 Okay. I guess we're live. Good morning everyone. This is a joint meeting with both the House and the Senate Ag committees with folks from Roe, Vermont, as well as Nalpha, Vermont. And I would like to welcome all of you to our, to our joint meeting and to start with I guess we ought to introduce ourselves and, and you folks can, the guests can introduce themselves as they, as they speak and, and get on, get on the program. I'm Bobby Starr and I chair the Senate Ag committee. Hi, Chris Pearson, Senator from Chittenden County Vice Chair of the Senate Ag committee. Welcome. Hi, I'm Anthony Paleta, excuse me, Anthony Paleta Washington County Senate. Corey Parent, Franklin County. I'm glad you caught on there. We also have Brian Calamore as a member, but he had to go report to another committee on on a bill or a few minutes ago. Caroline, would you like to introduce your House members or have them introduce themselves? Sure. Thanks, Bobby. I'm Representative Caroline Partridge and I represent the towns of Athens, Brooklyn, Grafton, part of Northwest Minster, all of Rockingham and my hometown of Windham. And I'll go to Rodney. And in Rodney Graham, I represent Orange One District, which is Williamstown, Washington, Orange, Corinth, Bereshire, and Chelsea. All right. And Tom Bach? I'm Representative Tom Bach. I represent the towns of Chester and over Baltimore and North Franklin. Thanks, Tom. Terry? I'm Representative Terry Norris. I am in the Addison-Rotland District, towns of Benson, Orwell, Shoram, and... All right. John O'Brien? Good morning. I'm John O'Brien. I represent Royalton and my hometown Pundridge. I'm going to mute the member from Ovine there. Also, it's hometown of Rovermont's Caroline Gordon. As you may be able to tell, John is a sheep farmer. All right. Oh my gosh. Who else is here? Vicki? Good morning. I'm Representative Vicki Strong from Albany and I represent seven towns in Orleans, Caledonia counties. Right, Heather? Good morning, all. Heather Supernaut. I represent Windsor 401, which is the towns of Barnard, Pomfret, Quiche, and West Hartford. Thanks, Heather and Henry. Excuse me, Henry. Hi there. Henry Pearl. I represent Danville, Peacham, and Cabot. Great. Thank you. So we're all set. Well, again, welcome everybody. And the first person that I would like to call on is Caroline Gordon, who's Caroline is the director, legislative director for Royal Vermont and appears before us from time to time on a host of ag issues. So good morning, Caroline, and welcome. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to our first virtual Small Farm Action Day Meet and Greet with legislators. So I'm really just here to set the stage a little bit. I appreciate all the senators and representatives' time to speak with us here today. The farmers followed an open invitation to use this as a forum to present what's issues that arise for them really personally on their farms, and whether they are within or without, beyond our policy priorities of Royal Vermont and NOFA Vermont. So also welcome Maddie Kempner here with me today. And so what you hear from the farmers today will, may or may not reflect some of our policy priorities. It's really a chance for farmers to engage in advocacy, learn about the legislative process, and hopefully build some relationships with you all. So with that, I pass it on and I'll also have to excuse myself. I will pop in and out of the meeting, but I have also my colleague Graham Unens Rufen aft here from Royal Vermont, if necessary to field question. And otherwise, Maddie will be also here to help guide through the event. But without further ado, thank you all for coming and enjoy your presentations. Thank you, Caroline. Caroline, Steven, lastly, Cedar Mountain Farm, are you with us? Yes, I am here. Yep. Chair Starr and Madam Chair Partridge, senators and representatives of the Ag and Forestry committees. I'm grateful for this opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Steven Leslie, along with my wife, Kerry Goualt, operate Cedar Mountain Farm, a 24 Jersey Cal Dairy and one and a half acre no-till CSA Market Garden established in the Upper Valley in 1996. We are also partners in Cobb Hill Cheese. Both our businesses are located at Cobb Hill Co housing in Heartland. I want to talk with you today about soil health management systems. Why I believe this approach can revitalize our agricultural economy while providing immediate and long term solutions to the challenges of climate change. Using the nutrient management plan of the Natural Resources Conservation Service as a model, technical assistance can help land managers develop soil health plans. The aim is for long term adoption of practices with commensurate long term financial and technical incentives. At Cedar Mountain Farm, we have a successful track record of working with federal and state funded programs. For instance, it was through a collaboration with the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board in tandem with the Upper Valley Land Trust that Kerry and I were able to purchase an affordable unit and have access to arable land at Cobb Hill. We also participated in the Farm Viability Program, which helped us to determine our actual cost of production for pricing our products. Later, we engaged with the Equip Program completing a series of projects over a 10-year contract that included infrastructure for intensive management grazing, enhanced irrigation capacity for our Market Garden, covered manure storage facility, compost stacking pad, and more. Having ourselves been beneficiaries of collaboration with these partners, we see great potential for enhancing the promotion of healthy soil practices more broadly. The strategy is to build out on the already existing programs of the state federal and NGO advocates in order to coordinate and amplify their collective impact exponentially. The offices of the regional conservation districts could serve as administration centers. Higher yields and enhanced resilience could be achieved through adopting practices such as cover cropping, crop rotations, composting, mulching, perennial crops, and agroforestry, adaptive multi-species grazing, organic reduced tillage and no-till practices, adaptable to market gardens, broad acre crops, and all livestock operations. Investing in the help land managers to adopt these organic regenerative practices have proven to be the most cost effective way to supply carbon. The five basic principles of soil health developed by the NRCS provide a rubric. All practices should be seen as comprising a synergy of effects to restore the totality of landscape functions on the farm or forest ecosystem. And these incentives would no longer be granted piecemeal for specific practices, rather participants would be aided to develop comprehensive plans. This is the path for creating a spiral of regeneration. Soil health management systems would allow for the land manager to apply for assistance on a variety of practices under a single contract. This would increase enrollment and voluntary compliance. In 2019, the average farm income in the U.S. was negative $1,200. We cannot expect farmers with annual operating debt and long-term debt to be innovators and risk takers. Dairy farmers in particular must invest enormous amounts of capital in equipment, infrastructure, inputs, and labor. I think we all agree that incentives are a favorable approach over regulations. Successful pilot projects and farm and farmer training are proven methods for accelerating the adoption of healthy soil practices. Each land manager would have a team of technical assistants performing regular site visits to monitor and assist in implementation. Site characteristics and social context would be taken into account to ensure inequitable and just transition toward organic regenerative management. Since it is not practical to measure carbon sequestration, water quality, and other enhanced functions on every farm every year, UVMs should get additional funding to effect trials and monitor pilot farms to establish median averages resulting from the implement of soil health plans. Farmers will be expected to document all practices. Human civilization is completely dependent on ecosystem services. Let's ensure that payment for ecological services is not restricted to cleaner water and carbon sequestration. We need a holistic measure of all the ecological, social, and economic benefits our farmers contribute to Vermont. We need to take into account all of the landscape functions of the farm or forest and how restoring these contributes to the health of the entire bioregion. Forest under management for old growth characteristics can provide a local sustainable supply of forest products while acting as tremendous carbon sinks. Agroforestry practices including silver culture, silver pasture, alley cropping, native species hedgerows, and riparian buffers all enhance soil and water quality. Not only do local organic regenerative farms sequester carbon and restore habitat, they also reduce the overall carbon footprint associated with food production by eliminating chemical inputs, reducing tractor use, and reducing transportation through local distribution. And I'll wrap up here. To face the challenges of abrupt climate change and loss of biodiversity, we need progressive soil health policy reflective of a shift in societal priorities where soil is recognized as basic infrastructure. We need to ensure that those who can produce food, medicine, fuel, fiber, and building materials while regenerating soil are guaranteed a living wage the same way we do for all other essential service providers. