacks you you suddenly realize Oh this whole thing is putting lives on hold. It is A big huge detail from where you thought you were going into just your day filled with coping stuff so That's my check in that's my happy check in here for the end so In three days, I'm going to the coast to escape our fourth heatwave and spend five days where it's just 60 degrees every day About 110 the next few days. Oh man, that sounds like you're good. It's a good escape and One of I think your magical powers, which I hope we can help sort of express through OGM is noticing how nature works and Articulating patterns for working with nature for a sort of cooperating with nature to make things work And I'm sure that extraordinary events like the one you just described throw that like throw a wrench into that But I think that that there's a There's a light understanding of how nature and ecosystems work in business even though business is busy adopting the metaphors heavily And I think Deepening our understanding of those things and then turning it into like well, what does that mean? We do might be really super useful in these in these trying times. Yeah, I think one of the big things that Is slowly seeping into the whole consciousness is the role of insurance that There's kind of tipping point when the insurance companies are just going No, we are not insuring a condo on the ocean We're not insuring houses in wild power prone areas. We're not insuring Houses that are three feet above the sea level and there's just So anyway Thanks, Paul. Let's go Doug Klaus Stacey Well, I'm almost about to pass but I think I'll talk anyway I'm part of Five groups that cover the landscape so to speak with between economic Silicon Valley philosophy and governance And none of them seem to be willing to step up to the idea that climate change is actually happening now And we have to do something So that gets me thinking a lot and I've come up with it something which I mentioned briefly last week And that is in the current circumstances people come up with ideas of things to do like oh, let's do solar panels Or let's go to EVs that will help solve the problem, but they don't scale to real solutions So I've thought maybe that whole method is wrong What if we start with the worst case scenario and not the worst because the worst would be asteroids in nuclear war But short of that Where temperature continues to climb and we're not able to really come to grips with it if we take that worst-case scenario Can we find holes in it anything that could happen that could prevent that worst-case scenario from actually happening? That would surface a few things that would be plausible targets of actual effort and we get away from The let a thousand flowers bloom approach that we're doing right now that seems to lead to dead end after dead end So that's been on my mind then I'm working on distributing chapter one of my book garden world politics And that's been fun to do so that's made Thanks, Doug. Are you familiar with Jim Bendell's work on deep adaptation? Yes How does that hit you? It's been a while, but I mean anything that has deep in it Promises getting beneath the surface of our current thinking and I think that's really worthwhile He did a book launch event online yesterday the day before April was on it, but I was not I was not on it But it looked pretty interesting and they had Oh, I'm totally spacing on her name, but a woman who's been Ken has mentioned her several times on the call totally spacing on her name, but a Woman who's now 92 years old and has been doing a lot of things about change that seemed really interesting Joanna Macy Yes, Joanna Macy. Thank you very much Gil That's perfect So let's go Let's go cloud Klaus Pete Gill They are picking on Biling on but that was just saying I don't think people have really read just that that there are several tipping points In in clear view, right? One is the collapse of the jet stream because the Arctic ice fields have reduced in size to the point where they cannot energize the Both the sea currents and the air currents and the impact that we'll have because this is the new normal and from here on out our weather patterns will become increasingly erratic and and that's that's enormously dangerous for agriculture for going food to the fall sorts of things and the other thing is the release of methane from the from the from the What you can see is a permafrost permafrost, right? I mean that's those those two things alone could finish us now And I mean it when if the ocean currents that come to a slowdown The US east coast will see drastically different timers and so will the Europeans be and We are we are just so distracted and so busy where you know people even still reject the most basic parts of climate change that We can't even process, you know, but what what is really ahead of us here because this is a new normal and We are not we're not we haven't come to grips with the old normal yet Yeah, anyway, did you want to report out on projects later cherry understood that right? Yeah, and and we'll have time to talk about the food system Project and things like that and about our call on the 15th. So we'll come back to that. Yeah, okay Yeah, so that was my observation that we are in in in collective denial It's the same down saying as this vaccines, right the 4th of July weekend for sure Cost another spike minutes inevitable that there is another spike in infections coming up And there is a 99% Success rate in vaccinated people do not have to go to the 99% of all people going to the are or dying from this thing I'm not vaccinated and there is an argument on LinkedIn About vaccinations and people continuously talk against Vaccinations but ignoring or refusing to accept Not this does that the statistical evidence that is all around them so if we can't if we can't get people to come to grips with Reality that hits you right in the face and then how do you then deal with something that is more abstract to understand this climate changing? Did everybody see the news this morning that Japan has gone into lockdown through August 22 basically through the whole Olympiad There would be no spectators at the Olympics Because they've had a spike a bad covid spike whose timing could not be worse So let's go Pete Gil Scott I'll pass today. Thanks. Thanks Pete I Gail you're you're up. Yeah, can we just a second here? Yep, Pete just blew my timing I was I was actually playing the past today, but in response to Doug and Klaus I feel unable to do that I've been I've been observing mood a lot lately You know the background moods that I live in people live in and That's a conversation for another time, but I've observed that over the last couple of weeks when I check in on my own mood. It's unsettled That's sort of the dominant feature and it's unsettled at many levels It's obviously you know the the state of the world that guys have just been talking about down to where I am in my life and the Uncertainties that Jane and I are dealing with around health and real estate and other things And that was interesting enough, but I'm also in a bunch of groups like Doug like this And I'm finding there that that's that mood is showing up in a lot of the people in my circle and I think it's a very important Acknowledgement of Something very different. This is not anxiety This is not specific concerns. It's kind of a background of thing Everything's loose on deck the ground is not firm underneath us. We don't know where things are going And it's it's driven home for me My friend Shauncey Bell has been attacking problem-solving for a long time Finds it an extremely naive way to orient to the world you say problem. I think solution. Let's fix this We are in what he would call a mess I would think of as a mess of messes that are so tangled That they don't lend themselves to the problem-solving mindset And you know and Doug you kind of alluded to that let's do electric cars Let's do solar collectors looks at this and that but you know that doesn't begin to touch it I've been lately reading Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry for the future. I don't know if people have seen that It's a it's an opus about climate change. It's a future history of the world unfolding over the next bunch of decades And I started it a couple months ago and I couldn't get past the first two chapters because it was so dark Just couldn't get there's