 The other thing that happened was that when the U.S. government printed 13 trillion dollars, people kind of, well, all of a sudden they've immediately diluted the dollar by 20 or 30%. Tim Draper is a billionaire venture capitalist and outspoken Bitcoin bull. He reportedly owns nearly 30,000 Bitcoins, which would be worth almost half a billion dollars today. I think the pandemic is one thing. It's a horrible thing, a million people are going to die from the pandemic, but 135 million people are going to die from starvation because of the government's reaction to the pandemic. The UN has warned that the threat of famine due to conflict, climate change and COVID-19 could reach biblical proportions without immediate action. In this video, Draper explores how tokenization can optimize from delivery systems to combat global hunger. He also predicts that the ongoing pandemic may accelerate the timeline of his famous Bitcoin to $250,000 projection. This interview is brought to you by Rachel Wolfson, staff writer for Cointelegraph and host of the Crypto Chick podcast. Hi, Tim. How are you? Hi, Rachel. Good to see you again. Yeah, good to see you as well. Thank you again for taking the time to chat with me today for Cointelegraph. Great. I'm happy to. I'm quarantining right now. I went away on a weekend trip and my wife has sent me to quarantine. Nice. Sounds fun. I want to get your thoughts on this because I think that this whole COVID-19 pandemic is kind of pushing blockchain and kind of making it go a little bit more mainstream because we need digitalization right now. So do you think that because of the pandemic, we're seeing more opportunities in the blockchain and DLT space? Yeah. It's interesting. A couple of things have happened with the pandemic. In some, some people say it's condensed the time, but that we've, for us to adopt new technologies. And so people are stuck in place and they're saying, yeah, I want to try see what VR is like. I'm going to use this for remote medicine. I have to use it for remote education. So some of these things that we've been backing over time have gotten a lot of attention during the pandemic and grown very quickly because people have been stuck in place. The other thing that happened was that when the US government printed 13 trillion dollars, people kind of, well, all of a sudden they've immediately diluted the dollar by 20 or 30 percent. That's a real shock to the system. And people looked and said, well, wait, where do I put money? And, you know, do I put it in the old fashioned way? Do I put it into gold? Or do I put it into this Bitcoin where it's a great store of value? And so a lot of people have said, well, hey, I want to move it to Bitcoin. So I think a couple of different things have happened. I think the pandemic is one thing. It's a horrible thing. A million people are going to die from the pandemic. But 135 million people are going to die from starvation because of the government's reaction to the pandemic, because of the lockdowns. They tell you you can't travel. You can't be in restaurants or bars or hotels or whatever. And all of a sudden that lockdown shuts off all these supply chains around the world. And so people are starving because our government and other governments just decided they would lockdown. Whenever there's a crisis, there's a great opportunity to do something extraordinary. When there was a financial crisis, Satoshi Nakamoto came up with Bitcoin. And I think as we're able to put more restriction, more accounting systems and whatever around the blockchain, we're going to be able to use Bitcoin interchangeably with dollars. And I think the world is going to be much better up. I was speaking with someone yesterday for an interview for an article I'm writing today, but they were saying that a ship has been at the dock and they haven't been able to complete the transaction with the bill of lading because it's manual. So this is where tokenization comes in. In order for people to get cargo like food, if we have tokenized bills of lading, for instance, that food can get delivered to where it needs to be much faster. So I think tokenization is going to really advance especially right now. What are your thoughts on that? I think you're absolutely right. And I think that the world's going from this tribal world to a global world. And some governments are resisting that change. As we become more global, the world becomes wealthier. The world becomes healthier. We live longer and happier lives. Whenever a government kind of puts down a border or creates non-tariff barriers or real tariff barriers, that hurts their own citizens as much as it hurts the rest of the world. So I think that yes, tokenizing a shipment, tokenizing product, can work around some of those antiquated systems and you can get the food delivered from one place to another. Right. I mean, just that whole tokenization use case. We're seeing it in real estate. We're seeing it in global shipping. We're seeing it in everything that you're taking these items of value and now they can be transferred over the internet, which is so useful right now for these industries like real estate and global shipping. Yeah, absolutely. And that tokenization is very exciting because in the case of real estate, you could buy a piece of my house. I could tokenize my real estate and people could say, oh, that's interesting real estate. I'd like to own a piece of that. And they don't have to buy the whole thing. And it sort of separates the renter from the owner in kind of a nice way. Yeah, and tokenization and shipping, of course, is a great way for people to, well, own containers to keep track of all the IoT, all of the internet of things that are going around in a shipping world. I think you're going to see some extraordinary breakthroughs there, not just shipping, but any kind of logistics is