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, thank you, Stephen. And just for your knowledge and the listeners, we and the House Committee both have worked quite a bit on ecosystems here this session. And I know the House is sending us a bill dealing with it. And we on the Senate side are going to be voting on a bill maybe in the full Senate that passed through our committee and through appropriations yesterday, giving ecosystems a working group, Ryan Patch's group, I don't know if you've worked with Ryan, but we're going to fund that if it gets through the House at a $250,000 limit this year to move that forward. And with some money to solely hopefully we'll start helping people that want to grow healthy soils a little bit of money to help them move forward. So just pass that on. Bobby, could I just interrupt you just so you know the extension of the payment for ecosystem services working group is in the housekeeping bill and it has already passed the House. It should be on its way to you. Oh, yeah. How much money do you put in that? We did not, we did not put any money in it. That's your job. Well, I guess we're, we already did, I hope, but it'll be your job to keep it in when it gets back to the House. That's okay, we're on it. That's good and you could raise that I'm sure, maybe. So we have Reverend M. Morata with us next. So Reverend, are you with us? I am, thank you. Yes, there you are. Yes. Hi, my name is Reverend Moretti. I'm with Murmuration Farm in Fairfax, Vermont, Franklin County. Thank you so much for inviting us here. I'd like to speak about the limits on farm slaughter. The limits placed on the amount of livestock that can be slaughtered on farm is a barrier actually to my growth as a farm and a new enterprise. I would like to understand the legislature's intent behind the placement of a limit and rationale for the limits applied. I appreciate the decisions are typically made in response to a question or a problem, but I've yet to be able to learn what the original problem had been so I cannot thoughtfully make a proposal on how to increase or remove the limits. I'd like to explain for you how these limits on the slaughter of animals on my farm also create a limit for myself, for my business and for my community. I've had a hobby farm at my homestead since 2003. It began with a large garden and a few chickens and as with many small farms, incrementally grew in both volume and variety. I added pigs to my farm in 2015 and have been breeding and raising them since. My position in population health at Northwestern Medical Center in St. Albans was eliminated at the time public quarantine began a year ago. While quarantining at home with my disabled son, I decided to pivot to make my farm my primary occupation and income instead of attempting to re-enter a potentially unstable corporate situation. Within a few months, I had over 150 animals thriving on my property. I also began to produce dog treats for these drying portions that my customers ordinarily do not take when harvesting an animal. I combine the raw organ meat with fruits or vegetables grown on my land or local farms to create freeze-dried supplemental food that have become more popular than I had expected. I do not send my animals to slaughterhouses. Most of my animals were born on my land and have been cared for and cared about by me from the moment of birth until their moment of death. Not only do I conduct a ritual of gratitude prior to harvest, I also ensure that they are completely at ease and calm when comes time to slaughter. This is important to me and to my customers as this ensures there is minimal adrenaline or stress-related hormone released into their system to alter or taint the meat. Some do not believe that this is a thing but you cannot convince my customers otherwise. Were I to send my animals to a slaughterhouse, I am at risk of losing customers. Being a live product and animals growth is unpredictable. I can influence it but cannot control it. I make a commitment to my customers to harvest when the animal reaches agreed upon market weight. When they do, I call the slaughterer and butcher and make the plan. This ensures I'm delivering the quality products that both my customers and I insist upon. If I need to book an appointment to slaughter an animal that might not even have been born yet, I run the risk of having to slaughter prematurely or having to give up a slot and therefore not having the opportunity to book another. I'm left with an animal that cannot be slaughtered and a customer with an empty freezer. I am not interested in sacrificing product quality for convenience. When my pigs are harvested, I save the tracheas and deliver them to the local EMTs so that they may practice intubations. I don't know about you but if I were in a situation where I needed to be intubated, I would like to have a provider that is skilled, practiced and confident. Having this tool available at no cost is an asset to my community. I have delivered pigs feet to the nursing school so that students may practice sutures. A pig skin is very similar in texture and reaction as human skin and this gives a hands-on learning experience for these practitioners. Having this tool available at no cost is an asset to my community. Where I had to send my animals to a slaughterhouse, I would not be able to provide these tools to providers. I use many of the organ meats to make dog treats. My business is dependent upon being able to use as much of an animal that I raise as possible. Where I had to send an animal to a slaughterhouse, I would only be given the organs deemed safe for human consumption and the rest of this valuable product would be destroyed. My access to literal raw material would be greatly diminished and my ability to meet customer demand crippled. This would put a severe limit on my ability to grow as an independent Vermont-based business. I did not know about these limits until I began doing my research around what I needed to do to become a viable farm. I harvested 28 swine last year. If not for a convenient slide of the calendar, I would have gone over the annual limit and faced repercussions. I intend to harvest at least 25 swine this year and I'm adding goats to my land. I don't have the luxury of that blip in the calendar this year and I'm faced with the choice between turning my back on my customers and community or not complying with the law. The current on-farm slaughter limits are a barrier to my ability to grow and sustain a new farm and related enterprise. I am interested in working with you to develop increased limits that meet the needs of the farmers in the original intent of the legislation. Thank you. Thank you, Reverend. I don't want to take up a lot of your time but on the swine on-farm slaughter is it done by numbers or by weight? I know it's either one or the other. Well, it says by numbers but the form that I report on is by weight so it really doesn't cross over. Just to answer your first question real quick and then we'll move on. When we put that into stature many years ago, we had a very rough time getting it even past and it was that's one reason why the numbers are in there and so low. It was rough. I believe there was a sheep farmer from up your way that wanted this so he could do his own sheep at home. I know we had a hard time getting it past but its time has come to raise that limit. We haven't had to my knowledge one problem with on-farm slaughter and so I think it's time has come to look at that but anyways. Sorry, can I ask a question? You said you had a hard time getting it past meaning allowing for on-farm slaughter or putting a limit on on-farm slaughter? No, to get it just to get it past the ag agency and the head of the meat division back at that point in time was it was really rough getting them to budge on it and you know that has all changed I think to some degree at the present time so Senator Pearson. Maybe you already said this Mr. Chair but the federal government's really uptight about this idea so you know everything we do if I understand is sort of tiptoeing around their concerns and trying to stay in compliance with federal law. Thank you. Yes but anyways you know that's something that you know we actually really should look at that we we on the Senate side did put a half a million dollars into helping to advance our slaughter facilities to so we could increase the output some some slaughter facilities are behind a whole year if you wanted to take