like you know catastrophe in India People dropping like flies and I just thought I don't I don't need this right now And I finally have dipped back into it in the last few days and I can't put it down And in a way, it's This is an early review because I haven't finished the book yet, but in a way it's the most comprehensive Exploration into this phenomenon that we are living in it's unfolding before us in anything I've seen it's you know It's a work of fiction. There's characters. There's narrative. There's situations It's also he's done deep homework on climate science on agricultural science on finance on Cryptocurrency on political arrangements. I mean, it's it's a deeply researched book and what he's done. I think is bring together More of the threads of this mess in one place So I've seen anybody do except maybe Alex Stefan So I commend that to people and that is sort of deepening and enriching my mood of unsettlement and my sense that we are Deeply fucked not just because of the permafrost He he asserts in the book that the that the that the permafrost bubble could release as much methane as all the cattle on earth would release in 600 years Just for a sense of may not be the right numbers, but just kind of a sense of scale Disruptive change and in the face of that and all the traditional human inability to see long-term trends or understand exponential change And as we've seen with Kobe to coordinate effectively and consistently Around the world across, you know different dimensions, you know, we've actually a lot of that's done very well and some of it has not but the new phenomenon is a the concerted disinformation effort from the the the GQP Which is attacking science democracy solidarity and a number of other things that we really depend on And that's you know, that's wild card Arguing about technology solutions and so forth and debating geoengineering or not. That's one thing But this is sort of you know, it's a bunch of guys running around constantly kicking out the pillars from underneath the foundation And I don't know if we've ever seen that before We're certainly not at this scale and So that's where I am, you know, I'm sort of looking at that trying to understand where we are And how to think not in a let's fix this problem mode, but it's this, you know pervasive disorder In the human world system So I'm not a cherry camper this morning and it's interesting because mostly this mood of unsettlement has been Has been with a kind of calm I Mostly have not been anxious. This is remark. It's mostly been very dispassion saying oh, this is where we are now Isn't that interesting what might unfold from this? It's been more of a mood of curiosity than of anxiety This morning after reading on another 10 chapters last night, I'm not so calm. That's all I got Well, let's we all despair at some point in the next month or so either Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson will be the first billionaire taking a suborbital flight. That should all cheer us up Yeah Yeah, and I hadn't heard of GQP yet. I like that hadn't made my radar yet So thank you for that. There is a thought in my brain that says that the GOP has become a suicide cult Yeah, the GQP for people haven't seen it is is is the absorbing of Q and on into the GOP So the QP is the shorthand for that And there's just a piece in the I guess it was the Times this morning about a Republican congressman in Michigan who was one of one of the ten who voted for impeachment two of whom were from Michigan and He's getting a shit beat out of him by his constituencies for being disloyal to the president or perhaps treasonous Mm-hmm, and you know and there's some collection of comments from you know reasonable people who could be your neighbor If you lived somewhere other than Berkeley So, of course Being familiar with the German experience in how this all worked. This is how the Nazis consolidated their power in the 30s Yeah, because anybody who did not follow The reality is laid out by the party was being kicked out and and I mean My family story my grandpa got beaten almost to death for talking up in a speaking up in a public forum Contrary to being the speaker. So this is happening in plain sight, right? I mean, I think it's incredibly unfolding in front of our eyes and yeah, I don't think people really understand what the interest is is because You're basically establishing a fascist party that is able to dominate US politics, right? So look at this from a perspective of it off of Europeans or Asians will watch this happening saying just has never ended well You know anytime This is an issue here. Yeah, and you know if you if you thank you for raising that reference clouds Because if you look back at at Goebbels playbook You can see that we are playing that playbook or they you know, they among us are playing that playbook it's not it was never lost on me that Donald J. Trump who is not known as a great reader Had a book at his bedside for years called mine comp And it was you know, just sort of past it passed frivolously in the press in 2015 2016 But for me, I made note of that and I'm watching I'm watching that game here The Nazi party for those of you who remember started out as a fringe crazy disparaged by the mainstream party Had some losses stayed at it and Then in a moment of political crisis Hitler was appointed legally appointed Chancellor of Germany and From them it took class what six months It was fast So we're so we're in this phenomenon that's very difficult. I'm aside from the politics of it It's very difficult for you humans to understand we it's very hard for us to see discontinuity It's very hard for us to see exponential change. It's very hard for us to understand that there are step functions Both in science and history things don't always go gradually they go gradually and then suddenly Something significant can happen that you know that you're unprepared for So, you know Flores has been talking a lot about sort of breaking the impulse to try to predict The future and to develop instead an ability to to you know, sort of a tune to what's moving Anticipate what might be happening find some emotional fortitude with which to stand in the midst of this because we all panic that don't help So, you know, how do we Be grounded and focused and clear and effective in the face of what could be looming Terror and you know anxiety at best or terror worst You know Was it was a poem who spoke first, I'm sorry I missed your name, you know talked about the insurance issue It's not just that insurers won't insure new things in certain areas What happens if people who've been living somewhere for 20 years all of a sudden have their insurance taken out from under them You know, what does that do economically but also does it do psychologically? And one of my one of the questions I have in the background is why aren't Reinsurance companies all over us about all this kind of stuff and I believe it's their business model I think that their contracts were new annually and they just make more margin when the risks are higher So so far they don't seem to be that upset and I might be entirely wrong here, but They're starting but they're slow. They're very very slow. The reinsurance companies have been ahead of the story Swiss re and Greenpeace held a conference together and I think 1995 Talking about climate risk, but the reinsurers are not bringing down the hammer on the insurers and insurers on bringing down the hammer on people And from policy perspective we the people through the federal government have backed up Risk underwriting in the most risky places, you know, we have federal flood insurance that lets you rebuild in the floodplain after you've been flooded out Well, that's you know, that's basically I think the technical term is insane Yeah, but politically it's very hard to say to somebody you can't have your house where you want to have your house politically Because good, you know, you try to do that you get voted out and yeah, there you go So I'm I'm uncharacteristically Pessimistic this morning. It's not where I usually hang out So thanks for bringing out the best in me chair. Thanks, Gil. There will be there will be counselors in the hallway after I'm reminded of an incident that happened a little over a year ago Which was I had a weekly a weekly lunchtime chat with people at a design firm nearby where I have a desk Called Ziva and we