going to have a lot of... I agree. Another thing that we're seeing is also the rise of DeFi. I want to know your thoughts on that. What do you think about DeFi? Is it a bubble or is this something that's actually going to drive adoption? No, it had to happen. People were sitting on their Bitcoin or their other cryptocurrencies just watching as they appreciated value. But instead of having that money being put to use and you want your money constantly put to use. And so, I mean, I ultimately want to defy the venture capital business where I raise a fund just in Bitcoin, I invest it just in Bitcoin, the entrepreneurs pay their employees and supply all in Bitcoin, and all the accounting through that whole system should be on the blockchain. And my relationship with the entrepreneur and my relationship with my investors, my LPs, can all be on a smart contract so that if there's a big winner or something, it will be distributed into a bunch of different Bitcoin wallets. I think that eventually will happen. Right now, the accounting isn't set up, and so it will be over time. So the first things that were happening were things like, I can lend my Bitcoin, I can borrow Bitcoin, I can hedge my Bitcoin, I can operate. So these are the early defy that are coming along now. Longer term, all the accounting, the taxes, the whole thing can be done on Bitcoin. People can pay their taxes on Bitcoin, the government can collect without having to collect. I mean, it seems like a natural for them. Right. I mean, the way I look at defy is it's setting the stage, in my opinion, for what I'm seeing as enterprise defy. So we're going to start seeing, like you said, tokenized invoices. That's actually a form of enterprise defy, just exchanging that value all via a blockchain network. But I think defy right now is it's still early and it's setting the stage for enterprises to start using defy in those ways. Yeah, not just enterprises. Well, yeah, eventually the enterprises will come in and start tokenizing and using it in lots of different ways. That was the promise of a lot of these early entrepreneurial token companies. But I think the corporate world wasn't ready for it. You know, it's interesting, a lot of the time the waves sweep through and the wave usually starts with a consumer and then it moves to the enterprise and then it moves to government enterprises. And I think they move in that order. And the consumer has been very active and enjoying using Bitcoin. If I had to send you money right now, I mean, what am I going to do? Call my bank and ask them to wire you some money or you'd have to figure out what your account number is. I mean, if it's Bitcoin, I can just show you my QR code and you show me yours and I send you the money. Right, yeah. It's incredible. And I prefer Bitcoin over fiat. So, you know, just hopefully the content... Right, me too. Yeah, obviously, right. It's just, you know, what's interesting though is that I'm seeing a lot of the younger generation as well. You know, I'm here in Maui and so some people, the younger ones, they have Bitcoin, they know about it. But then you've got the older retired people on the island and, you know, they know about Bitcoin, but they don't want to get involved. They think it's too risky. And so it's interesting, you know, because clearly they know about it, but they don't want to touch it. Yeah. And if you give the choice of here's $12,000 or one Bitcoin to somebody who's under 35, most of them will take the Bitcoin. If they're over 35, most of them will take the dollars. And I think that that, you know, as the years go on, the move will be all toward Bitcoin. You know, people, older people, I know I'm older, but older people are slower to adapt to new things. And they're saying, no, no, I like holding on to my current... I mean, if you go further back, there are people who say, no, I keep all my cash in my mattress. And if you go further back than that, it's like, no, I have to have the gold. Or before that, it's like, I have these shells and they are worth something. And this is just yet another leap for mankind. It's a it's an anthropological leap where we're going to move to something that is open and transparent and trusted and decentralized. And it's just going to be better than the old one. And it'll take time for the old ways to die off. I mean, I think for years, buggy whip manufacturers still made money even after the automobile was created. But, you know, eventually they went out of business. And, and that's going to be true of fiat currencies. Right. Exactly. And are you still sticking by your prediction about, I think it was 250K by 2025 or 2022, I can't remember. Yeah. It's 2022, end of 2022 or beginning of 2023. And there may have been a little contraction. So maybe a little earlier, you know, because of the COVID thing. But, but that 250,000 is really based on a 5% market share in currencies. And I think that's easily achievable as more women start using Bitcoin and as, since they control 80% of the retail spending. I think that, I mean, it's, it's a really interesting thing that there used to be one in 15 wallets that women, Bitcoin wallets that women held. And now it's one in 10 and a better one in 12 or something. And it's, it's advancing. And as women start using those wallets, they'll realize, hey, this is easier. Why did I use dollars? Why am I still bothering with dollars? I know I moved as much of my money as I felt fair to do into Bitcoin and some other cryptocurrencies, just knowing that that's kind of the way it's moving. Right. Definitely. And so, yeah, I think it'll certainly hit that. And a lot of people are thinking that that was a little too conservative. Yeah. Well, we'll see. I mean, we're, we're almost in 2021. So that's exciting. Hopefully, things will get better. Awesome. Thank you so much, Tim. Bye, Rachel. Bye. Thank you.