an animal to a slaughter facility and so we are beefing that up maybe the house when they get that bill in their committee and the ag committee they could do a little work on on the on-farm slaughter because the issue it would fit right into our our proposal that we're sending over so so anyways we'll we'll keep an eye out and try to help you with that situation um Alan no Jericho now yes hi hi thank you for welcoming us today my name is Jericho Bicknell I'm run crooked sapling farm can you okay last time I had to shut off okay it's kind of a hit and miss I'm gonna turn off my video here I pause okay so I'll start again my name is Jericho Bicknell thank you so much for letting us come and talk to you today um I run crooked sapling farm in Newark Vermont with my husband and our two children Lyra who's six and Amos is two years old um we have a small flock but growing flock of Icelandic sheep that we raise for fleece and for meat and we have about 80 laying hens um which we we sell eggs um and we practice intensive rotational grazing so um in the summer months we every day we're moving animals around about eight eight acres of pasture um really trying to do the best we can for the animals and for our land and soil health um it's very important to us we've also planted um many fruit and nut and shade trees uh throughout the pasture so um none of the fruit trees are bearing yet but in the next few years we should start to get some apples and plums and cherries hopefully fingers crossed it's pretty cold up here but um and um yes so we're just we're trying to um do the best we can for this for the land and for our animals and for ourselves and our community growing um quality fresh nutritious food um this year will be the first year that we're actually um trying to sell lamb so I wanted to speak a little bit about some of the challenges that we have encountered in uh meat processing um today and in hope that it'll encourage it sounds like there's a lot of good support for the on-farm slaughter exemption which is great so encourage continued and increasing those limits um and also any uh further efforts to ease the the meat processing bottleneck um um we have had a lot of interest from our community in buying lamb um from us but but much many people hesitant to commit to a whole animal um so the first thing I looked into was trying to uh do retail and have our animals slaughtered at an inspected facility but quickly found that everywhere is booked up through 2022 um and we are on a waiting list um but in the meantime we still have to have a plan for slaughtering our animals in case we don't get in to the slaughterhouse so um we are planning to do on-farm slaughter and um and but even with that uh the butchers near us are all also incredibly busy and booked the um the custom butchers and so the only date we had to um have a date of august 20th to do our slaughtering which is much earlier than we would normally um that's about one or two months earlier than we would normally slaughter so it means our our carcass weights are going to be lower than than we would hope um so um yeah so that's that's our experience um and I'm so grateful that there is a non-farm slaughter personal use exemption that allows us to even sell any of our meat this year um and I just hope that um that this can continue in the future and also um further efforts to uh like um senator star mentioned increasing the the retail the capacity the slaughterhouse capacity um or other ways of of um easing that that bottleneck in the state um so thank you again um so much yeah well thank you thank you thank you Jericho well we're getting a neck or something um and um hopefully um the half a million dollars we put into the slaughter facility on on the senate side hopefully by this fall it may it may open up some slaughter facilities um to do some advance advanced machinery expansion and and there's also money there to help with uh at vtc to set up a training uh program for meat uh processing um but uh if you had an itinerant slaughterer if you could find one of those folks to come to your farm that would probably get you out of a bind for for this year um but uh good luck to you um and if you know if we can help get hold of caroline or maddie and and um you know that's what we're in mont pillier for is to help help you folks um alan uh rita's director of public and governmental affairs at hanover co-op i see you good morning my my thanks to you um both chairs and members of each committee a quick introduction for those who are vaguely familiar with the hanover co-op food stores hanover is a new hampshire name um but we very much have some strong and deep vermont roots uh we were founded in 1936 we're among the oldest food co-ops in the united states adamant co-op is a few months older than we are um and we're the second largest uh food cooperative in the u.s so that gives us some heft and some muscle but also responsibility and it is the reason that i'm on the call today and i wanted to just give um everyone on the call a little bit but background on our vermont roots but also how we are involved in the local food shed and some serious issues we see so to tick off a few of the fast facts um our vermont locations in order that they were established we've had land in norwich vermont since 1973 and since 77 it's been the home to the norwich farmers market we have a large co-op kitchen it's a production facility in wilder we opened that in 2000 2010 we opened our white river junction grocery store which has just been a fantastic community grocery and uh just seems to improve year after year that's about a 15 000 square foot store and as of early 2019 we opened our second auto service center on route five in norwich and oh finally i'm speaking to you from our administrative offices in white river junction um up um in the area behind the big post office in white river so our payroll of vermont employees is about 5.2 million dollars i only add that to say that you know we're we're bullish on vermont we've as you could tell by those years i ticked off and the growth and the investment this has been a wonderful state to be involved in and especially when it comes to sourcing local and regional food this business spends about 16.5 million dollars within 100 mile radius with small producers farmers specialty food makers cheese makers about two-thirds of that money is spent in vermont vermont is just a vibrant sector of hardworking people that bring great products let's fast forward to this pandemic that we've all dealt with over the years we have made that commitment to local and regional agriculture and it paid off when the pandemic hit because we were already sourcing from local meat suppliers and poultry producers but when the pandemic hit everything changed but when small independent grocers like ours and even though we're an 85 million dollar business we're still small in the big world um we were able to have the muscle to quickly check and and have secondary and third level relationships and that's important when you've got a food shed that's vibrant about 12 years ago we really were suffering from the bottleneck in the meat processing industry so a store like ours is able to refurbish our meat cutting rooms we have full-service butcher shops in our stores so we changed it so we could bring in hanging weight of lamb pork beef and we always cut down from primals grinding everything from whole cuts and so we were able to alleviate some of the bottleneck you know it helps a farmer and other um distributors to help us bring in a hanging weight of something and that helps but this the bottleneck is still so critical and when we think of those small producers out there as as Jericho it just or the it might have been Jericho mentioned um the processing elements you know there's only so much we can do right now in my role I'm working with rural Vermont VTC Vermont sustainable job funds in some very early conversations of how we can help with apprenticeships or help with just supporting the idea of training and adding our voice to this important job um NOFA Vermont is it's just been such a strong partner as has New England Farmers Union and Vital Community so where does this all take us to training and career opportunities as well as the processing plants these are interconnected there's no way around them um you know as I said we're a big store we're able to refurbish a back room but a lot of the smaller food co-ops and the small independent groceries they're not in that position but they would gladly promote and offer more local products from Vermont when it comes to our livestock and poultry farmers so my ask from all of you is actually an offer um I'm in a position to add our voice and my sleeves are rolled up so I would say when it comes to legislation or insights from a retailer perspective I'm here I'm at the table and I look forward to supporting anything we can do to strengthen the food shed whether a product ever comes through our doors or not it's our responsibility to be part of this conversation