had a mind-meld one week when this pandemic thing was kind of just in the air and the at the end of That call one of our decisions was let's tell everybody Let's make sure we notify everybody to take their laptops home because you just don't know what's going to happen There was no mind-meld the following Monday because complete lockdown happened between One Monday and the next and complete lockdown was not on our radar was not a possibility It was not a thing we thought would happen. No, you know, we didn't envision that happening And so here we are telling lots of stories of Brushes in our own lives and last fire season. I was worried for Doug and for several other OGMers who live, you know in fire territories And and Jay Golden and his family had to basically escape from Ashland, Oregon Because that you know two towns nearby were burned to the ground Yeah, yeah, so so this could happen very quickly as you say we don't understand Exponential change and my mind keeps going back to a what causes people to maybe change their mind Greta Thunberg has been really really really angry at us for a long time and it's gotten a lot of a lot of attention But I don't think she's gotten a lot of satisfaction from everybody suddenly stepping up to war footing to deal with this So that's not happening. But then my other answer generally is like systemic interventions Yeah, like how do we do? How do we do? How do we push everywhere on every lever? In order to make some change and of course who is we Jerry? That's right We use we very loosely, but it represents many different things, you know, the light. Let me just add the other the The right upfront personal dimension of this for Jane and me is that I mentioned real estate this the city of Berkeley and its infinite wisdom has decided that there's a whole bunch of stuff We need to need to do to our house to make it legal and I can do the backstory on that another time And that's raised for us the question of do we invest in this property? To bring it up to not just what they want, but what we would want if this is the place that we're going to age in place You know, which is one option or do we sell this house? You know, maybe maybe not the peak of the market but high in the market and buy something else That's more suitable to us at this point in our lives and then that walks us right into the question of where You know, do we do it here where we have community, but it's very expensive. Do we do it somewhere else? If so where fires earthquakes etc etc etc, you know, who's your neighbors? That you're gonna rely on when you move someplace and it's it's a very challenging exploration To think through both the things that we know and as you say the things that we can't even anticipate Exactly, so that's sort of you know, that's at the ground That's that that's the personal dimension of the unsettlement and then all the others in the obvious larger world. So That's my check-in Thanks, go appreciate it. Yeah Let's go Scott Michael John and Scott and Michael you're both off video, but I think you can jump in Yeah, I'll jump in Hmm a lot of things come to mind First one was that I had jumped in with those systems thinking thing a couple weeks ago and I owe a follow-up to that which I will do in a week or two in the future which shows how What I described in my little five-minute University of Distinctions systems of parts and holes relationships and perspectives It sounds too simple And everybody wants a framework Give me the framework that's gonna that we just plug our information into and this will solve the problem and the problem is that Every framework is built from these four things and every framework comes from a perspective and so Trying to find I've never found a framework that was exactly right for my situation I found frameworks that were really interesting and I tried them and they helped But it didn't mean that it fit perfectly and what I want to be able to show in the next couple of weeks I'll do another little five-minute University is how The four elements of every thought every framework every mental model every idea that's ever been created And I do believe this is true based on working with this for over a year and watching the people working on it for 20 years That these bits and pieces The value in them is is that you can Deconstruct and reconstruct in your own way. So I'll show kind of how that goes I guess my thoughts For what it's worth on on gill's comments It just feels like people are Trying to find some semblance of control in whatever way they can and A lot of people are not willing to just look and say This is what is there. This is what I see Because it can be hard. Like what am I supposed to do about that? Well, first you have to be able to just look at it and say This is what's there And I think one of the problems we're having is that global is too big You know, we're we're on a human scale here And you can't think globally not really You know, you think you can but It's it's I believe that it's actually too big for an individual to To really wrap their heads around because of the level of complexity. And so how do you get people? To be able to do things on a scale that they Can handle which is a lot of what we're seeing in these areas of control that are you know, they might be Not wearing a mask or wearing a mask. Well, it's something I can control You know, it's very very local But it did gill. I I thought you had an interesting comment. It's something I've been struggling with for a while um And you know and even directly related to this group. It's an area I've been struggling with so The things that you're that you're dealing with about your residents and what are you going to do with that and Let's say you decide to move or you don't decide to move What choices do you have and I'm thinking? You have a choice How many people don't have a choice or don't feel like they have a choice and a lot of the things I'm I'm hearing in this in In this group and and some others in week after week is it's coming from a place of Richness and abundance that we don't even recognize Well, can I do I move here? Do I move there? Do I move do I stay with all the friends that I have in the house that I have? Or do I move to a new house in in a way that's going to be better in In many dimensions because I'm going to choose it and yet we we just seem to think like Skies falling everything's horrible and it's like well If you really look at it compared to The rest of the world and in many places just the fact that you have a place to live and you have a choice To choose this problem area versus that problem area. I think is Is something worth considering so that's my check in for the week Um, Scott, thank you for grounding us that way. Um, you're right and And uh, it's hard It's hard to hold all the different things that are happening at the same time And then when it starts hitting you individually personally, it's even harder because you've got to shift and bend and Fold and try to adapt to what's going on um So I think a large piece of what's going to happen over the next decade or two is likely to be mental and social Meaning how we deal with what's happening Uh, how we make it through how we help others how we connect others Uh, and then our interconnections Sort of the the interdependencies that that we form and hold to will be really important Um, Michael john pill will keep my check in short. Um, because my connection's not great. I hope I'm You're back. You're back home in brooklyn though, right? I thought you'd be back up on past Right. Well, I just got off a red eye, which is going to be part of my check in so I'm liable to be more even more incoherent than usual So I'll I'll just say that and thanks, Michael Um, john phil julian Good morning, uh, I'm once again very appreciative of You know the this group and how it's uh sobering, but at the same time oddly Reassuring in that in the way in the sense that What I'm hearing from people is well, you know, that you're definitely in touch that I don't I'm not hearing the kind of escapist Stuff that that fills up the internet and and television. So uh, and that's oddly reassuring That we're all seeing how bad it is And the choice for me is you know As of today or this week is kind of like this You heard the you heard the objections to uh critical race theory And teaching that in schools and I thought well, you know