and I thank you for letting me be part of this one today yeah well thank thank you very much for that for that offer Alan if you could get hold of Pat Moulton at BTC as far as training they're going to be setting that up the training for meat processing and the tour you may be able to you know have have be part of that I'll and thank you for that suggestion I'm actually going to be on a call with Pat tomorrow tomorrow morning so the wheels are rolling and a lot of work to be done so we're here for it and and just for your information tomorrow morning we're going to be hearing about the BTC firm that's in Norwich and that's sort of in trouble with the you know it's it's not a good situation and we're going to be talking about that tomorrow morning so okay something good will come from that and and I hope so and there's a we know of a few other vendors that bring our bring their material to our back door who are also in some very difficult situations yeah next is Heidi copper train copper team Heidi are you with us Senator star we didn't get full confirmation that Heidi was going to be joining us so she may not be here and I don't see her so you can probably move on to the next person. Hello my name is Evan Hoyt and I'm very grateful to be here with you all thanks for the opportunity I'm calling from Huntington Vermont I am part of brushbrook community farm in bakery our farm functions really differently than most so it has unique challenges and interactions with state policy I hope to introduce the project and talk about some specifics of where it interacts with state policy these include current legislation around employment law as well as the on farm slaughter legislation we've been discussing and raw milk production those are a few particular challenges so brushbrook is an experiment in alternative modes of food production we seek to offer reparations to the more than human world and the main way we do that is by building relationship we attempt to build relationship by offering food as a gift so instead of transaction as the atomic unit of transfer gift offers a way to move food or equipment or even labor and money in ways that in our experience has a great capacity to strengthen relationships and allow goods to flow to where they're needed the most so we are a farm and a bakery and we do the work of food production but we do not sell anything for example the soup we make from the bodies of our grass fed cows and local vegetables is offered at no charge after all we receive the beef and the broth at no charge and they were made possible by an abundance of grasses which in turn grew from freely given sunlight and rains so we see our work as farmers as participant in this massive flow of food and energy I recognize that this may seem far fetched or extreme in some ways though we see what we do as doing what humans have done the world over in times before markets were imposed upon cultures and people who celebrate generosity and discourage accumulation a result of our first year of this work is a thriving community of growers and eaters our farm functions in some ways a lot like a regional food hub but entirely based on gift without the challenges or stigmas associated with food shelves nor the cost prohibitiveness of organic farm stands we've been able to distribute measureless bread and soup to our neighbors the community in turn has supported us giving us financial gifts enough to keep the lights on by the wheat that's milled for the bread and pay a few of the farmers a humble stipend we're also able to persist financially by not owning or renting any land just like we glean vegetables from nearby farms we glean unused pastures and greenhouses in Huntington Valley with permissions from the landowners to make use of what's otherwise fallow in many ways Vermont state agricultural policy has enabled us to do the work we love and I'm grateful for each of you for your work and for your role in that in some other ways projects like ours have some unique hurdles to jump for example employment law which is based upon preventing capitalist exploitation is designed to ensure employee wellness but actually prevents us from having the relationship to our working community that we seek the contractual transactional employer employee relationship is not what we're trying to replicate but current law demands that the stipends we use to keep the gift economy running result in that dynamic the opportunity to one day opt out of those requirements in order to maintain that gift-based volunteer relationship would be a huge service to our community secondly on farm slaughter restrictions prevent us from having the relationships with the animals that we feel we owe them the law prohibits farmers from participating in the slaughter despite the farmers lifelong relationship with and care for the animal while a provision for sharing with non-paying guests allow us to share the meat in some capacity restrictions on gifting the goods is a hindrance to us additionally this season we will reach limits for both cow and sheep on farm slaughter and request that those limits be increased in the future so that we can spare the animals the traumas of anonymous placeless deaths this would also allow us to provide local meat without competing for slaughterhouse time pre-scheduling slaughters as has been discussed and without passing those associated costs on to our community when these are services we can lastly and briefly raw milk restrictions prevent us from sharing the work and gifts of our heifers in the way that we would like tedious policy requiring customer contact record keeping prevents gifts from flowing outward in a way that we feel would enable equitability and food access which is what we're all about those are a few of the specific policy-related barriers our community faces more generally we've observed that a lot of legislation is written with the assumption of markets and business as the underlying model this can make interpreting the law for our projects and similar projects very difficult I hope the wording and content of the law can one day better support gift-based farms and that our project can demonstrate that non-market food production is a viable route for Vermont farmers and eaters though some argue for the competition and complex efficiency that markets lead to markets also require most producers to make financial profitability their primary goal firmly above even the care of the land the wellness of their eaters and the closeness of their community from the perspective of eaters markets enable quick transactional relationships with food producers or just distributors and lead to a distance between themselves and the placing people that bring their food into being lastly markets determine who has access to the food that the land and life on earth is producing it does this in a system that disadvantages people and dozens of clear and well-demonstrated ways that we know about so for these reasons and more non-market food systems are an emerging response to the troubling times we're in it's my hope that the many folks who are willing and able to do the hard work of food production for their community is reported by the state in the future even and especially if their efforts exist outside of the pervasive market context that we're accustomed to thank you for listening for the time and for your consideration thank you evan we we did hear testimony this morning from the the house i don't know whether still on or not they did take up a bill that altered the raw milk issue to some extent and i don't know if if that movement would help in the earth particular case or not but they did the house committee on ag has worked on on the raw milk issue trying to make it easier to to i guess sell sell it or to take it to a neighbor's tsa to dispose of it to their customers or people so you might want to check with the health committee on that if it needs more tweaking uh get hold of us uh because the bill's going to be in our committee next um so thanks for being um with us this morning uh jane um is it um lansing uh jane lonza lonza yes jane lonza that's correct oh welcome thank you for listening and for the opportunity to speak here today my name is jane lonza i run a family farm with my husband ben and our two young children called family tree in children springs vermont i represent our family and other rural smart farmers like ourselves throughout the state we are requesting reformations act 164 such that the adult use cannabis market in vermont includes a farm to consumer license and participation options like cultivation resale delivery on site consumption perhaps outside of whether a town opts in or not our particular town shelled in springs felt legalization was too confusing to pursue this year and shut down our repeated requests to opt in or include this on the ballot we considered collecting signatures to petition a special meeting to push reconsideration but it felt wrong during the pandemic to go door to door on a personal level we're concerned we may be left