something that I did And know how to do well Is put together something like a lesson plan, you know a teaching tool that's so What if I put together a teaching tool that's that put together five instances of uh significant discrimination With at least one but more likely two That were white on white, you know, like the irish coming to america You know being very poor and Diseased and too many and arriving suddenly and so on so I mean you can find these instances of people doing horrific things to their their People who are like them because they're not like them enough And then you can see that shifting as people who are less like them show up And then all of a sudden now the irish are us because now we've got these other folks arriving who are Who are less like us? So I'm thinking of putting a unit like that together and threading it into that concept I had of the bubble breaker browser putting the two together and That that's something that draws on my expertise At the same time Given the urgency of everything and what i'm hearing, you know, I have to sort of like Well, you know, like you have a go bag if you get the earthquake warning So I have a you know a thought in my head, you know at some point i'm going to hear from the group And maybe from people like paul and claus get your toes in this particular soil You know and start doing that even though that's not what you do and not what not your expertise because that's the the bleeding edge of The response to climate change and we don't have time to teach people your new curriculum. So i'm kind of listening to both of those discussions And appreciating them even though they're very sober and i've also got a copy of the ministry of the future If I get too optimistic Okay, thanks I get the feeling we're eating at the restaurant at the end of the universe Hanging out for the show or something like that, but we need to figure out how to how to get busy And scott, I meant to ask when you were describing dsrp To us I'm really interested in how useful frameworks like that are made more useful So that we can actually apply them so that they become part of the conversation so that They come in and I don't know what the cabarras has done and what you're doing with it, but Just really interested in figuring out how How does dsrp work work as an operational lens in tools and in conversations and in process and all of that And I imagine go ahead. Oh, yeah, it's it's um It's a great question. I hope to address that in that that five minute university That i'll do that will kind of extend it a bit. Um, I think it's similar to The scientific method. I'm just pulling that out of the air in the sense that It's a process or it's a set of tools that are very very simple and understandable by anyone That can then be applied to simple and complex problems And I think the problem that is is that you if I were to give you the scientific method steps You might discount them as well. Yeah Okay, of course as you know, you come up with a guess and then you Make a test and then you check the test and then you Make another test and try again and get closer and it's like, oh, it's just too simple and what I'll try to show you is how The value in it is in its simplicity and flexibility and the challenge in it is We want the next level up or the next two levels up where they've been combined into something That applies to our situation and that's why I think frameworks and mental models and and those sorts of things Are so prolific Because they feel like it's a shortcut someone's already figured this out for me Okay, great. I can apply this and I'm not saying they don't have value They do have value and they would be the first people to say that but it's not The deconstructed and reconstructed what do you do when the framework doesn't work? That is where DSRP can help you take it apart and say, oh, I understand What this is missing for me. So that's a simple answer Cool. Thanks Scott. So I look forward to to your next five many university and then seeing what we do with that Um, we're getting close to the halfway mark in the call I think we can make actually the full round of check-ins. It would be um, phil julian mark and me So, yeah, thank you every much for sorry. Thank you everyone for um, for sharing. It is definitely a sobering conversation Um, one thing that has stood out to me a lot recently in the conversations. I'm having is that we as individuals and that we as organizations Are very short-sighted and I think we're aware of that But we need to be short-sighted because of the reality of the situation we're in we need to pay bills we need to to turn like make revenue whatever it is I'm generally very interested in figuring out how We make it an easier environment for people to think long-term for people to think eco-friendly looking at systems like Denmark or or Sweden that are very eco-friendly and kind of Working back from there to see what we can do as a society to Introduce and invite more long-term thinking Thanks. Oh julian mark and me Oh, I've been having a good week getting back to work after recovering And then I got to say this call has been somewhat depressing in addition to the fact that I woke up dizzy So I'm afraid of a relapse Not much of a check and I just wanted to make one comment to fill about long-term thinking And in the world of tech it used to be that there was long-term thinking If you look at when the disk drive just the hardest started getting developed and how long it took to become a product And in today's tech world that would never happen because everything is driven by quarters not by five year terms I attribute this to the rise of the mba so it's uh It's a loss that we were able to do long-term thinking as opposed to needing to develop something Uh, other than that not much to do While trying to figure out if I'm relapsing or not Um on which I wish you really well julian were yeah Love for you. Not to not to go back into that um mark tebow Bonjour Sorry to hear that julian pure You'll recall quickly um I've been I've been really enjoying many conversations that I've had with some with some of you of you guys here But also on a different um topic of still, you know, looking at how to create individual models In the amazon to both preserve indigenous traditional knowledge and uh All the systems that I've supported these people for thousands of years and I'm uh one one project that I've been um Promoting is one that would See the creation of a cooperative And listed in that cooperative uh Creative lab and a learning institute and still applying integral models and uh, it's It's very exciting to see Um a lot of positive response to that so I might I might get that one financed pretty soon. I might be That sounds great. I would love to see that. Thank you. Yeah, thanks mark And something just said triggered. I would love to see the intersection of Paul's thinking With the srp for example like like Do they fit nicely does dsrp help explain or organize Some of what paul's done or do they are they in conflict? They sort of Not work with each other. I think that that sort of Mashing up would be really really interesting and possibly quite useful um So I'm I'm also struck by our somber tone today and I I think that there's um Something in the air and I mean that sort of metaphorically and almost literally in the sense of Uh, there's just really bad climate effects hitting all over the place Amid all the other kinds of crises that we're in the middle of so We're trying to figure that out. Um I I of course am really interested in how ogm can help with this. So for example One of the kinds of things like john was talking about telling stories. I'm really interested in telling stories that might help That might help Talk to some of the people that are keeping us from having these conversations and cooperating. How do we reach other people? Uh across the divide. How do we how do we connect and make friends in some way? um, I'm putting a link to a pitch that I recorded Uh to raise funds for open global mind Uh, and then uh, it's four minutes long. It's not that long. So after the call if you feel like it watch this Well, and then a couple a couple notes on it One is uh, pete had a phenomenal suggestion just a couple days ago, uh, which I like Yes done at the end of this pitch You'll see that i'm trying to raise funds to create some fellowships in ogm And that's probably