behind neighboring towns we don't have the ability as an established physical farm to pick up and relocate like a larger outside company might based on which town chooses to opt in or not on a community level we're concerned our town could be left behind other towns and while this inequitable distribution of potential opportunity in the craft market is potentially hurting the individual in the town and more so impedes our progress as a state with respect to the rest of the states in the nation participating in a craft market the very nature of vermont craft business is that it is open and inclusive and to hinder participation from all regions and all of our mentors hurts the growth of this industry at large we're internationally celebrated for our maple our cheese our beer and hopefully soon for our cannabis what makes vermont special is the diverse number of local craft contributors to these agricultural products the land people and spirit of this place are unique and are unparalleled why not establish a thriving craft legal market here embracing the spirit and place of these people there are current and budding pun intended cannabis companies like mine throughout the state that are already committed to regenerative agriculture and sustainability working closely with the agency of agriculture for compliance and safety we are one of many successful craft farm to store hemp product companies in vermont who have already adapted to changing state and federal requirements and gone above and beyond for transparency with our lab testing and safe packaging together grassroots companies like mine have already started to build a cannabis market here in vermont that is putting our cbd quality above many other qualities from other states nationwide nonetheless my company family tree has been denied bank loans grants and many divis business development programs as were hemp farmers and this isn't considered a specialty crop in vermont why deny small farms and minorities equal opportunity to participate in the cannabis market because our town won't opt in with all of these parties involved as is proven here with cbd cbd we could have a thriving craft community in vermont and become even more so a huge tourist destination the position taken through limiting participation to opt in towns makes exclusive opportunities and puts one farm at a better advantage than another having spent ample time in legal markets out west we've come to understand the integrative benefit that a legal adult use industry can have on local economies our organic hemp grows hillside with water fed by sheldon springs and the late 1800s sheldon vermont was the leading water resort of united states based on the healing minerals in the water contained here right now sheldon vermont does not have a single tourist destination our vision inspired by the success of the craft beer industry in vermont is to revive agritourism and to connect people to the land we love what we do we are scientists we are farmers we grow organic from soil to oil we handcraft everything as a labor of love our uniqueness is from our practice our history in our land for years my husband and I each have wanted to work in cannabis but not leave vermont our home state our passion our goal is the opposite it is to bring people to vermont to stimulate agritourism and to restore young people's relationships with the land we have gone out west to learn a lot in legal markets but we have not left vermont and we are patiently waiting for vermont to catch up we launched our cbd product line during covid a global pandemic not realizing that would be the case and despite the downturn in the economies throughout the world and locally our hemp farm is profitable and it's growing fast my husband and I have left behind our career and engineering and wellness pursue our dream of buying our family farm and being good stewards of the land for our children we do not want to return to jobs we're forced to commute out of rural vermont put our children in daycare with limited options and give up on the stream of caring for our family farm because there's no opportunity for us to participate in the legal cannabis market where in other places it shows that cbd just gets left behind thc we would love to see direct avenues for small businesses with quality processes and products to succeed in the legal cannabis industry we are requesting that the vermont adult use market include a direct farm to consume consumer license with consideration for farms reselling their crop perhaps delivering or on-site consumption small vermont farms and cbd companies deserve participation outside of whether their town hops in or not thank you for your consideration and thank you for listening yeah uh thank you jane um i'll call on our vice chair of senate ag senator pierce maybe you can give a little overview of where we've been uh chris yeah i well just just one point i mean i agree with a lot of a lot of what jane's saying not all of it but just to make sure it's clear the town's opting in first of all the senate that was not our position we didn't want that at all it was part of the compromise with the governor and in the house but um the only uh piece of the possession stream in the cannabis world that requires an affirmative town vote is having a store so if you want to cultivate if you want to process you have to get a permit but you don't have any there's no local authority to stop that from happening so uh just just want to make sure that that's clear um i appreciate you responding i have been told the latest is that it is still up for debate as far as cultivation and wholesale go and that that might also be required often no not at all the law is real clear that it's just for the stores uh we we were trying to get a compromise that said towns could opt out but we wouldn't know how to bill if we did that so um anyway no it's just for stores just for retail and uh so so there is an opportunity um you know once that's once we're a little further along to to have a processor to have a grow facility whatever thank you for clarifying that so farmers have a direct route to participate in the market as is regardless of the retail license correct thank you yeah you just got to build a little can they sell could they have a an addition on their house as a stores have to be a separate building chris uh i don't think well you'd have to get the town to agree to sell you know to let you sell i don't know that we have looked at the detail of what building you'd have um and you could do that on a farm but you'd have to get a a permit just like you would in the downtown wanooski or whatever so what would you do if you can grow up but not sell it you would sell it to a processor or you know or to the retail you know you'd have to establish a connection to a retail seller uh thank thank you jane and thanks chris for uh bringing that up um we have uh sam romburg next sam with us hi i'm right here there you are yeah uh thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to speak with you all today i know that the pressures of everything going on in the world in vermont today are pulling all of us in a tremendous number of different directions so i truly appreciate the time that you were sharing with me and for giving me the opportunity to explain to you why cultivating cannabis is definitely farming and why the industry needs to be inclusive and accessible my farm mountain fire farm is located in danville vermont we are a small but growing farm at our farm the priority is on soil health we currently have about an acre of no-till and regenerative style beds used on a variety of vegetable and fruit crops and we also raise a growing number of pigs and chickens who we utilize to help enhance the quality of our soil we also make a fair bit of maple syrup without reverse osmosis and using what is the fuel so we try to keep things as handmade as possible and uh looking out the window today i think i'm going to have a little bit of work to do this afternoon uh i'm here today as a resident a taxpayer a neighbor and a farmer i'm going to be blunt cannabis is a plant it grows in soil with sunlight and water but unlike every other plant there are those who are attempting to regulate it as if it weren't a plant many people and organizations are proposing advocating for and attempting to enact laws that won't allow this plant to be cultivated outdoors by the very same farmers who cultivate all the other plants that we consume in our lives and for a lack of a more eloquent eloquent way to phrase it it just isn't right as a farmer i firmly believe that the act of cultivating cannabis outdoors and under the sun is farming and i believe that any and all farmers should be able to grow this cash crop if they so choose with proper regulation and it is that simple as a taxpayer resident and neighbor it is because i believe that starting from scratch is inefficient ineffective and costly and that most of the issues surrounding cannabis cultivation such as product safety water quality public health and the use of potentially hazardous chemicals are already issues that are being addressed by our absolutely outstanding department of agriculture so i firmly believe that we should allow the same organization that is already doing a phenomenal job ensuring the safety of our food supply chain and the safety of those who work within the chain to have as much input as possible regarding the regulation of cannabis to me it just makes sense i'm not here today to lecture you or attempt to educate any of you about the failures of prohibition but the evidence that prohibition has failed surrounds us here in vermont where it is nearly impossible to go anywhere without being reminded about our incredible craft brewing industry it is promoted as a tourist draw it is recognized as an industry that has successfully created jobs and it is an industry that vermont can be proud of i firmly believe that it is high time for vermont's cannabis industry to become another avenue of great pride and commercial success for vermont so long as it is regulated in a manner that allows for inclusive participation two of the factors that drive the success of the craft brewing industry in vermont are accessibility and innovation as far as accessibility goes any vermontur who has the drive determination and the ability to navigate the licensing process is able to legally own and operate a brewery and sell their product to the public innovation does not exist without accessibility and industries do not succeed over the long term without innovation i firmly believe that to have a flourishing cannabis industry in vermont we must recognize that the outdoor cultivation of cannabis is farming and just as importantly the industry needs to remain accessible to anybody who would like to partake in it i thank you all very much for sharing your time with me today and the last thing i would like to add is an offer that i've made to many senators and representatives that nobody has taken me up on which is that if anybody has any questions about cultivation drying processing or the products that are created with dried cannabis i am more than happy to take some time and give you a lesson on what all it entails thank you very much and i really appreciate you all giving me this opportunity today well thank thank you very much sam i i don't know where to go with with what you said other than i believe we're we're trying to move in that direction it's um it's uh like pushing water uphill i guess uh the ag committees haven't really been active players in in a lot of the discussion and maybe in the future you know we will have to take a a more active active role but anyways thanks sam for your comments um we have a buster caswell who's an activist working on farm labor housing and welcome buster thunder and everyone else thank you for your time um everyone getting together and having discussions on various topics agriculture is very important so thanks to kudos to rural vermont and kudos to the agriculture community for listening to our agriculture community um that being said um i want to comment on the last gentleman um i happen to know a little bit that hemp is a plant when my grandfather was alive he talked about that plant and he had a book of agriculture my grandfather was a horticulturalist and he worked at crossings greenhouse so uh hemp is very much a valuable part of agriculture and should continue to be in the state of vermont so anyways my main subject has been for the last few years has been the advocacy and folks learning opportunities that are available and should be considered throughout the state um some of these opportunities i talked about in three main areas one of them is rehabilitation rebuilding and upgrading present on the farm farms the other one is the opportunities for farmers to build homes create homes and opportunities on their farm and the third opportunities would be for building farms for farm workers in our agricultural areas which can be successful and should be utilized in many many ways and why is this important to agriculture very much so i read a little bit of the um great work the ag department work in there and parts of that report there's priority strategies and then those priority strategies it talks about the collaboration between housing organizations and leaders and other organizations to come together utilizing present resources and having the conversation and why is this important to world vermont let me read from you just a little bit and this can be found on the vermont affordable housing coalition's website okay we all know our agricultural workforce has many challenges and it needs to grow and part of the reason is vermont is very rural and in that website it says vermont has the second largest affordability gap for renters of any state in the nation so that's that's out of 50 states and vermont being rural that gap affects our agricultural communities and we need to look at those challenges and how we can address both the combination of growing our agriculture and at the same time challenge this affordability gap and farm workers overall make low income and that varies widely among every agriculture whether you're talking about the folks out in the field working the soils or you're talking about processors and the cheese plants and so on and so forth so that's why we need to collaborate together possibly come up with a committee one or two to address the needs and the challenges so we can continue to grow our agriculture communities and I hope this discussion moves us forward because it relates to agriculture and it relates to housing the affordable ability gap is challenging so as unique as this challenge is it's not impossible and we need to connect the missing link between working together with the housing community and working on the affordability gap working in our rural communities and how it works and is connected to agriculture and I'll leave that discussion to all you folks because you guys are the true leaders and everyone has a voice in this and my suggestion is that just maybe for a committee in the future and thank you all for your time and leadership thank you buster and from our last conversation that we had I think I sent you a little email we had been working with BHCB and their director has agreed to help farmers receive grants and and money toward improving farm labor housing on the farms and and so we'll we'll stay on that and hopefully you know we'll see some some action there um cat buxton um are you with us cat vermont healthy soils there you are yes hello senator star thank you so much to all of you for um being here uh and thanks to rural vermont and nofa vermont for putting this event together um I'm honestly I'm here mostly just to listen but since I've been given the opportunity I would like to um promote as as best I can for you to work on legislation that promotes regenerative ecosystems I know there's a lot of discussion about what that word regenerative means um and how we can build our soil infrastructure to support the the life that we all depend on water quality infrastructure flooding etc and I suppose what I would I really like to know and and I wonder if the legislature is working on this at all to understand what are the infrastructure damage costs associated with ongoing rainstorms uh and especially in terms of soil loss and how could we invest those what I assume are actually billions of dollars worth of um damage costs how could we invest that into the hands that manage our land to turn it into a soil sponge to support all of the services uh that we need from our ecosystems again thank you so much for providing this time and listening to my short request yeah well thank you for being with us cat I think if you've been on this morning uh throughout this uh hour so uh we have we did uh put uh 250 000 into Ryan Patch's Ego Systems Program which is you know they've been working at this for a while over there but with no funding and uh that that did pass through our senate appropriations committee and I know the house has worked on ecosystems uh as far as knowing the cost of what it actually has cost us in soil loss with the heavy rains hopefully you know healthier soils better soils more grass over soils will help prevent that in the future and so we're we are working on issues to try to keep our planet a better place to live and a healthier place to live and we'll you know we'll keep at it and with the help of you know folks like yourself and others on the call it it works you know we can we can get a little money and and move forward so thank all of you for your hard work um may I ask a follow-up question uh yeah as long as it's not too hard okay I think it is pretty hard um sorry for that um I will let you know that I am um I do have a seat on the payment for ecosystem services and soil health working group um and I'm delighted that the Vermont ecosystem stewardship program is getting some funding I think that must be what you're talking about that that's wonderful um I I'm really interested in connecting