a wrong orientation a better orientation Is to stand up projects and then to fund projects which are time bound which have deliverables and That led me down a whole rabbit hole about uh, okay ours sort of objectives and key results and trying to figure out how to create a cycle of of kind of Interesting challenges that are a little bit beyond our reach with funding so that the people who are actually doing the work Can that can make a living from doing this that then lather rinse repeat that that are that are well selected Uh, and that move up move these things forward so that as part of our work We are making materials uh more useful in the world And so forth Uh, and then the second thing is if you can think of anybody I should go pitch So the idea is not to send everybody this blanket video and right this minute I'm not thinking of just posting this video in public although at some point shortly. I probably will do a version of this That's tuned toward a patreon style pitch for ogm But if you know of any people who would be responsive to this kind of message interested in funding us Let me know because uh, I am I am on a quest to try to figure out how to Turn ogm into something that's uh More than a weekly salon with a bunch of subgroups that are meeting excitedly about different kinds of topics And I think we're we're kind of In that process at this point So one of the reasons for turning the second half of this call Into a quest into what projects do we have or what projects would we like to have is kind of that is to start framing How do we how do we designate describe bound And then later kind of Turn into actual project plans the kinds of projects that ogm could be engaged in and For example, and pete you'll correct me if this is a bad example, but there's a group that meets fridays called flotilla Which is kind of a space between sovereigns between projects that is trying to figure out interoperability and compatibility of business models and other sorts of linkages between the different projects and that feels like a project to me even though it's not It's not sort of bounded and labeled as such but that feels to me like it could lead to really interesting insights about interoperability and other things that are applicable in other places And that to me feels like one of one of many kinds of things we're working on so Do you mind pete if I sort of turn it over to you to reflect on that? Am I am I right in that quest? I think you've described it correctly. Yes. I don't know how you would turn it into a project or I don't see a You know an easy project to pull out of that Um, well the pieces of it that seem project like are like if you wind up with interoperability Method specs processes insights protocols any of the above like what how you know How do you connect massive to to trove in a fruitful way is a is an output, right? And that would be a lovely thing to have and then uh, and then can we generalize that? What parts of that are generalizable who else has done this in the world because there's lots of efforts at interoperability That are out there, you know, how do those things fit together? So so I think there's a couple pieces of that that that feel to me like they're describable frameable Possibly fundable, etc. It makes sense. Yeah, and it would be nice to have some funds to actually go do that and focus on it. I think Phil Just to say quickly. I think I'm sorry my videos up from a bit under the weather today. Um But just to say quickly kind of what we're looking for right now is The projects or ideas that people are passionate about From there, we'd like to put out a kind of call to actually the community See who's interested. Um, bring those groups together in separate meetings and Pete's put together a list of the things sovereigns need to be set up So we'd like to start working on that but also identify the skill sets And the time availability within those groups so that we can put together one of these High functioning liquid teams around these different projects. Um, that's just the general kind of call right now Yeah Thanks, Phil And I think that's a good moment to go back to claus and talk about the regenerative regenerating the food system project Which has a call coming up on the 15th and what else is going on around that because there's some interesting documents There's a there's a channel on matter most around this conversation There's some documents shared in there that are really quite interesting and uh, I'll pass it off to you claus Yeah, I think we finally found the sweet spot to where um, we're not creating redundancies or Have yet another effort, but we found something that is actually a gap that is actually something That needs to be inserted into these efforts of regeneration and recovering our our environment And we have narrowed this down to the idea of an innovation spoke rich and and and how this is supposed to work is that there are increasing numbers of Of coups that are coming in impact investors investment funds Coups that are well financed actually looking for engagement of places to engage um Coups that have very specific projects that They like to to hold out across but what is missing Is the understanding that each community is unique each community has unique actors and unique environmental and economic scenarios That that they need to to work with him So the idea that we are putting up and will be presenting next week Thursday and and david witzel just Put out the updated Invitation cherry mean it just needs to insert the so What we want to to to do there is explain how We need to insert Know-how into the community To help the community see itself, right? So it's a mapping exercise and In the context of food is A food system is the same anywhere whether you serve kimchi or sauerkraut. It doesn't matter, right? I mean the same principles apply There is a farmer who needs an aggregator who needs a logistics provider who needs a processor who needs a wholesaler a retailer before it ends up On the on the finals on the on the eaters plate and With that in mind, we want to see what does the community already have to offer what's already in there That that could be accelerated. What is missing is, you know, is there a group of farmers? And they miss pork rich so they don't coordinate. They don't have market intelligence to work with so it's this this kind of Of assessment and I haven't laid out yet how to really speak to it But we'll we'll go through that next week So this idea really resonates. Um, I Had a conversation yesterday. This Joshua who is leading the seeds of tau Effort within the GRC group And he's like on fire. We need we'll do this city What we what what we discussed would be to set up To set up a training program where you basically initiate Someone from within the community Into the basic principles of here's how a food system works Here are the components that you need to To have in place to move from farm to fork within your community. Here are some ideas that you can Oh, here are existing resources, you know that you can call upon so the needs assessment The this mapping exercise would basically identify behind the scene to a group of of us Where we where we concentrate expertise What this picture is telling us We we could insert here to help and to assist So so think of it as a meta structure that is linked with resources We need to find access to finances and and and engage with Impact investment groups who are who are interested in investing in this type of of activity And then route that to to the Uh Poker we call it but to the impact specialist I think there's a couple other words we we were thinking of to explain that So this person this this individual inside the community Becomes a conduit, you know our first assessing his own community And then and then calling on resources For specific projects Um so The and and when I talked with Joshua Who has been doing has been operating in this field for some time trying to develop And help people who want to engage in regenerative agriculture He could see that instantly because a lot of energy is being Is being wasted right now by By not being very specific in how you go into a community Another experience was when you are working And the other thing is the the focus of our energy is in the base of pyramid economy Because that's where the economy has basically failed right The when we are talking when