the economic impacts with ecological treatment and I've yet to see um the cost of these storms and I just wonder is there an agency um that is uh responsible for and is it something is it a question we even ask how much do these storms cost us and can we project that future damage uh and think about savings I I would think that with all the people that that we have at ag working on water quality and soil loss and and ANR I would think they must have somebody or a group of people that could come up with with some estimate on that and in your you know if your priority ecosystem's working group you might as a group might be able to request that um from the agency a bag and and get something moving forward at that level as well as us at the you know at the state level so no it would be good to have those numbers uh Janice Rinkley Janice let us know she ended up not being able to make it so we can go to Suzanne and Suzanne long Suzanne has computer problems and can't get online either I'm glad it's not us chasing people away I'm here I'm here I'm here I just have to get on yep here you are you made it I did and the phone's ringing and I don't know okay well welcome um yeah internet issues there's another topic huh yeah you're the only one that you ever had a problem with um thank you very much for giving me this opportunity um my name is Suzanne long uh and I um my husband and I run Luna blue farm I noticed in Alan's talk when he was on line there he had an old picture of Tim and I on his desk from the co-op there there was a little blast from the past um Tim and I have been farming um organically since uh 1989 we started in New Hampshire sorry to say no it's fine and then I think we moved to Vermont in 91 we're a diversified farm with vegetables and livestock our daughter um is taking over our livestock operation um so that whole issue of farm succession and uh and land access and affordability is also key on our mind um let's see um when we moved to South Royalton um you know we've we've sort of built this farm from the ground up we didn't have a lot of outside resources we've really depended on the income from the farm to build this farm and it's taken us uh 30 some years to finally um be able to breathe a little um and when we moved to South Royalton um we had a pretty strong connection with all the dairy farms here um I think I was a relief milker for most of them including David Ainsworth um Bob Hull the the Spalding's Rob Howe um and I say that just because um it's so easy for us to think of all the different agricultural enterprises as in their own little silos but in fact you know we're really dependent on each other um you know we we're vegetable growers um you know that's a big part of our income but we also raise livestock so we do depend on you know our neighbors um for hay for example um I don't know if they really depended on me to do relief milking but but I bet they do um but it was one way I could contribute back um um and I I just wanted to touch on some of the um issues that are uh sort of being addressed by the House and Senate currently and maybe also with the picture of that interconnectedness of farms and how um the vibrancy of other farms can affect your farm um and I think the other thing is resilience um we are all more resilient if we have more farm neighbors uh you know there's a lot of infrastructure things and um supply chain issues um that start to fall apart if you don't have a vibrant agricultural community um I wanted to talk a little bit about the raw milk bill and um actually also bring up the Norwich Farm issue a little um and then touch on the adequate housing bill and the um the bill that is working with food in our schools um and all of these things do touch on resilience for our farms and for food security um I think with COVID we've really um it's sort of brought up to us um the fragility of our food systems and then also how our food systems are set up and and um when things break down a little bit what kind of effect it can have on our farms um so I think um Vermont as Vermont thinks of new and innovative models I think that will start to really build um the success and resilience of our farms um so I see that the the raw milk uh and I want to say also you know food safety I think is a very important um a very important thing and I think farmers really recognize that we know that if there's an issue with food safety it's going to affect all of us so and I think it is also very important to recognize the great asset we have with our Vermont Extension program they do an amazing job helping farmers make sure they're meeting those food safety standards and I think you know when when they ask for money um give it to them because they do a tremendous job um and when we're thinking about bills that um deal with raw milk and on farm slaughter I know that food safety is a big concern but farmers are aware of that and linked with the work that UVM Extension does to make sure the training is there for safe handling of food I think Vermont is is in a great position um um just now just to the details of um the raw milk bill that's now just come across to the senate um I think that bill will be a great way for those dairies the tier two dairies to be able to expand their markets by being able to sell their milk to csa farms and farm stands it so economically it's an economic boom to those farms that have already taken those expensive steps to be that level of uh food safety and handling of their milk to be able to recoup some of that by being able to expand their markets and it will add to csa farms and farm stands ability to provide product that is wanted in the community in a safe way it's a I think the way the as I understand the way the bill is written it's a good way it's a good next step um Vermont has been cautious in their in their allowing of raw food raw milk but I think we've seen that we haven't had some issues and so I think we're ready for that next expansion it would help our farm you know we we have people ask us about raw milk and it they would be delighted to be able to get raw milk from us at our csa um now I'll jump quick to the Norwich farm issue and the vtc I know it's a really complicated issue um there's a lot of crazy history there it sounds like I do want to say though that the Norwich Creamery the Norwich farm is another innovative model that when we think about dairy in Vermont and dairy surviving in Vermont the Norwich Creamery has been a great model Chris and Laura have done an amazing job with that little creamery um and it also shows you know another model of resilience when COVID hit they were they were they had their little farms stand that um they were able to take our produce in that in that springtime when we our greenhouses were flooded with spinach and we needed we couldn't do the farmers markets we had another pretty much a direct market through them so this is just an example of how you know these smaller farms can pivot and they can help other farms pivot um you know so anyway but and I think um the issue with vtc is complicated I think um unfortunately um if vtc got that was gifted that land and they are not willing to work with uh Laura and Chris who they brought to that place with a five-year contract um and Laura and Chris have built that uh business and they are trying to work with vtc to be able to buy that infrastructure that the state and the federal government has put lots of money in building up you know through grants that's our taxpayer dollars we've built up this great little infrastructure in Norwich Vermont and as I understand it vtc just wants to be able to sell that at bit at at market prices for development tear down that structure and and just sell it for whatever they can get for it it doesn't make any sense we've already spent a lot of money we've already invested in that facility it gives me pause when I hear that now they want to do a on-farm slot or a slaughtering program what what's gonna happen anyway I mean vtc we love vtc so I'm really conflicted we want we want vtc to survive but I really don't know what's happening here in terms of vtc as a training place for agriculture that has been not supporting an entity so I think it's it's a complicated issue but I think as a local farmer knowing what this creamery has done to enrich the local food economy in the upper valley it just doesn't make any sense to tear it down so there I believe that and I just want to quick a couple few things was I know that there's legislation to promote school lunch programs support school lunch programs and one of the that part is to fund schools to be able to buy from local farms and I know we've done that in the past maybe I don't know eight years ago there was some pretty good funding for schools to be able to buy from local farms and that really enabled us and other local farms to um do a lot more with schools on a regular basis a lot of farms support the schools and they want to help schools have good food for the kids and they end up donating um food and that works sort of