we are looking at food deserts in inner cities and rural communities That is a market failure where where Where we need the energy to be inserted Um class. Thank you. Um anybody with questions thoughts suggestions um, and my own thinking is I'm realizing just listening to this and thinking about the call on the 15th Paul if there's a way you could join that call, I'll make sure that you see the invite But I think your perspective on the call will be super super interesting and useful as well Um, because all of the work that you've done seems very related Any other thoughts Pete Yeah, I've I've got a I don't know a couple questions. Um, uh, so What's the what's the agenda of the call on the 15th? What what is the accomplishment that's going to come out of that? Yeah, and We're going to use uh, we're going to use a format that we used, uh a little less than a month ago Uh called a case clinic which comes from the theory you groups In which one person is the client Of a small circle of people who are trying to hold the idea and then offer feedback on it Uh, it has a it's a timed process that worked really well the first time and the first time Sam was the the client and this time Klaus is going to be the client on the 15th and we can sort of repeat the the the process if we like it for other people as client Um, and Klaus you've you've got a pretty good map of a generic map of this structure from Farm to fork And what I what I understood you to say was We've got that structure Well, you know, we'll draw it or or document it or something like that and then you can take that structure and look at a local food system with a person in the community that you found And say okay, here's here's some gaps in your food structure that we can help you fill with You know backup resources that we've got Um, did I kind of capture that right? Yeah, the we will need to engage in some marketing to to Make this program known but Trc is already a pretty good platform. I mean they they reach pretty not just in the u.s. But they have an international reach And the so so we will need to attract communities who See who who are who have already a nucleus of people interested to build out their local food system And then provide them with with a training that a lot then On the mapping tool that we need to set up and develop And we need to do that within a pilot project because you can't do it in in in the abstract And and and then at the same time We already have you know a list of potential resources. We would like to contact. I mean there is the double year food buck A corp that basically Has figured out how to develop a local currency Without calling it that you know, there's the intentional communities when there are There are a number of corps that bring in really interesting ideas well thought out well laid out and and Already in a mature stage So so if that makes sense, I'm I need to really Prepare myself for this discussion to keep this concise and and and and structured Um, but what we would do for example when I talked with Joshua yesterday because he wanted to see how this how could this work for me I said, you know, when we hand let's say we have you know Several communities where there is this initiative underway. You would need someone in the background To to guide these these groups or individuals through the process that means You may you will have regular meetings check-ins Where they report out what the experience is so far you provide them this guidance on what to look for next And and who to talk to within their community until We collectively stitch this picture together. So there's room for more specialist Individuals who like a Joshua who will work on a platform to guide location-based teams through In that platform in turn will link will be linked and connected with resources That we can bring to the community level Make sense What what I'd like to see Maybe what what you could use internally and externally So I I don't know that I would be internal or external but What I would like to see is a project plan. So the project plan would be something like Our our longer term vision is to have a a structure of Mapped food system Prototype, you know a plan Here's a here's a typical food system and we want to have You know over the next A couple years we want to have a hundred food systems mapped through this system and For every system that we map we can help that system Find its its weaknesses finds its disconnections and help them Network with other other localities to close the gaps right network with us and our and our benefactors and things like that So that's kind of the overall vision and then the you know It sounds like one of the next steps or some of the next steps or something like We've identified a pilot locality where We're going to develop this map and then map that locality and then find some participants in the local community so Having all of that stuff you you're really good at rattling it off having all of that stuff written down and starting to chunk it into You know months and weeks and sprints and all that kind of stuff It would be super helpful for me to understand where you're going and probably helpful for everybody Right. Yeah, and I'm of course. I'm talking myself through the process right because we're This week But that's the whole idea right I mean this theory you Prototyping process meaning is you're making it as you go along, you know, you don't attempt to design something Uh, thinking this is it. You know, you you design a shell 50 60 completion And then you fill in the spaces as you go through the prototyping process and I think that's sort of Completely agree The the lesson that that I learned Is that as you do that um If you make an artifact a written artifact of you know, here's what I think the plan is right now Or here, you know, a couple of us have come together. Here's what I think the plan is right now And then I've called that I I put that plan in a wiki right and I at the very top it says this is a living plan expected to change And as it changes you you the the plan literally changes and in a good wiki you can go back and say You know, oh the plan got we messed this this plan up. We have to go back. We rewind a couple weeks and start over Um, you can do that in a good wiki um so Having that having everybody on the same page is the way that we used to say it in wiki speak Everybody is able to look at a plan and go, you know, this is not I understand This is what you said, but this is what I was thinking. Let's let's work on this this chunk of it and come to an agreement that's externalized and Memorialized and also like you said active and continuing Continuing to evolve over time another another characteristic of wiki pages is that they're never completed They're they're always evolving and and growing and bubbling and that's You know, that's what you want with the plan too. I I want to for the for the room for the people on the recording I want to say that While I am super interested in eating Um, and I'm super interested in having a healthy planet Food systems is not the thing that I grew up to to engineer Or or help other people engineer My meta skills are around helping people engineer stuff. So a food system is a good thing to help engineer It occurs to me as we enter this time of change and calamity and disruption that People like me people like all of us are going to have to get better at going Okay We've had to decentralize Uh, we've had to make The scope of our world Not like i'm a citizen of the globe and everything is wonderful and somebody else takes the care of all the all the crap That makes it so that I can have You know avocados and grapes and and carrots and and tofu on my plate, you know, I In you can see pretty pretty Not too far in the future, you know a decade or two decades or or your kids or your grandkids are going to have to be doing bits and Both nuts and bolts of you know, how do I make sure that me and my family Has food on the table has water, you know in the in the the storage bin Is able to drink and keep themselves Healthy and you know keep sickness away and all that kind of stuff. I think we're entering a time where either The the happy path is that we figure out how to deconstruct these massive systems down to much more local systems that A team of 20 or 30 or 40 people that that are your neighbors can go. Yeah, we're taking care of food In in this part of you know in in this community Not, you know, somebody else is taking care of the food for us Um, we either figure out how to do that kind of an affirmatively like friendly like this is the right way to design systems these hyperscale systems are not good or climate and and and bad guys and You know calamity makes it so that we have to do that. Um, uh, and we don't have a choice Either way, I think What's cool about class is he's doing a good job at kind of going. Okay. Here's the problem. Here's the scope and scale Here's what I can do to start digging into it. The class happens to be a subject matter expert on food systems Um, thank goodness. We have a food systems subject matter expert, but I think more and more of us are going to have to go Um, you know, it was it was cool that I had a career You know in whatever I do, but now we're going to have to do some Making sure that uh, we're we're fed and healthy and and can drink and we're secure and things like that And not just in our community, but in the communities around us and the communities around them. So I feel like the the opposite of the Of the anxiety thing is let's roll up our sleeves and start building stuff and building stuff and local systems where Uh, we're taking care of each other and we're taking care of our part of the planet and we're helping other people We're building patterns that we can transmit to other parts of the world Yeah, thank you, pete. Um couple comments to that I I'm I'm Going as part as I can right because I'm I'm like soaking up What's happening in the part of fields. So I'm On the advisory the council for the united nations food systems summit that's happening. There's this This summit in true and actually it's come. I mean, it's uh, it's all it's rolling out now They're working on the presentation To the general secretary this fall I'm working with sir, you know with citizen climate lobby and business climate leaders Where we're just working on a new webinar that's titled Farm the fork food the community food systems. And so we're bringing in examples and so on And and so it's really hard for me to take to that to take a deep dive into technical issues that that Overwhelm me trying to figure out how to you know, move curses around on the screen Because I'm not good at that So so I will need some help, you know with with With doing these these high-level strategic plans And Jordan has done, you know a wonderful job. Uh, I'm going to just post it here to to to to write down what we have talked about and seen so far and He's completely on board, you know to support this and find funding and engage with us on this But in regards to scale Right now the economy the food system has organized itself into huge structures, you know where you have like I mean enormous Corporate monolith who own Dozens and dozens of sub companies that they're engaged in when you think of nestly and cola cola and Tyson and all these corpse And they they they basically obliterate the economy at the base you know, so So the economy at the base has to decentralize But they still need global support structures You just use it makes no sense to invent tools and processes and And in other resources at location level over and over right so those should be built At a make at a megastructure But then become available in modular form at the location Based on need right and not every community will need every module. They will need pieces to put together So that's sort of the idea. So it's still big. It still requires You know heavy lifting behind the scene to make that community level To make that work at community level and there are so many ideas out there To jumpstart this right when you think of inner city food systems. It's all out there already It's just not connected Um, Doug, did you want to jump in? You're muted by the way Okay, can you hear me now? Yes. Okay There's a general model. I think in our Thinking which is if we come up with a good idea We can get people to align with it I'm going to try and go in a totally different direction and back to heraclitus who says strife is the mother of all things I think here in Sonoma county One of the problems we have is all the good agricultural land is either vineyards or houses already built And in order to do the kind of Of a local project that we need we're going to have to somehow take that land back and repurpose it That means conflict Now the advantage of conflict is it could help create identity for the project Uh, it's a A complex painful birthing process But the idea that we can just come up with a good idea and the idea will compel people to align I think is wrong Um, I was actually going to head in a similar direction not quite the same but um a couple things I wanted to put in the conversation one is Uh, I'm feeling stronger and stronger that the right answer is not to go in and say hey Just do this just do this you got to do this but rather to ask people what they need and then try to be helpful And that One of the things we can do is we can organize extremely handy toolkits stories other kinds of things that will that people can just sort of absorb and start to put to work And then we can have experts on call not on you know on tap not on top is saying To figure out how to how to do this, but I think there's a lot of ways in which how we approach because Klaus you could invent the perfect innovation broker role and toolkit But if communities are just not interested in some outsider coming in telling them what to do There will be there will be no traction. There will be no answers So I think I think even just adoption is interesting second slightly separate thought is It feels like the the mapping part of the innovation broker's role is its own little sub project and an interesting one at that and I think and I I've grown fond of and scared of Pete's everything as a project framework Where you just unpack stuff and you figure out like who's in charge. What's the goal? You know how we're going to do it what's involved And so it feels like the mapping piece of this is really important and we've got some Pro mappers, you know in our in our extended community who could come in and tackle that in interesting ways And there's already a whole bunch of mapping that's openly available So what does somebody already start with for whatever community? Like it doesn't nobody starting from scratch because there's a bunch of stuff already done How might we catalyze this worldwide and then a third thought is like is this a service core? role Is this like the peace core or the california conservation core or something else? I mean it feels sort of like that and And does that politicize it does that make it better worse? Is this sort of a grass rootsy distributed piece core thing? I don't know does that conversation help and then last note we spent our entire time We're coming up on the end of the call. We spent the entire time on the first project Which is fine, but I'd love to dig up sort of more projects Let's just do that I think next call because we're pretty far down down this right now, but class Thoughts on any of that Yeah, let me just give you one example in my conversation with the United Nations team There's a French guy who who came up with the idea of what what he calls twin cities so he he has He wants to take let's say a city in Germany Which has limited capacity to get carbon credits because they're already efficient, you know, but they're still They are unable to reduce the energy consumption and so on. They want to buy carbon offsets connect this city with a community in Africa or South America And bring someone over who then does an assessment locally To see how can we help you to restore your soil and to to reduce your carbon footprint? And so the idea with the Innovations broker instantly resonated with him. So we are now having follow-up conversations. How can we Introduce this and bake this into the outcomes of the food systems summit So where you have cities in in in first world countries link up with cities In third world countries and transfer know-how primarily and resources in terms of tools and funding. So so This could go Into into many directions It it's the the core idea Is it really resonates we just have to figure out how to how to make it practical? um I like everything about that with one exception and then back to Doug which is and I think I heard this in conversation