but it's not it's not always what the school needs when the school needs it so I think you know if we could figure out a way to um enable schools to more easily purchase food locally that will help farms it will help schools and that whole connection with schools and farms I've been involved with farm to school forever that's the problem I've been farming too long I have too many feet in different things um and then just another quick uh thing is that that I don't know what the bill is but I know there's a there's a talk about adequate livestock housing and I think we want to make sure that the language is clear or there's some clarification that that um regulation for adequate livestock housing does not hinder intensive rotational grazing um that's something my daughter is doing it's it's that's good for the land good for the health of the animals but if the animals are needing to be coming back to a barn that um does not that does not always work for the kind of grazing that we're doing to build the soils back to cat and um you know those are those are some of the things that are really uh building soils sequestering carbon and all those great things that we want to be doing I could talk about many other things but I'm not going to someday when it's slow Jesse we'll call you and you keep us uh filled in um but thank thank you very much um for all that you you've given us um and we uh you know as far as the Norwich Farm uh we just heard about what was transpiring there date maybe day before yesterday and as I said earlier we've got the uh president of vtc coming in tomorrow as well as somebody from the upper valley land trust and somebody from the citizens group I hope that's trying to save that but I I I certainly agree with your opinion on on that farms and and what's there um yeah we lose enough farms already without uh an institution change chasing them out and so anyways we're we're on to that now universal meals program got voted out of our committee senate education committee and it'll be an approach I I believe this afternoon and hopefully we'll move that forward there is a provision in there for uh schools to buy from local farmers and um in so anyways we're doing that and we gotta run because um we've got another meeting at 12 30 and we still got Jesse uh is Jesse with us I am good morning can you hear me uh yes good morning um thank you for hearing me this morning uh my name is Jesse Lucas I own a farm in charlotte brunt we have an organic 5.5 acre usda certified organic and real organic certified farm is operated by myself and my brother and a dear friend of mine we produce high quality organic vegetables greens and cannabis on our farm we have a 13 000 square foot dutch van lo greenhouse um we have a ornwa tunnel and we're adding more tunnels this year through the nrcs um why we got into farming we wanted to be able to support our families contribute to our communities promote a healthier lifestyle by providing local fresh organic produce um we saw an opportunity with this property that we purchased three years ago and we believed with this greenhouse we could sort of have a future in horticulture uh especially with climate change there is a need in agriculture for younger generations to adopt technology to improve production reduce costs and ultimately increase profitability this is the only way to make farming a viable career choice to ensure farm success and feasibility we strongly believe in strict organic practices building living soils crop rotation companion planting cover cropping and no-till practices we continue to farm because we enjoy the hard work and the daily problem solving the autonomy the satisfaction of growing consuming our own food and actually contributing to something meaningful to us in society we aim to be at the forefront of contributing to research sharing our data our knowledge and our journey and we hope to inspire others to begin farming we want to share our experiences and collaborate and share that around all this around us elevate as we continue to grow our farm the reason I would like to be able to take this opportunity today and thank rural Vermont NOFA and all of you and to speak sort of um on act 164 which is pertaining to um cultivation and the sort of rec market that we're going to see my concerns are sort of allowing cultivation on land zone for agricultural use the cultivation of cannabis is fundamentally an agricultural activity as we've heard earlier today act 164 includes too many arbitrary regulations and places too many barriers to entry onto local farms that prevent them from fairly participating in the emerging legal market we would like to see an allowance of outdoor production on land the use of infrastructure and agricultural easements zoned for agricultural use in the current use at any scale of outdoor production um outdoor cultivation of cannabis and infrastructure directly related to on-site outdoor cultivation as with other agricultural cultivation association associated infrastructure shall not be regulated under vsa 24 chapter 117 local zoning land use regs we would also like to see um the eligibility to apply for grants technical assistance education agricultural programs and benefits to include cultivation licenses that allow breeding and sale of seed and plant starts other sort of points are around sort of craft licensing as we've ever heard also today a primary objective of 164 attention transition Vermont's as we know elicit businesses around cannabis into a legal marketplace and that require a fair and equitable license program under the new law only state registered dispensaries have their licenses completely defined allowing them to get out rowing as this new law goes into effect however licenses for Vermonters are not completely defined and that's a barrier to entry for small businesses as a result we would like to see an entire craft licensing system and vertically integrated small farm license for act 164 that does not require the approval of cannabis control board and is offering an ongoing and along the basis and a cost amenable to Vermonters craft licenses include a cultivation retail processor wholesaler delivery license and more the craft license application should be differentiated from non-craft license applications by fewer requirements a less honorous practice and a more affordable cost which would be fixed in the price there should be no limitations on the number of past license holders in the state we would include the differentiated caps on production and sales of license indoor mixed light and outdoor scale approximately a one to two to four ratio door mixed light and outdoor tier permitted systems the only requirement that we already know about is the background check craft license tiers can sell products from service only craft cultivators craft license towards the only license per capita already have license would be restricted in the opt-in clause craft licenses will only be able to transact other craft license holders craft retailers would only be able to resell products by craft cultivators and craft processors craft processors will only be able to process for craft cultivators and wholesale craft retailers we are basically trying to create a equal opportunity in this emerging marketplace which we do believe falls under and thank you for sharing today well thank thank you very much jesse um and um you know we'll we'll deal with that as it comes up i guess i'm in the senate and uh we'll move on to maddie if you've got some closing remarks maddie i hate the russia but we've got to be on the senate floor in just a few minutes no absolutely thank you for letting us go a little bit over our time and i don't have any of my own testimony to share i just want to say thank you so much to all the members of both committees for having us for hearing from so many diverse farmers food producers um and growers today about such a breadth of um of issues and we're grateful to you for all the work that you're doing this session and just please you know consider us a resource as you have been um to reach out on any of the issues that we're touched on today we're happy to connect you with any of the folks that testified here today and other folks who may be able to provide you with some expertise on issues that you're considering so um just thank you so much again yeah well thank you maddie thank you um and uh for you know helping to set this all up i know it's a lot of work when you do something like this and and we certainly appreciate that um and so on behalf of both the house and the senate um i'd like to thank all the folks that you brought in today uh certainly appreciate the diverse group and and the good testimony that they all gave um uh so uh with that uh if any of your folks y'all contact you with issues uh you know feel free uh to contact contact us anytime uh which you know you can do and uh we'll we'll deal with it so thank you committee members from my house uh and my fellow senators and uh on our side we'll see you in a few minutes at the next meeting