with Mark Tebow and a couple other people which was uh, hey like in latin america We've been doing meal bars, which is intercropping for a couple thousand years How are suddenly all these like fancy things fashionable and you're all excited now But in the meantime you stamped out all the stuff that we've done and sort of are appropriating it now How does that work? So I think that that rather than having the first worlders come into the third worlders and tell them what to do And how to fix things like sort of a respectful balance and swapping of what they know It seems to me like much more appropriate Because a lot of these cultures have had age old ways of actually maintaining the commons that they were forced off of Because they were turned into plantations because whatever just look at colonialism India was perfectly self-sufficient for food and fabric and all that was the The place where the world's best fabric came from all the language of fabric calico pajamas are all Words from india And then the british roge basically turned it into a cotton plantation So and starvation and all that so so I think that that a big piece of how we come in Is about intent approach respect dignity Opening of conversations in some way which may require Another sub project. I don't know but but I like this conversation. Uh, so dug then till A dug you muted And you're still muted. I think it's had might have been up for I think dug you left your hand flying. Go ahead. Go ahead Phil I just wanted to say I think this is a very rich conversation. Um, and as pete mentioned I do think we should try to figure out What the project world map looks like for this. I think it could possibly be A deliverable after the u theory The the session on the 15th Around all right, let's let's format this and the dr. Jordan put together. It's fantastic But I think this could be a kind of case for us internally to see Right, like what do projects like this need like what do other projects need? What are the learnings from this because I think that mapping piece Is pretty huge across the board with any project we set up understanding who's active in the space What they're doing what their projects are I think mapping in and of itself could be a project or a guild that we string up Yes, love that totally agree. Um mark divo Yes, thank you. Um, have you guys heard of green green cities of california? Does not ring a bell off hand No, so it's not Rings bell for me I'm sorry Rings a bell for me Yes, I'm pretty sure you would It would be right up your alley. Yeah Yeah, I thought I thought it was we were we were members I'm sorry. We were members for a while in california. You mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah anyhow mark We're gonna say about it. Well, I was going to say, you know to to to reflect on claus comments about twin cities I think I think the Most effective way to help Western cities Is them to connect with those cities that have done already something and demonstrated that they could reduce whether it is Waste or turn to more, you know energy efficiencies and I thought that the How green cities of california started was with that intention So it started with I think I remember seven cities And the role of how I got to know that was through the Full circle fund This is a great organization And we put the the website together and you know help them figure out how to to to communicate to some To be more efficient in sharing best practices So that's that's probably a I would think the best way to do that rather than just Come to the south and say hey, you know We know how to do things We never screwed up That's right. Look at us. We haven't we've fixed everything Um, thanks mark great idea um Anyone else thoughts comments on this particular particular topic just quickly to add on mark. There's uh Bigger than green cities california is the urban sustainability Network, which is north america wide a couple hundred cities very systematic mutual support programs And the intro and the ickley the international cities league for something I forget what the inaccurate acronym breaks out to icle.org So those are a couple of many things that are like that and it It really points to the opportunities for mutual aid and support And I would echo the you know the The weakness of the model that says hi, we're from the united states. We're here to help you and we're here to help When there's so much already there And so and so much for us to learn From even the poorest of the poor So something that is that is more open and exploratory and reciprocal It's it makes it even juicier for me not to diminish class what you're offering to bring But I think there might be some value when when we approach communities to say what what do you need? What do you what do you want and what do you really care about? And let the conversation unfold from that And if if the food logistics systems do fail the people who will survive over the following decade will be the people who are Subsistence farmers and who understand how to make food locally Um, they'll be okay Unless of course climate change has rendered their territory infertile or in some other way like useless, which is where we're heading Um, I do feel like we sort of need some counseling after this call I would love just to do a little bit of decompression debriefing In a couple minutes. We have left on the call just thoughts about About where we are and they don't have to be shiny positive thoughts because I think that that you know OGM itself we're trying to figure out how to do this better And how this all fits together and so forth go ahead paul Yeah, I'm a big one on paradigm that that's kind of where my interest is and in Thomas coon's book structure scientific revolutions who started coined the term paradigm He was talking about how normal science keeps building on the current Theories and every now and then the uncovers something that doesn't fit in and he called them discrepant events And it just keeps going and these discrepant events Keep coming up until somebody comes up with a whole different way Of explaining it and that's the whole paradigm shift and today In this conversation about climate change I'm aware of new big discrepancies that are developing which could be actually They do very fertile conversion One is when they're talking about the gqp When I think about that group I think of two big things vaccinations and Climate change denial and both of those two things are getting Hit with reality more and more and more and Does there come a point when everybody who's sort of in That way of thinking kind of goes. Oh You know I I've My my paradigm is wrong. It has to shift and so there could be a very fertile time when What we call partisan politics changes into something very different and the other one that really fascinates me is You know when you think about climate change probably the biggest thing that could be done is reducing human population and That's what's happening People just aren't having as many kids and I am just totally baffled by the The concern people have about oh my god the people aren't having kids We got to have come up with a way to have so that people have more kids and I'm Kind of what paradigm are they coming from? That they can't see that this is actually a really good thing So anyway, those are two discrepancies that I think could turn into very fertile new opportunities It's Paul I mean and I agree with all that and we are at this moment of God-willing paradigm change And if we do this right, it's a Chosen preferred paradigm shift rather than forced which is kind of what happens in history Anyone else a bit off topic, but I would just Put out the prompt. I know we didn't get to talk about many other projects today But if anything comes up during the week or all of the weekend Feel free to just start and matter most and we can we can add it to our chat for next week Sounds great. Thanks Phil Um with that it feels like a good moment to wrap our call for this week. So, um Thank you for being here. We have the channel for for thinking out loud about this Julian did you want to jump in? Uh, no, did I raise my hand? No, you just unmuted and I'm like I'm still trying to get I'm still trying to get my camera to work. So oh shoot. Oh, we've got your minifig so Your van go minifig um So anyway, so thank you all very much really appreciate it Thank you. Good day. Bye. Bye